Balkan Turks Y-DNA 2020

[Kaspias]

Former work in 2019: Balkan Turks PCA, Clustering, 4-Oracle, East Eurasian Admixture and Y-DNA (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?291709-Balkan-Turks-PCA-Clustering-4-Oracle-East-Eurasian-Admixture-and-Y-DNA)

- I deleted 9 samples from the former version as I find their reliability low and added 79 new samples.
- Individuals now cover almost all regions Balkan Turks live.
- Tatar, Romani and non-Turk Muslims excluded.

Findings:


J is predominantly in Thrace.(~80%)
I1 is only in Northern Bulgaria.
O, C and Q are in Thrace.
N is concentrated on the regions we know that populated by early migrators(called Yörüks) before 1500. (See: Kesriye, Kayılar, Hasköy, Selanik, Varna)
NE Bulgaria(Deliorman) had 3 R-Z93 individuals with different surnames.
R1b, R1a, E-V13, I2 show up randomly all over the regions.
G shows up around Plovdiv.



https://i.ibb.co/wphVX5S/BTY-DNA-2020-Haziran-m.png

[Chris596]

A good amount of them is R1 and E-V13, that is expected in my opinion. And now I realize how special you are :D (seriously). Since your Y-DNA is Q. Wow! I thought it's more prevalent among Turks even in the Balkans. Seems like I was mistaken.

[Leto]

So only about 12-13% of the lineages can be considered East Eurasian. I'm sure if you look at their mt DNA the EE share will be even lower.

[Rocinante]

Good amount of R1b, also J2.

[Korialstrasz]

So only about 12-13% of the lineages can be considered East Eurasian. I'm sure if you look at their mt DNA the EE share will be even lower.

How does this ratio look for "benchmark" populations in the region, like Bulgarians, Thracians etc?

[Kaspias]

A good amount of them is R1 and E-V13, that is expected in my opinion. And now I realize how special you are :D (seriously). Since your Y-DNA is Q. Wow! I thought it's more prevalent among Turks even in the Balkans. Seems like I was mistaken.

I'm the only Q in this chart. There is one more Q individual from Dobrudja but he identifies as Tatar, so I excluded him. Q is not common among Turkey Turks in general, L330 is not present at all except two Tatars.


So only about 12-13% of the lineages can be considered East Eurasian. I'm sure if you look at their mt DNA the EE share will be even lower.

Well, not that clear. A random R or J clade could appear as present among Proto-Turks. For example when I look at STR values of J individuals opted in to this research I see that there are two values on a specific marker mutated, and believe that one group belongs to Balkans while other brought by Turks. Same applies to other haplogroups.

With a basic calculation that may be far from reality, I can say that from 20% to 30% Turkic originated while the rest seem to be native. There are also a few aliens that neither can be native nor Turkic.


How does this ratio look for "benchmark" populations in the region, like Bulgarians, Thracians etc?

I have data for Pomaks and Bulgarians only.

This one is very superficial thanks to insufficient data.

Pomaks: N=25

https://i.ibb.co/9Wv8G02/Ads-z.png

And you should see some overlap here:

Bulgarians: N=550

https://i.ibb.co/hZwJBLF/Ads-z2.png

[Korialstrasz]

I

Bulgarians: N=550

https://i.ibb.co/hZwJBLF/Ads-z2.png

Didn't expect to see this much overlapping. Seems very similar excluding N.

[Kaspias]

Didn't expect to see this much overlapping. Seems very similar excluding N.

Yes, indeed there is a great overlap.

Besides N, boosted R1b, J2, and lesser I2 give a hint.

[Bender1999]

It is very interesting to see that Anatolian and Balkan Oghuz groups have more N, and Auerbaijan, Iran and Horasan(incl. Turkmenistan+Afghanistan) more Q. That would mean Oghuz tribes differs by Haplogroups. More questions about Oghuz/Turkic ethnogenesis...

[Kaspias]

It is very interesting to see that Anatolian and Balkan Oghuz groups have more N, and Auerbaijan, Iran and Horasan(incl. Turkmenistan+Afghanistan) more Q. That would mean Oghuz tribes differs by Haplogroups. More questions about Oghuz/Turkic ethnogenesis...

This is a good topic to talk about. You will remember that I posted various subtraction threads, and Turkic admixture of Azerbaijani Turks were rather closer to the Kipchak group, which makes me think that there is an overlap between Oghuz and Kipchak in terms of genetics. Turkey Turks should be genetically the furthermost Oghuz group in this sense, but I'm just speculating. On the other hand, I'm not aware of research on Turkmens that covers the whole Turkmen population. If you know, please post. The ones I saw were specified on tribes. And I don't think Q has such a significant role in Turkmens as claimed but only in some tribes.

