Investigating the genetic characteristics of the Csangos, a traditionally Hungarian speaking ethnic

[Ion Basescul]

This must be the Hungarian month for DNA papers or something :lol:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s10038-020-0799-6#Sec12

"Csango people are an East–Central European ethnographic group living mostly in the historical region of Moldavia, Romania. Our findings suggest that genetic affinity of Csangos to Hungarians is more significant than to Romanians. They also have a detectable connection with Central-Asian and Siberian Turkic ethnic groups. Besides the presumable Middle Eastern/Central-Asian Turkic ancestry, Csangos show ~4% Turkic ancestry from Central Asia/Siberia, which makes them unique in comparison to all other East–Central European populations investigated in this study. The admixture that resulted in this Turkic ancestry could have occurred 30–40 generations ago, which date interval corresponds to Hungarian historical events regarding their migration and the conquest of the Carpathian basin."

"We genotyped here 30 Csango individuals on the Affymetrix Genome-Wide SNP Array 6.0 platform. The obtained dataset contained 868,130 SNPs."

Instead of comparing Csangos to Romanians from Bacau county or at least Moldavia, they just used the dataset from Behar with Southern Romanians in Wallachia. They didn't even bother to remove the 2 full Gypsies from the average, which are Romanian_b in HarrapaWorld.
https://i.imgur.com/6b3Uhwg.png

Top-tier trolling
https://i.imgur.com/w4HNvk4.png

Angry email

https://i.imgur.com/0sJDsfc.png


I hope we will get the aDNA and then compare for ourselves.

[Jana]

You are right by everything you wrote here. But judging by Csangos collected by Dunai they are different from Romanians including eastern Romanians. I'd need to look it up again and now it's late though.

It's incredible how faulty and amateurish these "professional studies" are. Also plauged by political correctness. Shameful.

[Ion Basescul]

You are right by everything you wrote here. But judging by Csangos collected by Dunai they are different from Romanians including eastern Romanians. I'd need to look it up again and now it's late though.

It's incredible how faulty and amateurish these "professional studies" are. Also plauged by political correctness. Shameful.

No, Csango are definitely different as an average and look more like an intermediary population between Hungarians from Hungary and Romanians. But it just doesn't make sense to compare them against Southern Romanians who are basically Bulgarians genetically and let alone Romas. These are not the Romanians that they live together with.
I have them here.


https://i.imgur.com/Nfwuaxq.png

[vbnetkhio]

Angry email

https://i.imgur.com/0sJDsfc.png



Would those unmixed Moldovan academic samples be a better choice then? you should have recommended them.
anyway, you are way too harsh on them. this is a top level genetic study. you don't wanna see what an average genetic study looks like.

[Ion Basescul]

Would those unmixed Moldovan academic samples be a better choice then? you should have recommended them.
anyway, you are way too harsh on them. this is a top level genetic study. you don't wanna see what an average genetic study looks like.

No, those are also different from Romanians living next to Csangos. The better choice would be to get at least 10 samples from the same location or in adjacent counties, since they came on the ground.

[Ion Basescul]

I've modified the admixture chart from the first post to make it easier to compare.

For South Romanians, Hungarians and Csango, I've drawn a line showing the upper Northern and upper Southern limit of those samples.

Grey - South Romanians
Green - Hungarians
Pink - Csangos

https://i.imgur.com/diDBtA4.png

Then a further modification, where I've colored the interval between the most Northern Csango and the most Southern Hungarian (top) and the interval between the most Northern South Romanian and the most Southern Csango.


https://i.imgur.com/epoLgAv.png

[Aspirin]

You are right by everything you wrote here. But judging by Csangos collected by Dunai they are different from Romanians including eastern Romanians. I'd need to look it up again and now it's late though.


Csangos collected by Dunai, except one.

https://sun9-9.userapi.com/nWuu2ZzDtqvTFp7XzEDymq5-vq0oaFcpm2BewQ/J3mzk0gBXnE.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

Csangos collected by Dunai, except one.

https://sun9-9.userapi.com/nWuu2ZzDtqvTFp7XzEDymq5-vq0oaFcpm2BewQ/J3mzk0gBXnE.jpg

The K15 plot is trash and so are the averages. K13 is way more accurate in this regard. But even here it's clear that they are an intermediary population.

[gixajo]

No, Csango are definitely different as an average and look more like an intermediary population between Hungarians from Hungary and Romanians. But it just doesn't make sense to compare them against Southern Romanians who are basically Bulgarians genetically and let alone Romas. These are not the Romanians that they live together with.
I have them here.


g]

Sorry my ignorance but, what is considered South West Asia there and why is separated from India?

[Ion Basescul]

Sorry my ignorance but, what is considered South West Asia there and why is separated from India?

You are looking at a chart with only 5 components, so there isn't neither a South West Asia nor India component.
From what I can gather,
Violet = Central Asia Turkic
Blue = NW Asia/Caucasus
Green = Siberia (which for Romas seems to be confused with Indian, due to Siberian Hunter Gatherer admixture in Indians)
Light green = NE Europe
Red = Atlantic

https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs10038-020-0799-6/MediaObjects/10038_2020_799_MOESM1_ESM.pdf

[gixajo]

You are looking at a chart with only 5 components, so there isn't neither a South West Asia nor India component.


L]

I meant the table showed in post #3, the last 2 columns, SW Asia, and India, separately.

[Ion Basescul]

I meant the table showed in post #3, the last 2 columns, SW Asia, and India, separately.

Ah, my K13 data; SW Asia = the sum of Red Sea and Northeast Africa, while India = South Asian

[Aspirin]

The K15 plot is trash and so are the averages. K13 is way more accurate in this regard. But even here it's clear that they are an intermediary population.

I know that K15 is not very accurate, but I didn't expected what they will plot like that.