On Eurogenes K13 which is the most northern component?

[Daos777]

Which is more northern component, Baltic or N_Atlantic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leto]

Baltic is purely HG, North Atlantic is part Farmer, I think. But generally Baltic means Northeast Euro and NA is Northwest Euro.

[Samnium]

Baltic I believe.

[Daos777]

Baltic is purely HG, North Atlantic is part Farmer, I think. But generally Baltic means Northeast Euro and NA is Northwest Euro.

So people who have higher Farmer admixture(similar to the farmers who lived in Central Europe and British Isles) will score higher N_Atlantic? What do Spanish score for N_Atlantic?

[Daos777]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200615/cda56cd40875c43bcf1889b5f6c9cbeb.jpg


Nvm found it on spreadsheet.

It’s high. Baltic is definitely the more Northern Component.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Which is more northern component, Baltic or N_Atlantic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want to measure the E/W Hunter Gatherer amount then Global 25 is better suited for that. Despite David's best efforts, Baltic and North Atlantic are unavoidably mixed with other components, since those components are computed from modern populations as opposed to ancients. At the time Eurogenes K13 and others in this series was released, we didn't have ancients, so this is the best that they could do in that era.

[Ion Basescul]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200615/cda56cd40875c43bcf1889b5f6c9cbeb.jpg


Nvm found it on spreadsheet.

It’s high. Baltic is definitely the more Northern Component.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spaniards have tamong he highest WHG in Europe, if you were not aware.

[Daos777]

If you want to measure the E/W Hunter Gatherer amount then Global 25 is better suited for that. Despite David's best efforts, Baltic and North Atlantic are unavoidably mixed with other components, since those components are computed from modern populations as opposed to ancients. At the time Eurogenes K13 and others in this series was released, we didn't have ancients, so this is the best that they could do in that era.

Yeah I get that. I just wanted to know which one of them can be considered the more “northern” component, and because Baltic is the least farmer mixed it’s probably Baltic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daos777]

Spaniards have tamong he highest WHG in Europe, if you were not aware.

Along with the highest farmer lol

[Ion Basescul]

Along with the highest farmer lol

Yep, but you should understand how those components were made in the first place.

Because Ancients were not available, David took the richest HG population in the West and the richest HG population in the East. Both are obviously mixed nowadays, but that doesn't matter since he wouldn't work with them directly.
Then, just like how Kaspias or I are extracting someone's part from his ancestry, he extracted the what he believed to be the Farmer and other mixtures. What he was left with was hypothesised to be the HG+Steppe-like part characteristic for Western populations (N_Atlantic) and the HG+Steppe-like part characteristic of Eastern populations (Baltic).

[Kyp]

Neither

[Damião de Góis]

Neither have very high peaks. Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 53% and North_Atlantic peaks in West_Scottish also at 53%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dCZldTIfd-EPjDlpQiFNcHwOtZus9Qdll3pB48zdQG0/edit#gid=0

[Daos777]

Yep, but you should understand how those components were made in the first place.

Because Ancients were not available, David took the richest HG population in the West and the richest HG population in the East. Both are obviously mixed nowadays, but that doesn't matter since he wouldn't work with them directly.
Then, just like how Kaspias or I are extracting someone's part from his ancestry, he extracted the what he believed to be the Farmer and other mixtures. What he was left with was hypothesised to be the HG+Steppe-like part characteristic for Western populations (N_Atlantic) and the HG+Steppe-like part characteristic of Eastern populations (Baltic).

So N_Atlantic is based only on pure WHG + Steppe? He excluded the farmer side completely?

I really don’t trust these hypothetical sides because genetics don’t work in such a linear uniform way that you can accurately isolate them like that. Maybe I just need to learn how the process is done though.

But why not just use full WHG + full Steppe+ Full farmer dna? I mean we have their genomes. Isn’t this way more accurate? That’s the way it’s done on g25 I’m assuming. So I’m guessing its more accurate than any gedmatch calculator right?


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[Daos777]

Neither have very high peaks. Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 53% and North_Atlantic peaks in West_Scottish also at 53%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dCZldTIfd-EPjDlpQiFNcHwOtZus9Qdll3pB48zdQG0/edit#gid=0

West Scotts have higher farmer DNA than Lithuanians correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Yep, but you should understand how those components were made in the first place.

