Breivik had plastic surgery to look ‘Aryan’

[Pallantides]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/reports-breivik-had-plastic-surgery-look-aryan-142721644.html

The head of Norway's intelligence agency Janne Kristianse that she believes accused terrorist Anders Breivik received plastic surgery in order to look more "Aryan."
"You do not have that Aryan look naturally in Norway," she said in an interview with the Sunday Times (article behind paywall). "Hitler would have had him on posters. He has the perfect, classic Aryan face. He must have had a facelift."
An unnamed friend of Breivik's told the Telegraph he bragged about having a nose job at a party when he was only 21 years old.
"I remember we were at a party and he told me he had had his nose and chin operated on by a plastic surgeon in America," the friend said. "It was a bit weird, but he was hanging around at that time with a group of people obsessed by their bodies."
Sources told the Telegraph Breivik's vanity continues in his solitary confinement. He refused to have a mugshot taken and wears a red Lacoste sweater for his outings to the court house, after officials told him he couldn't wear a military uniform.
Breivik, a white supremacist, railed against Muslims and multiculturalism in his 1,500 page manifesto, which also extensively quoted the Unabomber. He was a member of the Norwegian Defence League, an offshoot of a far-right English group that opposes Islam.

[The Ripper]

Breivik, a white supremacist

Is he though?

[Neanderthal]

It wouldn't surprise me, it looks that he dyied or bleached his hair too IMO.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iZw32aMEn3M/TjPebyOB9TI/AAAAAAAAi_g/RTwSS9LTA-4/s1600/andersbehring23jul11.jpg

[StonyArabia]

The guy was moron from the get go!

[Odoacer]

"You do not have that Aryan look naturally in Norway,"

Is that so ... ? :icon_ask:

[Neanderthal]

Is that so ... ? :icon_ask:

What about...

http://www.burzum.org/img/gallery03/big/photo10.jpg

Nevermind, he isn't Norwegian because he burnt a bunch of wooden stakes.:p

[Pallantides]

Is that so ... ? :icon_ask:

Her statment is accurate.


Breivik don't really look "Aryan" imo.

[Aces High]

I imagine this is all part of the disinformation that will be leaked through the mass media to rubbish him and belittle him.

This guy did something that cant be undone in terms of breaking new ground,albeit in an extreme and murderous way.

He didnt go on a killing spree in some immigrant ghetto....he set out to cull the next generation of liberal politicians en masse.
He then gave himself up alive not as a coward but to eventually have a platform to carry on his "work" through writings or even taped interviews.

He may have planted something that will grow.It will be interesting to see how things work out and how he is percieved ten years from now.

[Curtis24]

Breivik will never be seen as a hero. But in the future people will be able to look back and be honest about how many men were alienated and went crazy because of it.

[Aces High]

I dont think he will be seen as a hero but i think he has taken things to another level.
Remember in the early 70's when the first jets got hijacked and it was all amateurish and improvised.....well i think in a few years thats how he will be seen.
I have a hunch he is the forerunner of something new.We have had terrorists before of in the form of the Bader-Meinhoffs and the Italian red brigades etc and the IRA and ETA....but this guy is something very radical and new....this guy is a racial revoloutionary and not a political revolutionary.
He didnt want to promote some political agenda he wants to preserve his race and culture.By targeting and eliminating the cause of the threat.
He set out to exterminate a whole strata of future politicians......this fucker was thinking way outside the box.

[Curtis24]

Well, he was different in that he targeted the politicians supporting immigration rather than the immigrants themselves. So I agree that in the future, others will do the same thing.

[Aces High]

He was different also that he isnt looking east towards the invader....he looked inwards at the cause of the invasion.

In a sense he isnt trying to stop a tank by firing a rocket at it as it rumbles towards him....he goes looking for the tank designer to kill him before the tank makes it to the drawing board.

[Blood Trinity]

Agree with Aces High. Thought I might throw in some food for thought, IMO the best article yet on this whole affair.

http://hammerandanvilmyblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/the-breivik-action-the-first-archeofuturist-victory-%C2%A9/

[Curtis24]

You know, while Breivik's action was unique, I doubt it will lead to a revolution. For instance, the 9/11 attacks were also conceptually clever - destroying the heart of American business, and thus making the statement about who their real enemy was. Yet, the Islamists barely accomplished any of their goals.

The bottom line of this: there just isn't enough popular support or manpower for nationalism. This will be true no matter how bad conditions become. We human beings hold onto the values we internalized while small tots, even if they lead us straight down into hell. 6000 years of human history is testament to this.

I'm sure there will be other Breiviks. A certain, but small, portion of white men hvae become totally alienated and will react accordingly. But the majority of young Europeans simply believe too strongly in liberalism to abandon it. They will continue to believe in it even as conditions become progressively worse, they see their opportunities vanish, and quality of life plummet. The Internet will obviously help them cope, as will promiscuous sex and prescription medication.

EDIT: Now, the key to a real revolution is for those who have children, to indoctrinate their children with the right values. If this happens, then there will be a white revolution... but only in 20 years time.

[Jon Snow]

NGXxckUKVAs

[Barreldriver]

He was different also that he isnt looking east towards the invader....he looked inwards at the cause of the invasion.

In a sense he isnt trying to stop a tank by firing a rocket at it as it rumbles towards him....he goes looking for the tank designer to kill him before the tank makes it to the drawing board.

69 unarmed youths were the "tank designers"? :confused:

[Hess]

I am not sure how the white nationalist cooks are defining "Aryan" nowadays, but if Aryan means pure Nordid than I would say Denmark is more Aryan than Norway.

[Osweo]

LoL, did he get his money back? Looks like some sort of fucking Chuvash to me... Anyone got the 'before' photos?

[Aces High]

69 unarmed youths were the "tank designers"? :confused:

You are the guy who cant get in the army am i right.....?....:rolleyes:

[Hevneren]

I don't know why this prick is being mentioned by name and having it's picture posted. It has done nothing to deserve recognition, and by posting this vermin's face and name you're all doing it a favour, since this is what it wanted in the first place.

I find it reprehensible how anyone can find some way to justify what this piece of shit did. Those who were killed were mostly Norwegians, and most of them were in their teens and twenties. These were people who were dedicated to our democratic principles. They were young people who wanted to make a difference, and unlike the vast majority of young people they actually cared about their country's future and were interested in other things than stupid reality shows. They wanted to discuss social and political issues, rather than being apathetic. These young people did nothing wrong, and the crime committed against them was the most vile and cowardly in our nation's history.

[Curtis24]

I don't know why this prick is being mentioned by name and having it's picture posted. It has done nothing to deserve recognition, and by posting this vermin's face and name you're all doing it a favour, since this is what it wanted in the first place.

I find it reprehensible how anyone can find some way to justify what this piece of shit did. Those who were killed were mostly Norwegians, and most of them were in their teens and twenties. These were people who were dedicated to our democratic principles. They were young people who wanted to make a difference, and unlike the vast majority of young people they actually cared about their country's future and were interested in other things than stupid reality shows. They wanted to discuss social and political issues, rather than being apathetic. These young people did nothing wrong, and the crime committed against them was the most vile and cowardly in our nation's history.

Quite frankly, I too am surprised how many people seem optimistic about Breivik's atrocity.

[Aces High]

They were young people who wanted to make a difference,

All cultural marxists want to make a difference.....the problem is of course that the difference they want to make is irreversible for the majority.
Whilst they of course eventualy take office and live off limits to reality in their walled affluent guarded communities.

Maybe next year these young rad kids would like to hold their annual meeting not in some island hideaway on a Norwegian lake but maybe in Deptford on the lawns of the Peppys estate or some Parisian or Berlin ghetto....where they can experience the benefits of cultural marxism first hand. ;)

[Barreldriver]

You are the guy who cant get in the army am i right.....?....:rolleyes:

I'm the guy who had to suspend ROTC participation because of two factors 1. lack of Financial Aid (the ROTC made my tuition sky rocket, had I stayed in the program I would not have been able to afford any books for the semester) and 2. I am at this moment recovering from a busted hand that required surgery. btw Ad hominem is a foolish fallacy and my participation in anything has nothing to do with the fact that Breivik murdered unarmed children.

[Aces High]

Breivik murdered unarmed children.

Did anyone say otherwise...?
What is being discussed is something else...your obvious American observation has been duly noted though...well done....geee have a nice day now.

[Barreldriver]

Did anyone say otherwise...?
What is being discussed is something else...your obvious American observation has been duly noted though...well done....geee have a nice day now.

You mentioned giving merit to Breivik with the comparison that he targeted the "tank designers before a tank gets fielded as opposed to the tank", well if Breivik targeted the "tank designer" and Breivik killed children a solution to premise would be that one is saying that those children were rightfully killed otherwise children would not have been among the count of "tank designers". I disagree with praising the man on any count because of that.

Got quite some attitude there ye do.

[Hevneren]

All cultural marxists want to make a difference.....the problem is of course that the difference they want to make is irreversible for the majority.
Whilst they of course eventualy take office and live off limits to reality in their walled affluent guarded communities.

Maybe next year these young rad kids would like to hold their annual meeting not in some island hideaway on a Norwegian lake but maybe in Deptford on the lawns of the Peppys estate or some Parisian or Berlin ghetto....where they can experience the benefits of cultural marxism first hand. ;)

Or we could place all the sub-human mass murdering scum on an island and watch them kill each other like rabid animals, and build a memorial to those who lost their lives to scum like that.

[Loki]

Breivik don't really look "Aryan" imo.

Yes, he doesn't really look like a Pakistani.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Or we could place all the sub-human mass murdering scum on an island and watch them kill each other like rabid animals, and build a memorial to those who lost their lives to scum like that.

This guy isn't really a 'mass murderer' like Jared Loughner (a classical 'spree killer') or Jack the Ripper (a classical 'serial killer'). He's a political assassin, who wanted to eliminate those who were being groomed as leaders of a political movement which he saw as extremist and dangerous to his country. Not motivated by getting off on killing random people.

[Aces High]

Or we could place all the sub-human mass murdering scum on an island and watch them kill each other like rabid animals, and build a memorial to those who lost their lives to scum like that.

You arent being rational...we are talking about the effects his actions may have on other people in the future.Wailing on about some sort of scenario where all the killers are let loose to kill each other has no basis in reality or to what this guy did.You are just repeating platitudes that you have seen in the mass media.

Sit in the corner...eat some sugar and chill out.

[Aces High]

You mentioned giving merit to Breivik

No i didnt....learn to read.

[Barreldriver]

No i didnt....learn to read.

If you weren't then why put effort in trying to demonstrate a rationale behind his attacks?

[Barreldriver]

He's a political assassin, who wanted to eliminate those who were being groomed as leaders of a political movement which he saw as extremist and dangerous to his country.

I'd hardly consider a teen attending a politically sponsored camp a worthy political target, young minds can change had those kids been spared they could have developed beliefs contrary to what the Labour Party promotes, that's like if I as an early teen were to have been killed at a Christian Camp by an anit-Christian extremist, just because I went to a certain summer camp as a kid does not mean my mind is forever made up.

[Agrippa]

Quite frankly, I too am surprised how many people seem optimistic about Breivik's atrocity.

That's because this jerk is someone who finally did something, as bad as it was.

What kind of progress did all the others achieve in all those years, when our cities and countries were flooded with non-integrable foreign elements, the birth rates go down, the politicians get even more corrupt, the social situation worse for too many and the mainstream became a headless, manipulated mass, full of shit from the ideological enemies of a true Europe, a true community and a better future of mankind?

What did they do? What did they change?

Nothing!

Even the most peaceful and careful activities of the "extreme right" were shown as some sort of crime, like if they were trampling on small, sweet Jewish kids all the time, just by saying that Europeans lose ground, Europeans should care for their true, including biological and cultural, interests - that we being exploited by a false and hypocritical system.

You ask why some people see this psycho in a positive light? I can tell you the reason: Desperation!

And probably the same desperation, if he wasn't a full scale psycho himself, led Breivik to do what he did.

I still think it was completely wrong, because he just gave our enemies even more propaganda ammunition they can use against the defenders of the true Europe, true community and a better future, but nevertheless - and despite his affiliations with the Zionists and their scholars, being a freemason and all, I still understand where he is coming from and I can't say I have just disrespect for him, because I sometimes respect consequent people more, even if they do the wrong or a hostile thing, than those inconsequent, indifferent fuckers which are just by-products, of no interest for mankind, just filling material here and there, which will NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING nor ACHIEVE ANYTHING of significance.

Which can't even think anything consequently to the end!

He did the wrong thing, the absolutely wrong thing, I won't defend his concrete actions, but his consequence and attitude was right to the point!

He just should have taken all his energy and consequence, doing something which is more humane and rational, but still as or even much more effective.

But for his defence: I thought about what that could have been, and while I have some ideas, I'm still not sure about it...

[Aces High]

If you weren't then why put effort in trying to demonstrate a rationale behind his attacks?

So to discuss anything like this is to automatically assume one is trying to justify his actions.
We discuss it because we may find other viewpoints and learn something new other than what we see on tha mass media......and seeing how this is a European preservation forum and the Norwegian guy who carried out the killings considers himself a European preservationist i think some people on here might have some views and insights on the matter.
Now tucked away in some backwater in bumfuck USA i understand this is some random killing that has nothing to do with you but to us Europeans it is very real.....and the reasoning why he carried out the attacks is something that most people here in Europe can identify with as we live it on a day to day basis.

Sorry if you think its a trifle dull that some of us would like to discuss this and just pigeon hole him as some sort of helter skelter spree killer instead of delving a little deeper into it.

So just wrap it all up for us if you can in bitesize fox news sized chunks so we can all forget about it and carry on non the wiser.

[Hevneren]

This guy isn't really a 'mass murderer' like Jared Loughner (a classical 'spree killer') or Jack the Ripper (a classical 'serial killer'). He's a political assassin, who wanted to eliminate those who were being groomed as leaders of a political movement which he saw as extremist and dangerous to his country. Not motivated by getting off on killing random people.

It's a lowly, cowardly mass murderer. To call this piece of shit a "political assassin", is to elevate it's cowardly murder of unarmed teenagers to something more than it was.

By the way, those young people weren't "groomed", and nobody gives a shit about what this bottom-feeding scum thinks.

[Hevneren]

You arent being rational...we are talking about the effects his actions may have on other people in the future.Wailing on about some sort of scenario where all the killers are let loose to kill each other has no basis in reality or to what this guy did.You are just repeating platitudes that you have seen in the mass media.

Sit in the corner...eat some sugar and chill out.

I'm only going to write this once, so please pay attention. Don't you ever talk down to me. Are we clear?

As for the rest of your post, I think I know just a little bit more about this than some random Englishman on an Internet forum, since I live in Norway. Besides, I really don't appreciate some Englishman telling me what I should or shouldn't think, about a mass murder that happened in my country and against my people.

[Agrippa]

It's a lowly, cowardly mass murderer. To call this piece of shit a "political assassin", is to elevate it's cowardly murder of unarmed teenagers to something more than it was.

By the way, those young people weren't "groomed", and nobody gives a shit about what this bottom-feeding scum thinks.

Just a simple question: Where do you see the difference between Breivik and an US or British bomber, probably even of German descent, using firebombs against civilians in cities like Dresden, women, children, refugees. Where they "more brave" than him, by throwing bombs from the sky?

At least he had the balls to go into it and risking his life, ruining his life, giving away his freedom, being hated by practically all (even myself, because he didn't helped the cause and killed - largely - innocents for nothing) other people and killing those which are at least in one way or another part of the political system, killing them fast and directly - not just some civilians trying to shelter from war being burned alive...

Seriously, just think about what war means, what it always meant, and what so called "heros" did to other people on various occasions. War is never nice, war is never fair - forget that.

So the real question one has to raise, in this respect if talking about his actions, is whether it was justified - in his own head at least - to speak about a war going on.

And if looking at what happens to the European people all around the world, how we are going down the drain and some people and THEIR HELPERS PLUS MENIALS do it on purpose, try to bring US ALL DOWN, with more losses and greater risks than in MOST EUROPEAN WARS if talking about our cultural and biological futures - talking about a warlike situation is not that far fetched to me.

Yet again, his actions were wrong, because they targeted individuals which were among the least guilty among the HELPERS AND MENIALS of the Plutocracy, and because the effect was absolutely negative.

Also, violence should be in any case, war or not war, personal or collective disputes, the very last option, when all other options being considered. Now I think he was wrong on that too.

But then again, we should discuss his real failures in a more objective way, rather than just swallowing the emotionalised debate of those media channels, which are the corrupted arm of the Plutocratic Oligarchy, the desastrous Liberalist and Cultural Marxist poison makers, the spreaders of this memetic viruses.

[Hevneren]

I still think it was completely wrong, because he just gave our enemies even more propaganda ammunition they can use against the defenders of the true Europe, true community and a better future, but nevertheless - and despite his affiliations with the Zionists and their scholars, being a freemason and all, I still understand where he is coming from and I can't say I have just disrespect for him, because I sometimes respect consequent people more, even if they do the wrong or a hostile thing, than those inconsequent, indifferent fuckers which are just by-products, of no interest for mankind, just filling material here and there, which will NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING nor ACHIEVE ANYTHING of significance.

Yes, the main concern here is the propaganda war, and not the 77 people who were brutally murdered, and the families who'll never see their loved ones again. Some young teens are still hospitalised, and one was shot three times and is trying to get her life back.

I care more for my people, than I do for whatever ideological bullshit some foreigners find important to them, and while you foreigners mentally masturbate to the worst tragedy in my nation's history since 1944, we as Norwegians want to recover from this while remembering those who we lost. The rest of the world, who supports this madness or doesn't care about us, can go fuck itself.

[Agrippa]

Yes, the main concern here is the propaganda war, and not the 77 people who were brutally murdered, and the families who'll never see their loved ones again. Some young teens are still hospitalised, and one was shot three times and is trying to get her life back.

That's why I don't want wars and violence, because there are always victims, and if you can prevent it, prevent it.

But there are sometimes greater matters at stake, than just some individuals, as hard as this might sound to you or others. Because it might be about the fate of milllions, of generations to come, about the future of mankind even!


I care more for my people, than I do for whatever ideological bullshit some foreigners find important to them

You forget that the Norwegian people you know, and most likely love, are already a thing of the past, if looking at the demographic developments.

You can't save that world any longer, because it is lost already and the only thing you can try is to fight for it coming back AFTER the generations to come, when the full catastrophy will be truly visible and the Norwegian society, like most other European nations, will go down the drain this or that way, in this awful vicious circle the Neoliberals, this freak born out of a Liberalcapitalist and Cultural Marxist mix, caused.

What can you say about people, which care less for their own and their group's future, than for achieving absolute Cultural Marxism, radical Feminism, the love of the foreign before the own and all those nice things, resulting in a degraded society?


and while you foreigners mentally masturbate to the worst tragedy in my nation's history since 1944, we as Norwegians want to recover from this while remember those who we lost.

I completely understand you. It is similar to what happens if a nation being attacked in a war by a side which is actually right, more right than they are, but still they being attacked and feel threatened collectively - people want to feel connected, feel together - that is part of the community and collective spirit, like all this Patriotism without a sound ideological base is too.
I understand that, I see where it is coming from and why so many people being easily affected by it, without thinking twice, but nevertheless, that kind of emotions can be, but must not be right.


The rest of the world, who supports this madness or doesn't care about us, can go fuck itself.

First of all, to make that clear:
- I don't support this madness insofar, as what Breivik did, in a concrete manner, was wrong
- and I care about our fellow Norwegian people, which are Europeans and humans, have a nice and interesting culture and so on.

Nevertheless, when I see something wrong and unlogical, irrational and bad going on, and if it is just a wrong assessment of a situation or action, I make up my mind and try to correct it.

Now I'm not perfect too and I know that, so I might be wrong, but I still think, even if I'm wrong sometimes, that my ideas might be interesting or important sometimes, because some people seem to be blind on one eye, to describe it that way, so they must be shown, or described, what you can see with the other, for that they can at least consider it...

[o__o]

Breivik is a douche.

[Barreldriver]

So to discuss anything like this is to automatically assume one is trying to justify his actions.
We discuss it because we may find other viewpoints and learn something new other than what we see on tha mass media......and seeing how this is a European preservation forum and the Norwegian guy who carried out the killings considers himself a European preservationist i think some people on here might have some views and insights on the matter.

There's a fine line here though, your vehement responses seem to indicate a sympathy with Breivik's particular method. If this is false then why get so defensive to the point of insult?



Now tucked away in some backwater in bumfuck USA i understand this is some random killing that has nothing to do with you but to us Europeans it is very real.....and the reasoning why he carried out the attacks is something that most people here in Europe can identify with as we live it on a day to day basis.

Reasons be reasons, execution be a whole different matter. Would you say there would have been a better approach? Perhaps targeting just officials without bringing in children with still malleable minds?


Sorry if you think its a trifle dull that some of us would like to discuss this and just pigeon hole him as some sort of helter skelter spree killer instead of delving a little deeper into it.

I don't find the matter dull, I find it strange that one need be so emotional to the point of personal insult when confronted about rationalizing Breivik's particular action. It suggests something more in regards to yourself.


So just wrap it all up for us if you can in bitesize fox news sized chunks so we can all forget about it and carry on non the wiser.

:coffee:

[Hevneren]

Just a simple question: Where do you see the difference between Breivik and an US or British bomber using firebombs against civilians in cities like Dresden, women, children, refugees.

What the hell does this have to do with anything?


