Most unfortunately located countries?

[Tooting Carmen]

I would nominate:

Djibouti. A peaceful port, which happens to be surrounded by several war-torn or oppressive nations - Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yemen.

Iran. Their stupid government notwithstanding, the Iranian people are actually among the most secular and liberal people in the MENA world, and certainly one has to feel pity for them, considering they have Iraq to their West, Pakistan and Afghanistan to their East, Saudi Arabia not too far to their Southwest...

Jordan. One of the more peaceful and benign countries in the Middle East, yet they have Syria and Iraq to their North, Israel and the Palestinian Territories to their West, Saudi Arabia to their East...

Mongolia. They are a landlocked country squeezed between both Russia and China. Enough said.

Poland. Historically vulnerable to German and Russian aggression, not least because both have regarded it as a 'security buffer' against the other.

Thailand. Despite its frequent military coups and oppressive royal family, most of the time it has been a relative bastion of democracy and liberty when compared to its neighbours Myanmar, China, Laos and Cambodia, all of which have duly sent lots of refugees over to Thailand throughout the years.

[sean]

Oman:

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1496847944246.jpg

Oman is perhaps the least worst of all Muslim countries. Secretive country with an odd form of Islam that was an offshoot of the Kharijite faith.

Located between Sunni and Shia worlds, they're neither Sunni nor Shia, they're Ibadis who don't have a history of violence one way or the other.

Oman's transition away from British rule is one of the few examples of decolonisation done right (that you don't hear much about the details of this is not a coincidence).

The government is progressive although it emphasises tradition and their culture, so that puts them ahead of practically all Middle Eastern governments.

For example, gays aren't thrown off buildings, they are just imprisoned for a few years.

Apostasy isn't a crime, although you will be shunned by the community and you can freely practice other religions that don't cause a public nuisance.

Tolerance of any other religions, there are permanent churches and temples of other faiths as well.

Women in Oman aren't treated as second class citizens by law, although they are culturally. If a women gets raped she isn't punished for it and instead the rapist gets punished.

[Crn Volk]

The Volkstaat Republic

[Vojnik]

Macedonia doesn’t make it to the list? Historically, it has been much more unfortunate then any of the mentioned.

[Tooting Carmen]

Macedonia doesn’t make it to the list? Historically, it has been much more unfortunate then any of the mentioned.

How so?

[lameduck]

Pakistan , our largest borders are with hostile neighbours India and Afghanistan , when you have to focus too much on security , you simply cant focus on nation building , which most young pakistanis want at the moment, along with new civil military establishment.

[Moje ime]

All Balkan countries.

[gixajo]

Afghanistan.

[Universe]

Moldova and Ukraine are in bad geopolitic position: between east(Russia) and west(EU), not belonging to either block.

Baltic countries because they are very small countries with few people next to a huge Russia who easily overrun them. It's not really true anymore because NATO protects them, but Baltic countries are still fearful of Russia and its foreign-policy and not without reason as we saw what happened to Crimea. Russians are still a sizeable minority in Baltic countries.

The situation of Finland can be compared to that of Baltic countries(although Finland managed to stop Russian invasion in 1939-1940).

Landlocked countries generally are in disadvantage compared to other countries that have access to sea/ocean.

[Maintenance]

Any landlocked country.

[Crn Volk]

Any landlocked country.

Idk Switzerland and Austria seem to do ok

[oszkar07]

I would nominate:

Djibouti. A peaceful port, which happens to be surrounded by several war-torn or oppressive nations - Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yemen.

Iran. Their stupid government notwithstanding, the Iranian people are actually among the most secular and liberal people in the MENA world, and certainly one has to feel pity for them, considering they have Iraq to their West, Pakistan and Afghanistan to their East, Saudi Arabia not too far to their Southwest...

Jordan. One of the more peaceful and benign countries in the Middle East, yet they have Syria and Iraq to their North, Israel and the Palestinian Territories to their West, Saudi Arabia to their East...

Mongolia. They are a landlocked country squeezed between both Russia and China. Enough said.

Poland. Historically vulnerable to German and Russian aggression, not least because both have regarded it as a 'security buffer' against the other.

Thailand. Despite its frequent military coups and oppressive royal family, most of the time it has been a relative bastion of democracy and liberty when compared to its neighbours Myanmar, China, Laos and Cambodia, all of which have duly sent lots of refugees over to Thailand throughout the years.



