How to group french G25 pop average references in order to make means among them.

[gixajo]

References/samples are:

-Basque_French
-French_Alsace
-French_Auvergne
-French_Brittany
-French_Corsica
-French_Nord
-French_Occitanie
-French_Paris
-French_Pas-de-Calais
-French_Provence
-French_Seine-Maritime
-French_South

I can guess several options of grouping samples to do their means (even a mean of all of them) , but I prefer other members aport their opinions before making them.

Specially valued French members opinion, of course.

[gixajo]

My call for collaboration seems not have been very successful.

[Samnium]

You can group French-Britanny and French-Seine Maritime, averages are very close, and they are both NW French (Normandy and Britanny).

IMO you can also group Occitanie with Provence, Alsace with Paris and Nord too, to make a Northern French average (outside of NW France)

[Samnium]

French-South is particuliarly Basque shifted so I would say to keep it separated.

[gixajo]

You can group French-Britanny and French-Seine Maritime, averages are very close, and they are both NW French (Normandy and Britanny).

IMO you can also group Occitanie with Provence, Alsace with Paris and Nord too, to make a Northern French average (outside of NW France)

I did already Occitanie with Provence, i can add also South French, that is similar (even I thought it was an average between both)

Could you please write your groups in this form? I know is quite annoying but...

South France( or any other denomination)= Provence+Occitanie

Northern France=

I forgot add French_Swiss, I can add if it helps.

And which ones samples we could do French Unique cluster with, who was named in that map?:

https://i.imgur.com/B2OYj9k.png

[gixajo]

French-South is particuliarly Basque shifted so I would say to keep it separated.



Distance to: Basque_French
0.01852973 French_South
0.03569003 French_Occitanie
0.03787751 French_Auvergne
0.04776558 French_Paris
0.05000878 French_Provence
0.05257031 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.05258975 French_Nord
0.05418760 French_Alsace
0.05999995 French_Brittany
0.06285634 French_Seine-Maritime
0.06717067 French_Corsica

Distance to: French_South
0.01852973 Basque_French
0.02691098 French_Occitanie
0.02758152 French_Auvergne
0.03796680 French_Provence

[gixajo]

French-South is particuliarly Basque shifted so I would say to keep it separated.

According to this map the most "purest" French cluster would be?

Auvergne(+Paris)???

Maybe add also Swiss French?

Distance to: French_Auvergne
0.01321153 Swiss_French
0.02026928 French_Paris

Too German Swiss French sample? maybe better Swiss French+Alsace?

[gixajo]

Maybe better not to guide ourselves with that map:

Distance to: French_Auvergne
0.00784020 French_Occitanie
0.01321153 Swiss_French
0.01770268 French_Provence
0.02026928 French_Paris
0.02230779 French_Nord
0.02251324 French_Alsace
0.02758152 French_South
0.02846016 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03654127 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03926504 French_Brittany
0.05296122 French_Corsica

Really, I don´t know well what to do.:confused:

[Samnium]

According to this map the most "purest" French cluster would be?

Auvergne(+Paris)???

Maybe add also Swiss French?

Distance to: French_Auvergne
0.01321153 Swiss_French
0.02026928 French_Paris

Too German Swiss French sample? maybe better Swiss French+Alsace?

Auvergne + Alsace, try that, I think it would be a good Central average.

[Ibericus]

I would say based on the PCa plot below :

Auvergne, Occitania would be one cluster (central-south)
Swiss French, Italian Aosta and Provence would be South-East cluster
Basque and SW French (altough SW French closer to other northern spanish like Cantabria).
Alsace are similar to Swiss-Germans.
Brittany similar to British.
French_Paris, Pas-de-Calais, French nord (central-north cluster)
Corisca are similar to central-north Italians.
The seint-maritime sample is a useless sample, they are few and probably not local, too eastern for a Norman sample.

https://i.ibb.co/hVYxFGS/pca.png

[RyoHazuki]

References/samples are:

-Basque_French
-French_Alsace
-French_Auvergne
-French_Brittany
-French_Corsica
-French_Nord
-French_Occitanie
-French_Paris
-French_Pas-de-Calais
-French_Provence
-French_Seine-Maritime
-French_South

I can guess several options of grouping samples to do their means (even a mean of all of them) , but I prefer other members aport their opinions before making them.

Specially valued French members opinion, of course.

Are you creating these means manually by calculating each individual coordinate?

[gixajo]

Are you creating these means manually by calculating each individual coordinate?

I take coordinates from every reference from scaled modern population averages and I do the means in tables aplying a simple formula, and one by one to check every result, because I use free software for doing it, and sometimes I have to change some number formats , number of decimals, or some coordinates have decimals expressed in scientific notations so could give me a wrong result.

I copied then every individual average in its position, one by one, but it´s only because sometimes I copy something wrong, and in this way I can check everyone also.

Why?

[gixajo]

Defcon2 has suggested these groups:


Center: French_Auvergne, French_Occitanie
Northwest: French_Brittany, French_Seine-Maritime
Noreast: French_Alsace, French_Nord, French_Paris, French_Pas-de-Calais
Southeast: French_Provence, French_Corsica
Southwest: Basque_French, French_South


What do you opine?

[RyoHazuki]

I take coordinates from every reference from scaled modern population averages and I do the means in tables aplying a simple formula, and one by one to check every result, because I use free software for doing it, and sometimes I have to change some number formats , number of decimals, or some coordinates have decimals expressed in scientific notations so could give me a wrong result.