At least he had the balls to go into it and risking his life, ruining his life, giving away his freedom, being hated by practically all (even myself, because he didn't helped the cause and killed innocents for nothing) other people and killing those which are at least in one way or another part of the political system, killing them fast and directly - not just some civilians trying to shelter from war being burned alive...

I don't know whether I should pity you or be disgusted by you, for implying that a cowardly mass murderer armed to the teeth shooting down innocent unarmed teenagers, is somehow brave! I have to ask you whether you have no morals at all?

And these teens were "a part of the political system"? Are you out of your mind? What power did these kids have? I'm really sick of foreigners turning my country's tragedy into a tool for their sick fantasies. Find something else to focus on and mentally masturbate to, and leave my country and people be!


Seriously, just think about what war means, what it always meant, and what so called "heros" did to other people on various occasions. War is never nice, war is never fair - forget that.

I don't call gunning down unarmed teenagers war, I call it cowardly mass murder. Then again, I have some goddamn common decency.


So the real question one has to raise, in this respect if talking about his actions, is whether it was justified - in his own head at least - to speak about a war going on.

No, the real question is why the hell foreigners think they have a right to turn my nation's tragedy into their personal circle jerk session. We want to be left alone. This isn't some game, it's real people who've lost their loved ones. Do you understand? I don't expect you to care, but I expect you to show a minimum of respect and common decency.


And if looking at what happens to the European people all around the world, how we are goind down the drain and some people and THEIR HELPERS PLUS MENIALS do it on purpose, try to bring US ALL DOWN, with more losses and greater risks than in MOST EUROPEAN WARS if talking about our cultural and biological futures - talking about a warlike situation is not that far fetched to me.

This has nothing to do with a lowly, cowardly mass murdering megalomaniac who wanted to become famous.


Yet again, his actions were wrong, because they targeted individuals which were among the least guilty among the HELPERS AND MENIALS of the Plutocracy, and because the effect was negative.

Wrong, they weren't guilty at all. That you consider them even the least bit "guilty" of being killed, tells me a lot about you and your morals.


Also, violence should be in any case, war or not war, personal or collective disputes, the very last option, when all other options being considered. Now I think he was wrong on that too.

Agreed.


But then again, we should should discuss his real failures in a more objective way, rather than just swallowing the emotionalised debate of those media channels, which are the corrupted arm of the Plutocratic Oligarchy, the desastrous Liberalist and Cultural Marxist poison makers, the spreaders of this memetic viruses.

This is about my people, my nation and our sorrow and loss. I really couldn't give a damn about what you label it, but my distaste at how foreigners belittle my nation's worst tragedy since WWII, is quite real and growing stronger with every obnoxiously obtuse comment that I read.

[Hevneren]

You forget that the Norwegian people you know, and most likely love, are already a thing of the past, if looking at the demographic developments.

You can't save that world any longer, because it is lost already and the only thing you can try is to fight for it coming back AFTER the generations to come, when the full catastrophy will be truly visible and the Norwegian society, like most other European nations, will go down the drain this or that way, in this awful vicious circle the Neoliberals, this freak born out of a Liberalcapitalist and Cultural Marxist mix, caused.

What can you say about people, which care less for their own and their group's future, than for achieving absolute Cultural Marxism, radical Feminism, the love of the foreign before the own and all those nice things, resulting in a degraded society?

You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know our society, and you certainly have no idea of what's going on here and what we've been going through since July 22nd. All this BS is testing my patience, and I have a low tolerance for foreigners on Internet forums lecturing me about my country. Instead of lecturing me, you better learn to listen.

[Agrippa]

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

I just tried to put things into a bigger context.


I don't know whether I should pity you or be disgusted by you, for implying that a cowardly mass murderer armed to the teeth shooting down innocent unarmed teenagers, is somehow brave! I have to ask you whether you have no morals at all?

Look, don't you see that if you risk your life, freedom and social status, this is a brave thing to do?

Even building bombs and all the preparations had a "brave" aspect, because he risked his health and life to reach the goal he planned in advance.

I mean there are surely more brave people and actions around, don't doing such crap, but seriously, calling him a coward is just dead wrong either.


And these teens were "a part of the political system"? Are you out of your mind?

Well, first of all there were not just kids there and secondly that is some sort of indoctrination camp.

You should know very well that they raise "small Marxists of the next generation" that way and if you have any doubts, I know MANY TRIALS of right wingers in German lands making up such summer camps, often absolutely peaceful, absolutely non-extreme, with the agreement of both the parents and the children - and those were forbidden, many of those which organised them were brought to prison or at least charged!

So you want to tell me, if the hostile, mind controlling system of the Neoliberals forbids such camps for alternative ideas and political groups, how harmless they are?

They are there to raise the next generation of a political group, to give them a common sense, a community spirit, a group orientation, the security to act for the same goals.

And this system, especially in German speaking lands, forbids such actions for alternative political groups and prosecutes those which want to organise them!

So again, how harmless do you think they are?

And I heard many interviews: This kids were all brainwashed!

When talking about political issues, in every sentence Cultural Marxism came out of their mouth, eyes and ears.


What power did these kids have?

None of real significance I guess, but little one already. They are just part of a larger scheme and system, and I might add, what I said before, the most innocent one - because many being brought into this abomination by their parents or relatives, many being just indoctrinated all their life and most of them did nothing really THAT BAD at least SO FAR.

So while they are part of the problem, for sure they are, they are the least guilty, least important and the most innocent ones, which is one of the reasons why I despise what Breivik did even more.

Nevertheless, you have to be realistic about the issue.


I'm really sick of foreigners turning my country's tragedy into a tool for their sick fantasies. Find something else to focus on and mentally masturbate to, and leave my country and people be!

I didn't made this thread up, I wouldn't have written about it on my own, without others having started, to be honest.

But since I'm interested in what happened and still happens, I read it up, here and elsewhere. And again, like explained above, if I see very ONE SIDED and MANIPULATED perspectives on the issue, I try to bring in another perspective which is important, to bring things back into a more healthy and reasonable balance.


I don't call gunning down unarmed teenagers war, I call it cowardly mass murder. Then again, I have some goddamn common decency.

Mass murder was and is part of war. That's what I wanted to express with my "firebombs on civilians" example.


No, the real question is why the hell foreigners think they have a right to turn my nation's tragedy into their personal circle jerk session. We want to be left alone.

You don't have to read or write here, in this thread.

If you don't like it, just ignore it.

I don't come to your home and talk about that issue if you don't want it. But I want to formulate a more reasonable and objective viewpoint on it here.


This isn't some game, it's real people who've lost their loved ones. Do you understand? I don't expect you to care, but I expect you to show a minimum of respect and common decency.

Actually I do care, because like I said, human sufferings don't let me untouched.

By I'm not here to talk about that, because I think it is self-evident for any half-way normal human being.

Probably Breivik was such a sadist, which had no mercy, felt a sadist joy while doing what he did, I don't know.


This has nothing to do with a lowly, cowardly mass murdering megalomaniac who wanted to become famous.

Probably that was his central theme, probably not.


Wrong, they weren't guilty at all. That you consider them even the least bit "guilty" of being killed, tells me a lot about you and your morals.

I never said that their guilt justified to hurt, yet alone kill them in any comparable way.

That's the difference.

You can be guilty of something bad, which doesn't deserve a hard punishment, if you know what I mean.

If you eat the last part of my cake on my birthday, without permission, you are guilty of doing that, but hardly you deserve death for your crime, if you allow that less serious comment as an explanation... ;)


This is about my people, my nation and our sorrow and loss. I really couldn't give a damn about what you label it, but my distaste at how foreigners belittle my nation's worst tragedy since WWII, is quite real and growing stronger with every obnoxiously obtuse comment that I read.

Probably what you are saying comes from a general anger on how the outside world looks on Norway?

It might be even related to how Norwegians, the peaceful, progressive and nice country, being now related to a maniac who killed children?

I know how you feel, because that is what Germans experienced too, in another form. Being a victim and perpetrator the same time...

Now that's something I can perfectly understand, but probably you are attacking strawmen here, which attitude and arguments are different from what you really mean - or just feel?

[_______]

^ feeling ill reading this :(

[Logan]

Quite a few things ongoing, but the primary problem seems, as always, to be one of economics. Would there be so many here or there, but for their lack of a good economic future within their home country?

This demented person might have been part of a solution, but chose instead to be no better or wiser than a radical Muslim or IRA killer of non-combatants, that all civilized people do condem. Adolf Hitler was disturbed by simular cultural problems, though it was the Jews and not the Muslims who were the weeds in his garden. He had a lot more sense as to how one might affect change than this Norwegian. Valhalla: not a place for likes of a rabid dog.

[rhiannon]

The dude who committed this act of TERRORISM against innocent Norwegians who were fucking TEENAGERS....needs to be...well....

How about drawn and quartered? That's about what he deserves.

I note that some people rationalize what he did. Why anyone would do such a crazy thing is beyond me..:noidea:

I was truly shocked when I found out terrorism had hit Norway, of all places. Norway is sooooooo not full of war-mongering scum the way half the rest of the world is.....

I hope those who lost their loved ones are able to find peace after such a heinous crime.

[The Ripper]

I note that some people rationalize what he did. Why anyone would do such a crazy thing is beyond me..:noidea:

Some people are interested in understanding, instead of being led by their emotions altogether.

[Mordid]

Does he look same after plastic surgery?

[Hess]

If this guy was Black, would you guys still be so interested in rationalizing his actions?

[The Ripper]

If this guy was Black, would you guys still be so interested in rationalizing his actions?

I would still be interested in understanding why.

[Agrippa]

If this guy was Black, would you guys still be so interested in rationalizing his actions?

Sure.

The case of this murderer and his son was quite interesting indeed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks


Born as John Allen Williams, Muhammad joined the Nation of Islam in 1987 and later changed his surname to Muhammad.[1] Drawings by Malvo describe the murders as part of a "jihad" (Arabic for "struggle in the way of God").[2] At Muhammad's trial, the prosecutor claimed that the rampage was part of a plot to kill his ex-wife and regain custody of his children, but the judge ruled that there was insufficient evidence to support this argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allen_Muhammad

[The Ripper]

I have a feeling that ye've struck a cord here. I too wonder if the same rationale would be applied to a non-European.

1) I don't see why we need to pretend to be objective when it comes to Europeans vs. non-Europeans. We are pro-European here.

2) I'm sure there would be a more emotional response from people who share a similar world view to "us," for obvious reasons. But that still doesn't make it a rational response that helps to understand what happened.

[Logan]

I would still be interested in understanding why.

A terrible two's, sociopathic mentality. I quit trying to understand what went on in the mind of Mary Kelly's slaughterer back in 1888.

[Aces High]

I'm only going to write this once, so please pay attention. Don't you ever talk down to me. Are we clear?

As for the rest of your post, I think I know just a little bit more about this than some random Englishman on an Internet forum, since I live in Norway.

1) Im shaking in my boots.

2) Because you are Norwegian doesnt make you privvy to all the facts and information.They dont have a news blackout and keep all the secret information in Norway.
Judging by your infantile posts in reaction to the killings it seems that we outside of Norway can take a more rational and detatched view of what happened.
You shouldnt get all worked up about it...you know its bad for your spots.

[Barreldriver]

1) I don't see why we need to pretend to be objective when it comes to Europeans vs. non-Europeans. We are pro-European here.

I fail to see how I'm pretending, I dislike Islamic terrorists, Latin gang terrorists and Norwegian terrorists all the same, I even dislike certain Confederate bushwhackers that harmed innocents (some Bushwhackers I like alternatively like those who skirmished with Jayhawker's who were legitimate guerrilla combatants), it's all about the method of bringing an idea about.


02) I'm sure there would be a more emotional response from people who share a similar world view to "us," for obvious reasons. But that still doesn't make it a rational response that helps to understand what happened.

One doesn't need to defend Breivik in any way to understand what happened though. (This last not really directed at yourself as I've not read anything by you yet showing sympathy for Breivik, mainly at Aces High's vehement battery which seems to indicate some deeper sympathies with Breivik's method as when one stoops to using personal insults it shows a certain emotional attachment to an issue indicating defense of the action discussed examples being his accusation of me being illiterate and nowt more than an ignorant American rube.)

[Aces High]

Aces High's vehement battery which seems to indicate some deeper sympathies with Breivik's method

Point out my sympathies to Breivik or his methods.

[rhiannon]

Some people are interested in understanding, instead of being led by their emotions altogether.

Understand what? (insert voices in head of ABB here) "Oh gee...I hate those fucking Muslims that keep moving here....and I am mad at my country for letting them in....so I think I will show my anger by going off on a fucking killing spree directed against MY FELLOW NORWEGIANS???????"

Excuse me...there is a BIG FUCKING DISCONNECT in here somewhere.

Maybe the guy had reason to be disgruntled....but disgruntled or not...there is NEVER a justification for KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS. Period!

[Barreldriver]

Point out my sympathies to Breivik or his methods.

Did you not state that he looked inward at the cause of the invasion? This implies, to me, that you agree with the targets that he chose to kill which included children. If you do not agree with that it would have been better to have differentiated between the political officials he targeted and those children he killed.

And did you not earlier speak of him as "breaking new ground" and did you not refer to him as revolutionary?

Your demeanor suggests sympathies otherwise you would not have felt it necessary to personally attack me by making accusations against my literacy with your "learn to read" comment, or you bringing up my inability to participate in military service to date (which was entirely irrelevant to the conversation), or insinuating that I'm not more than an ignorant American rube with your "obvious American opinion" comment.

[Aces High]

Adolf Hitler was disturbed by simular cultural problems, though it was the Jews and not the Muslims who were the weeds in his garden. He had a lot more sense as to how one might affect change

Thats the strange thing,thats what i was getting at by saying he was thinking way outside the box....in totally different terms.
This is the first time that i can think of that someone has turned inwards to his own people or a certain portion of his own people and targeted them.
Now if he turned out to be some sort of mental retard high on lsd then i can understand the outrage at the waste of life due to some reject from society.
This guy wasnt some social reject though,he seems to have quite a high iq and knew and still knows what he is doing.
I think he chose this method because of a certain amount of desperation as Agrippa pointed out.Someone like him with his intelligence and singlemindedness could have gone into politics.....yet he probably knew (as we all do) the cards are stacked against anyone trying to make a stand agaisnt the current regime and their policies.So he chose another path.

[Aces High]

Did you not

Link me the quotes where i said i sympathise with him chumly or stfu.

[The Ripper]

I fail to see how I'm pretending, I dislike Islamic terrorists, Latin gang terrorists and Norwegian terrorists all the same, I even dislike certain Confederate bushwhackers that harmed innocents (some Bushwhackers I like alternatively like those who skirmished with Jayhawker's who were legitimate guerrilla combatants), it's all about the method of bringing an idea about.

I didn't say you were pretending. I'm saying, we [European nationalists / preservationists] don't need to treat these phenomena the same.


One doesn't need to defend Breivik in any way to understand what happened though. (This last not really directed at yourself as I've not read anything by you yet showing sympathy for Breivik, mainly at Aces High's vehement battery which seems to indicate some deeper sympathies with Breivik's method as when one stoops to using personal insults it shows a certain emotional attachment to an issue indicating defense of the action discussed examples being his accusation of me being illiterate and nowt more than an ignorant American rube.)

Well, I haven't seen Aces High show any sympathy for his action, unless cognitively understanding his motive counts as such.



Understand what? (insert voices in head of ABB here) "Oh gee...I hate those fucking Muslims that keep moving here....and I am mad at my country for letting them in....so I think I will show my anger by going off on a fucking killing spree directed against MY FELLOW NORWEGIANS???????"

Excuse me...there is a BIG FUCKING DISCONNECT in here somewhere.

Maybe the guy had reason to be disgruntled....but disgruntled or not...there is NEVER a justification for KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS. Period!

You still don't get it.

[rhiannon]

You still don't get it.

Oh brother. That's really helpful:rolleyes:

'splain, please..

[The Ripper]

Oh brother. That's really helpful:rolleyes:

'splain, please..

I'm not sure what's the use, all has been said several times already.

[Hevneren]

I just tried to put things into a bigger context.

Nonsense.


Look, don't you see that if you risk your life, freedom and social status, this is a brave thing to do?

No, having morals, I don't consider running around heavily armed and murdering unarmed teens who never did you any harm, brave. That bottom-feeding sub-human wouldn't know what bravery was if it stared it in the face. I call sub-humans like that fucking cowards, and righthfully so. Go and masturbate to something else, rather than twist a tragedy beyond recognition, to satisfy some sick sense of honour.


Even building bombs and all the preparations had a "brave" aspect, because he risked his health and life to reach the goal he planned in advance.

The little sub-human bitch was afraid to get itself killed, afraid to go up against armed adults, saying it was afraid to get out of the courtoom, thinking it would get shot, and crying and complaining like the little cowardly bitch it is about being in solitary confinement, comparing it with a fucking concentration camp! I can't even imagine a more sickeningly cowardly, filthy, disgusting, pathetic little sub-human piece of shit!


I mean there are surely more brave people and actions around, don't doing such crap, but seriously, calling him a coward is just dead wrong either.

Those unarmed, innocent teenagers who survived this horror, despite all odds, and still haven't given up on democracy, on freedom and justice are the brave ones!


Well, first of all there were not just kids there and secondly that is some sort of indoctrination camp.

Living in Norway, I really have had it with foreign besserwissers telling me what that camp was or what happened. It wasn't a goddamn "indoctrination camp", anymore than the goddamn boy scouts or YMCA, or some other youth programme. Unlike your country, Germany, Norway isn't used to fascist indoctrination programmes. Don't push your historical baggage onto my country. These kids supported free speech and democracy, and they were interested in social issues. And by the way, the party responsible for the summer camp, was the very same party responsible for fighting indoctrination and fascism, and you can take a bloody guess what country introduced that shit here! Our Labour Party were instrumental in freeing our country from foreign Nazi oppression and fascism.


You should know very well that they raise "small Marxists of the next generation" that way and if you have any doubts, I know MANY TRIALS of right wingers in German lands making up such summer camps, often absolutely peaceful, absolutely non-extreme, with the agreement of both the parents and the children - and those were forbidden, many of those which organised them were brought to prison or at least charged!

1. The kids aren't "Marxists", and neither is the party.

2. Norway isn't Germany, and we fought damn hard not to be Germany for five bloody years! Norway doesn't have Germany's draconian anti-free speech laws, nor do we have the same number of despicable far right extremists.

3. The Labour Party and the summer camp are both legal, and the summer camp has been a tradition for over 50 years.

Really, you need to stop lecturing me about my own goddamn country!


So you want to tell me, if the hostile, mind controlling system of the Neoliberals forbids such camps for alternative ideas and political groups, how harmless they are?

Every single party in Norway is free to hold such summer camps, and in fact the right-wing Progress Party held its summer camp only weeks after the attacks. Again, need I remind you not to lecture me about my country???


They are there to raise the next generation of a political group, to give them a common sense, a community spirit, a group orientation, the security to act for the same goals.

Norway is a free country, and these teenagers were free to join the summer camp to socialise.


And this system, especially in German speaking lands, forbids such actions for alternative political groups and prosecutes those which want to organise them!

Again, Norway isn't Germany. Here, we actually have a spine, and we have free speech and the right to hold as many damn summer camps as we wish.


So again, how harmless do you think they are?

Harmless enough to not get butchered, or get called names while they're being mourned by their families.


And I heard many interviews: This kids were all brainwashed!

When talking about political issues, in every sentence Cultural Marxism came out of their mouth, eyes and ears.

I assume your grasp of the Norwegian language is perfect, yes? I also assume you understand Norwegian culture, Norwegian politics and society? Otherwise, one might think that you are so damn clueless that it's laughable.

Again, stop mirroring Germany's history and conditions onto Norway. We still have a spine and civil rights, you don't. If you persist in making ignorant statements like these, I'll be compelled to keep correcting you until you finally learn. Understood?


None of real significance I guess, but little one already. They are just part of a larger scheme and system, and I might add, what I said before, the most innocent one - because many being brought into this abomination by their parents or relatives, many being just indoctrinated all their life and most of them did nothing really THAT BAD at least SO FAR.

You seem really confused. When someone attends something out of their own volition, because they want to discuss important issues and support democracy and free speech, it's not "indoctrination". Again, this isn't your Nazi Germany, Agrippa. Your history isn't our history. We Norwegians actually fought against your Nazi system, unlike you Germans. Do you understand?


So while they are part of the problem, for sure they are, they are the least guilty, least important and the most innocent ones, which is one of the reasons why I despise what Breivik did even more.

No, people like you and that sub-human, are part of the problem. People who make excuses for what happened, who think mass murdering unarmed kids is brave, and foreigners finding a new tragedy to mentally masturbate to while ignoring the victims and the families, are the problem. These teens who were just socialising and wanted to support our democracy, are not the problem. They are the solution, and my country needs more bright and politically minded young people like them!


Nevertheless, you have to be realistic about the issue.

You are way beyond reality, you are delving into the realm of conspiracy and disaster pornography.


I didn't made this thread up, I wouldn't have written about it on my own, without others having started, to be honest.

But since I'm interested in what happened and still happens, I read it up, here and elsewhere. And again, like explained above, if I see very ONE SIDED and MANIPULATED perspectives on the issue, I try to bring in another perspective which is important, to bring things back into a more healthy and reasonable balance.

We have enough Norwegian "intellectuals" giving their opinions on this issue, we don't need uninformed, ignorant foreigners vomiting out nonsense on Internet forums.


Mass murder was and is part of war. That's what I wanted to express with my "firebombs on civilians" example.

