Who have more Euro admix: Angolans/Mozambicans or Filipinos?

[Maguzanci]

So who?

Can anyone post DNA results of each pop to compare?

[El_Abominacion]

Full Angolans



https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang6-bakongo.png

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang2.png

(Full results not shown?)

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang3.jpg



Angolan Mestizos/Mestiços



https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang4.png

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang-cv1.jpg

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/ang1.jpg



Mozambican Mestizos/Mestiço (Only this one is available, no full Mozambicans)


https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/moz1.jpg






Filipinos:



https://i.redd.it/iuiz1qf5n3301.jpg

https://i.redd.it/qxymsgfpsor01.jpg

https://i.redd.it/awxgsi4xa4c21.jpg

https://i.redd.it/ukw53jsxtvq21.png

https://i.redd.it/j43cmcwlads21.jpg

https://i.redd.it/2j5irvw8jzo11.jpg

https://wearekubo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/genetic_1.png





https://imgur.com/xq4ChgW.jpg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-01be20be8366f639057389224973a253




https://i.imgur.com/Jikx9lE.jpg





https://s15.postimg.cc/odpew2h17/2018-08-24_23_58_58-_Ancestry_Composition_-_23and_Me.png





There is not very much to draw conclusions on in the Angolan samples because there are so few, the autosomal results are interesting nonetheless. All that can really be said conclusively is that the tested people who identify as fully Angolan have no European admixture whatsoever. Tested people who identify as Filipino will often have small amounts of European ancestry, between 0.1-4% typically. So, if going by 'full' Angolans and Filipinos, there's more present in Filipinos from the sample pool.

[Leto]

Filipinos. The African groups must be nearly zero European.

[Maguzanci]

Full Angolans



https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang6-bakongo.png

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang2.png

(Full results not shown?)

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang3.jpg



Angolan Mestizos/Mestiços



https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang4.png

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/ang-cv1.jpg

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/ang1.jpg



Mozambican Mestizos/Mestiço (Only this one is available, no full Mozambicans)


https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/moz1.jpg






Filipinos:

[spoiler]

https://i.redd.it/iuiz1qf5n3301.jpg

https://i.redd.it/qxymsgfpsor01.jpg

https://i.redd.it/awxgsi4xa4c21.jpg

https://i.redd.it/ukw53jsxtvq21.png

https://i.redd.it/j43cmcwlads21.jpg

https://i.redd.it/2j5irvw8jzo11.jpg

https://wearekubo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/genetic_1.png

https://imgur.com/xq4ChgW.jpg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-01be20be8366f639057389224973a253

https://i.imgur.com/Jikx9lE.jpg

https://s15.postimg.cc/odpew2h17/2018-08-24_23_58_58-_Ancestry_Composition_-_23and_Me.png

[/spolier]

There is not very much to draw conclusions on in the Angolan samples because there are so few, the autosomal results are interesting nonetheless. All that can really be said conclusively is that the tested people who identify as fully Angolan have no European admixture whatsoever. Tested people who identify as Filipino will often have small amounts of European ancestry, between 0.1-4% typically. So, if going by 'full' Angolans and Filipinos, there's more present in Filipinos from the sample pool.

Very interesting reply!

I thought Angola and Mozambique are African nations with significant Latino culture/influence (Portuguese) just like how Philippines is Asian country with significant Spanish/Latino influence.

It seems like the Portuguese mixed with Natives in Angola/Mozambique even less than the Spaniards did with the locals in Philippines. I guess most of Portuguese influence is cultural rather than genetics.

[yamagi]

The Spanish liked Philippina women, no doubt.

[El_Abominacion]

Very interesting reply!

I thought Angola and Mozambique are African nations with significant Latino culture/influence (Portuguese) just like how Philippines is Asian country with significant Spanish/Latino influence.

It seems like the Portuguese mixed with Natives in Angola/Mozambique even less than the Spaniards did with the locals in Philippines. I guess most of Portuguese influence is cultural rather than genetics.

Thanks and sorry about the initial awful formatting - the spoilers were being retarded and i've fixed them.