AGREE

[Ülev]

Russia, me think, enemies all around

https://img1.eadaily.com/r650x400/o/8d8/370ef1249d72b81ebe42148f37924.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

Spain, near of africa. Africa!
And not near of any country, noooo... near of the worst of the African countries, Morocco.

[SamSmith]

Britain. Too far North.
That's why I look like a ghost most of the time.

[Satem]

Most of Oceanian countries since they are far from mainland, also many volcanoes, typhoons and stuff nearby

[Finnish Swede]

In Europe? Finland, Estonia .....

[PaleoEuropean]

Any landlocked country.

I cant even fathom not being able to freely drive to the ocean xD.

[Davystayn]

Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, etc

[alnortedelsur]

Bolivia and Paraguay.

And Paraguay being a buffer state landlocked between Brazil and Argentina.

[Ford]

Atlantis

[Jana]

Poland. Between Germany and Russia with no natural barriers between them.

[Ülev]

Tatarstan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Tatarstani_sovereignty_referendum

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/remembering-referendums-tatarst-201441791739224343.html

[Roy]

Poland (no efficient natural west & east boundaries to protect against invaders - albeit historically speaking the majority of conflicts and invaders came from the east).

[El_Abominacion]

Chad.

Geographically, it's a landlocked country over half of which is an arid desert, it's scorching hot with extended periods of drought and in the middle of Africa. When it does rain after droughts it brings heavy flooding which destroys any sort of progress.

Otherwise, it's one of the poorest countries in the world along with one of the most corrupt. It was in a religious civil war until 2010 after France relinquished colonial rule, being located in a region with both Muslim North Africans and Christian Sub Saharan Africans.

[Adamm]

Any landlocked country with an incompetent government.

[Tooting Carmen]

Bolivia and Paraguay.

And Paraguay being a buffer state landlocked between Brazil and Argentina.

Bolivia I can sort of agree with. Paraguay, however, has its current borders largely because it started and lost the Triple Alliance War, so to a large extent it only has itself to blame.

[Duffmannn]

France has been bullied by England, then Spain, then Germany and became a puppet of the UK during both world wars.

Despite its perfect geography and ubication.

[Incal]

1) Lebanon. Its neighbours have been its ruin.

2) Any country bordering Turkey.

[Mingle]

For example, gays aren't thrown off buildings, they are just imprisoned for a few years.

Only ISIS and maybe some vigilantes do that. AFAIK, Iran is the only country where there people that engage in gay sex get the death penalty (though they're not thrown off buildings).

[Iltirbas]

Greece, Spain, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Namibia, Costa Rica, Vietnam.

[Tooting Carmen]

Only ISIS and maybe some vigilantes do that. AFAIK, Iran is the only country where there people that engage in gay sex get the death penalty (though they're not thrown off buildings).

Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and parts of Nigeria also.

[Tooting Carmen]

France has been bullied by England, then Spain, then Germany and became a puppet of the UK during both world wars.

Despite its perfect geography and ubication.

Both within and especially outside Europe, I'd say France has been rather more of a bully itself than a victim.

[Tooting Carmen]

Greece, Spain, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Namibia, Costa Rica, Vietnam.

Could you give explanations for each one?

[Voskos]

The islands I'd say. We're cut off from economic activity.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

I would nominate:

Djibouti. A peaceful port, which happens to be surrounded by several war-torn or oppressive nations - Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yemen.

Iran. Their stupid government notwithstanding, the Iranian people are actually among the most secular and liberal people in the MENA world, and certainly one has to feel pity for them, considering they have Iraq to their West, Pakistan and Afghanistan to their East, Saudi Arabia not too far to their Southwest...

Jordan. One of the more peaceful and benign countries in the Middle East, yet they have Syria and Iraq to their North, Israel and the Palestinian Territories to their West, Saudi Arabia to their East...

Mongolia. They are a landlocked country squeezed between both Russia and China. Enough said.

Poland. Historically vulnerable to German and Russian aggression, not least because both have regarded it as a 'security buffer' against the other.

Thailand. Despite its frequent military coups and oppressive royal family, most of the time it has been a relative bastion of democracy and liberty when compared to its neighbours Myanmar, China, Laos and Cambodia, all of which have duly sent lots of refugees over to Thailand throughout the years.

