Full Samoan Harappaworld results

[El_Abominacion]

For reference this is Metal's result, fully Samoan. Family from American Samoa and Western Samoa (Island of Savai'i.)


# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 55.46
2 Papuan 23.71
3 NE-Asian 18.48
4 S-Indian 1.34
5 American 0.95
6 San 0.05
7 W-African 0.01
8 Pygmy 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 samoan (xing) 22.63
2 tongan (xing) 22.84
3 khmer-cambodian (xing) 29.25
4 thai (xing) 29.76
5 singapore-malay (sgvp) 31.69
6 kinh (1000genomes) 31.74
7 cambodian (hgdp) 32.18
8 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 32.24
9 lahu (hgdp) 32.34
10 dai (hgdp) 32.37
11 vietnamese (xing) 32.37
12 iban (xing) 43.15
13 khasi (chaubey) 45.3
14 burmanese (chaubey) 45.99
15 garo (chaubey) 48.93
16 miao (hgdp) 51.62
17 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 53.46
18 she (hgdp) 55.39
19 chinese (xing) 55.48
20 han-chinese-south (1000genomes) 56.48

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.4% tongan (xing) + 27.6% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 1.85
2 72.4% tongan (xing) + 27.6% tujia (hgdp) @ 1.91
3 71.4% tongan (xing) + 28.6% han (hgdp) @ 1.97
4 70.9% tongan (xing) + 29.1% chinese (xing) @ 2.01
5 71.3% tongan (xing) + 28.7% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 2.02
6 69.4% dai (hgdp) + 30.6% melanesian (hgdp) @ 2.07
7 70.9% tongan (xing) + 29.1% she (hgdp) @ 2.17
8 70.2% tongan (xing) + 29.8% singapore-chinese (sgvp) @ 2.33
9 69.4% tongan (xing) + 30.6% miao (hgdp) @ 2.48
10 81.1% samoan (xing) + 18.9% japanese (1000genomes) @ 2.78
11 75.6% tongan (xing) + 24.4% chinese-beijing (1000genomes) @ 2.81
12 69.5% dai-chinese (1000genomes) + 30.5% melanesian (hgdp) @ 3.32
13 75.3% tongan (xing) + 24.7% yi (hgdp) @ 3.33
14 79.1% samoan (xing) + 20.9% aonaga (reich) @ 3.35
15 78.8% samoan (xing) + 21.2% naga (metspalu) @ 3.51
16 76.5% dai (hgdp) + 23.5% papuan (hgdp) @ 3.6
17 75.5% tongan (xing) + 24.5% naxi (hgdp) @ 3.66
18 76.8% tongan (xing) + 23.2% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 3.67
19 79.1% samoan (xing) + 20.9% nysha (reich) @ 3.71
20 77% samoan (xing) + 23% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 4.14



1.


# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 56.14
2 Papuan 23.12
3 NE-Asian 19.85
4 Siberian 0.34
5 S-Indian 0.23
6 Beringian 0.14
7 Mediterranean 0.08
8 NE-Euro 0.06
9 San 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 samoan (xing) 23.33
2 tongan (xing) 23.83
3 khmer-cambodian (xing) 28.95
4 thai (xing) 29.74
5 kinh (1000genomes) 30.45
6 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 30.95
7 vietnamese (xing) 31.04
8 lahu (hgdp) 31.1
9 dai (hgdp) 31.11
10 singapore-malay (sgvp) 31.61
11 cambodian (hgdp) 31.97
12 iban (xing) 42.89
13 burmanese (chaubey) 45.66
14 khasi (chaubey) 45.73
15 garo (chaubey) 48.62
16 miao (hgdp) 50.47
17 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 52.31
18 she (hgdp) 54.26
19 chinese (xing) 54.37
20 han-chinese-south (1000genomes) 55.36

