The Montenegrins - South Slavic people of Montenegro, Balkans

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Flag_of_Montenegro.svg/22px-Flag_of_Montenegro.svg.png

Slavs were present in the region since the 7th century. Montenegro got its name during the rule of the Crnojević which was one of the first Montenegrin royal houses. Since the violent Christmas Uprising (1919), which saw fighting between the pro-Petrovic guerillas and the Karadjordjevic troops, there was a significant opposition to unification with Serbia although majority of Montenegrin people were pro unification. Following the end of the World War II the population was shifted overwhelmingly in favour of separate Montenegrin ethnicity (91%) due to Montenegrin self awareness. Following the collapse of Communism in Yugoslavia however, some Montenegrins began to self-identify as Serbs again (31,99%), while the largest proportion of citizens of Montenegro still preserved their Montenegrin self-identification (43,16%)- Christians and Muslims all together. This has deepened further since the movement for full Montenegrin independence from the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia began to gain ground in 1991, and ultimately narrowly succeeded in the referendum of May 2006 (having been rejected in 1992). The Montenegro Serbs do not consider themselves separate from the Montenegrin nation but instead believe that all genuine slavic Montenegrins are Serbs by ethnicity, and that Montenegrin nation is one fraction of "Serbdom".

In the 2011 census, around 280,000 or 44,98% of the population of Montenegro identified themselves as ethnic Montenegrins, while around 180,000 or 28,73% identified themselves as Serbs. The number of "Montenegrins", "Serbs" and "Bosniaks" fluctuates wildly from census to census, not due to real changes in the populace, but due to changes in how people experience their identity. According to the 2002 census, there are around 70,000 ethnic Montenegrins in Serbia, accounting for 0.92% of the Republic's population. The number of Montenegrin citizens in Serbia runs to several hundreds of thousands (nearly 300,000 est.), but most of them identify as Serbs. In addition, a significant number of Serbs in Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina are of Montenegrin ancestry, but exact numbers are difficult to assess – the inhabitants of Montenegro contributed greatly to the repopulation of a depopulated Serbia after two rebellions against the Ottoman Empire in the early 19th century, with a half of the population of Sumadija and the surroundings being populated by people originally from Montenegro, and several prominent individuals of the Serbian 19th & early 20th century intelligentsia and entrepreneurs being descendents of people originally from Montenegro.

On 19 October 2007, a new Constitution was adopted that proclaimed the Montenegrin language official, and attributed Montenegrin statehood and sovereignty to all citizens of Montenegro

http://i.imagehost.org/t/0680/mont1o.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0680/mont1o) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0392/mont2m.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0392/mont2m) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0294/mont3.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0294/mont3) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0196/mont4.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0196/mont4) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0495/mont5.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0495/mont5) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0406/mont6.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0406/mont6) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0300/mont7.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0300/mont7) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0202/mont8.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0202/mont8) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0594/mont9.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0594/mont9) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0002/mont10.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0002/mont10) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0301/mont11.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0301/mont11) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0699/mont12.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0699/mont12) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0114/mont13.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0114/mont13) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0514/mont14.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0514/mont14)

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http://g.imagehost.org/t/0411/mont15.jpg (http://g.imagehost.org/view/0411/mont15) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0305/Mont16.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0305/Mont16) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0116/mont17.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0116/mont17) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0592/mont1.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0592/mont1) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0990/mont2.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0990/mont2) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0381/mont3.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0381/mont3) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0280/mont4.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0280/mont4) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0088/mont5.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0088/mont5) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0990/mont6.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0990/mont6) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0891/mont7.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0891/mont7) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0294/mont8.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0294/mont8) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0194/mont9.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0194/mont9) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0489/mont10.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0489/mont10)

[Artek]

To be honest, another self-appointed country without strong identity: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Montenegroetno03.png
"Daddy, i've got an idea - let's make a new country".
Now, tick me off if you want to ;]

[safinator]

http://i.imagehost.org/0594/mont9.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HtdlGkwqfuk/TwhrLIlZFEI/AAAAAAAAAp8/UlJdmDhRAco/s1600/me+gugusta.jpg

[Vukodav]

To be honest, another self-appointed country without strong identity: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Montenegroetno03.png
"Daddy, i've got an idea - let's make a new country".
Now, tick me off if you want to ;]
you dont know anything about our history, so please dont make a comment :wink

[Artek]

It was a troll, man :).

[dralos]

alboz in denial

[Viljuska]

Following the end of the World War II the population was shifted overwhelmingly in favour of separate Montenegrin ethnicity (91%) due to Montenegrin self awareness.
This is not true.
After WW2 the worst and most extensive "cleansing" of people loyal to the Kingdom of Yugoslavia took place in Montenegro.
Montenegrin communists were the worst, especially to their own kind.. true fanatics.

[Rastko]

I have in-born hate for Montenegrins but despite that they are very interesting people.

+speech and looks of our Southerners is probably more similar to you than let say people from Zagorje.
And don't forget Bokelj's (Croats from Montenegro).

[Mordid]

Textbook East Alpinid/Balto-Alpinoid:
http://i.imagehost.org/0294/mont3.jpg

[Aivap]

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6726/compilationfootballteam.jpg

[Dilberth]

Sport teams are hardly representative for any nation.

[Aivap]

Sport teams are hardly representative for any nation.

why?

[Dilberth]

why?

Sportsmen are more specialized people, so certain types get omitted. Besides,there are many foreigners.

[Rastko]

Yes,athletes and models are not representative.
Post regular (group) photos from parties and public meetings.

[Minesweeper]

"Daddy, i've got an idea - let's make a new NATION".
Now, tick me off if you want to ;]

Fixed!

Now this makes sense.

