The truth about NA admixture in Iberia

[Nassbean]

I make this thread in answer to some of the most ridiculous arguments I've seen like these ones :



Iberomaurisian does not mean North African at all. Less still modern North African.
Haha, yeah, gixajo is the only objective Iberian member... because he does not call you brown to your face, even if he thinks it, and because does not deny your crazy theories :rolleyes: please...
Lol at your tons of studies where you try to pass as our ancestors to people living in the peninsula with th haplogroup j or e.
Not even your loved scientifics can answer why north spaniards score more NA (whatever means) than the rest of the spaniards... But you again and again with your ocurrences about al andalus...



This is my last reply in this thread since it is obvious that you as moor have an agenda to try to portrait us Spaniards as something related to you. By the way, the picture that represents a "moor" in your profile in reality it is just a dark Spaniard that changed religion to islam. He looks like a dark a Spaniard, not a pure bereber.

1º. Can you get the idea that the scientific paper that you use is OLD and I can also show you dozens of other papers where it states that the % of "north-african" in Spain is equivalent to that of Italy, Balkans or other parts of Europe? Can you get the idea that "north-african" does not necesarily means "bereber" or anything related to muslims or it is not even "north-african" per se but just common ancient caucasoid blood?? Who gave the label to those genes as "north-african"?? Maybe the ones that labeled those genes as north-african labeled them 10 years ago (prehistoric in genetics) or maybe he is just mistaking common ancestry with descendants of. For example, in 23andme 2-3 years ago I had like 0.3 "North-African". Now I have 0.00%. They probably have realised that the old "north-african" label was stupid and that the "north-african" label only means: 100% caucasoid blood, aka white.

2º Do you realize that if the person that did that scientific paper with those maps extended the paper to France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland or the Balkans, they will also get "0-1-2% ""North-african""? But, hey, they just used Spain to tell if we had "north-african" when in reality is just pure ancient caucasoid blood (as you may know north-africans are part caucasoid, and that is where the relationship comes). Nothing about anything not white, not caucasoid. The components does not make us less European or less white. A different matter would be if we had 5% uralid, which is obviously a non-European characteristic. So, can you get the idea that the person that did (in prehistoric genetic times) that paper could have done the same paper (with those colourful maps) and in most of Europe it will be colored as "north-african" also. So, how did the north-africans reached most of Europe in ancient times?? That will show you that it is just a matter of labels. It is just common pure caucasoid blood shared by all caucasoid populations, like when many European get Red-Sea or SouthAsian. Pure caucasoid blood. It does not mean that people from South-Asia, Jordania or Morocco emmigrated to Europe and mixed. No. It means common basal ancient blood. Nothing else. I can picture many maps and put nice colours to pursue my idea of a label.

3. Did you know that most north-africans score 10-20% Iberian?? What does this mean according to you?? Does it means that in ancient times millions of Iberians (funny since we had a 2 million population 2000 years ago) went and lived in all of Northafrica??? No. It means that someone in the XXI century labeled some DNA segments as "Iberian" or "North-African" but it does not speak of mixing but a common ancestry (which in all caucasoids have a common base, yes, even people from Germany). The more variability exist in a population the less probability that they maintain an ancient component. That is why in the rest of Europe they get a 0.5-0.9% of north-africa" and that is why in Galicia (a place where there were zero northafrican invasions ever) scores a 4% (because Galicians in Spain are the most endogamic population). Can you imagine how retard would be those ""north-africans" that went to live to the corner of NW Spain instead of living in Cadiz (close to North-Africa)?? How is it possible that people in Cadiz (15 kms away from Northafrica) score less "north-african" than people in Galicia (NW Spain, 1000 kms away from north-africa)?? Were they retarded??

Period.



Reality :



Both the dates and the origin of the gene-flow from the North African Mediterranean coast suggest a genetic impact of the Arab expansion in the Iberian Peninsula. The northwest of the Iberian Peninsula shows our oldest estimated date of North African admixture and is consistent with a single pulse of admixture around the time of the early arrival and conquest of Iberia by the Arabs. By contrast, our results suggest that the south of the Iberian Peninsula experienced more recent admixture and perhaps continuous gene-flow. In this case, the admixture is dated to the last periods of the Arab rule in the Peninsula in the second half of the fourteenth century. In 1212, the Christian Kingdoms became allies in the Battle of Navas de Tolosa and conquered all southern territories except the Nasrid Kingdom of Granada, which was conquered at the end of the fifteenth century. The inferred continuous gene-flow suggests that contact between the Arab and southern Iberian populations was not limited to that time period, and the estimated dates represent an upper bound on centuries of admixture (figure 4; electronic supplementary material, figures S5 and S6). Collectively, we can identify at least two different gene-flow events in the Iberian Peninsula for which the inferred dates correlate with Arab rule in the territory: an early concentrated event in the northwest of the Peninsula, and a continuous and more recent event in the south. Moreover, the North African populations that settled in the Peninsula during the Arab conquest may have had different origins (both in time and in geography), which could be indicative of different migration waves (electronic supplementary material, table S3).

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2019.0471?fbclid=IwAR2XLvnzJL8twaxBVKNMun3uF4 H-eHRKXJbPhQni7IKJFWHKDl2oRhM1E28&#d3e750



We have shown that recent North African ancestry is highest in southwestern Europe and decreases in northern latitudes, with a sharp difference between the Iberian Peninsula and France, where Basques are less influenced by North Africa (as suggested in ref. 48). Our estimates of shared ancestry are much higher than previously reported (up to 20% of the European individuals’ genomes). This increase in inferred African ancestry in Europe is due to our inclusion of seven North African, rather than Sub-Saharan African populations. Specifically, elevated shared African ancestry in Iberia and the Canary Islands can be traced to populations in the North African Maghreb such as Moroccans, Western Saharans, and the Tunisian Berbers. Our results, based on both allele frequencies and long shared haplotypes, support the hypothesis that recent migrations from North Africa contributed substantially to the higher genetic diversity in southwestern Europe. Previous Y chromosome data have highlighted examples of male-biased gene flow from Africa to Europe, such as the eastern African slave ancestry in Yorkshire, England (49) and the legacy of Moors in Iberia (26). Here we show that gene flow from Africa to Europe is not merely reflected on the Y chromosome but corresponds to a much broader effect.



Southern European populations have a high proportion (5–35%) of joint Near Eastern | North African ancestry assigned at k = 4. However, identification of distinct Near Eastern and North African ancestries in k ≥ 5 differentiates southeastern from southwestern Europe. Southwestern European populations average between 4% and 20% of their genomes assigned to a North African ancestral cluster (SI Appendix, Fig. S3), whereas this value does not exceed 2% in southeastern European populations.


A gradient of shared IBD segments is observed from southern to northern Europe (based on WEA; Fig. 2 and SI Appendix, Table S3). This sharing is highest in the Iberian Peninsula for both North Africa and Sub-Saharan African IBD segments. Interestingly, the Basques are an exception to this pattern because they show similar levels of sharing to other European populations, but inhabit the Iberian Peninsula. Additionally, IBD sharing between North Africa and Europe is nearly an order of magnitude higher than that between Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe, of which a total of 30% of its IBD segments are also shared between North Africa and Europe. Interestingly, these segments represent only 2% of the bulk of IBD segments shared between North Africa and Europe, a proportion similar to that


"we are closed because of shared ancestry filthy brown moro" :


n alternative model is that the patterns of allele sharing among North Africans and Europeans are actually due to shared ancestry among Southern Europeans and the Near East. Whereas migration(s) from the Near East have likely had an effect on genetic diversity between southern and northern Europe, they do not appear to explain the gradients of African ancestry in Europe. We detect low levels of IBD and allele sharing between the Near East and the majority of the European continent. Both IBD and allele sharing with the Near East appear elevated in southeastern Europe (e.g., Italy, Yugoslavia, and Cyprus). It is possible that these patterns reflect more ancient migrations, perhaps dating back to the Neolithic, which resulted in a low level of short Near Eastern haplotypes across much of Europe. A model of gene flow from the Near East into both Europe and North Africa, such as a strong demic wave during the Neolithic, could result in shared haplotypes between Europe and North Africa. However, the haplotype sharing we observe between Europe and the Near East follows a southeast to southwest gradient, whereas sharing between Europe and the Maghreb follows the opposite pattern (Fig. 2); this suggests that gene flow from the Near East cannot account for the sharing with North Africa.