I totally agree with Thailand, its crazy despite all the militaru coups and strikes, the country is completely different of its neighbors, Thailand is more free, modern and better to live.

[Mingle]

Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and parts of Nigeria also.

Do you have a source regarding people from those countries being executed for having gay sex by the government and not vigilantes?

[Incal]

Could you give explanations for each one?

hey are pretty obvious... The only curiosity to me is Namibia.

[Tooting Carmen]

Do you have a source regarding people from those countries being executed for having gay sex by the government and not vigilantes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

[Tooting Carmen]

hey are pretty obvious... The only curiosity to me is Namibia.

Well I suppose it's near Angola and the DRC, and didn't even gain independence till 1991.

[Mingle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

So I was right. Iran is the only country where people are killed for having gay sex. There are other countries where the death penalty for it exists, but it's not enforced, therefore people aren't actually being killed for having gay sex there.

[Lazio]

Mongolia. They are a landlocked country squeezed between both Russia and China. Enough said.


Not as bad as it sounds... Mongolia has a good relationship with Russia and the "Russia" in the North is not filled with Ivans, we all know Ivanistan is only highly Slavic in the Westernmost part... by Eastern part it's full of native people of those lands, also Asians, and much more like the Mongolians in lifestyle... and about China, well, historically Mongolians faced Chinese with full force... bringing to nowadays world, Mongolians could use guerrila tatics to face China again, most of Mongolian territory is a waste land, even bombs could not have an effective result on them, they would have nothing to lose and many things to win in a war, so yeah, I wouldn't say Mongolians are in a terrible situation like other countries (they couldn't get any worse, they don't even care much because they are resilient/highly adaptable... and that is their advantage).

[Incal]

Well I suppose it's near Angola and the DRC, and didn't even gain independence till 1991.

I think when it comes to Africa, regardless who your neighbors are, you are fucked anyway lol

The only exception would probably be Madagascar.

[Pater Patota]

Not as bad as it sounds... Mongolia has a good relationship with Russia and the "Russia" in the North is not filled with Ivans, we all know Ivanistan is only highly Slavic in the Westernmost part... by Eastern part it's full of native people of those lands, also Asians, and much more like the Mongolians in lifestyle... and about China, well, historically Mongolians faced Chinese with full force... bringing to nowadays world, Mongolians could use guerrila tatics to face China again, most of Mongolian territory is a waste land, even bombs could not have an effective result on them, they would have nothing to lose and many things to win in a war, so yeah, I wouldn't say Mongolians are in a terrible situation like other countries (they couldn't get any worse, they don't even care much because they are resilient/highly adaptable... and that is their advantage).

There is no any conflict between China and Mongolia, non of them hate each other.

[Universe]

edit: double post

[Universe]

Not as bad as it sounds... Mongolia has a good relationship with Russia and the "Russia" in the North is not filled with Ivans, we all know Ivanistan is only highly Slavic in the Westernmost part... by Eastern part it's full of native people of those lands, also Asians, and much more like the Mongolians in lifestyle...

Wrong. This is a common misconception about Russia.
Russians are majority of the population even in far eastern parts.
https://i.redd.it/vc6hnxib85821.png
Eastern Russia has its native people but their number was low so Russian and Ukrainians settlers from West easily outnumbered them...

[Zeno]

Greece. We are surrounded by the worst countries ever. Except Italy ofc. We have fucking Turks and the Balkans, one of the most unstable places on Earth historically. In this desert, in this chaos, we are the only oasis. We're the only country in the region that is and has been Western, despite being geographically East.

[eatensemn]

Greece. We're the only country in the region that is and has been Western, despite being geographically East.

https://i.imgur.com/Enjsi37.jpg

[Zeno]

https://i.imgur.com/Enjsi37.jpg

Well, half the English vocabulary derives from Greek. Especially in medicine and biology and sciences in general.

[Universe]

edit :)

[Ford]

Well, half the English vocabulary derives from Greek. Especially in medicine and biology and sciences in general.

Not even close lol.

[Zeno]

Not even close lol.

Directly or indirectly, through Latin. When Greek terms through Latin are included, it's literally half the English vocabulary. Without these words even, Greek constitutes 25-30% of the English language's vocabulary.

[Dušan]

Greece. We are surrounded by the worst countries ever. Except Italy ofc. We have fucking Turks and the Balkans, one of the most unstable places on Earth historically. In this desert, in this chaos, we are the only oasis. We're the only country in the region that is and has been Western, despite being geographically East.

