New Xiongnu data indicates the Turkic origin and relativity with Hungarians

[Kaspias]

In an effort to characterize the people who composed the groups known as the Xiongnu, nuclear and whole mitochondrial DNA data were generated from the skeletal remains of 52 individuals excavated from the Tamir Ulaan Khoshuu (TUK) cemetery in Central Mongolia. This burial site, attributed to the Xiongnu period, was used from the first century BC to the first century AD. Kinship analyses were conducted using autosomal and Y-chromosomal DNA markers along with complete sequences of the mitochondrial genome. These analyses suggested close kin relationships between many individuals. Nineteen such individuals composed a large family spanning five generations. Within this family, we determined that a woman was of especially high status; this is a novel insight into the structure and hierarchy of societies from the Xiongnu period. Moreover, our findings confirmed that the Xiongnu had a strongly admixed mitochondrial and Y-chromosome gene pools and revealed a significant western component in the Xiongnu group studied. Using a fine-scale approach (haplotype instead of haplogroup-level information), we propose Scytho-Siberians as ancestors of the Xiongnu and Huns as their descendants.




TABLE (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f0J6spuP8OiR4L1u02AgJlhdRBNOUVd9xhNYtqVztbs/edit?fbclid=IwAR2oo2JjEV-MbUsax5iEgqDtd3XjFArdlYbFG4yfqxQtOeGQhWYkGNZ1Q4M#g id=254687382)
SOURCE (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00439-020-02209-4?fbclid=IwAR2aJ0SKI7WnF1U0ehOAqEqms4MjAPdy93rFcbP 6inmrZSP6bhfk6LNSbnA)

Observed haplogroups that SNPs are tested


R-Z2125 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2125/)
R-Z95 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z94/)
Q-M120 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-M120/)


Autosomal data of Scytho-Siberians from G25.

Distance to: Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA
0.04804137 Bashkir
0.05933492 Uzbek
0.06077576 Tatar_Siberian

Distance to: Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA
0.04341559 Bashkir
0.04764879 Tatar_Siberian
0.07581902 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye

Distance to: Scythian_RUS_Urals
0.05322550 Bashkir
0.07747167 Tatar_Siberian
0.08538744 Uzbek




I have made a comparison between Q individuals and me in order to see mutation rates in STR values although we don't get the same SNP. What is interesting that they are closer to me than most of the living Q individuals.

https://i.ibb.co/n0MVWFy/Kaspias.png

[Kaspias]

Worth to mention here that Arpad is also in the match list.

https://i.ibb.co/4psXYFf/PC1.png

And there is an overlap between Xiongnu, Avar, medieval Hungarians and modern(b. 1700) Yakut.

https://i.ibb.co/rfzbtJd/PC2.png

[Leto]

Delete your thread. It already exists:D
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?329061-Xiongnu-Hunnu-of-Mongolia

[Turul Karom]

Magyar vagyok, magyar!

https://i.imgur.com/Woc1zpQ.jpg


Magyarnak születtem,

https://i.imgur.com/0Lkk2sZ.jpg


Magyar nótát dalolt a dajka felettem,

https://i.imgur.com/X2Ghqld.jpg


Magyarul tanított imádkozni anyám

https://i.imgur.com/GDGpooV.jpg


És szeretni téged,

https://i.imgur.com/7Q7uYlJ.jpg


gyönyörű

https://a4.pbase.com/o2/38/6338/1/137363135.WTzt8wWo.DSC_4447copy.jpg


szép

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeatures/live/624_351/images/live/p0/23/y9/p023y9z9.jpg


hazám!!!

https://i.imgur.com/LIZ1qzf.jpg

[Dunai]

This is a highly fascinating find, which completely overthrows the theory of East Asian/Mongolid origin of the Xiongnu, and rather links them with Central Asian and South Siberian steppes. Now I do wonder what is the origin of Modern Mongolians, who occupy the former lands of the Xiongnu and the Huns, who seem to have been a pretty Europid type of people, linked with the Eastern Iranians.

[Proto-Shaman]

This is a highly fascinating find, which completely overthrows the theory of East Asian/Mongolid origin of the Xiongnu, and rather links them with Central Asian and South Siberian steppes. Now I do wonder what is the origin of Modern Mongolians, who occupy the former lands of the Xiongnu and the Huns, who seem to have been a pretty Europid type of people, linked with the Eastern Iranians.
Eastern Iranians are assimilated Volga Turks. Already proven by autosomal data (see: Steppe_MLBA).

