E-M81 Very Recent in Maghreb

[Daos777]

“E-M183 (E-M81) is the most frequent paternal lineage in North Africa and thus it must be considered to explore past historical and demographical processes. Here, by using whole Y chromosome sequences from 32 North African individuals, we have identified five new branches within E-M183. The validation of these variants in more than 200 North African samples, from which we also have information of 13 Y-STRs, has revealed a strong resemblance among E-M183 Y-STR haplotypes that pointed to a rapid expansion of this haplogroup. Moreover, for the first time, by using both SNP and STR data, we have provided updated estimates of the times-to-the-most-recent-common-ancestor (TMRCA) for E-M183, which evidenced an extremely recent origin of this haplogroup (2,000–3,000 ya). Our results also showed a lack of population structure within the E-M183 branch, which could be explained by the recent and rapid expansion of this haplogroup. In spite of a reduction in STR heterozygosity towards the West, which would point to an origin in the Near East, ancient DNA evidence together with our TMRCA estimates point to a local origin of E-M183 in NW Africa.”


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-16271-y



When will North African E-M81 carriers establish reservations for us Native E-M78 carriers and let us build casinos to milk the Berber population? It’s only fair. You took our land.


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[Daos777]

Bump.


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[Adamm]

Come back to Africa brutha.

[Nassbean]

“E-M183 (E-M81) is the most frequent paternal lineage in North Africa and thus it must be considered to explore past historical and demographical processes. Here, by using whole Y chromosome sequences from 32 North African individuals, we have identified five new branches within E-M183. The validation of these variants in more than 200 North African samples, from which we also have information of 13 Y-STRs, has revealed a strong resemblance among E-M183 Y-STR haplotypes that pointed to a rapid expansion of this haplogroup. Moreover, for the first time, by using both SNP and STR data, we have provided updated estimates of the times-to-the-most-recent-common-ancestor (TMRCA) for E-M183, which evidenced an extremely recent origin of this haplogroup (2,000–3,000 ya). Our results also showed a lack of population structure within the E-M183 branch, which could be explained by the recent and rapid expansion of this haplogroup. In spite of a reduction in STR heterozygosity towards the West, which would point to an origin in the Near East, ancient DNA evidence together with our TMRCA estimates point to a local origin of E-M183 in NW Africa.”


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-16271-y



When will North African E-M81 carriers establish reservations for us Native E-M78 carriers and let us build casinos to milk the Berber population? It’s only fair. You took our land.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

not really it's just a founder effect and I'm ready to bet anything that massinissa is the key to this :


This indicates that a single man may have had nine sons who went on to have numerous children of their own. What is even more surprising is that these subclades do not show any consistent geographic pattern.

If the estimate of 2,100 years is correct, that would correspond approximately to the time when the Romans defeated the Carthaginians in what is now Tunisia.

Massinissa had 44 children but most of them died and only 10 or 9 survived and he lived during that era so it can't be a coincidence

[Adamm]

not really it's just a founder effect and I'm ready to bet anything that massinissa is the key to this :



Massinissa had 44 children but most of them died and only 10 or 9 survived and he lived during that era so it can't be a coincidence

I don't believe so, it's more likely that the TMRCA of EM81 will increase to 3k-4k ybp.

According to E-M81 FTDNA project administrators it would have been risen to 4300 ybp because of certain new samples added:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1die-cBnThrGT3ysMnvEl91B6HqdF4eiuH8YBB3vwaZA/edit?pli=1&fbclid=IwAR3BrIACWvnkclZit41AJMNzbASR8irjwEO5xAmX5 Q4ZJ6lXNwxZ_5gTkOo#gid=314601745

[Nassbean]

I don't believe so, it's more likely that the TMRCA of EM81 will increase to 3k-4k ybp.

According to E-M81 FTDNA project administrators it would have been risen to 4300 ybp because of certain new samples added:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1die-cBnThrGT3ysMnvEl91B6HqdF4eiuH8YBB3vwaZA/edit?pli=1&fbclid=IwAR3BrIACWvnkclZit41AJMNzbASR8irjwEO5xAmX5 Q4ZJ6lXNwxZ_5gTkOo#gid=314601745

interesting thanks but it doesn't contradict what I said. I'm more talking about the massive presence and extension of e-m81 today

[Adamm]

interesting thanks but it don't contradict what I said. I'm more talking about the massive presence and extension of e-m81 today

Well if TMRCA increases to 4k ybp it will nullify the theory that Massinisa created that founding father effect.

[Nassbean]

Well if TMRCA increases to 4k ybp it will nullify the theory that Massinisa created that founding father effect.

the origin could be older and the founder effect more recent there is no contradiction here

[Adamm]

the origin could be older and the founder effect more recent there is no contradiction here

We already know that the mutation of EM81 was born 13k ybp:

https://i.imgur.com/zBRWQGf.png

The TMRCA which manifests its current founding father effect stands according to yfull on 2700 ybp (Massinisa would live around 2200 ypb).

[Nassbean]

We already know that the mutation of EM81 was born 13k ybp:

https://i.imgur.com/zBRWQGf.png

The TMRCA which manifests its current founding father effect stands according to yfull on 2700 ybp (Massinisa would live around 2200 ypb).

strange I never saw this in any study but if that's true that would be really interesting I wonder what happened 2700 years ago there

[Adamm]

strange I never saw this in any study but if that's true that would be really interesting I wonder what happened 2700 years ago there

They are just estimates, admins of EM81 project believe when the new samples are uploaded on yfull the TMRCA will increase (rise higher).