Whereas inferred IBD sharing does not indicate directionality, the North African samples that have highest IBD sharing with Iberian populations also tend to have the lowest proportion of the European cluster in ADMIXTURE (Fig. 1), e.g., Saharawi, Tunisian Berbers, and South Moroccans. For example, the Andalucians share many IBD segments with the Tunisians (Fig. 3), who present extremely minimal levels of European ancestry. This suggests that gene flow occurred from Africa to Europe rather than the other way around.

https://i.imgur.com/lTlwHWr.png
https://i.imgur.com/jBOwxuF.png

source : https://www.pnas.org/content/110/29/11791

proportion of berber haplogroups :

https://i.imgur.com/kHbNS6k.jpg

based on this study : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524485/



Let's applaud !

https://i.imgur.com/EczuSzf.jpg

[TheMaestro]

I would need 5 fast beers to start reading this thread.

[Nassbean]

I would need 5 fast beers to start reading this thread.

it's an essential thread you can't miss it

[Luso]

https://media.giphy.com/media/UlqLDtI8Qc0j6/giphy.gif

[samario]

There's something non-Berber looking about Morocco's president.

https://africa.cgtn.com/wp-content/photo-gallery/2017/04/sipa_ap21690618_000010-592x296-1486380067.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS6SwWOkmjR9v-ZXJCHJsP-nzrsrUkkmEkRIauBzffS6Q2t_UbE&usqp=CAU

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/King_Mohammed_VI.jpg

[Adamm]

There's something non-Berber looking about Morocco's president.

https://africa.cgtn.com/wp-content/photo-gallery/2017/04/sipa_ap21690618_000010-592x296-1486380067.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS6SwWOkmjR9v-ZXJCHJsP-nzrsrUkkmEkRIauBzffS6Q2t_UbE&usqp=CAU

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/King_Mohammed_VI.jpg

He has Haratin ancestry (SSA), his father Hassan the second was half Haratin half Berber:

https://i.imgur.com/GCvWC0z.png
https://i.imgur.com/FrH2hdJ.png

Alawite family is also mostly upon the G haplogroup and not the Berber E-M183.

[Nassbean]

He has Haratin ancestry (SSA), his father Hassan the second was half Haratin half Berber:

https://i.imgur.com/GCvWC0z.png
https://i.imgur.com/FrH2hdJ.png

Alawite family is also mostly upon the G haplogroup and not the Berber E-M183.

I didn't know his wife was haratin are you sure about that ?

[Adamm]

I didn't know his wife was haratin are you sure about that ?

The mother of Hassan2 was supposedly Haratin (which makes sense seeing his appearance is SSA influenced).

[Nassbean]

The mother of Hassan2 was supposedly Haratin (which makes sense seeing his appearance is SSA influenced).

strangely I've never seen a pic of her even on family pictures and I doubt a king would take a haratin as wife

[Adamm]

strangely I've never seen a pic of her even on family pictures and I doubt a king would take a haratin as wife

LOL Alawite history is all about having black female concubines.

[Nassbean]

LOL Alawite history is all about having black female concubines.

true but that was centuries ago I'm not aware of any recent haratin princess

[JQP4545]

If NA admixture came with the Moors then why is it highest in Galicia, a region which they never controlled?

[SharpFork]

proportion of berber haplogroups :

https://i.imgur.com/kHbNS6k.jpg

based on this study : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524485/


Regardless of what this study says those aren't Berber haplogroups, more like haplogroups with deep origins that Berbers have a lot, the increase presence in Iberia is of obvious origin but but the presence north of the Mediterranean is obviously mediated through other populations.

[SharpFork]

If NA admixture came with the Moors then why is it highest in Galicia, a region which they never controlled?
Nobody is saying ALL of the admiture came with the moors, regardless there were internal resettlement of new Christians within late medieval and early modern Spain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_the_Alpujarras_(1568%E2%80%9371)

And Nassbean can also point out some examples of Roman era and I believe also Islamic era berber communities that remained and were assimilated around Northern Spain.

Let me flip the question, if NA admixture is not of recent(meaning post-Bronze Age) origin, why is there so little evidence for it in Neolithic, Copper age and Bronze age samples outside the south?

[Luso]

yeah... those charts are off. At least for Portugal.

This is better:


https://i.imgur.com/NLzA14h.png

The one with the least samples gives an average of 12%, the median gives an average of 7% and the one with the most samples averages 6%. And in both research, the result is the same: the more trials, the lower the haplogroup's percentage. Portugal's rate is about 5%-6%

[Nassbean]

yeah... those charts are off. At least for Portugal.

This is better:


https://i.imgur.com/NLzA14h.png

The one with the least samples gives an average of 12%, the median gives an average of 7% and the one with the most samples averages 6%. And in both research, the result is the same: the more trials, the lower the haplogroup's percentage. Portugal's rate is about 5%-6%

that's false. Based on more than 1000 samples the average for Portugal is 14% :

https://i.imgur.com/lv8J6hT.png

https://eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml#frequency

[Nassbean]

Regardless of what this study says those aren't Berber haplogroups, more like haplogroups with deep origins that Berbers have a lot, the increase presence in Iberia is of obvious origin but but the presence north of the Mediterranean is obviously mediated through other populations.

sure sure such differences can only be explained by e1b1b jews and italians it has nothing to do with where moors settled ...:picard2:

[yamagi]

No offence, but you're just doing this too often, it's getting boring

[Nassbean]

If NA admixture came with the Moors then why is it highest in Galicia, a region which they never controlled?

You simply didn't read what I posted. There is already an answer in the first quote I posted.

[Nassbean]

No offence, but you're just doing this too often, it's getting boring

it's boring then why do you care so much ? As far as I know it doesn't concerns you

[yamagi]

it's boring then why do you care so much ? As far as I know it doesn't concerns you

If you don't have any constructive topics, only the same circle jerk posts then why are you active on a European cultural community?

[Nassbean]

If you don't have any constructive topics, only the same circle jerk posts then why are you active on a European cultural community?

haha are you really expecting constructive topics from such a forum ? It's just entertainment If I want to learn something I know where to go

[SharpFork]

sure sure such differences can only be explained by e1b1b jews and italians it has nothing to do with where moors settled ...:picard2:
Not sure if you understood me, the E1b1b or whatever haplogroup present in Northern and Eastern Europe is obviously of non-Berber origin, that's what I meant.

[Nassbean]

Not sure if you understood me, the E1b1b or whatever haplogroup present in Northern and Eastern Europe is obviously of non-Berber origin, that's what I meant.

What do you mean ? We're talking specifically about berber lineages such as e-m81, e-m78, U6, etc Those high amount of berber lineages found in regions like extremadura can only be explained by the massive presence of moors stop trying to always underestimate it

[SharpFork]

What do you mean ? We're talking specifically about berber lineages such as e-m81, e-m78, U6, etc Those high amount of berber lineages found in regions like extremadura can only be explained by the massive presence of moors stop trying to always underestimate it
You showed a list that and claimed it show Berber YDNA, do you actually believe there is 2-3% Berber YDNA in Germany, Poland, Denmark?

[Damião de Góis]

that's false. Based on more than 1000 samples the average for Portugal is 14% :

https://i.imgur.com/lv8J6hT.png

https://eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml#frequency

Not sure what you were counting, but those at Eupedia represent all E1b, not just E-M81.

[Nassbean]

Not sure what you were counting, but those at Eupedia represent all E1b, not just E-M81.