I copied then every individual average in its position, one by one, but it´s only because sometimes I copy something wrong, and in this way I can check everyone also.

Why?

Just curious how you did it, I'm interested in this method of making regional averages.

[gixajo]

I cannot make the groups with that map, because in that map Auvergne is defined as "unique french cluster" and french_Auvergen reference in datasheet is quite southern shifted.

[gixajo]

here we go, if someone has a French sample, he can try it.


France_Nord-Ouest,0.13178183,0.13863970,0.05247007,0.03188280, 0.04013817,0.01509430,0.00384553,0.00160890,0.0068 9857,0.00931887,-0.00562590,0.00509383,-0.01065307,-0.00892407,0.01541860,0.00534807,-0.00524437,0.00025050,-0.00105483,0.00034073,0.00612677,0.00291067,-0.00097933,0.00690943,-0.00175630
France_Nord-Est,0.12779320,0.14045735,0.05083715,0.02401875,0. 03834760,0.00890055,0.00200830,0.00464710,0.007612 30,0.01134780,-0.00330905,0.00430565,-0.01015255,-0.00617610,0.00987985,0.00280470,-0.00474980,0.00233265,0.00366885,0.00015740,0.0024 4830,0.00134055,-0.00144715,0.00730355,-0.00014990
France_Sud-Ouest,0.12711605,0.14840510,0.05239550,0.01084125, 0.05355055,0.00258965,-0.00057070,0.00279880,0.02911845,0.03993185,-0.00802325,0.00885285,-0.02141455,-0.01379480,0.01179605,0.00041470,-0.00851035,0.00240975,-0.00025055,-0.00125140,0.00757405,0.00082770,-0.00695215,-0.00836335,-0.00067410
France_Centre,0.12629375,0.14304605,0.04892535,0.0 1849095,0.04218765,0.00665110,0.00122955,0.0039836 0,0.01350490,0.02017300,-0.00508600,0.00708335,-0.01343755,-0.01002685,0.01103420,0.00377305,-0.00130630,0.00308060,0.00289040,-0.00059540,0.00202930,0.00365585,-0.00175740,0.00647840,-0.00099690
France_Sud-Est,0.12448190,0.14436455,0.04288520,0.01163330,0. 04011650,0.00287300,0.00139465,0.00376440,0.012457 05,0.02202135,-0.00357850,0.00689640,-0.01359060,-0.01020960,0.00834635,0.00287075,-0.00130605,0.00264705,0.00159965,-0.00073515,0.00260600,0.00259025,-0.00109765,0.00360540,0.00022880
France_Corse,0.1203273,0.1518216,0.0195294,-0.0230022,0.0350394,-0.0100401,-0.0018464,-0.0005604,0.0157044,0.0337918,-0.0006031,0.0074612,-0.0132308,-0.0071074,-0.004537,-0.0005968,0.0040419,0.0012489,0.0024511,-0.0030461,-0.0003923,0.0002474,-0.0025793,-0.0013858,-0.0005303


Sud-Est=French_Provence+French_Occitanie

Sud-Ouest=French_South+Basque+French

Nord-Est=French_Nord+French_Alsace

Nord-Ouest=French_Seine_Maritime+French_Pas-de-Calais+French_Brittany

Centre=French_Auvergne+French_Paris

Corse=French_Corsica

[gixajo]

I think that it´s quite well made and have coherence.

https://i.imgur.com/MC96gGG.png

Despite the fact that the distances may vary a little, generally to something more, than with a greater number of samples.

Thanks to all that collaborate.

if you see something wrong in any coordinate tell me, I may have forgotten to check some average, although I think I check them all.

[Samnium]

I will check that, I'm not on my computer now

[gixajo]

I will check that, I'm not on my computer now

Si tu peux aussi parler avec Dududud, si je me souviens bien, il a déjà publié les résultats du g25 de son père, il peut donc essayer les nouvelles coordinates et opiner.

Je lui ai déjà demandé de collaborer pour faire ces groupes mais il n'a pas répondu.

Je ne connais personne d'autre qui a g25 de Français natives ici, si tu en sais plus, tu peux lui dire aussi.

Ils ne sont pas obligés de publier les résultats, seulemente dire s'ils sont assez coherents.

[Samnium]

Si tu peux aussi parler avec Dududud, si je me souviens bien, il a déjà publié les résultats du g25 de son père, il peut donc essayer les nouvelles coordinates et opiner.

Je lui ai déjà demandé de collaborer pour faire ces groupes mais il n'a pas répondu.

Je ne connais personne d'autre qui a g25 de Français natives ici, si tu en sais plus, tu peux lui dire aussi.

Ils ne sont pas obligés de publier les résultats, seulemente dire s'ils sont assez coherents.

Il y a Oustreiham qui passe de tps à autre mais je te conseillerais de te faire un compte sur Anthrogenica, il y a beaucoup de français là bas, tu pourrais leur présenter ton travail

[gixajo]

Il y a Oustreiham qui passe de tps à autre mais je te conseillerais de te faire un compte sur Anthrogenica, il y a beaucoup de français là bas, tu pourrais leur présenter ton travail

Je suis membre d´Anthrogenica.

I will post there all this.

[dududud]

J'ai déjà posté les résultats de mon père, je crois...