[Aivap]

Yes,athletes and models are not representative.
Post regular (group) photos from parties and public meetings.

photos from parties and public meetings are even less reliable because it's impossible to know names, surnames and ancestry of everyone.
Instead about persons who compose a National team or a parliament council we can easily get informations about their biographies.

[mihaitzateo]

This is amazing a lot of montenegrins posted here,if you look more carefull,have a reddish nuance at their hair.
Think that is because of thracian ancestry +celtic ancestry.
I would be curious how many of montenegrins have red hair gene.

[Rastko]

This is amazing a lot of montenegrins posted here,if you look more carefull,have a reddish nuance at their hair.
Think that is because of thracian ancestry +celtic ancestry.
I would be curious how many of montenegrins have red hair gene.

From my personal experience,none to zero.

[mihaitzateo]

From my personal experience,none to zero.

I think you should look more careffully:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII12.htm
"The Montenegrins are prevailingly dark brown in head hair color; in Old Montenegro some 45 per cent of adult males belong to this class, while 20 per cent are medium brown, and 26 per cent auburn, or brown with a perceptible reddish tinge. The tribesmen of Brda and the northern border are somewhat darker, and show less rufosity. The beards are much lighter than the head hair; among Old Montenegrins 43 per cent are reddish brown, and 8 per cent contain a pure red element; only 17 per cent are dark brown. In Brda golden-brown beards are extremely common, as frequent as 39 per cent; in the northern border tribes, 24 per cent. The rufosity of the Montenegrins, and their tendency to golden blondism, is not only extreme, but is particularly unusual for this part of Europe."

[Rastko]

I think you should look more careffully:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII12.htm
"The Montenegrins are prevailingly dark brown in head hair color; in Old Montenegro some 45 per cent of adult males belong to this class, while 20 per cent are medium brown, and 26 per cent auburn, or brown with a perceptible reddish tinge. The tribesmen of Brda and the northern border are somewhat darker, and show less rufosity. The beards are much lighter than the head hair; among Old Montenegrins 43 per cent are reddish brown, and 8 per cent contain a pure red element; only 17 per cent are dark brown. In Brda golden-brown beards are extremely common, as frequent as 39 per cent; in the northern border tribes, 24 per cent. The rufosity of the Montenegrins, and their tendency to golden blondism, is not only extreme, but is particularly unusual for this part of Europe."

Reddish brown =/= Red.
In fact sun alters it preety much and if your hair is not caressed all the time it loses it's reddish component.I know it because of my mother.

[dralos]

montenegrins from what i've seen don't look like other yugoz,they look more balkanic and albanian,offcourse you have the slavic looking montenegrins but they aren't that many.and i think most people would agree about this,if they've been in montenegro

[Vukodav]

I think you should look more careffully:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII12.htm
"The Montenegrins are prevailingly dark brown in head hair color; in Old Montenegro some 45 per cent of adult males belong to this class, while 20 per cent are medium brown, and 26 per cent auburn, or brown with a perceptible reddish tinge. The tribesmen of Brda and the northern border are somewhat darker, and show less rufosity. The beards are much lighter than the head hair; among Old Montenegrins 43 per cent are reddish brown, and 8 per cent contain a pure red element; only 17 per cent are dark brown. In Brda golden-brown beards are extremely common, as frequent as 39 per cent; in the northern border tribes, 24 per cent. The rufosity of the Montenegrins, and their tendency to golden blondism, is not only extreme, but is particularly unusual for this part of Europe."

Actualy, based on my personal expirience people in Old Montenegro area are bit darker than people from Brda.

[brunette]

They look mostly Pontid Alpine and Atlanto stock.

[Viljuska]

I think you should look more careffully:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII12.htm
"The Montenegrins are prevailingly dark brown in head hair color; in Old Montenegro some 45 per cent of adult males belong to this class, while 20 per cent are medium brown, and 26 per cent auburn, or brown with a perceptible reddish tinge. The tribesmen of Brda and the northern border are somewhat darker, and show less rufosity. The beards are much lighter than the head hair; among Old Montenegrins 43 per cent are reddish brown, and 8 per cent contain a pure red element; only 17 per cent are dark brown. In Brda golden-brown beards are extremely common, as frequent as 39 per cent; in the northern border tribes, 24 per cent. The rufosity of the Montenegrins, and their tendency to golden blondism, is not only extreme, but is particularly unusual for this part of Europe."
My mother is from one of the Brda tribes. We always used to say that some of them look "Scottish", especially her brother. He has pure red element in beard, but the head-hair is much darker and brown (with no visible red). Also the skin is very fair and with a little freckles.
On my fathers side nobody has this traits, he's family are all from a different part of present day Montenegro which is called Stara Hercegovina.

[Viljuska]

This is amazing a lot of montenegrins posted here,if you look more carefull,have a reddish nuance at their hair.
Think that is because of thracian ancestry +celtic ancestry.
I would be curious how many of montenegrins have red hair gene.
I have little reddish in brown beard, but nothing close to my uncle. It's visible when light is strong and it is just som parts :)

[Vukodav]

^I have a red/yellow facial hairs. But I cant grow full beard lol

[Viljuska]

Actualy, based on my personal expirience people in Old Montenegro area are bit darker than people from Brda.
Yes, I have the same impression.
Things may have changed since Coon was there, it was a long time ago he wrote that.

For those who don't know the geography of MN, I found this map.

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/Montenegro/map.jpg

[Ushtari]

Yes, I have the same impression.
Things may have changed since Coon was there, it was a long time ago he wrote that.

For those who don't know the geography of MN, I found this map.