[Dunai]

Eastern Iranians are assimilated Volga Turks. Already proven by autosomal data (see: Steppe_MLBA).

You completely misunderstood my statement: I was speaking of Ancient Eastern Iranians, like the Indo-Aryans and Scythians, the original Steppe population. They predated Volga Turks with a few millennia.

[Kaspias]

This is a highly fascinating find, which completely overthrows the theory of East Asian/Mongolid origin of the Xiongnu, and rather links them with Central Asian and South Siberian steppes. Now I do wonder what is the origin of Modern Mongolians, who occupy the former lands of the Xiongnu and the Huns, who seem to have been a pretty Europid type of people, linked with the Eastern Iranians.

Separation of Turkic, Korean and Mongolian roots to Manchuria. Mongols were not living in today's Western Mongolia during Xiongnu but only in Eastern and Northern Mongolia. The Xiongnu population was a confederation and consisted of various ethnicities. In the case of Turkic, besides consisting of the majority of the confederation, the Yeniseian elite absorbed among that group afterward. The names seen in families were already Turkic when Huns appeared.

In addition, Modern Mongols are not linked with Eastern Iranic. Formation of Turkic dates to EBA which is long before Xiongnu. So, Eastern Iranic identification has no role here. What they caused is boosting W. Eurasian in few Turkic communities thanks to assimilating and mixing but even this is speculation. If we are going to accept this claim as truth, then Oghuz's(not Uzes though) are a decent example of such a mix.

[ShereKhan]

Anyone else getting second-hand embarrassment every time german white boy Turul larps turanic?

[Bender1999]

Anyone else getting second-hand embarrassment every time german white boy Turul larps turanic?

No, did someone ask you?

[Chelubey]

https://turkipedia.fandom.com/wiki/Andronovo_culture

Consensus is not, however, the hallmark of all responses. According to Italian linguist and professor emeritus Mario Alinei:

The "Andronovo [and] the whole cultural sequence that precedes it, from Srednyi Stog to the Pit Grave, Catacomb Grave, and Timber Grave cultures [...], can only be seen as expressions of an already developed Turkic branch of the Altaic population, originating in Central Asia in Paleolithic times."



On 7th of December 2009 a scientific announcement has been put forward by Mario Alinei in which he speaks of an "overwhelming linguistic evidence.. of exclusively Turkic loanwords related to horse terminology" in Uralic and all Indo-European languages of eastern Europe that can be seen as an indication that horse domestication is a fundamental Turkic innovation and cannot be associated with the spread of Indo-European languages




The German Indology professor Hermann Berger, who is known for his Burushaski studies, found striking etymological matches between Turkic (Altaic) and Sanskrit horse words.[20] Berger conludes, that the numerous Turkic borrowings in the Dard dialects of the Indo-Aryan family (e.g. Kalasha, Nuristani) show that cultural traffic with the Turkic north was lively at all times.



Skt. kulāha = Turk. qula 'brown, grey', colours of the body parts of a horse
Skt. kokāha = Turk. kök 'roan, pale, yellowish grey', colour of a horse
Skt. khońgāha/khuńgāha = Turk. qońɣur 'red/black', colour of a horse
Skt. serāha = Turk. sarï, sarïɣ 'pale, blonde, yellow', colour of a horse mane
Skt. halāha = Turk. ala, hilā, alağa 'colorful' (of a horse)
Skt. vollāha = Turk. būrul, pūrul 'with mixed hair' (of a horse), compare Tatar burlï 'mousecoloured' and burlu 'grey (horse)'. Skt. vollāha may have resulted from an assimilation of proto-Turkic *borlāha
Skt. urāha = Turk. örüg 'white, bright (horse)'
Skt. triyūha = Turk. toru��, torī�� 'chestnut, redbrown (horse)' > Burushaski turūɣ
Skt. surūhaka = Turk. sur 'donkeycoloured horse, grey (of a horse)' < *suru, directly preserved in Kyrgyz suručaq 'grey sparrow' and Tatar sørø 'grey'

Thus, the Italian linguist V. Pisani (1974, p.14)[21] assumed that "Protosanskrit was the language of a ruling class composed of Turkic-speaking riders of the southern Russian steppes and priests of Caucasian origin." The same view is shared by the German linguist K. H. Schmidt (1980, p.94).[

[Turul Karom]

Anyone else getting second-hand embarrassment every time german white boy Turul larps turanic?

