Hungarian gedmatch result / Universe's gedmatch relatives

[Scandal]

She's related to me on gedmatch. She's from my hometown I believe(southern Alföld), it has yet to be confirmed though. She has a surname that is common in my hometown.
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Eurogenes k13
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Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.9
2 North_Atlantic 26.79
3 West_Med 11.85
4 East_Med 10.26
5 West_Asian 6.39
6 Oceanian 1.26
7 Siberian 1.19
8 Amerindian 0.83
9 South_Asian 0.35
10 Sub-Saharan 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian_Lviv 4.83
2 Ukrainian 4.96
3 South_Polish 5.27
4 Croatian 5.54
5 Southwest_Russian 7.55
6 Polish 8.01
7 Moldavian 8.15
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.33
9 Russian_Smolensk 9.47
10 Estonian_Polish 9.72
11 Hungarian 9.74
12 Belorussian 10.27
13 Kargopol_Russian 12.51
14 East_German 12.87
15 Austrian 13.89
16 Serbian 13.91
17 Erzya 14.39
18 Estonian 14.48
19 Lithuanian 14.73
20 Southwest_Finnish 14.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.6% Belorussian + 34.4% Bulgarian @ 2.15
2 80.6% Southwest_Russian + 19.4% North_Italian @ 2.17
3 66.9% Estonian_Polish + 33.1% Bulgarian @ 2.21
4 81.7% Southwest_Russian + 18.3% Tuscan @ 2.21
5 56.8% Lithuanian + 43.2% Bulgarian @ 2.26
6 64.8% Estonian_Polish + 35.2% Romanian @ 2.35
7 54.4% Lithuanian + 45.6% Romanian @ 2.36
8 65.7% Southwest_Russian + 34.3% Serbian @ 2.45
9 92.6% Ukrainian + 7.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.46
10 63.5% Belorussian + 36.5% Romanian @ 2.46
11 89.6% Ukrainian + 10.4% Ashkenazi @ 2.54
12 73.7% Belorussian + 26.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.59
13 91.3% Ukrainian + 8.7% Italian_Jewish @ 2.61
14 71.1% Lithuanian + 28.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.61
15 65.8% Lithuanian + 34.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.62
16 59.2% Croatian + 40.8% Southwest_Russian @ 2.63
17 78.6% Estonian_Polish + 21.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.64
18 59.3% Estonian_Polish + 40.7% Serbian @ 2.65
19 74.9% Estonian_Polish + 25.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.65
20 93% Ukrainian + 7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.66

[Scandal]

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 24.79
2 Baltic 24.52
3 Eastern_Euro 17.74
4 Atlantic 11.16
5 West_Med 8.12
6 East_Med 7.67
7 West_Asian 4.22
8 Oceanian 1.05
9 Amerindian 0.44
10 Siberian 0.18
11 Sub-Saharan 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.01
2 Ukrainian 6.12
3 South_Polish 7.63
4 Hungarian 8.29
5 Moldavian 8.33
6 Croatian 8.87
7 Polish 9.8
8 Southwest_Russian 10.86
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.94
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.56
11 Estonian 11.88
12 Belorussian 12.32
13 Finnish 12.37
14 East_German 12.45
15 Estonian_Polish 12.76
16 Austrian 13.01
17 East_Finnish 13.41
18 Kargopol_Russian 13.52
19 Southwest_Finnish 13.57
20 Serbian 13.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.3% Ukrainian + 7.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.53
2 91.2% Ukrainian + 8.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.62
3 92.7% Ukrainian + 7.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.69
4 92.7% Ukrainian + 7.3% Samaritan @ 4.77
5 93% Ukrainian + 7% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.8
6 92.7% Ukrainian + 7.3% Palestinian @ 4.82
7 86.6% Ukrainian + 13.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.84
8 69.1% Estonian + 30.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.85
9 92.6% Ukrainian + 7.4% Jordanian @ 4.86
10 91.1% Ukrainian + 8.9% Italian_Jewish @ 4.87
11 92.2% Ukrainian + 7.8% Cyprian @ 4.87
12 92.5% Ukrainian + 7.5% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.89
13 94.1% Ukrainian + 5.9% Yemenite_Jewish @ 4.89
14 92.9% Ukrainian + 7.1% Assyrian @ 4.91
15 93.1% Ukrainian + 6.9% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.92
16 89.2% Ukrainian + 10.8% Ashkenazi @ 4.93
17 92.6% Ukrainian + 7.4% Syrian @ 4.94
18 91.7% Ukrainian + 8.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.99
19 89.8% Ukrainian + 10.2% Central_Greek @ 5
20 92.3% Ukrainian + 7.7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.02

[Scandal]

puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian 3.7
2 Slovak 5.35
3 German_North 5.72
4 Slovene 7.11
5 Belarusian 7.5
6 Norwegian 7.83
7 Swedish 8.37
8 Hungarian 8.45
9 Utahn_European 8.68
10 Irish 8.96
11 Moldavian 9.39
12 Orcadian 9.45
13 Scottish 9.59
14 English 9.66
15 Mordovian 10.37
16 Croatian 10.8
17 Russian 11.57
18 Bosnian 11.67
19 German_South 11.71
20 Polish 11.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.9% Ukrainian + 2.1% Papuan @ 2.44
2 68.3% Slovak + 31.7% Mordovian @ 2.62
3 97.3% Ukrainian + 2.7% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 2.64
4 57.2% Russian + 42.8% Serbian @ 2.68
5 70.8% Slovak + 29.2% Russian @ 2.69
6 95.4% Ukrainian + 4.6% Afghan_Hazara @ 2.7
7 97.8% Ukrainian + 2.2% Ju_Hoan @ 2.72
8 88.5% Ukrainian + 11.5% Tatar @ 2.74
9 86.8% Belarusian + 13.2% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.75
10 86.1% Belarusian + 13.9% Turkish @ 2.76
11 56.3% Belarusian + 43.7% Moldavian @ 2.78
12 60.4% Slovene + 39.6% Mordovian @ 2.78
13 97.2% Ukrainian + 2.8% Eskimo @ 2.78
14 96.3% Ukrainian + 3.7% Altaian @ 2.79
15 96.8% Ukrainian + 3.2% Tuvinian @ 2.79
16 63.2% Slovene + 36.8% Russian @ 2.79
17 72.3% Belarusian + 27.7% Romanian @ 2.8
18 97.4% Ukrainian + 2.6% Biaka_Pygmy @ 2.82
19 96.7% Ukrainian + 3.3% Mongolian @ 2.82
20 97.1% Ukrainian + 2.9% Hadza @ 2.83

[Scandal]

Another uber Slavic Hungarian. It seems that from genetic point of view there is decent number of Hungarians who are more Slavic than many actual Slavs, lel.

Hungarian avarage is around 50% slavic*, same as Serbs.

*the rest is more or less even split between native balkanics and germans.