Yeah, I was initially under the impression that Mozambique and Angola didn't even have Mestizos, but were simply African nations with Portuguese cultural influence

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

2% of the Angolan population is ethnically a mestizo. It might not seem much but if you compare it to other Sub-Saharan nations I do not think you will not find any other with higher figures with the exception of South Africa and Cape-Verde (I have not checked demographic stats of each nation, I might be wrong but it is my impression).

Angola has a population of 31,127,674 inhabitants according to the latest estimation available from 2020 which means it has roughly 622,553 mestizos. It is a minority but visible from the experience I have had while living in Angola, particularly in Luanda.

Mozambique probably does not have more than 1% of its population identifying as a mestizo, likely they have ~300,000 people of mixed ethnic background (still their largest minority probably).

[Maguzanci]

2% of the Angolan population is ethnically a mestizo. It might not seem much but if you compare it to other Sub-Saharan nations I do not think you will not find any other with higher figures with the exception of South Africa and Cape-Verde (I have not checked demographic stats of each nation, I might be wrong but it is my impression).

Angola has a population of 31,127,674 inhabitants according to the latest estimation available from 2020 which means it has roughly 622,553 mestizos. It is a minority but visible from the experience I have had while living in Angola, particularly in Luanda.

Mozambique probably does not have more than 1% of its population identifying as a mestizo, likely they have ~300,000 people of mixed ethnic background (still their largest minority probably).

Do Angolan and Mozambican Mestizos intermarried and mixed with the indigenous Africans or do they separated and segregated themselves?

Seems like Philippines has higher distribution of Euro admix than these two African countries. Is there a reason why the Portuguese didn't intermix much with the natives compared to places like Cape Verde or Latin America? Just curious.

Also is it possible for indigenous Angolans/Mozambicans (non-mestizo) to have minor Euro admix from distant Portuguese ancestors?

[Maguzanci]

Thanks and sorry about the initial awful formatting - the spoilers were being retarded and i've fixed them.

Yeah, I was initially under the impression that Mozambique and Angola didn't even have Mestizos, but were simply African nations with Portuguese cultural influence

Me too. I thought Portuguese imposed some sort of racial hierarchy system in Angola Mozambique similar to those in.Latin America and Philippines.

Filipinos typically score minor Euro ancestry from 1-5% though many can also score around 6-10%, some Pinoy results can even be up to 15-20% Euro but its pretty atypical.

Btw that Filipino dna result seem unique. He/she score around 13.5% South Asian which is pretty unique and very atypical as most don't score South Asian on 23andme. Is he/she a Muslim or from somewhere in the south close to Indonesia/Malaysia? Do you have his/her gedmatch results?

[El_Abominacion]

Me too. I thought Portuguese imposed some sort of racial hierarchy system in Angola Mozambique similar to those in.Latin America and Philippines.

Filipinos typically score minor Euro ancestry from 1-5% though many can also score around 6-10%, some Pinoy results can even be up to 15-20% Euro but its pretty atypical.

Btw that Filipino dna result seem unique. He/she score around 13.5% South Asian which is pretty unique and very atypical as most don't score South Asian on 23andme. Is he/she a Muslim or from somewhere in the south close to Indonesia/Malaysia? Do you have his/her gedmatch results?

It's definitely an atypical result and definitely from recent ancestry, here's the original post

https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/aiww6t/im_filipino_w_a_23me_surprise/

They described their maternal uncles features as atypical for Filipinos so there's a good chance it comes from the maternal side

[Damião de Góis]

You have to remember that spanish control in the Philippines ended in 1898 while portuguese control over Angola and Mozambique only ended in 1974 so there's actually a lot of portuguese people that were born in the colonies and returned after 1974 when they became independent. This can be seen for example in a lot of portuguese actors, journalists, politicians, footballers, etc.
But not everyone returned so it's still possible to see portuguese influence in Angola and Mozambique. It's possible to find mozambicans that are fully portuguese like this writer:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Mia_Couto_cropped.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Couto

I don't think it's possible to find philipinos that are fully spanish.

[PaleoEuropean]

If you count Filipinos abroad definitely Filipinos.

[SharpFork]

If you count Filipinos abroad definitely Filipinos.

If you count Angolans abroad you end up counting many Brazilians, but that's cheating.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Do Angolan and Mozambican Mestizos intermarried and mixed with the indigenous Africans or do they separated and segregated themselves?