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/Montenegro/map.jpg
Kuci, piperi and vasojevici = Albanian

[Viljuska]

Kuci, piperi and vasojevici = Albanian
You should go there and explain this to them ;)

[Ushtari]

You should go there and explain this to them ;)
they told it themselves


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4089/montenegrinf.jpg


:coffee:

[Viljuska]

they told it themselves
:coffee:
I'm sure there could be a few families with albanian descent, but you can not claim those tribes to be albanian. That would be like saying that people like Karađorđe Petrović are "albos in denial" :D

[Ushtari]

I'm sure there could be a few families with albanian descent, but you can not claim those tribes to be albanian. That would be like saying that people like Karađorđe Petrović are "albos in denial" :D
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4930/piperi.jpg


"The Montenegrins, who are the tallest people in Europe, live on a barren limestone mountain upland, where they, for centuries, succeeded in maintainingnheir Christianity and their freedom while surrounded by the Turks. They, like the northern Albanians, preserve their old exogamous clan organization, and their clan loyalties and feuds. They are linguistically Serbs, but there can be no question that they are to a large extent Slavicized Albanians; the cultural continuity between the two peoples is striking, the only real differences being those of language and religion."
http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/12-12.htm



"In Kosovo, especially in its eastern part, most Albanians were gradually assimilated into the Eastern Orthodox faith by numerous methods, including the baptism of infants with Serbian names and the conducting of all religious ceremonies such as marriages in the Serbian language. In Montenegro entire tribes such as the Kuc, Bjellopavliq, Palabardha, Piprraj and Vasovic were assimilated; those who resisted assimilation retreated into the hills of what is now northern Albania"
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/v/vickers-serb.html?_r=1

[Viljuska]

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4930/piperi.jpg

There are no historical records that would support this stories.
If there were oral traditions the Serb tribes would not have made them secret.
These people are not ashamed of their ancestry.

I don't care what Coon wrote about it, obviously he was misinformed (guess by whom? :rolleyes:)
Stay on topic or fuck off.

[Ushtari]

There are no historical records that would support this stories.
If there were oral traditions the Serb tribes would not have made them secret.
These people are not ashamed of their ancestry.

I don't care what Coon wrote about it, obviously he was misinformed (guess by whom? :rolleyes:)
Stay on topic or fuck off.


Of these four large tribes, of common origin, Piperi and Vasojevich are now Serbophone and Orthodox. Piperi threw in its lot with Montenegro in 1790, but whether or not it was then Serbophone I have failed to learn. Half of Vasojevich was given to Montenegro after the Treaty of Berlin, the other portion still remains under Turkish rule.
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/durham/albania/albania.html

[Viljuska]

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/durham/albania/albania.htmlYou missed this part of the text..


Vasojevich considers itself wholly Serb, and is bitter foe to the Albanophone tribes on its borders. Krasnich is Albanophone and fanatically Moslem; Hoti is Albanophone and Roman Catholic.

What turned two tribes into Serbs and two into Albanians, and which was their original tongue, I cannot say; but probably they were of mixed Serbo-Illyrian blood, and their language was influenced by the Church to which either chose to adhere. It is said that the Albanophone Krasnichi were Catholic before turning Turk.

Pre-Slavic population from Bosnia or Herzegovina is not "albanian" in any way.
Also, albanians are not the only descendants of Illyrian tribes, you should know this.
Did you know that the Petrovic Njegoš family (later Serb rulers of the Montenegrin dynasty) also moved from Bosnia during this same period? Would you also question their ancestry and claim they were not Serbs?

Thanks for the link though, I didn't read Edith Durham before seems interesting.

[Hurrem sultana]

Pre-Slavic population from Bosnia or Herzegovina is not "albanian" in any way.


true,even today they exist but they are serbs now,they lived in mountains mostly


sorry ush :D

[Kanuni]

You missed this part of the text..



Pre-Slavic population from Bosnia or Herzegovina is not "albanian" in any way.
Also, albanians are not the only descendants of Illyrian tribes, you should know this.
Did you know that the Petrovic Njegoš family (later Serb rulers of the Montenegrin dynasty) also moved from Bosnia during this same period? Would you also question their ancestry and claim they were not Serbs?

Thanks for the link though, I didn't read Edith Durham before seems interesting.

Albanians are the most Illyrian you should know that also both linguistically and genetically.

I am skeptical about I2a+EV13 first I2a highest diversity is found in Ukraine/Romania and most probably came with Slavic migrations second EV13 diversity is quite low in Balkan countries except for Greece,percentages are irrelevant since Macedonian Gypsies have the highest percentages of EV13 after Kosovars and Peloponessian Greeks the only firmly(in majority i'll say) Illyrian haplogroups IMO are J2b2 and R1b(the subclade found at Albanians) latter coming the EV13.

[Rastko]

No,you don't get it.
You are trying to convince that Illyrians=Albanians which is not true.
Illyricum is a huge land on the east Adriatic with numerous tribes.
And they were mostly romanised.

[Kanuni]

No,you don't get it.
You are trying to convince that Illyrians=Albanians which is not true.
Illyricum is a huge land on the east Adriatic with numerous tribes.
And they were mostly romanised.

More like Illyrians>Albanians.

Like it or not that is the true boy.

Neither of Balkan Slavs don't cluster genetically so close to Kosovars(who are the best examples of Illyrians) you are not as Illyrian as you think.

[Rastko]

More like Illyrians>Albanians.

Like it or not that is the true boy.

Neither of Balkan Slavs don't cluster genetically so close to Kosovars(who are the best examples of Illyrians) you are not as Illyrian as you think.

I like being Illyr more on the romantic side than reality.
Enjoy.

[Viljuska]

Albanians are the most Illyrian you should know that also both linguistically and genetically.

