What language did Bell Beakers speak?

[Skeleton]

Was it proto-Celtic, an unknown IE language, or a pre-IE language?

[PaleoEuropean]

Swahili

[Ülev]

at 0:46


https://youtu.be/uYib5sE3-qc

[PaleoEuropean]

at 0:46


https://youtu.be/uYib5sE3-qc

Where did you find this piece of history?

[Jingle Bell]

No idea, we dont even know if they speaked a IE language or no, the best proof its Lusitani language which seens somehow related to Italo-Celtic, prob brought in Iberia by German Bell Beaker that for some reason only spoke a IE language in Lusitania region (im refering to before the celts), but despite that we just cant know what language they speak

[cmt160]

They were an IE-descended and IE-speaking group, but their language (IE-descended) went extinct when the proto-celts expanded and assimilated those bell beakers.
Iirc a bell-beaker language survived up until the roman expansion in Iberia (the lusitanian language) which linguists tried to associate with the italic branch of the italo-celtic languages (Unetice-descended) due to lack of knowledge (thats why they couldn't succesfully associate it with italic languages, and why it officially remains "unclassified") rather than associating it with the bell beakers (which is what it was). Ofc there would be similarities with proto italo-celtic because both Unetice (ancestors of protoitalocelts/protogermanics/protoslavs) and bell beakers were IE descended. But thats the same as pointing out similarities between greek and latin because both are IE so ofc theres resemblance, even if both came from different branches of IE.

Ik this thread is about linguistics, but the "celts" in western europe were genetically/"autosomally" predominately bell beaker, like basically fully/almost fully. They just spoke the language of the elite that conquered them (La Tene/Hallstatt from central europe).

[Blondie]

finno-ugric

[Jingle Bell]

They were an IE-descended and IE-speaking group, but their language (IE-descended) went extinct when the proto-celts expanded and assimilated those bell beakers.
Iirc a bell-beaker language survived up until the roman expansion in Iberia (the lusitanian language) which linguists tried to associate with the italic branch of the italo-celtic languages (Unetice-descended) due to lack of knowledge (thats why they couldn't succesfully associate it with italic languages, and why it officially remains "unclassified") rather than associating it with the bell beakers (which is what it was). Ofc there would be similarities with proto italo-celtic because both Unetice (ancestors of protoitalocelts/protogermanics/protoslavs) and bell beakers were IE descended. But thats the same as pointing out similarities between greek and latin because both are IE so ofc theres resemblance, even if both came from different branches of IE.

Ik this thread is about linguistics, but the "celts" in western europe were genetically/"autosomally" predominately bell beaker, like basically fully/almost fully. They just spoke the language of the elite that conquered them (La Tene/Hallstatt from central europe).

La Tene/Hallsttat is also Beaker derived (They descended from Urnfield, which descended from Unecite which descended from Beakers) so i think its plausible that they spoke a IA Language related to Italo-Celtic, if that they did not absorved a Megalithic/EEF language from farmers XD who knows

[Odelia]

Bellend

[Grace O'Malley]

They would have spoken some Proto-Indo-European language I think. Bell Beakers descend from Corded Ware so I think the languages would be Proto-Indo-European. Another puzzle related to this is how the Celtic language became so widely spoken in Ireland when the population is much more Bell Beaker than Celtic. I find it difficult to think a small population of Celts are going to change the majority language if it was not something similar. Anyway that's another puzzle. But for the reasons I've stated I would say some type of Proto-Indo-European.

[Creoda]

They would have spoken some Proto-Indo-European language I think. Bell Beakers descend from Corded Ware so I think the languages would be Proto-Indo-European. Another puzzle related to this is how the Celtic language became so widely spoken in Ireland when the population is much more Bell Beaker than Celtic. I find it difficult to think a small population of Celts are going to change the majority language if it was not something similar. Anyway that's another puzzle. But for the reasons I've stated I would say some type of Proto-Indo-European.
Almost certainly because Ireland was Celticised by British Celts of largely native Bronze Age stock. It's hard to imagine language change in those days without massive population turnover.

[Grace O'Malley]

Almost certainly because Ireland was Celticised by British Celts of largely native Bronze Age stock. It's hard to imagine language change in those days without massive population turnover.

Yes I agree.

[Abti]

Gobbledygook.