Because Ancients were not available, David took the richest HG population in the West and the richest HG population in the East. Both are obviously mixed nowadays, but that doesn't matter since he wouldn't work with them directly.
Then, just like how Kaspias or I are extracting someone's part from his ancestry, he extracted the what he believed to be the Farmer and other mixtures. What he was left with was hypothesised to be the HG+Steppe-like part characteristic for Western populations (N_Atlantic) and the HG+Steppe-like part characteristic of Eastern populations (Baltic).

I'm replying to this chain, just to prove it with Global 25.

Here's me with 29% Baltic, and 25% North Atlantic = 54.79%
Here's Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North with considerably higher 36% Baltic and considerably lower North Atlantic 18% = 54.25%

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Name
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Ion Basescul, Chisinau
25.42
29.37
15.04
9.99
12.91
1.53
0.69
1.84
2.84
0
0.37
0
0

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North
18.18
36.07
14.32
12.57
10.84
2.87
0.06
1.99
1.21
0
0.70
0.65
0.55

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

I've created a very basic model, which works with very basic components in order to measure as precisely as possible the EHG and WHG parts. That's why I'm using Natufian instead of Anatolian Farmer, since the latter is also about 15-20% mixed with WHG. Yamnaya or other steppe folk are also left out, as they are half EHG and half CHG.

https://i.imgur.com/Xxe1eh6.png

As you can see, our sum of Baltic + N_Atlantic is identical on K13 and identical on Global 25. And just as importantly, there is a slight preference for WHG in my case and EHG in theirs, which probably explains why he gobbles up more Baltic instead of a more balanced spread between Baltic and North_Atlantic.

[Damião de Góis]

West Scotts have higher farmer DNA than Lithuanians correct?


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No idea.

French_Basques also have around 50 North_Altantic and they are southern europeans. But on the other hand, every scandinavian population scores more North_Atlantic than Baltic. So i don't think you can conclude much. It would be clearer if these components had a higher peak value in my opinion.

[Ion Basescul]

So N_Atlantic is based only on pure WHG + Steppe? He excluded the farmer side completely?

I really don’t trust these hypothetical sides because genetics don’t work in such a linear uniform way that you can accurately isolate them like that. Maybe I just need to learn how the process is done though.

But why not just use full WHG + full Steppe+ Full farmer dna? I mean we have their genomes. Isn’t this way more accurate? That’s the way it’s done on g25 I’m assuming. So I’m guessing its more accurate than any gedmatch calculator right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

K13 appeared prior to these ancient genomes being available. That's why it's limited. I only use it extensively, because of the public kits that are available on GEDmatch.

[Daos777]

I'm replying to this chain, just to prove it with Global 25.

Here's me with 29% Baltic, and 25% North Atlantic = 54.79%
Here's Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North with considerably higher 36% Baltic and considerably lower North Atlantic 18% = 54.25%

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Name
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Ion Basescul, Chisinau
25.42
29.37
15.04
9.99
12.91
1.53
0.69
1.84
2.84
0
0.37
0
0

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North
18.18
36.07
14.32
12.57
10.84
2.87
0.06
1.99
1.21
0
0.70
0.65
0.55

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

I've created a very basic model, which works with very basic components in order to measure as precisely as possible the EHG and WHG parts. That's why I'm using Natufian instead of Anatolian Farmer, since the latter is also about 15-20% mixed with WHG. Yamnaya or other steppe folk are also left out, as they are half EHG and half CHG.

https://i.imgur.com/Xxe1eh6.png

As you can see, our sum of Baltic + N_Atlantic is identical on K13 and identical on Global 25. And just as importantly, there is a slight preference for WHG in my case and EHG in theirs, which probably explains why he gobbles up more Baltic instead of a more balanced spread between Baltic and North_Atlantic.


I'm replying to this chain, just to prove it with Global 25.