[Chris596]

Nice! Is she in your top matches? You reminded me to check my closest matches on GEDmatch

My closest match has an Ukrainian surname but he seems to be similar to me genetically and looks like he also has Gypsy ancestry:

Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 20.61
2 North_Atlantic 18.65
3 East_Med 16.06
4 West_Asian 14.69
5 West_Med 14.03
6 South_Asian 11.48
7 Red_Sea 2.22
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Oceanian 0.68

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 13.846395
2 Romanian @ 13.970048
3 Greek_Thessaly @ 16.279671
4 Serbian @ 16.566284
5 Moldavian @ 19.134554
6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 21.484711
7 Central_Greek @ 21.746008
8 Croatian @ 22.728394
9 Tuscan @ 22.814423
10 East_Sicilian @ 22.825222
11 Hungarian @ 22.859125
12 West_Sicilian @ 23.500719
13 North_Italian @ 24.014599
14 Ashkenazi @ 25.091429
15 Austrian @ 25.789909
16 South_Italian @ 25.941481
17 Tatar @ 27.378553
18 East_German @ 27.469158
19 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 28.543306
20 West_German @ 28.944859

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azeri +50% East_German @ 10.694426

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.999704

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Punjabi_Jat + Ukrainian @ 2.445804




Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.4% Bulgarian + 19.6% Gujarati @ 1.63
2 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Brahmin_UP @ 1.72
3 80.4% Bulgarian + 19.6% Kshatriya @ 1.74
4 80.6% Bulgarian + 19.4% Bangladeshi @ 2.05
5 82.4% Bulgarian + 17.6% Kanjar @ 2.14
6 83.3% Bulgarian + 16.7% Velamas @ 2.21
7 82.1% Bulgarian + 17.9% Dharkar @ 2.24
8 83.4% Bulgarian + 16.6% Kurumba @ 2.26
9 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Dusadh @ 2.45
10 82.8% Bulgarian + 17.2% Uttar_Pradesh @ 2.51
11 84.2% Bulgarian + 15.8% Piramalai @ 2.57
12 83.3% Bulgarian + 16.7% Kol @ 2.65
13 83.6% Bulgarian + 16.4% North_Kannadi @ 2.74
14 83.3% Romanian + 16.7% Velamas @ 2.75
15 80.5% Romanian + 19.5% Gujarati @ 2.77
16 80.6% Romanian + 19.4% Bangladeshi @ 2.87
17 80.5% Romanian + 19.5% Kshatriya @ 2.88
18 83.6% Bulgarian + 16.4% Chenchu @ 2.92
19 84.6% Bulgarian + 15.4% Sakilli @ 2.93
20 83.5% Romanian + 16.5% Kurumba @ 3.04

[Scandal]

Nice! Is she in your top matches?


If I understood it correctly she's my closest match. She's the only one in the list with hungarian surname, the rest mostly have anglo names(because mostly people from those countries use gedmatch)

Are you matching with any hungarian surnames?

[Terminator98]

Hungarian avarage is around 50% slavic*, same as Serbs.

*the rest is more or less even split between native balkanics and germans.

Yeah I know, genetic overlap between Serbs and Hungarians is around 70% (my guess), after Bosnia, Montenegro, Moldavia and Croatia I think that Hungary is closest to us. :)
But, I've seen enough Hungarian results (here and on other forums) to know that such individuals like OP exist among ethnic Hungarians, that's why I said "decent number" (well, it depends what do you consider as decent number but you get my point). :)

[Chris596]

If I understood it correctly she's my closest match. She's the only one in the list with hungarian surname, the rest mostly have anglo names(because mostly people from those countries use gedmatch)

Are you matching with any hungarian surnames?

I see.

Well, not a single Hungarian match so far, lol. Funny because I have some on Myheritage and FTDNA too.
Lots of South Slavic names (-ac, -ec, -ic, you know), I also have many Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian/ matches everywhere which is still surprising, some Romanian, Polish and possibly many Jews (judging by the name) and some English, Germanic, Latin-American and Spanish names. I even noticed a couple Turkish names but no Hungarian so far.

[Scandal]

Her Vahaduo k13

Distance to: my_relative(hungarian)
3.94688485 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
5.55009009 Ukrainian_Lviv
5.62275733 Ukrainian
5.96935507 South_Polish
6.27271352 Slovak
6.84929193 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
7.24427142 Hungarian_Northern
7.88002538 Sorb_Lusatia
8.49249080 Southwest_Russian
8.58063517 Czech
8.61569498 Croat_Croatia_Central
8.64290955 Hungarian_Alfold
8.69462390 Slovenian
8.79330996 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
8.86111167 Moldova_North
9.04559009 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia
9.15404828 Polish
9.22857519 Croat_Croatia
9.34887159 Croat
9.40231355 Ukrainian_Belgorod
9.72126029 Hungarian
9.78359341 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
10.21629091 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
10.25618350 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
10.28884846 Hungarian_Budapest


Target: my_relative(hungarian)
Distance: 0.7705% / 0.77052434
34.0 Greek_Northern-Thrace
27.8 Latvian
22.0 Sorb_Lusatia
14.8 Estonian
1.0 Southeast_English
0.4 Papuan



Target: my_relative(hungarian)
Distance: 1.6899% / 1.68985141 | ADC: 0.25x
59.8 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
26.0 Southwest_Russian
8.4 South_Polish
5.4 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia
0.4 Papuan


Target: my_relative(hungarian)
Distance: 1.9788% / 1.97884043 | ADC: 0.5x
69.8 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
19.2 Southwest_Russian
11.0 South_Polish

Andre's Slavic/Germanic/Balkanic/Altaic calculator


Target: my_relative(hungarian)
Distance: 3.8683% / 3.86832944
79.6 Slavic
20.4 South_PaleoBalk


Target: my_relative(hungarian)
Distance: 4.9566% / 4.95661048
78.0 Slavic
21.4 North_PaleoBalk
0.6 Altaic

[Scandal]

Yeah I know, genetic overlap between Serbs and Hungarians is around 70% (my guess), after Bosnia, Montenegro, Moldavia and Croatia I think that Hungary is closest to us. :)
But, I've seen enough Hungarian results (here and on other forums) to know that such individuals like OP exist among ethnic Hungarians, that's why I said "decent number" (well, it depends what do you consider as decent number but you get my point). :)

What I meant was hungarians are on avarage no more slavic than serbs, genetically speaking. She(the gedmatch relative of mine) is an outlier.

See this thread: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6838043#post6838043

[Mingle]

Wow, that's almost twice as much Baltic as North Atlantic. She's even a bit distant to the Northern Hungarian average. I would guess her to be mixed based on ones I've seen before. Usually there's an explanation for the results of outliers.

[Scandal]

Wow, that's almost twice as much Baltic as North Atlantic. She's even a bit distant to the Northern Hungarian average. I would guess her to be mixed based on ones I've seen before. Usually there's an explanation for the results of outliers.

It depends on how you define mixed. She's a hungarian to me. All ethnic hungarians have slavic admixture to varying degrees, so on what basis do you determine who's mixed and who's not? Hungarians are on avarage 50% slavic genetically. There are also ethnic hungarians (such as Egyvalaki) who are genetically more german than half NW euros like oszkar and Mr.G

[Mingle]

It depends on how you define mixed. She's a hungarian to me. All ethnic hungarians have slavic admixture to varying degrees, so on what basis do you determine who's mixed and who's not? Hungarians are on avarage 50% slavic genetically. There are also ethnic hungarians (such as Egyvalaki) who are genetically more german than half NW euros like oszkar and Mr.G

I meant more along the lines of having a Slavic parent or grandparent.

[Chris596]

It depends on how you define mixed. She's a hungarian to me. All ethnic hungarians have slavic admixture to varying degrees, so on what basis do you determine who's mixed and who's not? Hungarians are on avarage 50% slavic genetically. There are also ethnic hungarians (such as Egyvalaki) who are genetically more german than half NW euros like oszkar and Mr.G

Exactly. Hungarians are a mixed bunch and there's nothing wrong with that. You, Egyvalaki, Kökény, Videx, me etc we are the living proof.

