Frequency of North African DNA in French people

[RyoHazuki]

MyHeritage is a bad admix calculator, gives many people false positives. But how many French people get North African as one of these false positives? I get nearly 10% African DNA, nearly 10% Balkan, and only 2-3% Italy/Iberia. Is there anything unique to the French genome that triggers false positives?
https://i.imgur.com/6vXyTHP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[yamagi]

The strong maghrebi presence trigger French dna.

[Adamm]

MyHeritage is a bad admix calculator, gives many people false positives. But how many French people get North African as one of these false positives? I get nearly 10% African DNA, nearly 10% Balkan, and only 2-3% Italy/Iberia. Is there anything unique to the French genome that triggers false positives?
https://i.imgur.com/6vXyTHP_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Do you have your G25 coordinates?

[dududud]

LOL Myheritage, ok..

What a reliable source!

Global 25 + gedmatch. Also you are mixed, french don't have north african.

[Gallop]

Well I am Spanish and I have 4% and I even showed it to my doctor and she said to me that this must be something very, very old.

[Cristiano viejo]

LOL Myheritage, ok..

What a reliable source!

Global 25 + gedmatch. Also you are mixed, french don't have north african.

from your own thread https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?321661-Central-french-results

K13
1 North_Atlantic 41.72
2 West_Med 23.1
3 Baltic 18.97
4 East_Med 8.19
5 West_Asian 4.61
6 Red_Sea 1.63
7 Northeast_African 0.78
8 South_Asian 0.44
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Sub-Saharan 0.18

K15

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.27
2 North_Sea 23.73
3 West_Med 18.05
4 Baltic 8.73
5 Eastern_Euro 6.83
6 East_Med 6.03
7 West_Asian 2.79
8 Red_Sea 1.72
9 Northeast_African 0.47
10 Sub-Saharan 0.31
11 Oceanian 0.09

[Nassbean]

from your own thread https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?321661-Central-french-results

K13
1 North_Atlantic 41.72
2 West_Med 23.1
3 Baltic 18.97
4 East_Med 8.19
5 West_Asian 4.61
6 Red_Sea 1.63
7 Northeast_African 0.78
8 South_Asian 0.44
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Sub-Saharan 0.18

K15

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.27
2 North_Sea 23.73
3 West_Med 18.05
4 Baltic 8.73
5 Eastern_Euro 6.83
6 East_Med 6.03
7 West_Asian 2.79
8 Red_Sea 1.72
9 Northeast_African 0.47
10 Sub-Saharan 0.31
11 Oceanian 0.09


where is the north african ? northeast_african is the horn not the maghreb

[Gallop]

I think I have seen that in the Neolithic there is a good percentage of E and then there is again. I am a simple fan but the most expert will be able to publish the results that have just come out of France.

[Cristiano viejo]

where is the north african ? northeast_african is the horn not the maghreb

So north east african is not north african, according You...

[Nassbean]

So north east african is not north african, according You...

not according to me ask anyone here you'll see. On gedmatch "northeast_african" peaks among horners not north africans.

[Nassbean]

So north east african is not north african, according You...

not according to me ask anyone here you'll see. On gedmatch "northeast_african" peaks among horners not north africans.

[RyoHazuki]

Do you have your G25 coordinates?

I believe I sent you them before.

[RyoHazuki]

LOL Myheritage, ok..

What a reliable source!

Global 25 + gedmatch. Also you are mixed, french don't have north african.

I started by saying it is bad and not to be taken literally haha. But would at least interesting if it was repeatable with others.

[Adamm]

I believe I sent you them before.

Yes I totally forgot, and yes you have around 5% eastern DNA, when I'm home ill try to run you again on some other models.

[RyoHazuki]

not according to me ask anyone here you'll see. On gedmatch "northeast_african" peaks among horners not north africans.

Strange wording, should just be east african if it's a horn african genetic signature.