Here's me with 29% Baltic, and 25% North Atlantic = 54.79%
Here's Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North with considerably higher 36% Baltic and considerably lower North Atlantic 18% = 54.25%

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Name
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Ion Basescul, Chisinau
25.42
29.37
15.04
9.99
12.91
1.53
0.69
1.84
2.84
0
0.37
0
0

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North
18.18
36.07
14.32
12.57
10.84
2.87
0.06
1.99
1.21
0
0.70
0.65
0.55

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

I've created a very basic model, which works with very basic components in order to measure as precisely as possible the EHG and WHG parts. That's why I'm using Natufian instead of Anatolian Farmer, since the latter is also about 15-20% mixed with WHG. Yamnaya or other steppe folk are also left out, as they are half EHG and half CHG.

https://i.imgur.com/Xxe1eh6.png




As you can see, our sum of Baltic + N_Atlantic is identical on K13 and identical on Global 25. And just as importantly, there is a slight preference for WHG in my case and EHG in theirs, which probably explains why he gobbles up more Baltic instead of a more balanced spread between Baltic and North_Atlantic.

Identical or proportionally similar? Because your EHG + WHG score = 39.6

How to you attribute the CHG to each component?


Also,

Natufian is far too southern of a component to use isn’t it? I mean Anatolian farmers were not 80 percent Natufian and 20 WHG. They were their own population. In between WHG and Natufian. The results would make much more sense using the least WHG influenced ANF you can find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daos777]

No idea.

French_Basques also have around 50 North_Altantic and they are southern europeans. But on the other hand, every scandinavian population scores more North_Atlantic than Baltic. So i don't think you can conclude much. It would be clearer if these components had a higher peak value in my opinion.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200615/f397bd5791d5b0f7437f8db7465cf954.jpg


I mean hunter gatherer DNA peaks around Baltic people and I’m pretty sure Basques have high Neolithic farmer. So N_Atlantic seems to have at least some overlap with Neolithic farmer dna. Again this is just a guess I haven’t looked far into this.

But I’m going to go with Baltic being the more northern Component :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Identical or proportionally similar? Because your EHG + WHG score = 39.6

How to you attribute the CHG to each component?


Also,

Natufian is far too southern of a component to use isn’t it? I mean Anatolian farmers were not 80 percent Natufian and 20 WHG. They were their own population. In between WHG and Natufian. The results would make much more sense using the least WHG influenced ANF you can find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Identical from a relative point of view; on K13 we score 54% in the sum of Baltic and N_Atlantic, despite them having way more Baltic and me way more Atlantic. On Global 25 we both score 39.6% EHG + WHG and you can see that the one that preferred more Baltic scores more EHG and similarly N_Atlantic -> WHG.

Anatolian farmers were a mix of WHG, Natufian and Iran_N. That's why our scores have more CHG than they would have, had the Farmers been introduced in the model.
Farmers were about 27% WHG, 33% Natufian and 39% Iran_N according to the paper that introduced the Farmers back in 2016 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003663/).
I have Iran_N too in the model, but it prefers CHG for us instead.

https://i.imgur.com/2nJJe3y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Gaty1ps.png

[gixajo]

I'm replying to this chain, just to prove it with Global 25.

Here's me with 29% Baltic, and 25% North Atlantic = 54.79%
Here's Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North with considerably higher 36% Baltic and considerably lower North Atlantic 18% = 54.25%

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Name
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Ion Basescul, Chisinau
25.42
29.37
15.04
9.99
12.91
1.53
0.69
1.84
2.84
0
0.37
0
0

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<colgroup><col style="width: 371px"><col width="68"><col width="39"><col width="66"><col width="73"><col width="63"><col width="55"><col width="78"><col width="70"><col width="54"><col width="74"><col width="60"><col width="74"><col width="80"></colgroup><tbody>
Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North
18.18
36.07
14.32
12.57
10.84
2.87
0.06
1.99
1.21
0
0.70
0.65
0.55

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

I've created a very basic model, which works with very basic components in order to measure as precisely as possible the EHG and WHG parts. That's why I'm using Natufian instead of Anatolian Farmer, since the latter is also about 15-20% mixed with WHG. Yamnaya or other steppe folk are also left out, as they are half EHG and half CHG.

https://i.imgur.com/Xxe1eh6.png

As you can see, our sum of Baltic + N_Atlantic is identical on K13 and identical on Global 25. And just as importantly, there is a slight preference for WHG in my case and EHG in theirs, which probably explains why he gobbles up more Baltic instead of a more balanced spread between Baltic and North_Atlantic.

Which sample did you use for EHG?

[Chris596]

Baltic I believe that is the most ,,northern'' component. I usually score above 30% Baltic and generally a little less Atlantic than most Hungarians (around 23-24%).

[Ion Basescul]

Which sample did you use for EHG?

