Please don't ban me, but does race exist?

[JohnJack]

I know that some people, typically on the left side of the political spectrum, argue that race and or ethnic/genetic groups are a social construct not based in genetics.

Here are some of their articles:
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/race-is-real-but-its-not-genetic
https://www.sapiens.org/body/is-race-real/
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/

Is this true from a genetic standpoint?

(I am NOT advocating any form of racism or racial supremacy at all, I just want to know if it's true or not. Please don't ban me).

[AdrianV]

If race is a social construct they why do people, from different parts of the world, look so differently.

[Luso]

If race is a social construct they why do people, from different parts of the world, look so differently.

Regional, geographic, and mutational change over thousands of years. Explain cheddar man in UK? Brits don't look like him now for a reason.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Cheddar_Man_upper_body.JPG/220px-Cheddar_Man_upper_body.JPG

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/02/08/world/europe/08cheddarman2/merlin_133414058_1130717b-287f-4773-b390-a46eee5e32df-superJumbo.jpg

[Leto]

I know that some people, typically on the left side of the political spectrum, argue that race and or ethnic/genetic groups are a social construct not based in genetics.

Here are some of their articles:
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/race-is-real-but-its-not-genetic
https://www.sapiens.org/body/is-race-real/
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/

Is this true from a genetic standpoint?

(I am NOT advocating any form of racism or racial supremacy at all, I just want to know if it's true or not. Please don't ban me).
Stop spamming the forum with nonsense.

[koinovskiduckling]

Do different breeds of dogs exist or can I start referring to my Shih Tzu as a german shepherd?

[Aldaris]

I don't think you know where you are right now. ;-) Noone's banning you, certainly not for this.

As for the answer, gonna give a short version. Yes, it does. Not in the sense the concept of a particular (and informal) taxonomical rank is wowen in spacetime, but when we use the term in a non-controversial context, i.e. with animal races, it's almost always in a way that you can apply the same reasoning to humans aswell and get to the same conclusion.

[AdrianV]

Regional, geographic, and mutational change over thousands of years. Explain cheddar man in UK? Brits don't look like him now for a reason.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Cheddar_Man_upper_body.JPG/220px-Cheddar_Man_upper_body.JPG

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/02/08/world/europe/08cheddarman2/merlin_133414058_1130717b-287f-4773-b390-a46eee5e32df-superJumbo.jpg

Something like that I suppose, and I would not rule out the hand of God in some manner.

[Luso]

Do different breeds of dogs exist or can I start referring to my Shih Tzu as a german shepherd?

Different dog breeds are not different species. Is it simply because we have not 'selected' and forced the evolution of humans like we have dogs.

Source: https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-019-0109-y

[Chris596]

Of course they exist and certain races have their characteristics, but this shouldn't have an impact on someone's daily life (for example to look at certain people with a different eye because of their race/racial characteristics). This is just my opinion.

[Narration]

Races exist, sub-races exist, sub-sub-races exist, and this goes on like that. However, the existence of them doesn't mean we have to be racist.

[Kyp]

Race do not exist but ethnicities. This is my standpoint. Race would presuppose the active selective breeding for a type of people which hasn't occured with humans.

It's just a matter of semantics at the end of the day. Yes different people exist but race might be the wrong word.

For example you don't use the word "race" for different kinds of Tigers because they haven't been breeded like dogs but formed naturally.

[Leto]

Race do not exist but ethnicities. This is my standpoint. Race would presuppose the active selective breeding for a type of people which hasn't occured with humans.

It's just a matter of semantics at the end of the day. Yes different people exist but race might be the wrong word.
This is a good article in German. No mainstream propaganda
https://www.tumult-magazine.net/post/ich-verstehe-mich-als-aufkl%C3%A4rer-andreas-vonderach-im-gespr%C3%A4ch

[Luso]

Race do not exist but ethnicities. This is my standpoint. Race would presuppose the active selective breeding for a type of people which hasn't occured with humans.

It's just a matter of semantics at the end of the day. Yes different people exist but race might be the wrong word.

For example you don't use the word "race" for different kinds of Tigers because they haven't been breeded like dogs but formed naturally.

Exactly. That guy that used the dog breeding example is using a shit analogy b/c humans aren't being selectively bred, never have been.

[Kyp]

This is a good article in German. No mainstream propaganda
https://www.tumult-magazine.net/post/ich-verstehe-mich-als-aufkl%C3%A4rer-andreas-vonderach-im-gespr%C3%A4ch

I'm not denying the differences of people and ethnicities. Just the word "race" does not fit for humans.

[Rocinante]

Yes, races exist, and race mixing create other sub-races.

[koinovskiduckling]

Exactly. That guy that used the dog breeding example is using a shit analogy b/c humans aren't being selectively bred, never have been.

Over analyzing a sarcastic comment is such a waste of energy.

[Leto]

Genetics differences do exist and different populations have their unique characteristics whether it should be called 'race' or not.

Anyway, white people perfectly exist when they are blamed for racism and oppression.