Impaler is a Romanian on TA who values his own Hunnic input. He's matched with a Hunnic grave. Are you aware of the importance of Turkic cultures in founding areas of Romania and the genetic input there? Or are you just another sock?

Every Turkic group clusters next to neighbors who are not Turkic. Anatolian Turks cluster close to Kurds, Uyghurs, cluster close to non-Turkic East Asians, etc. I've never said anything about not clustering close to Germans or not being "white." I consider Hungarians white as well as Turkish people white but white means nothing to Nordicists who care about blue eyes and blond hair and Scandinavian origins over all. I do not have blue eyes or blond hair, but obviously I will look some kind of European. Being white is fine as it's not an incorrect description, but I don't care if we're seen as white or not because I am more interested in focusing on Turkic culture and founding ethnic history. I match with one Hunnic grave and three conquering Hungarian graves. I share DNA with the KAROS III grave, specifically.

Many, if not most Turanids are "white." Are Turkics only allowed to be some Sinic stereotype? Other Europeans isolated Hungary in the past in order to justify various prejudices (Hungarophobia) or for practical means post-WW1 like carving up the nation because we are not "European" enough to keep the land. The identity and am only concerned with being is Hungarian. It's obvious that Hungarians today are seen as practically white by most people, especially given the EU who calls us so now, but in a very derogatory way. They use these ideas to destroy ethnic identities so everyone can be absorbed into their burgeoning Brussels empire.

But this is important because many justify their past actions against us with saying we are both foreign and do not have right to the land, but now in 2020 that we need to fall in line and listen and that we are "too white." Only now in the west are we "too white" because we protect our borders. so that the European Union might help "diversify" what they see as a backwards country. However, "Hungarian" is an ethnicity that begins outside of the borders of "Europe" from whence we started our journey to be a part of who we are today. For better or worse, here we are, and in our genetics our ancestors remain! But does that mean we don't belong in Europe? Of course not.

White? Yellow? Asian? European?

Simply MAGYAR.

[ShereKhan]

I

DIdn't read.You are 99%+ european and share 99%+ of your genome with other europeans, realistically you share more of your dna with bananas than with magyar or turkic people.If you are turkic then more than 3 quarters of europeans are turkic too.

[Leto]

Impaler is a Romanian on TA who values his own Hunnic input. He's matched with a Hunnic grave. Are you aware of the importance of Turkic cultures in founding areas of Romania and the genetic input there? Or are you just another sock?

Every Turkic group clusters next to neighbors who are not Turkic. Anatolian Turks cluster close to Kurds, Uyghurs, cluster close to non-Turkic East Asians, etc. I've never said anything about not clustering close to Germans or not being "white." I consider Hungarians white as well as Turkish people white but white means nothing to Nordicists who care about blue eyes and blond hair and Scandinavian origins over all. I do not have blue eyes or blond hair, but obviously I will look some kind of European. Being white is fine as it's not an incorrect description, but I don't care if we're seen as white or not because I am more interested in focusing on Turkic culture and founding ethnic history. I match with one Hunnic grave and three conquering Hungarian graves. I share DNA with the KAROS III grave, specifically.

Many, if not most Turanids are "white." Are Turkics only allowed to be some Sinic stereotype? Other Europeans isolated Hungary in the past in order to justify various prejudices (Hungarophobia) or for practical means post-WW1 like carving up the nation because we are not "European" enough to keep the land. The identity and am only concerned with being is Hungarian. It's obvious that Hungarians today are seen as practically white by most people, especially given the EU who calls us so now, but in a very derogatory way. They use these ideas to destroy ethnic identities so everyone can be absorbed into their burgeoning Brussels empire.

But this is important because many justify their past actions against us with saying we are both foreign and do not have right to the land, but now in 2020 that we need to fall in line and listen and that we are "too white." Only now in the west are we "too white" because we protect our borders. so that the European Union might help "diversify" what they see as a backwards country. However, "Hungarian" is an ethnicity that begins outside of the borders of "Europe" from whence we started our journey to be a part of who we are today. For better or worse, here we are, and in our genetics our ancestors remain! But does that mean we don't belong in Europe? Of course not.

White? Yellow? Asian? European?

Simply MAGYAR.
No one in Europe today seriously thinks Hungarians are not white enough. I don't know what time period you're living in. Nordicism is irrelevant, not even all Germans or English look literally Nordic, let alone French, Italians, Iberians, etc. Turks are not considered European but Hunagrians are for all intents and purposes.