Generally we can say that the majority of Hungarians, have lots of Slavic blood, I don't know a single Hungarian who doesn't have any Slavic blood :)

[Jana]

Another Rusyn like Hungarian (like you). :D

[Blondie]

Yeah I know, genetic overlap between Serbs and Hungarians is around 70% (my guess), after Bosnia, Montenegro, Moldavia and Croatia I think that Hungary is closest to us. :)
But, I've seen enough Hungarian results (here and on other forums) to know that such individuals like OP exist among ethnic Hungarians, that's why I said "decent number" (well, it depends what do you consider as decent number but you get my point). :)

The hungarian historians take difference between the common folk and elite from 9-10. century because they had totally different genetic. Genetically the common folk was slavic, i strongly believe the common folk were uralized slavs from East Europe who migrated here together with other slavs during the slavic migration times and the conquerors were not uralic speakers but turkics who assimilated into hungarian speakers later.

[kundur]

Unlike Turks who seem to bear substantial levels of blood from their old ancestors who were living in Haganates some 1500 years and who had a nomadic pastoral lifestyle and production system, if we believe in these test results (still questionable), it appears that Hungarians are a folk which primarily underwent An Elite Dominance Effect in a linguistical and identitarian sense. Like a horde of sheep is dragged here or there by the herder.

After all, the folk follows what the state preaches her to do, and what matters is Who controlled that state of Hungary. After horka Bulcsu seems to have been tragically killed in action by the Bavarians in open field, a Germanic-Vatican gang seems to have taken control of the Hungarian state in a spiritual sense. For 1000 years.

In a geopolitical sense, Hungary is not more relevant than Slovakia. Romania is actually a more important country than Hungary in international politics.
Hungary is Western Peripheral Catholic country, a bit like Slovakia, Poland, Croatia.
Everyone needs psychological comfort and must find someone to look down upon. It is how generally people feel better. That's human nature. It seems like these Central Europeans get the relief by looking at Orthodox people around them and feeling themselves more ahead and closer to West than them.

[Scandal]

Unlike Turks who seem to bear substantial levels of blood from their old ancestors who were living in Haganates some 1500 years and who had a nomadic pastoral lifestyle and production system, if we believe in these test results (still questionable),

What's questionable about it? She has hungarian surname and given name on gedmatch. She's not avarage in Hungary, but an outlier (avarage hungarian isn't like ukrainians genetically). Still there are hungarian individuals who have similar results to her.

[Ion Basescul]

Yeah I know, genetic overlap between Serbs and Hungarians is around 70% (my guess), after Bosnia, Montenegro, Moldavia and Croatia I think that Hungary is closest to us. :)
But, I've seen enough Hungarian results (here and on other forums) to know that such individuals like OP exist among ethnic Hungarians, that's why I said "decent number" (well, it depends what do you consider as decent number but you get my point). :)

Romania is way closer to Serbia genetically than Hungary.

[Ion Basescul]

Romania is way closer to Serbia genetically than Hungary.

As you can see, Serbs are close to Romanians from Moldavia, Maramures, Crisana and Transylvania. The G25 averages from Serbia are even closer to South Romanians (Muntenia, Oltenia, Dobrogea) than Hungarians from Hungary and some Croatians.

https://i.ibb.co/dgqWV3g/image.png

https://i.ibb.co/HhcnL6Y/image.png

https://i.ibb.co/HBLWcPF/image.png

https://i.ibb.co/cL76CB5/image.png

https://i.ibb.co/yfPpryy/image.png


Those Serbs in Bosnia & Herzegovina and Croatia are more Central Euro shifted, but those are also separate countries. It's like trying to present the results of Romanians/Moldovans from Moldova as representative for the averages in Romania.

[Blondie]

What's questionable about it? She has hungarian surname and given name on gedmatch. She's not avarage in Hungary, but an outlier (avarage hungarian isn't like ukrainians genetically). Still there are hungarian individuals who have similar results to her.

Except north eastern hungarians who are pretty homogenous slavic closest to ukrainians, slovaks and poles.

[Blondie]

Unlike Turks who seem to bear substantial levels of blood from their old ancestors

Not really , turks look like regular middle easternes, genetically they are half arabs:

"Turkey connects the Middle East, Europe, and Asia and has experienced major population movements. We examined the population structure and genetic relatedness of samples from three regions of Turkey using over 500,000 SNP genotypes. The data were analyzed together with Human Genome Diversity Panel data. To obtain a more representative sampling from Central Asia, Kyrgyz samples (Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan) were genotyped and analyzed. Principal component (PC) analysis reveals a significant overlap between Turks and Middle Easterners and a relationship with Europeans and South and Central Asians; however, the Turkish genetic structure is unique. FRAPPE, STRUCTURE, and phylogenetic analyses support the PC analysis depending upon the number of parental ancestry components chosen. For example, supervised STRUCTURE (K = 3) illustrates a genetic ancestry for the Turks of 45% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 42–49), 40% European (95% CI, 36–44), and 15% Central Asian (95% CI, 13–16), whereas at K = 4 the genetic ancestry of the Turks was 38% European (95% CI, 35–42), 35% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 33–38), 18% South Asian (95% CI, 16–19), and 9% Central Asian (95% CI, 7–11). PC analysis and FRAPPE/STRUCTURE results from three regions in Turkey (Aydin, Istanbul, and Kayseri) were superimposed, without clear subpopulation structure, suggesting the selected samples were rather homogeneous. Thus, this study demonstrates admixture of Turkish people reflecting the population migration patterns."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904778/

10-15% central asian genetic doesn't make you asian or something. The turkish culture is arabic too i mean the islam which originated from arabia, old turks were enslaved by arabs in every way. Turks have arabic names too, the most popular names in Turkey:

Yusuf (arabic)
Eymen (germanic)
Ömer (arabic)
Mustafa (arabic)
Mirac (arabic)
Berat (albanian)
Ahmet (arabic)
Hamza (arabic)
Mehmet (arabic)
Emir (arabic)

So you guys are half arabs with arab culture, arab names and everything.

[Jana]

Not really , turks look like regular middle easternes, genetically they are half arabs:

"Turkey connects the Middle East, Europe, and Asia and has experienced major population movements. We examined the population structure and genetic relatedness of samples from three regions of Turkey using over 500,000 SNP genotypes. The data were analyzed together with Human Genome Diversity Panel data. To obtain a more representative sampling from Central Asia, Kyrgyz samples (Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan) were genotyped and analyzed. Principal component (PC) analysis reveals a significant overlap between Turks and Middle Easterners and a relationship with Europeans and South and Central Asians; however, the Turkish genetic structure is unique. FRAPPE, STRUCTURE, and phylogenetic analyses support the PC analysis depending upon the number of parental ancestry components chosen. For example, supervised STRUCTURE (K = 3) illustrates a genetic ancestry for the Turks of 45% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 42–49), 40% European (95% CI, 36–44), and 15% Central Asian (95% CI, 13–16), whereas at K = 4 the genetic ancestry of the Turks was 38% European (95% CI, 35–42), 35% Middle Eastern (95% CI, 33–38), 18% South Asian (95% CI, 16–19), and 9% Central Asian (95% CI, 7–11). PC analysis and FRAPPE/STRUCTURE results from three regions in Turkey (Aydin, Istanbul, and Kayseri) were superimposed, without clear subpopulation structure, suggesting the selected samples were rather homogeneous. Thus, this study demonstrates admixture of Turkish people reflecting the population migration patterns."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904778/

10-15% central asian genetic doesn't make you asian or something. The turkish culture is arabic too i mean the islam which originated from arabia, old turks were enslaved by arabs in every way. Turks have arabic names too, the most popular names in Turkey:

Yusuf (arabic)
Eymen (germanic)
Ömer (arabic)
Mustafa (arabic)
Mirac (arabic)
Berat (albanian)
Ahmet (arabic)
Hamza (arabic)
Mehmet (arabic)
Emir (arabic)

So you guys are half arabs with arab culture, arab names and everything.