[gixajo]

from your own thread https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?321661-Central-french-results

K13
1 North_Atlantic 41.72
2 West_Med 23.1
3 Baltic 18.97
4 East_Med 8.19
5 West_Asian 4.61
6 Red_Sea 1.63
7 Northeast_African 0.78
8 South_Asian 0.44
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Sub-Saharan 0.18

K15

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.27
2 North_Sea 23.73
3 West_Med 18.05
4 Baltic 8.73
5 Eastern_Euro 6.83
6 East_Med 6.03
7 West_Asian 2.79
8 Red_Sea 1.72
9 Northeast_African 0.47
10 Sub-Saharan 0.31
11 Oceanian 0.09

You can see NA component in k36.

[PaleoEuropean]

from your own thread https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?321661-Central-french-results

K13
1 North_Atlantic 41.72
2 West_Med 23.1
3 Baltic 18.97
4 East_Med 8.19
5 West_Asian 4.61
6 Red_Sea 1.63
7 Northeast_African 0.78
8 South_Asian 0.44
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Sub-Saharan 0.18

K15

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 31.27
2 North_Sea 23.73
3 West_Med 18.05
4 Baltic 8.73
5 Eastern_Euro 6.83
6 East_Med 6.03
7 West_Asian 2.79
8 Red_Sea 1.72
9 Northeast_African 0.47
10 Sub-Saharan 0.31
11 Oceanian 0.09

Less than 1% is just noise though

[gixajo]

LOL Myheritage, ok..

What a reliable source!

Global 25 + gedmatch. Also you are mixed, french don't have north african.

French do have NA. Less than Spanish or Portuguese as average, but they have too. More to South france, more NA, practically equalling the NA of the Spanish population in the other side of Pirenées.In the Basque French zone less or nothing, and more in the Southeastern region.

Surely you have seen it in some of your father results in many G25 models, and he is according to you from Northern France.

[Nassbean]

Strange wording, should just be east african if it's a horn african genetic signature.

no east african is more for kenyans, tanzanians, mozambiques, etc Horners are different

[coolfrenchguy]

in the spaniard and and portuguese population it's could goes up to 11 to 15 % maximum of north african DNA,could be less too ,but they are more able to have north african DNA than french natives ,because they were occupied by north african tribes while almost since 5 centuries,that's for the "official" historian view ,but the truth and the non-official historian view it's than they only had left the iberian peninsula at the very end of the 19th century,here i don't speak of the recent economical immigration,i speak of the muslim invaders,now for france and french natives we kick them out since a while in 732 AD known to be the battle of Tours or Poitiers with Charles Martel leading with the help of the franks ,the burgonds(a germano-danish tribe from denmark,my half ultra far remote ancestry) and the wisigoths and the anglo-saxons tribes ,for that, goes deep and seen into this historical period kown as the Umayyad invasion of Gaul between 719 an 732 ,if there is some north african DNA in the native french population ,it will very very very diluated and almost inexistant ,and almost impossible at a larger scale ,it's impossible than you have 10% of north african DNA
now, did you know where from wich area came your french ancestry?,i know it's quite hard but not impossible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_invasion_of_Gaul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

[RyoHazuki]

in the spaniard and and portuguese population it's could goes up to 11 to 15 % maximum of north african DNA,could be less too ,but they are more able to have north african DNA than french natives ,because they were occupied by north african tribes while almost since 5 centuries,that's for the "official" historian view ,but the truth and the non-official historian view it's than they only had left the iberian peninsula at the very end of the 19th century,here i don't speak of the recent economical immigration,i speak of the muslim invaders,now for france and french natives we kick them out since a while in 732 AD known to be the battle of Tours or Poitiers with Charles Martel leading with the help of the franks ,the burgonds(a germano-danish tribe from denmark,my half ultra far remote ancestry) and the wisigoths and the anglo-saxons tribes ,for that, goes deep and seen into this historical period kown as the Umayyad invasion of Gaul between 719 an 732 ,if there is some north african DNA in the native french population ,it will very very very diluated and almost inexistant ,and almost impossible at a larger scale ,it's impossible than you have 10% of north african DNA
now, did you know where from wich area came your french ancestry?,i know it's quite hard but not impossible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_invasion_of_Gaul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

For my French side? Primarily Gascony/Southwest

[Cristiano viejo]

in the spaniard and and portuguese population it's could goes up to 11 to 15 % maximum of north african DNA,could be less too ,but they are more able to have north african DNA than french natives ,because they were occupied by north african tribes

Not even a fuckin Spaniard scores 11% north African, are you crazy?