[Leto]

DIdn't read.You are 99%+ european and share 99%+ of your genome with other europeans, realistically you share more of your dna with bananas than with magyar or turkic people.If you are turkic then more than 3 quarters of europeans are turkic too.
Hungarians are not even linguistically Turkic if we leave genetics aside. It's a pointless discussion. There's nearly zero mutual intelligibility between Hungarian and any Turkic language. Go on vacation to Turkey being Hungarian and see how long you can get by without English.

[Turul Karom]

DIdn't read.You are 99%+ european and share 99%+ of your genome with other europeans, realistically you share more of your dna with bananas than with magyar or turkic people.If you are turkic then more than 3 quarters of europeans are turkic too.

If you aren't going to read, then why even have the dialogue? I guess I can say whatever I'd want then if you're just not going to read it with good faith. Since you somehow know my name and use the same talking points of other generic anti-Turanists, it is clear you're a sock of someone banned.


No one in Europe today seriously thinks Hungarians are not white enough. I don't know what time period you're living in. Nordicism is irrelevant, not even all Germans or English look literally Nordic, let alone French, Italians, Iberians, etc. Turks are not considered European but Hunagrians are for all intents and purposes.

You didn't read what I typed. I said that there is great irony that there was a time when we were not white enough, but we are now "too white" and need to bear to carry the burdens of the EU's quotas. Also, I said that Turks are white, but we are not talking about European. They might as well be too, if "white" grants "European," but these are unimportant things anymore as everyone just says things interchangeably to carve away people they don't like who would otherwise fit their criteria.


Hungarians are not even linguistically Turkic if we leave genetics aside. It's a pointless discussion. There's nearly zero mutual intelligibility between Hungarian and any Turkic language. Go on vacation to Turkey being Hungarian and see how long you can get by without English.

Turkic Council says our languages are close, and I did go to Turkey. We shared several words that were used daily, and I was surprised to see how many in-practice things I could understand. Mostly around shopping, food, and clothing materials like the word for cotton (pamut).

Try making the same argument with the Uralic languages, like going to Finland and trying to communicate without English. You would find the same issues, and your argument dissolves. Imagine if I used that as an argument; a Hungarian would understand Finns just as "poorly."

[Ion Basescul]

Impaler is a Romanian on TA who values his own Hunnic input. He's matched with a Hunnic grave. Are you aware of the importance of Turkic cultures in founding areas of Romania and the genetic input there? Or are you just another sock?

Every Turkic group clusters next to neighbors who are not Turkic. Anatolian Turks cluster close to Kurds, Uyghurs, cluster close to non-Turkic East Asians, etc. I've never said anything about not clustering close to Germans or not being "white." I consider Hungarians white as well as Turkish people white but white means nothing to Nordicists who care about blue eyes and blond hair and Scandinavian origins over all. I do not have blue eyes or blond hair, but obviously I will look some kind of European. Being white is fine as it's not an incorrect description, but I don't care if we're seen as white or not because I am more interested in focusing on Turkic culture and founding ethnic history. I match with one Hunnic grave and three conquering Hungarian graves. I share DNA with the KAROS III grave, specifically.

Many, if not most Turanids are "white." Are Turkics only allowed to be some Sinic stereotype? Other Europeans isolated Hungary in the past in order to justify various prejudices (Hungarophobia) or for practical means post-WW1 like carving up the nation because we are not "European" enough to keep the land. The identity and am only concerned with being is Hungarian. It's obvious that Hungarians today are seen as practically white by most people, especially given the EU who calls us so now, but in a very derogatory way. They use these ideas to destroy ethnic identities so everyone can be absorbed into their burgeoning Brussels empire.

But this is important because many justify their past actions against us with saying we are both foreign and do not have right to the land, but now in 2020 that we need to fall in line and listen and that we are "too white." Only now in the west are we "too white" because we protect our borders. so that the European Union might help "diversify" what they see as a backwards country. However, "Hungarian" is an ethnicity that begins outside of the borders of "Europe" from whence we started our journey to be a part of who we are today. For better or worse, here we are, and in our genetics our ancestors remain! But does that mean we don't belong in Europe? Of course not.

White? Yellow? Asian? European?

Simply MAGYAR.