I am skeptical about I2a+EV13 first I2a highest diversity is found in Ukraine/Romania and most probably came with Slavic migrations second EV13 diversity is quite low in Balkan countries except for Greece,percentages are irrelevant since Macedonian Gypsies have the highest percentages of EV13 after Kosovars and Peloponessian Greeks the only firmly(in majority i'll say) Illyrian haplogroups IMO are J2b2 and R1b(the subclade found at Albanians) latter coming the EV13.

You can not connect a specific haplogroup to Illyrians.
Also, you can not claim that romanised Illyrians had all same haplogroup, because we don't know that.
We don't even have evidence for which haplogroups could be considered to be "Illyrian". I don't care what you think about I2a, this is not relevant. But it will be intresting to see what researchers will find out about this in the future.

[Kanuni]

I like being Illyr more on the romantic side than reality.
Enjoy.

If someone has preserved the language automatically means that they have better preserved the genes too that is the case with Albanians especially those from Kosovo.



You can not connect a specific haplogroup to Illyrians.
Also, you can not claim that romanised Illyrians had all same haplogroup, because we don't know that.
We don't even have evidence for which haplogroups could be considered to be "Illyrian". I don't care what you think about I2a, this is not relevant. But it will be intresting to see what researchers will find out about this in the future.

I didn't claim they had the same haplogroup it is more likely those two haplogroups to be more dominant in ancient times since if we study Illyrians we should firstly start with Albanians then the rest.

EV13 definitely doesn't fit the bill good especially if Macedonian Gypsies and Carpathian Ukrainians can have such a high percentage almost as Kosovar Albanians it is dubious to me but still it was as near as present as those haplogroups i mentioned but probably not as dominant as today.

[Panopticon]

Pre-Slavic population from Bosnia or Herzegovina is not "albanian" in any way.

We already know that there was an Albanian presence in Bosnia and Herzegovina because of old toponyms there, like Burmaz and Ligatina. There's also documents which note our presence around that area, there was a strong Albanian presence in the Dalmatian highlands, for example. Some tribes descend from groups of Albanians that came from Herzegovina, according to their own oral traditions that is.

Other than that, there are some supposed linguistic influences that couldn't have come through a Vlach intermediary, words like 'zarica' or 'zara' which although taken from Vlach, is a loanword from Albanian. Words like 'kalce' and 'ganga' makes me think that. It would have been impossible without some presence there.

You might be thinking of the Vlach presence, but there's no mutual exclusiveness in both Albanian and Vlach having been present.

[Flintlocke]

No,you don't get it.
You are trying to convince that Illyrians=Albanians which is not true.
Illyricum is a huge land on the east Adriatic with numerous tribes.
And they were mostly romanised.

Most of the action and history come from the south. The Illyrian kingdom was roughly in the area of Today's Albania. The Dardanians were in today's Kosovo more or less, but were a separate state although Dardanian families created dynasties that ruled the kingdom of Illyria. The other group was the Paeonians who lived roughly in today's Monkeydonia and they were most probably Illyrians. There also were the Thracians in the east but they had a different culture.

The group you talk about were the Liburnians and the Dalmatians mostly. There's not much history about them. Probably they were Illyrians but Celticized to a degree.

[Rastko]

The group you talk about were the Liburnians and the Dalmatians mostly. There's not much history about them. Probably they were Illyrians but Celticized to a degree.

Thank you very much! Different tribe,different names.
And I would say romanised later.

[Hurrem sultana]

We already know that there was an Albanian presence in Bosnia and Herzegovina because of old toponyms there, like Burmaz and Ligatina. There's also documents which note our presence around that area, there was a strong Albanian presence in the Dalmatian highlands, for example. Some tribes descend from groups of Albanians that came from Herzegovina, according to their own oral traditions that is.

Other than that, there are some supposed linguistic influences that couldn't have come through a Vlach intermediary, words like 'zarica' or 'zara' which although taken from Vlach, is a loanword from Albanian. Words like 'kalce' and 'ganga' makes me think that. It would have been impossible without some presence there.

You might be thinking of the Vlach presence, but there's no mutual exclusiveness in both Albanian and Vlach having been present.


explain what is zarica,ganga,kalce?

"we already know!"-how?!?

[Panopticon]

explain what is zarica,ganga,kalce?

"we already know!"-how?!?

They are words pertaining to certain Bosnian and Herzegovinan dialects. Zarica is a type of cheese, ganga is a type of song performed by Herzegovinans, especially Croats, Kalce=horse.

I explained how "we" know that in the last post already.

[Hurrem sultana]

They are words pertaining to certain Bosnian and Herzegovinan dialects. Zarica is a type of cheese, ganga is a type of song performed by Herzegovinans, especially Croats, Kalce=horse.

I explained how "we" know that in the last post already.

or,that must mean albanians =herzegovinians in denial:rolleyes2:


similar or same words are not proof for anything,in that case we are also turks,americans,frenchs etc

[Panopticon]

or,that must mean albanians =herzegovinians in denial:rolleyes2:


similar osame words are not proof for anything,in that case we are also turks,americans,frenchs etc

That would be a very illogical conclusion.

It shows a presence and an influence. Albanians, never had an empire or anything similar unlike Turks, Americans and the French, so they couldn't influence other peoples in the same ways. However, if there was a presence of Albanians and contact between them and Slavs, these loans and toponyms would show up, and they do. Loanwords show contact, therefore presence.

If you didn't understand that to begin with, then maybe we shouldn't have this debate? There has to be certain rules and a certain knowledge on both sides.

[Hurrem sultana]

That would be a very illogical conclusion.


No it would not.What makes you think people in same areas could not develop or take from each other/learn from each other similar songs,or same words?!?

go teach that albanian bs somewhere else

[Panopticon]

No it would not.What makes you think people in same areas could not develop or take from each other/learn from each other similar songs,or same words?!?