For Balkan Turks, there is also a R1b factor here which can be boosted by Turks. I wonder if the same case applies to Anatolian Turks(I don't really have information on it), because it can be about Tatars as well. Turkic R1a, J2, and N seem to be common both among Anatolian and Balkan Turks.

[Ion Basescul]

Bulgarians: N=550


https://i.ibb.co/hZwJBLF/Ads-z2.png

Here's Romanians from only Romania if you need it.
1106 samples; 11 H were not included.
The weight of the samples is about 60% Wallachia and Dobruja, 30% Transylvania+Banat+Crisana+Maramures and 10% Moldavia, so not the most representative as the distribution of the population in Romania is about 42% Wallachia+Dobruja, 35% Transylvania+Banat+Crisana+Maramures and 23% Moldavia.

https://i.imgur.com/1giZz1S.png?1

[Kaspias]

Here's Romanians from only Romania if you need it.
1106 samples; 11 H were not included.
The weight of the samples is about 60% Wallachia and Dobruja, 30% Transylvania+Banat+Crisana+Maramures and 10% Moldavia, so not the most representative as the distribution of the population in Romania is about 42% Wallachia+Dobruja, 35% Transylvania+Banat+Crisana+Maramures and 23% Moldavia.


Thank you, Ion!

[Ion Basescul]

Thank you, Ion!

I'll post mtDNA on the other thread. It's the same as on Eupedia, since I donated them, but I will break them down by region for you, since you might be interested in Dobruja, who has a Tatar minority.

[Ion Basescul]

Ion you look Ukrainian they should named you Vasiliy fam

Most people here say that I have a Balkan or very Romanian look, which I agree with. But I pass in Ukraine from my experience, since I visit either Odessa or Chernivtsi every 2nd month or so for 1-2 day city breaks.

[Chris596]

Fam your signature ting silly af, you know Serbian and Bosnian same people..

In the mood to troll other members? I know they are genetically the same, this is my model from Vahaduo, Balkan components if you haven't noticed it.

[Bender1999]

This is a good topic to talk about. You will remember that I posted various subtraction threads, and Turkic admixture of Azerbaijani Turks were rather closer to the Kipchak group, which makes me think that there is an overlap between Oghuz and Kipchak in terms of genetics. Turkey Turks should be genetically the furthermost Oghuz group in this sense, but I'm just speculating. On the other hand, I'm not aware of research on Turkmens that covers the whole Turkmen population. If you know, please post. The ones I saw were specified on tribes. And I don't think Q has such a significant role in Turkmens as claimed but only in some tribes.

For Balkan Turks, there is also a R1b factor here which can be boosted by Turks. I wonder if the same case applies to Anatolian Turks(I don't really have information on it), because it can be about Tatars as well. Turkic R1a, J2, and N seem to be common both among Anatolian and Balkan Turks.

Turkmens(Iran, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan) have mostly Q. Also they have a lot of r1b. The only hypothesis which i have is about Afshars, Central Anatolia has a lot of them and some who claim they are descended by them have Q. This tribe is also a famous group in Azerbaijan and iran(for example Afsharid dynasty, but idk which haplogroup they had). Also idk about egean and Mediterranean yörüks and to which tribes they belong(halacoglu always say that the Adana yörüks were afshars), i just know that some belongs to kayi(karakecili) and bayat. That would be interesting, because some of them have N. Tahtaci, a alevi turkmen group, has different oghuz origins, that also could be the case, although many were rivals to each other. because of that it would be very nice if all those Turks who get tested would know about their origins. Saying just beeing yörük/türkmen could explain some points, but the secrets about our history remain unsolved...

[Dr_Maul]

Turkmens(Iran, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan) has mostly Q. Also they have a lot of r1b. The only hypothesis which i have is about Afshars, Central Anatolia has a lot of them and some who claim they are descended by them have Q. This tribe is also a famous group in Azerbaijan and iran(for example Afsharid dynasty, but idk which haplogroup they had). Also idk about egean and Mediterranean yörüks and to which tribes they belong(halacoglu always say that the Adana yörüks were afshars), i just know that some belongs to kayi(karakecili) and bayat. That would be interesting, because some of them have N. Tahtaci, a alevi turkmen group, has different oghuz origins, that also could be the case, although many were rivals to each other. because of that it would be very nice if all those Turks who get tested would know about their origins. Saying just beeing yörük/türkmen could explain some points, but the secrets about our history remain unsolved...

I dont know about Afshar but Qajars have J1

[Kyp]

I dont know about Afshar but Qajars have J1

A Caucasus clade.