They are not Arab admixed at all, except small amount of Turks in deepest SE Turkey.
Their west Asian admixture is native Anatolian.

[vbnetkhio]

As you can see, Serbs are close to Romanians from Moldavia, Maramures, Crisana and Transylvania. The G25 averages from Serbia are even closer to South Romanians (Muntenia, Oltenia, Dobrogea) than Hungarians from Hungary and some Croatians.

there are no "Serbian averages" in G25, only 5 Serbian samples out of which only Serbs 1 and 3 are close to the average, an 2,4, and 5 are south shifted types which appear very rarely in reality. G25 is uselles for comparing modern East Europeans and Balkanians, I think this was explained already a couple of times on this forum, in threads you took part in.


Those Serbs in Bosnia & Herzegovina and Croatia are more Central Euro shifted, but those are also separate countries. It's like trying to present the results of Romanians/Moldovans from Moldova as representative for the averages in Romania.

where do you get this from? Serbs from Herzegovina are very paleo-Balkan, similar to South-east Serbs. and others in Bosnia and Croatia are pretty much identical to West, Central and Vojvodina Serbs. and for example, Serbs from western Bosnia are less North Atlantic than those from Serbia according to my current data.

is this an attempt of trolling? imagine if i ignored all the Romanian and Moldovan k13 averages you collected and insisted on the "official" averages from some Eurogenes calc. (some of which are almost 10% away from the actual averages for said ethnicites, because of Davidskis' issues.)

[Jana]

G25 indeed sucks for this region, but updated K13 is real deal, we worked hard on these averages after all.

[kundur]

Some Anatolian Turks are until 19% East Asian (Japan-like genes) genetically and since Turks were never full Mongoloid, the contribution of old Turks in the genome of Turks is way higher and until a point Hungarians cannot even dream (for themselves and their slav-german-vlah genomes). Among Turks only some outline populations (like Turkish Trabzon or Turkish Erzurum) seem to lack, but overall Turks are roughly 10% East Asian to begin with.

Turks all have Turkic family names. With rising Islamization of the society between 1980-2010, there was an increase in the rate of Arabic and Persian names, yet newer generation Turks increasingly name their kids after Turkic name.

You should not confuse Turks, who are not under Arab control, with Hungarians (a people clearly under Austro-Bavarian spiritual yoke).
In their relationship with Arabs, Turks were mastering and being princes, bureaucrats, military governors etc.
While in case of Hungarians, they are sadly a fellow steppe folk under Germanic leadership.

Did not Hungarian crown belong to germanic Habsburgs? Scandalous!
It is like Greeks who had German guy Otto as King in 1830.

[Blondie]

They are not Arab admixed at all, except small amount of Turks in deepest SE Turkey.
Their west Asian admixture is native Anatolian.

They have 45% middle eastern genetic, genetically turks are closest to syrians who are arabs. Turks have arabic culture, names, looking etc, most peoples consider them arabs, even many asian mongoloid turkic ethnicity look down on them because of their arabization. I have seen many siberian or central asian turkic user who said turks are not turkic, they don't feel any brothership with them. Also in Turkey the pro arab movements are very popular, Erdogan want to return back the old arabic tradition of turks. These are simple facts.

[Jana]

Some Anatolian Turks are until 19% East Asian (Japan-like genes) genetically and since Turks were never full Mongoloid, the contribution of old Turks in the genome of Turks is way higher and until a point Hungarians cannot even dream (for themselves and their slav-german-vlah genomes). Among Turks only some outline populations (like Turkish Trabzon or Turkish Erzurum) seem to lack, but overall Turks are roughly 10% East Asian to begin with.

Turks all have Turkic family names. With rising Islamization of the society between 1980-2010, there was an increase in the rate of Arabic and Persian names, yet newer generation Turks increasingly name their kids after Turkic name.

You should not confuse Turks, who are not under Arab control, with Hungarians (a people clearly under Austro-Bavarian spiritual yoke).
In their relationship with Arabs, Turks were mastering and being princes, bureaucrats, military governors etc.
While in case of Hungarians, they are sadly a fellow steppe folk under Germanic leadership (did not Hungarian crown belong to germanic Habsburgs). Scandalous!

Turks are still more native Anatolian than Turkic. Turkmen are very Iranic mixed and poor proxy for Turkic input, proto Turks were not like Turkmen that is for sure.
So take pride in your predominant west Asian/Anatolian ancestry instead of poorly trolling Hungarians, it reeks of autism.

[Jana]

They have 45% middle eastern genetic, genetically turks are closest to syrians who are arabs. Turks have arabic culture, names, looking etc, most peoples consider them arabs, even many asian mongoloid turkic ethnicity look down on them because of their arabization. I have seen many siberian or central asian turkic user who said turks are not turkic, they don't feel any brothership with them. Also in Turkey the pro arab movements are very popular, Erdogan want to return back the old arabic tradition of turks. These are simple facts.

They are not closest to Syrians, these populations aren't that close. They are closer to Azeris than to Syrians but even between them is considerable gap.
Turks are unique population which is mix of Anatolian, Turkic, Iranic, Caucasus... Balkan Turks are mix of modern Balkanites and Turkic for the most part.

They are one of most mixed populations in Eurasia.

[Blondie]

Turks:

https://9c998969b63acdb676d1-37595348221e1b716e1a6cfee3ed7891.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.c om/almpics/2018/03/RTX4570A.jpg/RTX4570A-870.jpg

Arabs:

https://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopoly_fs/1.5413692.1482553938!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/syrians-24-12232016-jpg.jpg

Whats the difference? Nothing, they look 100% same.

[Ion Basescul]

there are no "Serbian averages" in G25, only 5 Serbian samples out of which only Serbs 1 and 3 are close to the average, an 2,4, and 5 are south shifted types which appear very rarely in reality. G25 is uselles for comparing modern East Europeans and Balkanians, I think this was explained already a couple of times on this forum, in threads you took part in.



where do you get this from? Serbs from Herzegovina are very paleo-Balkan, similar to South-east Serbs. and others in Bosnia and Croatia are pretty much identical to West, Central and Vojvodina Serbs. and for example, Serbs from western Bosnia are less North Atlantic than those from Serbia according to my current data.

is this an attempt of trolling? imagine if i ignored all the Romanian and Moldovan k13 averages you collected and insisted on the "official" averages from some Eurogenes calc. (some of which are almost 10% away from the actual averages for said ethnicites, because of Davidskis' issues.)

By G25 I mean Lukasz's G25 with the updated K13. And you definitely know that from the images that I shared above. The data speaks for itself. There's nothing to add.