Ask yourself why there is such difference between Portugal and regions like catalonia. Sure certainly not because of the moors :picard1:

[Damião de Góis]

Ask yourself why there is such difference between Portugal and regions like catalonia. Sure certainly not because of the moors :picard1:

E1b in Iberia is not only E-M81, and i think you're only interested in counting E-M81?


In Europe, E-M81 is widespread but rare, in the Iberian Peninsula shows an average frequency of 4% (45/1140) in the Iberian Peninsula with frequencies reaching 3.5% in Galicia, 4% in Western Andalusia and Northwest Castile. However this study includes 153 individuals from Majorca, Minorca and Ibiza islands as well as 24 individuals from Gascony which are not in the Iberian Peninsula. Without these 177 individuals, average for Iberian Peninsula is 4.1% (40/963),[49] it is found at comparable levels to E-M78, with an average frequency of around 5%. Its frequencies are higher in the western half of the peninsula with frequencies reaching 8% in Extremadura and southern Portugal, 4% to 5% in Galicia, 5% in western Andalusia and 4% in northwest Castile and 9% to 17% in Cantabria.[26][50][51][52][53] The highest frequencies of this clade found so far in Europe were observed in the Valles Pasiegos from Cantabria, ranging from 5.5% (8/45)[53] to 41% (23/56).[8] An average frequency of 8.28% (54/652) has also been reported in the Spanish Canary Islands with frequencies over 10% in the three largest islands of Tenerife (10.68%), Gran Canaria (11.54%) and Fuerteventura (13.33%).[54]

I'm yet so see a portuguese member with this haplogroup, so you can tell it's not so frequent.

[Nassbean]

E1b in Iberia is not only E-M81, and i think you're only interested in counting E-M81?



I'm yet so see a portuguese member with this haplogroup, so you can tell it's not so frequent.

North africans are not only under E-M81 but ok.

[Damião de Góis]

North africans are not only under E-M81 but ok.

E-V13 has more or less the same frequency, i think there's a portuguese member with this haplogroup. Which other E subclades could North Africans have brought to Iberia?

[Hajimurad]

North africans are not only under E-M81 but ok.

Why people forget about R1b-V88 when thy speak about Berber contribution?

[Nassbean]

E-V13 has more or less the same frequency, i think there's a portuguese member with this haplogroup. Which other E subclades could North Africans have brought to Iberia?

E-m78, E-M35, E-V65, E-V22, etc They could have even brought some J1 (I'm myself J1-M267)

[Rocinante]

that's false. Based on more than 1000 samples the average for Portugal is 14% :

https://i.imgur.com/lv8J6hT.png

https://eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml#frequency

E-M78 might be punic and E-M81 is berber, also depending the clade. Only 4% of Iberia is E-M81, the rest might be punic or Neolithic.

[Nassbean]

Why people forget about R1b-V88 when thy speak about Berber contribution?

Probably because it's quite rare to find it among maghrebis but yes we shouldn't forget it too

[Nassbean]

E-M78 might be punic and E-M81 is berber, also depending the clade. Only 4% of Iberia is E-M81, the rest might be punic or Neolithic.

punic ? The oldest E-M78 bearers were iberomaurusians... Punics were most likely under J2 and J1

[Rocinante]

punic ? The oldest E-M78 bearers were iberomaurusians... Punics were most likely under J2 and J1

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-66e2911666b7767b26faa35e89212a41

That's why i say it could came with the Punics, but i might be wrong. E-M81 peaks in Northwest Africa, making it berber for sure, and E-M78 peaks in Northeast Africa and the Horn of Africa, also present in the Levant. Both can't be berber.

[Rocinante]

Why people forget about R1b-V88 when thy speak about Berber contribution?

The oldest R1b-V88 is of Villabruna 1, found in Villabruna, Italy, Europe, the oldest WHG. I don't really care if nigerians have this clade by a bottleneck effect.

[Nassbean]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-66e2911666b7767b26faa35e89212a41

That's why i say it could came with the Punics, but i might be wrong. E-M81 peaks in Northwest Africa, making it berber for sure, and E-M78 peaks in Northeast Africa and the Horn of Africa, also present in the Levant. Both can't be berber.

It peaks also among atlas berbers. It can't be from punics we already have tons of haplogroup datas from ancient levantines and most of them were J1

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Not sure what you were counting, but those at Eupedia represent all E1b, not just E-M81.

Tu já publicaste aqui no fórum uma anteriormente um estudo que até à data é o mais amplo dedicado exclusivamente às linhagens paternais dos Portugueses. São 657 amostras no total de todas as regiões de Portugal continental.

https://i.imgur.com/4KE2SGi.png

Fonte: http://public-files.prbb.org/publicacions/21f90cee-6cc0-4587-9cc6-989f589ecb4e.pdf

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/HgE1b1b1a2.png

The distribution of E-V13 according to the dataset of Cruciani (2007) et al.

Como é óbvio, existem diversas denominações E1b não sendo todas exclusivamente do Norte de África. E-M81 (E3b1b) a nível nacional tem uma média de 5.6% e uma das variantes europeias, E-V13 (E3b1a) tem uma média de 4.1%. Basicamente isto é uma thread sobre mentiras e não a verdade, como seria de esperar vindo de alguém meio aciganado.

[Rocinante]

Tu já publicaste aqui no fórum uma anteriormente um estudo que até à data é o mais amplo dedicado exclusivamente às linhagens paternais dos Portugueses. São 657 amostras no total de todas as regiões de Portugal continental.

https://i.imgur.com/4KE2SGi.png

Fonte: http://public-files.prbb.org/publicacions/21f90cee-6cc0-4587-9cc6-989f589ecb4e.pdf

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/HgE1b1b1a2.png

Como é óbvio, existem diversas denominações E1b não sendo todas exclusivamente do Norte de África. E-M81 (E3b1b) a nível nacional tem uma média de 5.6% e uma das variantes europeias, E-V13 (E3b1a) tem uma média de 4.1%. Basicamente isto é uma thread sobre mentiras e não a verdade, como seria de esperar vindo de alguém meio aciganado.

Almost 80% of people from Setubal are R1b, wow. Wonder which clades, taking in account that the majority are DF27, but from what i saw in Anthrogenica, there is a decent bunch of L21 and U106 in Portugal.

[Nassbean]

Tu já publicaste aqui no fórum uma anteriormente um estudo que até à data é o mais amplo dedicado exclusivamente às linhagens paternais dos Portugueses. São 657 amostras no total de todas as regiões de Portugal continental.


Como é óbvio, existem diversas denominações E1b não sendo todas exclusivamente do Norte de África. E-M81 (E3b1b) a nível nacional tem uma média de 5.6% e uma das variantes europeias, E-V13 (E3b1a) tem uma média de 4.1%. Basicamente isto é uma thread sobre mentiras e não a verdade, como seria de esperar vindo de alguém meio aciganado.



yes north africans are only under E-M81... :picard2:

[Duffmannn]

The region under the longest moor domination, Granada, has barely "north african" admixture.

[Rocinante]

yes north africans are only under E-M81... :picard2:

Sure not, but what you have to see is the frecuency of the clades. How common is the M78 in Morocco, for example?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

yes north africans are only under E-M81... :picard2:

Silence gypsy, I am not talking to you. A few posts ago you were trying to imply that 14% of Portugal was under E1b of exclusive North African denominations and now you are mumbling like a little pitiful dishonest gypsy that you are.

[Nassbean]

The region under the longest moor domination, Granada, has barely "north african" admixture.

the area was repopulated...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

proportion of berber haplogroups :

https://i.imgur.com/kHbNS6k.jpg



According to Nassbean gypsy brain 5.4% of the Estonian population has a Berber haplogroup. Would love to hear the theory of the arrival of the Berbers into Estonia.

[Nassbean]

Sure not, but what you have to see is the frecuency of the clades. How common is the M78 in Morocco, for example?