I don't care, as this has nothing to do with war. Cowardly killing unarmed teenagers isn't war, it's a crime and a tragedy.


You don't have to read or write here, in this thread.

If you don't like it, just ignore it.

No, I'm going to school foreigners like you, and defend my nation and people in these trying times. Please don't tell me what to do.


I don't come to your home and talk about that issue if you don't want it. But I want to formulate a more reasonable and objective viewpoint on it here.

There's not even a hint of anything reasonable or objective in your garbled, ignorant posts.


Actually I do care, because like I said, human sufferings don't let me untouched.

By I'm not here to talk about that, because I think it is self-evident for any half-way normal human being.

Probably Breivik was such a sadist, which had no mercy, felt a sadist joy while doing what he did, I don't know.

And some sadists like to masturbate to these stories over the Internet.


Probably that was his central theme, probably not.

I never said that their guilt justified to hurt, yet alone kill them in any comparable way.

That's the difference.

You can be guilty of something bad, which doesn't deserve a hard punishment, if you know what I mean.

If you eat the last part of my cake on my birthday, without permission, you are guilty of doing that, but hardly you deserve death for your crime, if you allow that less serious comment as an explanation... ;)

Let me make this clear for you: THE PEOPLE KILLED ON JULY 22 WERE NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING!

To form an opinion, to be free to support democracy and free speech, to voluntarily meet up at a summer camp, to laugh and sing and socialise with other kids carries no guilt whatsoever! None! Is that bloody well understood?


Probably what you are saying comes from a general anger on how the outside world looks on Norway?

I'm angry because foreigners are belittling our tragedy, turning the mass murderer of our countrymen into a brave political activist, and lecturing us Norwegians about our country, our politics, what we should think, feel and do.


It might be even related to how Norwegians, the peaceful, progressive and nice country, being now related to a maniac who killed children?

Sure, and the fact that every ignorant foreigner can and will spew out BS about my country and this maniac, thinking they know better than us when clearly they don't.


I know how you feel, because that is what Germans experienced too, in another form. Being a victim and perpetrator the same time...

Not quite the same. Nazism was evil put into system and supported by millions of Germans. The half-wited sub-human who butchered those people on July 22, was acting alone and is seen as a criminal, cowardly, wicked douchebag.


Now that's something I can perfectly understand, but probably you are attacking strawmen here, which attitude and arguments are different from what you really mean - or just feel?

From what I've witnessed, there's not much at all that you "perfectly understand" about anything in this thread.

[Barreldriver]

Link me the quotes where i said i sympathise with him chumly or stfu.

Again with the personal attacks only further validates my accusation.

Do you deny that you stated that we was revolutionary in post 10 on page one?

Did you not state that he looked "inward at the cause of invasion" in post 12 on page two? By stating that he looked inward at the cause of invasion that implies that those teens killed were legitimate political targets when they should not have been. You did not differentiate between the politicians responsible for Norwegian immigrant problems and the teens killed, it leaves room for adverse interpretation.

If you do not hold such sympathies then why continue to get so emotional and insulting?

[rhiannon]

I'm not sure what's the use, all has been said several times already.

Try me. I'm not a moron:)

[Aces High]

Do you deny that you stated that we was revolutionary in post 10 on page one?

Did you not state that he looked "inward at the cause of invasion" in post 12 on page two? By stating that he looked inward at the cause of invasion when choosing targets that implies that those teens killed were legitimate political targets when they should not have been.



Stalin was revolutionary,doesnt mean i admire him.

He did look inwards at the cause of the invasion,and he did target those teenagers.....he did see them as legitmate targets.....so...?....how does that mean i sympathise with him...?

Now provide the links to where i said or wrote that i sympathise with him.

[Hevneren]

1) Im shaking in my boots.

2) Because you are Norwegian doesnt make you privvy to all the facts and information.They dont have a news blackout and keep all the secret information in Norway.
Judging by your infantile posts in reaction to the killings it seems that we outside of Norway can take a more rational and detatched view of what happened.
You shouldnt get all worked up about it...you know its bad for your spots.

I don't need some snot-nosed little Englishman lecturing me about my own bloody country. Are you this pissy and obnoxious all the time, boy?

And yes, I know more about what goes on around here than some random little English boy. Now run along and stop bothering the grown-ups.

[Hevneren]

Thats the strange thing,thats what i was getting at by saying he was thinking way outside the box....in totally different terms.
This is the first time that i can think of that someone has turned inwards to his own people or a certain portion of his own people and targeted them.
Now if he turned out to be some sort of mental retard high on lsd then i can understand the outrage at the waste of life due to some reject from society.
This guy wasnt some social reject though,he seems to have quite a high iq and knew and still knows what he is doing.
I think he chose this method because of a certain amount of desperation as Agrippa pointed out.Someone like him with his intelligence and singlemindedness could have gone into politics.....yet he probably knew (as we all do) the cards are stacked against anyone trying to make a stand agaisnt the current regime and their policies.So he chose another path.

Absolute myth. The sub-human had failed at everything in life. Everything was fake, including business cards, the so called "farm" (not owned but rented), the schools it went to, the uniforms (ordered from India and elsewhere) and even the face! The manifesto was almost entirely copied from other sources, even word for word! The fucker had 9 years, so it's hardly a miracle that it managed to cut and paste 1,500 pages together.

[Aces High]

Norway is a free country, and these teenagers were free to join the summer camp to socialise.


It wont be in fifty years time if the political elite doesnt change course,it will be flooded like the rest of Europe with third world flotsum.
Then talk to us about freedom.

You are venting spleen in the wrong direction.

[Barreldriver]

Stalin was revolutionary,doesnt mean i admire him.

Then I genuinely misinterpreted what you meant by revolutionary. My fault.

I was thinking revolutionary in the sense of "that light bulb is revolutionary (and thus a benefit) to in home lighting".


He did look inwards at the cause of the invasion,and he did target those teenagers.....he did see them as legitmate targets.....so...?....how does that mean i sympathise with him...?


It's all in how you worded that sentence, I have no way of telling intention behind posts if one words something poorly.

By stating "he looked inwards at the cause of the invasion" you did not make it clear that the "cause of invasion" was as he saw it alone, the way it was worded makes it seem that you were stating that he acted against what you think to be the cause of Norway's immigrant problems, a better way to have worded the sentence would have been "he looked inward at what he saw to be the cause of invasion. See the difference?

Either way there was no need for you to be insulting towards me earlier, I've made an attempt to post politely in this thread I would have expected the effort to be returned.

[Hevneren]

It wont be in fifty years time if the political elite doesnt change course,it will be flooded like the rest of Europe with third world flotsum.
Then talk to us about freedom.

You are venting spleen in the wrong direction.

I'm venting against obnoxious foreigners having the gumption to lecture us about our own country and people.

[Aces High]

I don't need some snot-nosed little Englishman lecturing me about my own bloody country.

Nobodys lecturing,we are having an online discussion.

Either chillax and start discussing things in a rational way or fuck off.

[Logan]

Thats the strange thing,thats what i was getting at by saying he was thinking way outside the box...So he chose another path.

I can understand your reasoning quite well mate. A bit too soon for some others to contemplate objectively.

[Barreldriver]

Either chillax and start discussing things in a rational way or fuck off.

You're one to be talking about civil discussion when you have this habit for throwing personal insults at folks in this thread. As if objects of my personal life were relevant to any part of this discussion yet you felt it appropriate to use them as ad hominem.

[Hevneren]

Nobodys lecturing,we are having an online discussion.

Either chillax and start discussing things in a rational way or fuck off.

Don't tell me to fuck off, Englishman. You need a bloody attitude adjustment. My ancestors knew how to treat Englishmen with an attitude problem, but it seems like the English are still as obnoxious as ever, acting as though they have a say in the affairs of others.

Why not focus on your own nation and kindly fuck off? I hear you have a looting problem in your failure of a nation.

[Aces High]

You're one to be talking about civil discussion when you have this habit for throwing personal insults at folks in this thread. As if objects of my personal life were relevant to any part of this discussion yet you felt it appropriate to use them as ad hominem.

Why is your head on upside down....?

[Aces High]

the English are still as obnoxious as ever, acting as though they have a say in the affairs of others.


You didnt mind us dabbling in Norwegian affairs when it came to us coming to your rescue and liberating you from the nazis......did you.?

[Barreldriver]

Why is your head on upside down....?

My head is not upside down I simply do not appreciate the earlier insulting comments directed at me when I've made an effort to bite my tongue so to speak.

[Aces High]

Understand what?

His motivation.His reasoning and why he decided upon those people to kill.What sparked off such a drastic action.His contacts.His worldview.His view on the future of Europe....did he do this to get a platform to air more views....is he insane.?

Things like that.

[Hevneren]

You didnt mind us dabbling in Norwegian affairs when it came to us coming to your rescue and liberating you from the nazis......did you.?

1. This isn't a thread about WWII. Learn to read, boy.

2. If you actually knew history, you'd know Norway was never liberated, apart from the north (which was by the USSR). Get your damn facts straight, boy.

3. The English promised to help early on but broke that promise and left us to be invaded and killed on our own. Many Norwegians were also killed while sailing to and from the UK with goods and intel. And actually, the British were mining our waters and provoking incidents in our neutral waters before the invasion, therefore they were complicit in the invasion to begin with.

4. It was Norwegian troops trained in Britain that actually did the dirty work in helping our people.

Now, back on topic.

[rhiannon]

His motivation.His reasoning and why he decided upon those people to kill.What sparked off such a drastic action.His contacts.His worldview.His view on the future of Europe....did he do this to get a platform to air more views....is he insane.?

Things like that.

I'll go with your last sentence.
The douchebag was crazier than a shithouse rat. There can be no reasoning of mass murder....at least...not in the rational sense.

Put in perspective: Many of us become very angry and disenfranchised over changes in the sociopolitical landscape of our nations'....but most of us are sane human beings who don't go around pulling stunts like this fucker did even if we may be just as angry as he was.

The man is a Sociopath. He deserves to die for his actions.

[Agrippa]

Understand what? (insert voices in head of ABB here) "Oh gee...I hate those fucking Muslims that keep moving here....and I am mad at my country for letting them in....so I think I will show my anger by going off on a fucking killing spree directed against MY FELLOW NORWEGIANS???????"

Excuse me...there is a BIG FUCKING DISCONNECT in here somewhere.

Maybe the guy had reason to be disgruntled....but disgruntled or not...there is NEVER a justification for KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS. Period!

You mean that seriously, do you?

First of all, Norway wasn't conquered by Muslims, or was it?

Norway is still an autonomous state, largely run by Norwegians. The main issue of foreign influence is that through international political institutions, economic relations, multinational corporations, the Plutocratic Oligarchy in the end, but also harmful ideologies, like Liberalism and Cultural Marxism.

But the latter ideologies being deeply rooted in the (politically at least) degenerated Norwegian society, cause - and will cause even more harm in the future, to the Norwegian people and Europe as a whole - actually, they threaten our very existence much more than any "Islamism".

Those who are spreading this degenerated worldviews, made up those harmful structures and invited foreign, non-integrable immigrants, by doing nothing against them, by trying to form a multicultural, multiracial, so called "plural society" caused it, nobody else!

How can you blame foreign immigrants for just using opportunities, the degenerated parts of the Norwegian society offered them?

So it is about treacherous and degenerated Norwegians, which betrayed their own people, country and Europe primarily, before anything else!

Because without those harmful elements working from inside, no mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners would have ever happened!

And to adress the issue with "Civilians":

Norway is a civil society, or is it a military state?

So even if there are military actions of Norwegians soldiers, let's say in Afghanistan or anywhere else, who gave out the orders to the soldiers, to the special forces, to the police men?

"Civilians" did it!

Because "civilian" politicans control them, give out the orders, make plans and the policy!

And where are those politicians, which betrayed the true interests of the Norwegian people and Europe come from? They being raised and educated by the families which have a Liberal or Cultural Marxist tradition already!

Which institutions bind them together, give them, despite their actions, feelings of relatedness and community?

Exactly, camps like the one Breivik attacked for example!

Again, I heard the interviews, I heard what they were saying: The majority of those going there being indoctrinated Cultural Marxists, even radical left extremists.

So while I stay to what I said before, what Breivik did was totally wrong and is despicable, how is it even possible, that you don't see the connection, the logic behind it?


KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS

Like I said, they were not innocent, but they were also not guilty in a way which would have justified anything coming even close to what Breivik did.

Yet, calling them "innocent" and "harmless", saying there is "no connection" and he was "just mad" is a huge belittlement.

He might be a psycho, but his decisions were based on a certain logical moment, that is obvious.

[Bridie]

The problem with trying to analyse mass murderers like this is that it gives them an importance they don't deserve. If these sorts of killing sprees were becoming common in Norway (or any country, for that matter) it would be useful to determine why, but in isolated cases like this a better course of action would be to just give him the death penalty and then focus on those whose lives he took away. Dismiss the bastard. He deserves no level of understanding.

[Aces High]

Excellent post Agrippa.

[Logan]

Reminds one a bit of Ted Bundy. What shall his future be in Norway's Legal System?

[rhiannon]

Agrippa...the people murdered by this guy were largely teenagers. They had NO power and were only beginning to exercise their political voices, as it were. They were innocent.

As for the term Civilian....it is a term I used rather loosely....in that Norway is not engaged in any wars with anyone...unless you (general you) are in the military, you're a civilian.

Other than that, I think you may have misunderstood my post? Hard to get the exact gist of what one is trying to say in solely a written medium..

[Hevneren]

You mean that seriously, do you?

First of all, Norway wasn't conquered by Muslims, or was it?

Norway is still an autonomous state, largely run by Norwegians. The main issue of foreign influence is that through international political institutions, corporations, the Plutocratic Oligarchy in the end, but also harmful ideologies, like Liberalism and Cultural Marxism.

Since you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, I'm losing my patience with you. There's no plutocratic oligarchy and no Marxism. Norway isn't Germany! Our country isn't a passive aggressive, neurotic mess like Germany. We have freedoms you don't have.


But the latter ideologies being deeply rooted in the degnerated Norwegian society, cause - and will cause even more harm in the future, to the Norwegian people and Europe as a whole.

Who are you calling degenerate? You're the one calling mass murder brave! Germany is a degenerate nation and always have been. Germans are sick to the core, and you can't live with yourselves, so you need to create an external enemy to distract yourselves from your own sickness. Two world wars later, and you're almost as sick as you were in the 1930's and 1940's.


Those who are spreading this degenerated worldviews, made up those harmful structures and invited foreign, non-integrable immigrants, by doing nothing against them, by trying to form a multicultural, multiracial, so called "plural society" caused it, nobody else!

How can you blame a foreigner for just using opportunities, the degenerated parts of the Norwegian society offered them?

Yes, like Germans, who come here in their ugly "Wohnmobile" and think they're welcome. They can't stand their own country, so they come here. Why? Germany is relatively rich, and yet they come here in a second invasion! Why do we need or want these Germans here in our nation? How do we know that they won't spread their German degeneracy to us?


So it is about treacherous and degenerated Norwegians, which betrayed their own people, country and Europe primarily, before anything else!

I try to appreciate the irony of being a Norwegian reading about a German writing that my countrymen were traitors to me and our people, but I just get annoyed and pissed off with the damn disrespect and gumption people like you show, calling my countrymen traitors for wanting to protect and serve our democracy in our country!

When will you stop lecturing us about our country, and when will you stop insulting my countrymen and those who were killed that day? I find your disrespectfulness disgraceful. Learn some manners, and get your nose out of our business!


Because without those harmful elements working from inside, no mass immigration of non-integrable foreigners would have ever happened!

And to adress the issue with "Civilians":

Norway is a civil society, or is it a military state?

So even if there are military actions of Norwegians soldiers, let's say in Afghanistan or anywhere else, who gave out the orders to the soldiers, to the special forces, to the police men?

"Civilians" did it!

Because "civilian" politicans control them, give out the orders, make plans and the policy!

All I read is excuses and more lecturing. Have you no shame?


And where are those politicians, which betrayed the true interests of the Norwegian people and Europe come from? They being raised and educated by the families which have an Cultural Marxist tradition already!

I'm sick and tired to the degree that I'm about to become nauseous, reading about blowhards like yourself pretending to know what's best for my country and people. If you're going to pretend like you know what's best for the Norwegian people, I might just start to vomit! :puke:


Which institutions bind them together, give them, despite their actions, feeling of relatedness and community?

Exactly, camps like the one Breivik attacked for example!

Again, I heard the intervies, I heard what they were saying: The majority of those going there being indoctrinated Cultural Marxists, even radical left extremists.

So while I stay to what I said before, what Breivik did was wrong, how is it even possible, that you don't see the connection, the logic behind it?

Your vile lies and ignorant nonsense won't change the facts. As an ignorant foreigner, you simply cackle on and pretend like you have a clue and like you have a right to lecture us. Why don't you stay out of our business and focus on Germany?


Like I said, they were not innocent, but they were also not guilty in a way which would have justified anything coming even close to what Breivik did.

They were innocent in every sense of the word, and no random ignorant German on an Internet forum is going to change the facts.


Yet, calling them "innocent" and "harmless", saying there is "no connection" and he was "just mad" is a huge belittlement.

There was only a connection in the driveling sub-human's twisted mind.


He might be a psycho, but his decisions were based on a certain logical moment, that is obvious.

No, there's no logic in what that sub-human did.

[Troll's Puzzle]

@ Hevernern
People other than Norwegians are allowed to have opinions about events involving 'your' country.
Also, their opinions may sometimes be more valid than your own.
Also, you don't speak for all Norwegians.


If this guy was Black, would you guys still be so interested in rationalizing his actions?

Yes.

not if he was Russian though (because it's not unusual for Russians to do stuff like that).

[rhiannon]

Reminds one a bit of Ted Bundy. What shall his future be in Norway's Legal System?

I am a UW Alumnus. That's where this fucker got his start:( So glad they offed his ass!!!!!

[Aces High]

Reminds one a bit of Ted Bundy.

In what way..?

[Hevneren]

@ Hevernern
People other than Norwegians are allowed to have opinions about events involving 'your' country.

Sure, but having an opinion is different from lecturing, being disrespectful and calling a mass murderer of my people brave.


Also, their opinions may sometimes be more valid than your own.

Usually not, and certainly not in this case. I tend to assume that a German knows German society better than me. I guess I just don't like ignorant foreigners sticking their noses in our business.


Also, you don't speak for all Norwegians.

No, but neither do random Englishmen and Germans on an Internet forum, and I'm pretty sure I know a wee bit more about my countrymen than they do.

[Agrippa]

Agrippa...the people murdered by this guy were largely teenagers. They had NO power and were only beginning to exercise their political voices, as it were. They were innocent.

Some of them were/are leading individuals in the youth organisation of the respective party organisation and members of other organisations excelling influence.

Innocent politically: No. They spread poison.
Guilty in a sense relevant for trying to kill them: Surely not.

So I please distinguish between innocent and "guilty enough for being hurt or even killed" - the latter definitely not, but innocent: NO WAY!


As for the term Civilian....it is a term I used rather loosely....in that Norway is not engaged in any wars with anyone...unless you (general you) are in the military, you're a civilian.

I could add to what I said above, because you used the term "civilian". I myself would have greater problems if attacking a police man, soldier or anything like that, who just follows orders, than those giving him the orders, do you know what I mean?

I mean the poor soldier or police man might be just another victim of the system, being caught in a job, in which he wanted to do something for his people, but being now forced, by this system, to do things, to act against people he actually doesn't dislike, like for example members of the extreme right.

So I personally, to repeat it, have always much more mercy for soldiers, since they might be just "peasants" in the political game, than for those which gave out the orders.


Other than that, I think you may have misunderstood my post? Hard to get the exact gist of what one is trying to say in solely a written medium..

Agreed, that is always a problem. Communication is a tricky business, some things you want to say might be misunderstood, that's always possible and something I try to avoid, yet it is impossible to avoid it for sure.


Since you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, I'm losing my patience with you. There's no plutocratic oligarchy and no Marxism. Norway isn't Germany! Our country isn't a passive aggressive, neurotic mess like Germany. We have freedoms you don't have.

Norway is better than Sweden and has more freedoms than Germany. Agreed, currently Norway is a better country, structurally-politically, than Germany, despite all its problems.

But still, it suffers from the very same diseases like the "rest of the West" - and saying there is no influence of the Plutocratic Oligarchy, or even Cultural Marxism in Norway, is ridiculous.

Just listen to what those camp survivors had to say politically, that is all about Cultural Marxism and nothing else.


Who are you calling degenerate? You're the one calling mass murder brave!

Actually I said risking the own health, life and freedom is brave.

If he would have done something similar without killing anyone, for example by just attacking buildings and still risking being wounded, shot, blowing himself up with his own bombs, he would have been as brave.

It is not about him killing those which were without weapons, that's cold blooded, which is sometimes related to being brave, but that's not the main thing I meant.

He was ready to take great risks for his plans, that's why he was braver than many - and you called him a coward, which is a joke. Cowards don't risk all he did.

Like I said above: There are more brave, and many much more decent people around which are more brave than he is, but nevertheless: Coward? I don't think so.


Germany is a degenerate nation and always have been. Germans are sick to the core, and you can't live with yourselves, so you need to create an external enemy to distract yourselves from your own sickness. Two world wars later, and you're almost as sick as you were in the 1930's and 1940's.

