Lack of DNA papers from SE Europe

[Jana]

Compare this, only for ancient Hungarian population we have 6 different studies!


All studies of old Hungarian genetics put togheder:

http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53105-5
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.13.200154v1

Meanwhile, not a single study on medieval Slavic immigrants! Or medieval Croat, Serb, Sclavenian, Caranthianian immigrants, 7 Slavic tribes....nothing!
Not a single study of old Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, Dardanians, Paeonians, Balkan Celts, old Bulgars, Dorians, old Macedonians, Ostrogoths...list is endless.


Really sad and frustrating.

[Zeno]

Compare this, only for ancient Hungarian population we have 6 different studies!



Meanwhile, not a single study on medieval Slavic immigrants! Or medieval Croat, Serb, Sclavenian, Caranthianian immigrants, 7 Slavic tribes....nothing!
Not a single study of old Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, Dardanians, Paeonians, Balkan Celts, old Bulgars, Dorians, old Macedonians, Ostrogoths...list is endless.


Really sad and frustrating.

Ummm, there's multiple studies for Greece. Some of which have been endlessly and mercilessly regurgitated here by Greek and other members.

[Daos777]

It’s because all of those tribes were master race and there is a conspiracy to cover their greatness up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

At some point it will pick up.

It is annoying that whenever I see something from Romania, it is always mtDNA. I swear, it's like a curse at this point.
And there's so much data available already (http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp). That's the most annoying thing about it. Romania has a very rich culture of digging and storing archeological remains.
According to the digital repository, the following sites with human remains have been discovered (each site can have anything from one to hundreds of remains). And that's not even all, because some of them are also categorised under "civil settlement" instead of "necropolis".

Neolithic-Eneolithic: 136
Bronze Age: 610
Iron Age(Hallstatt-La Tene): 248
Hellenistic period: 12
Roman period: 176
Migration period: 127
Byzantium: 11
Medieval period: 163
Unknown: 1710
Unspecified: 65
Total: 3112

Say hello to the Celts (http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp?descript=fantanele-matei-bistrita-nasaud-necropola-latene-de-la-fantanele-la-gata-cod-sit-ran-33701.05) from the photos for example.


Kurgans
https://i.imgur.com/ZNd1YcA.png

All sites
https://i.imgur.com/TVW1ctN.png

Infuriating, isn't it?

[Jana]

Ummm, there's multiple studies for Greece. Some of which have been endlessly and mercilessly regurgitated here by Greek and other members.

There aren't. Only Myceneans have been studied from ancient Greeks, and few samples only, that's nothing.

[Lucas]

Especially I want to know what would be closest modern population to Proto-Bulgars.

[PAGANE]

The results of the medieval Bulgarian tests were supposed to come out in the summer, but due to the situation with the virus, as far as I understood, they were postponed for the autumn. We are also looking forward to them. There is a study, but only mitochondrial of proto-Bulgarian and Thracian samples - dissertation work of a Bulgarian geneticist, but it is only in Bulgarian

[Crn Volk]

Racism. Balkan Lives Matter

[Voskos]

There's a study from Maros culture in Serbia (2100BC-1800BC) mentioned in a post by a Bulgarian user (bained).

Pooling individuals, admixture proportions are estimated to be around 8% (± 1.2% standard error (SE)) western hunter gatherers, 55% (± 2.5% SE) Aegean Neolithic farmers, and 37% (± 2.3% SE) Eastern European steppe-like population (Fig. S7). https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.18.101337v1.full

[Ion Basescul]

The results of the medieval Bulgarian tests were supposed to come out in the summer, but due to the situation with the virus, as far as I understood, they were postponed for the autumn. We are also looking forward to them. There is a study, but only mitochondrial of proto-Bulgarian and Thracian samples - dissertation work of a Bulgarian geneticist, but it is only in Bulgarian

Autosomal study? If so then I'm quite hyped.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Ion Basescul; 6801859] Автозомно изследване? Ако е така, тогава съм доста разхитен. [/ ЦИТОВЕ]
Yes, there should be an autosomal addition to Y - DNA

[bained]

Meanwhile, not a single study on medieval Slavic immigrants! Or medieval Croat, Serb, Sclavenian, Caranthianian immigrants, 7 Slavic tribes....nothing!



Can't test imaginary things.

Anyway, use google translate or pan-slavic language:

Bulgars:
http://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/booksBG/AVTOREFERAT%20Desislava%20Nesheva.pdf
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/04/687384.full.pdf
This was Bulgar fort during that time: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0193578

Thracians:
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/analyses-of-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgarian-genomes/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41945-0

[DStephenson]

Compare this, only for ancient Hungarian population we have 6 different studies!