Mainland Greece is Balkans, as same as Serbia, Bulgaria and Bosnia.

[Chris596]

Mainland Greece is Balkans, as same as Serbia, Bulgaria and Bosnia.

I might as well mention Hungary, in the middle of Europe, landlocked just like Serbia, does not maintain a good relationship with some of its neighbors (sadly). But it's the way it is, we have to adapt.

[Zeno]

Mainland Greece is Balkans, as same as Serbia, Bulgaria and Bosnia.

Geographically, obviously. I mean, they're IN the Balkan peninsula's area. But in all other aspects, Greece isn't Balkan. The only thing common with the Balkans is the shared geographic location.

[Tooting Carmen]

Geographically, obviously. I mean, they're IN the Balkan peninsula's area. But in all other aspects, Greece isn't Balkan. The only thing common with the Balkans is the shared geographic location.

What about the Orthodox faith? And a shared history of Ottoman colonisation?

[Zeno]

What about the Orthodox faith? And a shared history of Ottoman colonisation?

This also. But not all Balkan countries are Orthodox. And Greece had the shortest Ottoman occupation period.

[Dušan]

This also. But not all Balkan countries are Orthodox. And Greece had the shortest Ottoman occupation period.

We together liberated our countries from Ottoman occupation in 1912.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Balkan_League_poster.png/300px-Balkan_League_poster.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Balkan_League_and_Hagia_Sophia.jpg

[Zeno]

We together liberated our countries from Ottoman occupation in 1912.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Balkan_League_poster.png/300px-Balkan_League_poster.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Balkan_League_and_Hagia_Sophia.jpg

Macedonia, Crete and Epirus were liberated in 1912. The rest of the mainland and the Islands were all liberated until 1880.

And I'm not trying to downplay Greek-Serbian friendly relations, don't worry.

[Tooting Carmen]

And I'm not trying to downplay Greek-Serbian friendly relations, don't worry.

Along with Israel and Russia, Greece was one of the few countries to support Serbia during the 90's.

[The Lawspeaker]

The Low Countries both have the best and worst real estate. Sandwiched as we are between the British, the Germans and the French do all three of us enjoy excellent trade relations with all three of them (basically serving as Germany's port) but also serving as a funnel for troops when the Germans, the Brits and the French go at it again. Thankfully, they haven't done so for the last half a century but we're still licking our wounds from the last couple of times that they did.

[Tooting Carmen]

The Low Countries both have the best and worst real estate. Sandwiched as we are between the British, the Germans and the French do all three of us enjoy excellent trade relations with all three of them (basically serving as Germany's port) but also serving as a funnel for troops when the Germans, the Brits and the French go at it again. Thankfully, they haven't done so for the last half a century but we're still licking our wounds from the last couple of times that they did.

Well economists do refer to NW Europe as the continent's 'golden triangle', given the amount of trade and travel that takes place there - London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well economists do refer to NW Europe as the continent's 'golden triangle', given the amount of trade and travel that takes place there - London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt.


They do. But historians can tell you that it's also Europe's historical flashpoint and battlefield.

[Tooting Carmen]

They do. But historians can tell you that it's also Europe's historical flashpoint and battlefield.

The two are intertwined, since both are the result of the highly competitive nature of the peoples in the region. (That it is the Northwest of the continent, and not the South or the East, that has been the main driver of continental and to an extent global affairs for the past four or five centuries explains much of the butthurt and controversy in this forum).

[The Lawspeaker]

The two are intertwined, since both are the result of the highly competitive nature of the peoples in the region. (That it is the Northwest of the continent, and not the South or the East, that has been the main driver of continental and to an extent global affairs for the past four or five centuries explains much of the butthurt and controversy in this forum).


Absolutely. This is why I said that we have both the best possible real estate... and the worst. Consequently, from a perspective of the Low Countries, we often couldn't 1) stand each other 2) develop any positive sentiments for either the French or the Germans.

[KirillMazur]

Ethiopia. A significant part of the country is located in mountainous areas, where fertile soils are almost absent - it is difficult for them to feed their own population.
Plus, there is no access to the sea - the coast now belongs to such "states" as Eritrea and Djibouti.
Plus the neighborhood with Somalia and Sudan (eternal "hot spots" since 1980s).