To say it blunt: If Germany wouldn't have lost the war, at least Norwegian women wouldn't be fucked by Negroids and Muslims now, giving birth to a foreign generation, with the descendents of the Vikings being feminised somethings which will be replaced by foreign elements, which they themselves, or better their degenerated parts, let into the country, populations and women.


Yes, like Germans, who come here in their ugly "Wohnmobile" and think they're welcome. They can't stand their own country, so they come here. Why? Germany is relatively rich, and yet they come here in a second invasion!

Sorry for your anti-German sentiments, but I must remind you of the fact, that a lot of Norways wealth coming from tourists and the natural ressources. Be glad you have both, otherwise you would be much more dependent, also from the foreign corporations, more poor and less arrogant too probably.

Still, I like the Norwegians and I have no problems with that nation, as long as they (individually) show the respect Germans or other fellow Europeans deserve.

Your provocations are worthless.


calling my countrymen traitors for wanting to protect and serve our democracy in our country

What do they protect? A system which allows foreigners to breed and weed out your fellow Norwegians in your own country?

And for what? For creating a "plural", Feminised-Capitalist society?


When will you stop lecturing us about our country, and when will you stop insulting my countrymen and those who were killed that day?

I'm sorry for his victims and gave my condolences in another thread already. They didn't deserved death, or being hurt in such a way, despite them being tools of the Plutocracy and the Cultural Marxist degeneracy.

After all, they were just young tools of the system, many of them don't even know better and understand nothing.


I'm sick and tired to the degree that I'm about to become nauseous, reading about blowhards like yourself pretending to know what's best for my country and people. If you're going to pretend like you know what's best for the Norwegian people, I might just start to vomit!

If people like those indoctrinated in that camp rule your country, there will be not too much true Norwegians be left in a couple of generations.

Probably both of us don't have to care for anything Norwegian then...

Embrace your new "multicultural-multiracial", "plural" crap society.

The "defenders" of this crap are your heros or what?

Do you want to say "thank you" for every single foreigner they let into your country?


Why don't you stay out of our business and focus on Germany?

It is the same crap anywhere and the enemies of the true German, European and human interests in German lands abuse the "Breivik story" for even more oppression, surveillance and injustice!

Also, the Cultural Marxists use Norway and even more so Sweden as "role models" for their crap they want to introduce here as well.
You must hear the debates when they talk about homosexuals and radical feminists, "gender mainstreaming" and "quotas" for women or minorities, how to hush up problems with the foreigners and they always talk about how great, how advanced Norway and Sweden are in installing this Cultural Marxist degeneracy.

We live now in a globalised world and a Europe, in which all the people coming closer and closer together. What happens at one end does influence the other - the fate of one European nation, a political change in one part of Europe, might cause great changes in the rest of it!

So yes, it is my issue as much as it is yours, because whether you like it or not, we sit in the same boat. National prejudices don't bring us forward any longer.


They were innocent in every sense of the word, and no random ignorant German on an Internet forum is going to change the facts.

They were taught and taught other youths about how to embrace the Cultural Marxist degeneracy.

They multiplied the memvirus which causes us so many troubles, which blinds so many Europeans and blocks their ratio, when talking about so many societal issues.

Surely, they were just used and abused, but at the same time, they are part of the next generation which goes on with that.

Having a different political opinion is no crime in my book neither, but we are talking here - that's what some brought up, about the Muslim and foreign threat as well, and talking about that without looking at the degenerated and treacherous elements INSIDE of the European nations is meaningless.

If I would have met them, I probably would just have discussed with them, and as long as they respect my point of view, I would have tolerated them as well.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are victims and didn't deserved what happened to them, but still, they are part of a greater evil, even if being individually great, valuable and nice human beings, as well as fellow Norwegians.

That's why Breivik attacked them, but I don't defend his actions - neither do I say what happened in this camp and what those people were raised for is harmless, or good, or anything worth of being defended.

Surely not.

They are an abomination even for the old Labour parties in Europe, for what Social Democracy stood for in the past, with their new pseudotolerant policy, the idea of the "plural society" and all that crap.

I have/had even sympathies for real Social Democrats, but just think about for which they now stand for, especially if looking at the developments on the longer run. For sure not for the interests of the true (ethnic) Norwegians or Europeans.

Also, if some maniac would kill off the youth of the Social Democratic party here, I would also be enraged and say it is not right.

But still, that doesn't change one quota about the fact that those political groups have a responsibility for what's happening in Europe. They are in charge, they could prevent it, but they escalate all the degeneracies!

[SwordoftheVistula]

Glenn Beck, a well renowned and popular political commentator, was spot on when he pointed out the similarities (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norway-hitler-youth-video) between this Utoya camp and the Nazi Hitler Youth camps.

93 little Eichmanns on the wall, take one down......

[Pallantides]

Glenn Beck, a well renowned and popular political commentator, was spot on when he pointed out the similarities (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norway-hitler-youth-video) between this Utoya camp and the Nazi Hitler Youth camps.

93 little Eichmanns on the wall, take one down......

Glenn Beck is a fucking idiot... shows that foreigners know nothing!

[rhiannon]

Glenn Beck is a fucking idiot... shows that foreigners know nothing!

Thanks for saying it for me:) Hate that douchebag.......

[Bridie]

Glenn Beck, a well renowned and popular political commentator, was spot on when he pointed out the similarities (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norway-hitler-youth-video) between this Utoya camp and the Nazi Hitler Youth camps.

93 little Eichmanns on the wall, take one down......Nothing can justify what this subhuman did... when you guys focus on this camp as opposed to the young lives he took, it sounds as though this is what you're trying to do. (Whether you actually are or not.)

[Treffie]

Like I said, they were not innocent, but they were also not guilty in a way which would have justified anything coming even close to what Breivik did.

Yet, calling them "innocent" and "harmless", saying there is "no connection" and he was "just mad" is a huge belittlement.

He might be a psycho, but his decisions were based on a certain logical moment, that is obvious.

Most of them were under 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks#Ut.C3.B8ya), so of course they were innocent.

I see nothing wrong in trying to understand Breivik's motives, however bizarre they are, but to call the victims`not innocent` is fucking weird.

[Aces High]

Nothing can justify what this subhuman did... when you guys focus on this camp as opposed to the young lives he took, it sounds as though this is what you're trying to do. (Whether you actually are or not.)

We understood what you wrote the first time and didnt take any notice of it,but thanks for repeating it all the same.

"He was bad an it was bad to kill the kids"

Ever thought about a career in international diplomacy...?...im sure with your ozzie common sense and down to earthness you could have the Libyan mess sorted out in two minutes flat.:rolleyes:

[Agrippa]

Nothing can justify what this subhuman did... when you guys focus on this camp as opposed to the young lives he took, it sounds as though this is what you're trying to do. (Whether you actually are or not.)

The individuals are dead, I am sorry for that, so are most here I guess.

But if talking about this camp and incident, it is about MUCH, MUCH MORE than "just some individuals", as bad as this crime was. It is about the future of Europe and the European type of man, the European culture, the future of mankind.

This is not about the past, which you can't change anyway, but about the future!

If people just see those elements using this camp as "poor victims" which are "so innocent" and "did nothing wrong", while all the right wingers are "such bad people", what you get is just another momentum, another abuse by the media machine controlled by the Plutocracy-Liberalists and Cultural Marxists.

So one has to show the crimes of the system, this sick ideology and what this camp stands for as well.

[Frederick]

Nazi Germanys definition of "Aryan" was quiet wide (to please the German population I guess)

There was a poster to teach kids in school "Race science" and its headline was:
"Die 6 Arischen Rassen" (the six Aryan races)

And below:

- Nordisch (Nordid)
- Westisch (Atlantid)
- Ostisch (Alpin)
- Fälisch (Faelid)
- Ostbaltid (Baltid)
- Dinarisch (Dinarid)

By this, the Nazis declared virtually every German "Aryan" from the French border to the Russian border, from the Danish border to the Austrian border.

So, the pragmatic German view on "Aryan", he possibly would have fit anyways. ;)

[Agrippa]

Nazi Germanys definition of "Aryan" was quiet wide (to please the German population I guess)

There was a poster to teach kids in school "Race science" and its headline was:
"Die 6 Arischen Rassen" (the six Aryan races)

And below:

- Nordisch (Nordid)
- Westisch (Atlantid)
- Ostisch (Alpin)
- Fälisch (Faelid)
- Ostbaltid (Baltid)
- Dinarisch (Dinarid)

By this, the Nazis declared virtually every German "Aryan" from the French border to the Russian border, from the Danish border to the Austrian border.

So, the pragmatic German view on "Aryan", he possibly would have fit anyways. ;)

Actually every European was considered "Aryan" and that was not just something "German", but well established by many other racialists and Anti-Semites as well.

Also, after seeing how useless this term is, they spoke more often about "German blooded", "Germanic/Nordic" or for the important judicial issues about "artverwandt" = cognate/European.

[Treffie]

The individuals are dead, I am sorry for that, so are most here I guess.

But if talking about this camp and incident, it is about MUCH, MUCH MORE than "just some individuals", as bad as this crime was. It is about the future of Europe and the European type of man, the European culture, the future of mankind.

This is not about the past, which you can't change anyway, but about the future!

If people just see those elements using this camp as "poor victims" which are "so innocent" and "did nothing wrong", while all the right wingers are "such bad people", what you get is just another momentum, another abuse by the media machine controlled by the Plutocracy-Liberalists and Cultural Marxists.

So one has to show the crimes of the system, this sick ideology and what this camp stands for as well.

The problem with your recent posts in this thread, Agrippa, is that you are trying to justify the murder of children. If you can't understand the feelings of a whole nation, I suggest that you don't insult the Norwegians any further.

[Troll's Puzzle]

The problem with your recent posts in this thread, Agrippa, is that you are trying to justify the murder of children. If you can't understand the feelings of a whole nation, I suggest that you don't insult the Norwegians any further.

I don't think he's insulting Norwegians,

but in any case, there is no such thing as 'the feelings of a whole nation'

(or did i miss 5 million people logging as one, acting upset and arguing with him?)

[Agrippa]

Most of them were under 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks#Ut.C3.B8ya), so of course they were innocent.

What? Since when are people just because they are not older than 18 years "automatically innocent"? What kind of logic should that be?

There are younger than 18 murderers, rapists, robbers, etc., what has their age to do with this?

I even know personally cases in which boys below 16 burned a bum alive, raped an 8 year old girl or stabbed adults.

This is the American-British idea of "below 18" - can't be taken full, but that's just not realistic. Well, sure they are on a different tablet than adults still, but to mention that in the context of whether they were innocent or not is IRRELEVANT.

Most of them are innocent insofar, as they had no responsible function in the system (yet) - some of those were however already in more important positions.


The problem with your recent posts in this thread, Agrippa, is that you are trying to justify the murder of children.

No. I didn't justify the murder Breivik did.

As you said, I explained his motives and explained why this political group is a problem and Norwegians being raped from inside, not outside, because the foreigners are just exploiting a situation treacherous Norwegians, like treacherous Germans, British, French etc. created. It is the same situation in Norway as well as elsewhere in Europe.


If you can't understand the feelings of a whole nation, I suggest that you don't insult the Norwegians any further.

I perfectly understand their emotions and made that clear before, with my reference to patriotism, collective emotions and feelings.

But as I said, this is a far greater issue than just Norway and those Cultural Marxists, this ideology is not alright over night, being "pure innocence like angels", just because they themselves became the victims of a maniac called Breivik recently.

[Hevneren]

Norway is better than Sweden and has more freedoms than Germany. Agreed, currently Norway is a better country, structurally-politically, than Germany, despite all its problems.

But still, it suffers from the very same diseases like the "rest of the West" - and saying there is no influence of the Plutocratic Oligarchy, or even Cultural Marxism in Norway is ridiculous.

Since you don't know shit about Norway, you really shouldn't be arguing with a Norwegian. You are arrogant beyond comprehension! There's no oligarchy or Marxism here. You are simply an ignorant German. Focus on your own country.


Just listen to what those camp survivors had to say politically, that is all about Cultural Marxism and nothing else.

Since I actually know Norwegian, your ignorant and nonsensical statements simply aren't true. Who are you to tell me what my countrymen think or believe?


Actually I said risking the own health, life and freedom is brave.

The sub-human risked neither health nor life, and had plans to escape the police. When it custody, this "brave" mass murdering scum bitched and whined about being in solitary. Fucking coward.


If he would have done something similar without killing anyone, for example by just attacking buildings and still risking being wounded, shot, blowing himself up with his own bombs, he would have been as brave.

I don't consider blowing up buildings - unless you're in it yourself - to be brave.


It is not about him killing those which were without weapons, that's cold blooded, which is sometimes related to being brave, but that's not the main thing I meant.

He not only killed unarmed young teens, he had to do it while using drugs. Sickeningly weak, spineless coward!


He was ready to take great risks for his plans, that's why he was braver than many - and you called him a coward, which is a joke. Cowards don't risk all he did.

Yes, avoiding to get blown up by the bomb, using drugs and going heavily armed against unarmed teenagers, planning an escape from capture and bitching and whining and equalling solitary confinement to a concentration camp, is oh so brave! :bullet puke

That sub-human is s spineless, cowardly weakling, and you are a depraved individual for calling this near unprecedented cowardice "brave".


Like I said above: There are more brave, and many much more decent people around which are more brave than he is, but nevertheless: Coward? I don't think so.

The sub-human is now bitching and whining and maybe even pissing it's pants in solitary confinement. Are you going to be brave like this spineless sub-human, too? :rolleyes2:


To say it blunt: If Germany wouldn't have lost the war, at least Norwegian women wouldn't be fucked by Negroids and Muslims now, giving birth to a foreign generation, with the descendents of the Vikings being feminised somethings which will be replaced by foreign elements, they themselves, or better their degenerated parts, let in.

You are an absolute disgrace. First you call mass murderers brave, then you stick up for Nazi Germany and make disgusting and vulgar comments. It's quite evident that you have neither class nor morals.

Wake up, German. Your Nazi utopia is long gone. Its vile, immoral and degenerate ideology lost, just like the degenerate sub-human and it's anti-Norwegian ideology lost. In the same vein, I will make sure to keep defending my nation and my people on this forum against hateful people like yourself, and ensure your failure at every turn. Your hatred against my nation and people has been duly noted.

And for your information, my nation is neither "feminised" nor Marxist, you ignorant German. Your disgusting arrogance and putrid hatred and disrespect might just be enough for me to fight you until I get banned on this site, but it would be worth it. Germans like you are unwelcome in my country, and so are your opinions. You're nothing but an arrogant nuisance and a blight upon this forum, and I find your presence and your arrogant lecturing about my country offencive.

Norway is a strong nation and Norwegians are a strong and proud people with a long history, unlike the cowering Germans and their short history. How dare you belittle my nation and people in this manner? How dare you defend Nazi Germany, which was my nation and people's mortal enemy?

We fought the foreign Nazi invaders bravely, because this is our land and our people. You show your disgraceful attitudes by stating we'd be better off under a foreign German fascist dictatorship! How dare you?


Sorry for your anti-German sentiments, but I must remind you of the fact, that a lot of Norways wealth coming from tourists and the natural ressources. Be glad you have both, otherwise you would be much more dependent, also from the foreign corporations, more poor and less arrogant too probably.

I find it hilarious that a disgustingly arrogant German like you could dare call me arrogant! You dare to lecture me about my own country and people, and then you have the the gall to be vulgar and praise the Third Reich and the worst mass murderer in our history, as "brave"?


Still, I like the Norwegians and I have no problems with that nation, as long as they (individually) show the respect Germans or other fellow Europeans deserve.

Your provocations are worthless.

We have no obligation to show arrogant foreigners who lecture us about our nation any respect whatsoever. That sort is simply not welcome here. Mind your own damn business!


What do they protect? A system which allows foreigners to breed and weed out your fellow Norwegians in your own country?

No, a free democracy rather than a sickly un-free state like Germany.


And for what? For creating a "plural", Feminised Capitalist society?

Since you still have no clue about what goes on in Norway, I'll just assume that you're making shit up from this point on. I can tell you that there's no such thing, so why not fucking listen to an actual Norwegian for once, rather than being a goddamn arrogant foreigner lecturing me about my own country and people?


I'm sorry for his victims and gave my condolences in another threat already. They didn't deserved death, or being hurt in such a way, despite them being tools of the Plutocracy and the Cultural Marxist degeneracy.

After all, they were just young tools of the system, many of them don't even know better and understand nothing.

Again, you're making stuff up. Go away and focus on your degenerate Germany!


If people like those indoctrinated in that camp rule your country, there will be not too much true Norwegians be left in a couple of generations.

Probably both of us don't have to care for anything Norwegian then...

You're full of BS, German. Your ignorant lecturing, foreigner, is nothing but BS. You've started predicting demographics based on your own little crystal ball, you ignorant, arrogant foreigner. Now, go and focus on your own damn country!


Embrace your new "multicultural-multiracial", "plural" crap society.

The "defenders" of this crap are your heros or what?

Do you want to say "thank you" for every single foreigner they let into your country?

You're writing so much pahetic nonsense, you ignorant foreigner. Your filthy Germany is drowning in Turks, you ignorant German. Why don't you deal with the real problems in your own country, rather than making up false problems in Norway and meddling in our business? OK, German?


It is the same crap anywhere and the enemies of the true German, European and human interests in German lands abuse the "Breivik story" for even more oppression, surveillance and injustice!

People like you are my enemy, foreigner. I've exposed your hatred and disrespect against my people and nation. You're simply a very disrespectful, ignorant, arrogant foreigner who feels entitled to meddle in my nation's business. You simply have no shame, foreigner.


Also, the Cultural Marxists use Norway and even more so Sweden as "role models" for their crap they want to introduce here as well.
You must hear the debates when they talk about homosexual and radical feminists, "gender mainstreaming" and "quotas" for women or minorities and they always talk how great, how advanced Norway and Sweden are in installing this Cultural Marxist degeneracy.

It's not our fault if your degenerate Germany twists and turns our policies into something else. It's not our fault that Germany is a failure while Norway succeeds time and time again. You Germans are simply used to losing by now, while we are used to winning.


We live now in a globalised world and a Europe in which all the people coming closer and closer together, what happens at one end does influence the other - the fate of one European nation, a political change in one part of Europe, might cause great changes in the rest of it!

Screw globalisation, screw the EU and screw foreigners meddling in our business! Europe is nothing but a fantasy, and a geographical concept on a map, nothing more.


So yes, itis my issue as much as it is yours, because whether you like it or not, we sit in the same boat. National prejudices don't bring us forward any longer.

Nope, Germany isn't my business and Norway isn't your business.



They were taught and taught other youths about how to embrace the Cultural Marxist degeneracy.

The multiplied the memvirus which causes us so many trouble, which blinds so many Europeans and blocks their ratio, when talking about so many societal issues.

Surely, they were just used and abused, but at the same time, they are part of the next generation which goes on with that.

It's funny that you have all this made up terms, and call others degenerate, when it's clearly you who's the degenerate, foreigner. Pot, meet kettle! :rolleyes2:


Having a different political opinion is no crime in my book neither, but we are talking here - that's what some brought up, about the Muslim and foreign threat as well and talking about that without looking at the degenerated and treacherous elements INSIDE of the European nations is meaningless.

Yes, but you're simply ignorant to what goes on in Norway, which is why I dismiss your posts at every single turn. You simply don't understand a single thing about my country or people. You are ignorant, without knowledge and simply confused about Norway and Norwegians. I don't know how else to put it. In every way, you are wrong. You know nothing. I hope I have made myself clear now, foreigner.


If I would have met them, I probably would just have discussed with them, and as long as they respect my point of view, I would have tolerated them as well.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are victims and didn't deserved what happened to them, but still, they are part of a greater evil, even if being individual great, valuable and nice human beings as well as fellow Norwegians.

That's why Breivik attacked them, but I don't defend his actions - neither do I say what happened in this camp and what those people were raised for is harmless, or good, or anything worth of being defended.

Surely not.

You can barely hide your admiration for this mass murderer, can you?


They are an abomination even for the old Labour parties in Europe, for what Social Democracy stood for in the past, with their new pseudotolerant policy, the idea of the "plural society" and all that crap.

The Norwegian Labour Party is both mainstream and moderate. As I've mentioned about a dozen times or more, you are simply ignorant.


I have/had even sympathies for real Social Democrats, but just think about for which they now stand for, especially if looking the developments on the longer run, for sure not for the interests of the true (ethnic) Norwegians or Europeans.

Also, if some maniac would kill off the youth of the Social Democratic party here, I would also be enraged and say it is not right.

The Labour Party is social democratic. Your ignorance is simply astounding, on every level.


But still, that doesn't change one quota about the fact that those political groups have a responsibility for what's happening in Europe. They are in charge, they could prevent it, but they escalate all the degeneracies!

Speak for your sickly Germany, foreigner. Now, leave this thread be and focus on your own country. You've caused enough damage on this thread with your nonsense, disrespect, hatred, vulgarity and ignorance.

[Eldritch]

Quit your immature histrionics, Hevneren. People are allowed to express their opinions here, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Pallantides]

A statistic for those who think Norway is "overrun" by muslims:

ca. 12% of Norways total population are immigrants(the two largest immigrant groups are Swedes and Poles) and about 3.4% of immigrants are muslims.


88% Norwegians
3.4% Muslims

I hardly call that being overrun...

[Jon Snow]

Quit your immature histrionics, Hevneren. People are allowed to express their opinions here, and there's nothing you can do about it.

This.

[Agrippa]

Since you don't know shit about Norway, you really shouldn't be arguing with a Norwegian. You are arrogant beyond comprehension! There's no oligarchy or Marxism here. You are simply an ignorant German. Focus on your own country.