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

They would have spoken some Proto-Indo-European language I think. Bell Beakers descend from Corded Ware so I think the languages would be Proto-Indo-European. Another puzzle related to this is how the Celtic language became so widely spoken in Ireland when the population is much more Bell Beaker than Celtic. I find it difficult to think a small population of Celts are going to change the majority language if it was not something similar. Anyway that's another puzzle. But for the reasons I've stated I would say some type of Proto-Indo-European.

what is the ethnic difference between celts and bell beakers ?
i always assumed celts were a branch of bell beakers

[Grace O'Malley]

what is the ethnic difference between celts and bell beakers ?
i always assumed celts were a branch of bell beakers

Bell Beakers are an earlier population and spread out in the Bronze Age. The ones that went to Ireland and Britain for instance were thought to be Dutch Bell Beakers. There was a near total population replacement in Britain and Ireland. They are the people that brought R1b-L21 to the Isles. Before that the Irish and British Farmers were predominantly ydna I2b which they acquired from Hunter Gatherers. These Bronze Age Bell Beakers came to Ireland before there were any Celts. Celts are an Iron Age population and it is though they originated in Central Europe so yes they did grow out of the earlier populations there but if you look at the Continental Celts their dna is different than Irish Bell Beakers and the Irish today still owe the major part of their dna to Bell Beakers and not Continental Celts. So if the Celts originated in Central Europe and there was a mass migration to places like Ireland this will show in Irish dna but the Irish still are closer to Bronze Age Bell Beaker populations than any of the Continental Celtic populations. I do think there was some Continental Celtic geneflow into Ireland but I don't believe it was direct but via Britain so diluted to start with. It's a puzzle as to how Ireland became Celtic speaking. I do think Bell Beakers spoke some related languages and they traded so possibly trade with Europe. The Celtic language might have been a lingua franca but I really don't know how it happened. I'm not sure how this will ever be answered really but there must be some logical and plausible reason for it. I do think it is fascinating.

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

Bell Beakers are an earlier population and spread out in the Bronze Age. The ones that went to Ireland and Britain for instance were thought to be Dutch Bell Beakers. There was a near total population replacement in Britain and Ireland. They are the people that brought R1b-L21 to the Isles. Before that the Irish and British Farmers were predominantly ydna I2b which they acquired from Hunter Gatherers. These Bronze Age Bell Beakers came to Ireland before there were any Celts. Celts are an Iron Age population and it is though they originated in Central Europe so yes they did grow out of the earlier populations there but if you look at the Continental Celts their dna is different than Irish Bell Beakers and the Irish today still owe the major part of their dna to Bell Beakers and not Continental Celts. So if the Celts originated in Central Europe and there was a mass migration to places like Ireland this will show in Irish dna but the Irish still are closer to Bronze Age Bell Beaker populations than any of the Continental Celtic populations. I do think there was some Continental Celtic geneflow into Ireland but I don't believe it was direct but via Britain so diluted to start with. It's a puzzle as to how Ireland became Celtic speaking. I do think Bell Beakers spoke some related languages and they traded so possibly trade with Europe. The Celtic language might have been a lingua franca but I really don't know how it happened. I'm not sure how this will ever be answered really but there must be some logical and plausible reason for it. I do think it is fascinating.

did the bell beakers also introduce R1b into Iberia ?

[Grace O'Malley]

did the bell beakers also introduce R1b into Iberia ?

Yes they did but the R1b they brought to Iberia was R1b-DF27 so that is also interesting as to why the different R1b. I think the R1b-L21 Beakers were earlier and migrated from the Lower Rhine to Netherland before the Bell Beakers that went to Iberia. They took a different route and went via Southern France into Iberia. Iberia had a much higher population of Farmers so Bell Beakers there appear to have taken Iberian wives and possibly killed a lot of the men. It is also likely that they used the men for labour but the Bell Beakers did procreate with the women so in Iberia it was male dominated.

[HectorOfTroy]

what is the ethnic difference between celts and bell beakers ?
i always assumed celts were a branch of bell beakers

The celtic culture originated from Bell Beakers. However there is a bit of genetic (autosomal not chromosomal, since they're all overwhelmingly R1b) and strong phenotypical diversity between celts in the British Isles.
For example Britons were short and swarthy (gracile med with some WHG influence), while Scots might of been alot more Bell Beakeroid in appearance (tall and wide, vaguely Dinariform and light, a depigmented Steppe basically) , Scottish people also carry a high amount of Steppe DNA relative to their neighbors.

[Grace O'Malley]

The celtic culture originated from Bell Beakers. However there is a bit of genetic (autosomal not chromosomal, since they're all overwhelmingly R1b) and strong phenotypical diversity between celts in the British Isles.
For example Britons were short and swarthy (gracile med with some WHG influence), while Scots might of been alot more Bell Beakeroid in appearance (tall and wide, vaguely Dinariform and light, a depigmented Steppe basically) , Scottish people also carry a high amount of Steppe DNA relative to their neighbors.

I don't think Celtic culture originated from Bell Beakers. There is no evidence for that.