DNA Genics K13 vs GEDmatch K13

[JamesBond007]

Has anyone tried both GEDmatch Eurogenes K13 and the DNA Genics Admixture Studio ? It seems to me admixture studio is far superior.

Alright, let me preface this by saying I've been obsessed with my genetics for a very long time because on paper I'm Irish, English and German/French but the history of the Irish and English is not a good one so I wanted to know if I was more related to the Irish or Scottish or Welsh or English especially since I have an Irish name. All these dna tests and calculators give different results so I decided on K13 to rule them all. Problem is there are three versions of K13 : Gedmatch, Vahaduo and DNA Genics.

I think DNA Genics is the best but I might be thinking that because it is telling me I'm more closely related to the English than the Irish. Dna Genics also has a cool radar feature via the pro version. It shows that I am almost a perfect fit genetically for English :

https://i.postimg.cc/5NWQvLvj/k13radar.png

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% English @ 4.117
2 100% Irish @ 4.171
3 100% Welsh @ 4.173
4 100% Scottish @ 4.484
5 100% Orcadian @ 4.568
6 100% West_Scottish @ 5.161
7 100% Southwest_English @ 5.564
8 100% North-Dutch @ 5.802
9 100% Southeast_English @ 6.272
10 100% North_German @ 6.963

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Welsh + 50% North_German @ 3.286
2 50% English + 50% Welsh @ 3.498
3 50% Welsh + 50% North-Dutch @ 3.510
4 50% Irish + 50% Welsh @ 3.569
5 50% Welsh + 50% Orcadian @ 3.581
6 50% Welsh + 50% Scottish @ 3.682
7 50% Welsh + 50% Danish @ 3.796
8 50% English + 50% Irish @ 3.801
9 50% Welsh + 50% Norwegian @ 3.804
10 50% English + 50% Scottish @ 3.840

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Welsh + 33% Welsh + 33% North_German @ 2.843
2 33% Welsh + 33% Scottish + 33% North_German @ 3.096
3 33% Welsh + 33% Scottish + 33% German_West @ 3.150
4 33% Irish + 33% Welsh + 33% North_German @ 3.204
5 33% Irish + 33% Welsh + 33% German_West @ 3.215
6 33% Welsh + 33% Welsh + 33% Danish @ 3.270
7 33% Welsh + 33% Welsh + 33% Norwegian @ 3.313
8 33% Welsh + 33% Welsh + 33% North-Dutch @ 3.329
9 33% Welsh + 33% Welsh + 33% German_West @ 3.404
10 33% English + 33% Irish + 33% Welsh @ 3.431

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Scottish + 25% North_German @ 2.878
2 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% North_German @ 2.928
3 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Scottish + 25% German_West @ 3.059
4 25% Irish + 25% Irish + 25% Welsh + 25% German_West @ 3.165
5 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Scottish + 25% Danish @ 3.189
6 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Danish @ 3.256
7 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Norwegian @ 3.303
8 25% Irish + 25% Irish + 25% Welsh + 25% North_German @ 3.320
9 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Scottish + 25% Norwegian @ 3.363
10 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% Welsh + 25% German_West @ 3.380


In comparison here is my GEDmatch results :

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.80
2 Baltic 23.37
3 West_Med 13.18
4 West_Asian 8.11
5 Siberian 1.37
6 Oceanian 1.15


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 3.862380
2 Orcadian @ 4.424406
3 West_Scottish @ 4.838403
4 Southwest_English @ 5.407835
5 North_Dutch @ 5.467000
6 Danish @ 6.244601
7 Southeast_English @ 6.306530
8 Norwegian @ 7.105875
9 North_German @ 7.160923
10 Swedish @ 9.322725
11 South_Dutch @ 9.624322
12 West_German @ 10.870525
13 French @ 15.669524
14 North_Swedish @ 16.110004
15 Austrian @ 16.458277
16 East_German @ 16.737020
17 Hungarian @ 21.762369
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 23.417994
19 Southwest_French @ 23.986454
20 Spanish_Cantabria @ 24.658991

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 3.862380


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% South_Dutch @ 3.707607


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + South_Dutch @ 3.707607
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_German @ 3.747404
3 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southwest_English @ 3.782264
4 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 3.825925
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 3.862380
6 Irish + Irish + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 3.872767
7 Irish + Irish + West_German + West_Scottish @ 3.873712
8 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 3.887663
9 Irish + North_German + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.930622
10 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.935894
11 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 3.947983
12 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 3.959943
13 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + South_Dutch @ 3.964984
14 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.973070
15 Irish + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.990454
16 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.990937
17 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 4.002400
18 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + Southwest_English @ 4.007975
19 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_German @ 4.020545
20 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 4.023258

[Luke35]

My K13 DNA Genics oracles look better than my GEDmatch and vahaduo, at least as far as matching my known ancestry.