[Shubotai]

Afshars 57% L, 13% Q, 3% N, 13% J2a, 10% E (73% Central Asian haplogroups)
Older Turkish village: 25% N, 25% J2a, 30% R1b, 3% G
From Gockumen 2008, Ethnohistorical and genetic survey of four Central Anatolian settlements (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303994149_Ethnohistorical_and_genetic_survey_of_fo ur_Central_Anatolian_settlements)

In Turkey, Q is concentrated mostly in east Anatolia while N is more heavy in west Anatolia, pointing to Türkmens and Yörüks respectively. 99909

Two turkic tribes (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balkans-ethnic_%281861%29.jpg) settled in north Greece, Yörüks in Macedonia and Konyars in Thessaly, from Konya in south-west Turkey. The Konyars probably also had Yörük origin. The turkic villages in west Macedonia had a mixed Yörük/Konyar population and adjacent to those were an equal number of greek-muslim villages, the Vallahades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallahades), who went also to Turkey after the population exchange.

Yörüks settled after 1354 in Central Macedonia (https://clioturbata.com/wp-content/uploads/456.jpg) mostly for peace-keeping and suppressing of rebellions, while in Thessaly one Byzantine with one Norman feudal lord were fighting against another Byzantine and a Serbian feudal lord and locals were displeased so they asked for help from Turks and they sent Turahan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turahan_Bey) who was close by and ended the fight, restored peace and brought Turkish families from Ikonya to establish settlements, especially in east Thessaly. He also built the first mosque in the area outside Dereli where I am from.

J2a haplogroup in general must also be a major player for Turkish settlements in the Balkans, as in east Thessaly, Bitola and Karadağ. 99910

[L3mon J3lly]

So only about 12-13% of the lineages can be considered East Eurasian. I'm sure if you look at their mt DNA the EE share will be even lower.

Why? In Turks, East Eurasian ancestry is usually higher on the maternal side. The original Turks were West Eurasian paternally, R1b, R1a and J with a lot of East Asian maternal lineages.

[Bender1999]

Afshars 57% L, 13% Q, 3% N, 13% J2a, 10% E (73% Central Asian haplogroups)
Older Turkish village: 25% N, 25% J2a, 30% R1b, 3% G
From Gockumen 2008, Ethnohistorical and genetic survey of four Central Anatolian settlements (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303994149_Ethnohistorical_and_genetic_survey_of_fo ur_Central_Anatolian_settlements)

In Turkey, Q is concentrated mostly in east Anatolia while N is more heavy in west Anatolia, pointing to Türkmens and Yörüks respectively. 99909

Two turkic tribes (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balkans-ethnic_%281861%29.jpg) settled in north Greece, Yörüks in Macedonia and Konyars in Thessaly, from Konya in south-west Turkey. The Konyars probably also had Yörük origin. The turkic villages in west Macedonia had a mixed Yörük/Konyar population and adjacent to those were an equal number of greek-muslim villages, the Vallahades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallahades), who went also to Turkey after the population exchange.

Yörüks settled after 1354 in Central Macedonia (https://clioturbata.com/wp-content/uploads/456.jpg) mostly for peace-keeping and suppressing of rebellions, while in Thessaly one Byzantine with one Norman feudal lord were fighting against another Byzantine and a Serbian feudal lord and locals were displeased so they asked for help from Turks and they sent Turahan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turahan_Bey) who was close by and ended the fight, restored peace and brought Turkish families from Ikonya to establish settlements, especially in east Thessaly. He also built the first mosque in the area outside Dereli where I am from.

J2a haplogroup in general must also be a major player for Turkish settlements in the Balkans, as in east Thessaly, Bitola and Karadağ. 99910

This Afshar village were in my knowledge somewhere in central anatolia, so idk about eastern provinces and haplogroups.

[Kaspias]

.


Afshars 57% L, 13% Q, 3% N, 13% J2a, 10% E (73% Central Asian haplogroups)
Older Turkish village: 25% N, 25% J2a, 30% R1b, 3% G
From Gockumen 2008, Ethnohistorical and genetic survey of four Central Anatolian settlements

In Turkey, Q is concentrated mostly in east Anatolia while N is more heavy in west Anatolia, pointing to Türkmens and Yörüks respectively. Dispersion_yoruk_et_turkmène_en_anatolie.jpg

Q is concentrated around Eastern Anatolia because clade is mostly L245, which cannot be attributed to Turkic origin directly. One individual from Erzincan who is L330 has Tatar background and one M25 from Kayseri has Afshar(he is AG member Afshar) origin. N is present all over Anatolia and among all known tribes, not only Western Anatolia.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=99909&d=1592648132

This is a decent map. But there is a misconception of terms. Türkmen is not equal to Yörük in historical meaning. Türkmens were kind of late-comers while Yörüks were early Beylik Türks. So, Yörüks were already present all over Anatolia before Türkmens appear, and after arriving of Türkmens they were given right to settle wherever they want. Entire Anatolia and Balkans should be affected from Türkmen migration at the same parallel, I even think that source of Iranic input among Balkan Turks is those Türkmens.