RUS_Karelia_HG

EHG,0.1236877,0.0321583,0.129855,0.2101663,-0.010361,0.0571723,-0.0196627,-0.0234603,-0.002659,-0.0860153,0.0182957,-0.0184337,0.0333497,-0.039085,0.018865,0.0295237,-0.0148203,0.0031673,-0.0044413,0.012506,-0.007487,0.0169817,0.0093667,-0.021007,-0.0103383

Here's the full model if you guys want it:

GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445 ,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
EHG,0.1236877,0.0321583,0.129855,0.2101663,-0.010361,0.0571723,-0.0196627,-0.0234603,-0.002659,-0.0860153,0.0182957,-0.0184337,0.0333497,-0.039085,0.018865,0.0295237,-0.0148203,0.0031673,-0.0044413,0.012506,-0.007487,0.0169817,0.0093667,-0.021007,-0.0103383
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Levant_Natufian,0.020488,0.1431895,-0.0377125,-0.1387295,0.030775,-0.079484,-0.025616,-0.0175375,0.114329,0.002005,0.0332085,-0.0222555,0.076486,0.002133,0.0153365,0.009016,-0.0154505,-0.001014,-0.02206,0.040832,0.001497,0.0001235,-0.003636,-0.0044585,0.006287
Nganassan,0.0476917,-0.4066181,0.1557885,0.0023902,-0.1594452,-0.0882129,0.0285066,0.0433367,0.0310876,0.0128477, 0.1028569,0.0094115,-0.0040734,-0.0261619,-0.0219731,-0.0123307,-0.0010952,0.0134165,0.0268365,-0.0008505,0.0431363,-0.0118954,0.0336096,0.0003977,0.0135556
West_African:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Indian:IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP,-0.018212,-0.235603,-0.128598,0.098838,0.023389,-0.003904,-0.016686,-0.003231,0.059721,0.02041,0.023222,0.004646,-0.0055,0.001239,-0.016151,-0.008884,0.009518,0.001014,-0.004902,0.026888,-0.00549,0.011994,-0.013311,-0.001205,0.000958
IberomaurusianMAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N,0.0227646,-0.4480516,0.0728598,-0.052972,-0.0414846,-0.0407738,0.005264,0.011215,0.0075266,0.021431,-0.0507624,-0.005665,0.0027948,0.0100466,-0.0100162,-0.0120658,-0.0043026,0.0060558,0.0153102,0.0099798,0.0104566,-0.0287366,-0.0196458,-0.0016628,-0.0099152

[gixajo]

RUS_Karelia_HG

EHG,0.1236877,0.0321583,0.129855,0.2101663,-0.010361,0.0571723,-0.0196627,-0.0234603,-0.002659,-0.0860153,0.0182957,-0.0184337,0.0333497,-0.039085,0.018865,0.0295237,-0.0148203,0.0031673,-0.0044413,0.012506,-0.007487,0.0169817,0.0093667,-0.021007,-0.0103383

Here's the full model if you guys want it:

GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
WHG,0.1246365,0.116278,0.184789,0.189279,0.1546445 ,0.0464355,0.0131605,0.0372675,0.0890705,0.017768,-0.0153455,-0.015811,0.0159065,-0.0030275,0.053338,0.0582065,0.00502,0.016343,-0.0093015,0.055589,0.0944585,0.0111905,-0.049607,-0.160866,0.0170045
EHG,0.1236877,0.0321583,0.129855,0.2101663,-0.010361,0.0571723,-0.0196627,-0.0234603,-0.002659,-0.0860153,0.0182957,-0.0184337,0.0333497,-0.039085,0.018865,0.0295237,-0.0148203,0.0031673,-0.0044413,0.012506,-0.007487,0.0169817,0.0093667,-0.021007,-0.0103383
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0.0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Levant_Natufian,0.020488,0.1431895,-0.0377125,-0.1387295,0.030775,-0.079484,-0.025616,-0.0175375,0.114329,0.002005,0.0332085,-0.0222555,0.076486,0.002133,0.0153365,0.009016,-0.0154505,-0.001014,-0.02206,0.040832,0.001497,0.0001235,-0.003636,-0.0044585,0.006287
Nganassan,0.0476917,-0.4066181,0.1557885,0.0023902,-0.1594452,-0.0882129,0.0285066,0.0433367,0.0310876,0.0128477, 0.1028569,0.0094115,-0.0040734,-0.0261619,-0.0219731,-0.0123307,-0.0010952,0.0134165,0.0268365,-0.0008505,0.0431363,-0.0118954,0.0336096,0.0003977,0.0135556
West_African:Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
Indian:IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP,-0.018212,-0.235603,-0.128598,0.098838,0.023389,-0.003904,-0.016686,-0.003231,0.059721,0.02041,0.023222,0.004646,-0.0055,0.001239,-0.016151,-0.008884,0.009518,0.001014,-0.004902,0.026888,-0.00549,0.011994,-0.013311,-0.001205,0.000958
IberomaurusianMAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534
RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N,0.0227646,-0.4480516,0.0728598,-0.052972,-0.0414846,-0.0407738,0.005264,0.011215,0.0075266,0.021431,-0.0507624,-0.005665,0.0027948,0.0100466,-0.0100162,-0.0120658,-0.0043026,0.0060558,0.0153102,0.0099798,0.0104566,-0.0287366,-0.0196458,-0.0016628,-0.0099152