Seems like Philippines has higher distribution of Euro admix than these two African countries. Is there a reason why the Portuguese didn't intermix much with the natives compared to places like Cape Verde or Latin America? Just curious.

Also is it possible for indigenous Angolans/Mozambicans (non-mestizo) to have minor Euro admix from distant Portuguese ancestors?

The mestizos intermarry with the indigenous population with no problem whatsoever. Bare in mind that Angola in the 50's had a population of 5 million inhabitants and it is estimated that by the end of this century it will have a population of 200 million inhabitants. European genomes likely will be diluted and spread out, it will not be uncommon for Angolans to score at least 1% European.

[Tooting Carmen]

Filipinos.

[gixajo]

You have to remember that spanish control in the Philippines ended in 1898 while portuguese control over Angola and Mozambique only ended in 1974 so there's actually a lot of portuguese people that were born in the colonies and returned after 1974 when they became independent. This can be seen for example in a lot of portuguese actors, journalists, politicians, footballers, etc.
But not everyone returned so it's still possible to see portuguese influence in Angola and Mozambique. It's possible to find mozambicans that are fully portuguese like this writer:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Mia_Couto_cropped.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Couto

I don't think it's possible to find philipinos that are fully spanish.


I was going to say something similar.


I don't think it's possible to find philipinos that are fully spanish.

Something that could explain this, is the Japanese ocupation of Filipinas, that wiped out the largest colony of most pure Spanish descendents who stayed when the islands came under U.S. control in 1898.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masacre_de_Manila#La_colonia_espa%C3%B1ola

[GaneshD'Souza]

All the full Filipinos from 23andme's subreddit who posted a photo with their results:

1.
https://i.redd.it/4aaynnci42141.jpg

2.
https://i.redd.it/31jl34h1u9l41.jpg

3.
https://i.redd.it/o1wncnr9ibn41.jpg

4.
https://i.redd.it/57r6ywchzcm41.png

5.
https://i.redd.it/y7rnekdyewg41.png

6.
https://i.redd.it/12cvg1dguih41.jpg

7.
https://i.redd.it/42e1tvhnlee41.png

9.
https://i.redd.it/dkt8ho3l39e41.jpg

10.
https://i.redd.it/6ov1xoojvva41.png

11.
https://i.redd.it/u8zpoky899641.jpg

12.
https://i.redd.it/1unaqaiskr541.jpg

13.
https://i.imgur.com/OYkYXiS.jpg

14.
https://i.redd.it/7jjgoo2l7xl41.jpg

15.
https://i.redd.it/ukw53jsxtvq21.png

16.
https://i.redd.it/jruyblbxlnd41.jpg

17.
https://i.redd.it/a21jdc18edl41.png

18.
https://i.redd.it/875n04t2qax31.jpg

19.
https://i.redd.it/59qwo4aod0t41.png

20.
https://i.redd.it/a3u0kez733u41.jpg

21.
https://i.redd.it/ql11id0chpu41.jpg

23.
https://i.redd.it/4zt4h4e7u1v41.png

24.
https://i.redd.it/k3fb15vrq4t41.jpg

25.
https://i.redd.it/nuh8n100ku251.jpg

[GaneshD'Souza]

You have to remember that spanish control in the Philippines ended in 1898 while portuguese control over Angola and Mozambique only ended in 1974 so there's actually a lot of portuguese people that were born in the colonies and returned after 1974 when they became independent. This can be seen for example in a lot of portuguese actors, journalists, politicians, footballers, etc.
But not everyone returned so it's still possible to see portuguese influence in Angola and Mozambique. It's possible to find mozambicans that are fully portuguese like this writer:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Mia_Couto_cropped.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Couto

I don't think it's possible to find philipinos that are fully spanish.

There are plenty of Filipinos who pass as Spanish, still in the Philippines even after many generations

Here's one. Both his parents are Filipino. He's a 5th generation Filipino still in the Philippines
https://www.theasset.com/event/2017/philforum/images/speaker/carlos.png

Many others...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GxyeAEdzlo

[GaneshD'Souza]

I was going to say something similar.