Two turkic tribes settled in north Greece, Yörüks in Macedonia and Konyars in Thessaly, from Konya in south-west Turkey. The Konyars probably also had Yörük origin. The turkic villages in west Macedonia had a mixed Yörük/Konyar population and adjacent to those were an equal number of greek-muslim villages, the Vallahades, who went also to Turkey after the population exchange.

Yörüks settled after 1354 in Central Macedonia mostly for peace-keeping and suppressing of rebellions, while in Thessaly one Byzantine with one Norman feudal lord were fighting against another Byzantine and a Serbian feudal lord and locals were displeased so they asked for help from Turks and they sent Turahan who was close by and ended the fight, restored peace and brought Turkish families from Ikonya to establish settlements, especially in east Thessaly. He also built the first mosque in the area outside Dereli where I am from.


Konyar has no difference than regular Yörüks because they are Atçeken's themselves. Yörüks settled after 1354 was manpower of Ottomans during Balkan expansion, they were not only peacekeepers. Using these nomads a permanent military power caused to disappearing almost half of the population in some Yörük associations formed in Balkans, which prevented Turkifying the region in the long-term. Towards 1500 and after, early Yörük population mostly settled, and Turkic source of gene pool replaced with fresh comer Türkmens.

See the difference between Balkan Turks who only have early Yörük origin vs the ones who introduced with late comer Türkmen population:

Gedrosia.

https://i.ibb.co/BT7cv0C/ske-e-horz.jpg

First three individual is from plains where land is fertile and suitable for agriculture. They were conquerors and took the best land, the ones who settled afterward had to settle on the mountain skirt. Separation is easy as such.


J2a haplogroup in general must also be a major player for Turkish settlements in the Balkans, as in east Thessaly, Bitola and Karadağ. Haplogrupa-j2a-m92.png


I agree that J2 should have a major role, but I find it unrealistic that the amount of J2 in Karadağ is connected to Turkic migration.

[Bender1999]

In my knowledge Yörüks are simply Türkmens who kept their original (semi-)nomadic lifestyle. Next time i or my parents go to Turkey i will buy the hole encyclopedia about the nomadic people of anatolian part of ottoman empire(that includes Kurds and arabs). Also i heard there were a back migration to Chorasan, not only the shia/alevi kizilbash but many Turkmens went back to this place(i heard). The question is, why Balkan/Anatolian Turks have in relation to other Oghuz groups more N? A connection to Finno Ugric/Siberian homeland or another indication for the diversity of Oghuz tribes although all are „descendants“ of the legendary Oghuz Khan.

[Shubotai]

Yes, they were farmers.

The differences that the newcomer seems to have are a higher siberian admixture, the presence of south asian admixture and the absence of south east asian admixture and a decent but lower north european, atlantic/med and caucasian admixture.

Somehow I guess that points again that the first three individuals score a higher admixture from areas where haplogroup N is present (north Europe, south-east Asia) and the last individual from areas where Q is present (Siberia, south Asia). It would be interesting to see the results if northern Siberian admixture was isolated. But yes, Q-L275>Q-L245 is definitely native to south west Asia.

The common type of J in Karadağ is J2b2 from Albanians, but J2a is also a bit elevated, so maybe a founder effect is possible because I doubt a back-migration from Italy, since that usually went towards Albania.

In the majority of Turkic and Mongolic peoples in Asia the east asian mtdna is usually higher than east-asian y-dna. Turkic Genetic Charts (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/TurkicGeneticsGraphs.htm) In Turkey it seems lower or equal but I also definitely think it is more widespread.

TurkishY_DNA (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/TurkishY_DNA.gif)
TurksMT_DNA (http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/TurksMT_DNA.gif)

[Kyp]

See the difference between Balkan Turks who only have early Yörük origin vs the ones who introduced with late comer Türkmen population:

Gedrosia.

https://i.ibb.co/BT7cv0C/ske-e-horz.jpg


Do you mean later Turkmens had higher Gedrosian than early ones?
It just looks like to me that sample 4 is less mixed (because of later settlement) therefore higher Mongoloid and Gedrosian/South Asian components.

[Kaspias]

In my knowledge Yörüks are simply Türkmens who kept their original (semi-)nomadic lifestyle.

This is the case:

-> In reality all Oghuz groups are Turkmens, moreover Ottoman Turks as a whole called Turkomans.
-> Yörük is the ones who kept their nomadic culture as you stated and probably have no such an old origin but appeared afterward. But, the thing which confusing is those early Beylik Türks named as Yörüks despite they haven't called Yörüks in that time period.
-> At the same time, Turkmen were used for late-comers by already settled ones. And settled ones started to call themselves Manav, Yörük, etc...
-> After Yörüks settled and mixed, they haven't called with a specific term.

Terms are confusing indeed.



Do you mean later Turkmens had higher Gedrosian than early ones?
It just looks like to me that sample 4 is less mixed (because of later settlement) therefore higher Mongoloid and Gedrosian/South Asian components.