Well, where is Social Democracy coming from? MARXISM!

I think you really need some basic education, don't you?


Since its establishment in the late 19th century, the party steadily increased in support until it became the largest party in Norway in 1927 – a position it has held ever since. This year also saw the consolidation of conflicts surrounding the party during the 1920s following its membership of Comintern from 1919 to 1923. From 1945 to 1961, the party had an absolute majority in the Norwegian parliament, during which Norway was casually referred to as a "one party state". Since 1935, there have been only sixteen years in which the party has not held the office of the Prime Minister. The domination by the Labour Party, during the 1960s and early 1970s, was initially broken by competition from the left, primarily from the Socialist People's Party.


The party was a member of the Labour and Socialist International between 1938 and 1940

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(Norway)


I don't consider blowing up buildings - unless you're in it yourself - to be brave.

If you blow yourself up, when it is not necessary, I call that stupid.


That sub-human is s spineless, cowardly weakling, and you are a depraved individual for calling this near unprecedented cowardice "brave".

I just answered to your comment about him being "such a coward", which can be debated, as he risked his health, life and freedom.


You are an absolute disgrace. First you call mass murderers brave

No, I said his readiness to sacrifice himself is brave. The mass murder not.


Wake up, German. Your Nazi utopia is long gone. Its vile, immoral and degenerate ideology lost, just like the degenerate sub-human and it's anti-Norwegian ideology lost. In the same vein, I will make sure to keep defending my nation and my people on this forum against hateful people like yourself, and ensure your failure at every turn. Your hatred against my nation and people has been duly noted.

I have no hate against Norwegians or Norway, what are you talking about?


And for your information, my nation is neither "feminised" nor Marxist, you ignorant German.

Sure you are! Compare your state with what you had just 70 years ago in this respect!


Norway is a strong nation and Norwegians are a strong and proud people with a long history, unlike the cowering Germans and their short history.

Norwegians having "a longer history" than Germans...ye sure :D


How dare you belittle my nation and people in this manner? How dare you defend Nazi Germany, which was my nation and people's mortal enemy?

Germany was never your "mortal enemy".


We fought the foreign Nazi invaders bravely, because this is our land and our people. You show your disgraceful attitudes by stating we'd be better off under a foreign German fascist dictatorship! How dare you?

That's just another part of the "mindless patriotism" and "collective emotions" I spoke about.


No, a free democracy rather than a sickly un-free state like Germany.

Well, if you give those Cultural Marxists what they want, you will see your freedom go down the drain...


Screw globalisation, screw the EU and screw foreigners meddling in our business! Europe is nothing but a fantasy, and a geographical concept on a map, nothing more.

Yeah? Tell that the Social Democrats you are so fancy about, because they are in charge and could make a difference :thumbs up


The Norwegian Labour Party is both mainstream and moderate. As I've mentioned about a dozen times or more, you are simply ignorant.

Todays mainstream is degenerate, so what? Or are they defending true ethnic Norwegians in front of the multicultural mess they produced?


The Labour Party is social democratic. Your ignorance is simply astounding, on every level.

Social Democrats are leftists, based on Marxists teaching and with the paradigm change latest in the 1990's, they adopted Cultural Marxist ideas and promoted them in society.

So better read yourself up on the facts:
"On cultural Marxism"
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17073

"Cause of the Racial Tragedy - Cultural Marxism?"
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2405


Speak for your sickly Germany, foreigner. Now, leave this thread be and focus on your own country. You've caused enough damage on this thread with your nonsense, disrespect, hatred, vulgarity and ignorance.

Reading what you wrote and then reading this is like a joke.

But I have humour, so I take it with humour. If it helps yourself to live with your crap...

[Hevneren]

Glenn Beck, a well renowned and popular political commentator, was spot on when he pointed out the similarities (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norway-hitler-youth-video) between this Utoya camp and the Nazi Hitler Youth camps.

93 little Eichmanns on the wall, take one down......

That fucking degenerate Beck talked out of his filthy arse.

First of all, the fucking hypocrite Beck has a Tea Part camp for kids.

Second of all, there's a huge difference between a voluntarily summer camp for about a week, where the teenagers and young adults discuss and socialise in the name of free speech and democracy in a free country, and a fucking fascist indctrination camp for kids and teenagers, who learn to be good little anti-Semites, fascists and automatons who learn not to question.

Third of all, it's distasteful beyond words that you turn the murder of 69 young teenagers and young adults into a fucking joke. You really have no sense of decency?

By the way, YMCA, the Boy Scouts, Young Republicans, the Tea Party camps etc. are all common in the USA. Many of these camps are for preteens, while the summer camp at Utøya was for teenagers and up, and with the permission of their parents.

Don't get me started on politics in the USA, StV. If you really want to degrade my countrymen who were senselessly killed by a sub-human, then I'll be here fighting for my land and people for as long as I have to. I refuse to sit by and let foreigners disgrace the memory of our dead, or to praise the worst mass murderer in our nation's 1,139 year history.

[Hevneren]

Quit your immature histrionics, Hevneren. People are allowed to express their opinions here, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Beg your pardon? I don't take kindly to disrespectful, lecturing and hateful comments by foreigners about my country. I'm not going to change my position, and I'll defend my nation and people on this forum until I get banned.

[Treffie]

What? Since when are people just because they are not older than 18 years "automatically innocent"? What kind of logic should that be?

There are younger than 18 murderers, rapists, robbers, etc., what has their age to do with this?

You are justifying the death of these children by stipulating that they weren't innocent. Tell me, what crime did these children commit that is punishable by law?


I even know personally cases in which boys below 16 burned a bum alive, raped an 8 year old girl or stabbed adults.

Weak argument. These kids you mention have obviously committed a crime that is punishable by law.



No. I didn't justify the murder Breivik did.

Yes you did.

[Hess]

They will never admit it (especially on a forum that can easily be accesed by the police), but i have a creeping suspicion that people in the "lets rationalize why he did this" camp secretely sympathize with Breivik.

[Jon Snow]

Beg your pardon? I don't take kindly to disrespectful, lecturing and hateful comments by foreigners about my country. I'm not going to change my position, and I'll defend my nation and people on this forum until I get banned.

Discussion forums are for discussion. :lightbul:

I understand why you might be feeling defensive or upset, but that does not give you the right to censor opposing viewpoints. You're also doing yourself a disservice by remaining closed-minded and emotionally driven (though, again, I suppose it's not unreasonable that you are in this context).

[Agrippa]

A statistic for those who think Norway is "overrun" by muslims:

ca. 12% of Norways total population are immigrants(the two largest immigrant groups are Swedes and Poles) and about 3.4% of immigrants are muslims.


88% Norwegians
3.4% Muslims

I hardly call that being overrun...

First all, 12 percent of the population are foreigners officially, usually, the real numbers are always higher and most importantly, of these foreigners, the groups growing the fastest being usually the non-Europeans, Muslim or not, but with the Muslims having - quite often - some of the highest birthrates.

Also, who cares for the percentage of the total population? If it is about the future, it is about the younger ones, the children!

In various parts of - especially urban - Norway, among the school children foreigners are already the majority - it is the same scenario, in this respect like in many others, like it is in most European nations of the Western culture - and in the rest the foreigners coming in too, with local non-integrable minorities like the Gypsies having explosive birth rates and behaviour...



You are justifying the death of these children by stipulating that they weren't innocent.


Yes you did.

Never! Where did you read that?

Just because I hate this camp and what it stands for doesn't mean that I would EVER even consider that it is alright to just murder young ones being brought their by others quite often.

I said more than once that I think it was not right what he did and that what he did is despicable.

Don't put things in my mouth I never said!


Tell me, what crime did these children commit that is punishable by law?

Who cares for laws made up by their parents, to say it blunt.

The problem is, that their organisation is spreading the memvirus, is very dangerous and harmful to Norwegians and Europe.

Not because of "classic Social Democratic policy", which I often support myself, especially if it is about social justice, care and thoughtfulness, but because of their cooperation with the Plutocracy, the debt slavery they let into the system, their help for the Neoliberal policy, despite their "Social Democratic ideals" and of course their promotion of the multicultural-multiracial, pseudo-plural societal model, which is an abomination, takes away all defence mechanisms of the Europeans and leads, together with the internal degeneration in the Feminised society to the outbreeding and death of the Norwegian - as well as, by spreading that memvirus elsewhere, in other countries.

[Eldritch]

Beg your pardon? I don't take kindly to disrespectful, lecturing and hateful comments by foreigners about my country. I'm not going to change my position, and I'll defend my nation and people on this forum until I get banned.

You don't have to change your position. It's your demands that others change theirs that are problematic.

I understand that your nation and, apparently, yourself have been traumatised by these tragic events (I refer to your insistence on calling Breivik sub-human and your refusal to even try to understand his motives), but nevertheless, you cannot monopolise the discussion, or dictate what's acceptable and what isn't.

[Pallantides]

Discussion forums are for discussion. :lightbul:

I understand why you might be feeling defensive or upset, but that does not give you the right to censor opposing viewpoints. You're also doing yourself a disservice by remaining closed-minded and emotionally driven (though, again, I suppose it's not unreasonable that you are in this context).

We Norwegians are a passionate and emotional people.:)


Personally I find it especially frustrating and irritating when foreigners speak to us like they know our country better than we do and act like we somehow don't know anything about or own country.

[Agrippa]

We Norwegians are a passionate and emotional people.:)


Personally I find it especially frustrating and irritating when foreigners speak to us like they know our country better than we do and act like we somehow don't know anything about or own country.

Seriously, this guy talked about "Norway has no Marxists".

How do you call that? Great and reasonable insights from an intelligent Norwegian citizen?

:rolleyes2:

[SwordoftheVistula]

Glenn Beck is a fucking idiot... shows that foreigners know nothing!

Norway: Just under 5 million people

Glenn Beck: 4 million listeners to program.

If Glenn Beck was in Norway, he would have 80% audience :) as it is he is the 3rd or 4th largest news talk radio host.

RE: 'teenagers'. Most of the 'nazi war criminals' being hunted down today were teenagers at the time of their war crimes. Pretty much all of those prosecuted in the past decade or two were all under 24 years of age, just like most of the dead in the Utoya shootings.

[Pallantides]

Seriously, this guy talked about "Norway has no Marxists".

How do you call that? Great and reasonable insights from an intelligent Norwegian citizen?

:rolleyes2:

We do have NKP(Norges Kommunistiske Parti) and Rødt(AKP+Rød Valgallianse) wich are communist parties.
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/44/440/440859/akpX3XpanoX2.jpg

Both parties are very small.

[Jon Snow]

We Norwegians are a passionate and emotional people.:)

Very true, in my (limited) experience.

Certainly, the stereotype of the cold, dispassionate Nordic peoples is far from accurate. :D


Personally I find it especially frustrating and irritating when foreigners speak to us like they know our country better than we do and act like we somehow don't know anything about or own country.

Understandably so!

I didn't really get that vibe from Agrippa, though--not in this thread.

I wonder whether Norwegians might be especially sensitive to the prospect of foreign influence; they are a people who make their own path, to a large degree, and this is in no way a bad thing. An obvious example of this is Norway's non-membership in the EU.

[Agrippa]

Thanks for the info, but you know that Marxism is not just Communism after the split and all those Marxist derived parties, including Social Democrats, still have their Marxist tradition.

Just visit one of their centres...

And with "political correctness", "gender mainstreaming", "multicultural society", "pseudo-tolerance", "anti-discrimination laws" and so on, Cultural Marxism became mainstream, being now in the program of so called Liberalist/Liberal, "central right" and (neo-) "conservative" movements-organisations as well.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Many sources report this political party, which had the camp for children to brainwash, was anti-Israel and anti-capitalist. Who hates Jews and Capitalists? Who runs political camps for children? The Nazis do.

http://radiopatriot.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/norwegian-campsite-utoya-was-socialist-and-anti-israel/

The day before Anders Behring Breivik opened fire on youths at a Labor Party camp, organizers welcomed the country’s foreign minister. Now, the foreign minister’s message from that day has been revealed: it was an anti-Israel speech in which he came out in strong support of a Palestinian state. That message was something being supported by the camp’s attendees, who were part of the ruling Labor Party’s socialist youth movement called AUF.

The Labor Party, which is Norway’s largest political party, also trumpets socialist thought. A translated explanation of the party says it wants “a strong welfare state, controlled by the government and financed through taxes and duties beyond the nation’s income.”

“‘Work for all,’” it adds, “has been the party kampsak [or motto] since the 1930s.”

[Hevneren]

Well, where is Social Democracy coming from? MARXISM!

You're hilarious, foreigner. The two are different. Social democracy is a mixed economic system implementing capitalism. Silly soreigners always mix things up.


I think you really need some basic education, don't you?

No, but I think you need to actually know what you're talking about, and start focusing on your own country rather than making ignorant comments about mine. And might I also suggest bolstering your reading comprehension level?


If you blow yourself up, when it is not necessary, I call that stupid.

I call that mentally unstable.


I just answered to your comment about him being "such a coward", which can be debated, as he risked his health, life and freedom.

The sub-human did no such thing. There was never any danger of death or injury. The bomb exploded when this piece of shit was long gone, and the no-god coward knew none of those kids were armed or that the spineless fuck would be in any danger. As for risking freedom - if you'd learnt how to read - I've already told you the scum had an escape plan, and ever since being in custody the chickenshit has bitched and whined about being incarcerated. Fucking coward.


No, I said his readiness to sacrifice himself is brave. The mass murder not.

But that wasn't the case. The fucking coward had no real intention of self-sacrifice, giving up without a fight after gunning down innocent unarmed teenagers. Worthless, spineless sub-human coward.


I have no hate against Norwegians or Norway, what are you talking about?

Every single post you've ever made on this thread spells out your disregard for the Norwegian victims of this crime, your disrespect towards Norway and its people, as well as your hatred of our democracy and our freedoms. Your lecturing proves your arrogant attitude towards me, as a native Norwegian, and everything you've spewed out has been negative against my nation. I'm going to defend my nation and people from your sort and the arrogance and ignorance which you display, and I'll keep on doing so for as long as I must.


Sure you are! Compare your state with what you had just 70 years ago in this respect!

In 1941 we had a foreign fascist Nazi German occupation, we had no real government, and we were living under tyranny by the German aggressors. Thousands of my countrymen were killed, thousands more imprisoned, hundreds of homes were burned down.


Norwegians having "a longer history" than Germans...ye sure :D

Germany was formed in the 1800's (I might be generous here), Norway was formed in 872 AD. Anyone who can count, will give me right on this.


Germany was never your "mortal enemy".

From April 9, 1940 until May 7, 1945 they were.


That's just another part of the "mindless patriotism" and "collective emotions" I spoke about.

I'll take my nationalism and strong pride and backbone, and you can have your European Union and sell out to other nations.


Well, if you give those Cultural Marxists what they want, you will see your freedom go down the drain...

Since you don't know what you're talking about, and frankly neither do I, I fail to see your point. You remain completely ignorant.


Yeah? Tell that the Social Democrats you are so fancy about, because they are in charge and could make a difference :thumbs up


I don't need a foreigner to tell me what to do.

Todays mainstream is degenerate, so what? Or are they defending true ethnic Norwegians in front of the multicultural mess they produced?

What concern is it of yours what anyone does in my nation? My people are my people and not yours. Concentrate on our own country. Your minblowing ignorance isn't getting you anywhere anyway.


Social Democrats are leftists, based on Marxists teaching and with the paradism change latest in the 1990's, they adopted Cultural Marxist ideas and promoted them in society.

They are moderates, not Marxists. You are too ignorant for your own good. Please stop embarrassing yourself.


So better read yourself up on the facts:
"On cultural Marxism"
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17073

"Cause of the Racial Tragedy - Cultural Marxism?"
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2405


Biased articles on TA? No thank you.



Reading what you wrote and then reading this is like a joke.

But I have humour, so I take it with humour. If it helps yourself to live with your crap...

Now tag along and stop sticking your nose in the business of other nations. This kind of rude and arrogant behaviour that you display is getting on my nerves. Stay out of our business!

[SwordoftheVistula]

You're hilarious, foreigner. The two are different. Social democracy is a mixed economic system implementing capitalism. Silly soreigners always mix things up.

Social Democrat Party is one of the two main/largest parties in his country over the past century, with many Chancellors, including Gerhard Schroeder, the Chancellor prior to the current one. So I'd imagine Germans are pretty aware of what 'Social Democrats' are.

[Logan]

In what way..?


Not too similar being different types of murders, but both displayed a good intellect before their destemper. And both thought their eminations might be of interest to the sane.

[Agrippa]

You're hilarious, foreigner. The two are different. Social democracy is a mixed economic system implementing capitalism. Silly soreigners always mix things up.

Marxism was the root of both Social Democracy and Bolshevism/Communism. The difference is just that Social Democrats, like the name suggest already, wanted to reach the - basically same - goals in and with a democratic system.


Every single post you've ever made on this thread spells out your disregard for the Norwegian victims of this crime, your disrespect towards Norway and its people, as well as your hatred of our democracy and our freedoms.

Untrue. I just "disrespect" Cultural Marxism and Liberalism.

Whether we can come back to a better system in a democratic way or not, is open to debate.


Germany was formed in the 1800's (I might be generous here), Norway was formed in 872 AD. Anyone who can count, will give me right on this.

History starts with the written records and there were written records about the Germans lands and people, when nothing was known about Norwegians.

If you use the date of 1800's, which is idiotic, because a German culture and people, history and states existed before, I could very well start with your independence after being a colony...


What concern is it of yours what anyone does in my nation? My people are my people and not yours. Concentrate on our own country.

I care for all of Europe and what happens in Scandinavia is the blue print for Cultural Marxists, especially radical Feminists, in the rest of Europe. Just inform yourself.

[Hevneren]

Discussion forums are for discussion. :lightbul:

I understand why you might be feeling defensive or upset, but that does not give you the right to censor opposing viewpoints. You're also doing yourself a disservice by remaining closed-minded and emotionally driven (though, again, I suppose it's not unreasonable that you are in this context).

I take issue with foreigners who are clearly ignorant about conditions in my country, lecturing me. It's one of my greatest pet peeves. I've seen it in so many places, and it comes off as arrogant, rude, disrespectful and patronising. I've noticed it's always people from certain countries and especially those with a colonial past, who seem to feel entitled to lecture people from other parts of the world: Britain, Germany, the USA.

The three countries above represent the majority from which these arrogant, lecturing sorts come from. On Skadi, Germans were attempting to define Norwegian identity to me, and telling me how useless certain dialects and one of our written languages was! :mad:

The viewpoints are not censored by the way, but the fact that I know better than these arrogant foreigners on this matter, and yet the same nonsense is being spewed forth with a clear disregard to my protests, shows a clear lack of respect and lack of decency on the behalf of that person.

[Treffie]

Never! Where did you read that?

Here


Like I said, they were not innocent, but they were also not guilty in a way which would have justified anything coming even close to what Breivik did.

Yet, calling them "innocent" and "harmless", saying there is "no connection" and he was "just mad" is a huge belittlement.

He might be a psycho, but his decisions were based on a certain logical moment, that is obvious.

You've made your point, let's not backtrack.



Who cares for laws made up by their parents, to say it blunt.

Another weak argument. Or is it the law according to your own Nazi ideologies?


The problem is, that their organisation is spreading the memvirus, is very dangerous and harmful to Norwegians and Europe.

There you go again, you're implying justification.

[Jon Snow]

I take issue with foreigners who are clearly ignorant about conditions in my country, lecturing me. It's one of my greatest pet peeves. I've seen it in so many places, and it comes off as arrogant, rude, disrespectful and patronising. I've noticed it's always people from certain countries and especially those with a colonial past, who seem to feel entitled to lecture people from other parts of the world: Britain, Germany, the USA.

The three countries above represent the majority from which these arrogant, lecturing sorts come from. On Skadi, Germans were attempting to define Norwegian identity to me, and telling me how useless certain dialects and one of our written languages was! :mad:

The viewpoints are not censored by the way, but the fact that I know better than these arrogant foreigners on this matter, and yet the same nonsense is being spewed forth with a clear disregard to my protests, shows a clear lack of respect and lack of decency on the behalf of that person.

Right, well, I don't disagree with your premise, and obviously what you've described re: Skadi was out of line.

I'm just not sure that anyone was attempting to "lecture" you here, is all. :shrug:

[Hevneren]

First all, 12 percent of the population are foreigners officially, usually, the real numbers are always higher and most importantly, of these foreigners, the groups growing the fastest being usually the non-Europeans, Muslim or not, but with the Muslims having - quite often - some of the highest birthrates.[QUOTE]

Your ignorance is hysterical. You're a simple dumdfounded foreigner who cannot make any worthwhile posts about my nation and people. What kind of useless nonsense have you been spewing? It's only been your own opinions and nonsensical assumptions. You have nothing. You are simply completely ignorant, and your overwhelming arrogance in this matter is quite astounding.

[QUOTE]Also, who cares for the percentage of the total population? If it is about the future, it is about the younger ones, the children!

In various parts of - especially urban - Norway, among the school children foreigners are already the majority - it is the same scenario, in this respect like in many others, like it is in most European nations of the Western culture - and in the rest the foreigners coming in too, with local non-integrable minorities like the Gypsies having explosive birth rates and behaviour...


In no city in Norway are the foreigners in majority. Your ignorance just gets more and more apparent with every post, foreigner. As for the Gypsies, they come and then leave again, they don't stay on. Do you ever feel embarassed by being this ignorant and arrogant, foreigner?