Something that could explain this, is the Japanese ocupation of Filipinas, that wiped out the largest colony of most pure Spanish descendents who stayed when the islands came under U.S. control in 1898.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masacre_de_Manila#La_colonia_espa%C3%B1ola

No. It's a very common myth that the Spanish community was wiped out during the Manila Massacre. The Japanese actually liked the Spanish in Manila and for the most part they got along. It was only toward the end of the War, when they were losing, that they decided to destroy Manila. They didn't specifically target Spaniards, it was just that a lot of Spaniards lived there.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/andalucia/2020-02-21/el-desastre-de-manila-la-mayor-matanza-a-espanoles-en-el-siglo-xx-cumple-75-anos_2462568/

Read the article. It says "238 víctimas (había 3.000 censados)" So 238 of the 3,000 Spanish citizens in Manila were killed. Around half of the Spanish citizens in the Philippines lived in Manila. So the majority of Spanish citizens were NOT killed in the Manila Massacre. Btw, that 3,000 living in Manila only includes Spanish citizens, because even during the American period, there were Spanish citizens moving to the Philippines for business. Most Spanish criollos who had been there for a long time already became Filipino citizens like the Zobels, Elizaldes, etc.

For example, these families had already switch to Filipino citizenship, so they wouldn't have been counted in the 3,000. They still live in the Philippines to this day btw

Mother is from the Zobel de Ayala family, father is from the Elizalde family
https://i.ibb.co/tXY0GPj/81935042-302217630734448-3346435249644804911-n.jpg

Father is from the Preysler family (related to Enrique Iglesias), mother is from the Aboitiz family
https://i.ibb.co/jW96TpM/presss.jpg

Father is from the Aboitiz family, mother is from the Caburrus family
https://i.ibb.co/jgXQWwt/scan0025.jpg

Father is from the Elizalde family, mother is from the Cardenas family
https://i.ibb.co/bK6j9tg/msoc-2007-n02-p194-a01-v01.jpg

^All of those have roots in the Philippines going back to the early 1800s, and they would have already been citizens of the Philippines by the time the war struck. The 5,000 or so Spanish citizens in the Philippines at the time of WW2 were more recent arrivals who moved to the Philippines during the American period to work in the thriving tobacco industry.

Many more examples. Most are just from regular families, not wealthy, well-known family. Still living in the Philippines to this day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GxyeAEdzlo

Even after the war, there was never a large scale mass exodus of Spaniards back to Spain, because Spain wasn't doing too well either. I can only find one boat "exodus." The year after the massacre, one boat went from Manila to Spain. It says "El 16 de abril emprendió el viaje de regreso con casi 400 pasajeros, de ellos 262 eran repatriados, y entre estos se contaban un centenar de niños." So only 262 were Spanish citizens moving back to Spain, most were orphans. https://www.lavanguardia.com/hemerot...lus-ultra.html

[GaneshD'Souza]

More examples of European-passing Filipinos still living in the Philippines. None are recent expats. They have families that have been there for at least 100 years

The two white-passing girls are sisters from a full Filipino family. The Asian-looking woman in the video (Maria Parsons) is not related and she's only half Filipino

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiY-lYf5yQg

Enrique Razon- speaking Taglish like a regular urban Filipino. He has a working-class accent even though he's a billionaire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfH5sx7n8HU

Pilita Corrales speaking Tagalog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-prLhEePPw

Jaime Fabregas speaking Tagalog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JWJDcunpIA

These next examples aren't speaking Tagalog but they have an upper-class Filipino accent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SeSPqVeS00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gpLzXqmJGY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIygCMVjAJQ

In the video he's speaking English but he speaks a language in the Philippines called Cebuano because that's where he was raised

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TeaCPGMSEU

^Those are just some famous and high-society examples. There are plenty of regular, unknown people too.

She speaks Tagalog toward the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_STQrt9XhqE

He has a typical Filipino accent when speaking English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8H0Q69hPis

[gixajo]

No. It's a very common myth that the Spanish community was wiped out during the Manila Massacre. The Japanese actually liked the Spanish in Manila and for the most part they got along. It was only toward the end of the War, when they were losing, that they decided to destroy Manila. They didn't specifically target Spaniards, it was just that a lot of Spaniards lived there.


