Bulgarians are between Slavs and Mediterraneans, turkic genes not found, gene study

[hajduk]

A peculiar Slavic-Mediterranean gene admixture is in the core of the Bulgarian nation, a new Bulgarian-Italian genetic study has revealed.

Gene probes of 855 Bulgarians, including individuals from the country's Islam population, have been gathered and compared with other European nations, Professor Draga Toncheva from the Sofia-based Medical University has explained in an interview for the Bulgarian National Radio.

The results have failed to show any Turkic connection in the Bulgarians nation's genesis, contrary to popular beliefs.

Croatians, Poles, Ukrainians and other Slavic nations are closest to Bulgarians, according to the study. However, Bulgarians are a peculiar type of Slavs, since they also have Mediterranean genes, head of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences' Microbiology Institute Angel Galabov has pointed out.

The Bulgarians' "peculiarity" has probably been the result of their contacts with ancient Thracians, scientists reckon.

The place of origin of the Ancient Bulgarians is most likely Eastern Iran, a group of anthropologists and scientists claimed in 2010 after an exploratory trip to the Persian lands.

Long-established theories about the making up of the Bulgarian ethnicity state that the Bulgarian nation was formed through the mixing of the Bulgarians with the local population made up of Slavs and some Thracians. Before 1989 the Bulgarians were believed to have been a minor tribe of Turkic origin.
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=131894

[Mordid]

Wut? Bulgarians are the least Slavic.

[Lithium]

The stupid propaganda is false when it comes to real science. :)

[Quasimodem]

Does anyone have a link to the study?

EDIT: Found only the abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21674295)


To define the matrilineal relationships between Bulgarians and other European populations, we have evaluated the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation in a sample of 855 Bulgarian subjects from the mtDNA perspective. The molecular survey was performed by sequencing ∼750 bp of the control region, which resulted in 557 different haplotypes, and by a subsequent restriction fragment length polymorphism analysis to confirm haplogroup/subhaplogroup affiliation. The classification was carried out according to the most updated criteria as reported by van Oven and Kayser (Hum Mutat 30:386-394, 2009), allowing the identification of 45 mitochondrial clades. The observed pattern of mtDNA variation indicates that the Bulgarian mitochondrial pool is geographically homogeneous across the country, and that is characterized by an overall extremely high frequency of western Eurasian lineages. In the principal component analysis, Bulgarians locate in an intermediate position between Eastern European and Mediterranean populations, which is in agreement with historical events. Thus, while the Mediterranean legacy could be attributed to the Thracians, indigenous people that firstly inhabited the Balkans, the Eastern contribution is likely due to the Proto-Bulgarians originating from the Middle East and to the Slavs migrating from northeast Europe.

[hajduk]

I think they will publish it quickly. I will give you the study

[Quasimodem]

Ha! I got access to the full paper. Does this link work for you guys: https://webvpn.mcgill.ca/http/metapress.com/content/a504755001863k7g/fulltext.pdf

[hajduk]

not for me, can you post it

[Quasimodem]

not for me, can you post it

Okay, I thought it might not work...I guess the system is smarter than that. I've uploaded it here: http://www.box.net/shared/16h8i3vv27kn6hkpf4le

Hope it works...

[hajduk]

Thank you mate. Great work

[bluesky]

no they might not have turkic genes in them but there is some iranic genes in bulgarians obviously

[Guapo]

A peculiar Slavic-Mediterranean gene admixture [/url]

like all south slavs

[Anthropologique]

Ha! I got access to the full paper. Does this link work for you guys: https://webvpn.mcgill.ca/http/metapress.com/content/a504755001863k7g/fulltext.pdf

Yes, but you need to be registered.

[Anthropologique]

Okay, I thought it might not work...I guess the system is smarter than that. I've uploaded it here: http://www.box.net/shared/16h8i3vv27kn6hkpf4le

Hope it works...

Works fine...:thumbs up

[Agrippa]

no they might not have turkic genes in them but there is some iranic genes in bulgarians obviously

Do you refer to European Iranians (Scythians, Sarmatians etc.)?