Meanwhile, not a single study on medieval Slavic immigrants! Or medieval Croat, Serb, Sclavenian, Caranthianian immigrants, 7 Slavic tribes....nothing!
Not a single study of old Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, Dardanians, Paeonians, Balkan Celts, old Bulgars, Dorians, old Macedonians, Ostrogoths...list is endless.


Really sad and frustrating.

Post some Chuvash samples in K13 you only have have West Slavs lol, I put all nice samples from Russia in Anthrogenica.com and Ph2ter deleted all why?

[WeirdLookingFellow]

At some point it will pick up.

It is annoying that whenever I see something from Romania, it is always mtDNA. I swear, it's like a curse at this point.
And there's so much data available already (http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp). That's the most annoying thing about it. Romania has a very rich culture of digging and storing archeological remains.
According to the digital repository, the following sites with human remains have been discovered (each site can have anything from one to hundreds of remains). And that's not even all, because some of them are also categorised under "civil settlement" instead of "necropolis".

Neolithic-Eneolithic: 136
Bronze Age: 610
Iron Age(Hallstatt-La Tene): 248
Hellenistic period: 12
Roman period: 176
Migration period: 127
Byzantium: 11
Medieval period: 163
Unknown: 1710
Unspecified: 65
Total: 3112

Say hello to the Celts (http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp?descript=fantanele-matei-bistrita-nasaud-necropola-latene-de-la-fantanele-la-gata-cod-sit-ran-33701.05) from the photos for example.


Kurgans
https://i.imgur.com/ZNd1YcA.png

All sites
https://i.imgur.com/TVW1ctN.png

Infuriating, isn't it?

Your spreadsheets contributed more to the knowledge of Romanian-Moldovan genetics than all existing scholarly studies combined.

[Dorian]

Future material maybe?

New Bronze Age site discovered in Himarë, Albania
Yesterday the excavation of a tumulus dating to the Bronze Age and containing multiple burials was announced here in Albania. Excavations at the site, in the municipality of Himara, started two years ago after some graves were discovered in the bed of a stream.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S9KnCw5tpMM/XwS2QCP4sAI/AAAAAAAABJc/8WrqP0Zmo8EL2cNi61wXjsGJbh4OsBbBQCK4BGAsYHg/s900/25747e13-f434-4f56-a6b0-6ba5fa08539f.jpg

Himara is a coastal town in the south of Albania, and is part of the Vlora regional authority. Vlora’s Director of Heritage, Orges Feimi, has today made a statement about the discovery, news of which was broken by journalist Aleksander Çipa on his Facebook page.

Feimi explained that the site was discovered during surveys in the Himara area, which is thought to have great potential for undiscovered archaeological sites. During these inspections a chance find showing evidence of burials was made in the bed of the Goran brook, which is subject to seasonal torrents. It seems that the surface had been washed away to reveal some cist graves.

The discovery was verified by archaeological authorities and the National Council of Archaeology authorised the rescue excavation of the graves in 2018. Following that excavation, the tumulus and other graves in the channel of the stream were also discovered.


The tumulus has been dated to the late Bronze Age, between the 15th and 12th centuries BCE and contains several burials along with grave goods. The remains of a well-constructed circular wall made of several courses of substantial stone blocks can be seen, with a group of stone lined burials in the centre. The graves make use of large slabs of stone, and do not seem to be all oriented in the same direction. Documentation is still ongoing, and some of the finds are undergoing conservation. Results of the excavations will be made public at a later date.

The presence of more than one tumulus, along with the cist graves, confirms the existence of a necropolis in the area of Ndrehora, near the new Himara bypass. Odise Çaçi, historian of Vlora, has warned about importance of the archaeological wealth of the area and possible destruction in the face of the construction that is going on in the area. He has called for construction companies to employ an archaeologist on their staff.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs_%28English%29.s vg/800px-Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs_%28English%29.s vg.png
https://i.postimg.cc/L6bnn6T0/download.png (https://postimages.org/)two male betta fish in one tank with divider (https://bettafishcaretaker.com/)

[Samnium]

Italy lack of studies as well, even if recently there have been interesting one (about Roman and Sicilian genetics). But we still don’t have any Samnite, Messapian, Lucanian, Osque samples... Messapians were maybe Illyrian but impossible to know that without the samples.

Even about modern populations. There have been very few studies about Modern Southern or Central Italians.

Greece, it’s the same thing, atleast for Ancient period.

[ph2ter]

Post some Chuvash samples in K13 you only have have West Slavs lol, I put all nice samples from Russia in Anthrogenica.com and Ph2ter deleted all why?

What are you talking about? How can I delete anything.

[andre]

What are you talking about? How can I delete anything.

It’s a troll, don’t consider him.

[Jana]

Can't test imaginary things.