It is a very illogical conclusion to make based on a few loans which come from the opposite direction, yes. I never said anyone were Albanians, just that there was an Albanian presence and influence, which is a fair assesment based on what we know already.


go teach that albanian bs somewhere else

Relax, and try to understand what the people you are arguing with are saying.

[Hurrem sultana]

There have been bosniaks in Albania and Kosovo too.Some even exist today,and are not assimilated.If i cared enough i am sure i could find some "remains" but of course it would be pure BS,as it most probably would have nothing to do with them

[dralos]

There have been bosniaks in Albania and Kosovo too.Some even exist today,and are not assimilated.If i cared enough i am sure i could find some "remains" but of course it would be pure BS,as it most probably would have nothing to do with them
it's known that eastern herzgovinians share many things with alboz

[Hurrem sultana]

As horten says

That would be a very illogical conclusion. :D

[Panopticon]

There have been bosniaks in Albania and Kosovo too.Some even exist today,and are not assimilated.If i cared enough i am sure i could find some "remains" but of course it would be pure BS,as it most probably would have nothing to do with them

That has nothing to do with the old Medieval Albanian presence in the aforementioned areas. The few Bosniaks in Kosova are simply migrants, and are of little historical interest, not to mention that they're not some old element in either country which you are insinuating.

[Panopticon]

As horten says

That would be a very illogical conclusion. :D

It's not illogical, seeing as it's true, as I have already shown, although that has little to do with eastern Herzegovinians only but Herzegovina as a whole. Neither is it more of a conclusion than it is a statement.

[Lena]

No,you don't get it.
You are trying to convince that Illyrians=Albanians which is not true.
Illyricum is a huge land on the east Adriatic with numerous tribes.
And they were mostly romanised.

You're right, Regent. I find it absolutely hilarious how specific group of our members simply can't grasp basic historical facts.

[Kanuni]

You're right, Regent. I find it absolutely hilarious how specific group of our members simply can't grasp basic historical facts.

https://static.flashback.org/img/smilies2/whoco5.gif

Tell us i want to believe in something because it suits me to believe that,they were for sure related tribes because they spoke one language.I am off with you.

[Viljuska]

You albo guys are clutching at straws.
When you say that Vasojevići tribe has albanian ancestors you should present evidence, and not some fuzzy theory.

Seriously, cut the crap.
Lets get back on topic now.

[Viljuska]

Another map (more details and tribes but in Cyrillic).
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5010/plemenaucg.jpg

[Ushtari]

You missed this part of the text..



Pre-Slavic population from Bosnia or Herzegovina is not "albanian" in any way.
Also, albanians are not the only descendants of Illyrian tribes, you should know this.
Did you know that the Petrovic Njegoš family (later Serb rulers of the Montenegrin dynasty) also moved from Bosnia during this same period? Would you also question their ancestry and claim they were not Serbs?

Thanks for the link though, I didn't read Edith Durham before seems interesting.
Illyrian = Albanian - the author herself claim this

I have provided 4 sources confirming my statements, i think what im saying is a bit more valid than your words.

[Ushtari]

You albo guys are clutching at straws.
When you say that Vasojevići tribe has albanian ancestors you should present evidence, and not some fuzzy theory.

Seriously, cut the crap.
Lets get back on topic now.
Its not us, but impartial Scholars.

[Viljuska]

Gusle is an very old instrument played all over the Serb lands. Its songs were basic and often the only way to hand down traditions and memory of Serb people during the rule of foreigners. People gathered around gusle players and listened epic songs about Serb heroes and suffering of Serb nation.


http://kasetomanija.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/bbdjukic-crnogorci-prednja.jpg

lgj-TjaM1Vk

[Vukodav]

@Viljuska brother, dont bother with our albo friends. everything on Balkans is albanian acording to them...

[Kanuni]

You albo guys are clutching at straws.
When you say that Vasojevići tribe has albanian ancestors you should present evidence, and not some fuzzy theory.

Seriously, cut the crap.
Lets get back on topic now.

No one is claiming Vasojevici except for some specific users so you can fuck off together with that clan and Coon's work both of Albanians and others are simply crap and bullshit and they are not worthy for quote either.

It takes a simple look to the general crowd and the genetic datas to realize this.

[Dilberth]

photos from parties and public meetings are even less reliable because it's impossible to know names, surnames and ancestry of everyone.
Instead about persons who compose a National team or a parliament council we can easily get informations about their biographies.

I explained to you just one reason why sport teams are not representative(they are specialised people),there are many other reasons besides that.

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[dralos]

they look very albanian,just compare thel to the albanians and kosovalbanians with the picz
and you see it
then compare them with the serbs,croats and see how close they look lol

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[Rastko]

Well,how we can know difference between real Montenegrins,Albanians,Muslims,Herzegovian Serbs,Croat on these pictures?

Montenegro is quite mixed place.

[safinator]

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[safinator]

Well,how we can know difference between real Montenegrins,Albanians,Muslims,Herzegovian Serbs,Croat on these pictures?

Montenegro is quite mixed place.

Podgorica:
Ethnicity in 2011 (municipality)

Ethnicity Number Percentage
Montenegrins 106,642 57.35%
Serbs 43,248 23.26%
Albanians 9,538 5.13%
Muslims 4,122 2.22%
Roma 3,988 2.14%
Bosniaks 3,687 1.98%
Croats 664 0.36%
Others 1,222 0.66%

Alboz for example don't even live in the city itself.