People from atlas mountains get 10% in average (while other berbers around 3% )

[Nassbean]

According to Nassbean gypsy brain 5.4% of the Estonian population has a Berber haplogroup. Would love to hear the theory of the arrival of the Berbers into Estonia.

Even by removing all the E-V13 you want these % will still be high for iberia (at least in comparison to the rest of europe :) )

[Rocinante]

People from atlas mountains get 10% in average (while other berbers around 3% )

And i image that the rest fall under M81. This might explain that could be levantine or punic migrations, doesn't it? If not, how could be? I imagine the M78 and M81 are different as R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21.

[Nassbean]

Silence gypsy, I am not talking to you. A few posts ago you were trying to imply that 14% of Portugal was under E1b of exclusive North African denominations and now you are mumbling like a little pitiful dishonest gypsy that you are.

Honestly you shouldn't even discuss with me. Everytime you tried you lost miserably I'm starting to feel sorry...

[Nassbean]

And i image that the rest fall under M81. This might explain that could be levantine or punic migrations, doesn't it? If not, how could be? I imagine the M78 and M81 are different as R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21.

there is also E-V22 ( and do not forget J1-M267 which is present in a decent proportion among us) and how can it be from punic migrations if it's almost absent in tunisia and peaks in the atlas mountains ?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Even by removing all the E-V13 you want these % will still be high for iberia (at least in comparison to the rest of europe :) )

At the end of the day you are not concerned about the "truth" as you claim. Your only purpose is to try to antagonize others. After dismissing your usual lies you can only resort to "buh is still high in comparison to the rest of Europe". So as it turns out it is not 14% anymore, in the best case is 5%-6%. What is exactly that you are trying to imply with it anyway? That someone who gets a Berber haplogroup is a Berber? If that is the case then you are nothing more than a byproduct of Arab rape, lets not forget that you are under a Semitic J1 clade that has zero to do with indigenous people of Morocco.

[Duffmannn]

the area was repopulated...

Many repopulators by force should have come from northern regions with hight "north african" contribution: Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Castille and Leon.

Your theory sucks.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Honestly you shouldn't even discuss with me. Everytime you tried you lost miserably I'm starting to feel sorry...

I am still waiting for you to explain the 5% Berber haplos in Estonia, gypsy-faced being.

[Adamm]

Berbers are mostly E-M183 (I would say ^70%, after that E-M78 around 20% and the rest is mixed between E-V65 and some other clades). But E-M78 is very old (formed 19900 ybp, TMRCA 13400 ybp) so I won't call it a pure Berber marker, Berbers didn't even existed when Em78 was born. E-M183 (formed 13900 ybp, TMRCA 2700 ybp) with a TMRCA of 2700 is much 'younger' and in my book the 'pure' Berber marker.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Berbers are mostly E-M183 (I would say ^70%, after that E-M78 around 20% and the rest is mixed between E-V65 and some other clades). But E-M78 is very old (formed 19900 ybp, TMRCA 13400 ybp) so I won't call it a pure Berber marker, Berbers didn't even existed when Em78 was born. E-M183 (formed 13900 ybp, TMRCA 2700 ybp) with a TMRCA of 2700 is much 'younger' and in my book the 'pure' Berber marker.

Good that you remind us that Nass The Beaner is a complete outlier for Morocco being under J1 since he is now trying to imply that Berbers introduced "a shit load of J clades into the peninsula".

[Nassbean]

At the end of the day you are not concerned about the "truth" as you claim. Your only purpose is to try to antagonize others. After dismissing your usual lies you can only resort to "buh is still high in comparison to the rest of Europe". So as it turns out it is not 14% anymore, in the best case is 5%-6%. What is exactly that you are trying to imply with it anyway? That someone who gets a Berber haplogroup is a Berber? If that is the case then you are nothing more than a byproduct of Arab rape, lets not forget that you are under a Semitic J1 clade that has zero to do with indigenous people of Morocco.

I'm not trying to imply anything that's what you want me to do because you're always triggered/Scared when I talk about your people. The point of the thread is to make things clear about NA influences in Iberia so why not talking about haplogroups too ? And what are you trying to do with my haplogroup ? Stay at your place it won't work.

[Nassbean]

Many repopulators by force should have come from northern regions with hight "north african" contribution: Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Castille and Leon.

Your theory sucks.

high NA in cantabria ? in the Basque region ? in catalonia ? in Aragon ? La rioja? Navarre ? Castille-leon ? Thanks.


This movement also included a large Christian repopulation of the Iberian Peninsula, with various Christian rulers seizing the areas that were abandoned by defeated and/or fleeing Muslim populations.

https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-was-significance-reconquista-spain-635122

[Nassbean]

Berbers are mostly E-M183 (I would say ^70%, after that E-M78 around 20% and the rest is mixed between E-V65 and some other clades). But E-M78 is very old (formed 19900 ybp, TMRCA 13400 ybp) so I won't call it a pure Berber marker, Berbers didn't even existed when Em78 was born. E-M183 (formed 13900 ybp, TMRCA 2700 ybp) with a TMRCA of 2700 is much 'younger' and in my book the 'pure' Berber marker.

where did you get 20% for E-M78 ???

[Adamm]

Good that you remind us that Nass The Beaner is a complete outlier for Morocco being under J1 since he is now trying to imply that Berbers introduced "a shit load of J clades into the peninsula".

J1/J2 in Iberia was most likely mainly introduced through Phoenicians and Jews, and then through Arabs later on. J1/2 in North Africa either came from the Phoenicians or Arabs, and maybe some outliers from ancient Egyptians.

[Nassbean]

Good that you remind us that Nass The Beaner is a complete outlier for Morocco being under J1 since he is now trying to imply that Berbers introduced "a shit load of J clades into the peninsula".

hahah how is it possible to be so ignorant ? J1 reaches 30% in Algeria ...just saying.

[Adamm]

where did you get 20% for E-M78 ???

I've read that on a statistic, i will try to find it.

[Rgvgjhvv]

He has Haratin ancestry (SSA), his father Hassan the second was half Haratin half Berber:

https://i.imgur.com/GCvWC0z.png
https://i.imgur.com/FrH2hdJ.png

Alawite family is also mostly upon the G haplogroup and not the Berber E-M183.

He doesn't look 50% SSA at all.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

hahah how is it possible to be so ignorant ? J1 reaches 30% in Algeria ...just saying.

Are you Algerian now? Didn't know, from now on you must start introducing yourself as the J1 Algerian-Arab, the last stronghold of the "real" Berbers.

[Nassbean]

Are you Algerian now? Didn't know, from now on you must start introducing yourself as the J1 Algerian-Arab, the last stronghold of the "real" Berbers.

My paternal family is from Oujda at the border with Algeria ...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

J1/J2 in Iberia was most likely mainly introduced through Phoenicians and Jews, and then through Arabs later on. J1/2 in North Africa either came from the Phoenicians or Arabs, and maybe some outliers from ancient Egyptians.

J1 in Portugal represents 3% of the total paternal lineages and it is likely of Sephardic origin. J2 was introduced most likely through the Romans.

[Adamm]

My paternal family is from Oujda at the border with Algeria ...

Oujda is known for having Arab tribes settling in there, you should test your terminal haplogroup to find out if its Arab or not. I do think it's Arab though, most J1 from Tourirt to Oujda came from the same line and are pretty recent in Morocco (like Sja3 tribe, Angad tribes). Majority of J1 carriers in North Africa are descends of Arabs, either from the first wave of Arabs around 700AD or the second wave (1000AD) with the Hilalian invasion.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My paternal family is from Oujda at the border with Algeria ...

Congratulations. With 30% of its people under J1 it does sound like a very authentic coastal berber region...the irony when the internet Berber warrior doesn't even belong to a Berber lineage.

[Nassbean]

Oujda is known for having Arab tribes settling in there, you should test your terminal haplogroup to find out if its Arab or not. I do think it's Arab though, most J1 from Tourirt to Oujda came from the same line and are pretty recent in Morocco (like Sja3 tribe, Angad tribes). Majority of J1 carriers in North Africa are descends of Arabs, either from the first wave of Arabs around 700AD or the second wave (1000AD) with the Hilalian invasion.