[Ibericus]

According to Dodecad, they are genetically most similar to Romanians :

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dp8_BzPBhFY/TlzlGZz5wfI/AAAAAAAAAlM/hCvdEM0N3QQ/s1600/balkans.png

[South Europa]

It just basically means Bulgarians are genetically intermediate between Slavic populations like Poles or Czechs and other 'Mediterranean' populations like Greeks or Italians.

[hajduk]

Sure you can find many people who can easily pass as poles, people who look greek, and many people intermediate between both

[hajduk]

However I am happy that the turkic-mongoloid theory was debunked, long time ago by historians, patriots and now genetic studies proves it

[Lithium]

I think that in the Bulgarian case Mediterranean refers to Thracian which is different from Greek or Italian.

[Sikeliot]

My impression was that before Slavic intrusion into the Balkans, all Balkanians would have been more or less like Greeks.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Just as Turks of Western Turkey barely input any non-European, should we consider them European now?

[Agrippa]

Just as Turks of Western Turkey barely input any non-European, should we consider them European now?

That was the topic of other threads already.

They would be European if being still Greeks, Christians/or at least non-Muslims and less mixed with the other, more Near Eastern elements.

Sure, there is a strong European-like element in them, and they are among the most integrable non-Europeans, but fact is, they belong to a nation which, as a whole, is not European and being by Islam, Turkic and mixture, too far removed from Europe as a whole at least.

[Guapo]

all Balkanians would have been more or less like Italians

Fixed, Greeks didn't bother moving northwards. Too lazy.

[bluesky]

Do you refer to European Iranians (Scythians, Sarmatians etc.)?

yes but not only scythians and sarmatians they are just iranic tribes there is plenty other tribes like the medes adn parthians and almost all of these tribes had the same genes

[bluesky]

and ofcourse these iranic genes might have come from the scythians or sarmatians but its still the same genes as medes and parthians

[Agrippa]

and ofcourse these iranic genes might have come from the scythians or sarmatians but its still the same genes as medes and parthians

No they are not, because the Medes, Persians and Parthians came from a different region of Central Asia and been historically recognisable mostly when coming or better already living in the Near East, where they mixed with local populations.

If you consider that, they had the same Proto-Iranian origin, but not the same genes - Parthians being closest to European Iranians of those probably, coming directly from Central Asia in historical times, but still...

And the Scythians influenced Southern Russians and Ukrainians more than Bulgarians I'd assume, yet Thracians being closely related to the Cimmerian and Scythian Indo-Europeans, therefore Romanians and Bulgarians have the same element probably, but only comparable to the European Iranians, not the Asian ones (Medes, Persians etc.)...

[bluesky]

No they are not, because the Medes, Persians and Parthians came from a different region of Central Asia and been historically recognisable mostly when coming or better already living in the Near East, where they mixed with local populations.

If you consider that, they had the same Proto-Iranian origin, but not the same genes - Parthians being closest to European Iranians of those probably, coming directly from Central Asia in historical times, but still...

And the Scythians influenced Southern Russians and Ukrainians more than Bulgarians I'd assume, yet Thracians being closely related to the Cimmerian and Scythian Indo-Europeans, therefore Romanians and Bulgarians have the same element probably, but only comparable to the European Iranians, not the Asian ones (Medes, Persians etc.)...

no you are wrong they had the same genes 2 of the 6 median tribes were scythian kurds from turkey has 21% R1a and I2a2 25% that shows that they still is strongly Scythian/Median/Parthian influenced

[bluesky]

and its like the western slavs and southern slavs both of them has the same genes pretty much but some of them dont

[d3cimat3d]

Study is garbage. They made the conclusion that Bulgarians are a Slav-Med mixed people only by looking at y-dna and mtdna haplogroups, pretty useless.


My impression was that before Slavic intrusion into the Balkans, all Balkanians would have been more or less like Greeks.