[Rastko]

Podgorica:
Ethnicity in 2011 (municipality)

Ethnicity Number Percentage
Montenegrins 106,642 57.35%
Serbs 43,248 23.26%
Albanians 9,538 5.13%
Muslims 4,122 2.22%
Roma 3,988 2.14%
Bosniaks 3,687 1.98%
Croats 664 0.36%
Others 1,222 0.66%

Alboz for example don't even live in the city itself.

Muslims massively tell they are Montenegrin.

[safinator]

Muslims massively tell they are Montenegrin.
By the way Muslim is a religion and doesn't affect phenotype.

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[Hess]

Montenegro National Soccer Team
http://world-cup-wallpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Montenegro-Soccer-Team.jpg

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[Dilberth]

Their dinarids look nothing like Visnjic,on the other hand they do look Albanian.

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[Rastko]

They look good I must admit.

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[Sorab]

From Andrijevica
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4254/37230110864048961423100.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/37230110864048961423100.jpg/)
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9868/30372822232344783411010.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/30372822232344783411010.jpg/)
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4385/28141060836732482157286.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/28141060836732482157286.jpg/)
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8422/18340314671168872662710.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/18340314671168872662710.jpg/)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9/38601631856806817168410.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/38601631856806817168410.jpg/)
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1104/67453116822691710895100.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/67453116822691710895100.jpg/)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8246/42322431809447346781597.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/42322431809447346781597.jpg/)
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3725/22859916468798611001510.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/22859916468798611001510.jpg/)
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6157/41721150589438516104101.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/41721150589438516104101.jpg/)
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4300/43061129325087924031251.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/43061129325087924031251.jpg/)
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1706/42561431480480190524510.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/42561431480480190524510.jpg/)

[Rastko]

Wow,Sorab, light ones look even more Albanian.

[Minesweeper]

My grandmother is Montenegrin from Pec, Northern Metohija. Vasojevic, of course. :)

[Sorab]

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5016/getimage2a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/684/getimage2a.jpg/)
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5761/getimage3g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/getimage3g.jpg/)
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3832/getimage4h.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/getimage4h.jpg/)
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4852/getimage6s.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/getimage6s.jpg/)
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6984/getimage5fo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/getimage5fo.jpg/)
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1792/getimage1fi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40/getimage1fi.jpg/)
http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/1707/getimage7u.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/getimage7u.jpg/)
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2463/16622018425042160501810.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/16622018425042160501810.jpg/)
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2005/16787714846399654891518.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/16787714846399654891518.jpg/)

[Sorab]

They dont make me funny because ive been to Montenegro many times .Im just making this topic more balanced because i know what sort of diversity is in Montenegro .Also im familiar with ethnic make-up of Montenegro and regional differences in looks .
You can see people like this even in coast of Adriatic
They are from Herceg Novi
nEOWroRtzaw

[Sorab]

How is this revelent for anything?People from Croatian North Coast(Kvarner) are ligher than most continenals,they cluster with Slovenes.
I agree north isnt always lighter as a rule .Herceg Novi is more southern then Podgorica .
Safinator posted people from Podgorica-many Shiptars and muslims Montenegrin Bosniaks there plus people with Italian-Venetian or Mletci background .

[safinator]

I agree north isnt always lighter as a rule .Herceg Novi is more southern then Podgorica .
Safinator posted people from Podgorica-many Shiptars and muslims Montenegrin Bosniaks there plus people with Italian-Venetian or Mletci background .
They all had Slavic surnames.

[Sorab]

They all had Slavic surnames.
I see...
You have been to those clubs and ask for guest list?

[Adrian]

Not all are Albanized Serbs .Good portion is .

Feel free to bring any neutral source which proves anything about that portion.

[safinator]

I see...
You have been to those clubs and ask for guest list?
You can see under the photos the names if you go to Facebook.

[safinator]

Anyway that's OT.
Let just put pics of Monteniggaz.

[The Exiled King]

Montenegrins are a great people!

[safinator]

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[safinator]

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[safinator]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/302121_258826907491389_101178486589566_762035_1724 131881_n.jpghttp://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/302121_258826910824722_101178486589566_762036_1321 86986_n.jpghttp://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/309020_258827320824681_101178486589566_762039_1785 474070_n.jpghttp://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/309020_258827324158014_101178486589566_762040_1951 027461_n.jpghttp://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/309020_258827337491346_101178486589566_762041_1817 386538_n.jpghttp://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/312269_258827584157988_101178486589566_762043_7474 25236_n.jpghttp://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/312269_258827594157987_101178486589566_762046_1784 811915_n.jpghttp://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/312269_258827600824653_101178486589566_762047_4946 5946_n.jpghttp://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/317216_258828117491268_101178486589566_762055_1589 75367_n.jpghttp://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/317216_258828120824601_101178486589566_762056_9705 80279_n.jpghttp://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/317216_258828127491267_101178486589566_762058_1702 416085_n.jpghttp://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/317216_258828134157933_101178486589566_762059_1884 300591_n.jpghttp://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/305732_258829040824509_101178486589566_762077_9757 3979_n.jpghttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/305732_258829047491175_1913782778_n.jpghttp://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/292088_258829454157801_101178486589566_762085_1802 895420_n.jpg

[dralos]

some of them look more albo then me LOL

[safinator]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308793_161852943895230_121505797929945_350614_5292 355_n.jpghttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/293558_161853033895221_121505797929945_350617_1250 3_n.jpghttp://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312668_161853160561875_121505797929945_350621_4434 690_n.jpghttp://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/307333_161853267228531_121505797929945_350625_3241 897_n.jpghttp://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/314593_161853417228516_121505797929945_350633_5701 982_n.jpghttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312023_161853577228500_121505797929945_350641_1422 346_n.jpghttp://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311943_161854480561743_121505797929945_350687_4381 765_n.jpghttp://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305033_161853633895161_121505797929945_350644_3014 273_n.jpghttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/310748_161853960561795_121505797929945_350662_2117 4_n.jpghttp://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311798_161854000561791_121505797929945_350664_3063 854_n.jpghttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318988_161854097228448_121505797929945_350669_3231 219_n.jpghttp://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/303983_161854390561752_121505797929945_350681_4835 185_n.jpghttp://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/320368_161854430561748_121505797929945_350683_3407 990_n.jpg