People from Romania and Moldova score even more East Asian/Siberian than people in Hungary and you are right that even if these are tiny amounts within our whole admixture, they are still part of us and our nation's history. They shouldn't get brushed under the carpet.

[Turul Karom]

People from Romania and Moldova score even more East Asian/Siberian than people in Hungary and you are right that even if these are tiny amounts within our whole admixture, they are still part of us and our nation's history. They shouldn't get brushed under the carpet.

I think the specifically East Asian could be carry-over from the Cumans that had more East Asian admixture than the conquering Hungarians. As seen in the study here, arriving Hungarians and Huns had more Central and Western Asian components. Although I score East Asian DNA, my Central Asian scores are always higher. I have noticed that for calculators that separate East and Central Asian ancestry, Hungarians score more Central Asian and Romanians tend to have more East Asian.

What do you get for lactose intolerance? If I may ask.

I am happy to hear that you are one of the few who seem to understand that there is an implicit attempt to push Turkicness under the carpet in some circles. It is nothing to be ashamed of for Romanians.

[ShereKhan]

If you aren't going to read, then why even have the dialogue?

When you enter the madhouse do you sit and listen to what the lunatics babble about?


Since you somehow know my name

It's on the left side of the screen, you know in big red letters, you would see it too once you stop perma-squinting your eyes, it ain't making you look more turanic


I said that there is great irony that there was a time when we were not white enough

This legit never happened, it was the magyars who were not considered white but you have nothing to do with magyars except that at some point in time they subdued and forced your european ancestors to learn their language.

Imagine a chinese guy with possibly 1 or 2 european snp's calling himself european, that's how ridiculous you sound. You share 50% of your DNA with bananas that's infinitely more than the 0 NULL NADA you share with turkic people, matter of fact next time you and your hungarian homeboys go to Kurultaj I want you to dress like this

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/B4M9EX/group-of-people-dress-up-as-a-banana-bestival-isle-of-wight-uk-2008-B4M9EX.jpg

[Leto]

You didn't read what I typed. I said that there is great irony that there was a time when we were not white enough, but we are now "too white" and need to bear to carry the burdens of the EU's quotas. Also, I said that Turks are white, but we are not talking about European. They might as well be too, if "white" grants "European," but these are unimportant things anymore as everyone just says things interchangeably to carve away people they don't like who would otherwise fit their criteria.

I don't wanna go deeper into the whiteness thing but I can tell you that white normally does mean European and Muslim West Asians are not seen as white in most circumstances (including by themselves). Perhaps some Christian minorities in Northern West Asia may represent a "gray area" but generally the Middle East and North Africa are a whole different thing in popular consciousness.

[Ion Basescul]

I think the specifically East Asian could be carry-over from the Cumans that had more East Asian admixture than the conquering Hungarians. As seen in the study here, arriving Hungarians and Huns had more Central and Western Asian components. Although I score East Asian DNA, my Central Asian scores are always higher. I have noticed that for calculators that separate East and Central Asian ancestry, Hungarians score more Central Asian and Romanians tend to have more East Asian.

What do you get for lactose intolerance? If I may ask.

I am happy to hear that you are one of the few who seem to understand that there is an implicit attempt to push Turkicness under the carpet in some circles. It is nothing to be ashamed of for Romanians.

It could come from Cumans or even older waves of migrations. It would be interesting to see how medieval folk from these lands score.
I used to think that it could come from Tatars, but I manage my family's kits on MyHeritage and a couple others from my connections, and none of them get any kind of Tatar, Central Asian or Turkish matches. So the East Asian/Siberian connection should be really old. Szeklers score the most East Asian/Siberian out of everyone in this region, so maybe it's connected to the source population that mixed with them. But what it proves for certain is that Romanians were pretty much always on these lands and didn't come from Bulgaria or Serbia, as some alternative theories suggest. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this input, just like the people from there.

What are the SNPs for lactose intolerance?

[Turul Karom]

When you enter the madhouse do you sit and listen to what the lunatics babble about?

It's on the left side of the screen, you know in big red letters, you would see it too once you stop perma-squinting your eyes, it ain't making you look more turanic

This legit never happened, it was the magyars who were not considered white but you have nothing to do with magyars except that at some point in time they subdued and forced your european ancestors to learn their language.

Imagine a chinese guy with possibly 1 or 2 european snp's calling himself european, that's how ridiculous you sound. You share 50% of your DNA with bananas that's infinitely more than the 0 NULL NADA you share with turkic people, matter of fact next time you and your hungarian homeboys go to Kurultaj I want you to dress like this

A Chinese person did not have their civilization founded by Europeans. Having conqueror ancestry (which I and several Hungarians do) makes a difference.