I mean early ones were not mixed and pure Central Asian and late ones were mixed and have same origin with those Turkmens pinpointed on the map above. These early settlements happened at the same time all over the Eastern Balkans, if one sample gets roughly 2% EE and the other is 12%, there should be a 3rd (or more) influencer.

If the region mixed is Iran which I highly believe, especially Horasan, it is expected late-comers have boosted Gedrosia. See this:

https://i.ibb.co/mHSFSg7/Ads-z.png

Why not Anatolia?

As I stated, earliest ones were not mixed as they are still nomads and military manpower of the empire. There is a great chance that there were migrations from Anatolia to Balkans after the 1500s to the end of the empire, following Celali Rebellions. But the thing is despite we see these rebels in Western Anatolia too, they were not settled native Western Turks, but late-comer Alevi Turkmens. On the other hand, smaller and individual migrations should be simply absorbed. At least that's what I have found until now, things can change in the future.

[Kaspias]

The differences that the newcomer seems to have are a higher siberian admixture, the presence of south asian admixture and the absence of south east asian admixture and a decent but lower north european, atlantic/med and caucasian admixture.



All correct except higher Siberian admixture. Imagine an individual similar to İskeçe and Selanik mixing with a Turkmen who has around 20% EE. Child would have around 10% EE and similar to Gümülcine who has fewer Europid input. The early ones were from 30 to 40% EE but the region settled were covered with non-Turk population, and they extremely mixed with them through generations. Turkifying of the region dates to 1600-1700, what do early Turks had done 300 years?



Somehow I guess that points again that the first three individuals score a higher admixture from areas where haplogroup N is present (north Europe, south-east Asia) and the last individual from areas where Q is present (Siberia, south Asia). It would be interesting to see the results if northern Siberian admixture was isolated. But yes, Q-L275>Q-L245 is definitely native to south west Asia.


This is what I think exactly. Early settlers brought N. Situation of Q is complicated as Tatars may have a role here.

K23b of last individual who is Q-L330.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 27.58
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 15.89
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.61
4 South_Central_Asian 10.32
5 Near_East 8.46
6 East_Siberian 5.26
7 Ancestral_Altaic 4.53
8 Tungus-Altaic 4.41
9 South_Indian 2.16
10 North_African 1.87
11 East_African 1.1
12 Amerindian 1.08
13 Paleo_Siberian 1.02
14 Australoid 0.43
15 Archaic_Human 0.19
16 South_East_Asian 0.05
17 Subsaharian 0.04


More East_Siberian than Tungus-Altaic, and somewhat rich ANE.



In the majority of Turkic and Mongolic peoples in Asia the east asian mtdna is usually higher than east-asian y-dna. Turkic Genetic Charts In Turkey it seems lower or equal but I also definitely think it is more widespread.


The same applies to Balkan Turks. You can compare: Balkan Turks mtDNA (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?325838-Balkan-Turks-mtDNA)

[Bender1999]

This is what I think exactly. Early settlers brought N. Situation of Q is complicated as Tatars may have a role here.
A[/URL]

Since when Tatars lived in Balkan? In my knowledge they were natives in coastal region of nowadays Romania and Dobruja region in Bulgaria, after Russian expansion many flew southward. Did Tatars have enough time to have any genetic input in balkan turks?
Another interesting case, Crimean and Lipka Tatars belong more to Q, Kazan to N. Kazan tatars(or were it cuvash idk) have also appreciable E, and both high amount if J2( i bet there are just assimilated Armenians lol).

Also i think Kipchak turkics are also interesting to explore,

[Chris596]

K23b of last individual who is Q-L330.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 27.58
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 15.89
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.61
4 South_Central_Asian 10.32
5 Near_East 8.46
6 East_Siberian 5.26
7 Ancestral_Altaic 4.53
8 Tungus-Altaic 4.41
9 South_Indian 2.16
10 North_African 1.87
11 East_African 1.1
12 Amerindian 1.08
13 Paleo_Siberian 1.02
14 Australoid 0.43
15 Archaic_Human 0.19
16 South_East_Asian 0.05
17 Subsaharian 0.04


More East_Siberian than Tungus-Altaic, and somewhat rich ANE.


This is an interesting sample. My Caucasian and EEF score is higher and my EHG score is obviously 2 times higher. But I get roughly the half from everything else (E-Siberian, Ancestral Altaic), and about a third from Near-East, a quarter from Tungus Altaic and South-Central Asian. And my Southeast Asian percentage is actually higher but I tend to get it on almost every calculator. But I don't know on what level it is comparable to my ancestry (not so much I believe). Of course this is on k23b

Where can I find more samples like this one (about settlers, Turkic people, Huns, etc whatever is comparable to my ancestry)?