I'm aware of this and according to the y-seq predictor it's indeed an arabic subclade (mostly found among yemenites which confirms the banu maqil presence in this region)

[Adamm]

I'm aware of this and according to the y-seq predictor it's indeed an arabic subclade (mostly found among yemenites which confirms the banu maqil presence in this region)

Yep the Banu Maqil also settled North in Saidia, but they are majority of Angad tribes.

[Nassbean]

Congratulations. With 30% of its people under J1 it does sound like a very authentic coastal berber region...the irony when the internet Berber warrior doesn't even belong to a Berber lineage.

Honestly don't really discuss about those subjects you clearly don't really know what you're talking about. You always try to discredit me with weak arguments ...yes sure now I'm not berber because I'm J1-M267 :lol: Even Adamm here has more arab admixture than me stop embarassing yourself.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Even Adamm here has more arab admixture than me stop embarassing yourself.

I denote a certain jealousy, is it because Adamm is not only lighter than you but actually does descend from a Berber lineage? You are so desperate that you will even throw low blows to your own countrymen.

Could also explain why he comes out as a normal person and never does retarded threads filled with lies such as this one. He isn't some insecure diaspora Moroccan trying to compensate for being bullied at school by Belgians.

[PanchoV98]

It's funny how there was a North African Invasion in Iberia, and it really didn't end up impacting their phenotype at all in most cases. I don't know if it's due to the Reconquista or if Iberian genes are just that strong.

[Nassbean]

I denote a certain jealousy, is it because Adamm is not only lighter than you but actually does descend from a Berber lineage? You are so desperate that you will even throw low blows to your own countrymen.

Could also explain why he comes out as a normal personal and never does retarded threads filled with lies such as this one. He isn't some insecure diaspora Moroccan trying to compensate for being bullied at school by Belgians.

https://media.giphy.com/media/LyJ6KPlrFdKnK/source.gif

wtf are you talking about ?

I see that you're really triggered hahahahaha calling me gypsy and now desesperately trying to portray me as some kind of ass*oles :rotfl:

(btw I've never seen him)


and how can I be bullied at school by belgians if most people in my class were maghrebis ?? (I can post pics of my classes)

again you failed. Now go back larping as a proud european crusader with 15% visigothic blood :lmao

[Nassbean]

It's funny how there was a North African Invasion in Iberia, and it really didn't end up impacting their phenotype at all in most cases. I don't know if it's due to the Reconquista or if Iberian genes are just that strong.

most muslims in al andalus were locals not north africans : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muladi

[Daos777]

And i image that the rest fall under M81. This might explain that could be levantine or punic migrations, doesn't it? If not, how could be? I imagine the M78 and M81 are different as R1b-DF27 and R1b-L21.

How can it be Levantine when E-M78 is rare in levant? More rare than atlas barbers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PanchoV98]

most muslims in al andalus were locals not north africans : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muladi

So they were the "Mestizos" of those times? Very Interesting, makes more sense then why it didn't really affect the appearance of most Iberian in the end, I imagine it kind of died out.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

wtf are you talking about ?

I see that you're really triggered hahahahaha calling me gypsy

Heck, had you introduced yourself as the fit brother of Mortimer no one would have doubted, the similarities are striking.


and now desesperately trying to portray me as some kind of ass*oles :rotfl:

(btw I've never seen him)

You kind are. Mentioning his Arab ancestry in attempt to diminish is Berber ancestry to prove that you are not any more Arab than he is sounds like a low blow. At the end of the day the difference is still clear, even if he has more Arab ancestry it means his Berber paternal lineage mingled with Semitic women whereas in your case you descend from some Arab that had an harem of Berber women.


and how can I be bullied at school by belgians if most people in my class were maghrebis ?? (I can post pics of my classes)

A class with a Maghrebi diaspora majority...it explains why you are so smart.


again you failed. Now go back larping as a proud european crusader with 15% visigothic blood :lmao

As CV would say, "you would kill to be anything even remotely close to that".

[Damião de Góis]

It's funny how there was a North African Invasion in Iberia, and it really didn't end up impacting their phenotype at all in most cases. I don't know if it's due to the Reconquista or if Iberian genes are just that strong.

It's just that the iberian peninsula suffered invasions from the romans, barbarians and moors. They all lasted centuries but in the end iberians are mostly R1b of the iberian variety and cluster far from those three "invaders" (or their modern approximates) as well. So none of those invasions changed the population too much. I'd say the one that had the most impact were the romans as you can see with language.

[Nassbean]

Heck, had you introduced yourself as the fit brother of Mortimer no one would have doubted, the similarities are striking.

says the mixed brazilian looking guy.




You kind are. Mentioning his Arab ancestry in attempt to diminish is Berber ancestry to prove that you are not any more Arab than he is sounds like a low blow. At the end of the day the difference is still clear, even if he has more Arab ancestry it means his Berber paternal lineage mingled with Semitic women whereas in your case you descend from some Arab that had an harem of Berber women.

What's wrong with saying that he's more ME shifted than me ? I mentionned it to break your stupid argument that's it.




A class with a Maghrebi diaspora majority...it explains why you are so smart.

Yes it explains why I'm currently at university while you have no degree.



As CV would say, "you would kill to be anything even remotely close to that".

I would kill to have some "visigothic" ancestors ? Is that a joke ? I can maybe understand in the case of romans or greeks or persian but I don't see what's attractive regarding iberian or "visigothic" dna.

[Rocinante]

How can it be Levantine when E-M78 is rare in levant? More rare than atlas barbers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know that it peaks in northeast Africa, but second place would be the Levant and southeastern Europe next.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

says the mixed brazilian looking guy.





What's wrong with saying that he's more ME shifted than me ? I mentionned it to break your stupid argument that's it.





Yes it explains why I'm currently at university while you have no degree.




I would kill to have some "visigothic" ancestors ? Is that a joke ? I can maybe understand in the case of romans or greeks or persian but I don't see what's attractive regarding iberian or "visigothic" dna.

Pretty much a mixed Brazilian of Portuguese and Italian descent.

I have a degree, post-graduation and a master, which one do you prefer? What is so impressive about it? If I could travel in time I probably wouldn't do it again. So basically you are at the University, what an amazing achievement that literally every single millennial does. Plus, in Belgium they probably admit all the Maghreb with poor grades into the universities to not be considered "racist".

Yes, you do not care at all about Iberian ancestry and you are very proud of being Moroccan. That is why you are not obsessed with Iberians at all as this threads show, plus you have mentioned several times that your closest friends in real life are all Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and what not because you do not identify that much with the Moroccan diaspora. Once a liar, always a liar, nothing new.

[Nassbean]

Pretty much a mixed Brazilian of Portuguese and Italian descent.

lmao you simply don't look like the average european. People here would consider you like a mixed latino or north african certainly not as a fellow european brother. Portugueses I've met even complained about this.


I have a degree, post-graduation and a master, which one do you prefer? What is so impressive about it? If I could travel in time I probably wouldn't do it again. So basically you are at the University, what an amazing achievement that literally every single millennial does. Plus, in Belgium they probably admit all the Maghreb with poor grades into the universities to not be considered "racist".

Master or not you don't really seem to be particularly brilliant or smart I've put you at your place many times despite the age gap and experience. As I told you before just avoid debating with me and come back in some years when you will acquire the maturity and intelligence to debate with me.

Well yes it's an achievement here but I doubt you know how our educational system works ...you probably think every "millennial" has a chance to be at university :lol: Maybe in a country with a bad educational system but certainly not here.


Yes, you do not care at all about Iberian ancestry and you are very proud of being Moroccan. That is why you are not obsessed with Iberians at all as this threads show, plus you have mentioned several times that your closest friends in real life are all Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and what not because you do not identify that much with the Moroccan diaspora. Once a liar, always a liar, nothing new.

