Is E-V13 a white and european haplogroup?

[Rocinante]

Not trolling, just want to know better this haplogroup.

[Vojnik]

White and European in the same way R1a is:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/8f/1d/5c8f1d33e6870c87ce65d134010d9563.png

[Ülev]

^^
the core belt of R1a :rolleyes:
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-r1a-z282-basal.png
= East of Poland :clapping

[Loki]

Yes

[Rocinante]

Yes

Is your paternal line from Central Europe or the Balkans? Is very curious to see a brittish E-V13, though in Anthrogenica there are many americans with this haplogroup.

[Rocinante]

^^
the core belt of R1a :rolleyes:
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-r1a-z282-basal.png
= East of Poland :clapping

R1b > R1a

Sorry.

[Daos777]

If it’ll be proven that E has existed in Southern Europe since late Mesolithic (via Capsians) then that would make E the second oldest haplo after I in Europe. Making it pretty damn european.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Loki]

Is your paternal line from Central Europe or the Balkans? Is very curious to see a brittish E-V13, though in Anthrogenica there are many americans with this haplogroup.

Well E-V13 is old...dating from the Neolithic. It is found in small quantities in Northern Europe too. Mine seems to have come from the Netherlands.

[Voskos]

It's white but not European.

[Rocinante]

It's white but not European.

It's of the M78 branch, more expanded in northeast Africa.

[Loki]

It's white but not European.

E-V13 specifically is European. It likely originated in Europe, and its distribution is European. Of course its parent is North African, but that is much older.

[Caballero]

Originally, it was neither white nor black. It's strictly tied to Ancient North African component which on autosomal tree was supposedly more basal than Basal Eurasian (Dzudzuana paper). But, it was still somewhat closer to Core Eurasian than SSA components.

This skeleton is from Cairo museum, a Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer from Egypt. Very likely his Y-DNA was E-M35/E-M78 and his autosomal was mostly ANA. Notice his unusually strong mandible, common among populations carrying ANA autosomal.

But, E-V13 was a mutation which happened in Europe, and funny enough the oldest mutation of E-V13 to date is from Iberia. The Cardial one from Croatia and the Linear from Hungary didn't still have the E-V13 mutation. So it must have happened somewhere more in the west. I hypothetize North Italy/Alpine region. Who knows.

https://i.imgur.com/th38jVK.jpg

[Rocinante]

Originally, it was neither white nor black. It's strictly tied to Ancient North African component which on autosomal tree was supposedly more basal than Basal Eurasian (Dzudzuana paper). But, it was still somewhat closer to Core Eurasian than SSA components.

This skeleton is from Cairo museum, a Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer from Egypt. Very likely his Y-DNA was E-M35/E-M78 and his autosomal was mostly ANA. Notice his unusually strong mandible, common among populations carrying ANA autosomal.

But, E-V13 was a mutation which happened in Europe, and funny enough the oldest mutation of E-V13 to date is from Iberia. The Cardial one from Croatia and the Linear from Hungary didn't still have the E-V13 mutation. So it must have happened somewhere more in the west. I hypothetize North Italy/Alpine region. Who knows.

https://i.imgur.com/th38jVK.jpg

It originated in Iberia i think, can't be coincidence that one iberomaurussian (TAF009) carried the E1b1b1a1b1 and the oldest E-V13 is in here.

[Annihilus]

https://i.imgur.com/OZXn3My.png

[Caballero]

It originated in Iberia i think, can't be coincidence that one iberomaurussian (TAF009) carried the E1b1b1a1b1 and the oldest E-V13 is in here.

How come then the Croatian Cardial Pottery sample was E-L618? Also, the Sopot Culture which is right north from Croatia was E-L618. Cardium Pottery initially landed in North Greece then South Albania then went up north to Dalmatia Croatia, then spread to Italy and finally to Iberia where it was found in exactly the same culture. We can speculate E-L618 took that route. Though, i would say that G2a was still the dominant Y-DNA, this particular culture was heavily influenced by a culture related to Natufians and Iberomarusians. Add that we find E-L618 and actual E-V13 in Iberia.

I am just speculating though, it can be as u say. E-L618 was spread along the shores of South Europe during Late Mesolithic, and the eventual mutation happened in Iberia.

[Caballero]

https://i.imgur.com/OZXn3My.png

Thanks to those E-M35 from Levant the Neolithic Revolution happened and along with that more permanent settlements, and setting the ground for further human civilizations.