[Kaspias]

Since when Tatars lived in Balkan? In my knowledge they were natives in coastal region of nowadays Romania and Dobruja region in Bulgaria, after Russian expansion many flew southward. Did Tatars have enough time to have any genetic input in balkan turks?
Another interesting case, Crimean and Lipka Tatars belong more to Q, Kazan to N. Kazan tatars(or were it cuvash idk) have also appreciable E, and both high amount if J2( i bet there are just assimilated Armenians lol).

Also i think Kipchak turkics are also interesting to explore,

Tatar migration to Balkans dates the same as first settler Yörüks, even before than them if we count pre-Ottoman Turkic populations. The spreading during the 1500s was roughly 70% Yörük and 30% Tatar. After 1500s Tatars registered as Yörüks and identified as regular Turks which resulted in the melting of both communities in the same pot throughout time. An average Balkan Turk already had both Tatar and Oghuz blood before Dobruja migrations but recent(before and after Russo-Turkish War) migration of Crimean Tatars boosted it.

I'm going to check y-DNA sharing of Crimean Tatars tomorrow, can't recall now.

[Kaspias]

This is an interesting sample. My Caucasian and EEF score is higher and my EHG score is obviously 2 times higher. But I get roughly the half from everything else (E-Siberian, Ancestral Altaic), and about a third from Near-East, a quarter from Tungus Altaic and South-Central Asian. And my Southeast Asian percentage is actually higher but I tend to get it on almost every calculator. But I don't know on what level it is comparable to my ancestry (not so much I believe). Of course this is on k23b

Where can I find more samples like this one (about settlers, Turkic people, Huns, etc whatever is comparable to my ancestry)?

MDLP K23b oracles are not very good most of time, but calculator as a whole very useful for us as it has decent components for Central Asia.

Here are some random Balkan Turks:


Kardzhali (R1a - no clade tested)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 32.49
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 19.16
3 European_Early_Farmers 13.99
4 South_Central_Asian 11.09
5 Near_East 6.42
6 Tungus-Altaic 5.19
7 Ancestral_Altaic 4.25
8 East_Siberian 3.29
9 South_East_Asian 1.78
10 Paleo_Siberian 1.35
11 Amerindian 0.89
12 Austronesian 0.09



Silistra (J-M267)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.87
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 22.07
3 European_Early_Farmers 16.54
4 South_Central_Asian 5.79
5 Near_East 4.47
6 Ancestral_Altaic 3.12
7 North_African 2.99
8 East_Siberian 2.01
9 Paleo_Siberian 1.71
10 South_Indian 1.4
11 Austronesian 1.21
12 Tungus-Altaic 1.16
13 Melano_Polynesian 0.92
14 Amerindian 0.8
15 South_East_Asian 0.64
16 Australoid 0.29


Haskovo (N-M231)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.21
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 18.85
3 European_Early_Farmers 17.54
4 South_Central_Asian 8.83
5 Near_East 8.75
6 North_African 1.96
7 Tungus-Altaic 1.89
8 Paleo_Siberian 1.77
9 Ancestral_Altaic 1.57
10 South_East_Asian 1.15
11 East_African 0.93
12 South_Indian 0.91
13 East_Siberian 0.89
14 Austronesian 0.39
15 Subsaharian 0.36


Razgrad (R-DF27)



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 33.29
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 23.81
3 European_Early_Farmers 19.9
4 South_Central_Asian 5.99
5 Ancestral_Altaic 3.12
6 Austronesian 2.73
7 Near_East 2.64
8 South_Indian 2.6
9 East_Siberian 1.79
10 North_African 1.28
11 Arctic 1.01
12 Amerindian 0.64
13 Subsaharian 0.57
14 Archaic_Human 0.4
15 Khoisan 0.11
16 South_East_Asian 0.1
17 Australoid 0.01

Kardzhali, Mountaineer (I2a-L161)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 32.97
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 22.35
3 European_Early_Farmers 12.86
4 South_Central_Asian 6.51
5 Near_East 6.08
6 Tungus-Altaic 5.58
7 East_Siberian 4.11
8 North_African 3.41
9 Ancestral_Altaic 3.17
10 South_East_Asian 1.71
11 Austronesian 0.79
12 Australoid 0.23
13 Melano_Polynesian 0.21
14 Paleo_Siberian 0.02


North Macedonia, Radovish


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.18
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 23.14
3 European_Early_Farmers 16.59
4 South_Central_Asian 8.33
5 Near_East 4.71
6 North_African 3.13
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.57
8 East_Siberian 2.17
9 Tungus-Altaic 1.83
10 South_Indian 1.18
11 Melano_Polynesian 0.8
12 Khoisan 0.22
13 African_Pygmy 0.14


1/2 Aydos, 1/2 Langaza (O)