Also, it certainly did happen, as British diplomat Harold Nicholson used it as an excuse to carve up Hungary.

"Reminiscing over Hungary's punishment at the Paris Peace Conference, the British diplomat Harold Nicolson noted: "I confess that I regarded, and still regard,that Turanian tribe with acute distaste. Like their cousins the Turks, they had destroyed much and created nothing." This Allied participant at the Paris Peace Conference did more than just express his unflattering opinion of the Hungarian people. He captured the biased political atmosphere of the international setting in which the historical Hungarian state met its death. (32)"

Source: (32) Borsody, op. cit., pp. 26-27.




I don't wanna go deeper into the whiteness thing but I can tell you that white normally does mean European and Muslim West Asians are not seen as white in most circumstances (including themselves). Perhaps some Christian minorities in Northern West Asia may represent a "gray area" but generally the Middle East and North Africa are a whole different thing in popular consciousness.

You and I have actually had this dialogue before, and you always dodge that point. Clearly Hungarians are seen now as "white" (unless being trolled by people), yet somehow Christian minorities are the only ones who can pass in this magical "grey area" in Anatolia or Western Asia. As though it is a laundry list of behaviors, genetics, and religion that are needed. I hear lots of people say every flavor of Caucasian is white until they're suddenly not. With such inconsistency, do you really wonder why I (or other Hungarians) don't care about being called white or not....

[ShereKhan]

A Chinese person did not have their civilization founded by Europeans. Having conqueror ancestry (which I and several Hungarians do) makes a difference.

You don't have conqueror ancestry, you have conquered ancestry, you are 99% conquered to be precise

Magyars did not found any civilization, they were some illiterate bunch of steppe savages with no culture aside from raiding unguarded villages, like the brit Harold Nicolson you quoted said "they had destroyed much and created nothing".

[Turul Karom]

It could come from Cumans or even older waves of migrations. It would be interesting to see how medieval folk from these lands score.
I used to think that it could come from Tatars, but I manage my family's kits on MyHeritage and a couple others from my connections, and none of them get any kind of Tatar, Central Asian or Turkish matches. So the East Asian/Siberian connection should be really old. Szeklers score the most East Asian/Siberian out of everyone in this region, so maybe it's connected to the source population that mixed with them. But what it proves for certain is that Romanians were pretty much always on these lands and didn't come from Bulgaria or Serbia, as some alternative theories suggest. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this input, just like the people from there.

What are the SNPs for lactose intolerance?

Could come from many kinds of arriving Turkic peoples, but Cumans would be my best guess given the foundational legacy of Romania. Maybe some Hungarian that filtered through to the population there today like pachinko machine.

Lactose intolerance is here, if you have the raw data. I have quite an uncommon one in Europeans, apparently. Look for rs4988235 That's how I found mine; I don't have a 23 & me health data, but I posted it as reference for %s:


https://i.imgur.com/3yhde8z.png

https://i.imgur.com/WrNsCS5.jpg

[Ion Basescul]

It could come from Cumans or even older waves of migrations. It would be interesting to see how medieval folk from these lands score.

Actually, now that I think about this, we do have 2 studies about 14 medieval folk from Romania, which come from Constanta county.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37760-8#Sec2
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0193578#sec012

[Turul Karom]

You don't have conqueror ancestry, you have conquered ancestry, you are 99% conquered to be precise[/B]

Magyars did not found any civilization, they were some illiterate bunch of steppe savages with no culture aside from raiding unguarded villages, like the brit Harold Nicolson you quoted said "they had destroyed much and created nothing".

You don't know the %s because you don't read them. I understand that as a sock, your gut is to just troll.

Harold Nicolson said it in the 20th century about the current Hungarian population.

Also, our ancestors were far from illiterate. Our alphabet is derived Old Turkic. Even Western academics agree on this.

https://i.imgur.com/FfHh3Z8.png
https://i.imgur.com/wW4Ydms.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q8xD3kl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xWzlZJA.gif

[Ion Basescul]

Could come from many kinds of arriving Turkic peoples, but Cumans would be my best guess given the foundational legacy of Romania. Maybe some Hungarian that filtered through to the population there today like pachinko machine.