[kundur]

Turks are still more native Anatolian than Turkic. Turkmen are very Iranic mixed and poor proxy for Turkic input, proto Turks were not like Turkmen that is for sure.
So take pride in your predominant west Asian/Anatolian ancestry instead of poorly trolling Hungarians, it reeks of autism.

There is no Anatolian ethnicity. Neither ''West Asian'' one.
You can simply not compare Turks who have had a history of being a dominant people, having its own noble classes, with their kings being from their own ethnic stocks and who seem to have a genetical continuity with their early medieval ancestors with.... Hungarians (a dominated people) who obviously lack Uralic genes at all, who did not have own noble classes and whose crown belong to germanic Habsburgs and controlled through the Catholic religious structures.

Hungarians: crown belonging to germanic habsburg.
Greeks: crown belonging to bavarian otto.
Turks: crown belonging to own people.

[Jana]

There is no Anatolian ethnicity. Neither ''West Asian'' one.
You can simply not compare Turks who have had a history of being a dominant people, having its own noble classes, with their kings being from their own ethnic stocks and who seem to have a genetical continuity with their early medieval ancestors with Hungarians (a dominated people) who obviously lack Uralic genes at all, who did not have own noble classes and whose crown belong to germanic Habsburgs.

Yes Turks are lot more Turkic than Hungarians are Finno-Ugric. But there is nothing wrong in that in my view.

You are wrong all Hungarians lack Finno-Ugric genes. Stears does not, he always scores Finnish/Uralic admixture everywhere, and that is probably because his father is of Szekely nobility who preserved more original genes than commoners.

[Blondie]

They are not closest to Syrians, these populations aren't that close. They are closer to Azeris than to Syrians but even between them is considerable gap.
Turks are unique population which is mix of Anatolian, Turkic, Iranic, Caucasus... Balkan Turks are mix of modern Balkanites and Turkic for the most part.

They are one of most mixed populations in Eurasia.

Their genetic is european, arabic and 10-15% asian, rest of this asian genetic came from mongols who raped them in 13. century, so they are 5-6% real turkic. I heard many story that turkish girls prefered arabic guys (and turkish boys prefered arabic girls) because having sex with arabs maked them closer to Allah. Plus when turks were arabized the real pagan turks were opressed by arabized turks, they forced them to watch when their nomad wife had sex with arabic guys becuase they wanted to break these nomads to Allah.

[Leto]

Nice! Is she in your top matches? You reminded me to check my closest matches on GEDmatch

My closest match has an Ukrainian surname but he seems to be similar to me genetically and looks like he also has Gypsy ancestry:

Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 20.61
2 North_Atlantic 18.65
3 East_Med 16.06
4 West_Asian 14.69
5 West_Med 14.03
6 South_Asian 11.48
7 Red_Sea 2.22
8 East_Asian 1.59
9 Oceanian 0.68

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 13.846395
2 Romanian @ 13.970048
3 Greek_Thessaly @ 16.279671
4 Serbian @ 16.566284
5 Moldavian @ 19.134554
6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 21.484711
7 Central_Greek @ 21.746008
8 Croatian @ 22.728394
9 Tuscan @ 22.814423
10 East_Sicilian @ 22.825222
11 Hungarian @ 22.859125
12 West_Sicilian @ 23.500719
13 North_Italian @ 24.014599
14 Ashkenazi @ 25.091429
15 Austrian @ 25.789909
16 South_Italian @ 25.941481
17 Tatar @ 27.378553
18 East_German @ 27.469158
19 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 28.543306
20 West_German @ 28.944859

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azeri +50% East_German @ 10.694426

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.999704

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Punjabi_Jat + Ukrainian @ 2.445804




Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.4% Bulgarian + 19.6% Gujarati @ 1.63
2 79.2% Bulgarian + 20.8% Brahmin_UP @ 1.72
3 80.4% Bulgarian + 19.6% Kshatriya @ 1.74
4 80.6% Bulgarian + 19.4% Bangladeshi @ 2.05
5 82.4% Bulgarian + 17.6% Kanjar @ 2.14
6 83.3% Bulgarian + 16.7% Velamas @ 2.21
7 82.1% Bulgarian + 17.9% Dharkar @ 2.24
8 83.4% Bulgarian + 16.6% Kurumba @ 2.26
9 83.5% Bulgarian + 16.5% Dusadh @ 2.45
10 82.8% Bulgarian + 17.2% Uttar_Pradesh @ 2.51
11 84.2% Bulgarian + 15.8% Piramalai @ 2.57
12 83.3% Bulgarian + 16.7% Kol @ 2.65
13 83.6% Bulgarian + 16.4% North_Kannadi @ 2.74
14 83.3% Romanian + 16.7% Velamas @ 2.75
15 80.5% Romanian + 19.5% Gujarati @ 2.77
16 80.6% Romanian + 19.4% Bangladeshi @ 2.87
17 80.5% Romanian + 19.5% Kshatriya @ 2.88
18 83.6% Bulgarian + 16.4% Chenchu @ 2.92
19 84.6% Bulgarian + 15.4% Sakilli @ 2.93
20 83.5% Romanian + 16.5% Kurumba @ 3.04

About half Gypsy. The other half may be Moldovan-like, less Baltic. You can try HarappaWorld, punt K13, etc.

[Leto]

Their genetic is european, arabic and 10-15% asian, rest of this asian genetic came from mongols who raped them in 13. century, so they are 5-6% real turkic. I heard many story that turkish girls prefered arabic guys (and turkish boys prefered arabic girls) because having sex with arabs maked them closer to Allah. Plus when turks were arabized the real pagan turks were opressed by arabized turks, they forced them to watch when their nomad wife had sex with arabic guys becuase they wanted to break these nomads to Allah.
There is virtually no direct Mongol ancestry in modern Turkey, 'cause the Mongols never conquered Anatolia permanently and thus never settled there. Even in Russia they never formed settlements, just a foreign administration like in Afghanistan and Iraq under George W. Bush.

[kundur]

There are again germanic-Catholic attempts around aimed to dehumanize the term Mongol and anything related to it.
It is better to descend from the Great Khan Kublai of the Yuan, based in Beijing and having authority all the way until Pskov-Novgorod and Western Anatolia, than being a habsburg leftover, peripheral Western Euro people trying to find psychological relief by looking down on surrounding Orthodox folks.

[Blondie]

There is virtually no direct Mongol ancestry in modern Turkey,

They have + 5% goat genetic because they mixed with goats too, this is scientific fact.

[Benyzero]

Their genetic is european, arabic and 10-15% asian, rest of this asian genetic came from mongols who raped them in 13. century, so they are 5-6% real turkic. I heard many story that turkish girls prefered arabic guys (and turkish boys prefered arabic girls) because having sex with arabs maked them closer to Allah. Plus when turks were arabized the real pagan turks were opressed by arabized turks, they forced them to watch when their nomad wife had sex with arabic guys becuase they wanted to break these nomads to Allah.

Almost had a party in my pants reading this.

[Ion Basescul]

By G25 I mean Lukasz's G25 with the updated K13. And you definitely know that from the images that I shared above. The data speaks for itself. There's nothing to add.

I think that you are also the one who made the regional Serb averages from Serbia, so I don't know why you are lashing out at me. I'm sorry that Serbs are similar to Romanians genetically if you don't like this, but that won't change much.

[Voskos]

There are again germanic-Catholic attempts around aimed to dehumanize the term Mongol and anything related to it.