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 31.46
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 18.08
3 European_Early_Farmers 14.6
4 Near_East 9.45
5 South_Central_Asian 7.94
6 Ancestral_Altaic 4.03
7 East_Siberian 3.29
8 Tungus-Altaic 2.89
9 North_African 2.82
10 Amerindian 1.13
11 Paleo_Siberian 1.07
12 Arctic 0.84
13 Australoid 0.71
14 South_East_Asian 0.57
15 East_African 0.43
16 Archaic_Human 0.34
17 Melano_Polynesian 0.24
18 Subsaharian 0.11


Kavala (R-YR1013)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.58
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 24.75
3 European_Early_Farmers 17.22
4 Near_East 8.75
5 South_Central_Asian 4.37
6 Subsaharian 1.78
7 South_Indian 1.43
8 North_African 1.32
9 East_Siberian 1.24
10 Amerindian 0.98
11 East_African 0.8
12 Tungus-Altaic 0.67
13 Ancestral_Altaic 0.51
14 African_Pygmy 0.39
15 Melano_Polynesian 0.33
16 Archaic_Human 0.27
17 South_East_Asian 0.24
18 Austronesian 0.2
19 Paleo_Siberian 0.09
20 Khoisan 0.04
21 Arctic 0.04


1/2 Kilkis, 1/4 Karnobat, 1/4 Drama (J2)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.87
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 22.26
3 European_Early_Farmers 13.15
4 Near_East 7.26
5 South_Central_Asian 6.03
6 South_Indian 3.22
7 North_African 2.44
8 Ancestral_Altaic 2.43
9 Amerindian 2.01
10 Melano_Polynesian 1.04
11 Austronesian 1
12 East_African 0.94
13 Tungus-Altaic 0.77
14 East_Siberian 0.57


Xanthi (I2a)


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.52
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 21.79
3 European_Early_Farmers 12.04
4 North_African 7.04
5 South_Central_Asian 6.1
6 Near_East 3.39
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.9
8 Paleo_Siberian 2.54
9 Austronesian 1.59
10 Arctic 1.46
11 Subsaharian 0.85
12 South_East_Asian 0.7
13 Australoid 0.48
14 Archaic_Human 0.28
15 Amerindian 0.26
16 South_Indian 0.06

[Bender1999]

Tatar migration to Balkans dates the same as first settler Yörüks, even before than them if we count pre-Ottoman Turkic populations. The spreading during the 1500s was roughly 70% Yörük and 30% Tatar. After 1500s Tatars registered as Yörüks and identified as regular Turks which resulted in the melting of both communities in the same pot throughout time. An average Balkan Turk already had both Tatar and Oghuz blood before Dobruja migrations but recent(before and after Russo-Turkish War) migration of Crimean Tatars boosted it.

I'm going to check y-DNA sharing of Crimean Tatars tomorrow, can't recall now.

Ah ok,the only thing i knew was the coastal region of Romania/Urkrain and some regions of northern Bulgaria were predominantly Tatar. If we speak about crimean tatars, they had definitely Oghuz influence comparing to the Kazan Tatars. I don’t mean during the Ottoman empire, but they have definitely Pecheneg influence. Some of them settled in Anatolia after Malazgirt, some went from byzantine to selcuk army, but what happened to others? Or Khazars, halacoglu claimed there were of Oghuz origin, but i am not convinced, i need more proofs. For example i really doubt that the high east asian admixture in your family came from Tatars, nowadays maybe rare in Balkan but dont forget that the most of BalkanTurks live in Turkey now. So i dont thing saying Balkan turks have low turkic influence is right. Your region was the new home for rebellious Turkmens, especially Thrace. But just my thoughts, maybe other have different points which are more convincing.

[Kaspias]

Ah ok,the only thing i knew was the coastal region of Romania/Urkrain and some regions of northern Bulgaria were predominantly Tatar. If we speak about crimean tatars, they had definitely Oghuz influence comparing to the Kazan Tatars. I don’t mean during the Ottoman empire, but they have definitely Pecheneg influence. Some of them settled in Anatolia after Malazgirt, some went from byzantine to selcuk army, but what happened to others? Or Khazars, halacoglu claimed there were of Oghuz origin, but i am not convinced, i need more proofs. For example i really doubt that the high east asian admixture in your family came from Tatars, nowadays maybe rare in Balkan but dont forget that the most of BalkanTurks live in Turkey now. So i dont thing saying Balkan turks have low turkic influence is right. Your region was the new home for rebellious Turkmens, especially Thrace. But just my thoughts, maybe other have different points which are more convincing.

This is the only creditable y-DNA study on Crimean Tatars I was able to find:

https://i.ibb.co/BBHhPCP/Ads-z.png
https://i.ibb.co/HHNkJDd/krim.png

By thinking Coastal Tatars are also included in this study, ratio of Q would be between 5% and 10% among Steppe Tatars. Besides Q they probably boosted some other HG's in the region as they have a huge contribution to the formation of the Balkan Turk community. I don't really know about Oghuz admixture among Steppe Tatars but we know that Coastal Tatars are Oghuz and Mountaineers roughly half Oghuz, I believe Halaçoğlu were meaning it. Otherwise, I don't think Steppe Tatars spoke Oghuz before the interaction with Ottomans, and their language standardized(almost) thanks to Coastal Tatars.


