Do Portuguese Usually Get Italian DNA?

[Luso]

So I was wondering. On 23andMe my mom gets 10% Italian, my dad gets 6%, I get 10% too. Is this typical for Portuguese? Even K36 gives me like 15%. Ik Spaniard 2.0 is 1/16 Italian or something and got like 6% Italian on his 23andme test so that is also why I am wondering...

Anyone know?

[gixajo]

Always maybe not, I don´t know well about Portugueses, but Spaniards do, is quite common.

Usually closest foreign population Spaniards use to score is North Italy.

And Italians also use to score Iberian, Frenchs also and after those British.

I don´t think that implies to have any Italian ancestor in most of cases(or Iberian in British or French cases), simply close population overlapping...

[Damião de Góis]

If you mean "italian" on 23andme then i think it's common to score low ammounts. I score 2.7%, but before the last update used to score a bit more.
Your 10% is probably higher than average.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

When I first tested I used to get 10% Italian on 23andMe. Presently only 2.6%. From what I remember you never tested with 23andMe? If you do, you will be phased with your parents results and likely you will score little to no Italian ancestry. My father is scoring 5% Italian and my wife 3.3% on 23andMe.

Italian on K36 is normal, nearly all Europeans score some percentage of it in that run.

[gixajo]

Do Portuguese score Sardinian also in those tests?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Do Portuguese score Sardinian also in those tests?

Very minimal and residual. From what I remember I used to have 0.1% Sardinian but after the updates in the past years it became 0%.

[Damião de Góis]

Do Portuguese score Sardinian also in those tests?

After the last update, i now score 0.4% Sardinian on 23andme. First time i do also.

[Ruderico]

In 23andme you'll stuggle to find many Portuguese who don't score any Italian. Ironically I don't score any (unphased results), that's how I know I'm the clear minority here.

I opened a few random Portuguese matches (4 GPs) and here are their scores for Italian: 2.3%; 8.2%; 5.6%; 10.0%; 8.0%; 6.5%; 3.4%; 4.7%.
Most Portuguese get somewhere between 3 to 8%, but 10% isn't really surprising.

[brian321]

I get almost 25% italian on livingdna and heritage because my grandfather was half italian but regardless portugal and italy have almost identical haplogroup ratios thats why Portuguese score italian

[Chris596]

When I first tested I used to get 10% Italian on 23andMe. Presently only 2.6%. From what I remember you never tested with 23andMe? If you do, you will be phased with your parents results and likely you will score little to no Italian ancestry. My father is scoring 5% Italian and my wife 3.3% on 23andMe.

Italian on K36 is normal, nearly all Europeans score some percentage of it in that run.

Personally I don't like K36, it gives me very unusual results. My Italian+Iberian+Basque score is more than 20% there, very unusual results. Meanwhile my Balkan score is even lower than the Iberian, so it just doesn't work for me.

[Luke35]

Personally I don't like K36, it gives me very unusual results. My Italian+Iberian+Basque score is more than 20% there, very unusual results. Meanwhile my Balkan score is even lower than the Iberian, so it just doesn't work for me.

I know that the component %'s look weird (I don't think anybody get very high Balkan on that calc), LukaszM actually does a nice oracle/ancestry report from those components, so I think there is some value in it.

[Luso]

In 23andme you'll stuggle to find many Portuguese who don't score any Italian. Ironically I don't score any (unphased results), that's how I know I'm the clear minority here.

I opened a few random Portuguese matches (4 GPs) and here are their scores for Italian: 2.3%; 8.2%; 5.6%; 10.0%; 8.0%; 6.5%; 3.4%; 4.7%.
Most Portuguese get somewhere between 3 to 8%, but 10% isn't really surprising.

I'm thinking maybe it is b/c I'm from southern Portugal??? And there is a connection with conii's being Ligurians? Idk possible.

[Luso]

Also, question to Portuguese. How much north west Europe do you guys get on 23andMe? Is 12.8% in the avg?

[brian321]

Look at how similar portugal and italy are here https://mk0brilliantmaptxoqs.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/genetic-map-europe-600x680.png?p=696

[Ruderico]

I'm thinking maybe it is b/c I'm from southern Portugal??? And there is a connection with conii's being Ligurians? Idk possible.

Forget Ligurians or any pre-historical people (Ligurians weren't in Portugal anyway), this sort of variations happens both north and south, and is a consequence of random DNA recombination and repopulations that happened during the middle ages - meaning southern Portuguese are descended from northerners who settled south after the territory was conquered from muslims before 1249. This north->south movement happened well into modern times, as the north is heavily populated and the south very lightly, with the exception of a few cities, like Evora, which used to be fairly large in the middle ages.