I've met many westerners with a fetish for East Asians. You can't generalize.

[Scandal]

Except north eastern hungarians who are pretty homogenous slavic closest to ukrainians, slovaks and poles.

Yes and no. I you think you are influenced by what I said some weeks ago in another thread, but I was misinformed at the time. I remember I claimed Slovaks were very similar to South_Polish and Ukrainians but it turns out that's not the case.

Northeastern Hungarians are more slavic than avarage hungarian but still not that similar to Ukrainians. NE Hungarians get Slovaks as closest population, but Slovaks aren't all that similar to Ukrainians. Ukrainians aren't super close to either Hungarians or Slovaks

Closest populations to Northeastern Hungarians (Vahaduo k13)

Distance to: Hungarian_Northern
2.25764950 Slovak
2.55418730 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
3.33541324 Croat_Croatia_Central
3.67133107 Slovenian
3.68237089 Czech
3.91243703 Hungarian
3.93654599 Hungarian_Budapest
3.96082033 Hungarian_Alfold
3.99673440 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
4.51254022 Hungarian_Transdanubia
5.62194448 Croat_Croatia
5.90689897 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia
6.04175030 Croat
6.28444136 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk //not representative of all Ukrainians, Ivano_Frankivsk is a population that is more southern shifted than avarage Ukrainian
6.44244612 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
7.17301820 Sorb_Lusatia
7.19971459 Moldova_North
7.32579978 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
7.36406869 Croat_B&H_Bosnia
7.40335873 German_east
7.45970617 South_Polish
7.82454770 East_German
8.30411599 Croat_B&H
8.52641388 Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia
8.53991091 Hungarian_Transylvania
8.63878633 Ukrainian_Lviv
8.66647232 Croat_Croatia_Istria&Kvarner
8.68200406 Austrian
8.83019788 Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia
9.18547170 Serb_B&H_Northeast&Central
9.35793637 Hungarian_Szekely
9.39047176 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
9.55008985 Ukrainian



Closest populations to Slovaks

Distance to: Slovak
2.25764950 Hungarian_Northern
2.98493981 Czech
3.48236937 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
4.38527390 Croat_Croatia_Central
4.72628445 Slovenian
5.41391275 Hungarian_Alfold
5.60423101 Hungarian_Budapest
5.62233700 South_Polish
5.63384521 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
5.66365601 Hungarian
5.74120701 Sorb_Lusatia
5.99198730 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
6.37724263 Hungarian_Transdanubia
6.64944563 Ukrainian_Lviv
6.84656654 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
6.91667302 Croat_Croatia
6.99514752 German_east
7.29773702 Croat
7.31204830 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia
7.64249634 Ukrainian
7.92801971 Moldova_North
8.45894908 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
8.54829427 East_German
8.76573159 Croat_B&H_Bosnia
9.39868262 Croat_B&H



Closest populations to Ukrainians:

Distance to: Ukrainian
2.72681132 Ukrainian_Lviv
3.62265096 South_Polish
4.57650522 Polish
5.75956596 Southwest_Russian
6.38615690 Sorb_Lusatia
6.39350452 Cossacks_Kuban
6.48502120 Russian_Smolensk
6.55855929 Ukrainian_Belgorod
7.03232536 Estonian_Polish
7.64249634 Slovak
8.03545269 Belorussian
8.04455717 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
8.84303681 Czech
9.55008985 Hungarian_Northern
10.02806562 Kargopol_Russian
10.82872569 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
10.91679440 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
11.32184614 Croat_Croatia_Central
11.49203757 Slovenian
11.73954854 German_east
11.96077487 Hungarian_Alfold


Now, closest populations of my gedmatch relative:
Distance to: my_relative(hungarian)
3.94688485 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
5.55009009 Ukrainian_Lviv
5.62275733 Ukrainian
5.96935507 South_Polish
6.27271352 Slovak
6.84929193 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
7.24427142 Hungarian_Northern (not small distance)
7.88002538 Sorb_Lusatia
8.49249080 Southwest_Russian
8.58063517 Czech
8.61569498 Croat_Croatia_Central
8.64290955 Hungarian_Alfold
8.69462390 Slovenian
8.79330996 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
8.86111167 Moldova_North
9.04559009 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia
9.15404828 Polish
9.22857519 Croat_Croatia
9.34887159 Croat
9.40231355 Ukrainian_Belgorod
9.72126029 Hungarian
9.78359341 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
10.21629091 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
10.25618350 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
10.28884846 Hungarian_Budapest


Although my gedmatch relative is not that far from Hungary_North, she isn't close either. Genetically she's not avarage in any region of Hungary, at least according to Eurogenes k13.

[Scandal]

I'M going to post her dodecad k12b

[Scandal]

Dodecad k12b gedmatch
It's debatable how accurate this calculator is. I think k13 has better reputation on the forum.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 50.79
2 Atlantic_Med 24.45
3 Caucasus 16.02
4 Gedrosia 4.27
5 Southwest_Asian 1.67
6 South_Asian 1.04
7 Siberian 0.97
8 East_Asian 0.5
9 East_African 0.21
10 Sub_Saharan 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 3.58
2 German (Dodecad) 10.47
3 Polish (Dodecad) 12.92
4 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 13.44
5 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 14.98
6 Swedish (Dodecad) 16.64
7 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 17.87
8 Romanians (Behar) 17.96
9 Russian (Dodecad) 18.03
10 Belorussian (Behar) 18.11
11 Dutch (Dodecad) 18.39
12 Russian_B (Behar) 18.51
13 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 18.51
14 Norwegian (Dodecad) 18.56
15 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 19.82
16 Russian (HGDP) 19.98
17 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 20.08
18 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 21.13
19 English (Dodecad) 21.38
20 Kent (1000Genomes) 21.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.2% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.34
2 84.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.1% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.44
3 84.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.2% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.56
4 82.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 17.4% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 1.71
5 86.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 13.5% Russian (HGDP) @ 1.75
6 81.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 18.9% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.76
7 85.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.5% Belorussian (Behar) @ 1.86
8 88.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.2% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 1.91
9 90.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.8% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2
10 62.8% Russian (Dodecad) + 37.2% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.03
11 81.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 18.3% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.16
12 91.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.24
13 90.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.3% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.24
14 64.8% Russian (Dodecad) + 35.2% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.31
15 67.1% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 32.9% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.4
16 62.2% Russian_B (Behar) + 37.8% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.72
17 69% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 31% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.78
18 92.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.6% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 2.8
19 75.4% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 24.6% Andalucia (1000Genomes) @ 2.94
20 64.2% Russian_B (Behar) + 35.8% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.95


Dod k12b Vahaduo:

Target: relative_of_Universe
Distance: 0.9241% / 0.92410630 | ADC: 0.25x
67.4 Hungarians
25.2 Rus_Kostroma
5.6 PL_Mazovia
1.6 Adygei
0.2 Pulliyar


Distance to: relative_of_Universe
3.84154917 Hungarians
3.86560474 Slovak
5.88742728 Ukrainian
6.57157515 Sorb_Lusatia
6.85219673 Slovenian
7.96737723 Rus_Smolensk
8.25345382 PL_Mazovia
8.75941779 Croat
8.83714886 Rus_Kostroma
9.19761926 Belorussian
9.55546964 Bosnian
10.46169680 R.Moldova_Centre+North
10.72001399 Rus_Tver
10.91973901 Southwest_Rus
11.40199544 German
12.85925348 HUN_Szekely
13.75576970 Serb
16.28185493 Mixed_Slav
16.58378726 Bavarian_German
16.68875669 Veps
16.89190043 Estonian
17.37366686 Mordovian
17.61125776 Montenegrin
17.97433726 Lithuanian
18.47153215 Swedish

[Ion Basescul]

6.28444136 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk //not representative of all Ukrainians, Ivano_Frankivsk is a population that is more southern shifted than avarage Ukrainian

That's my average made from about 10 unrelated people from Ivano-Frankivsk.
For those who are not aware, Ivano-Frankivsk is a mountainous region and people there were historically mixed with Romanians. That's why they are more Southern than average West Ukrainians.
But none of them have anyone in their immediate family who identifies as Romanian or speaks the language, so this is a specific regional profile within Ukraine, which is indicative of medieval Romanian migrations into Ukraine, South Poland and finishing in Czechia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boykos

[Leto]

Dodecad k12b gedmatch
It's debatable how accurate this calculator is. I think k13 has better reputation on the forum.