I do not care indeed just look at what I posted first (two quotes of people lying about NA admixture in their country so I had to make things clear) and also sometimes I just like playing with you it's just entertainment to me.

I never said my closest friends were portuguese/spanish or italian I said I have friends from those countries. Also I don't see why having SE friends makes you automatically a moroccan that does not identify with his community ?? again wtf are you talking about ?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

lmao you simply don't look like the average european. People here would consider you like a mixed latino or north african certainly not as a fellow european brother. Portugueses I've met even complained about this.



Master or not you don't really seem to be particularly brilliant or smart I've put you at your place many times despite the age gap and experience. As I told you before just avoid debating with me and come back in some years when you will acquire the maturity and intelligence to debate with me.

Well yes it's an achievement here but I doubt you know how our educational system works ...you probably think every "millennial" has a chance to be at university :lol: Maybe in a country with a bad educational system but certainly not here.



I do not care indeed just look at what I posted first (two quotes of people lying about NA admixture in their country so I had to make things clear) and also sometimes I just like playing with you it's just entertainment to me.

I never said my closest friends were portuguese/spanish or italian I said I have friends from those countries. Also I don't see why having SE friends makes you automatically a moroccan that does not identify with his community ?? again wtf are you talking about ?

Define average European? I look Southern, not Northern. I have traveled throughout most of Eastern Europe and though everyone never guessed me as Portuguese (people do not expect to see Portugueses in Latvia, Estonia, Slovakia, etc) I was commonly mistaken for Spanish or Italian. If I looked like a Sub-Saharan mixed Brazilian then I would look basically like a Moroccan and according to your own past words, I do not.

I never claimed to be smart, I do not have to. I let others judge that. For the same reason I do not need to bring up my academic curriculum to prove a point, whereas you do. Something that only retarded people who think that having a diploma makes you smarter than others do. If you want to bring life experience into the topic, with your age I had already my degree and had been working since I was eighteen. You live in some kind of attic with your parents as your selfies show and judging by how much time you were already spending in here before the covid pandemia, I would say you barely put any time into studying.

You've shown many times that you do not identify with the Moroccan diaspora and that you feel that they are burden to you because everyone associates them with crime, terrorism and people that do not integrate. I rest my case.

[Daos777]

I know that it peaks in northeast Africa, but second place would be the Levant and southeastern Europe next.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200606/d228fc7c22df97f03cc955f2d18d6a4b.jpg


It’s actually Africa then Europe, the majority of the E in Levant is non E-M78.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nassbean]

Define average European? I look Southern, not Northern. I have traveled throughout most of Eastern Europe and though everyone never guessed me as Portuguese (people do not expect to see Portugueses in Latvia, Estonia, Slovakia, etc) I was commonly mistaken for Spanish or Italian. If I looked like a Sub-Saharan mixed Brazilian then I would look basically like a Moroccan and according to your own past words, I do not.

I never claimed to be smart, I do not have to. I let others judge that. For the same reason I do not need to bring up my academic curriculum to prove a point, whereas you do. Something that only retarded people who think that having a diploma makes you smarter than others do. If you want to bring life experience into the topic, with your age I had already my degree and had been working since I was eighteen. You live in some kind of attic with your parents as your selfies show and judging by how much time you were already spending in here before the covid pandemia, I would say you barely put any time into studying.

You've shown many times that you do not identify with the Moroccan diaspora and that you feel that they are burden to you because everyone associates them with crime, terrorism and people that do not integrate. I rest my case.

I don't see you passing in any parts of europe except your country. You would be seen as a foreigner in most of Europe and you know it. And yes sure all moroccans look brazilian + SSA keep believing this to confort yourself.

Indeed you didn't claim it but I'm judging you. Also I brought my "academic curriculum" because you simply insulted my classmates and that's quite ironic when yourself brought the master argument ;) and we clearly see that you're in lack of arguments now he's trying to bring my activity on this site or my parents :lol: Pathetic as always.

[Damião de Góis]

lmao you simply don't look like the average european. People here would consider you like a mixed latino or north african certainly not as a fellow european brother. Portugueses I've met even complained about this.


Yes yes, you've said before that all portuguese you've met in Belgium looked like moroccans. If Viriato looks like a mixed brazilian to you, then i would say your judgment is not the best.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I don't see you passing in any parts of europe except your country. You would be seen as a foreigner in most of Europe and you know it. And yes sure all moroccans look brazilian + SSA keep believing this to confort yourself.

Indeed you didn't claim it but I'm judging you. Also I brought my "academic curriculum" because you simply insulted my classmates and that's quite ironic when yourself brought the master argument ;) and we clearly see that you're in lack of arguments now he's trying to bring my activity on this site or my parents :lol: Pathetic as always.

If I only pass in Portugal that is awesome, it is all that matters pretty much. Other member's opinion is different though, here are 29 pages for your entertainment: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?194406-Can-Viriato-pass-in-your-country

Now read your own pass Nassbean thread and compare. According to your own words, many people say that you look like this guy:

https://i.imgur.com/YiAZC6p.png

I only mentioned it because you said I have no degree but I made no fuss about it unlike you. Even said I wouldn't do it if I could go back in time. Anyway, enjoy living with your parents until you are 50 years old with your amazing degree.

[Nassbean]

Yes yes, you've said before that all portuguese you've met in Belgium looked like moroccans. If Viriato looks like a mixed brazilian to you, then i would say your judgment is not the best.

some portuguese members here can pass in belgium but most don't and let alone the ones I knew. Sorry but he doesn't look west european to me he would be very exotic for Belgium

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdC-dny8Rdc&t=435s


Portugueses in Belgium, they all look like Moroccan gypsies as we can see.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

some portuguese members here can pass in belgium but most don't and let alone the ones I knew. Sorry but he doesn't look west european to me he would be very exotic for Belgium

Which Portuguese said that they can pass in Belgium? I do not remember any claiming that. Would love if you could quote who did.

[Nassbean]

If I only pass in Portugal that is awesome, it is all that matters pretty much. Other member's opinion is different though, here are 29 pages for your entertainment: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?194406-Can-Viriato-pass-in-your-country

Now read your own pass Nassbean thread and compare. According to your own words, many people say that you look like this guy:


I only mentioned it because you said I have no degree but I made no fuss about it unlike you. Even said I wouldn't do it if I could go back in time. Anyway, enjoy living with your parents until you are 50 years old with your amazing degree.


Why don't you post the link of the thread ? Because they all disagreed :) https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?316764-A-lot-of-people-told-me-I-look-like-this-rapper

meanwhile that's what they said for me : https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?322484-PASS-CLASSIFY-Nassbean-!-2020-edition


Also do you expect any kind of objectivity for a non-european member on a far-right forum ?

[Nassbean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdC-dny8Rdc&t=435s


Portugueses in Belgium, they all look like Moroccan gypsies as we can see.

hhaha I can see that you have no idea how belgians look like ...if you think those portuguese look like locals then you're delusional. I never said you look moroccan I said natives here would think you are. They mistook me for a spaniard and you want you to pass for a belgian ? Lmao.

[Nassbean]

Which Portuguese said that they can pass in Belgium? I do not remember any claiming that. Would love if you could quote who did.

I never implied that. I'm just stating a fact and that's it.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

hhaha I can see that you have no idea how belgians look like ...if you think those portuguese look like locals then you're delusional. I never said you look moroccan I said natives here would think you are. They mistook me for a spaniard and you want you to pass for a belgian ? Lmao.

For them everything that is darker than them is moroccan lol

I repeat, who said that they look like Belgians? I am just trying to understand why they are mistaken for Moroccan gypsies according to your own words when they look nothing like you. I assume that Belgium is so overcrowded with Moroccans gypsies that anyone who does not look native Belgian and is brunette is immediately taken as one, that has got to be the case then.

[Smeagol]

Southwest Europeans have some North African ancestry and North Africans have some European ancestry. All the genetic studies come to the same conclusion. Not sure why it's a problem for some people.