[JamesBond007]

Actually, I notice in some Europeans who use K13 that North-Atlantic is not their primary component. So I theorize that maybe perhaps Eurogenes K15 is superior ,especially the DNA Genics version, for Europeans where North-Atlantic is the highest component so it can break it down into its constituent parts of North-Sea (Anglo-Saxon) and Atlantic.

So here is my Dna Genics K15 :

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% England @ 2.921
2 100% Dutch @ 3.148
3 100% Scotland @ 4.029
4 100% Southwest_English @ 4.219
5 100% Southeast_English @ 4.350
6 100% North_Dutch @ 4.705
7 100% West_Scottish @ 5.159
8 100% Irish @ 5.164
9 100% Orcadian @ 5.529
10 100% North_German @ 6.022

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% England + 50% Dutch @ 2.661
2 50% England + 50% England @ 2.921
3 50% Dutch + 50% Southwest_English @ 2.992
4 50% England + 50% Scotland @ 3.143
5 50% Dutch + 50% Dutch @ 3.148
6 50% Scotland + 50% Southwest_English @ 3.228
7 50% England + 50% North_Dutch @ 3.267
8 50% Southwest_English + 50% North_Dutch @ 3.287
9 50% Dutch + 50% Southeast_English @ 3.306
10 50% England + 50% Southwest_English @ 3.379

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% England + 33% England + 33% Dutch @ 2.662
2 33% England + 33% Dutch + 33% Dutch @ 2.747
3 33% England + 33% Dutch + 33% Southwest_English @ 2.859
4 33% Dutch + 33% Dutch + 33% Southwest_English @ 2.860
5 33% England + 33% England + 33% England @ 2.921
6 33% England + 33% Dutch + 33% Scotland @ 2.962
7 33% Dutch + 33% Scotland + 33% Southwest_English @ 2.969
8 33% Orcadian + 33% Orcadian + 33% East_German @ 2.973
9 33% England + 33% England + 33% Scotland @ 2.979
10 33% England + 33% England + 33% North_Dutch @ 2.987

Using 4 populations approximation
1 25% Orcadian + 25% Orcadian + 25% Orcadian + 25% East_German @ 2.622
2 25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch + 25% Dutch @ 2.661
3 25% England + 25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch @ 2.697
4 25% England + 25% England + 25% England + 25% Norway @ 2.729
5 25% England + 25% England + 25% England + 25% North_Swedish @ 2.818
6 25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch + 25% Southwest_English @ 2.833
7 25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch + 25% Scotland @ 2.841
8 25% England + 25% England + 25% England + 25% North_German @ 2.842
9 25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch + 25% North_German @ 2.843
10 25% Dutch + 25% Dutch + 25% Dutch + 25% Southwest_English @ 2.864

[JamesBond007]

My K13 DNA Genics oracles look better than my GEDmatch and vahaduo, at least as far as matching my known ancestry.

Thanks for the input !

[Luke35]

Thanks for the input !

And I also agree that K15 is as good, or better in some cases. I can give examples with my own results later.

[Scandal]

Didn't even know about DNA genics admixture studio as I'm a newbie to genetics, so thanks for letting me know about it.

My vahaduo, gedmatch and dna genics k13 results look more or less the same, very slight differences

It seems I have zero german in me (unlike many of my countrymen). I'm just baltoslavic+southern euro.

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my k13

https://i.imgur.com/Zjx4BSn.jpg

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edit: my k15:

https://i.imgur.com/y1KCTiF.jpg

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I like DNA genics, it looks cleaner and more professional than gedmatch mianly due to better GUI. The only drawback is that it seems slow, but I can overlook that.