[Dušan]

Macedonia, Crete and Epirus were liberated in 1912. The rest of the mainland and the Islands were all liberated until 1880.

And I'm not trying to downplay Greek-Serbian friendly relations, don't worry.

As same as Serbia, that achieved independence in 1878, but liberated its southern parts in 1912, in Balkan league together with Greece and Bulgaria.

It's ok.
I consider Greeks both Mediterranean and Balkan nation, just like we are both Balkan and Slavic nation (I dont see term Balkans in negative conotations). Identity is complex thing.

[Zeno]

As same as Serbia, that achieved independence in 1878, but liberated its southern parts in 1912, in Balkan league together with Greece and Bulgaria.

It's ok.
I consider Greeks both Mediterranean and Balkan nation, just like we are both Balkan and Slavic nation (I dont see term Balkans in negative conotations). Identity is complex thing.

Yeah, I understand. But I just don't consider Greece to be that Balkan, apart from Orthodoxy. I however think Serbs as broskis :)

[Zeno]

I'll have to add that I previously said Balkans are the worst neighborhood because of the instability. I don't hate the people of the Balkans :)

[oszkar07]

I might as well mention Hungary, in the middle of Europe, landlocked just like Serbia, does not maintain a good relationship with some of its neighbors (sadly). But it's the way it is, we have to adapt.

True ... and sadly .

Outside of Croatia ...Hungary has better ties with Poland than many of her neighbours.
But I think things have improved a bit ?

[eatensemn]

I think top of the list should be armenia. Small and landlocked. West side is turkey, border is closed and heavily guarded by turkey. East side is azerbaijan, clash zone; there's an ongoing low-density war. South iran, which is another muslim country and also population around the border mostly turkic. Georgia in the north is a christian country but has bitter relations with russia, which is father of armenia, so that way is also not reliable. Result= one of the poorest countries in the world, very low life standards.

[JohnnyP]

Macedonia, Crete and Epirus were liberated in 1912. The rest of the mainland and the Islands were all liberated until 1880.

And I'm not trying to downplay Greek-Serbian friendly relations, don't worry.

BrotherChe, something to be liberated needs to be occupied before, there were lived indigous people Macedonians.So in 1912-1913 these regions were OCCUPIED not Liberated...

[Zeno]

BrotherChe, something to be liberated needs to be occupied before, there were lived indigous people Macedonians.So in 1912-1913 these regions were OCCUPIED not Liberated...

Yeah... 50k in a province which had 1,3 million in times of Liberation... 75% of the population of Macedonia were Greeks and Greek muslim converts and another 20% were Turks.

[Lazio]

There is no any conflict between China and Mongolia, non of them hate each other.

That is a good joke. Show me a Mongolian that is neutral to Chinese... really. All I talked with deeply dislike them, both from UB or countryside. Inner Mongolia may be another story, but I'm not talking about them...

[alnortedelsur]

Israel. All surrounded by enemies.

[Lazio]

Wrong. This is a common misconception about Russia.
Russians are majority of the population even in far eastern parts.
https://i.redd.it/vc6hnxib85821.png
Eastern Russia has its native people but their number was low so Russian and Ukrainians settlers from West easily outnumbered them...

Why wrong? :) :confused: Read my post again, I didn't throw numbers to begin with.
Anyhow I do disagree with that, simply because any data like this (that the results might influence on the "patriotism" or "order" of the nation) from a government like Russia (Soviet or post-Soviet) is bullshit to me. Sure, there are ethinic Russians even in Mongolian and Kazakh cities... I do know/recognise that there are ethinic Russians in the Eastern part of "Russia"... but I don't believe they are "more than 80%" for any part there (or maybe they can really be - because of the cities, but if we take the countryside alone the majority still are the Asians - and in case of a conflict, nomads could do much better in a vast land that they can live anywhere, than people from cities that don't have the skills to go on the wild life (I'm focusing on the thread here) - so lets take any state/area/region of 3 cities/towns or so, in those towns they can have 80% of Slavs and 20% of Central Asians and all towns together will have a much higher population than the countryside... but they are surrounded by C. Asians nomad groups that occupy much more space in the state/area traveling arround all the time... so the state is filled with which group? Even if we embrace the data, it's a matter of perspective). In any case I will avoid to go on on what I believe and how I see the situation, because I cannot offer you any other data on it... so lets all believe for a moment in the percentages from their data and also don't use any "special" point of view on it, just the brute "fact": "Slavs are vastly majority on most areas/provinces in Russia"... that STILL wouldn't make what I said wrong (for instance, when a murican says "our country is filled by illegals" they are not saying "illegals are more than 50% of our population") and still wouldn't change what I said about the situation of Mongolia (because anyway they see Slavs as friends and they are not really city people so they wont try to gather with the people from the cities to begin with, they would rather gather with the others of the countryside).
So, thanks for Ivanistan's data, it's always interesting to see those things, but don't be so quick to lable things without at least giving some time to analyse it.