Dod k12b Vahaduo:
It may not be accurate for everyone but I would argue that focusing on K13 too much isn't the best idea either. I use Dod K12b for Slavs as well as West/Central Asians. But at the end of the day good references are what's crucial.

[Scandal]

It may not be accurate for everyone but I would argue that focusing on K13 too much isn't the best idea either. I use Dod K12b for Slavs as well as West/Central Asians. But at the end of the day good references are what's crucial.

What are good references? I wonder how Hungary_avarage of Vahaduo k13 was created. Avarage of all regions? Not all regions have equal amount of people. Csángós for example are no more than 300,000 (=low number)

[17571imre]

What are good references? I wonder how Hungary_avarage of Vahaduo k13 was created. Avarage of all regions? Not all regions have equal amount of people. Csángós for example are no more than 300,000 (=low number)

this is how it got created:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?322006-The-most-ultimate-Hungarian-K13-database-thus-far

[Leto]

What are good references? I wonder how Hungary_avarage of Vahaduo k13 was created. Avarage of all regions? Not all regions have equal amount of people. Csángós for example are no more than 300,000 (=low number)
Well, you seem to pick on things too much. Who's gonna give you perfect references for every single region and group? I guess no one. The Hungarian pops for K13 were made by Dunai. On Dodecad it's academic samples from Behar.

[Scandal]

this is how it got created:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?322006-The-most-ultimate-Hungarian-K13-database-thus-far

Makes sense.


Well, you seem to pick on things too much. Who's gonna give you perfect references for every single region and group? I guess no one. The Hungarian pops for K13 were made by Dunai. On Dodecad it's academic samples from Behar.

Mate, you're right.

[Jana]

That's my average made from about 10 unrelated people from Ivano-Frankivsk.
For those who are not aware, Ivano-Frankivsk is a mountainous region and people there were historically mixed with Romanians. That's why they are more Southern than average West Ukrainians.
But none of them have anyone in their immediate family who identifies as Romanian or speaks the language, so this is a specific regional profile within Ukraine, which is indicative of medieval Romanian migrations into Ukraine, South Poland and finishing in Czechia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boykos

Rusyns are actually not Ukrainian, they are separate ethnicity with long history of their own. And you are right they are Vlach/Romanian admixed.
Their Slavic part is white Croat btw, they are direct descendants of white Croat tribes mixed with Romanians-Vlachs.

Difference to Slovaks is that they have less central Euro (celtic-germanic) admix and more balkan.
But eastern Slovaks themself have lot of Rusyn blood.

[Jana]

What are good references? I wonder how Hungary_avarage of Vahaduo k13 was created. Avarage of all regions? Not all regions have equal amount of people. Csángós for example are no more than 300,000 (=low number)

You need to make weighted pop average, that's what Vbnethkio made for Croats so more populated regions had higher % in national average.
But I think Dunai's averages are excellent, he used huge sample size and still got average similar to that academic one used on gedmatch.

[Leto]

Rusyns are actually not Ukrainian, they are separate ethnicity with long history of their own. And you are right they are Vlach/Romanian admixed.
Their Slavic part is white Croat btw, they are direct descendants of white Croat tribes mixed with Romanians-Vlachs.

Difference to Slovaks is that they have less central Euro (celtic-germanic) admix and more balkan.
But eastern Slovaks themself have lot of Rusyn blood.
'Rusyn' (русин) which literally means 'Russian, Ruthenian' (of the Rus) is actually the original ethnonym of Ukrainians. 'Ukrainian' (ukraina - borderland) was first adopted in the Cossack-dominated areas in the East and later spread in the West. So ironically Western Ukrainians who are now the biggest nationalists in Ukraine would have been the last to adopt Ukrainian as their self-designation.
Nevertheless, I know what you mean, you mean the modern ethnolinguistic community (Rusyns).

[Ion Basescul]

Rusyns are actually not Ukrainian, they are separate ethnicity with long history of their own. And you are right they are Vlach/Romanian admixed.
Their Slavic part is white Croat btw, they are direct descendants of white Croat tribes mixed with Romanians-Vlachs.

Difference to Slovaks is that they have less central Euro (celtic-germanic) admix and more balkan.
But eastern Slovaks themself have lot of Rusyn blood.

I don't how they started originally, but nowadays both highlanders and West Ukrainians in general are the only "real" Ukrainians so to speak. They are the ones who speak Ukrainian natively. The rest of the people either talk in a mix of Russian and Ukrainian or completely Russian across the whole South, where most people are descendants of Russian colonists.

[oszkar07]

The hungarian historians take difference between the common folk and elite from 9-10. century because they had totally different genetic. Genetically the common folk was slavic, i strongly believe the common folk were uralized slavs from East Europe who migrated here together with other slavs during the slavic migration times and the conquerors were not uralic speakers but turkics who assimilated into hungarian speakers later.

I have felt strongly towards that theory even before it has become slightly popular nowdays in recent Hungarian academic circles in light of Conqueror dna studies.

Completly replacing a genetype but mostly maintaining anothers language when the other was comparitively a minority does just not seem logical.
I agree the Ugric speaking Magyars must have been partially genetically Slav very early on imo.
Also I suspect its very possible Hun conquerors were not necessarily speakers of Magyar but possibly Turkic and other speakers. I agree they or their progeny were assimilated into Magyar speakers in time. Approxiamatly 13 million people in the world speak Hungarian. Could a minority of Conquerors spread this language to a
much larger native majority. Remember children usually learn speech from their mothers.
Who would have had more females ...Nomadic conqueror warriors or settled native inhabitants of Karpat medence ?

[Jana]

I don't how they started originally, but nowadays both highlanders and West Ukrainians in general are the only "real" Ukrainians so to speak. They are the ones who speak Ukrainian natively. The rest of the people either talk in a mix of Russian and Ukrainian or completely Russian across the whole South, where most people are descendants of Russian colonists.

I met Rusyns in real life and they are very angry because Ukraine is trying to assimilate them by force, which they resist. Btw Rusyn ethnonym is much older than Ukrainian.

[Jana]

Also we need to make difference between regular west Ukrainians and Rusyns, these two belong to different ethnicities.