The problem is, that their organisation is spreading the memvirus, is very dangerous and harmful to Norwegians and Europe.

No, it's extreme anti-Norwegian, anti-democratic people like you who are a danger to my people and nation.


Not because of "classic Social Democratic policy", which I often support myself, especially if it is about social justice, care and thoughtfulness, but because of their cooperation with the Plutocracy, the debt slavery they let into the system, their help for the Neoliberal policy, despite their "Social Democratic ideals" and of course their promotion of the multicultural-multiracial, pseudo-plural societal model, which is an abomination, takes away all defence mechanisms of the Europeans and leads, together with the internal degeneration in the Feminised society to the outbreeding and death of the Norwegian - as well as, by spreading that memvirus elsewhere, in other countries.

You're simply writing a massive concoction of words without meaning. You're making things up, pure and simple. You simply know nothing about my country, and it shows loud and clear. You are simply utterly and completely ignorant. It's time to stop embarrassing yourself.

[Hevneren]

Seriously, this guy talked about "Norway has no Marxists".

How do you call that? Great and reasonable insights from an intelligent Norwegian citizen?

:rolleyes2:

Don't lie and twist my words. The Labour Party isn't Marxist. We have no Marxists in power. Your dishonesty, ignorance and arrogance is really astonishing. Please quit while you can. You're embarrassing yourself.

[Agrippa]

Here

You've made your point, let's not backtrack.

I said minimum three times, that the guilt they had, justified not to hurt or even kill them, so whether they are GENERALLY INNOCENT or deserved what Breivik did are completely different things.


Another weak argument. Or is it the law according to your own Nazi ideologies?

First I don't consider myself a "Nazi" and second I stick to what I perceive as being logical, useful, right or wrong.

Many of those in the camp have prominent relatives in the party, this party is in the goverment, so it is not too far fetched to say that many of their relatives made the laws which are legal right in Norway.


There you go again, you're implying justification.

I justify to fight this sick memvirus and poltical abomination, but not to murder those people just like Breivik did.

Talking about "the Nazis", not even "the Nazis" killed all members of the most hostile organisations they faced - only very few, which made very concrete things, were taken out - a lot came into prison, with a lot of them getting out of it soon and the majority being left alone, just the organisations were forbidden.

So "not even the Nazis" would have been fond of indiscriminately killing the own youth, even if they are a part of a hostile organisation.

That I want to fight them politically, because they are a threat and problem to Norwegians and Europe as a whole, doesn't mean I justify their murder. A political fight doesn't have to mean that you want to "kill all political enemies", you know...

Violence is something which should always be avoided, because it causes pain and victims. Only if there is no other choice for defending vital interests, violence is a justified tool for me.

I thought I made that clear, but probably you just want to pick on me...


Don't lie and twist my words. The Labour Party isn't Marxist. We have no Marxists in power. Your dishonesty, ignorance and arrogance is really astonishing. Please quit while you can. You're embarrassing yourself.

a) Cultural Marxism is the modern, rampant form of Marxism in the West, being promoted by all mainstream parties by now, but especially the "traditional left", so Social Democrats, Communists, Green Parties and other leftists.

b) Social democracy stems from and has a Marxist tradition. If you deny that, you have just no idea of history.

c) Even if they are no "classic Marxists" any longer, like many "Christian-Conservative" parties are no longer really Christian nor really Conservative in the classic European sense, they still have their tradition and it shaped the party and what it stands for.

You can call that "moderate" or whatever, but it is still a Marxist party and even if they wouldn't be, there are other Marxist movements and elements in the Social party, showing links to the extremist Left and being radical in a Communist or more modern Cultural Marxist way.

[Hevneren]

Many sources report this political party, which had the camp for children to brainwash, was anti-Israel and anti-capitalist. Who hates Jews and Capitalists? Who runs political camps for children? The Nazis do.

http://radiopatriot.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/norwegian-campsite-utoya-was-socialist-and-anti-israel/

The day before Anders Behring Breivik opened fire on youths at a Labor Party camp, organizers welcomed the country’s foreign minister. Now, the foreign minister’s message from that day has been revealed: it was an anti-Israel speech in which he came out in strong support of a Palestinian state. That message was something being supported by the camp’s attendees, who were part of the ruling Labor Party’s socialist youth movement called AUF.

The Labor Party, which is Norway’s largest political party, also trumpets socialist thought. A translated explanation of the party says it wants “a strong welfare state, controlled by the government and financed through taxes and duties beyond the nation’s income.”

“‘Work for all,’” it adds, “has been the party kampsak [or motto] since the 1930s.”


The Labour Party is neither anti-capitalist nor anti-Semitic. You are just another misinformed foreigner. The Labour Party is one of the parties that supports both the government and private enterprise. They're for a mixed economy, or social democracy, which is common all over the world, even the USA.

The anti-Semitism BS is a common tactic used to silence people, and in this case it's used to tarnish the reputation of one of the oldest and most respectable parties in Norwegian history who lead Norwegians in their fight against Nazism and took part in rebuilding the country after the fascist Nazi occupation. Many resistance fighters were Labour Party members. The very notion that the Labour Party is anti-Semitic, is so ludicrous and nonsensical only an ignorant American or Israeli could've made such an outlandish accusation.

The truth is that days before the Zionist sub-human decided to gun down all these innocent unarmed kids, they were holding a protest against Israeli occupation of Palestine. They called for a boycott of the international pariah state of Israel, who violates UN resolutions left, right and centre, but the Foreign Minister (Labour Party) said that boycott was not the best option.

Unlike you right-wing Americans who support Israel at every turn, we Norwegians can see the conflict as it is since we aren't joined to the hip like Siamese twins with Israel, funding them billions each year. You in the USA must pay your taxes for Israel, and lobbyists work around the clock for Israel's interests. Again, we don't have this system.

[Agrippa]

Actually I can even agree with your last post, but this if fun:

The truth is that days before the Zionist sub-human

Seems you are "more Nazi" than I am at times at least :D

[Treffie]

I said minimum three times, that the guilt they had, justified not to hurt or even kill them, so whether they are GENERALLY INNOCENT or deserved what Breivik did are completely different things.

Listen Agrippa, it's really not difficult, they were completely innocent. They had no guilt at all due to the fact that they had committed no crime. Perhaps it's a crime as far as you are concerned, but not a crime punishable by law.


I thought I made that clear, but probably you just want to pick on me...

No, I do not want to pick on you. But by stating that these kids by association, were guilty in some way is completely out of order.

[SS-Nordland]

As for the start, Anders Breivik was NOT pro-white/pro-european on a racial sence. He himself stated to be "anti-racist" and "pro-homosexual" among other things. Therefore we must look for his motives somewhere else than him wanting to preserve the norwegian ethnicity and securing the safety of his own people.

The things we know are the facts that he was a freemason and a zionist and never tried to deny neither of those. He beleived that islam was a CULTURAL threat to Norway and Europe, but not because he would have cared about the negative efects it has on the norwegian people and racial heritage it self, but because he was afraid that islam would be too much of an opponent to his judeo-christian, zionist values and the modern degenerated western society and its ultra-materialistic values he himself supported as a freemason.


As for the targets, he´s thoughts were either infantile or impulsive due to the camps anti-israel background. The children who he killed were not yet left wing extremists, most of them propably wouldn´t ever have even become politically active on a level that it would actually make a difference. On a summer camp held by the largest and leading party of Norway there are young people for various reasons. Some came with a friend, whose parents were involved in the party and they might have invited a couple of more friends just to go on a summer camp to socialize and see other young people.
The young people going there independetly and because of direct political support were probalby a minority. He also shot children at the age just able to tie their own shoelaces. How do you politically justify killing children from three to six years of age. In absolutely no way.



If he was such a brave and heroic man willing to throw away anything for his noble cause, why did he choose to go on a killing spree in a childrens summer camp and not in the norwegian parlament or an official party meeting for example? Preforming a some kind a revolution by shooting children is absolute nonsence, no matter how you see it. He´s "logic" was either delusional or retarded, unless there was another reason behind it. Anyway the idea of killing the new generation of liberal politicians doesn´t count since he can´t predict which of the children he murdered would have actually become politically active in the social-democrat party, which would just have lived like the avarage norwgian and which would have later on turned against the norwegian politics and joined the opposing forces. That is the difference between a child and an adult.


Summa summarum, what he did had in the end only negative effects and will cause harm to the truly pro-white movement for many years to come. In the finnish, jewish owned media, they immediately started linking breivik and finnish national socialists together starting to create an illusion of the "big threat" of the "far right", making avarage people to beleive that all the people that are "anti-immigration" are the same and that is the group what breivik presented. If you want to do something it isn´t enough just to do it somehow. You must also do it correclty. Even if breiviks motivation was to oppose only islamic immigration and liberal politics, when we see how things have gone after the attack,( social democrat partys support higher than ever, jewish media game and one more weapon against the pro-white movement of europe) we can certainly say that he failed totally unless this, the total opposite, was actually his true goal.

[Hevneren]

Marxism was the root of both Social Democracy and Bolshevism/Communism. The difference is just that Social Democrats, like the name suggest already, wanted to reach the - basically same - goals in and with a democratic system.

No, social democracy is a mixed system. You really know nothing.


Untrue. I just "disrespect" Cultural Marxism and Liberalism.

Your ignorant, rude, hateful, disrespectful and arrogant posts show something else.


Whether we can come back to a better system in a democratic way or not, is open to debate.

We already have a "better system" than where you live, obviously. I thought you were German, but it turns out you're an Austrian. Even better! The home of Hitler, and not a real national identity until the 1950's. :D


History starts with the written records and there were written records about the Germans lands and people, when nothing was known about Norwegians.

No, there was no mention of "a German people" in ancient times. There were many peoples living in Germania, but no unified German people. Does your lies and ignorance know no limits? :eek:


If you use the date of 1800's, which is idiotic, because a German culture and people, history and states existed before, I could very well start with your independence after being a colony...

I started by telling you that my nation is olde than Germany, and I'm right. There was no unified nation named Germany in 872 AD. I rest my case.


I care for all of Europe and what happens in Scandinavia is the blue print for Cultural Marxists, especially radical Feminists, in the rest of Europe. Just inform yourself.

Nonsense. You clearly know nothing about Norway, and thus all your assertions are simply that. You are nothing but an ignorant, arrogant foreigner with no understanding of my nation and people! Be gone!

[Hevneren]

a) Cultural Marxism is the modern, rampant form of Marxism in the West, being promoted by all mainstream parties by now, but especially the "traditional left", so Social Democrats, Communists, Green Parties and other leftists.

b) Social democracy stems from and has a Marxist tradition. If you deny that, you have just no idea of history.

c) Even if they are no "classic Marxists" any longer, like many "Christian-Conservative" parties are no longer really Christian nor really Conservative in the classic European sense, they still have their tradition and it shaped the party and what it stands for.

You can call that "moderate" or whatever, but it is still a Marxist party and even if they wouldn't be, there are other Marxist movements and elements in the Social party, showing links to the extremist Left and being radical in a Communist or more modern Cultural Marxist way.

Social democracy isn't the same as Marxism. One is mixed economy and democratic, the other isn't. You simply don't understand the simplest things, and obviously you are utterly clueless about my nation and people, so your arrogant attempt at lecturing me about my own nation and people is rather ludicrous. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[SwordoftheVistula]

They called for a boycott of the international pariah state of Israel

So yes, anti-semitic/neo-nazi. Just sayin'.

[Agrippa]

Listen Agrippa, it's really not difficult, they were completely innocent. They had no guilt at all due to the fact that they had committed no crime. Perhaps it's a crime as far as you are concerned, but not a crime punishable by law.

Agreed on that, but since when is justice just a question of the law?

They were innocent BEFORE THE LAW, and I would probably agree that they don't deserve ANY punishment (not even talking about what the maniac did), but guilt and innocense is more than law, more than "a crime punishable by the law".

There are immoral and bad things, people can do to each other or in a greater context, like in the economy and state, which are not illegal, but still they are immoral and produce guilt.

For example what some Plutocrats do, what some speculators do - or what some Saudis do to their housekeepers for example, do you really think, just because there is no law making this a criminal act, they are "innocent"?

Being innocent or not in front of a judge is one thing, being it in another context a very different thing.

Just because the law makes one person "guilty", which did nothing morally wrong for most people even and another person "innocent", which did something most people despise, doesn't change anything.

You get my point? I agree most of them deserved not really punishment and even if their actions would be punishable, laws should be changed accordingly.

But that doesn't mean that they are completely innocent in another, a political and societal context.

The laws being written by those in charge largely, so what do you expect?


No, I do not want to pick on you. But by stating that these kids by association, were guilty in some way is completely out of order.

No it isn't. Only if you can't differentiate between the murders, the political question and the judicial one.

That are different things in my book.

There are law abiding assholes and law breaking angels, to say it blunt.


Social democracy isn't the same as Marxism. One is mixed economy and democratic, the other isn't. You simply don't understand the simplest things, and obviously you are utterly clueless about my nation and people, so your arrogant attempt at lecturing me about my own nation and people is rather ludicrous. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

What kind of school did you make?

Educate yourself about the origins of "Social Democracy":


Social democracy is a political ideology of the center-left on the political spectrum. Social democracy is officially a form of evolutionary reformist socialism.[1] Social democracy supports class collaboration as the course to achieve socialism.[2] Social democracy advocates the creation of legal reforms and economic redistribution programs to eliminate economic class disparities between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.[3] The Frankfurt Declaration of the Socialist International in 1951, attended by many social democratic parties from across the world, committed adherents to oppose Bolshevik communism and Stalinism, and to promote a gradual transformation of capitalism into socialism


In the 19th Century, the term "Social Democrat" was used as a broad catch-all for international socialists owing their basic ideological allegiance to Karl Marx or Ferdinand Lassalle, in contrast to those advocating various forms of utopian socialism.


The social democrats, who had created the largest socialist organizations of that era, did not reject Marxism (and in fact claimed to uphold it), but a number of key individuals wanted to reform Marx's arguments in order to promulgate a less hostile criticism of capitalism. They argued that socialism should be achieved through evolution of society rather than revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

[SwordoftheVistula]

Social democracy isn't the same as Marxism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

the term "Social Democrat" was used as a broad catch-all for international socialists owing their basic ideological allegiance to Karl Marx

[Hevneren]

So yes, anti-semitic/neo-nazi. Just sayin'.

No, being critical against the State of Israel isn't anti-Semitism, and it's sad that you've been so brainwashed to think that you can't criticise anything Israel does. You really need to understand what you're talking about rather to make ignorant statements like these.

[Hevneren]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

the term "Social Democrat" was used as a broad catch-all for international socialists owing their basic ideological allegiance to Karl Marx

And Karl Marx said he wasn't a Marxist. Listen, Social Democracy is different from Marxism, hence the two different words. One is mixed and democraticand the other is not.

[Agrippa]

And Karl Marx said he wasn't a Marxist. Listen, Social Democracy is different from Marxism, hence the two different words. One is mixed and democraticand the other is not.

You listen: There were and are two more common forms of Socialism-Marxism:
- Communism/Bolshevism (Maoism and other more exotic forms of Marxist dictatorship)
- Social Democracy/Democratic Socialism

That are two branches of the same tree.

We all know they are not the same, but they are both Marxist in origin.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Pretty much a neutral observer here. The Jews clearly feel threatened by the rhetoric expressed by the Norwegian Labor Party. As such, it should rightly be designated a neo-nazi extremist party. Whether one supports neo-nazi extremist parties is a matter of personal choice. Personally, I like the musical concerts they put on, but wouldn't want one in charge of my country. This Norwegian anti-semitic/anti-Israel party appears to only have lame music, and is therefore worthless.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/08/norway-attacks-israel-again-on-jpost-op.html

Norway is continuing its self-righteous attacks on Israel...Norway actually sympathizes with Hamas. And there is no difference between Hamas' 'political' and 'military' 'wings.' They are one and the same...So then why did Norway oppose Israel's war of self-defense against terrorism - Operation Cast Lead - in December 2008 and January 2009? Not only did Norway oppose that war, its government actively sought to undermine it...Sorry, Ambassador Sevje. Talk is cheap. Your country's actions don't show friendship toward Israel. If anything, they show a visceral hatred for Israel and Jews and a level of sympathy for 'Palestinian' terrorism that is unmatched outside the Arab world.

[SwordoftheVistula]

And Karl Marx said he wasn't a Marxist

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/1/2/6/0/1/facepalm.jpg

[Hevneren]

You listen: There were and are two more common forms of Socialism-Marxism:
- Communism/Bolshevism (Maoism and other more exotic forms of Marxist dictatorship)
- Social Democracy/Democratic Socialism

That are two branches of the same tree.

We all know they are not the same, but they are both Marxist in origin.


I see you are backtracking again, after posting so many lies and distortions. So, now it's suddenly "two branches" and not the same? You are such an ignorant person, how do you live with yourself? :D

[Hevneren]

Pretty much a neutral observer here. The Jews clearly feel threatened by the rhetoric expressed by the Norwegian Labor Party. As such, it should rightly be designated a neo-nazi extremist party. Whether one supports neo-nazi extremist parties is a matter of personal choice. Personally, I like the musical concerts they put on, but wouldn't want one in charge of my country. This Norwegian anti-semitic/anti-Israel party appears to only have lame music, and is therefore worthless.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/08/norway-attacks-israel-again-on-jpost-op.html

Norway is continuing its self-righteous attacks on Israel...Norway actually sympathizes with Hamas. And there is no difference between Hamas' 'political' and 'military' 'wings.' They are one and the same...So then why did Norway oppose Israel's war of self-defense against terrorism - Operation Cast Lead - in December 2008 and January 2009? Not only did Norway oppose that war, its government actively sought to undermine it...Sorry, Ambassador Sevje. Talk is cheap. Your country's actions don't show friendship toward Israel. If anything, they show a visceral hatred for Israel and Jews and a level of sympathy for 'Palestinian' terrorism that is unmatched outside the Arab world.

Is this post supposed to be a joke? I know that you are ignorant about Norway and our Labour Party, so maybe you think this nonsense is true, but I just have to ask if you're kidding or not? You're making inflammatory accusations without any support, and you're linking a random Israeli calling the Labour Party anti-Semitic? Have you even bothered checking your source? The quote contains agenda-driven nonsense and jingoistic rhetoric. :rolleyes2:

[Agrippa]

I see you are backtracking again, after posting so many lies and distortions. So, now it's suddenly "two branches" and not the same? You are such an ignorant person, how do you live with yourself? :D

And you are a troll.

What I did was like speaking about humans, and them making a distinctions between males and females, or different races.

But this distinctions of males and females or race x and y still leaves us with the fact, that we are still talking about humans.

Same here, I was talking about Marxists. Social Democrats are - in their origin and with many of their ideas at least - Marxists.

But I see, at least you understood and hopefully stop trolling around with "there are no Marxists in Norway" nonsense, if they are officially in the government, even if they are traitors to their most noble own (Marxist) principles and being now just the bootlickers of the Plutocracy and the spreader of the Cultural Marxist disease.

Actually, they are traitors to the workers, the common people - as well as to the Norwegian people with their Neoliberal policy.

And even if they still are, in some respects, better than some EU-Social Democrats/New Labour like Neoliberal clones, they are bad enough for being named as what they are, a political problem.

[Hevneren]

And you are a troll.

What I did was like speaking about humans, and them making a distinctions between males and females, or different races.

But this distinctions of males and females or race x and y still leaves us with the fact, that we are still talking about humans.

Same here, I was talking about Marxists. Social Democrats are - in their origin and with many of their ideas at least - Marxists.

But I see, at least you understood and hopefully stop trolling around with "there are no Marxists in Norway" nonsense, if they are officially in the government, even if they are traitors to their most noble own (Marxist) principles and being now just the bootlickers of the Plutocracy and the spreader of the Cultural Marxist disease.

Actually, they are traitors to the workers, the common people - as well as to the Norwegian people with their Neoliberal policy.

And even if they still are, in some respects, better than some EU-Social Democrats/New Labour like Neoliberal clones, they are bad enough for being named as what they are, a political problem.

There's no Marxist government in Norway, yes, and your obsession with this is very strange to say the least. Then again, your ignorance about my country is astounding, and so is your arrogance. Really, just give up before you embarrass yourself. Your attempts to lecture me about my own country is futile. You simply know nothing.

[SwordoftheVistula]

a random Israeli calling the Labour Party anti-Semitic?

Well he is a Jew, who feels it is an anti-semitic party. Generally, the Jews get to decide who is 'anti-semitic', since they are Jews after all.

[Hevneren]

Well he is a Jew, who feels it is an anti-semitic party. Generally, the Jews get to decide who is 'anti-semitic', since they are Jews after all.

Are you attempting to be sarcastic?

[SwordoftheVistula]

There's no Marxist government in Norway

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514F6V9PFYL.jpg

[Hevneren]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514F6V9PFYL.jpg

Your trolling and out of date comedy doesn't change the fact that we have no Marxist government. Being an ignorant foreigner, this is hard for you to understand, but the propaganda you've been told was wrong.

[Agrippa]

There's no Marxist government in Norway, yes, and your obsession with this is very strange to say the least. Then again, your ignorance about my country is astounding, and so is your arrogance. Really, just give up before you embarrass yourself. Your attempts to lecture me about my own country is futile. You simply know nothing.

Ok, for now I stop feeding the troll, I hope you enjoyed it :thumbs up

[The Lawspeaker]

Hevneren: How much are the NSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasjonal_sikkerhetsmyndighet) and "Sosial" "demokratene" paying you ??