[Lazio]

Israel. All surrounded by enemies.


"As you sow so shall you reap" -Rodrigo Duterte

https://www.forumn.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/you-reap-what-you-sow-bible-758x482.jpg

[Hawkguy]

Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, South Sudan, the Francophone part of Africa, Bangladesh... There will always be instability, be it political, social and economic caused for countries that like to maintain their hegemony.

Nepal is between two regional powers (India and China).

North Korea because it has to endure having one neighbor listening to kpop. But seriously, I don't see the tensions between the Koreas ending anytime soon. And it must be problematic for South Korea having to listen that their brother every week threatening to blow up the world with the weapon of dialogue (Nuclear bomb, because rich countries don't care about you until you have a nuclear weapon).

[Lazio]

Nepal is between two regional powers (India and China).


https://pics.me.me/indias-open-defecation-problem-people-on-the-internet-reality-tha-52118199.png
https://a35iz1bymc-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/rat_cover.png
https://theatlas.com/i/atlas_S1fe33tEg.png

The only power India have is to annoy people with their English accent.

[Tooting Carmen]

Israel. All surrounded by enemies.

In part out of their own making, and I am saying that as someone who is mildly pro-Israel. Not to mention that it has been at peace with Egypt and Jordan since the 1980's, of course.

[Mingle]

Greece. We are surrounded by the worst countries ever. Except Italy ofc. We have fucking Turks and the Balkans, one of the most unstable places on Earth historically. In this desert, in this chaos, we are the only oasis. We're the only country in the region that is and has been Western, despite being geographically East.

If it weren't for your geographical location being so close to the Middle East (especially Egypt and Mesopotamia/Levant), then you wouldn't have been the first European country to develop a civilization. Nowadays though, Greece being so close to Turkey doesn't have similar positives. Even if bordering the Middle East may not have been a bad thing historically, having Turkey as a neighbor today doesn't seem good since Turkey and Greece don't have the best relations. So its easy to say bordering the Middle East sucks today, but it helped Greece achieve glory in ancient times (which contributes to its good reputation today). Even though it's not that good today to be so close to the ME, it overall wasn't a bad thing.

But I don't get the animosity towards the Balkans. I can understand why there may be discontent towards Albos and North Macedonians, but Bulgarians and the rest of the neighborhood (though they don't share a direct border with you) aren't really anything bad. They're poorer countries, but a large part of that has to do with them being on the wrong side of the Cold War.

[Tooting Carmen]

But I don't get the animosity towards the Balkans. I can understand why there may be discontent towards Albos and North Macedonians, but Bulgarians and the rest of the neighborhood (though they don't share a direct border with you) aren't really anything bad. They're poorer countries, but a large part of that has to do with them being on the wrong side of the Cold War.

Remember the 1990s? Many Balkan countries have been a cauldron of hatred and instability.

[Universe]

Why wrong?

It said it was wrong, because what you said simply wasn't true. You literally stated "Russia is highly slavic/russian only in western parts". Perceantage of ethnic Russian population is barely (if at all) lower in Eastern parts than in Western parts of the country. Russians are majority all over the federation with few exceptions here and there. The western parts has its native ethnic groups too, so the west isn't really different than the east in that respect. I don't understand why it's hard to believe.