[safinator]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/253259_149811238432734_121505797929945_313625_7038 61_n.jpg
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[brunette]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Flag_of_Montenegro.svg/22px-Flag_of_Montenegro.svg.png

Slavs were present in the region since the 7th century. Montenegro got its name during the rule of the Crnojević which was one of the first Montenegrin royal houses. Since the violent Christmas Uprising (1919), which saw fighting between the pro-Petrovic guerillas and the Karadjordjevic troops, there was a significant opposition to unification with Serbia although majority of Montenegrin people were pro unification. Following the end of the World War II the population was shifted overwhelmingly in favour of separate Montenegrin ethnicity (91%) due to Montenegrin self awareness. Following the collapse of Communism in Yugoslavia however, some Montenegrins began to self-identify as Serbs again (31,99%), while the largest proportion of citizens of Montenegro still preserved their Montenegrin self-identification (43,16%)- Christians and Muslims all together. This has deepened further since the movement for full Montenegrin independence from the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia began to gain ground in 1991, and ultimately narrowly succeeded in the referendum of May 2006 (having been rejected in 1992). The Montenegro Serbs do not consider themselves separate from the Montenegrin nation but instead believe that all genuine slavic Montenegrins are Serbs by ethnicity, and that Montenegrin nation is one fraction of "Serbdom".

In the 2011 census, around 280,000 or 44,98% of the population of Montenegro identified themselves as ethnic Montenegrins, while around 180,000 or 28,73% identified themselves as Serbs. The number of "Montenegrins", "Serbs" and "Bosniaks" fluctuates wildly from census to census, not due to real changes in the populace, but due to changes in how people experience their identity. According to the 2002 census, there are around 70,000 ethnic Montenegrins in Serbia, accounting for 0.92% of the Republic's population. The number of Montenegrin citizens in Serbia runs to several hundreds of thousands (nearly 300,000 est.), but most of them identify as Serbs. In addition, a significant number of Serbs in Serbia and Bosnia-Herzegovina are of Montenegrin ancestry, but exact numbers are difficult to assess – the inhabitants of Montenegro contributed greatly to the repopulation of a depopulated Serbia after two rebellions against the Ottoman Empire in the early 19th century, with a half of the population of Sumadija and the surroundings being populated by people originally from Montenegro, and several prominent individuals of the Serbian 19th & early 20th century intelligentsia and entrepreneurs being descendents of people originally from Montenegro.

On 19 October 2007, a new Constitution was adopted that proclaimed the Montenegrin language official, and attributed Montenegrin statehood and sovereignty to all citizens of Montenegro

http://i.imagehost.org/t/0680/mont1o.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0680/mont1o) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0392/mont2m.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0392/mont2m) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0294/mont3.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0294/mont3) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0196/mont4.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0196/mont4) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0495/mont5.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0495/mont5) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0406/mont6.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0406/mont6) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0300/mont7.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0300/mont7) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0202/mont8.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0202/mont8) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0594/mont9.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0594/mont9) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0002/mont10.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0002/mont10) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0301/mont11.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0301/mont11) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0699/mont12.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0699/mont12) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0114/mont13.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0114/mont13) http://i.imagehost.org/t/0514/mont14.jpg (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0514/mont14)

Alot of them look Atlanto in those pics.

[safinator]

Alot of them look Atlanto in those pics.
Atlanto Med?

[brunette]

Yeah sorry.

[rashka]

I asked my grandma to whom do Montengrins look like most and she said Scottish.

[iNird]

I asked my grandma to whom do Montengrins look like most and she said Scottish.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4061/4669812732_5407c2534c_z.jpg

[safinator]

I asked my grandma to whom do Montengrins look like most and she said Scottish.
I think they look more like Norwegians on average.

[rashka]

[IMG].

.

Don't mind these two ... they're just foreign Albanians.

[Hess]

I asked my grandma to whom do Montengrins look like most and she said Scottish.

Your grandma is right; Montenegrins look like Scots, Serbs look like Swedes, and Croats look like Danes.

We're all one big Aryan Family :grouphug:

[Dilberth]

Your mother is right; Montenegrins look like Scots, Serbs look like Swedes, and Croats look like Danes.

We're all one big Aryan Family :grouphug:

A failed attempt of being sarcastic.

[Panopticon]

A failed attempt of being sarcastic.

A bad attempt at spotting sarcasm because that was irony.

Nothing in particular against you, but I think people need to learn which is which and you were being somewhat sarcastic yourself. His ironic statement is spot-on anyway.

[Dacul]

Highest percentage of people with brown hair from all populations I saw posted on theapricity and biodiversity forum.
Lol,who have jet black hair is atypical in Montenegro!

[Peyrol]

Very good looking people...Queen Elena of Italy was crnagoran.

[Dacul]

I think they look more like Norwegians on average.

Well as hair color,think norwegians are 2nd from the point of view as percentage of people with brown hair they got,but norwegians got more lighter brown than montenegrins.

[Dilberth]

Mneserb said that only way to recognize a Russian in Montenegro is to hear him speak.That was on another forum.

[safinator]

Well as hair color,think norwegians are 2nd from the point of view as percentage of people with brown hair they got,but norwegians got more lighter brown than montenegrins.
I was being sarcastic but apparently it didn't reach the objective.