Great distances but this is my result:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 12.0577% / 0.12057737
38.4 Levant_Natufian
27.0 GEO_CHG
26.2 WHG
8.4 EHG

[Daos777]

Identical from a relative point of view; on K13 we score 54% in the sum of Baltic and N_Atlantic, despite them having way more Baltic and me way more Atlantic. On Global 25 we both score 39.6% EHG + WHG and you can see that the one that preferred more Baltic scores more EHG and similarly N_Atlantic -> WHG.

Anatolian farmers were a mix of WHG, Natufian and Iran_N. That's why our scores have more CHG than they would have, had the Farmers been introduced in the model.
Farmers were about 27% WHG, 33% Natufian and 39% Iran_N according to the paper that introduced the Farmers back in 2016 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003663/).
I have Iran_N too in the model, but it prefers CHG for us instead.

https://i.imgur.com/2nJJe3y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Gaty1ps.png

Anatolian Farmers before they entered Europe were a separate population who plotted between WHG and Natufian. They did not have that large direct gene flow from these populations. Anatolian farmers had very little gene flow from Natufians around 10 percent at most. Same for WHG before they entered Europe.


“At the autosomal level[1], in the Principal component analysis (PCA) the analyzed AHG individual turns out to be close to two later Anatolian populations, the Anatolian Aceramic Farmers (AAF) dating from 8300-7800 BCE, and the Anatolian Ceramic Farmers (ACF) dating from 7000-6000 BCE. These early Anatolian farmers later replaced the European hunter-gatherers populations in Europe to a large extent, ultimately becoming the main genetic contribution to current European populations, especially those of the Mediterranean. In addition, their position in this analysis is intermediate between Natufian farmers and Western hunter-gatherers (WHG). This last point is confirmed by the ADMIXTURE and qp-Adm analysis and confirms the presence of hunter-gatherers of both European and Near-Eastern origins in Central Anatolia in the late Pleistocene. Regarding their genetic proximity to the WHG, it has been proven that this proximity is greater with the so-called Villabruna cluster, which lived in Europe 14,000 years ago, and in particular with the individual known as Iron Gates HG, from the Balkans . The detailed study of these results suggests that this affinity is not due to a genetic flow from the AHG to the ancestors of the Villabruna cluster, but on the contrary: there was a genetic flow from the ancestors of the Villabruna cluster to the ancestors of the AHG.

It has been discovered[1] that populations of the Anatolian Neolithic derive a significant portion of their ancestry from the AHG, suggesting that agriculture was adopted in situ by these hunter-gatherers and not spread by demic diffusion into the region.”





Thats why these models are sometimes complete non-sense from a historical and archeological stand point. You can model a distantly related population with two, three, ect components that did not contribute directly to that population but where distantly related to them from a much earlier ancestor.


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[Daos777]

Target: yo_scaled
Distance: 10.3438% / 0.10343833
31.0EHG
26.6GEO_CHG
26.6Levant_Natufian
15.8WHG


Here is mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Anatolian Farmers before they entered Europe were a separate population who plotted between WHG and Natufian. They did not have that large direct gene flow from these populations. Anatolian farmers had very little gene flow from Natufians around 10 percent at most. Same for WHG before they entered Europe.