[Caballero]

btw, according to Genetiker, none of the Iberomaurusian sample was L618 level positive, it was wrongly assessed.



Yes, the L618-level SNPs CTS1975 and CTS7273 are both transition SNPs, and their positive calls for TAF009 are both based on single reads, with both of the SNPs at the very end of their reads. So those positives are very likely to be false positives resulting from DNA damage.

The Z1919-level SNP CTS202 on the other hand is a transversion SNP, and TAF009’s negative call for that SNP is therefore reliable.

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2018/03/18/y-snp-calls-from-the-iberomaurusian-culture/

[Cristiano viejo]

No, it is African. Too many bad feelings from Balkans here.

[Rocinante]

No, it is African. Too many bad feelings from Balkans here.

Negro or moorish? xD

[Hulu]

btw, according to Genetiker, none of the Iberomaurusian sample was L618 level positive, it was wrongly assessed.



Loki should ban Rocinante for low-brow trolling of Ev13.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The E-V13 clade is European.

All haplogroups have the same source, it just depends how further you want to go down the ladder until you reach the foundational haplogroup A, which most scientists tend to attribute its possible place of origin in Africa.

[Rocinante]

Loki should ban Rocinante for low-brow trolling of Ev13.

No bro, not trolling. Someone bumped this old thread, but i am not trolling actually.

[Hulu]

No bro, not trolling. Someone bumped this old thread, but i am not trolling actually.

Not only is European, it could be North European in origin, or WHG your favorite people.

This is my yfull tree

YFull YTree v8.07.00 View: scientific newchart new YTree statisticsArchive SEARCH
HomeA0-TA1A1bBTCTDEEE-M5479E-P147E-P177E-M215E-M35E-L539E-M78E-Z1919E-L618E-V13E-Z1057E-CTS1273E-BY3880E-Z5018E-S2979E-FGC11457

E-FGC11450Y15156/FGC11450formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
id:ERS255992ITA [IT-CA]i
E-FGC11450*
id:YF71975
E-Y17356Y17746 * Y17747 * Y41980+1 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo
E-Y17356*
id:YF67005USA [US-NC]
E-Y17350Y17354 * Y17353 * Y17351+9 SNPsformed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 400 ybpinfo
id:YF04240NOR [NO-15]
id:YF02176NOR [NO-06]
E-Y58870BY4991 * BY4992 * BY4998+6 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1350 ybpinfo
id:SRS6609010HUN [HU-FE]inew
E-Y58870*
E-BY4994BY4994 * BY5002formed 1350 ybp, TMRCA 900 ybpinfo
id:YF15842DEU [DE-SH]
id:YF03872DEU [DE-SH]
E-Y173822PH345 * Y173821 * Y173822+15 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybpinfo
E-Y173822*
id:YF63834ALB
E-FT184022FT184022 * FT185295 * FT186102+5 SNPs
E-Y111116Y173858 * Y173911 * Y173918+6 SNPsformed 1200 ybp, TMRCA 350 ybpinfo
id:YF63744ALB
E-Y146086Y146086formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-Y146086*
E-BY68094BY161945 * BY68094 * FT83823formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-BY68094*
id:YF16034RUS
E-SK151BY160987 * BY161050 * BY161201+18 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 300 ybpinfo
id:YF68135FIN [FI-IS]
id:YF15584FIN [FI-ES]
E-Y140828BY142721 * Y146085 * Y146087+8 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 550 ybpinfo
id:YF13345
E-ZS1176ZS1176/FGC11444 * FGC476formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-ZS1176*
id:YF18795AUT [AT-3]
id:YF13686BGR [BG-06]
E-FGC11447FGC11446 * FGC11447formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-FGC11447*
id:YF72213RUS [RU-RYA]
id:YF04867DEU
id:YF04017POL [PL-PD]
E-Z38485Y16160 * Y16270 * Y16264+9 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1750 ybpinfo
E-Z38485*
id:YF03342SCT
E-Y45760BY4975 * BY4977 * BY4978+9 SNPsformed 1750 ybp, TMRCA 350 ybpinfo
id:YF70720SWE [SE-E]i
id:YF14224SWE [SE-T]
id:YF03704SWE [SE-E]i

[Rocinante]

Not only is European, it could be North European in origin, or WHG your favorite people.