We were not occupied by North African tribes. NAs occupied a territory, not the people. Our ancestors or lived or fled into North Spain and since there they started the Reconquista since the very same beginning.
There is a difference.

[Nassbean]

Not even a fuckin Spaniard scores 11% north African, are you crazy?

We were not occupied by North African tribes. NAs occupied a territory, not the people. Our ancestors or lived or fled into North Spain and since there they started the Reconquista since the very same beginning.
There is a difference.

that's wrong most people in al andalus were muslim iberians called "muladi" and others were mozarabs (iberians who stayed christian but were arabized) : https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulad%C3%AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozarabs


Berbers and especially arabs were a minority.

Also your land was controlled by many north african tribes you just don't know your own history :

https://i.imgur.com/n6GxeLt.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

that's wrong most people in al andalus were muslim iberians called "muladi" and others were mozarabs (iberians who stayed christian but were arabized)


Berbers and especially arabs were a minority.
Everybody know this, that is irrelevant. Spaniards dont descend from muladis (you do) but from Iberians that, or already lived in North Spain, or fled there when the invasion.


Also your land was controlled by many north african tribes you just don't know your own history :



It is exactly what I am saying, retard. NAs controlled the land, not the people.

[gixajo]

in the spaniard and and portuguese population it's could goes up to 11 to 15 % maximum of north african DNA,could be less too ,but they are more able to have north african DNA than french natives ,because they were occupied by north african tribes while almost since 5 centuries,that's for the "official" historian view ,but the truth and the non-official historian view it's than they only had left the iberian peninsula at the very end of the 19th century,here i don't speak of the recent economical immigration,i speak of the muslim invaders,now for france and french natives we kick them out since a while in 732 AD known to be the battle of Tours or Poitiers with Charles Martel leading with the help of the franks ,the burgonds(a germano-danish tribe from denmark,my half ultra far remote ancestry) and the wisigoths and the anglo-saxons tribes ,for that, goes deep and seen into this historical period kown as the Umayyad invasion of Gaul between 719 an 732 ,if there is some north african DNA in the native french population ,it will very very very diluated and almost inexistant ,and almost impossible at a larger scale ,it's impossible than you have 10% of north african DNA
now, did you know where from wich area came your french ancestry?,i know it's quite hard but not impossible

rl]

Do you consider Aquitanians, Provenzals, Corsicans and Occitanians as Frenchs?

[Nassbean]

Everybody know this, that is irrelevant. Spaniards dont descend from muladis (you do) but from Iberians that, or already lived in North Spain, or fled there when the invasion.

That's false most moriscos were not expelled and only around 250000-300000 moriscos were effectively expelled (the total iberian population at that time was around 8 million)




It is exactly what I am saying, retard. NAs controlled the land, not the people.

Yes sure nobody lived on these lands ...

[Rocinante]

in the spaniard and and portuguese population it's could goes up to 11 to 15 % maximum of north african DNA,could be less too ,but they are more able to have north african DNA than french natives ,because they were occupied by north african tribes while almost since 5 centuries,that's for the "official" historian view ,but the truth and the non-official historian view it's than they only had left the iberian peninsula at the very end of the 19th century,here i don't speak of the recent economical immigration,i speak of the muslim invaders,now for france and french natives we kick them out since a while in 732 AD known to be the battle of Tours or Poitiers with Charles Martel leading with the help of the franks ,the burgonds(a germano-danish tribe from denmark,my half ultra far remote ancestry) and the wisigoths and the anglo-saxons tribes ,for that, goes deep and seen into this historical period kown as the Umayyad invasion of Gaul between 719 an 732 ,if there is some north african DNA in the native french population ,it will very very very diluated and almost inexistant ,and almost impossible at a larger scale ,it's impossible than you have 10% of north african DNA
now, did you know where from wich area came your french ancestry?,i know it's quite hard but not impossible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_invasion_of_Gaul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

The maximum and most atypical % of NA (Also sometimes ME) score i ever saw in G25 samples (there's a lot of samples) is ~10% ME/NA, the average is around 4~5%. That 11~15% xD where did you readed it?