We can observe Turkic admixture of Balkan Turks in a PCA:

https://i.ibb.co/qd5kzKy/main7.jpg

See this plot that I have a separate line from Siberia, it is because of additional Uralic admixture I have. But other individuals; Varna, Thracian and Macedonian directly shifts toward Siberia. So, there is three major input:

-Oghuz
-Siberia input
-Ugric input



Almost all individuals carry some Oghuz, from 10% to 80% I have seen so far.
Siberia shift can be explainable by early Tatars who distributed all over Balkans. Their SCA admixture should be absorbed among Oghuz, and Siberian isolated apparently.
Ugric input concentrated on Ludogorie and either should point out pre-Ottoman Turks(See: Cumans, Bulgars) or Tatars settled there. But the thing is these Tatars should have a different origin than the Tatars I mentioned above.




Speaking for myself, my Turkic admixture models like roughly half Oghuz and half "alien" which shifts towards Siberia highly, and slightly to the Ural at the same time. See the PCA that having both Uralic and Siberia shifts at the same time caused to open a separated line.

At the end of the day, I have three types of these Turkic roots settled in Balkans and Oghuz comes first in the rank with almost half sharing. (It was something like 50% Oghuz, 40% Siberia, 10% Ugor. @Deniz who is from Ludogorie got 75% Ugor and 25% Oghuz. @Thracian who is from Thrace and Macedonia got 65% Oghuz and 35% Siberia...)

Now let's try to match our autosomal and history knowledge with y-DNA:


There is only a haplogroup which is a sign of Siberian ancestry in the y-DNA chart. But it is almost 10% in mt-DNA. I'm aware of early Tatars used in the military as permanent soldiers, so the origin of the Siberian shift supposedly comes from maternal lineage and have no huge contribution to y-DNA.
Pre-Ottoman admixture(if any) might actually come from native mixes, I mean, those Cumans and so on should be already mixed with Wallachians and Slavic speakers at that time period. We know that they were present in Dobrudja, but Dobrudja was almost 80% Turkish before the Russo-Turkish Wars. Neither natives nor Pre-Ottoman Turkic disappeared from the region but probably mixed with Oghuz speakers. So, they actually really should have an influence on HG spreading of the region, but it is probably HG's of the natives they mixed. A similar case applies to Thrace; Pecheneks. Our knowledge on them less than Cumans, but there has been a Greek individual found in Balıkesir, with haplogroup Q-L332, specifically Kipchak/Cuman clade. This should prove their presence in the region, at least.
Oghuz's are an interesting case in terms of HG's because you can expect that they brought any haplogroup throughout their migration way. If we are going to focus on N, I highly believe that it's origin is Oghuz, but also need to mention that other Turkic's might carry it too. Still, they seem to make up most of Turkic y-DNA sharing. Influence they provided to mt-DNA cannot exactly be determined as they overlap with native HG's.


Don't forget these all comments only on Turkic HG's, not total amount.

[Bender1999]

I also dont think that Crimean Tatars were Oghuz speaking before, but considering the history and area i think they got oghuz genetic(and cultural) input during the history. Dont forget, that some Turkics, Kipchak and Oghuz, had Ugric admix. Turkics had just more east asian and were sometimes more southern(iranic?) shifted. Ugrics have „just“ big Siberian, never saw one who had more than 5% east asian. Cumans, Pechenegs, Bulgars etc, who were before Ottomans in Balkan were never more than over 50% east asianadmixed(in my opinion)we saw once Khazars who were like afghan turkmens/Uzbeks just more „european“ or northern shifted. In contrast to Avars(probably preturkuc altaics) they scored sometimes up to 70% east asian admix(btw do we have hunnic examples ?and sorry, they were 100, ok lets say 99,999% turkic). I really dont know about how and where the preottoman turkics settled in Balkans, i cant say something ablut that but i believe what you say. And about haplogroups, i have this imteresting information about them:


100137
100138100139
100140

I once saw a source which claimed crimean tatars had more Q, also once saw a chart wher IranAzerbaijanis had 15%Q. Unfortunately i dont find them. So i can just say i „saw“, i dont wanna say something wrong. The case for me is, why Balkan and Anatolian Turks have more N than Q and why Azerbaijan, Iran and Chorasan(Turkmenistan/Afghanistan) oghuz turks have more Q than N. Lets say Balkan Turks got it from Tatars/preottoman turkics but whats about Anatolian Turks? Ok there live between 2-6 Mio. Tatars, but i think you tell it if you get tested,so also non Tatars show sometimes N.

First is cuvash
Second is lipka tatar
Third is china tatar
Fourth is kazan tatar