Anyway, use google translate or pan-slavic language:

Bulgars:
http://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com/booksBG/AVTOREFERAT%20Desislava%20Nesheva.pdf
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/04/687384.full.pdf
This was Bulgar fort during that time: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0193578

Thracians:
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-y-snp-calls-from-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgaria/
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/analyses-of-iron-and-bronze-age-bulgarian-genomes/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41945-0

Thanks. To addition to your first sentence - stop taking drugs.

:)

[Kaspias]

The results of the medieval Bulgarian tests were supposed to come out in the summer, but due to the situation with the virus, as far as I understood, they were postponed for the autumn. We are also looking forward to them. There is a study, but only mitochondrial of proto-Bulgarian and Thracian samples - dissertation work of a Bulgarian geneticist, but it is only in Bulgarian

Who is carrying out the research of medieval Bulgarians? Karachanak?

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Kaspias; 6806519] Кой извършва изследванията на средновековните българи? Karachanak? [/ Цитат]


No, these are new. They are organized by people who are interested in DNA and are working on one of the Bulgarian DNA projects together with Bulgarian archaeologists who provided medieval bones from the necropolises of the fortress Kastritsa / the territory of Euxinograd-Varna / and Preslav. as far as I am informed. The research is done in the Laboratory in Ravenna

[Kaspias]

[QUOTE = Kaspias; 6806519] Кой извършва изследванията на средновековните българи? Karachanak? [/ Цитат]


No, these are new. They are organized by people who are interested in DNA and are working on one of the Bulgarian DNA projects together with Bulgarian archaeologists who provided medieval bones from the necropolises of the fortress Kastritsa / the territory of Euxinograd-Varna / and Preslav. as far as I am informed. The research is done in the Laboratory in Ravenna

Thank you for the information. Is there a link in which we can follow their work and get the news?

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Kaspias; 6806579] Благодаря ви за информацията. Има ли линк, в който можем да следим тяхната работа и да получаваме новините? [/ ЦИТАТ]
So far there is no information. I also learned about this 4 months ago in a Bulgarian DNA group on Facebook and shared it here only as information.

[SharpFork]

I don't really care about the medieval Balkans, as far as I can see we aren't going to get anything particularly revolutionary, the genomes of the local Turks, Greeks, Romance speakers, Slavs etc. is all stuff we can easily expect with the information we have right now from other ancient samples and modern samples. What we really need late Bronze age and Iron Age Balkan samples but also Roman era samples, maybe they can elucidate on the linguistic situation of the region before Romanization/Hellenization.

[ChocolateFace]

Future material maybe?

New Bronze Age site discovered in Himarë, Albania
Yesterday the excavation of a tumulus dating to the Bronze Age and containing multiple burials was announced here in Albania. Excavations at the site, in the municipality of Himara, started two years ago after some graves were discovered in the bed of a stream.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S9KnCw5tpMM/XwS2QCP4sAI/AAAAAAAABJc/8WrqP0Zmo8EL2cNi61wXjsGJbh4OsBbBQCK4BGAsYHg/s900/25747e13-f434-4f56-a6b0-6ba5fa08539f.jpg

Himara is a coastal town in the south of Albania, and is part of the Vlora regional authority. Vlora’s Director of Heritage, Orges Feimi, has today made a statement about the discovery, news of which was broken by journalist Aleksander Çipa on his Facebook page.

Feimi explained that the site was discovered during surveys in the Himara area, which is thought to have great potential for undiscovered archaeological sites. During these inspections a chance find showing evidence of burials was made in the bed of the Goran brook, which is subject to seasonal torrents. It seems that the surface had been washed away to reveal some cist graves.

The discovery was verified by archaeological authorities and the National Council of Archaeology authorised the rescue excavation of the graves in 2018. Following that excavation, the tumulus and other graves in the channel of the stream were also discovered.


The tumulus has been dated to the late Bronze Age, between the 15th and 12th centuries BCE and contains several burials along with grave goods. The remains of a well-constructed circular wall made of several courses of substantial stone blocks can be seen, with a group of stone lined burials in the centre. The graves make use of large slabs of stone, and do not seem to be all oriented in the same direction. Documentation is still ongoing, and some of the finds are undergoing conservation. Results of the excavations will be made public at a later date.

The presence of more than one tumulus, along with the cist graves, confirms the existence of a necropolis in the area of Ndrehora, near the new Himara bypass. Odise Çaçi, historian of Vlora, has warned about importance of the archaeological wealth of the area and possible destruction in the face of the construction that is going on in the area. He has called for construction companies to employ an archaeologist on their staff.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs_%28English%29.s vg/800px-Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs_%28English%29.s vg.png


Olekenion was Illyrian. Who made this map? Illyrians were known to have a strong coastal presence so I wouldn't be surprised if some of those on the sea coast were also Illyrian.