Anyhow I do disagree with that, simply because any data like this (that the results might influence on the "patriotism" or "order" of the nation) from a government like Russia (Soviet or post-Soviet) is bullshit to me.
Actual data vs assumptions. Okay... Vladivostok is Russian city few kilometres from Chinese and North Korean border. It's stated to be over 95% Russian/Ukrainian and this is what it looks like:
Full of Russian people, even the few orientals you see here and there are foreign tourists. Vladivostok is famous for receiving east asian tourists because it is seen as a way to visit Europe by these orientals without actually visiting Europe. Look major Siberian cities up in Google/Youtube and see what people look like there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=bB6DGkrIVZk&feature=emb_title



Sure, there are ethinic Russians even in Mongolian and Kazakh cities...
We're talking about Russia, not Kazakhstan and Mongolia


I do know/recognise that there are ethinic Russians in the Eastern part of "Russia"...
Why the quotation marks? That part of the country is no less Russian than the west.


but I don't believe they are "more than 80%" for any part there
Then don't believe it. Anyone can look it up on wikipedia and find out the truth.


(or maybe they can really be - because of the cities, but if we take the countryside alone the majority still are the Asians - and in case of a conflict, nomads could do much better in a vast land that they can live anywhere, than people from cities that don't have the skills to go on the wild life (I'm focusing on the thread here) -
This is what ethnic map of Russia looks like lel:
The amount of natives in the east is low, much of Siberia has literally no one living in it at all. As you see along the border where people mostly live, people are mostly Russians.
https://i.imgur.com/PHNvDTs.jpg




that STILL wouldn't make what I said wrong
Yes, it does. Next time when you try to be an expert on a foreign country at least try to study the available data. Those central asian nomad groups have VERY LITTLE populations. Tuvan people are one of those groups, and their number is not more than 300,000. Yakuts/Sakha people are another "major" Siberian ethnic group, their number don't exceed 500,000 and they don't even live on the border. Knowing you, you will probably say these are fake numbers and there are millions of these people not only some hundred thousands because Russian data is fake, it seems pointless to debate you. Biggest non-Russian ethnic groups are Tatars, Bashkirs, north caucasians etc, all living in Western part of the country, not in Siberia.

[Mingle]

Remember the 1990s? Many Balkan countries have been a cauldron of hatred and instability.

It didn't really affect Greece though. And nobody thinks the Balkans are having a war anymore, that was the 90s. For example, when people think of Croatia, they think of it's Adriatic beaches, not events from the 90s.

[Zeno]

If it weren't for your geographical location being so close to the Middle East (especially Egypt and Mesopotamia/Levant), then you wouldn't have been the first European country to develop a civilization. Nowadays though, Greece being so close to Turkey doesn't have similar positives. Even if bordering the Middle East may not have been a bad thing historically, having Turkey as a neighbor today doesn't seem good since Turkey and Greece don't have the best relations. So its easy to say bordering the Middle East sucks today, but it helped Greece achieve glory in ancient times (which contributes to its good reputation today). Even though it's not that good today to be so close to the ME, it overall wasn't a bad thing.

But I don't get the animosity towards the Balkans. I can understand why there may be discontent towards Albos and North Macedonians, but Bulgarians and the rest of the neighborhood (though they don't share a direct border with you) aren't really anything bad. They're poorer countries, but a large part of that has to do with them being on the wrong side of the Cold War.

Greece largely develop its own civilisation. Apart from the 11 out of 32 letters in the Greek alphabet and the earliest, somehow similar to Egyptian, sculpting, the Middle East had no effect in Greek civilisation. The Middle East has nothing to do with it. And historically, it's been bad for Greeks. You remember Persians? And then the Turks for the last 1,000 years?
And, I'm not hostile to all Balkaners. I'm just pinpointing the fact that compared to us, the Balkans were always unstable both politically and economically. In fact, Greece is the only country in Eastern Europe geographically to have reached the Western levels of wealth and prosperity since the early 20th century, reaching that standard in an early stage in the 19th century.

[Lioncourt]

Remember the 1990s? Many Balkan countries have been a cauldron of hatred and instability.

Romania and Bulgaria were unstable because of communist legacy, in 1980s economy was basically collapsing, and it was artificially kept alive. That's why the system fell. 1990s here was the aftermath, my family was very poor back then, there were days when my parents didn't eat in order for me and my brother to have food.

But things are very different now. Many westerners remember Balkans from more than 20 years. A person with my profession in Bulgaria has the same life quality as their colleagues in Western Europe. Unfortunately, this isn't true for most professions, but things are getting better (despite all the corruption). I doubt Romania and Bulgaria would have been worse than Greece today, if we had their luck not to be occupied by USSR. But even countries in the Eastern Bloc like Czechia and Poland today are pretty similar in standart to Portugal and Greece.