[Leto]

I don't how they started originally, but nowadays both highlanders and West Ukrainians in general are the only "real" Ukrainians so to speak. They are the ones who speak Ukrainian natively. The rest of the people either talk in a mix of Russian and Ukrainian or completely Russian across the whole South, where most people are descendants of Russian colonists.
They are not necessarily descendants of Russian colonists. 70% of Ukraine's population live east of Vinnitsa or east of Kiev. In fact a lot of people from what is now Central/Eastern Ukraine were sent to populate Southern/Southwestern Russia in the 18th century (the so called Wild Fields, dikoye pole) (see the book by Kabuzan).

[Leto]

Also we need to make difference between regular west Ukrainians and Rusyns, these two belong to different ethnicities.
Nurzat is half Rusyn from Romania and they use Ukrainian now too.

[Jana]

Nurzat is half Rusyn from Romania and they use Ukrainian now too.

He said they use it because being under Ukrainin umbrella helps them get their rights in Romania more easily.
Rusyns don't consider themself Ukrainian, those that do are considered traitors in the community.

Genetically they are quite different too (phenotypes as well), Ukrainians are much more purely Slavic.

[Leto]

He said they use it because being under Ukrainin umbrella helps them get their rights in Romania more easily.
Rusyns don't consider themself Ukrainian, those that do are considered traitors in the community.

Genetically they are quite different too (phenotypes as well), Ukrainians are much more purely Slavic.
Well, and Ukrainians are traitors to me for not identifying as Russian xD
Okay, let's not go into that debate. It's a mess.

[ph2ter]

[/B]

I have felt strongly towards that theory even before it has become slightly popular nowdays in recent Hungarian academic circles in light of Conqueror dna studies.

Completly replacing a genetype but mostly maintaining anothers language when the other was comparitively a minority does just not seem logical.
I agree the Ugric speaking Magyars must have been partially genetically Slav very early on imo.
Also I suspect its very possible Hun conquerors were not necessarily speakers of Magyar but possibly Turkic and other speakers. I agree they or their progeny were assimilated into Magyar speakers in time. Approxiamatly 13 million people in the world speak Hungarian. Could a minority of Conquerors spread this language to a
much larger native majority. Remember children usually learn speech from their mothers.
Who would have had more females ...Nomadic conqueror warriors or settled native inhabitants of Karpat medence ?

Wives were coming to their husbands. When you go from your family speaking Slavic to the family speaking Hungarian you end up speaking Hungarian.
There is no way that a wife imposed her language to the husband's family especially when political power was on the husband's side.

[Aspirin]

Rusyns are actually not Ukrainian, they are separate ethnicity with long history of their own. And you are right they are Vlach/Romanian admixed.
Their Slavic part is white Croat btw, they are direct descendants of white Croat tribes mixed with Romanians-Vlachs.

Difference to Slovaks is that they have less central Euro (celtic-germanic) admix and more balkan.
But eastern Slovaks themself have lot of Rusyn blood.

Some of them are pretty western. These are all Rusyn samples who I know. All of them except two are from Ivano-Frankivsk.

https://sun6-19.userapi.com/P2hkanWZYuCBqXBq7lHAfN5pW2y33tEbP7EQug/MwCUQAVi0Vg.jpg

[Blondie]

[/B]

I have felt strongly towards that theory even before it has become slightly popular nowdays in recent Hungarian academic circles in light of Conqueror dna studies.

Completly replacing a genetype but mostly maintaining anothers language when the other was comparitively a minority does just not seem logical.
I agree the Ugric speaking Magyars must have been partially genetically Slav very early on imo.
Also I suspect its very possible Hun conquerors were not necessarily speakers of Magyar but possibly Turkic and other speakers. I agree they or their progeny were assimilated into Magyar speakers in time. Approxiamatly 13 million people in the world speak Hungarian. Could a minority of Conquerors spread this language to a
much larger native majority. Remember children usually learn speech from their mothers.
Who would have had more females ...Nomadic conqueror warriors or settled native inhabitants of Karpat medence ?

We all know the slavs and finno-ugrians lived together in East Europe as fishers and hunters, it's very possible that a slavic group migrated deep inside to finno-ugrian territory and later they adopted this langauge. Later when the great slavic migration happaned this group migrated with them and finally they have arrived in Carpathian Basin in 5-6. century.
The arabic, greek and other sources described the conquerors as turkic. The turkic groups spoked a same language in this time (and basically nowadays too), you cannot understand it with hungarian language, and the greeks and arabs were not stupid to call an uralic speaker group as turkic if they aren't. So it proves that nomad hungarians were not uralic speakers, but this language was in Carpathian Basin before them. The Gesta Hungarorum says when these nomads arrived here the locals used hungarian and slavic topography. The another fact the common folk and elite had different genetic they were a different population. They have settled in central parts of C. Basin where these uralic speaker slavs lived and later they merged with each other and this population was the ancestors of modern hungarians who got german genetic later because of german farmers, knights, priests.

[Blondie]

Wives were coming to their husbands. When you go from your family speaking Slavic to the family speaking Hungarian you end up speaking Hungarian.
There is no way that a wife imposed her language to the husband's family especially when political power was on the husband's side.

My father's native language is german, my morther's and sister's native language is hungarian and we all use hungarian at home if we are together. But if i'm with only my father we use german. So its not necessarily true that the wife always will adopt her husbands language.

ps: my hungarian language is 100% good with the purest accent, my german is also fluent but sometimes i did some grammar mistake although it's rare but can happen because i don't use it every day. I've noticed transylvanian hungarians also do grammar mistake sometimes for same reason. And the danube swabians use such special german words what germans from Germany don't use and dont understand.

[Renekton]

There is no Anatolian ethnicity. Neither ''West Asian'' one.
You can simply not compare Turks who have had a history of being a dominant people, having its own noble classes, with their kings being from their own ethnic stocks and who seem to have a genetical continuity with their early medieval ancestors with.... Hungarians (a dominated people) who obviously lack Uralic genes at all, who did not have own noble classes and whose crown belong to germanic Habsburgs and controlled through the Catholic religious structures.

Hungarians: crown belonging to germanic habsburg.
Greeks: crown belonging to bavarian otto.
Turks: crown belonging to own people.

You are mentally retarded, go to a doctor

[ph2ter]

My father's native language is german, my morther's and sister's native language is hungarian and we all use hungarian at home if we are together. But if i'm with only my father we use german. So its not necessarily true that the wife always will adopt her husbands language.

ps: my hungarian language is 100% good with the purest accent, my german is also fluent but sometimes i did some grammar mistake although it's rare but can happen because i don't use it every day. I've noticed transylvanian hungarians also do grammar mistake sometimes for same reason. And the danube swabians use such special german words what germans from Germany don't use and dont understand.
Why do you project modern families into ancient patriarchal communities? I am speaking about Medieval and also earlier times.

[Leto]

Ususally people will use whatever language that is more useful practically and/or prestigeous socially.

[Blondie]

Why do you project modern families into ancient patriarchal communities? I am speaking about Medieval and also earlier times.

Our family is very patriachal :cool:

[vbnetkhio]

I think that you are also the one who made the regional Serb averages from Serbia,
yes i am.


so I don't know why you are lashing out at me.
i'm sorry. it was because many people like to claim Serbs from this or that region aren't real Serbs, but assimilated or heavily mixed with some other ethnicity. despite genetics having debunked that. and your post really seemed like it was pushing that agenda to me.


I'm sorry that Serbs are similar to Romanians genetically if you don't like this, but that won't change much.
i didn't say anything against this.