[Damião de Góis]

some portuguese members here can pass in belgium but most don't and let alone the ones I knew. Sorry but he doesn't look west european to me he would be very exotic for Belgium

Not passing as a local in belgium =/= looking like a mixed race brazilian. Why would we pass in Belgium anyway? Belgium is pretty far.

A representative thread of people from the southern regions:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?323818-Portuguese-bullfighters

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Southwest Europeans have some North African ancestry and North Africans have some European ancestry. All the genetic studies come to the same conclusion. Not sure why it's a problem for some people.

The problem is when you open a thread entitled "the truth" and claim that 14% Portugueses carry a Berber haplogroup when in reality it is not even half of that.

[Nassbean]

I repeat, who said that they look like Belgians? I am just trying to understand why they are mistaken for Moroccan gypsies according to your own words when they look nothing like you. I assume that Belgium is so overcrowded with Moroccans gypsies that anyone who does not look native Belgian and is brunette is immediately taken as one, that has got to be the case then.

Belgians are europeans and pass easily in the british islands, France, the netherlands, germany , switzerland, etc ...we can't say the same when it comes to your people and especially you. That's the point.

Also you really believes calling us "gypsies" will trigger me ? Can you remind me how old you are ? And wasn't it you who tried to discredit me by calling me a "racist" ?

[Nassbean]

Not passing as a local in belgium =/= looking like a mixed race brazilian. Why would we pass in Belgium anyway? Belgium is pretty far.

A representative thread of people from the southern regions:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?323818-Portuguese-bullfighters

Because he keeps thinking he looks "euro" and can pass in other parts of Europe while it's not the case. And he simply looks like a mixed brazilian to me (someone with 15% ssa).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Belgians are europeans and pass easily in the british islands, France, the netherlands, germany , switzerland, etc ...we can't say the same when it comes to your people and especially you. That's the point.

Also you really believes calling us "gypsies" will trigger me ? Can you remind me how old you are ? And wasn't it you who tried to discredit me by calling me a "racist" ?

Belgians are European and I am assuming that the Portuguese are not? So every other European who looks southerner and does not pass in the British Isles, Germany and so on is not European?

A friendly reminder to you, we do not need a Moroccan gypsy to say who is European and who is not. If you are not racist then there's no problem in calling you gypsy, take it as a compliment.

[Nassbean]

Belgians are European and I am assuming that the Portuguese are not? So every other European who looks southerner and does not pass in the British Isles, Germany and so on is not European?

A friendly reminder to you, we do not need a Moroccan gypsy to say who is European and who is not. If you are not racist then there's no problem in calling you gypsy, take it as a compliment.

Don't be such a hypocrite. You implied many times before that you can pass easily in other parts of Europe which is false and I'm well placed to know that.

And I'm not racist but you clearly use this community and their name as a racist slur and a way to belittle us but as you said I should take it as a compliment.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Because he keeps thinking he looks "euro" and can pass in other parts of Europe while it's not the case. And he simply looks like a mixed brazilian to me (someone with 15% ssa).

If I look like someone who is 15% SSA then just say that I look like a Moroccan because that's pretty much what the average is in the coastal areas, increasing as further south you go.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Don't be such a hypocrite. You implied many times before that you can pass easily in other parts of Europe which is false and I'm well placed to know that.

And I'm not racist but you clearly use this community and their name as a racist slur and a way to belittle us but as you said I should take it as a compliment.

Quote me where I said I can pass in other regions. Do it.

The regions that people said I could pass are mostly comprised of other southern European nations, Spain, Italy, Greece and a few Balkan nations. But I will wait for your quote on where I said that I pass anywhere in Belgium, Germany, British Isles, etc.

[Nassbean]

If I look like someone who is 15% SSA then just say that I look like a Moroccan because that's pretty much what the average is in the coastal areas, increasing as further south you go.

so anyone that has 15% ssa looks moroccan ? bruh :picard2: and I only have 5-6% ssa stop embarassing yourself with your ignorance

[Nassbean]

Quote me where I said I can pass in other regions. Do it.

The regions that people said I could pass are mostly comprised of other southern European nations, Spain, Italy, Greece and a few Balkan nations. But I will wait for your quote on where I said that I pass anywhere in Belgium, Germany, British Isles, etc.

I don't have time to check all your post history But I clearly remember you implying it. You're exotic for most of Europe. Period.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

so anyone that has 15% ssa looks moroccan ? bruh :picard2: and I only have 5-6% ssa stop embarassing yourself with your ignorance

6% SSA plus 20% SSA of your 70% Iberomaurussian ancestry. You're basically over 10% Sub-Saharan. In Gedmatch you even score 20% SSA and Gedmatch is an admixture tool, not a mere PCA coordinates like G25.

[Damião de Góis]

The last belgian that played football here was Steven Defour. Impossible phenotype:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/i9_ie8JT5R1gwUPbyuXiCXxM6kghH3ZHuksesO9i0rCTbfZP-Sbqzsn9LU6pC8BjGdn6PsMji8UpdBPzxGBwm9rjScnxJoX0js3 osv-DF4hswTtUaaJB5-e5bUEXzpgHKCmuVQpuGFT-fc8JnYkCCrGdJRKagLJQ74GFLAMuryqehjvfs6wNRIW5iHThtz c

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I don't have time to check all your post history But I clearly remember you implying it. You're exotic for most of Europe. Period.

Most of Northern Europe is exotic in terms of features in Southern Europe. Brilliant logic. Anyone who doesn't pass in whole of Europe is not European now.

You do not have time because there's no post of mine implying that.

[Nassbean]

6% SSA plus 20% SSA of your 70% Iberomaurussian ancestry. You're basically over 10% Sub-Saharan. In Gedmatch you even score 20% SSA and Gedmatch is an admixture tool, not a mere PCA coordinates like G25.

"20% SSA" , "70% iberomaurusian"...:picard1: While I'm only 1/3 iberomaurusian and ANA isn't a SSA component it totally predates most ssa groups.

meanwhile reality :


Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt-related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source11; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans23. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full


what's next ? You have ssa admixture because you have homo erectus ancestors ? :lmao


(btw should we talk about ssa admixture of portuguese members here ? )

[Nassbean]

even iberomaurusians looked more european than you :rotfl:

https://i.imgur.com/vf5nlPh.jpg

[Nassbean]

The last belgian that played football here was Steven Defour. Impossible phenotype:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/i9_ie8JT5R1gwUPbyuXiCXxM6kghH3ZHuksesO9i0rCTbfZP-Sbqzsn9LU6pC8BjGdn6PsMji8UpdBPzxGBwm9rjScnxJoX0js3 osv-DF4hswTtUaaJB5-e5bUEXzpgHKCmuVQpuGFT-fc8JnYkCCrGdJRKagLJQ74GFLAMuryqehjvfs6wNRIW5iHThtz c

it's like If I was posting a north african looking iberian ...

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

"20% SSA" , "70% iberomaurusian"...:picard1: While I'm only 1/3 iberomaurusian and ANA isn't a SSA component it totally predates most ssa groups.

meanwhile reality :



https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full


what's next ? You have ssa admixture because you have homo erectus ancestors ? :lmao

If Iberomaurussian can not be considered as incorporating SSA then I am sorry to tell you that according to the majority of G25 tools and runs I have virtually no SSA, because while I do get some Iberomaurussian I almost never get any percentage of Yoruba. We can not say the same about you.

[Nassbean]

Most of Northern Europe is exotic in terms of features in Southern Europe. Brilliant logic. Anyone who doesn't pass in whole of Europe is not European now.

You do not have time because there's no post of mine implying that.

Where did I say you're not european ? I simply said your phenotype is not "average" for Europe go cry elsewhere now

[Luso]

Where did I say you're not european ? I simply said your phenotype is not "average" for Europe go cry elsewhere now

What is the average European phenotype? Europe is huge.

[Damião de Góis]

it's like If I was posting a north african looking iberian ...