Your 12.8% NW Euro in 23andme is very high and above what most people score. I have 7.2% which should be average-ish, and I'm a northerner. Some people score clearly below this, including other northerners. And southerners.
My results are in my signature, if you're curious.

Also don't mind haplogroup pie charts, Portugal is only similar to northern Italy as far as that contry goes, but even then there are clear differences.

[brian321]

Forget Ligurians or any pre-historical people (Ligurians weren't in Portugal anyway), this sort of variations happens both north and south, and is a consequence of random DNA recombination and repopulations that happened during the middle ages - meaning southern Portuguese are descended from northerners who settled south after the territory was conquered from muslims before 1249. This north->south movement happened well into modern times, as the north is heavily populated and the south very lightly, with the exception of a few cities, like Evora, which used to be fairly large in the middle ages.

Your 12.8% NW Euro in 23andme is very high and above what most people score. I have 7.2% which should be average-ish, and I'm a northerner. Some people score clearly below this, including other northerners. And southerners.
My results are in my signature, if you're curious.

Also don't mind haplogroup pie charts, Portugal is only similar to northern Italy as far as that contry goes, but even then there are clear differences.

Portugal haplogrouo is very similar to the total combined average italy haplogroup thats why

[Ruderico]

Portugal haplogrouo is very similar to the total combined average italy haplogroup thats why

It's not that similar because of different subclades your map doesn't show. If that were a good argument you could say Portugal is more similar to Italy or Swizerland than Spain, which would be pretty dumb.
Not that is matters, because autosomal DNA is the key, not haplogroups, and certainly not your random map

[brian321]

It's not that similar because of different subclades your map doesn't show. If that were a good argument you could say Portugal is more similar to Italy than Spain, whuch would be pretty dumb.
Not that is matters, because autosomal DNA is the key, not haplogroups, and certainly not a random map


Many Portuguese and soith italians look alike having a ancient middle east look why do u think people say theyre the darkest

[Ruderico]

Oh, you're one of those. Go away

[Morena]

I would love to see a pre and post Roman colonization comparison of DNA. How much Italian DNA is due to this and how much of it is due to general similarities?

[Luso]

I would love to see a pre and post Roman colonization comparison of DNA. How much Italian DNA is due to this and how much of it is due to general similarities?

I suppose it’s possible I had an Italian ancestor maybe. Not sure

[brian321]

Oh, you're one of those. Go away

Sorry your one of those who gets so offended but on the apricity users chose south italy and portugal to be the darkest ethncities my k13 #1 spot is portguese. If someone does not have italian ancestors the only explanation they get alot of italy results is because of the haplogroups period the end buddy

[Damião de Góis]

Oh, you're one of those. Go away

lol, you're being trolled by one of the multiple retarded sudacas that dwell here.

[brian321]

lol, you're being trolled by one of the multiple retarded sudacas that dwell here.

Sorry your one of those who gets so offended but on the apricity users chose south italy and portugal to be the darkest ethncities my k13 #1 spot is portguese. If someone does not have italian ancestors the only explanation they get alot of italy results is because of the haplogroups period the end buddy

[Damião de Góis]

Sorry your one of those who gets so offended but on the apricity users chose south italy and portugal to be the darkest ethncities my k13 #1 spot is portguese. If someone does not have italian ancestors the only explanation they get alot of italy results is because of the haplogroups period the end buddy

Ok.

At what distance do you get portuguese on k13?

[brian321]

Ok.

At what distance do you get portuguese on k13?

It was like 7 and thats because of my tiny amount of north african ans native american so what doesnt change what i said above

[Damião de Góis]

It was like 7 and thats because of my tiny amount of north african ans native american so what doesnt change what i said above

If 7 is your top distance, it means you plot in the middle of nowhere and aren't really close to anyone. You can check which populations are close to you by looking at distances <= 5.

[Luso]

Always maybe not, I don´t know well about Portugueses, but Spaniards do, is quite common.

Usually closest foreign population Spaniards use to score is North Italy.

And Italians also use to score Iberian, Frenchs also and after those British.

I don´t think that implies to have any Italian ancestor in most of cases(or Iberian in British or French cases), simply close population overlapping...

Good point, it probably is just population overlap.

[brian321]

Good point, it probably is just population overlap.

How is it overlap when there are spaniards and portuguese who score no italian and vice versa

[Luso]

How is it overlap when there are spaniards and portuguese who score no italian and vice versa

idk, but loads of Spaniards and Portuguese get some Italian.

[Ruderico]

lol, you're being trolled by one of the multiple retarded sudacas that dwell here.

This place has always been a madhouse, but I just want to help our foreign-born friend Luso making some sense out of the results

[PT Tagus]

I get 7,9% Italian on 23andMe.

[Luso]

When I first tested I used to get 10% Italian on 23andMe. Presently only 2.6%. From what I remember you never tested with 23andMe? If you do, you will be phased with your parents results and likely you will score little to no Italian ancestry. My father is scoring 5% Italian and my wife 3.3% on 23andMe.

Italian on K36 is normal, nearly all Europeans score some percentage of it in that run.

Yeah, I never actually did test with 23andme but my dad got 5% and mom 10%

[Damião de Góis]

Yeah, I never actually did test with 23andme but my dad got 5% and mom 10%

How much italian do you get on k36?

[Luso]

How much italian do you get on k36?

15.17% Italian

[Damião de Góis]

15.17% Italian

I have more than you on k36 at 19.14. On 23andme i have 2.7 so what is labeled as italian on different runs is not the same thing. It's difficult to make conclusions about any italian dna.

[Luso]

I have more than you on k36 at 19.14. On 23andme i have 2.7 so what is labeled as italian on different runs is not the same thing. It's difficult to make conclusions about any italian dna.

Yeah, hmm then obviously I can't make the conclusion then. Most Portuguese and Spaniards get some supporting the idea that overlap is happening.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Also, question to Portuguese. How much north west Europe do you guys get on 23andMe? Is 12.8% in the avg?

Initially I got nearly 20% Northwest. After updates and phasing with my father's results I get 1.6% (everything got "sucked" into Iberian, which I score 90.1%).

[Luso]

Initially I got nearly 20% Northwest. After updates and phasing with my father's results I get 1.6% (everything got "sucked" into Iberian, which I score 90.1%).

That sounds more accurate... I'm sure that'll happen to me as well once I get ahold of my results.

[Ruderico]

Yeah, hmm then obviously I can't make the conclusion then. Most Portuguese and Spaniards get some supporting the idea that overlap is happening.

There's obviously some shared DNA between Iberia and Italy (or Iberia and the British Isles, or Italy and France, etc) so splitting it into two different and independent components will always be problematic, and the result will always depend on the methodology and references that were used in the analysis.

That said we know that Iberia wasn't settled by populations originally from Central/Eastern Mediterranean until the Roman period, and looking at archaeology, toponymy, linguistics, etc it is very clear Romans were the main culprits in this S/SE-shift that happened in Iberia, even if smaller amounts of people from all over the Mediterranean moved here and might have contributed a small amount to our genetic history. As such, if one assumes most non-north African central/east Mediterranean influence in Iberia were of Roman origin, we can generally see which individuals are more "Italian-like" due to their drift in the direction of SE Europe. Naturally this isn't absolutely and strictly true for every individual, but broadly speaking that should be the case.

[Lucazk9]

There's obviously some shared DNA between Iberia and Italy (or Iberia and the British Isles, or Italy and France, etc) so splitting it into two different and independent components will always be problematic, and the result will always depend on the methodology and references that were used in the analysis.

well yes, ALL Europeans are more closely related to each other than they are to other ethnicities and share DNA.Its not suprising that also Iberia and Italy overlap.

[Luso]

well yes, ALL Europeans are more closely related to each other than they are to other ethnicities and share DNA.Its not suprising that also Iberia and Italy overlap.

I guess being super westward it may be more surprising. However, over the course of history it makes huge amounts of sense. In ancient terms, Romans obviously in Portugal... but also I'm sure people went to southern Portugal from Italy as well in recent times.

[Ruderico]

I guess being super westward it may be more surprising. However, over the course of history it makes huge amounts of sense. In ancient terms, Romans obviously in Portugal... but also I'm sure people went to southern Portugal from Italy as well in recent times.
Being "super westward" doesn't mean much, Basques aren't "super westward" yet look at how unique they are.

Why southern Portugal specifically? We know there were Italian families in the north too (and the islands), but whether or not they left an impact is a whole different thing. My guess is that, for most people, they did not. If you want to know if you have Italian ancestors you should
a) triangulate DNA segments with people of known Italian background
b) research your genealogy