[Cristiano viejo]

That's false most moriscos were not expelled and only around 250000-300000 moriscos were effectively expelled (the total iberian population at that time was around 8 million)


Yes sure nobody lived on these lands ...
Moriscos were being expelled since the Reconquista arrived to Andalusia. Tons of them fled to Africa, for example when Sevilla was reconquered in the early 1200s. So until 1492 when Reconquista finished and thousands and thousands of Moriscos already had fled or started to do it road to Africa.

The number that you give (300.000) is the amount of Moriscos that were left in Spain in 1609, when our king decided to expel absolutely to all.

The people that lived in the lands ruled by Muslims are your ancestors, not the ours. They became Muslims and thus were killed or expelled. Now they live in North Africa. Their descendants, of course.

[Nassbean]

Moriscos were being expelled since the Reconquista arrived to Andalusia. Tons of them fled to Africa, for example when Sevilla was reconquered in the early 1200s. So until 1492 when Reconquista finished and thousands and thousands of Moriscos already had fled or started to do it road to Africa.

The number that you give (300.000) is the amount of Moriscos that were left in Spain in 1609, when our king decided to expel absolutely to all.

The people that lived in the lands ruled by Muslims are your ancestors, not the ours. They became Muslims and thus were killed or expelled. Now they live in North Africa. Their descendants, of course.

nope :


By 1614 some 275,000 Moriscos had been forced to leave Spain. The majority of Spaniards undoubtedly approved of the expulsion.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Spain/The-reign-of-Philip-III#ref587583


around 40% of Spain's Moriscos managed to avoid expulsions altogether and up to a further 20% managed to return to Spain in the years following their expulsion

https://books.google.be/books?id=RtDCAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y


Thanks.

[Cristiano viejo]

nope :



https://www.britannica.com/place/Spain/The-reign-of-Philip-III#ref587583



https://books.google.be/books?id=RtDCAwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y


Thanks.

:laugh: you wish they could choose if goIng, remaining or returning :laugh:

[Nassbean]

:laugh: you wish they could choose if goIng, remaining or returning :laugh:

You lost every debates. :laugh:

[RyoHazuki]

that's wrong most people in al andalus were muslim iberians called "muladi" and others were mozarabs (iberians who stayed christian but were arabized) : https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulad%C3%AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozarabs


Berbers and especially arabs were a minority.

Also your land was controlled by many north african tribes you just don't know your own history :

https://i.imgur.com/n6GxeLt.jpg

Regardless I do not think I've seen an Iberian get more than 5% NA or African in general.

[PaleoEuropean]

What about the frequency of French DNA in North Africans?

LaDiEs AnD GeNtLeMeN

WE GOT HIM




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-15VC4Yxzys

[Nassbean]

Regardless I do not think I've seen an Iberian get more than 5% NA or African in general.

I didn't say anything regarding their dna here quite the opposite I've defended the fact that muslims in al andalus were local iberians

[Gaditanian]

that's wrong most people in al andalus were muslim iberians called "muladi" and others were mozarabs (iberians who stayed christian but were arabized) : https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulad%C3%AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozarabs


Berbers and especially arabs were a minority.

Also your land was controlled by many north african tribes you just don't know your own history :

https://i.imgur.com/n6GxeLt.jpg

But that map is from a different time from Al-Andalus when the caliphate of Cordoba ended.

For me there are two clear stages in Al-Andalus.