Read the article. It says "238 víctimas (había 3.000 censados)" So 238 of the 3,000 Spanish citizens in Manila were killed. Around half of the Spanish citizens in the Philippines lived in Manila. So the majority of Spanish citizens were NOT killed in the Manila Massacre. Btw, that 3,000 living in Manila only includes Spanish citizens, because even during the American period, there were Spanish citizens moving to the Philippines for business. Most Spanish criollos who had been there for a long time already became Filipino citizens like the Zobels, Elizaldes, etc.

For example, these families had already switch to Filipino citizenship, so they wouldn't have been counted in the 3,000. They still live in the Philippines to this day btw


Even after the war, there was never a large scale mass exodus of Spaniards back to Spain, because Spain wasn't doing too well either. I can only find one boat "exodus." The year after the massacre, one boat went from Manila to Spain. It says "El 16 de abril emprendió el viaje de regreso con casi 400 pasajeros, de ellos 262 eran repatriados, y entre estos se contaban un centenar de niños." So only 262 were Spanish citizens moving back to Spain, most were orphans. https://www.lavanguardia.com/hemerot...lus-ultra.html

And to tell me that, you have to give me a thumb down?;)

[Damião de Góis]

And to tell me that, you have to give me a thumb down?;)

I also got one, we must have insulted his honor :laugh:

[GaneshD'Souza]

^ Sorry, I don't like when people make false statements. It's nothing personal. The thumbs down just means "I don't think this is true" But I will go back and thumbs up just to be nice

[Damião de Góis]

^ Sorry, I don't like when people make false statements. It's nothing personal. The thumbs down just means "I don't think this is true" But I will go back and thumbs up just to be nice

No problem. I don't have much more examples from Mozambique other than that writer, but there are loads of Mozambican born portuguese that returned and those would be very easy to post. But i can think of some mixed footballers and i also know one example personally who is mixed. So they also have euro ancestry and it's recent.

[gixajo]

^ Sorry, I don't like when people make false statements. It's nothing personal. The thumbs down just means "I don't think this is true" But I will go back and thumbs up just to be nice

I can be wrong or misinformed, but what I don't do is deliberately cheat or falsify.

[GaneshD'Souza]

No problem. I don't have much more examples from Mozambique other than that writer, but there are loads of Mozambican born portuguese that returned and those would be very easy to post. But i can think of some mixed footballers and i also know one example personally who is mixed. So they also have euro ancestry and it's recent.

Lots of Spanish-Filipinos live in Spain. Like Enrique Iglesias' mother. Everyone in Spain knows her. I don't find her attractive, and I don't think she can pass as white
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/XIII_Prix_Di%C3%A1logo_-_Ceremonia_de_entrega_%2826929489404%29_%28cropped %29.jpg

But the funny thing is, most of her family is still in the Philippines and they look much whiter than her

her sister (Enrique's aunt) in the Philippines looks very different. I saw her in a mall in the Philippines and I thought she was a foreigner, until I heard her speaking Tagalog
https://i.ibb.co/3YST7Sx/52898389-10155851185877687-7662596980371095552-n.jpg

This is her daughter (Enrique's cousin). The husband is also Filipino, but from another Spanish-descended family
https://i.ibb.co/M2HyBQG/12377591-10208530663161077-8166712416995269716-o.jpg

Here's another cousin in the Philippines
https://i.ibb.co/2hybtxX/16711817-10154460904589576-1330099422233022513-n.jpg

The father in this family is a cousin of Enrique's mother. The wife is from another Filipino family of Spanish-descent
https://i.ibb.co/jW96TpM/presss.jpg

The woman in this family is another cousin of his. The husband is from another Filipino family of Spanish-descent. I don't think this family can pass as white
https://i.ibb.co/ZG1vLLS/Clipboard02.jpg

Many Spanish-Filipinos also moved to Australia, because it's close to the Philippines and they can go back and forth between the two countries easily. This guy was born in the Philippines and all 4 of his grandparents were Filipinos, and several generations further back too were born in the Philippines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DfYEwgI_pc
I can see a little native admixture in him, but he mostly passes as white.