[Luso]

In regards to the dog breed analogy to humans... No one even listed the most important fact to this discussion:

Breeds, like race is an abstract and totally arbitrary definition. There aren't "pure" dog breeds. The dog breeds in which we have been acquainted become a trend when someone bred dogs over and again before they ended up with a form , colour, tempermant, etc. that they preferred, and wanted to name it a "pure breed." Dog breeds have nothing to do with nature, and anything to do with humans facility.

It's the same for horses, cats, cows and whatever else you might think about. The main reason there aren't varieties of any other animal type is that we didn't agree it would be there.

To create human "breeds" in the same sense as we use them for the aforementioned animals, you would have to control reproduction for a long time until you end up with separate groups with distinctive characteristics. Then you give just one name to each group, and BOOM! Branches. As I said it is totally random.

The only reason why calling sub-Saharan Africans, or Japanese, or Anglo-Saxons "breeds" would be incorrect is because they were not "bred." No one intervened directly and selectively bred them to achieve the characteristics that distinguish them. The distinctions that we see in them have been caused by natural selection (and perhaps some wars and genocide at some point).

[Luso]

Over analyzing a sarcastic comment is such a waste of energy.

Can't hear your tone when I read a text... unless you mention *sarcasm*.

[koinovskiduckling]

In regards to the dog breed analogy to humans... No one even listed the most important fact to this discussion:

Breeds are an abstract and totally arbitrary definition. There aren't "pure" dog breeds. The dog breeds in which we have been acquainted become a trend when someone bred dogs over and again before they ended up with a form , colour, tempermant, etc. that they preferred, and wanted to name it a "pure breed." Dog breeds have nothing to do with nature, and anything to do with humans facility.

It's the same for horses, cats, cows and whatever else you might think about. The main reason there aren't varieties of any other animal type is that we didn't agree it would be there.

To create human "breeds" in the same sense as we use them for the aforementioned animals, you would have to control reproduction for a long time until you end up with separate groups with distinctive characteristics. Then you give just one name to each group, and BOOM! Branches. As I said it is totally random.

The only reason why calling sub-Saharan Africans, or Japanese, or Anglo-Saxons "breeds" would be incorrect is because they were not "bred." No one intervened directly and selectively bred them to achieve the characteristics that distinguish them. The distinctions that we see in them have been caused by natural selection (and perhaps some wars and genocide at some point).

Ok, I get it, you don't understand sarcasm. I didn't realize you were an aspy, sorry.

I read this quickly so I can understand why you went into tangent mode. https://www.autism-society.org/what-is/aspergers-syndrome/

[Luso]

Ok, I get it, you don't understand sarcasm. I didn't realize you were an aspy, sorry.

I read this quickly so I can understand why you went into tangent mode. https://www.autism-society.org/what-is/aspergers-syndrome/

Your shit analogy got disproven, in turn, you pretend it was sarcasm. LOL :picard2: :rolleyes: You gotta learn how to sound sarcastic when you write then... ngl sounds like a personal issue

[Mixdguy17]

Race does exist, but some aspects of some stuff does end up being a social construct.

[Korialstrasz]

This is a good article in German. No mainstream propaganda
https://www.tumult-magazine.net/post/ich-verstehe-mich-als-aufkl%C3%A4rer-andreas-vonderach-im-gespr%C3%A4ch

Dann aber führten sie die gleiche Berechnung noch mit einer neunten Gruppe von Schimpansen, also mit einer anderen Art, durch. Der nun errechnete Wert war 18,3 Prozent. Das heißt, nach den Kriterien von Templeton besteht zwischen Menschen und Schimpansen nicht einmal ein Rassenunterschied, geschweige denn ein Artunterschied

Made me chuckle :D
Well, chimpanzees are just people that cannot talk, aren't they?

[Finnish Swede]

Races exits. Same does sub-races.

All humans still belongs to same species as different races can have fertile offsprings.

[TheMaestro]

Don't worry bro, this forum is full of racists, you might even get a VIP for promoting any racial supremacy.

[koinovskiduckling]

Your shit analogy got disproven, in turn, you pretend it was sarcasm. LOL :picard2: :rolleyes: You gotta learn how to sound sarcastic when you write then... ngl sounds like a personal issue

:rolleyes: if it makes you feel better that you spent time analyzing a sarcastic comment but in turn, caught me and exposed me, sure.

Since you are the one who went on the thumbs down tyraid it's pretty obvious who was the serious one.

Don't worry, aspey's are cool these days.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Obvious races do exist. The a lot of car races, but many of them stopped because covid-19.
https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200602152231/NASCAR-FOR-WEB.jpeg

[JohnJack]

Leto, what “nonsense” are you talking about? I asked a question dude.

Also, please stop being so critical. You have downvoted almost every question I have ever asked and labeled it as “nonsense” or “spamming.” I have no idea why you’re so critical.

[Tooting Carmen]

Race does exist, but some aspects of some stuff does end up being a social construct.

Yes, with DNA you can tell what race (or mixture of races) somebody is.