[JamesBond007]

Didn't even know about DNA genics admixture studio as I'm a newbie to genetics, so thanks for letting me know about it.



I like DNA genics, it looks cleaner and more professional than gedmatch mianly due to better GUI. The only drawback is that it seems slow, but I can overlook that.

It's slow because they want you to pay a small fee to upgrade to the pro version which will unlock it to be faster.

[Chris596]

Didn't even know about DNA genics admixture studio as I'm a newbie to genetics, so thanks for letting me know about it.

My vahaduo, gedmatch and dna genics k13 results look more or less the same, very slight differences

It seems I have zero german in me (unlike many of my countrymen)


Cool, we are really similar in this respect (the lack of Germanic ancestry).
I can say the same, in my case it's more or less the same as well. A really useful thing is the nMonte calculator and the different Population Oracles which are really an advantage compared to regular GEDMatch.

My results for comparison:


Components %
North_Atlantic 25.01
Baltic 30.11
East_Med 15.44
West_Asian 10.52
West_Med 15.36
Red_Sea 0.27
East_Asian 1.62
Siberian 1.27
Sub-Saharan 0.40

Mixed Mode:
1 53.52% Greek_Western-Macedonia + 46.48% Ukrainian @ 1.395
2 50.39% Macedonian_Greece + 49.61% Czech @ 1.540
3 50.39% Czech + 49.61% Macedonian_Greece @ 1.569
4 64.45% Macedonian_Greece + 35.55% Southwest_Finnish @ 1.758
5 64.45% Bosniak_Tuzla + 35.55% Turk_Kavala @ 1.825
6 53.52% Slovak + 46.48% Macedonian_Greece @ 1.926
7 50.39% Ukrainian + 49.61% Greek_Western-Macedonia @ 1.940
8 66.02% Bulgarian + 33.98% South_Polish @ 1.942
9 55.86% Macedonian_Greece + 44.14% German_east @ 1.945
10 50.39% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.61% Greek_Western-Thrace @ 1.998

Least-squares method.

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Serbian_new @ 3.006
2 100% South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster @ 3.175
3 100% Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina @ 3.582
4 100% Bosnian @ 3.693
5 100% Serb_Croatia @ 3.725
6 100% Romanian_South_Central_Moldova @ 4.087
7 100% Serbian_Bosnia @ 4.499
8 100% Croat_Split @ 4.778
9 100% Szekely @ 5.040
10 100% Romanian_Botosani @ 5.411

Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Macedonian_Greece + 50% Czech @ 1.551

Using 3 populations approximation
1 33% Bosniak_Tuzla + 33% Bosniak_Tuzla + 33% Turk_Kavala @ 1.867

Distance: 2.31
49.00% Serbian_new
22.20% Bosniak_Tuzla
09.00% Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
08.60% Bulgarian_Burgas
05.20% Romanian_Muntenia
04.80% Turk_Kardzhali-Alevi
00.80% She
00.40% Bulgarian_Ruse


I'm almost identical to the Serbian sample, the only difference is my higher West Asian, East Asian and Siberian ancestry and the lower Baltic.

https://i.imgur.com/6qjqXO9.png

[JamesBond007]

And I also agree that K15 is as good, or better in some cases. I can give examples with my own results later.

ok, sounds good to me , thanks.

[Luke35]

Okay, so South Dutch is an excellent proxy for my maternal ancestry. My mom scores it as number 1 population on K13 and K15, and on G25 too, they label that population as Belgian on there.

Also, from extensive examination of my paternal side, including the unprecedented level of accuracy you can achieve using G25 when you, and also one of your parents, have official coordinates, is VERY Hungarian.