[Zeno]

Romania and Bulgaria were unstable because of communist legacy, in 1980s economy was basically collapsing, and it was artificially kept alive. That's why the system fell. 1990s here was the aftermath, my family was very poor back then, there were days when my parents didn't eat in order for me and my brother to have food.

But things are very different now. Many westerners remember Balkans from more than 20 years. A person with my profession in Bulgaria has the same life quality as their colleagues in Western Europe. Unfortunately, this isn't true for most professions, but things are getting better (despite all the corruption). I doubt Romania and Bulgaria would have been worse than Greece today, if we had their luck not to be occupied by USSR. But even countries in the Eastern Bloc like Czechia and Poland today are pretty similar in standart to Portugal and Greece.

Czech Republic and Poland reached our living standards after we collapsed economically. Before the crisis, Greek income per capita was multiple times bigger than the Czech or Polish one.

[Mingle]

Greece largely develop its own civilisation. Apart from the 11 out of 32 letters in the Greek alphabet and the earliest, somehow similar to Egyptian, sculpting, the Middle East had no effect in Greek civilisation. The Middle East has nothing to do with it. And historically, it's been bad for Greeks. You remember Persians? And then the Turks for the last 1,000 years?
And, I'm not hostile to all Balkaners. I'm just pinpointing the fact that compared to us, the Balkans were always unstable both politically and economically. In fact, Greece is the only country in Eastern Europe geographically to have reached the Western levels of wealth and prosperity since the early 20th century, reaching that standard in an early stage in the 19th century.

Greece got the concept of writing from the Middle East. It added some extra letters later to fit it's phonology, but it was illiterate before influence from the Middle East. Not only did it get the alphabet from the Middle but numbers as well. The concept of agriculture (from domesticating wheat), farming (domestication of cattle), wine making, and the calculation of time (sexagesimal system) came from the Middle East as well. Greece in short became a civilization because of Middle Eastern influence.

You had the Persians and Turks to fight with in the Middle Ages? Everyone in history has fought with their neighbors constantly in historic times. Don't see why Greece is especially unfortunate here.

Greece is pretty much the only country in Eastern Europe to have avoided communism (partly due to their geographical distance to Russia). If Greece ended up becoming communist in the mid-20th century like the rest of Eastern Europe, then Greece would have been economically no different to it's Balkan neighbors.

[Arsen_]

I think top of the list should be armenia. Small and landlocked. West side is turkey, border is closed and heavily guarded by turkey. East side is azerbaijan, clash zone; there's an ongoing low-density war. South iran, which is another muslim country and also population around the border mostly turkic. Georgia in the north is a christian country but has bitter relations with russia, which is father of armenia, so that way is also not reliable. Result= one of the poorest countries in the world, very low life standards.

I wonder who injected that horseshit about "poorest" Armenia into your scull?? Baku regime propacondoms? :lol:

Armenia is doing pretty well! Despite of all the disasters of recent decades - catastrophic earthquake, war with oil rich and several times bigger in population and territory country (and Armenians won the war!), despite the collapse of all economic ties as a result of the collapse of Soviet Union, well, despite the actual blockade and the lack of sea coasts and railways with the outside world and so on and so forth.

Just look at Wealth per adult and Average Salary according to Global Wealth Report and Eurostat and Rosstat and compare with neighboring countries.

https://b.radikal.ru/b12/2007/2a/d5f7a936ac51.jpg

https://d.radikal.ru/d17/2007/e7/f5cab9ea96f9.jpg

[FinalFlash]

I wonder who injected that horseshit about "poorest" Armenia into your scull?? Baku regime propacondoms? :lol:

Armenia is doing pretty well! Despite of all the disasters of recent decades - catastrophic earthquake, war with oil rich and several times bigger in population and territory country (and Armenians won the war!), despite the collapse of all economic ties as a result of the collapse of Soviet Union, well, despite the actual blockade and the lack of sea coasts and railways with the outside world and so on and so forth.

Just look at Wealth per adult and Average Salary according to Global Wealth Report and Eurostat and Rosstat and compare with neighboring countries.

https://b.radikal.ru/b12/2007/2a/d5f7a936ac51.jpg

https://d.radikal.ru/d17/2007/e7/f5cab9ea96f9.jpg

That civil war in Ukraine really set them back.

[alnortedelsur]

Mexico: so close to US, but so far from god :lol: