European Ancestry and Genetic Clusters

[JohnJack]

European Ancestry and Genetic Clusters

I had this idea from this thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?273950-European-Genetic-Clusters

Insular Celtic and Germanic

(England, except Cornwall)

Descends from Bell Beakers and Anglo-Saxons.

Insular Celtic

(Scotland, Isle of Man, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany)

Descends from British and Irish Bell Beakers.

South Germanic

(Netherlands, Flanders, Bremen, Lower Saxony, North Rhine-Westphalia)

Descends from Germanic tribes who expanded south.

Gaulish

(Ile-de-France, Nord-Pas de Calais, Picardy, Normandy, Champagne-Ardenne, Pays de Loire, Centre-Val de Loire, Limousin, Auvergne, Burgundy, Walloons, Poitou-Charentes)

Also, does Poitou-Charentes cluster close to SW France or NW France?

Descends from ancient Gaulish tribes.

Aquitanian

(Basque Country, Navarre, Aquitaine)

Descends from Aquitanians.

Celtic and Germanic

(Alsace-Lorraine, Franche-Comte, Switzerland, Tyrol, South Tyrol, Vorarlberg, Baden-Wurttemberg, Saarland, Hesse, Rhineland-Palatinate, Bavaria, Luxemburg, Liechtenstein)

Descends from Celtic and Germanic tribes.

Italic and Celtic

(Midi-Pyrenees, Rhone-Alpes, Languedoc-Roussillon, Provence-Alpes-Côte d’Azur, Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Aosta Valley, Emilia-Romagna, Trentino, Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia)

Descends from Latins, Celts, and other groups such as the Ligurians, Venetians, Lepontics, and Rhaetians.

Portugal

(Portugal and Galicia)

Descends from Bronze Age inhabitants of the area.

Catalonia

(Catalonia, Valencia, Murcia, Balearic Islands)

Descends from Bronze Age inhabitants of the area.

Spain

(Asturias, Cantabria, La Rioja, Castile and Leon, Madrid, Castile la Mancha, Aragon, Extremadura, Andalucia)

Descends from Bronze Age inhabitants of the area.

Sardinia

(Sardinia)

Descends from ancient Sardinians.



(Tuscany, Marche, Umbria, Lazio, Abruzzo, Molisie, Corsica)

Descends from Etruscans and Latins.

Italic and Greek

(Campania, Puglia, Basilicata, Calabria, Sicily)

Descends from invading Greeks and previous Latins.

Slavic and Celto-Germanic

(Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Berlin, Saxony-Anhalt, Brandenburg, Thuringia, Saxony, Salzburg, Carinthia, Styria, Upper Austria, Lower Austria, Vienna, Burgenland, Czechia, Hungary, Bratislava, Zapadoslovensky, Stredoslovensky, Western Pomerania, Lubusz, Greater Poland, Lower Silesia, Opole, Silesia)

Descends from Proto-Slavs, but with a Celto-Germanic substrate. However, in the case of Poland a pre-Slavic substrate.

Slavic

(Pommerania, Kuyavian-Pomeranian, Lodz, Warmian-Masurian, Masovia, Świętokrzyskie, Lesser Poland, Subcarpathian, Lublin, Podlaskie, Vychodoslovensky, Ukraine, Belarus, western and southern Russia)

Descends from Proto-Slavs who expanded out of Belarus/Ukraine border and replaced the previous populations of Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia.

Baltic

(Lithuania, Latvia)

Descends from Baltic tribes.

Finnic

(Finland, Estonia, northern Russia)

Descends from Finno-Ugric tribes.

Northern Yugoslavs

(Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia)

Descends from Illyrians and Proto-Slavs.

Southern South Yugoslavs

(Serbia, Montenegro)
Descends from Illyrians and Proto-Slavs but with less Slavic admixture.

Albanian

(Albania and Kosovo)

Descends from Illyrians.

Dacian

(Romania and Moldova)

Descends from Dacians.

Thracian

(Bulgaria and Macedonia)

Descends from Thracians and Macedons.

Greeks

(Greece and Cyprus)

Descends from ancient Greeks.



Is this correct? If not I will make a new one.

[Samnium]

European Ancestry and Genetic Clusters

I had this idea from this thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?273950-European-Genetic-Clusters

[/B]

Very uncorrect, atleast for Italy and France.

An example : Rhone-Alpes as a whole belongs to the Central French cluster (with some parts leaning toward Northern French cluster and others toward Southern French), it should been included in the "Gaullish" category.

Apulia is very similar to Molise and Abruzzo genetically, yet it's with Campania.

Midi-Pyrenees is very Iberian shifted, 0 italic.

I could do that with many regions but it gives you an idea why your categories are nonsensical.

They don't correspond to any genetical reality

[dududud]

Midi-Pyrenees is Gaulish by genealogy. They are French, not iberian.

[gixajo]

1. Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. [2] Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt. Gallos ab Aquitanis Garumna flumen, a Belgis Matrona et Sequana dividit. [3] Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae, propterea quod a cultu atque humanitate provinciae longissime absunt, minimeque ad eos mercatores saepe commeant atque ea quae ad effeminandos animos pertinent important, [4] proximique sunt Germanis, qui trans Rhenum incolunt, quibuscum continenter bellum gerunt. Qua de causa Helvetii quoque reliquos Gallos virtute praecedunt, quod fere cotidianis proeliis cum Germanis contendunt, cum aut suis finibus eos prohibent aut ipsi in eorum finibus bellum gerunt. [5] [Eorum una, pars, quam Gallos obtinere dictum est, initium capit a flumine Rhodano, continetur Garumna flumine, Oceano, finibus Belgarum, attingit etiam ab Sequanis et Helvetiis flumen Rhenum, vergit ad septentriones. [6] Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur, pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni, spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem. [7] Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et eam partem Oceani quae est ad Hispaniam pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones.]
C. Julius Caesar. C. Iuli Commentarii Rerum in Gallia Gestarum VII A. Hirti Commentarius VII. T. Rice Holmes. Oxonii. e Typographeo Clarendoniano. 1914. Scriptorum Classicorum Bibliotheca Oxoniensis.


1. All Gaul is divided into three parts, one of which the Belgae inhabit, the Aquitani another, those who in their own language are called Celts, in our Gauls, the third. All these differ from each other in language, customs and laws. The river Garonne separates the Gauls from the Aquitani; the Marne and the Seine separate them from the Belgae. Of all these, the Belgae are the bravest, because they are furthest from the civilization and refinement of [our] Province, and merchants least frequently resort to them, and import those things which tend to effeminate the mind; and they are the nearest to the Germans, who dwell beyond the Rhine , with whom they are continually waging war; for which reason the Helvetii also surpass the rest of the Gauls in valor, as they contend with the Germans in almost daily battles, when they either repel them from their own territories, or themselves wage war on their frontiers. One part of these, which it has been said that the Gauls occupy, takes its beginning at the river Rhone ; it is bounded by the river Garonne, the ocean, and the territories of the Belgae; it borders, too, on the side of the Sequani and the Helvetii, upon the river Rhine , and stretches toward the north. The Belgae rises from the extreme frontier of Gaul, extend to the lower part of the river Rhine ; and look toward the north and the rising sun. Aquitania extends from the river Garonne to the Pyrenaean mountains and to that part of the ocean which is near Spain: it looks between the setting of the sun, and the north star.
C. Julius Caesar. Caesar's Gallic War. Translator. W. A. McDevitte. Translator. W. S. Bohn. 1st Edition. New York. Harper & Brothers. 1869. Harper's New Classical Library.

[Chris596]

Interesting, I just want to add something:

Hungary should be included under Slavs or South Slavs (based on the genetic results of the majority). Maybe under Finno-Ugric too, because there are people like me for example, I get Finno-Ugric ethnicities in many calculators at the Population Oracle (or Siberian/Central/East-Asian).

[J. Ketch]

Is this correct? If not I will make a new one.
NW Europe is one cluster and there are 3 main semi-clusters within its core:

North Germanic (centred on Southern Scandinavians, Northern Germans and Northern Dutch)
Insular/British (centred on British Isles and Brittany)
South Germanic/Northern French (centred on Southern Dutch, Southern Germans, Belgians and northernmost French from Alsace to Upper Normandy)

East Germans and Austrians are peripheral NW Euro's who may or may not be counted, just like many French, Swiss, Northern Swedes.

[Jana]

Inccorect. Try better next time.

[xripkan]

Very uncorrect, atleast for Italy and France.

An example : Rhone-Alpes as a whole belongs to the Central French cluster (with some parts leaning toward Northern French cluster and others toward Southern French), it should been included in the "Gaullish" category.

Apulia is very similar to Molise and Abruzzo genetically, yet it's with Campania.

Midi-Pyrenees is very Iberian shifted, 0 italic.

I could do that with many regions but it gives you an idea why your categories are nonsensical.

They don't correspond to any genetical reality

I would like to see the French clusters. Are there significant differentiations among the southern French regions?

[Samnium]

I would like to see the French clusters. Are there significant differentiations among the southern French regions?

Yes.

You can ask Peterski for that