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.9% tongan (xing) + 30.1% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 0.32
2 69.5% tongan (xing) + 30.5% she (hgdp) @ 0.4
3 69.5% tongan (xing) + 30.5% chinese (xing) @ 0.42
4 70.5% dai (hgdp) + 29.5% melanesian (hgdp) @ 0.44
5 70% tongan (xing) + 30% han (hgdp) @ 0.45
6 68.7% tongan (xing) + 31.3% singapore-chinese (sgvp) @ 0.69
7 71.1% tongan (xing) + 28.9% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 0.9
8 67.9% tongan (xing) + 32.1% miao (hgdp) @ 0.99
9 71.1% tongan (xing) + 28.9% tujia (hgdp) @ 1.08
10 80.4% samoan (xing) + 19.6% japanese (1000genomes) @ 1.54
11 70.6% dai-chinese (1000genomes) + 29.4% melanesian (hgdp) @ 2.24
12 77.4% dai (hgdp) + 22.6% papuan (hgdp) @ 2.42
13 74.6% tongan (xing) + 25.4% chinese-beijing (1000genomes) @ 3.11
14 78.4% samoan (xing) + 21.6% aonaga (reich) @ 3.32
15 78.1% samoan (xing) + 21.9% naga (metspalu) @ 3.4
16 76.2% samoan (xing) + 23.8% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 3.41
17 75% samoan (xing) + 25% chinese-beijing (1000genomes) @ 3.42
18 74.7% samoan (xing) + 25.3% yi (hgdp) @ 3.74
19 78.4% samoan (xing) + 21.6% nysha (reich) @ 3.86
20 74.9% samoan (xing) + 25.1% naxi (hgdp) @ 3.91



2.


# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 50.43
2 NE-Asian 32.84
3 Papuan 12.73
4 Siberian 1.73
5 S-Indian 1.45
6 American 0.81

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 lahu (hgdp) 15.45
2 vietnamese (xing) 16.35
3 kinh (1000genomes) 18.08
4 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 23.03
5 dai (hgdp) 24.67
6 khmer-cambodian (xing) 25.55
7 thai (xing) 28.27
8 burmanese (chaubey) 30.71
9 miao (hgdp) 32.9
10 cambodian (hgdp) 33.23
11 garo (chaubey) 33.73
12 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 34.86
13 singapore-malay (sgvp) 35.02
14 she (hgdp) 36.92
15 chinese (xing) 37.02
16 khasi (chaubey) 37.13
17 han-chinese-south (1000genomes) 38.08
18 han (hgdp) 38.34
19 samoan (xing) 39.9
20 chinese-american (hapmap) 41.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.8% vietnamese (xing) + 12.2% papuan (hgdp) @ 1.92
2 84.9% lahu (hgdp) + 15.1% melanesian (hgdp) @ 1.96
3 51.9% chinese (xing) + 48.1% samoan (xing) @ 2.05
4 51% han (hgdp) + 49% samoan (xing) @ 2.19
5 84.3% vietnamese (xing) + 15.7% aus (reich) @ 2.29
6 51.2% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) + 48.8% samoan (xing) @ 2.36
7 54.8% miao (hgdp) + 45.2% samoan (xing) @ 2.4
8 88.4% lahu (hgdp) + 11.6% papuan (hgdp) @ 2.41
9 51% samoan (xing) + 49% tujia (hgdp) @ 2.41
10 51% samoan (xing) + 49% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 2.44
11 84.2% vietnamese (xing) + 15.8% melanesian (hgdp) @ 2.47
12 51.9% she (hgdp) + 48.1% samoan (xing) @ 2.56
13 53.4% singapore-chinese (sgvp) + 46.6% samoan (xing) @ 2.58
14 55.9% miao (hgdp) + 44.1% tongan (xing) @ 3.24
15 54.5% singapore-chinese (sgvp) + 45.5% tongan (xing) @ 3.8
16 85.3% lahu (hgdp) + 14.7% aus (reich) @ 3.99
17 53% chinese (xing) + 47% tongan (xing) @ 4.28
18 86.9% kinh (1000genomes) + 13.1% papuan (hgdp) @ 4.29
19 53% she (hgdp) + 47% tongan (xing) @ 4.35
20 57.1% samoan (xing) + 42.9% chinese-beijing (hapmap) @ 4.53


3.



# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 53.22
2 Papuan 26.59
3 NE-Asian 16.51
4 NE-Euro 1.38
5 S-Indian 0.7
6 American 0.55
7 Caucasian 0.49
8 Mediterranean 0.37
9 W-African 0.19
10 Beringian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 tongan (xing) 21.12
2 samoan (xing) 22.26
3 khmer-cambodian (xing) 32.96
4 thai (xing) 32.99
5 singapore-malay (sgvp) 34.87
6 cambodian (hgdp) 35.63
7 kinh (1000genomes) 35.96
8 lahu (hgdp) 36.23
9 vietnamese (xing) 36.4
10 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 36.6
11 dai (hgdp) 36.71
12 iban (xing) 46.05
13 khasi (chaubey) 46.66
14 burmanese (chaubey) 47.89
15 garo (chaubey) 50.81
16 miao (hgdp) 54.25
17 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 56.04
18 she (hgdp) 57.88
19 chinese (xing) 57.93
20 han-chinese-south (1000genomes) 58.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.3% tongan (xing) + 17.7% japanese (1000genomes) @ 2.35
2 80.4% tongan (xing) + 19.6% aonaga (reich) @ 2.4
3 80.1% tongan (xing) + 19.9% naga (metspalu) @ 2.49
4 78.4% tongan (xing) + 21.6% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 2.57
5 80.3% tongan (xing) + 19.7% nysha (reich) @ 2.68
6 65.3% dai (hgdp) + 34.7% melanesian (hgdp) @ 2.79
7 77.1% tongan (xing) + 22.9% yi (hgdp) @ 2.81
8 78.2% tongan (xing) + 21.8% tu (hgdp) @ 2.85
9 77.3% tongan (xing) + 22.7% naxi (hgdp) @ 2.87
10 77.5% tongan (xing) + 22.5% chinese-beijing (1000genomes) @ 3.02
11 80% tongan (xing) + 20% tibet (simonson) @ 3.22
12 65.4% dai-chinese (1000genomes) + 34.6% melanesian (hgdp) @ 3.94
13 74.9% tongan (xing) + 25.1% tujia (hgdp) @ 4.4
14 74.9% tongan (xing) + 25.1% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 4.46
15 73.4% dai (hgdp) + 26.6% papuan (hgdp) @ 4.52
16 74.2% tongan (xing) + 25.8% han (hgdp) @ 4.93
17 74.1% tongan (xing) + 25.9% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 5.05
18 73.8% tongan (xing) + 26.2% chinese (xing) @ 5.1
19 73.8% tongan (xing) + 26.2% she (hgdp) @ 5.29
20 78.4% tongan (xing) + 21.6% xibo (hgdp) @ 5.43



4.



# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 53.15
2 Papuan 23.82
3 NE-Asian 21.06
4 Siberian 1.19
5 S-Indian 0.61
6 American 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 tongan (xing) 25.6
2 samoan (xing) 25.76
3 khmer-cambodian (xing) 30.35
4 thai (xing) 31.07
5 lahu (hgdp) 31.17
6 kinh (1000genomes) 31.28
7 vietnamese (xing) 31.43
8 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 32.54
9 dai (hgdp) 32.92
10 singapore-malay (sgvp) 33.93
11 cambodian (hgdp) 34.12
12 burmanese (chaubey) 43.75
13 khasi (chaubey) 44.28
14 iban (xing) 45.76
15 garo (chaubey) 46.67
16 miao (hgdp) 49.08
17 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 50.91
18 she (hgdp) 52.79
19 chinese (xing) 52.84
20 han-chinese-south (1000genomes) 53.83

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.5% tongan (xing) + 27.5% chinese-beijing (1000genomes) @ 0.75
2 69.1% dai-chinese (1000genomes) + 30.9% melanesian (hgdp) @ 1.29
3 76% dai (hgdp) + 24% papuan (hgdp) @ 1.35
4 72% tongan (xing) + 28% yi (hgdp) @ 1.7
5 73.7% tongan (xing) + 26.3% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 1.85
6 69% tongan (xing) + 31% tujia (hgdp) @ 1.9
7 69% tongan (xing) + 31% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 2.05
8 72.3% tongan (xing) + 27.7% naxi (hgdp) @ 2.14
9 76.2% dai-chinese (1000genomes) + 23.8% papuan (hgdp) @ 2.3
10 68.9% dai (hgdp) + 31.1% melanesian (hgdp) @ 2.53
11 68% tongan (xing) + 32% han (hgdp) @ 2.67
12 67.9% tongan (xing) + 32.1% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 2.85
13 67.5% tongan (xing) + 32.5% chinese (xing) @ 2.87
14 78.6% tongan (xing) + 21.4% japanese (1000genomes) @ 3.08
15 78.5% samoan (xing) + 21.5% japanese (1000genomes) @ 3.17
16 67.5% tongan (xing) + 32.5% she (hgdp) @ 3.18
17 75.9% tongan (xing) + 24.1% naga (metspalu) @ 3.44
18 76.3% tongan (xing) + 23.7% aonaga (reich) @ 3.52
19 66.7% tongan (xing) + 33.3% singapore-chinese (sgvp) @ 3.54
20 76.2% samoan (xing) + 23.8% aonaga (reich) @ 3.59


5.



# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 54.46
2 Papuan 22.32
3 NE-Asian 18.72
4 NE-Euro 1.69
5 Mediterranean 1.43
6 Baloch 0.83
7 Caucasian 0.55

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 samoan (xing) 23.72
2 tongan (xing) 24.28
3 khmer-cambodian (xing) 28.59
4 thai (xing) 29.06
5 kinh (1000genomes) 30.55
6 lahu (hgdp) 31.03
7 vietnamese (xing) 31.09
8 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 31.25
9 dai (hgdp) 31.44
10 singapore-malay (sgvp) 31.47
11 cambodian (hgdp) 31.8
12 iban (xing) 43.17
13 khasi (chaubey) 44.47
14 burmanese (chaubey) 44.8
15 garo (chaubey) 47.9
16 miao (hgdp) 50.31
17 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 52.16
18 she (hgdp) 54.11
19 chinese (xing) 54.19
20 han-chinese-south (1000genomes) 55.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.1% samoan (xing) + 19.9% japanese (1000genomes) @ 2.54
2 70.8% tongan (xing) + 29.2% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 3.01
3 69.7% tongan (xing) + 30.3% han (hgdp) @ 3.01
4 69.2% tongan (xing) + 30.8% chinese (xing) @ 3.03
5 70.8% tongan (xing) + 29.2% tujia (hgdp) @ 3.05
6 69.6% tongan (xing) + 30.4% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 3.07
7 78.1% samoan (xing) + 21.9% aonaga (reich) @ 3.16
8 70.3% dai (hgdp) + 29.7% melanesian (hgdp) @ 3.17
9 69.2% tongan (xing) + 30.8% she (hgdp) @ 3.17
10 68.4% tongan (xing) + 31.6% singapore-chinese (sgvp) @ 3.22
11 67.6% tongan (xing) + 32.4% miao (hgdp) @ 3.25
12 77.7% samoan (xing) + 22.3% naga (metspalu) @ 3.26
13 75.8% samoan (xing) + 24.2% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 3.42
14 78% samoan (xing) + 22% nysha (reich) @ 3.48
15 70.5% dai-chinese (1000genomes) + 29.5% melanesian (hgdp) @ 3.67
16 77.2% dai (hgdp) + 22.8% papuan (hgdp) @ 3.8
17 74.2% tongan (xing) + 25.8% chinese-beijing (hapmap) @ 3.81
18 74.2% samoan (xing) + 25.8% yi (hgdp) @ 3.83
19 75.6% samoan (xing) + 24.4% tu (hgdp) @ 3.84
20 74.7% samoan (xing) + 25.3% chinese-beijing (1000genomes)

[StonyArabia]

A mix of Asian and Papuan/Melanesian makes sense

[Thambi]

wow why do they have such high NE asian? other than viets, i havent seen such high NE asian among other southeast asian populations.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Why is it so far from the Samoan reference?

[Chris596]

wow why do they have such high NE asian? other than viets, i havent seen such high NE asian among other southeast asian populations.

This also interests me. And the 2nd and 4th samples have a pretty high Siberian score as well, higher than mine. Would be interesting to find out how did they get such an admixture.

[El_Abominacion]

Why is it so far from the Samoan reference?

Honestly no clue. On MyTrueAncestry Metal has a distance of only 2-3 to the Samoan reference so this is very weird

[Mingle]

wow why do they have such high NE asian? other than viets, i havent seen such high NE asian among other southeast asian populations.


Why is it so far from the Samoan reference?

Lack of proper components for Samoans I'm assuming.

[El_Abominacion]

wow why do they have such high NE asian? other than viets, i havent seen such high NE asian among other southeast asian populations.

This is the harappaworld of a Filipino, with only 3.1% Chinese on 23andMe. It seems to be an Austronesian thing

https://i.imgur.com/7eyQX23.png

[Rgvgjhvv]

This also interests me. And the 2nd and 4th samples have a pretty high Siberian score as well, higher than mine. Would be interesting to find out how did they get such an admixture.

Why is it surprising they have more Siberian than you?

[Chris596]

Why is it surprising they have more Siberian than you?

Because they are located in Polynesia which is generally far away from mainland Asia, especially North Asia, Siberia. It's a totally different story in East Europe, where many people generally have some Siberian, let alone some Finnish, Russian individuals who can score even 10% or more. But I was told by Dr Maul that a Mongolic sample was found in the Philippines as well, so I can imagine some migrations in the region.

For example this is why I match a sample from the Philippines as well (in a calculator), not because I have ancestry from there (that would be really impossible even in my case), but because it was mainland Asian.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Because they are located in Polynesia which is generally far away from mainland Asia, especially North Asia, Siberia. It's a totally different story in East Europe, where many people generally have some Siberian, let alone some Finnish, Russian individuals who can score even 10% or more. But I was told by Dr Maul that a Mongolic sample was found in the Philippines as well, so I can imagine some migrations in the region.

I know what you mean but for both examples, we're talking minimal %'s and so while it could be direct lineage to some, to others it could just as easily be noise.

[Trouble]

wow why do they have such high NE asian? other than viets, i havent seen such high NE asian among other southeast asian populations.