1st Stage from the Dependent Emirate until the end of the Caliphate, which was a great time of prosperity and development thanks to the tolerance of the Islamic leaders with other religions.

This stage is characterized by a cultural and linguistic Arabization of the Hispanic-Romans and the Hispanic-Goths.
Voluntary Arabization because Arabic in these years was a vehicular language with the rest of the Mediterranean and therefore with wealth, commerce and culture.

Arabic in these years would work like English today.

Everyone wanted to know Arabic, and Arabic fashion & culture was the trend.

However, the Arab and Berber racial contribution was minimal. The reason ?, North Africa was also prosperous and rich, there was no need to emigrate to the peninsula except for activities such as those already mentioned, commerce or culture.

2nd Stage, disintegration of the Caliphate and the invasion of the Almoravids and Almohads fanatics. which is the map that you have put.

This stage will be the one that will form in the Castilians the "romantic" vision of The Reconquista.

In a way, The Reconquista doesn't really start with Don Pelayo, but with the disappearance of the Caliphate.

In the first stage, thanks to the tolerance of the Islamic communities with the Christians, they never saw the need to convert to Islam, their faith was more powerful than the fiscal savings that this supposed.

However, the intolerance of almoravides and Almohads will made a persecution of Christians and forced conversions.

This will made a massive emigration of Iberian Christians from the territories of Al-Andalus to the territories of the Christian Kingdoms.

These Christians will told their tragedy to everyone, and will join the troops of the Christian Kingdoms.

This contribution will be essential for La Reconquista, because from that moment on, it will no longer be a battle between Christian Iberians against Muslim Iberians, but rather that of Christian Iberians against Muslim Berbers.

In fact, today there is still a Christian Medieval Order that testifies to these events.

The Order of the Mozarabic Knights of Toledo.

http://www.mozarabesdetoledo.es/cmt_constituciones.htm

[Nassbean]

But that map is from a different time from Al-Andalus when the caliphate of Cordoba ended.

For me there are two clear stages in Al-Andalus.

1st Stage from the Dependent Emirate until the end of the Caliphate, which was a great time of prosperity and development thanks to the tolerance of the Islamic leaders with other religions.

This stage is characterized by a cultural and linguistic Arabization of the Hispanic-Romans and the Hispanic-Goths.
Voluntary Arabization because Arabic in these years was a vehicular language with the rest of the Mediterranean and therefore with wealth, commerce and culture.

Arabic in these years would work like English today.

Everyone wanted to know Arabic, and Arabic fashion & culture was the trend.

However, the Arab and Berber racial contribution was minimal. The reason ?, North Africa was also prosperous and rich, there was no need to emigrate to the peninsula except for activities such as those already mentioned, commerce or culture.

2nd Stage, disintegration of the Caliphate and the invasion of the Almoravids and Almohads fanatics. which is the map that you have put.

This stage will be the one that will form in the Castilians the "romantic" vision of The Reconquista.

In a way, The Reconquista doesn't really start with Don Pelayo, but with the disappearance of the Caliphate.

In the first stage, thanks to the tolerance of the Islamic communities with the Christians, they never saw the need to convert to Islam, their faith was more powerful than the fiscal savings that this supposed.

However, the intolerance of almoravides and Almohads will made a persecution of Christians and forced conversions.

This will made a massive emigration of Iberian Christians from the territories of Al-Andalus to the territories of the Christian Kingdoms.

These Christians will told their tragedy to everyone, and will join the troops of the Christian Kingdoms.

This contribution will be essential for La Reconquista, because from that moment on, it will no longer be a battle between Christian Iberians against Muslim Iberians, but rather that of Christian Iberians against Muslim Berbers.

In fact, today there is still a Christian Medieval Order that testifies to these events.

The Order of the Mozarabic Knights of Toledo.

http://www.mozarabesdetoledo.es/cmt_constituciones.htm

Most of what you said here is correct but you shouldn't underestimate the berber presence during the umayyad caliphate (most of their soldiers were north africans especially in the first centuries and there are plenty of testimonials of the elite giving lands to berber tribes especially in the north)