This is my yfull tree

YFull YTree v8.07.00 View: scientific newchart new YTree statisticsArchive SEARCH
HomeA0-TA1A1bBTCTDEEE-M5479E-P147E-P177E-M215E-M35E-L539E-M78E-Z1919E-L618E-V13E-Z1057E-CTS1273E-BY3880E-Z5018E-S2979E-FGC11457

E-FGC11450Y15156/FGC11450formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
id:ERS255992ITA [IT-CA]i
E-FGC11450*
id:YF71975
E-Y17356Y17746 * Y17747 * Y41980+1 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo
E-Y17356*
id:YF67005USA [US-NC]
E-Y17350Y17354 * Y17353 * Y17351+9 SNPsformed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 400 ybpinfo
id:YF04240NOR [NO-15]
id:YF02176NOR [NO-06]
E-Y58870BY4991 * BY4992 * BY4998+6 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1350 ybpinfo
id:SRS6609010HUN [HU-FE]inew
E-Y58870*
E-BY4994BY4994 * BY5002formed 1350 ybp, TMRCA 900 ybpinfo
id:YF15842DEU [DE-SH]
id:YF03872DEU [DE-SH]
E-Y173822PH345 * Y173821 * Y173822+15 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1200 ybpinfo
E-Y173822*
id:YF63834ALB
E-FT184022FT184022 * FT185295 * FT186102+5 SNPs
E-Y111116Y173858 * Y173911 * Y173918+6 SNPsformed 1200 ybp, TMRCA 350 ybpinfo
id:YF63744ALB
E-Y146086Y146086formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-Y146086*
E-BY68094BY161945 * BY68094 * FT83823formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-BY68094*
id:YF16034RUS
E-SK151BY160987 * BY161050 * BY161201+18 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 300 ybpinfo
id:YF68135FIN [FI-IS]
id:YF15584FIN [FI-ES]
E-Y140828BY142721 * Y146085 * Y146087+8 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 550 ybpinfo
id:YF13345
E-ZS1176ZS1176/FGC11444 * FGC476formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-ZS1176*
id:YF18795AUT [AT-3]
id:YF13686BGR [BG-06]
E-FGC11447FGC11446 * FGC11447formed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 3300 ybpinfo
E-FGC11447*
id:YF72213RUS [RU-RYA]
id:YF04867DEU
id:YF04017POL [PL-PD]
E-Z38485Y16160 * Y16270 * Y16264+9 SNPsformed 3300 ybp, TMRCA 1750 ybpinfo
E-Z38485*
id:YF03342SCT
E-Y45760BY4975 * BY4977 * BY4978+9 SNPsformed 1750 ybp, TMRCA 350 ybpinfo
id:YF70720SWE [SE-E]i
id:YF14224SWE [SE-T]
id:YF03704SWE [SE-E]i

Actually, my favorite people are the EEFs, not the WHG, but it might be yours, trying to associate your test with them. It is your problem, not mine.

[Hulu]

Actually, my favorite people are the EEFs, not the WHG, but it might be yours, trying to associate your test with them. It is your problem, not mine.

I'm not gonna dig up your posts but pretty sure you posted that somewhere. Or the similar in several posts. This whole thread is in that vein.

[Rocinante]

I'm not gonna dig up your posts but pretty sure you posted that somewhere. Or the similar in several posts. This whole thread is in that vein.

According to you, i posted somewhere that my favorite people were the WHG... Interesting. Did you know that i trolled haplogroup I too, right? Also R1a, J2, Q, etc. So don't feel so important because you are E-V13.

[Adamm]

E-V13 heatmap:

https://i.imgur.com/rBAgwnM.png

Its most likely that E-V13 mutation occurred in Europe.

[ShieldWolf]

E-V13 most likely arose in Central or Eastern Europe. If not, it probably originated in the Levant.

E-V13 at Eupedia (https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#V13):

"At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe."

"The testing of ancient DNA from the Natufian culture (Mesolithic Levant) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region."

[Caballero]

E-V13 specifically is European. It likely originated in Europe, and its distribution is European. Of course its parent is North African, but that is much older.

What is your E-V13 subclade btw?

[Cristiano viejo]

Negro or moorish? xD
Negro I think.


Loki should ban Rocinante for low-brow trolling of Ev13.

You should respect the opinion of those who indeed think e1b1 is African. How not, if comes from there??