It may have something to do with them being descended from Taiwanese aboriginals-who I would expect to be more NE Asian shifted than regular SE Asian populations.

[Petalpusher]

Could you run the K6 ASE for some of those? Not sure of the calc's name but it's with ASE.

[El_Abominacion]

Could you run the K6 ASE for some of those? Not sure of the calc's name but it's with ASE.

I wasn't able to select the kits directly chronologically (i.e. 1,2,3,4,5) as there were mixed individuals I had to sift through, so I have just done it for Metal's kit and the first other one

Metal's

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 70.01
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 28.91
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 0.62
4 Sub_Saharan 0.46

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cambodian 16.26
2 Kusunda 16.66
3 Sherpa 18.87
4 Tibetan 27.66
5 Kalmyk 30.4
6 Altaian 31.88
7 Kyrgyz 32.94
8 Eskimo 33.87
9 Nganasan 34.88
10 Pima 35.17
11 Mongola 35.17
12 Ami 35.77
13 Clovis 36.86
14 Han 37.32
15 Ulchi 38.88
16 Dai 39.83
17 Kharia 40.36
18 Hazara 41.51
19 Uygur 42.21
20 Uzbek 51.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.7% Ulchi + 33.3% Onge @ 0.55
2 71.1% Ulchi + 28.9% Andamanese @ 0.55
3 71.1% Ulchi + 28.9% Australian @ 0.55
4 71.1% Ulchi + 28.9% Papuan @ 0.55
5 67.6% Han + 32.4% Onge @ 0.92
6 71.9% Han + 28.1% Papuan @ 0.95
7 71.9% Han + 28.1% Andamanese @ 0.95
8 71.9% Han + 28.1% Australian @ 0.95
9 66.1% Dai + 33.9% Onge @ 1.05
10 68.5% Ami + 31.5% Onge @ 1.05
11 70.6% Dai + 29.4% Papuan @ 1.08
12 72.7% Ami + 27.3% Andamanese @ 1.08
13 72.7% Ami + 27.3% Australian @ 1.08
14 72.7% Ami + 27.3% Papuan @ 1.08
15 70.6% Dai + 29.4% Andamanese @ 1.08
16 70.6% Dai + 29.4% Australian @ 1.08
17 73.8% Tibetan + 26.2% Onge @ 1.84
18 77.6% Tibetan + 22.4% Andamanese @ 1.94
19 77.6% Tibetan + 22.4% Australian @ 1.94
20 77.6% Tibetan + 22.4% Papuan @ 1.94


#1

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 72.06
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 27.94

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Cambodian 14.74
2 Kusunda 17.32
3 Sherpa 18.16
4 Tibetan 25.75
5 Kalmyk 29.21
6 Altaian 31.38
7 Kyrgyz 32.72
8 Eskimo 32.73
9 Nganasan 33.13
10 Mongola 33.24
11 Ami 33.72
12 Pima 35.15
13 Han 35.27
14 Ulchi 36.85
15 Clovis 37.27
16 Dai 37.77
17 Hazara 42.27
18 Kharia 42.53
19 Uygur 42.93
20 Uzbek 52.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.3% Ami + 29.7% Onge @ 0.04
2 67.9% Dai + 32.1% Onge @ 0.04
3 73.4% Han + 26.6% Andamanese @ 0.2
4 73.4% Han + 26.6% Australian @ 0.2
5 73.4% Han + 26.6% Papuan @ 0.2
6 69.3% Han + 30.7% Onge @ 0.21
7 68.4% Ulchi + 31.6% Onge @ 0.9
8 72.6% Ulchi + 27.4% Andamanese @ 0.91
9 72.6% Ulchi + 27.4% Australian @ 0.91
10 72.6% Ulchi + 27.4% Papuan @ 0.91
11 75.7% Tibetan + 24.3% Onge @ 2.79
12 79.2% Tibetan + 20.8% Andamanese @ 2.89
13 79.2% Tibetan + 20.8% Australian @ 2.89
14 79.2% Tibetan + 20.8% Papuan @ 2.89
15 70.7% Mongola + 29.3% Onge @ 3.56
16 74.7% Mongola + 25.3% Papuan @ 3.73
17 74.7% Mongola + 25.3% Andamanese @ 3.73
18 74.7% Mongola + 25.3% Australian @ 3.73
19 85.4% Cambodian + 14.6% Onge @ 5.68
20 87.8% Cambodian + 12.2% Andamanese @ 5.82

[Petalpusher]

Thanks, that's what i thought, about 70/30. Looks more straightforward and sensical at lower K to me. The 2 pop fits are great.