[Hevneren]

Ok, for now I stop feeding the troll, I hope you enjoyed it :thumbs up

Yes, go off to to worry about your own country rather than spreading your ignorant nonsense about my country. Learn to mind your own business, boy.

[Hevneren]

Hevneren: How much are the NSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasjonal_sikkerhetsmyndighet) and "Sosial" "demokratene" paying you ??

First of all, what does my person have to do with this thread? I'm pretty sure that's off-topic?

Second of all, I find your lowly ad hominem on my character to be a sign of someone who is of low character himself.

If you want to personally attack me, I suggest you do it through PM.

[The Lawspeaker]

First of all, what does my person have to do with this thread? I'm pretty sure that's off-topic?

Second of all, I find your lowly ad hominem on my character to be a sign of someone who is of low character himself.

If you want to personally attack me, I suggest you do it through PM.
I asked you a question because there is something about your posts in this thread that I find to be extremely suspect. You know that some governments are using professional trolls and I looked at the way in which the Norwegian Left quickly tried to demonise everything that was even remotely right-wing after what happened in Oslo and on Utøya - using it for cheap political gain.

I may not be Norwegian but I read the papers and I read that the Left was facing rough weather with Fremskrittspartiet poised to win the upcoming elections. And now Breivik's one blue Monday (he was only a member for a very brief moment) membership of that party is used to demonise them and it seems to work with the Norwegians scurrying back to the demons that have led their country into this godforsaken mess: the social democrats.

The Left tried to do the same thing here and it backfired when they said that Breivik was inspired by Geert Wilders.

[Hevneren]

I asked you a question because there is something about your posts in this thread that I find to be extremely suspect. You know that some governments are using professional trolls and I looked at the way in which the Norwegian Left quickly tried to demonise everything that was even remotely right-wing after what happened in Oslo and on Utøya - using it for cheap political gain.

I may not be Norwegian but I read the papers and I read that the left was facing rough waters with Fremskrittspartiet poised to win the elections. And now Breivik's one blue Monday membership of that party is used to demonise them and it seems to work.

The Left tried to do the same thing here and it backfired when they said that Breivik was inspired by Geert Wilders.


Like many of the other foreigners on here you are simply ignorant about my nation and people. Not only that, but you seem to think that I should sit here calmly and let foreigners attack my people, my nation, disrespect those who were killed, disrespect the mourning families and praise the mass murderer as brave. That's not going to happen.

I'm going to fight people like Agrippa on here and wherever or however I can, because his sort lacks decency, respect, knowledge, understanding or any common sense. He's an empty vessel and has chosen to get filled up with propaganda and nonsense. When people like that make complete and utter nonsensical utterances about my nation and people, I dig down my heels and will not budge until the ignorant and arrogant person chooses to show some respect and starts to learn about my nation and people and listen to us natives, rather than make up stories.

As for the Frp, they weren't set to win this election. Not even our Conservative Party (Høyre) have wanted to cooperate with them, as they have an irresponsible economic policy of lower taxes and more spending. Our Labour Party is far more fiscally responsible than them, and Labour Party member and PM Stoltenbeg is himself an economist. The most irresponsible party in our coalition government is SV (Socialist Left). Labour is actually quite moderate in most cases.

The two most irresponsible parties are the Socialist Left and the Venstre (Liberal Party), which is a centre-right party that wants open borders, contrary to what Labour wants.

So, as I mentioned, you foreigners need to listen and learn rather than opening your mouths without thinking or knowing anything and loudly announcing your ignorant beliefs.

[The Lawspeaker]

Now I am sure: you are one of those paid trolls as I never attacked the Norwegian people (as a matter of fact I like them a lot) but I did attack the corrupt Sosialdemokratene that you so happily. It's funny because I read in mainstream Dutch newspapers that they were poised to win and I am less ignorant about your country then you think you are as the country has had my sincere interest for the past years.

I make the distinction between hating a political party and disliking the country. As a matter of fact if a foreigner would attack the Partij van de Arbeid (not that they ever stood for the arbeider.. the worker but o.k) he would find me agreeing with him as these people are traitors to their country like the Sosialdemokraterne are traitors to yours.


Sosialdemokratene is the new Nasjonal Samling.

[_______]

A statistic for those who think Norway is "overrun" by muslims:

ca. 12% of Norways total population are immigrants(the two largest immigrant groups are Swedes and Poles) and about 3.4% of immigrants are muslims.


88% Norwegians
3.4% Muslims

I hardly call that being overrun...

absolutely! i envy norway in this regard! :thumb001:

[The Lawspeaker]

absolutely! i envy norway in this regard! :thumb001:
They have been relatively lucky.. for now. But thanks to the Left this will change soon.

[_______]

They have been relatively lucky.. for now. But thanks to the Left this will change soon.


lucky? i call it sensible! :D

[The Lawspeaker]

lucky? i call it sensible! :D
They have been lucky. Lucky that Norway is all the way up there... what has entered the country seems to have been causing enough headaches as it is. The place is run by social democrats with a pretty much open border policy.

[Bridie]

We understood what you wrote the first time and didnt take any notice of it,but thanks for repeating it all the same.You have a problem with comprehension if you think that I was repeating myself.



Ever thought about a career in international diplomacy...?...im sure with your ozzie common sense and down to earthness you could have the Libyan mess sorted out in two minutes flat.:rolleyes:

You're right. I should consider it. ;)

[Hevneren]

Now I am sure: you are one of those paid trolls as I never attacked the Norwegian people (as a matter of fact I like them a lot) but I did attack the corrupt Sosialdemokratene that you so happily. It's funny because I read in mainstream Dutch newspapers that they were poised to win and I am less ignorant about your country then you think you are as the country has had my sincere interest for the past years.

More ad hominems. What a surprise! And for your record, there is no "Sosialdemokratene" here, if you're talking about a party. I'd advise you to not blame me, a native, for your own ignorance about my country. The party is called Arbeiderparties (Labour Party), and what's your evidence that they're corrupt? Or is that just an accusation you took out of thin air?


I make the distinction between hating a political party and disliking the country. As a matter of fact if a foreigner would attack the Partij van de Arbeid (not that they ever stood for the arbeider.. the worker but o.k) he would find me agreeing with him as these people are traitors to their country like the Sosialdemokraterne are traitors to yours.

Again, no such party as "Sosialdemokratene" exists in Norway, and the spelling "Sosialdemokraterne" isn't even proper Norwegian language. There might be a Danish party called Socialdemokraterne, and I know there's a Swedish Socialdemokraterna. A pro tip for an ignorant foreigner like yourself would be to actually get the country and name of the party right, before you make wild accusations about it.

As I've already mentioned, foreigners like yourself need to think, learn and listen before they open their mouths to loudly proclaim ignorant statements about my nation and people. Rather than ignoring and lecturing a native about their nation and people, you might actually learn something by listening to them. It's utterly disrespectful of you, as an ignorant foreigner, to loudly proclaim your views while ignoring a more informed native.


Sosialdemokratene is the new Nasjonal Samling.

Even if you got the party and nation right, this is a rather ludicrous comparison. The Swedish Socialdemokraterna are nothing like the fascist, far-right Nasjonal Samling, and I think a Swede could attest to that.

[Aces High]

Not too similar being different types of murders, but both displayed a good intellect before their destemper. And both thought their eminations might be of interest to the sane.

Bit of a thin connection although i see what you mean.

Bundy only thought his actions might be of any interest when he thought he could use himself as a bargaining chip to gain a life sentence or delay his execution.....when he knew they were still going to kill him he lost interest really in helping the authorities unless he could gain something out of it....very manipulative.

Breivik on the other hand wasnt doing what he did to feed some selfish need,he see's himself as benevolent and see's what he did as doing Norway a favour in the long run.
I doubt he would ever kill again if let out but Bundy was an out and out killer and as soon as he escaped he went straight back to killing.

[Hevneren]

They have been lucky. Lucky that Norway is all the way up there... what has entered the country seems to have been causing enough headaches as it is. The place is run by social democrats with a pretty much open border policy.


Actually, the Labour Party has made steps to make our immigration policy stricter. While they're not nearly as strict as I'd wish they were, there aren't really any other viable alternatives. The Progress Party is fiscally irresponsible.

[The Lawspeaker]

Actually, the Labour Party has made steps to make our immigration policy stricter. While they're not nearly as strict as I'd wish they were, there aren't really any other viable alternatives. The Progress Party is fiscally irresponsible.
And you are just repeating party propaganda. The Labour Party has clearly stated that it sees no reason to abandon multiculturalism.

[Hevneren]

And you are just repeating party propaganda. The Labour Party has clearly stated that it sees no reason to abandon multiculturalism.


No, living here I actually know what I'm talking about, unlike some uppity foreigner. No party is sufficiently anti-multiculturalist, at least not among the mainstream parties, but the Labour Party does in fact not advocate an open border policy, and they're not radical. A lot of left-wingers in fact bemoan that the Labour Party is too moderate.

[The Lawspeaker]

That's funny because the press here said something completely different ("Norway will continue to uphold multiculturalism"-- much to the applause of the Left here btw who continued to repeat the mantra that it not just been an attack on Norwegians but on socialdemocrats and that) and I am more inclined to believe my press then some guy that is just spouting party propaganda.

Het Parool (http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/5/POLITIEK/article/detail/2823640/2011/07/30/Ideologie-van-haat-voedde-Noorse-dader.dhtml) quoted it nicely (Ed van Thijn.. ex- mayor of Amsterdam):

Ik heb dan ook grote bewondering voor de Noorse premier, Jens Stoltenberg, die zei: 'Op dit bloedbad past maar één antwoord: meer democratie.' Het is wel heel onverdiend dat uitgerekend onze Noorse partijgenoten slachtoffer zijn geworden van deze uitbarsting van haat. In heel Europa zijn in de afgelopen jaren sociaaldemocraten in gebreke gebleven om zich, op grond van hun principes, te weer te stellen tegen de aanvallen van extreem rechts. Uit angst, electorale angst, maar ook uit principeloosheid. We laten ons zielloos uitmaken voor alles wat vies en voos is. We zijn de partij van de massa-immigratie, van het multiculturalisme, verkwanselaars van de vrijheid, enz. Zo niet de Noorse Arbeiderspartij. Overal in Europa is de afkeer van vreemdelingen in opmars. In Frankrijk, Oostenrijk, Finland. In Denemarken heerst het Deense model, inmiddels door ons gekopieerd. Met een anti-islampartij die al gedogende aan de touwtjes trekt.

Zo niet in Noorwegen. Daar is de Partij voor de Vooruitgang tweede partij. Maar anders dan in Denemarken gaf de Arbeiderspartij geen krimp en versterkte ze zelfs haar positie als nummer 1 dankzij Stoltenberg, zo kunnen we deze dagen zien, een sociaaldemocraat met een rechte rug. Zelfrespect in weerbaarheid, dat is hét antwoord op haat. Meer openheid en democratie, zei Stoltenberg na de aanslag. Zo is dat. Een rechte rug en daarmee een voorbeeld voor ons allen."

"I have great admiration for the Norwegian Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg, that said: "on this massacre there is but one answer: more democracy." It is completely undeserved that our Norwegian party comrades have been victimised by this hate. All over Europe, the social democrats have been unable to, as based on their principles, defend themselves against the attacks of the extreme right. Out of fear, electoral fear, but also out of a lack of principles, have we allowed ourselves to be torn apart by malicious words. We are the party of the mass migration, of multiculturalism, those that give our freedoms away etc. Not so in the Norwegian Labour Party. All over Europe, hatred against immigrants is on the march. In France, Austria and Finland. In Denmark, the Danish model, copied by us (Dutch). With an anti-Islam party that is now, while in a supporting mode, running the show.

Not so in Norway. There the Progress Party is the second party but other then in Denmark the Labour Party did not allow itself to be frightened and it reinforced it's position as the number 1 thanks to Stoltenberg, that's what we can see these days: self-respect in a spirit of defence that's the answer to hatred. More openness and democracy, Stoltenberg said after the attack. That's it. A straight back and therefore an example to us all.

Of course what he doesn't say NOS did. The Progress Party was immediately demonised by the social democrats. And in the Netherlands the Left tried to do the same thing with the PVV.. luckily that backfired immensely. And so bad now that their electoral position is pretty much hopeless and that's what filthy traitors deserve.

[Hevneren]

That's funny because the press here said something completely different ("Norway will continue to uphold multiculturalism"-- much to the applause of the Left here btw who continued to repeat the mantra that it not just been an attack on Norwegians but on socialdemocrats and that) and I am more inclined to believe my press then some guy that is just spouting party propaganda.

Het Parool (http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/5/POLITIEK/article/detail/2823640/2011/07/30/Ideologie-van-haat-voedde-Noorse-dader.dhtml) quoted it nicely (Ed van Thijn.. ex- mayor of Amsterdam):

Ik heb dan ook grote bewondering voor de Noorse premier, Jens Stoltenberg, die zei: 'Op dit bloedbad past maar één antwoord: meer democratie.' Het is wel heel onverdiend dat uitgerekend onze Noorse partijgenoten slachtoffer zijn geworden van deze uitbarsting van haat. In heel Europa zijn in de afgelopen jaren sociaaldemocraten in gebreke gebleven om zich, op grond van hun principes, te weer te stellen tegen de aanvallen van extreem rechts. Uit angst, electorale angst, maar ook uit principeloosheid. We laten ons zielloos uitmaken voor alles wat vies en voos is. We zijn de partij van de massa-immigratie, van het multiculturalisme, verkwanselaars van de vrijheid, enz. Zo niet de Noorse Arbeiderspartij. Overal in Europa is de afkeer van vreemdelingen in opmars. In Frankrijk, Oostenrijk, Finland. In Denemarken heerst het Deense model, inmiddels door ons gekopieerd. Met een anti-islampartij die al gedogende aan de touwtjes trekt.

Zo niet in Noorwegen. Daar is de Partij voor de Vooruitgang tweede partij. Maar anders dan in Denemarken gaf de Arbeiderspartij geen krimp en versterkte ze zelfs haar positie als nummer 1 dankzij Stoltenberg, zo kunnen we deze dagen zien, een sociaaldemocraat met een rechte rug. Zelfrespect in weerbaarheid, dat is hét antwoord op haat. Meer openheid en democratie, zei Stoltenberg na de aanslag. Zo is dat. Een rechte rug en daarmee een voorbeeld voor ons allen."

"I have great admiration for the Norwegian Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg, that said: "on this massacre there is but one answer: more democracy." It is completely undeserved that our Norwegian party comrades have been victimised by this hate. All over Europe, the social democrats have been unable to, as based on their principles, defend themselves against the attacks of the extreme right. Out of fear, electoral fear, but also out of a lack of principles, have we allowed ourselves to be torn apart by malicious words. We are the party of the mass migration, of multiculturalism, those that give our freedoms away etc. Not so in the Norwegian Labour Party. All over Europe, hatred against immigrants is on the march. In France, Austria and Finland. In Denmark, the Danish model, copied by us (Dutch). With an anti-Islam party that is now, while in a supporting mode, running the show.

Not so in Norway. There the Progress Party is the second party but other then in Denmark the Labour Party did not allow itself to be frightened and it reinforced it's position as the number 1 thanks to Stoltenberg, that's what we can see these days: self-respect in a spirit of defence that's the answer to hatred. More openness and democracy, Stoltenberg said after the attack. That's it. A straight back and therefore an example to us all.

Of course what he doesn't say NOS did. The Progress Party was immediately demonised by the social democrats. And in the Netherlands the Left tried to do the same thing with the PVV.. luckily that backfired immensely. And so bad now that their electoral position is pretty much hopeless and that's what filthy traitors deserve.

First of all, where does any member of the Labour Party say they'll "maintain multiculturalism", in the piece you quoted?

Second of all, how does a Dutch piece on the Labour Party, talking about democracy, refute what I stated about the Labour Party being moderate and not having an open border policy?

Third of all, are you going to acknowledge that you got the name of the party wrong, and that you're now misinterpreting your own source?

Fourth of all, will you finally acknowledge that as a foreigner ignorant about Norway and its people, it would be wise of you to listen to a native rather than persisting in being arrogant, and obnoxiously lecturing me?

[The Lawspeaker]

1. NOS did a couple of times in the newsreels. And I trust them a lot more then I trust someone that is clearly working for the "Labour" Party -- as you have given yourself away by attacking other parties.

2. If you read it again you can read between the lines. Did you actually frequent Utøya as well when you were younger ? ;)

And third: will you acknowledge that people are entitled to hold different opinions about what happened ? Or are you inspired by Karl Marx that you don't like people holding other ideas ?

[Hevneren]

1. NOS did a couple of times in the newsreels. And I trust them a lot more then I trust someone that is clearly working for the "Labour" Party -- as you have given yourself away by attacking other parties.

2. If you read it again you can read between the lines. Did you actually frequent Utøya as well when you were younger ? ;)

And third: will you acknowledge that people are entitled to hold different opinions about what happened ? Or are you inspired by Karl Marx that you don't like people holding other ideas ?


1. No it didn't. Show me the exact quote where a Labour Party official says they'll "maintain multiculturalism". Please don't start lying, your arrogance and ignorance are quite enough.

2. This doesn't answer anything. Will you answer my question?

3. I have a bit of an allergic reaction to uppity, ignorant foreigners who arrogantly try to lecture me about my own fucking nation and people, yes.

[The Lawspeaker]

1. No it didn't. Show me the exact quote where a Labour Party official says they'll "maintain multiculturalism". Please don't start lying, your arrogance and ignorance are quite enough.
The news... every day after the attacks for the period of two weeks.




3. I have a bit of an allergic reaction to uppity, ignorant foreigners who arrogantly try to lecture me about my own fucking nation and people, yes.
I don't have to lecture you about your own people. Ask the Norwegian people themselves that would have voted for the Progress Party.. something you try to deny all the time.

[The Lawspeaker]

Also a very interesting article (http://frontpagemag.com/2011/08/01/something-rotten-in-norway/).

[Aces High]

lecturing me


I don't need some snot-nosed little Englishman lecturing me


I'm venting against obnoxious foreigners having the gumption to lecture us about our own country and people.



When will you stop lecturing
All I read is excuses and more lecturing. Have you no shame?



Sure, but having an opinion is different from lecturing




your arrogant lecturing about my country offensive.

obligation to show arrogant foreigners who lecture us

a goddamn arrogant foreigner lecturing me



disrespectful, lecturing


I take issue with foreigners lecturing me.


you are utterly clueless about my nation and people, so your arrogant attempt at lecturing me

I see a pattern emerging.........:rolleyes:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

[The Lawspeaker]

He is just doing his job for the Norwegian CPSU.. err Labour Party, Aces.

[Aces High]

His paymasters must have given him a list of keywords to keep hammering away with....lectured....foreigners...ignorant.....inno cent teenagers....mass murderer and every time he mentions these words he gets two euros or something.....the fucker must be a millionare after this thread.

[Hevneren]

[FONT="Georgia"]The news... every day after the attacks for the period of two weeks.

So, you don't have any source then? As I thought.


I don't have to lecture you about your own people. Ask the Norwegian people themselves that would have voted for the Progress Party.. something you try to deny all the time.

You don't know the first thing about the Progress Party. You don't know about their economic policies or their support of Zionist Israel.


Now, focus on the Netherlands rather than sticking your nose in our business, foreigner. Your arrogance and ignorance is getting really annoying.

[The Lawspeaker]

You don't know the first thing about the Progress Party. You don't know about their economic policies or their support of Zionist Israel.
Hmm interesting. As Labour says the same thing. Actually the speech was to be about a boycott of Israel. Yap: now I know for sure.

Mole.

[Hevneren]

I see a pattern emerging.........:rolleyes:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

Little uppity wannabe "Englishman". Didn't I ask you to kindly fuck off?

[Hevneren]

He is just doing his job for the Norwegian CPSU.. err Labour Party, Aces.

You foreigners are getting more ignorant by every post. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

You foreigners are getting more ignorant by every post. :D
Nah. We found you out. ;). We know moles when we see one and you fit the description.

[Hevneren]

His paymasters must have given him a list of keywords to keep hammering away with....lectured....foreigners...ignorant.....inno cent teenagers....mass murderer and every time he mentions these words he gets two euros or something.....the fucker must be a millionare after this thread.

Who are you calling a "little fucker", little Rhodesian boy? The reason I'm repeating myself, is because because uppity, arrogant blowhards like yourself can't seem to get the message: stay... the... fuck... out... of... our... business. Mmkay?

[The Lawspeaker]

Kaching.. the CPSU puts some more money on his bank account.

[Hevneren]

Hmm interesting. As Labour says the same thing. Actually the speech was to be about a boycott of Israel. Yap: now I know for sure.

Mole.


And to think the irony of this little uppity Dutchman calling me paranoid! :D

[Hevneren]

Kaching.. the CPSU puts some more money on his bank account.

My patience with arrogant foreign scum is really running thin.

[_______]

And to think the irony of this little uppity Dutchman calling me paranoid! :D

get back under your bridge

[Pallantides]

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/off-topic-forum/140258d1312866587-deformed-hands-garfield_popcorn.gif

[The Lawspeaker]

My patience with arrogant foreign scum is really running thin.
I hope they pay you well. You almost remind me of that song we had about members of the Dutch NSB. No not the Norges Statsbaner but the Dutch Nazi Party during the war.