So you're saying he looks highly atypical? How about someone like Dries Mertens?

[Nassbean]

If Iberomaurussian can not be considered as incorporating SSA then I am sorry to tell you that according to the majority of G25 tools and runs I have virtually no SSA, because while I do get some Iberomaurussian I almost never get any percentage of Yoruba. We can not say the same about you.

thanks for contradicting yourself about iberomaurusians. And yes we can't say the same about me because I have 5-6% of real SSA but it doesn't matter I invite you to read the studies I posted they clearly highlight the fact that portuguese do have SSA admixture.

[Nassbean]

What is the average European phenotype? Europe is huge.

his face is typically portuguese and nothing else so obviously he doesn't represent the average european (you can't compare 10 millions of people with the rest of europe)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Where did I say you're not european ? I simply said your phenotype is not "average" for Europe go cry elsewhere now

I am waiting for you quoting on me where I said that I look Western\Northern European.


Still waiting.


So a Moroccan gypsy such as yourself that everyone says that looks like a mulato rapper (according to your own words) is "mistaken for a native in Spain" (I know it is a lie but lets pretend for the argument sake), but there's no way I would pass anywhere else outside Portugal.

[Luso]

his face is typically portuguese and nothing else so obviously he doesn't represent the average european (you can't compare 10 millions of people with the rest of europe)

Sure he fits in Portugal... but I'm asking who represents the average European??? because Europe is fucking huge.

[Nassbean]

So you're saying he looks highly atypical? How about someone like Dries Mertens?

both atypical and almost exclusively found in the south (also I don't know their families but there are tons of italians in wallonia I wouldn't be surprised if one of them has italian relatives)

[Daos777]

even iberomaurusians looked more european than you :rotfl:

https://i.imgur.com/vf5nlPh.jpg

Is that his actual head size? Like proportionally built? Looks huge af compared to her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Damião de Góis]

Sure he fits in Portugal... but I'm asking who represents the average European??? because Europe is fucking huge.

Maybe Stefan Effenberg?

https://www.thefootballmuseum.net/mbe-uploads/241%20effenberg.jpg

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Maybe Stefan Effenberg?

https://www.thefootballmuseum.net/mbe-uploads/241%20effenberg.jpg

That guy would be atypical in Belgium and\or more common among the Dutch. Average Belgian looks like a Frenchmen basically.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBd0Y6mllp4

[Nassbean]

I am waiting for you quoting on me where I said that I look Western\Northern European.


Still waiting.


So a Moroccan gypsy such as yourself that everyone says that looks like a mulato rapper (according to your own words) is "mistaken for a native in Spain" (I know it is a lie but lets pretend for the argument sake), but there's no way I would pass anywhere else outside Portugal.

I said "imply" and keep waiting I will not waste hours there. And only two person said I look somewhat like him and I was surprised by it that's why I made a thread about it and everybody confirmed what I thought.

Most belgians where I live would guess me as moroccan but when you meet people from the countryside who are not used to see moroccans like me they start thinking we're spaniards (probably because they think moroccans look like somalis lol) and that means a lot about how you're viewed by other europeans.

[Nassbean]

Is that his actual head size? Like proportionally built? Looks huge af compared to her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks indeed to big to be realistic in terms of proportions but who knows lol

[Damião de Góis]

That guy would be atypical in Belgium and\or more common among the Dutch. Average Belgian looks like a Frenchmen basically.


I was being ironic. Let's call Effenberg the TA european benchmark.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I was being ironic. Let's call Effenberg the TA european benchmark.

Yes, he is the average European benchmark from now on and Nassbean is the benchmark for Southern European since he now even gets mistaken as a Spaniard in Belgium.

[Nassbean]

That guy would be atypical in Belgium and\or more common among the Dutch. Average Belgian looks like a Frenchmen basically.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBd0Y6mllp4

Why do you speak as if you knew anything about them ? No not all belgians look like french people especially not flemish people

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Why do you speak as if you knew anything about them ? No not all belgians look like french people especially not flemish people

Flemish people are basically Dutch, dumb-dumb. As I said he would be more common among the Dutch.

[Nassbean]

Yes, he is the average European benchmark from now on and Nassbean is the benchmark for Southern European since he now even gets mistaken as a Spaniard in Belgium.

you never believe me because these kind of truth hurt you deeply. But I don't care if you believe me or not I'm not trying to convince you.

[Nassbean]

Flemish people are basically Dutch, dumb-dumb. As I said he would be more common among the Dutch.

they are still belgians and make up the majority of the country. dumb-dumb.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

you never believe me because these kind of truth hurt you deeply. But I don't care if you believe me or not I'm not trying to convince you.

Of course I believe you, you and your family decide to leave Molenbeek and go on vacation to the country side of Belgium and as it is completely normal strangers approach you to tell you they thought you were Spanish.

Plus you also have a Spanish girlfriend. Lets not forget.

[Nassbean]

Of course I believe you, you and your family decide to leave Molenbeek and go on vacation to the country side of Belgium and as it is completely normal strangers approach you to tell you they thought you were Spanish.

Plus you also have a Spanish girlfriend. Lets not forget.

??? I don't live in Molembeek. I've been to the countryside because of many family members live there , because yes people want to know more about you, because of school travels, etc ...and yes I had a spanish gf I don't see what's weird with that

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Never forget the imaginary Spanish girlfriend. Very important to make a point.

https://i.imgur.com/W8I75eN.png

[Nassbean]

sure I wasn't trolling especially when you look at the context of the thread...

[Synapsid]

The oldest R1b-V88 is of Villabruna 1, found in Villabruna, Italy, Europe, the oldest WHG. I don't really care if nigerians have this clade by a bottleneck effect.

Yes, V88 was WHG and it contributed to EEF populations in Iberia. When Iberian farmers spread to North Africa, it may has been carried into the chadic sahel region, achieving high frequency there. Its European in origin.

[Rocinante]

What happened to Nassbean?

[Axios]

Silence gypsy, I am not talking to you. A few posts ago you were trying to imply that 14% of Portugal was under E1b of exclusive North African denominations and now you are mumbling like a little pitiful dishonest gypsy that you are.

Its funny how you always insult even if a thread is not accurate. You even lied and manipulated things i supposedly said because you wanted to start an argument. Seems like you are also obsessed with berber threads.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Its funny how you always insult even if a thread is not accurate. You even lied and manipulated things i supposedly said because you wanted to start an argument. Seems like you are also obsessed with berber threads.

Are you in need for attention? Seems so, you must be desperate to be randomly quoting me over things I said a year ago.

[Axios]

Are you in need for attention? Seems so, you must be desperate to be randomly quoting me over things I said a year ago.

Then you better learn and apologize because im not Nassbean neither a troll. You insulted me yesterday over nothing, for some reason you told i was insecure (seems like everyone who disagrees with you is insecure). And that wasnt over a year ago bud.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Then you better learn and apologize because im not Nassbean neither a troll. You insulted me yesterday over nothing, for some reason you told i was insecure (seems like everyone who disagrees with you is insecure). And that wasnt over a year ago bud.

Apologize over what? I never quoted you, you were the first to address me over something I said. If the shoe fits, wear it :shrug:

[Axios]

Apologize over what? I never quoted you, you were the first to address me over something I said. If the shoe fits, wear it :shrug:Well, you used a plural, instead of quoting Hamilcar.. and a despective plural btw.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T Pro mediante Tapatalk

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Well, you used a plural, instead of quoting Hamilcar.. and a despective plural btw.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T Pro mediante Tapatalk

Do you want a million euro compensation for your victimization?

[Axios]

Do you want a million euro compensation for your victimization?No, i'll have enough when you dont put all of us in the same boat. From now on dont put words in my mouth and we will be fine.

Enviado desde mi Mi 9T Pro mediante Tapatalk

[Rafael Passoni]

This 'NA' seens overared.

[Rafael Passoni]

Is that true to Gibraltarians?

[Alazair]

in memory of Luso