G25 Scaled "aproximate" version of "Andre's K13 Vahaduo calculator " for Balkans.

[gixajo]

Copied idea from this thread by opened by Universe: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?329730-Andre-s-K13-Vahaduo-calculator-to-gauge-Slavic-Balkanic-Germanic-Altaic-admixture/page3&p=6838391#post6838391

I tried to choose exactly the same references, but unfortunately, i didn´t find any "Emilia-Romagna" reference for North_Paleo_Balkan, so I choose the next closer reference, also italian, that is Umbria.

I limited the number of individual samples from Germany to 10, because if not, Germany would be overrepresented in sources.I take 5 from the first samples, and 5 of the last ones.

I know they are not the same references, but I am curious to see if results are similar to those from K13.

SCALED

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

References form modern averages pop (some ofrum member consider that 3 German individual samples are not enough Germanic so I add my German+Dutch reference to represent West_Germany reference in K13):


Germanic:Ger+Dutch,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.0595375 0,0.04242800,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00 693350,0.00355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0 .057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.00429 5,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305, 0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria,0.117111,0.14747 7,0.007794,-0.027994,0.020038,-0.009172,-0.000862,-0.00241,0.005227,0.025918,-0.000379,0.005395,-0.010158,-0.005321,-0.002488,0.000575,0.006954,0.000591,0.001061,-0.002334,-0.003411,0.000756,0.000315,0.003039,-0.001091
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo,0.112685,0.1488 01,-0.000675,-0.034765,0.016116,-0.01255,0.000779,-0.002283,0.003789,0.020813,0.000513,0.003668,-0.005633,-0.003904,-0.00615,-0.001466,0.00186,0.000267,0.003361,-0.003693,-0.003809,0.001334,0.000889,0.001706,-0.000964
Altaic:Altaian,0.057367,-0.28841,0.067052,-0.007881,-0.061304,-0.023873,0.011845,0.015738,0.001677,0.001968,-0.018642,-0.002518,0.000119,-0.011615,-0.00247,0.001989,-0.002764,-0.001318,0.011087,0.015257,-0.024157,0.001607,-0.014223,-0.00106,-0.002179

Originally posted sources(made with individual averages), don´t use them, I let them here to explain first results we got.




Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1,0.133173,0.132019,0.065 996,0.049419,0.039392,0.024542,0.00893,0.008769,0. 003886,-0.013668,-0.00065,-0.007343,0.008325,0.014863,-0.012486,0.005304,-0.005346,0.00228,0.002388,0.002126,-0.001497,-0.002844,0.007888,-0.006748,0.000838
Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.134311,0.126941,0.081 458,0.065569,0.035391,0.033746,0.00987,0.005769,0. 004704,-0.02278,-0.002436,-0.005395,0.01219,0.020643,-0.015201,-0.003845,0.005867,0.004561,0.008673,5e-04,0.001497,-0.00272,0.013804,-0.007109,0.002634
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo13, 0.117238,0.150298,-0.003017,-0.031331,0.019696,-0.018407,-0.00282,0.002308,0.005727,0.02442,0.002761,-0.00045,-0.001487,-0.00289,-0.001493,0.016839,0.012908,0.000253,0.009679,-0.004127,-0.004118,0.002844,0.002342,0.003976,-0.002994
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo14, 0.114961,0.145221,0.002263,-0.04199,0.016618,-0.020917,-0.000235,-0.001385,0.001432,0.022962,0.00682,0.004796,-0.006095,-0.004404,-0.005836,-0.009812,-0.005998,0.001774,0.00817,-0.012381,0.001497,0.000618,0.002958,0.004097,0
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo15, 0.113823,0.149283,0.003017,-0.030039,0.015695,-0.014502,0.00235,-0.002308,0.000614,0.021322,-0.001299,0.002398,-0.007433,-0.003853,-0.008143,0.003182,0.000391,0.002407,-0.000251,-0.003752,-0.005989,-0.005812,0.001725,-0.000241,-0.001437
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo16, 0.114961,0.149283,0.009051,-0.03553,0.016311,-0.008088,0.00094,-0.005307,0.005522,0.018041,0.00341,0.005845,-0.002676,-0.002202,-0.006107,-0.000928,0.001695,0.003294,0.002137,-0.002751,0.000624,-0.00371,0.001479,-0.002771,0.003952
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo17, 0.111547,0.144205,0.003394,-0.030685,0.017234,-0.013945,-0.00094,-0.003923,0.003886,0.02041,0.004384,0.005695,-0.00773,-0.006606,-0.006107,0.009812,0.02021,0.002027,0.004777,0.0017 51,-0.00549,0.004822,0.000123,0.006868,-0.000718
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo19, 0.1161,0.144205,0.001131,-0.032946,0.015387,-0.012271,0.003525,-0.003,0.002045,0.015126,0.000325,0.003147,-0.00446,0.000275,-0.003122,-0.004375,0.001956,0.001014,0.004022,-0.007629,0.000125,-0.001113,0.000246,0.000723,-0.002634
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo20, 0.118376,0.14319,0,-0.026163,0.014156,-0.010877,-0.002115,-0.000231,0.002454,0.020957,-0.001137,0.002997,-0.00669,-0.005505,-0.007872,0.003978,0.023078,-0.003421,-0.004148,-0.004502,-0.005615,-0.000618,0.001356,0.00253,-0.001197
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo21, 0.110408,0.149283,-0.00264,-0.035207,0.025543,-0.009482,-0.00235,-0.001846,0.008999,0.022051,-0.001299,0.007643,-0.00996,-0.001101,-0.00855,-0.015115,-0.016168,0.003801,0.00264,-0.002001,0.000125,0.00136,0.005053,-0.002048,-0.006107
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo22, 0.113823,0.14319,-0.000377,-0.035207,0.014772,-0.013666,-0.00141,-0.003231,0.003272,0.026971,0.000325,0.001499,-0.010704,0.00234,-0.010858,0.000265,0.01017,0.001647,0.004399,0.0011 26,0.000125,0.007048,0.002095,0.005422,-0.001916
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo23, 0.113823,0.153345,0,-0.0323,0.016311,-0.012271,-0.00188,-0.000462,-0.000409,0.020046,0.002436,-0.00045,-0.003717,0.003165,-0.009636,-0.010209,-0.014473,0.000253,-0.004399,-0.007629,-0.008984,0.00136,0.001109,-0.001325,-0.003832
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo9,0 .10927,0.148267,-0.004903,-0.033592,0.012925,-0.012829,0.00188,-0.003692,0.004295,0.01877,-0.00406,0.001948,-0.002379,-0.008257,0.001629,-0.016839,-0.014864,-0.000633,0.002514,-0.003502,-0.0141,0.002473,0.000123,-0.001084,0.000718
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG03,0.113823,0. 148267,0.009051,-0.034884,0.016311,-0.00753,-0.003055,-0.000231,0.007772,0.025331,0.00065,0.003897,-0.008622,-0.002752,-0.005429,-0.001458,0.004694,-0.00076,0.001634,5e-04,-0.008859,-0.003462,0.005669,0.004458,0.001676