Without the Slavs the Balkans would still be a lighter than Greece. There were other north-Europid people at play in the Balkans besides Slavs.

[bluesky]

they would have to do admixture analysis to know the real answers........

[Agrippa]

no you are wrong they had the same genes 2 of the 6 median tribes were scythian kurds from turkey has 21% R1a and I2a2 25% that shows that they still is strongly Scythian/Median/Parthian influenced

I never said something else. Point is, having an "influence from the original" and "being the original" is not the same.

So the European-Northern Central Asian Iranians are the rather pure original stock people, those, which became influenced, being just that - influenced.

The Thracians for example were, on the long run, when their caste like social stratification broke up, mixed people too, so were the Kurds and others, just with the respective local people - which means Euro-Mediterranean stock in Bulgaria-Romania primarily, Near Eastern in todays Kurdistan.

[bluesky]

I never said something else. Point is, having an "influence from the original" and "being the original" is not the same.

So the European-Northern Central Asian Iranians are the rather pure original stock people, those, which became influenced, being just that - influenced.

The Thracians for example were, on the long run, when their caste like social stratification broke up, mixed people too, so were the Kurds and others, just with the respective local people - which means Euro-Mediterranean stock in Bulgaria-Romania primarily, Near Eastern in todays Kurdistan.

no you are still wrong... there is still 100% PURE KURDS and original and that has been proven but they wont last for long if they keep mixing sadly.... i would say that they are a big minority only like 15-25% % of the kurds are still pure white medes,scythian and parthian...that would be only 3-10 million kurds that is white

[bimo]

Study is garbage. They made the conclusion that Bulgarians are a Slav-Med mixed people only by looking at y-dna and mtdna haplogroups, pretty useless.



Without the Slavs the Balkans would still be a lighter than Greece. There were other north-Europid people at play in the Balkans besides Slavs.

accepts the reality you don't agree with this study because you don't like it, bulgarian are not like poles and especially like russian , bulgarian are between central/eastern europe and south europe , but if we compare bulgarian with russian and south european they are more southern , bulgarian are very diverse from russian , and they don't have uralid or ladogan looking people like russian, the north slav who are slighty similar with bulgarian are some south poles slovak czech and ethnic ukrainians , not russian and biellorussian

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't think Bulgarians are by large Turkic but rather more of a mix between whoever lived in Thrace and Moesia before the Bulgar invasions and whoever lived in Anatolia before the Oghuz Turk invasions. However, today, Bulgarians have adopted a Turkic name like the Turks have. The only real difference between Bulgaria and Turkey is religion and that's it.

[Trun]

I don't think Bulgarians are by large Turkic but rather more of a mix between whoever lived in Thrace and Moesia before the Bulgar invasions and whoever lived in Anatolia before the Oghuz Turk invasions. However, today, Bulgarians have adopted a Turkic name like the Turks have. The only real difference between Bulgaria and Turkey is religion and that's it.

I can brush my ass with your theories.

[safinator]

New Study about Bulgaria (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0056779)

http://i.imgur.com/8JvdPDa.png

[morski]

New Study about Bulgaria (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0056779)

http://i.imgur.com/8JvdPDa.png

Turks will be pissed off.:D

[Crn Volk]

New Study about Bulgaria (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0056779)

http://i.imgur.com/8JvdPDa.png

Good study

[Lobster]

I agree!! Bulgarians are white and Caucasoid people!! They pass in Greece, Turkey Macedonia, Bosnia, Serbia, Romania, Moldova, Hungary, Ukraine, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Israel, Georgia, Armenia, Lebanon and other Caucasoid countries, mainly of eastern and southern Europe, my friends.

[Scandal]

I agree!! Bulgarians are white and Caucasoid people!! They pass in Greece, Turkey Macedonia, Bosnia, Serbia, Romania, Moldova, Hungary, Ukraine, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Israel, Georgia, Armenia, Lebanon and other Caucasoid countries, mainly of eastern and southern Europe, my friends.
I love you man.

[Lobster]

I love you man.

I love you too, my friend! Cheers!