"Op de hoek van de straat staat een NSB'er,
't Is geen mens, 't is geen dier, 't is een farizeeër.
Met de krant in de hand, staat hij daar te venten.
En verkoopt zijn Vaderland, voor slechts enk'le centen."

"On the corner of the street there is an NSB'er,
It's neither Man nor Animal, it's a Pharisee.
With his newspaper in his hand, he is there to sell it,
And sell his Fatherland for only a couple of pennies."

[Hevneren]

get back under your bridge

Get back to your country section.

[Hevneren]

I hope they pay you well. You almost remind me of that song we had about members of the Dutch NSB. No not the Norges Statsbaner but the Dutch Nazi Party during the war.

"Op de hoek van de straat staat een NSB'er,
't Is geen mens, 't is geen dier, 't is een farizeeër.
Met de krant in de hand, staat hij daar te venten.
En verkoopt zijn Vaderland, voor slechts enk'le centen."

"On the corner of the street there is an NSB'er,
It's neither Man nor Animal, it's a Pharisee.
With his newspaper in his hand, he is there to sell it,
And sell his Fatherland for only a couple of pennies."

I'm not the little Nazi here, Dutchman.

[_______]

Get back to your country section.

i thought you were all for immigration? :p

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm not the little Nazi here, Dutchman.
But you are a social democrat. And there isn't much difference between the social democrats and the NSB or Nasjonal Samling: both are traitors.

[_______]

I'm not the little Nazi here, Dutchman.

neither is civis, you weirdo. read people's other posts before you make snap judgements.

[Hevneren]

i thought you were all for immigration? :p

No, I'm for foreigners like Civis Battavi and Aces High staying the fuck out of our business. I'm going to defend my nation and people against these ignorant, lecturing, arrogant foreigners and I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of me.

[Hevneren]

But you are a social democrat. And there isn't much difference between the social democrats and the NSB or Nasjonal Samling: both are traitors.

Ignorant fool. The two are not the same. You don't even know what Nasjonal Samling is.

[Pallantides]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn206/pass_the_bacon/forum%20stuff/chillax400.gif

[The Lawspeaker]

Ignorant fool. The two are not the same. You don't even know what Nasjonal Samling is.
Wrong. Norwegian Nazi's and traitors - in the same way as the NSB stabbed us in the back. The word Quisling itself became a byword (in English and I have heard it used in Dutch too on certain occasions) for treason as he disallowed the fortresses protecting Oslo to fire at the Germans.

[Hevneren]

neither is civis, you weirdo. read people's other posts before you make snap judgements.

Oh snap! :eek:

All I've said and continue to say is that I don't want ignorant fioreigners lecturing me about my nation and people, and certainly not by those who praise mass murderers. This caused a stir for some reason. I don't give a shit though.

[_______]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn206/pass_the_bacon/forum%20stuff/chillax400.gif

but anger is so thrilling...

[Hevneren]

Wrong. Norwegian Nazi's and traitors - in the same way as the NSB stabbed us in the back. The word Quisling itself became a byword (in English and I have heard it used in Dutch too on certain occasions) for treason as he disallowed the fortresses protecting Oslo to fire at the Germans.

Exactly, and the Labour Party stood at the forefront against the Nazi occupation of Norway.

[The Lawspeaker]

Exactly, and the Labour Party stood at the forefront against the Nazi occupation of Norway.
And today they are handing over your country to Islam. So.. they are the new quislings.

[Hevneren]

And today they are handing over your country to Islam. So.. they are the new quislings.


Muslims are a tiny minority here, and our right-wing parties did nothing to stop Muslims from immigrating here.

[Hevneren]

but anger is so thrilling...

Ad so are shifting loyalties, ey? ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

Muslims are a tiny minority here, and our right-wing parties did nothing to stop Muslims from immigrating here.
Of course not.. with the social democrats being in full control. What could they do ?

[rhiannon]

Er...Iz a little confuzzled:

Is anyone on here (posted to anyone who wants to answer) trying to make political excuses or rationalizations for what this ABB douchebag did?

I mean...the victims were teens! Yea, maybe the teens were politically engaged in something this guy did not approve of....but they were fucking teenagers just the same!!

I just hope no one here is trying to say it was understandable that this guy went berserk and off on a killing spree.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what those kids were doing....they weren't harming anyone, and were therefore innocent.

This post has turned into a (to coin some other poster on another thread) a clusterfuck!

[Hevneren]

Of course not.. with the social democrats being in full control. What could they do ?

The Labour Party hasn't been in constant power since 1945, you ignorant foreigner. :rolleyes:

[_______]

Ad so are shifting loyalties, ey? ;)

shifting loyalties?

i still strongly disagree with agrippa and aces about the massacre.

that has nothing to do with the fact that you are a troll of the most pernicious kind.

[_______]

Er...Iz a little confuzzled:

Is anyone on here (posted to anyone who wants to answer) trying to make political excuses or rationalizations for what this ABB douchebag did?

I mean...the victims were teens! Yea, maybe the teens were politically engaged in something this guy did not approve of....but they were fucking teenagers just the same!!

I just hope no one here is trying to say it was understandable that this guy went berserk and off on a killing spree.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what those kids were doing....they weren't harming anyone, and were therefore innocent.

This post has turned into a (to coin some other poster on another thread) a clusterfuck!

i agree, but he is still a troll

x

[The Lawspeaker]

The Labour Party hasn't been in constant power since 1945, you ignorant foreigner. :rolleyes:

But not that it made much difference when they weren't. They are a major factor in Norway's political world. And you know that as well as I do.

[rhiannon]

i agree, but he is still a troll

x

I am friends with him on here...have known him from another forum also. He's not a troll....but he IS sincere, and the events in Norway this past July have hit him very hard....so he gets REALLY angry if there is any even remote rationalization for ABB's actions.

I can understand passion when it is something that really hits home. Hell....I get really pissed over certain topics myself:)

[Hevneren]

shifting loyalties?

i am loyal only to myself.

i still strongly disagree with agrippa and aces about the massacre.

that has nothing to do with the fact that you are a troll of the most pernicious kind.

Good. And I am loyal to myself, my nation and my people, and when foreigners start lecturing me without understanding a thing about my nation and people, and praising mass murder, I will dig my heels in real deep.

I'm not a troll. These people have been doing nothing but lecturing me, ignoring what I've told them, and then they have the bloody gumption to personally insult me and keep on lecturing. I'm near boiling point at the moment, and the fact that nobody has even a wee bit of common decency in this matter, irks me to no end.

By the way, by mentioning loyalties I was being facetious. I was hinting at you friending me and then "unfriending" me again. ;)

[Aces High]

Er...Iz a little confuzzled:

Is anyone on here (posted to anyone who wants to answer) trying to make political excuses or rationalizations for what this ABB douchebag did?


I think its been explained a few times and is obvious to anyone with a little insight.
No one is is trying to justify what Breivik did,we are trying to understand why he did it and his modus operandi....and wether it is going to happen again due to politicians being inactive rgearding the interests of the indigineous populations of their countries.
Will people who are sick of watching their countries being handed away to immigrants start taking matters into their own hands and seeking out the culprits...be they imagined or real.
Breivik just happened to be Norwegian yet i can imagine it happening in many European countries.

Just mouthing that he was a serial killer and WAzzzZZ BAaaADdd like a fucking moron wont get us anywhere.

[Hevneren]

i agree, but he is still a troll

x

Let me get this straight. Me going against people who don't know what they're talking about and telling them they're wrong, is trolling? Me defending my nation and people, is trolling? Me speaking out against those who rationalise a mad sub-human's actions, is trolling?

[Aces High]

lecturing lecturing lecturing.

Three in one.....lol

You may not be a troll but you are a fucking idiot,nobodys lecturing anyone.....now run along and take your meds.

[Hevneren]

But not that it made much difference when they weren't. They are a major factor in Norway's political world. And you know that as well as I do.


Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Norway isn't a one-party state, you silly Dutchman. Learn a thing or two about this country.

[The Lawspeaker]

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Norway isn't a one-party state, you silly Dutchman. Learn a thing or two about this country.
De jure you aren't. De facto you are. It's the same in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands or most other countries with social democratic parties and a lot of immigrants.

[Hevneren]

Three in one.....lol

You may not be a troll but you are a fucking idiot,nobodys lecturing anyone.....now run along and take your meds.

Ah, such class, little Rhodesian boy. What's a matter? Angry you're not a real little English boy, hmmm? :D

[Hevneren]

De jure you aren't. De facto you are. It's the same in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands or most other countries with social democratic parties and a lot of immigrants.


Norway isn't the Netherlands. I've been trying to get that through your head for several pages now. :rolleyes:

[rhiannon]

I think its been explained a few times and is obvious to anyone with a little insight.
No one is is trying to justify what Breivik did,we are trying to understand why he did it and his modus operandi....and wether it is going to happen again due to politicians being inactive rgearding the interests of the indigineous populations of their countries.
Will people who are sick of watching their countries being handed away to immigrants start taking matters into their own hands and seeking out the culprits...be they imagined or real.
Breivik just happened to be Norwegian yet i can imagine it happening in many European countries.

Just mouthing that he was a serial killer and WAzzzZZ BAaaADdd like a fucking moron wont get us anywhere.

I guess that makes me a moron, then. LOL. That guy WAzzzZZ BAaaADdd!;)

Where are you trying to get, then, by discussing it? Just curious..

Honestly, if it is gonna happen....how will discussing it now and understanding his motivations and all that crud actually STOP some later sociopath from going on their own killing spree?

People are koo-koo....there is no telling when someone decides to go off the deep end..

[The Lawspeaker]

Norway isn't the Netherlands. I've been trying to get that through your head for several pages now. :rolleyes:
Norway maybe even more so then we here. We don't have organisations that are all centred around the social democrats while your has that. A youth camp, labour organisations and the party office side by side at Youngstorget.. we don't have that here -- it almost sounds like the USSR or East Germany while it is Norway.

[_______]

Good. And I am loyal to myself, my nation and my people, and when foreigners start lecturing me without understanding a thing about my nation and people, and praising mass murder, I will dig my heels in real deep.

I'm not a troll. These people have been doing nothing but lecturing me, ignoring what I've told them, and then they have the bloody gumption to personally insult me and keep on lecturing. I'm near boiling point at the moment, and the fact that nobody has even a wee bit of common decency in this matter, irks me to no end.

By the way, by mentioning loyalties I was being facetious. I was hinting at you friending me and then "unfriending" me again. ;)

norway has my deepest sympathy.

while i enjoyed your earlier posts, i can't be sure that you are not a spy.

[Aces High]

Where are you trying to get, then, by discussing it? Just curious..

Well by looking at random events through recent history we can see that sometimes a given event is a precursor for something that will happen again but maybe on a larger scale if the problem that created the event isnt solved.
Here in Europe immigration is out of control and the politicians in Europe think they can sweep the problem under the carpet and not deal with it.....whilst the populace keeps quiet.

My opinion is that this Breivik guy could be the first in a long line.

(if you want an example look at your own country...the twin towers were targeted in the 90's.....then they got targeted again)

[The Lawspeaker]

^That's something that we will indeed have to be worried about. Mark my words: by making real political opposition impossible by branding it as Nazi or racist they open the doors to more.. violent means of resistance.

Evidently they weren't smart enough to recognise that while anyone with a bit of common sense could have pointed that out decades in advance.

[rhiannon]

Well by looking at random events through recent history we can see that sometimes a given event is a precursor for something that will happen again but maybe on a larger scale if the problem that created the event isnt solved.
Here in Europe immigration is out of control and the politicians in Europe think they can sweep the problem under the carpet and not deal with it.....whilst the populace keeps quiet.

My opinion is that this Breivik guy could be the first in a long line.

(if you want an example look at your own country...the twin towers were targeted in the 90's.....then they got targeted again)

LOL. America has her problems...that's for damn sure. Not sure how you all think the tide of immigration will change. I do wonder, what has brought the wave on to this degree? Everyone expects people to immigrate to America....it has only been in the past few months that I have learned Europe is a major destination for immigrants...

But still....if some person is gonna go postal, I just don't see anything stopping it because people are unpredictable, and you cannot predict when someone's last straw is going to be broken...

[Hevneren]

Norway maybe even more so then we here. We don't have organisations that are all centred around the social democrats while you have. A youth camp, labour organisations and the party office side by side at Youngstorget.. we don't have that here -- it sounds like the USSR or East Germany while it is Norway.


Again I call bullshit. Your narrative is out of the Twilight Zone. Please get back to reality. Your foreign ignorance is showing yet again. Norway is a democracy, you daft Dutchman. :rolleyes:

[Hevneren]

norway has my deepest sympathy.

while i enjoyed your earlier posts, i can't be sure that you are not a spy.

A spy? Don't be silly. No, I'm a guy fed up with foreigners telling us what to do, what to think, who we are, where we come from, what we should say, what we should wear etc. :mad:

[The Lawspeaker]

Again I call bullshit. Your narrative is out of the Twilight Zone. Please get back to reality. Your foreign ignorance is showing yet again. Norway is a democracy, you daft Dutchman. :rolleyes:
Youngstorget (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youngstorget)
Utøya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ut%C3%B8ya)

Proof me wrong, commie.

[Pallantides]

norway has my deepest sympathy.

while i enjoyed your earlier posts, i can't be sure that you are not a spy.

Hevneren is a government spy come to monitor Norwegian poster activity on The Apricity!

Lol c'mon....:rolleyes2::D

[Hevneren]

^That's something that we will indeed have to be worried about. Mark my words: by making real political opposition impossible by branding it as Nazi or racist they open the doors to more.. violent means of resistance.

Evidently they weren't smart enough to recognise that while anyone with a bit of common sense could have pointed that out decades in advance.

Every action has its potential reaction, clearly, and I've said for a long time that the more repressive a society is the more steam will need to be vented out, in the form of extremism. Germany is a perfect example.

[Hevneren]

Youngstorget (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youngstorget)
Utøya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ut%C3%B8ya)

Proof me wrong, commie.

Prove what wrong? All I wrote is that Norway is a democracy. Are you saying it isn't?

And as deep thinking and original as your name calling is, it's still inaccurate and unrelated to anything I've written.

[The Lawspeaker]

Hevneren is a government spy come to monitor Norwegian poster activity on The Apricity!

Lol c'mon....:rolleyes2::D

It's not like the Chinese (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/10/interview-with-a-paid-troll) and other countries (http://www.google.nl/search?source=ig&hl=nl&rlz=1G1MDNDCEN-GBNL431&q=government+troll&oq=government+troll&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=238l2158l0l2443l16l8l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0) don't use them.


Prove what wrong? All I wrote is that Norway is a democracy. Are you saying it isn't?

And as deep thinking and original as your name calling is, it's still inaccurate and unrelated to anything I've written.
In the same way as the other countries are democracies. Only within the established confines of the ruling ideology. East Germany in that respect was a democracy too.


Every action has its potential reaction, clearly, and I've said for a long time that the more repressive a society is the more steam will need to be vented out, in the form of extremism. Germany is a perfect example.
So in that respect the only one responsible for the massacre is the Norwegian Labour Party. And now they cynically use that to their own advantage.

[Hevneren]

It's not like the Chinese (http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/10/interview-with-a-paid-troll) and other countries (http://www.google.nl/search?source=ig&hl=nl&rlz=1G1MDNDCEN-GBNL431&q=government+troll&oq=government+troll&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=238l2158l0l2443l16l8l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0) don't use them.

Because Norway is just like communist China! :rolleyes:

You ignorant foreigners are something else.

[Aces High]

America has her problems...that's for damn sure. Not sure how you all think the tide of immigration will change.

Well if you look we have laws banning free speech basically and laws that will put a native of a European country in jail for promoting a nationalist agends,we have laws in the UK where a party like the BNP has to let foreigners into its ranks by law,which is crazy....but its the law....lade by cultural marxists to give us no way of expressing ourselves and making the natives of Europe feel like second class citizens in their own land.
Maybe some people will stop looking towards politicians for a solution and start taking things into their own hands.
Not loonies or crackpots but patriots.....;)

Dont you have such groups in the US who value their constitutional rights...?

[Hevneren]

So in that respect the only one responsible for the massacre is the Norwegian Labour Party. And now they cynically use that to their own advantage.

Individuals aren't responsible for their actions? The sub-human who killed all those people is innocent? And no, you can't pin the blame on the Labour Party.

[The Lawspeaker]

Individuals aren't responsible for their actions? The sub-human who killed all those people is innocent? And no, you can't pin the blame on the Labour Party.
It was them that made a normal debate impossible by immediately calling dissenters racists and bigots and nazi's. So.. yes: where a normal debate is made impossible unfortunately other forms of action arise. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[rhiannon]

Well if you look we have laws banning free speech basically and laws that will put a native of a European country in jail for promoting a nationalist agends,we have laws in the UK where a party like the BNP has to let foreigners into its ranks by law,which is crazy....but its the law....lade by cultural marxists to give us no way of expressing ourselves and making the natives of Europe feel like second class citizens in their own land.
Maybe some people will stop looking towards politicians for a solution and start taking things into their own hands.
Not loonies or crackpots but patriots.....;)

Dont you have such groups in the US who value their constitutional rights...?

I think most of us Americans value our constitutional rights. Especially if we see them being infringed upon:)

[Hevneren]

In the same way as the other countries are democracies. Only within the established confines of the ruling ideology. East Germany in that respect was a democracy too.

So, now all of a sudden Norway is East Germany? Are you by any chance living in 1961 right now, you kooky Dutchman? :D

I'm really at a loss when it comes to your ignorant and delirious rants about my nation. Norway is no East Germany or China. :rolleyes:

[Hevneren]

It was them that made a normal debate impossible by immediately calling dissenters racists and bigots and nazi's. So.. yes: where a normal debate is made impossible unfortunately other forms of action arise. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

So, the sub-human who committed this atrocity has no responsibility?

[The Lawspeaker]

So, now all of a sudden Norway is East Germany? Are you by any chance living in 1961 right now, you kooky Dutchman? :D

I'm really at a loss when it comes to your ignorant and delirious rants about my nation. Norway is no East Germany or China. :rolleyes:
Learn to read English. What it means is that a country can call itself a democracy but with most power in the hands of a single party it does not immediately mean it is a real democracy. Norway or my own country for that matter or just about every country here in Europe is not a democracy.

Did the Norwegians get the vote whether they wanted a multicultural society ? Yes or no ?

Did we Dutch get it ?
Yes or no ?

Did any European nation get the vote to decide on whether they wanted it ?
Yes or no ?

Did the government, extreme left-wing pressure groups and big business decide in it's stead?
Yes or no ?


So, the sub-human who committed this atrocity has no responsibility?
Less responsible then the ones who made this crime possible in the first place. He is a very nasty symptom - not the actual disease.

[Aces High]

I think most of us Americans value our constitutional rights. Especially if we see them being infringed upon:)

Now imagine them being stripped from you one by one with draconion laws set in place to jail any dissenter.
Are you going to just sit there as things get worse....or are you going to look in the mirror and think...."what would my ancestors have done"....your ancestors who sweated blood for ther rights and freedoms you cherish.

Are you going to sit their or are you going to do something...?

[Hevneren]

Learn to read English. What it means is that a country can call itself a democracy but with most power in the hands of a single party it does not immediately mean it is a real democracy. Norway or my own country for that matter or just about every country here in Europe is not a democracy.

Then you fail to understand the meaning of the word "democracy".


Did the Norwegians get the vote whether they wanted a multicultural society ? Yes or no ?

Did we Dutch get it ?
Yes or no ?

Did any European nation get the vote to decide on whether they wanted it ?
Yes or no ?

Did the government, extreme left-wing pressure groups and big business decide in it's stead?
Yes or no ?

There's a difference between representative democracy and direct democracy.


Less responsible then the ones who made this crime possible in the first place. He is a very nasty symptom - not the actual disease.


So, the "person" who plans to kill people for nine years, then finally blows up a bomb, killing 8, before gunning down 69 unarmed, innocent young people, is less responsible for those 77 deaths than our Labour Party? You disgust me with your degenerate morals, foreigner.

[The Lawspeaker]

Then you fail to understand the meaning of the word "democracy".
Paraphrasing Pulp Fiction.. one of my favourites:

Engelsk, din tullebukk, snakker du det ?
I asked you simple yes and no questions. Answer them, commieboy.

Did the Norwegians get the vote whether they wanted a multicultural society ? Yes or no ?

Did we Dutch get it ?
Yes or no ?

Did any European nation get the vote to decide on whether they wanted it ?
Yes or no ?

Did the government, extreme left-wing pressure groups and big business decide in it's stead?
Yes or no ?




There's a difference between representative democracy and direct democracy.
Exactly. The first one isn't a democracy and the second one is.




So, the "person" who plans to kill people for nine years, then finally blows up a bomb, killing 8, before gunning down 69 unarmed, innocent young people, is less responsible for those 77 deaths than our Labour Party? You disgust me with your degenerate morals, foreigner.
Your Labour Party has been responsible for every Norwegian assaulted, battered, raped or murdered by immigrants. And that's a lot more then 77.

Your Labour Party has created this climate where a madman stood up and shot 77 misguided idiots that could have served their country in a better way and could have lived a good life. Some of them were just kids. But in the end.. your Labour Party created this climate and they are the only ones that are to be held responsible for this disaster because without them: this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

[Aces High]

So, the "person" who plans to kill people for nine years, then finally blows up a bomb, killing 8, before gunning down 69 unarmed, innocent young people, is less responsible for those 77 deaths than our Labour Party?

Not less,equal.

These grey suited non entities that decide over us should learn more about the word "accountability"or maybe karma is a better word.