[Lucas]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Angola

As a former overseas territory of Portugal until 1975, Angola possesses a Portuguese population of over 200,000, a number that has been growing from 2000 onwards, because of Angola's growing demand for qualified human resources. Currently, over 300,000 Angolans are white, 1 million Angolans are mixed race (black and white) and 50,000 Angolans are from China, which accounts for 1.35 million people. In 1974, white Angolans made up a population of 330,000 to 350,000 people in an overall population of 6.3 million Angolans at that time. The only reliable source on these numbers is Gerald Bender & Stanley Yoder, Whites in Angola on the Eve of Independence: The Politics of Numbers, Africa Today, 21 (4) 1974, pp. 23 – 37. Today, many Angolans who are not ethnic Portuguese can claim Portuguese nationality under Portuguese law. Estimates on the overall population are given in O País</ref>[2][3][4] Besides the Portuguese, significant numbers of people from other European and from diverse Latin American countries (especially Brazil) can be found. From the 2000s, many Chinese have settled and started up small businesses, while at least as many have come as workers for large enterprises (construction or other). Observers claim that the Chinese community in Angola might include as many as 300,000 persons at the end of 2010, but reliable statistics are not at this stage available.[5] In 1974/75, over 25,000 Cuban soldiers arrived in Angola to help the MPLA forces at the beginning of the Angolan Civil War. Once this was over, a massive development cooperation in the field of health and education brought in numerous civil personnel from Cuba. However, only a very small percentage of all these people has remained in Angola, either for personal reasons (intermarriage) or as professionals (e.g., medical doctors).

[GaneshD'Souza]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Angola

As a former overseas territory of Portugal until 1975, Angola possesses a Portuguese population of over 200,000, a number that has been growing from 2000 onwards, because of Angola's growing demand for qualified human resources. Currently, over 300,000 Angolans are white, 1 million Angolans are mixed race (black and white) and 50,000 Angolans are from China, which accounts for 1.35 million people. In 1974, white Angolans made up a population of 330,000 to 350,000 people in an overall population of 6.3 million Angolans at that time. The only reliable source on these numbers is Gerald Bender & Stanley Yoder, Whites in Angola on the Eve of Independence: The Politics of Numbers, Africa Today, 21 (4) 1974, pp. 23 – 37. Today, many Angolans who are not ethnic Portuguese can claim Portuguese nationality under Portuguese law. Estimates on the overall population are given in O País</ref>[2][3][4] Besides the Portuguese, significant numbers of people from other European and from diverse Latin American countries (especially Brazil) can be found. From the 2000s, many Chinese have settled and started up small businesses, while at least as many have come as workers for large enterprises (construction or other). Observers claim that the Chinese community in Angola might include as many as 300,000 persons at the end of 2010, but reliable statistics are not at this stage available.[5] In 1974/75, over 25,000 Cuban soldiers arrived in Angola to help the MPLA forces at the beginning of the Angolan Civil War. Once this was over, a massive development cooperation in the field of health and education brought in numerous civil personnel from Cuba. However, only a very small percentage of all these people has remained in Angola, either for personal reasons (intermarriage) or as professionals (e.g., medical doctors).

Angola may have a larger white population, but they're mostly expats. We're talking about Angolans with several generations of family from Angola.

The Philippines also has lots of expats, especially Americans, some Australians, Germans etc. Remember that the Philippines was a colony of the US right after it was a colony of Spain. Many Americans married into establish Spanish families in the Philippines, which kept the white population growing even decades after the Philippines was no longer part of Spain.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Angola may have a larger white population, but they're mostly expats. We're talking about Angolans with several generations of family from Angola.

The Philippines also has lots of expats, especially Americans, some Australians, Germans etc. Remember that the Philippines was a colony of the US right after it was a colony of Spain. Many Americans married into establish Spanish families in the Philippines, which kept the white population growing even decades after the Philippines was no longer part of Spain.

Angola has 1 million people that are literally half-European (according to Lukasz source). I am not super familiar with the Philippines but I doubt it has one million people scoring at least 50% European judging by the autosomal results you showed. Fully Spanish families must be extremely rare to be witnessed whereas Angolans of fully Portuguese descent are a visible minority all across the territory.

[Maguzanci]

The mestizos intermarry with the indigenous population with no problem whatsoever. Bare in mind that Angola in the 50's had a population of 5 million inhabitants and it is estimated that by the end of this century it will have a population of 200 million inhabitants. European genomes likely will be diluted and spread out, it will not be uncommon for Angolans to score at least 1% European.