“At the autosomal level[1], in the Principal component analysis (PCA) the analyzed AHG individual turns out to be close to two later Anatolian populations, the Anatolian Aceramic Farmers (AAF) dating from 8300-7800 BCE, and the Anatolian Ceramic Farmers (ACF) dating from 7000-6000 BCE. These early Anatolian farmers later replaced the European hunter-gatherers populations in Europe to a large extent, ultimately becoming the main genetic contribution to current European populations, especially those of the Mediterranean. In addition, their position in this analysis is intermediate between Natufian farmers and Western hunter-gatherers (WHG). This last point is confirmed by the ADMIXTURE and qp-Adm analysis and confirms the presence of hunter-gatherers of both European and Near-Eastern origins in Central Anatolia in the late Pleistocene. Regarding their genetic proximity to the WHG, it has been proven that this proximity is greater with the so-called Villabruna cluster, which lived in Europe 14,000 years ago, and in particular with the individual known as Iron Gates HG, from the Balkans . The detailed study of these results suggests that this affinity is not due to a genetic flow from the AHG to the ancestors of the Villabruna cluster, but on the contrary: there was a genetic flow from the ancestors of the Villabruna cluster to the ancestors of the AHG.”

Thats why these models are sometimes complete non-sense from a historical and archeological stand point. You can model a distantly related population with two, three, ect components that did not contribute directly to that population but where distantly related to them from a much earlier ancestor.


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AHG already have WHG in them. If you try to introduce them in that model, it eats all WHG from Moldovans. But even by destroying the basic model with the introduction of AHG, it is still evident that there isn't any noticeable difference between my 29% and their 36% Baltic, because the 25% and 18% N_Atlantic levels up the field.

https://i.imgur.com/tp1uprN.png

At the moment, it doesn't get more basic then the first model that I've showed. If you want to be more precise, then we will need a Basal Eurasian really. But so far, it looks like there isn't any difference between Baltic and N_Atlantic. Had there been, then our results would have been radically different in terms of EHG+WHG percentages.

https://i.imgur.com/Xxe1eh6.png

<google-sheets-html-origin style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Name
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan

</tbody>

</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Ion Basescul, Chisinau
25.42
29.37
15.04
9.99
12.91
1.53
0.69
1.84
2.84
0
0.37
0
0

</tbody>

</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North
18.18
36.07
14.32
12.57
10.84
2.87
0.06
1.99
1.21
0
0.70
0.65
0.55

</tbody>

</google-sheets-html-origin>

[Ion Basescul]

Target: yo_scaled
Distance: 10.3438% / 0.10343833
31.0EHG
26.6GEO_CHG
26.6Levant_Natufian
15.8WHG


Here is mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quite close to the Ukrainian average from Moldova, although obviously a bit more South-shifted since you are a 1/4 Moldovan/Romanian.

https://i.imgur.com/AsWK0ad.png

[Daos777]

AHG already have WHG in them. If you try to introduce them in that model, it eats all WHG from Moldovans. But even by destroying the basic model with the introduction of AHG, it is still evident that there isn't any noticeable difference between my 29% and their 36% Baltic, because the 25% and 18% N_Atlantic levels up the field.

https://i.imgur.com/tp1uprN.png

At the moment, it doesn't get more basic then the first model that I've showed. If you want to be more precise, then we will need a Basal Eurasian really. But so far, it looks like there isn't any difference between Baltic and N_Atlantic. Had there been, then our results would have been radically different in terms of EHG+WHG percentages.

https://i.imgur.com/Xxe1eh6.png

<google-sheets-html-origin style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Name
N_Atlantic
Baltic
West_Med
West_Asian
East_Med
Red_Sea
South_Asian
East_Asian
Siberian
Amerindian
Oceanian
NE_African
Sub-Saharan

</tbody>

</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Ion Basescul, Chisinau
25.42
29.37
15.04
9.99
12.91
1.53
0.69
1.84
2.84
0
0.37
0
0

</tbody>

</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="font-style: italic; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Moldova_758_R01C02_Centre-North
18.18
36.07
14.32
12.57
10.84
2.87
0.06
1.99
1.21
0
0.70
0.65
0.55

</tbody>

</google-sheets-html-origin>

What if what shows up in many Europeans as WHG admixture was actually from the hunter gatherer like DNA in AHG and later Anatolian Neolithic farmers. That’s why it’s so low in the 10-15 percent range lol.


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