Lactose intolerance is here, if you have the raw data. I have quite an uncommon one in Europeans, apparently. Look for rs4988235 That's how I found mine; I don't have a 23 & me health data, but I posted it as reference for %s:


https://i.imgur.com/3yhde8z.png

https://i.imgur.com/WrNsCS5.jpg

Hmm, both parents and ergo my brother and I are GG, but we drink milk, kefir, ayran and use raw milk with oats and cereals daily. Not sure how this intolerance is supposed to manifest itself. Maybe the regular milk from the store that we drink is somehow processed to be tolerable.

https://i.imgur.com/4gVeKiH.png
https://i.imgur.com/WtyRxgh.png
https://i.imgur.com/6VBk6UO.png
https://i.imgur.com/eSDSaxT.png

[ShereKhan]

You don't know the %s because you don't read them

You're not fooling anyone,you plot west of Austria, it means you are not even close to being .1% "magyar" *insert random made up turanic term here* "turkic",some pseudo-genetic website like mytrueancestry assigned you 1 or 2 snp's as being shared with magyars (out of hundreds of millions)
Your european ancestors did not have the same choice as you do today, yet you willingly choose to be servile, you willingly choose to be conquered by an extinct population you have genetically nothing to do.

The moment you prove you're even 0.1% magyar/turkic I'll eat my shoes soles

[Turul Karom]

Hmm, both parents and ergo my brother and I are GG, but we drink milk, kefir, ayran and use raw milk with oats and cereals daily. Not sure how this intolerance is supposed to manifest itself. Maybe the regular milk from the store that we drink is somehow processed to be tolerable.

Interesting. Maybe you have trained yourself some how, or you could be drinking a kind of milk that has had the lactose reduced or removed. Regardless, you are all in the same boat as I am of having a relatively uncommon (for Europeans at least) genetic trait regarding dairy. Do you eat it often? I have avoided it for over 10 years now.

The intolerance stems from lactose, so fermenting and other means to remove the lactose will allow those who are otherwise unable to process milk to be able to use the calories without exploding in the process. The same process happens when aging cheese to make it "harder." However, if you eat raw milk, then that will have lots of lactose, so I cannot explain that.

[Ion Basescul]

Interesting. Maybe you have trained yourself some how, or you could be drinking a kind of milk that has had the lactose reduced or removed. Regardless, you are all in the same boat as I am of having a relatively uncommon (for Europeans at least) genetic trait regarding dairy. Do you eat it often? I have avoided it for over 10 years now.

The intolerance stems from lactose, so fermenting and other means to remove the lactose will allow those who are otherwise unable to process milk to be able to use the calories without exploding in the process. The same process happens when aging cheese to make it "harder." However, if you eat raw milk, then that will have lots of lactose, so I cannot explain that.

Perhaps like twice a week. In the morning I always have cold oats/cereals/granola with either water, milk or yogurt for diversity purposes, so that I don't get bored of them. My diet otherwise contains lactose from white cheese, cream and the like, but those are definitely fermented.

[Leto]

You and I have actually had this dialogue before, and you always dodge that point. Clearly Hungarians are seen now as "white" (unless being trolled by people), yet somehow Christian minorities are the only ones who can pass in this magical "grey area" in Anatolia or Western Asia. As though it is a laundry list of behaviors, genetics, and religion that are needed. I hear lots of people say every flavor of Caucasian is white until they're suddenly not. With such inconsistency, do you really wonder why I (or other Hungarians) don't care about being called white or not....
Exceptions prove the rule though. A few ambiguous or borderline cases do not render an entire category meaningless. Many colors exist as a mixture of other colors but that doesn't mean there is no blue or yellow. It's an old trick actually. "What do you mean by white? What about that Sicilian? What about that half Arab guy with blue eyes? What about the Sami, the Maltese, etc". However I do agree that ethnic identity is better than color, especially in countries where this tradition of talking about blacks, whites, etc. is foreign and relatively recent. Not sure how it's gonna develope with all the mass migration and increasing intermixing of ethnic and racial groups.

[Turul Karom]

You're not fooling anyone,you plot west of Austria, it means you are not even close to being .1% "magyar" *insert random made up turanic term here* "turkic",some pseudo-genetic website like mytrueancestry assigned you 1 or 2 snp's as being shared with magyars (out of hundreds of millions)
Your european ancestors did not have the same choice as you do today, yet you willingly choose to be servile, you willingly choose to be conquered by an extinct population you have genetically nothing to do.