Shit... 200 million by the end of this century? I don't think Angola can sustained such a large population. Would many of them tried to migrate to the West like US, Europe, Canada, etc? Are Westerners including Portuguese people terrified about the influx of shitloads of Angolans and other Africans in the future due to overpopulation?

I see. That would make Angolans have similar amount of Euro admix as Filipinos in the future as there European genes become more widespread from mixing with Mestizos and part Mestizos.

[GaneshD'Souza]

Angola has 1 million people that are literally half-European (according to Lukasz source). I am not super familiar with the Philippines but I doubt it has one million people scoring at least 50% European judging by the autosomal results you showed. Fully Spanish families must be extremely rare to be witnessed whereas Angolans of fully Portuguese descent are a visible minority all across the territory.

Biracial doesn't mean they're literally half and half. In a population that is mostly 100% Subsaharan African, biracial could mean people who are visibly mixed with some European. That's what mestizo means in the Philippines. They don't have to be literally half. It's self-classification after all, by the census. People might choose to identify as biracial even if their percent of European isn't much. We don't have questions about race on the Philippine census. We don't really have enough info about either groups to say who has more European.

Also, I've only posted 23andme results of Filipinos who come from 4 Filipino grandparents. If I lowered the bar to anyone from the Philippines, the number of mestizos could be much more because many Spanish-Filipinos have grandparents born in Spain, many others Filipinos have an American grandparent as well. I think there are more white expats in Angola, who came there for business opportunities, but multi-general white Angolans? I'm not sure. The Philippines has a higher GDP per capita than Angola, so expats are coming all the time, but I'm not counting white expats in the Philippines as Filipinos.

[GaneshD'Souza]

And the terms we use may be different, which makes it hard to compare the two.

For example, this girl may be considered "biracial" if she were in Angola. But to Filipinos, she's just a regular Filipina. She doesn't have enough European to justify her being biracial, but who knows, in Angola, she might be considered as such
https://i.redd.it/4zt4h4e7u1v41.png

These girls also don't have enough European to be considered biracial, but I think if they were in Angola, they might even be considered white.
https://i.redd.it/59qwo4aod0t41.png
https://i.redd.it/ql11id0chpu41.jpg
https://i.redd.it/k3fb15vrq4t41.jpg
^ I think it's funny that the last one has a tiny bit of Angolan. How ironic.

In the Philippines, they would all three be considered mestizas, even though they're not even close to half European. So that's why I have problems with census records, which ask people to self-identify themselves. Even old census records in the Philippines simply classified the majority of the population as "brown" as if that means anything. Most Latinos are also brown but they're still mestizos.

[Maguzanci]

All the full Filipinos from 23andme's subreddit who posted a photo with their results:

1.
https://i.redd.it/4aaynnci42141.jpg

2.
https://i.redd.it/31jl34h1u9l41.jpg

3.
https://i.redd.it/o1wncnr9ibn41.jpg

4.
https://i.redd.it/57r6ywchzcm41.png

5.
https://i.redd.it/y7rnekdyewg41.png

6.
https://i.redd.it/12cvg1dguih41.jpg

7.
https://i.redd.it/42e1tvhnlee41.png

9.
https://i.redd.it/dkt8ho3l39e41.jpg

10.
https://i.redd.it/6ov1xoojvva41.png

11.
https://i.redd.it/u8zpoky899641.jpg

12.
https://i.redd.it/1unaqaiskr541.jpg

13.
https://i.imgur.com/OYkYXiS.jpg

14.
https://i.redd.it/7jjgoo2l7xl41.jpg

15.
https://i.redd.it/ukw53jsxtvq21.png

16.
https://i.redd.it/jruyblbxlnd41.jpg

17.
https://i.redd.it/a21jdc18edl41.png

18.
https://i.redd.it/875n04t2qax31.jpg

19.
https://i.redd.it/59qwo4aod0t41.png

20.
https://i.redd.it/a3u0kez733u41.jpg

21.
https://i.redd.it/ql11id0chpu41.jpg

23.
https://i.redd.it/4zt4h4e7u1v41.png

24.
https://i.redd.it/k3fb15vrq4t41.jpg

25.
https://i.redd.it/nuh8n100ku251.jpg

Do you have results of Muslim Filipinos like Tausug, Maranao or those from Zamboanga or Surigao? Do they score signifivant South Asian or Arab/West Asian admix unlike most Filipinos?