Here is my DNA Genics vs. Vahaduo K13. And my GEDmatch split is the same as here on Vahaduo:

DNA Genics
Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Southeast_English + 50% Szekely @ 1.357
2 50% Szekely + 50% Southwest_English @ 1.587
3 50% English + 50% Szekely @ 1.647
4 50% South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster + 50% West_Scottish @ 1.679
5 50% Scottish + 50% South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster @ 1.707
6 50% Southeast_English + 50% Csango_Gymes @ 1.788
7 50% Scottish + 50% Serbian_new @ 1.805
8 50% West_Scottish + 50% Serbian_new @ 1.812
9 50% South_Dutch + 50% Hungarian @ 1.892
10 50% Bulgarian_Dupnitsa + 50% Orcadian @ 1.922

Versus:

Vahaduo
Target: MrG
Distance: 1.5884% / 1.58835321 | ADC: 0.25x
56.0 South_Dutch
44.0 Hungarian



Now take a look at K15, I get split exactly 50/50 South Dutch-Hungarian, across all platforms (I've only included Vahadou but it's the same on GEDmatch and DNA Genetics). Even fits me as 50/50 West German-Hungarian:

Vahaduo
Target: MrG
Distance: 3.9603% / 3.96032196
50.0 Hungarian
50.0 South_Dutch

Target: MrG
Distance: 3.9837% / 3.98368463
50.6 West_German
49.4 Hungarian

[Scandal]

https://i.imgur.com/6qjqXO9.png

How do you do this? You paid?

[JamesBond007]

How do you do this? You paid?

Yes, it is rather cheap if I remember correctly.

[Luke35]

Okay, so South Dutch is an excellent proxy for my maternal ancestry. My mom scores it as number 1 population on K13 and K15, and on G25 too, they label that population as Belgian on there.

Also, from extensive examination of my paternal side, including the unprecedented level of accuracy you can achieve using G25 when you, and also one of your parents, have official coordinates, is VERY Hungarian.


Here is my DNA Genics vs. Vahaduo K13. And my GEDmatch split is the same as here on Vahaduo:

DNA Genics
Using 2 populations approximation
1 50% Southeast_English + 50% Szekely @ 1.357
2 50% Szekely + 50% Southwest_English @ 1.587
3 50% English + 50% Szekely @ 1.647
4 50% South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster + 50% West_Scottish @ 1.679
5 50% Scottish + 50% South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster @ 1.707
6 50% Southeast_English + 50% Csango_Gymes @ 1.788
7 50% Scottish + 50% Serbian_new @ 1.805
8 50% West_Scottish + 50% Serbian_new @ 1.812
9 50% South_Dutch + 50% Hungarian @ 1.892
10 50% Bulgarian_Dupnitsa + 50% Orcadian @ 1.922

Versus:

Vahaduo
Target: MrG
Distance: 1.5884% / 1.58835321 | ADC: 0.25x
56.0 South_Dutch
44.0 Hungarian



Now take a look at K15, I get split exactly 50/50 South Dutch-Hungarian, across all platforms (I've only included Vahadou but it's the same on GEDmatch and DNA Genetics). Even fits me as 50/50 West German-Hungarian:

Vahaduo
Target: MrG
Distance: 3.9603% / 3.96032196
50.0 Hungarian
50.0 South_Dutch

Target: MrG
Distance: 3.9837% / 3.98368463
50.6 West_German
49.4 Hungarian

One notable thing is that the distances are high on K15, but I think that they tend to be higher for everyone on that calc. The key is that the splits look good.

[JamesBond007]

One notable thing is that the distances are high on K15, but I think that they tend to be higher for everyone on that calc. The key is that the splits look good.

I see

[vbnetkhio]

I think DNA Genics is the best but I might be thinking that because it is telling me I'm more closely related to the English than the Irish.


it isn't telling you that. these aren't some kind of deep analysis of your dna. these are just oracles, comapring your k13 results to the reference English and Irish k13 averages.

gedmatch k13 English and Irish averages:

popNorth_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedR ed_SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOcean ianNortheast_AfricanSub-Saharan
Southeast_English50.5223.2713.984.465.090.091.080. 040.060.620.620.120.04
Southwest_English51.9822.1015.104.922.700.950.880. 120.050.150.590.280.16
Irish52.2324.0212.396.321.410.821.090.090.030.990. 330.180.10
the Irish average is a little bit more similar to you because of the higher West Asian, so you get it as the closest population.

in admixture studio there are these 3 too, plus this English average:
popNorth_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedR ed_SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOcean ianNortheast_AfricanSub-Saharan
English49.9623.9813.575.833.30.620.850.130.220.350 .380.130.13

as you can see, it's even more similar to your results, so in admixture studio you get it as the closest pop instead.