The moment you prove you're even 0.1% magyar/turkic I'll eat my shoes soles

https://i.ibb.co/KNm9xYs/Hungary-Single2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B3GaWTk.png

https://i.imgur.com/R8hlLYl.jpg


Exceptions prove the rule though. A few ambiguous or borderline cases do not render an entire category meaningless. Many colors exist as a mixture of other colors but that doesn't mean there is no blue or yellow. It's an old trick actually. "What do you mean by white? What about that Sicilian? What about that half Arab guy with blue eyes? What about the Sami, the Maltese, etc". However I do agree that ethnic identity is better than color, especially in countries where this tradition of talking about blacks, whites, etc. is foreign and relatively recent. Not sure how it's gonna develope with all the mass migration and increasing intermixing of ethnic and racial groups.

Hey, no need to sell me on that. What you seem to fail to understand is that this was used as a trick against Hungarians multiple times in the last 100 years, both to say "you are alien; give up more land" and also, "you are a nation that is too white; be more diverse." Hence, it is a pointless trick used against Hungarians. Ergo, I don't care about it, and neither should other Hungarians because the only way to win the "white or not" game is not to play. Ethnic/tribal identity is more important in a practical and cultural sense.

The argument you're referring to "Loki's wager." If you're trying to debate if Turkish people are white or not, well, I don't think most of them care very much. Just like Hungarians. Regardless, I would say they are white. Since you are correct that ethnic identity is better that saying black/white/yellow/red/whatever, we can at least agree on this.

[ShereKhan]

https://i.imgur.com/B3GaWTk.png



The same image older than windows 95 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Post some modern oracles from gedmatch like eurogenes ,what commercial company did you test with and when or more precisely what is the snp count?

[Leto]

https://i.ibb.co/KNm9xYs/Hungary-Single2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B3GaWTk.png

https://i.imgur.com/R8hlLYl.jpg

I've never seen your Eurogenes K13 & K15. You always prefer some obscure calculators that presumably serve your agenda.

[Jana]

I've never seen your Eurogenes K13 & K15. You always prefer some obscure calculators that presumably serve your agenda.

I did. You need to use search function, he did not hide anything.

[ShereKhan]

I did. You need to use search function, he did not hide anything.

THIS is his eurogenes?


Population
North_Atlantic 38.97
Baltic 26.29
West_Med 12.73
West_Asian 8.19
East_Med 9.39
Red_Sea 1.45
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.66
Siberian 1.10
Amerindian 0.54
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.68
Sub-Saharan -

Virtually all continental euros score around the same east asian and siberian noise values. There is no modern calculator or commercial test to suggest this guy has had magyar let alone turanic ancestors yet he clings to mytrueancestry like the gospel just because it assigned him 1 out of hundreds of millions of snp's as magyar.

99% conquered, 0% conqueror

[Proto-Shaman]

You completely misunderstood my statement: I was speaking of Ancient Eastern Iranians, like the Indo-Aryans and Scythians, the original Steppe population. They predated Volga Turks with a few millennia.
I didn't misunderstand you, and you understand very good. There were no predating Iranians. Iranians are just Turkic sperms lost in Semitics space (aka. Neolithic_Iranianians / 50% ANE). Bronze Age Central Asia belonged to Finno-Ugric West Siberian Hunter Gatherers and Scythians spoke Turkic per excelence. Everybody understand each other here. No hiding, no rumours. Turan will win. Sieg Heil.

[Proto-Shaman]

https://i.ibb.co/KNm9xYs/Hungary-Single2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B3GaWTk.png

https://i.imgur.com/R8hlLYl.jpg

Hey, no need to sell me on that. What you seem to fail to understand is that this was used as a trick against Hungarians multiple times in the last 100 years, both to say "you are alien; give up more land" and also, "you are a nation that is too white; be more diverse." Hence, it is a pointless trick used against Hungarians. Ergo, I don't care about it, and neither should other Hungarians because the only way to win the "white or not" game is not to play. Ethnic/tribal identity is more important in a practical and cultural sense.

The argument you're referring to "Loki's wager." If you're trying to debate if Turkish people are white or not, well, I don't think most of them care very much. Just like Hungarians. Regardless, I would say they are white. Since you are correct that ethnic identity is better that saying black/white/yellow/red/whatever, we can at least agree on this.
What I find quite interesting is that most studies don't pay attention to Turkic PCA models, they pick it as it serves their agenda, like Leto.