[GaneshD'Souza]

Do you have results of Muslim Filipinos like Tausug, Maranao or those from Zamboanga or Surigao? Do they score signifivant South Asian or Arab/West Asian admix unlike most Filipinos?

I haven't seen any Moro Filipino post their results. Most of them are poor. But this girl's family is from Zamboanga and they speak Chavacano (Spanish creole)
https://i.redd.it/ql11id0chpu41.jpg

Even being in the Muslim part of the Philippines, for some reason Zamboanga and Basilan had a lot of mestizos.

[Maguzanci]

I haven't seen any Moro Filipino post their results. Most of them are poor. But this girl's family is from Zamboanga and they speak Chavacano (Spanish creole)
https://i.redd.it/ql11id0chpu41.jpg

Even being in the Muslim part of the Philippines, for some reason Zamboanga and Basilan had a lot of mestizos.

That sucks. I presumed that Moros will be genetically different from most Filipinos since they likely would have Indian and West Asian admix due to spread of Islam and closer proximity to Indonesia/Malaysia. Also its the only area of the country the Spaniards cannot subjugated?

Does Zamboanga and Basilan have higher amounts of Christians than other Muslim areas? I also have seen two very atypical Filipino results (not on 23andme but Gedmatch) who score significant South Asian/Indian but very little to no Euro. I wonder which part of the country are they from. I want to post their results but it is hard as im on my phone.

[GaneshD'Souza]

That sucks. I presumed that Moros will be genetically different from most Filipinos since they likely would have Indian and West Asian admix due to spread of Islam and closer proximity to Indonesia/Malaysia. Also its the only area of the country the Spaniards cannot subjugated?

Does Zamboanga and Basilan have higher amounts of Christians than other Muslim areas? I also have seen two very atypical Filipino results (not on 23andme but Gedmatch) who score significant South Asian/Indian but very little to no Euro. I wonder which part of the country are they from. I want to post their results but it is hard as im on my phone.

Zamboanga and Basilan are Christian cities surrounded by Muslims. I see South Asian in almost all Filipinos' results. It doesn't matter where they come from. I would expect other Southeast Asians to have a lot more South Asian than Filipinos, but I don't find that to be the case. They usually have the same amount as Filipinos, and oftentimes even less South Asian than Filipinos

[Maguzanci]

Zamboanga and Basilan are Christian cities surrounded by Muslims. I see South Asian in almost all Filipinos' results. It doesn't matter where they come from. I would expect other Southeast Asians to have a lot more South Asian than Filipinos, but I don't find that to be the case. They usually have the same amount as Filipinos, and oftentimes even less South Asian than Filipinos

Is this from 23andme? What Southeast Asian nationalities are these? The reason they might have the same or less South Asian is because that their SE Asian subcategory like Thai, Khmer, Malay might already have ancient South Asian alleles, thats why they might not show much as most of their Indian admix might be rather ancient than recent. Gedmatch calcs is much better at showing South Asian ancesty

[GaneshD'Souza]

Is this from 23andme? What Southeast Asian nationalities are these? The reason they might have the same or less South Asian is because that their SE Asian subcategory like Thai, Khmer, Malay might already have ancient South Asian alleles, thats why they might not show much as most of their Indian admix might be rather ancient than recent. Gedmatch calcs is much better at showing South Asian ancesty

Well the same could be said for the "Filipino" category on 23andme. It might already be mixed with old European/Mexican admixture from the 15 and 1600s. Older Indian and Chinese admixture might also be in the Filipino category. I noticed Filipinos' other ancestries dropped a little when the "Filipino" category was created.

[Maguzanci]

Well the same could be said for the "Filipino" category on 23andme. It might already be mixed with old European/Mexican admixture from the 15 and 1600s. Older Indian and Chinese admixture might also be in the Filipino category. I noticed Filipinos' other ancestries dropped a little when the "Filipino" category was created.

True. But if the Filipino category is based on Igorot and other isolated Austronesian tribes, it might not have European or Hispanic admixture.

[GaneshD'Souza]

True. But if the Filipino category is based on Igorot and other isolated Austronesian tribes, it might not have European or Hispanic admixture.

I don't know about that. Do we even know who their sample is? I feel like it's just random Filipinos. They don't have info about their sample