[Hess]

Mneserb said that only way to recognize a Russian in Montenegro is to hear him speak.That was on another forum.

Whoever said that is severely misinformed.

We have a small Montenegrin population in Moscow and and we can tell them apart 80% of the time.

[Dilberth]

...

[rashka]

janBVPJG3CM
urpz7vQ1Cgg

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/GI7Fo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xO4Zk.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/Ht4zu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K8948.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sfN1Z.jpg

[Aura]

You are illyrians not slavs, and u should have spoken illyrian languange(albanian) today :(

[dralos]

aura finally you say something smart now go take a pic

[Dacul]

You are illyrians not slavs, and u should have spoken illyrian languange(albanian) today :(

If they are alboz,how come they are accentuating/stressing the letters in same way the serbians are accentuating/stressing them?
Telling about how they say/pronounce the letters in words,they are stressing first syllable from the word.

[rashka]

You are illyrians not slavs, and u should have spoken illyrian languange(albanian) today :(

llyrian language is not Albanian. :patpat:

[Sultan Suleiman]

aura finally you say something smart now go take a pic

Aren't they too shwarty to be Albos? :rolleyes:

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/Dnkt1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/E5dCH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OEvhI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T9zbK.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/OjvpT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Pqr0R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/O1rzz.jpg

[Aura]

llyrian language is not Albanian. :patpat:
of course its not illyrian cuz it has evolved from illyrian for example the root illy in albanian means star which was used for the sun too, for example king bardhyllis in albanian means whitestar etc its just smthg concrete...

[rashka]

of course its not illyrian cuz it has evolved from illyrian for example the root illy in albanian means star which was used for the sun too, for example king bardhyllis in albanian means whitestar etc its just smthg concrete...

You got illy from the Greek word for sun, Ilios like most of the Albanian language is made up of loanwords.

[safinator]

You got illy from the Greek word for sun, Ilios like most of the Albanian language is made up of loanwords.
Interesting, how do you know?
Are you a linguist?

[Aura]

You got illy from the Greek word for sun, Ilios like most of the Albanian language is made up of loanwords.

and how do u know that greeks didnt take it from illyrians or both took it from something else? anyway it proves that albanian is paleo balkan langunge and has words from old greek, thracian, macedonian, dacian which were very simmilar to each other

[Dacul]

and how do u know that greeks didnt take it from illyrians or both took it from something else? anyway it proves that albanian is paleo balkan langunge and has words from old greek, thracian, macedonian, dacian which were very simmilar to each other

I think they took it from aliens,both of them.
And aliens are in fact the ancestors of alboz,but becos alboz lived near greeks and south slavs so much they involved ,from this bad influence,and become how they are today.
I guess is clearly alboz discovered fire,the wheel,writing,reading,sailing,agriculture and so on.

[Aura]

I think they took it from aliens,both of them.
And aliens are in fact the ancestors of alboz,but becos alboz lived near greeks and south slavs so much they involved ,from this bad influence,and become how they are today.
I guess is clearly alboz discovered fire,the wheel,writing,reading,sailing,agriculture and so on.

hahh why are u mad? :D

[Vukodav]

You are illyrians not slavs, and u should have spoken illyrian languange(albanian) today :(

titts or gtfo.

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/zwGkM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7PxlV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r7eoE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jg43c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nYlAE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5j0qn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NimCQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6xi9O.jpg

[dralos]

Aren't they too shwarty to be Albos? :rolleyes:
some are indeed

[dralos]

if they were serbs they would have put the devilish 3finger:D
those last 3 girls

[Vukodav]

if they were serbs they would have put the devilish 3finger:D
those last 3 girls

titts or gtfo

[dralos]

noway i'm not into gayporn,you sickphuck:D

[Vukodav]

noway i'm not into gayporn,you sickphuck:D

than gtfo.

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/ulVOm.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/YpLod.jpg

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/qJvZU.jpg
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[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/JPJTij0.jpg
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[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/fYgYD.jpg
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[Mans not hot]

Can you post a pics of Montenegros from mountain areas? I'd imagine them to be uber Dinarid looking.

[Trun]

As far as I know, only mountaineers view themselves as Serbs.

They look more like Albos or Bulgarians than like Sorabians :D

[Minesweeper]

As far as I know, only mountaineers view themselves as Serbs.

They look more like Albos or Bulgarians than like Sorabians :D

You know nothing. :picard2:

Look at he linguistic structure, it's more precise then an ethnic one when it comes to separating Serbs and pro-Serbian declared Montenegrins from others.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/MontenegroLanguage2011.PNG/480px-MontenegroLanguage2011.PNG

[Lithium]

Sorry for the off topic but I think that their international name (Montenegro) is ridiculous. I have nothing against this country nor I have a special opinion about it but Cherna Gora or whatever other South Slavs call it is much better.

[safinator]

Can you post a pics of Montenegros from mountain areas? I'd imagine them to be uber Dinarid looking.
I think Facebook haven't still reached this areas, better ask Mneserb.

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/LHyK984.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3yjzeWx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wXXrzzl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Oygwz9s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B0f2Llv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pHS3jBW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lLGEYBV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DlF6MnI.jpg

[sashahappy]

http://www.domain.me/files/IMG_2427.JPG

[safinator]

http://i.imgur.com/1JWUjv4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gHbW4gp.jpg
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http://i.imgur.com/uInqpum.jpg

[Swearengen]

Milos Raonic

http://en.shanghairolexmasters.com/players/images/large/milos-raonic.jpg

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1145096!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpeg

[Hungarian_master]

Bump!

[Murri]

Bump!

Wow WTF, did you just bump a 2 year old thread?

[Hungarian_master]

Wow WTF, did you just bump a 2 year old thread?

Need more pitcure!