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG04,0.117238,0. 147252,0.011691,-0.024225,0.018773,-0.010319,-0.00094,0.000231,0.000818,0.02442,0,0.00015,-0.009068,-0.003441,-0.006922,-0.003315,0.00665,0.002787,0.002891,-0.002376,-0.001373,0.00136,0.000246,-0.000723,0.000479
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG05,0.121791,0. 151314,0.003017,-0.033915,0.021542,-0.014223,0.002115,-0.001846,-0.000818,0.029522,0.000325,0.006594,-0.007136,0.002064,-0.002579,0.001326,0.007432,-0.00152,0.001508,0.000125,-0.002496,0.001607,0.006039,0.005061,0.000239
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG06,0.114961,0. 145221,-0.001508,-0.030685,0.01508,-0.008367,-0.00376,-0.006231,-0.000614,0.026606,0.004872,0.006145,-0.016353,-0.004679,-0.006786,-0.008353,-0.007302,0.002407,-0.001508,-0.01063,-0.000374,0.002844,-0.001972,0,-0.007544
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG07,0.113823,0. 149283,0.001886,-0.029393,0.019696,-0.018686,-0.00752,-0.012461,0.007976,0.0277,-0.004222,0.005995,-0.005649,-0.005367,0.000271,0.00053,-0.00013,-0.000633,-0.003017,-0.005127,-0.002745,0.003339,0.001109,0.001566,0.001557
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG08,0.122929,0. 145221,0.015462,-0.021964,0.030467,-0.004462,0.00141,-0.000462,0.014317,0.026606,-0.002923,0.003597,-0.009514,-0.001514,-0.001493,-0.003447,0.007953,-0.00038,0.003645,-0.003752,-0.005366,-0.00643,0.000863,0.003374,0.00479
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG11,0.114961,0. 148267,0.008297,-0.023256,0.016926,-0.008646,0.00376,-0.002077,0.005522,0.025331,0.00406,0.006594,-0.011447,-0.00523,-0.000407,0.009281,0.016168,0.002407,0.002765,0.000 375,-0.001497,-0.002597,-0.005916,0.001325,-0.004191
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG12,0.121791,0. 145221,0.014331,-0.024225,0.020311,-0.005578,0.00423,0.004615,0.006749,0.02278,-0.005846,0.006444,-0.011893,-0.014175,0.0038,-0.001458,0.011343,0.00114,0.000251,-0.005127,-0.002496,0.003462,-0.001972,0.006025,0.000359
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG15,0.112685,0. 147252,0.00792,-0.029393,0.021235,-0.004741,-0.003995,-0.003231,0.005318,0.024966,-0.000325,0.009142,-0.011744,-0.012799,-0.00285,0.012066,0.015776,-0.000127,0.001383,0.005002,-0.00549,0.006677,-0.001232,0.006266,-0.007185
Altaic:Altaian:altai280p,0.055773,-0.291457,0.065242,-0.00646,-0.06155,-0.024263,0.00987,0.020076,-0.004704,0.010752,-0.024196,-0.004346,0.005352,-0.001239,-0.00855,0.001061,-0.001043,-0.006588,0.005405,0.018634,-0.029074,0.008037,-0.017994,-0.000361,0.005029
Altaic:Altaian:altai283p,0.059188,-0.287395,0.067882,-0.007752,-0.054779,-0.023706,0.013631,0.013615,-0.00225,-0.000182,-0.013803,-0.00045,-0.006541,-0.012937,-0.005022,-0.000133,-0.010431,-0.001774,0.013198,0.014132,-0.021213,0.00371,-0.019103,-0.005663,0.00491
Altaic:Altaian:altai363p,0.055773,-0.304659,0.068636,-0.00969,-0.064012,-0.021753,0.014571,0.018692,0.011044,0.002734,-0.024358,0.002548,0.004014,-0.011423,0.007872,0.006364,-0.000522,0.003421,0.007039,0.014632,-0.020838,0.001237,-0.015776,0.005904,-0.012933
Altaic:Altaian:altai419A,0.061464,-0.27724,0.061848,-0.006137,-0.060627,-0.022311,0.011516,0.015461,-0.000409,0.005467,-0.017538,-0.003597,-0.000595,-0.015689,-0.00855,0.00053,0.003781,0,0.018352,0.011881,-0.016097,0.004699,-0.007518,-0.002048,-0.007065
Altaic:Altaian:altai431k,0.054635,-0.281302,0.071653,-0.009367,-0.065551,-0.027331,0.009635,0.010846,0.004704,-0.00893,-0.013316,-0.006744,-0.001635,-0.01679,0.0019,0.002121,-0.005607,-0.001647,0.011439,0.017008,-0.033566,-0.009645,-0.010723,-0.003133,-0.000838
Germanic:German1,0.12862,0.132019,0.05242,0.042959 ,0.051086,0.025379,0.006345,0.006692,-0.005727,-0.005285,-0.016888,0.003447,-0.002973,-0.007019,0.011536,0.007027,-0.001173,-0.002407,-0.002765,0.002876,0.007112,-0.005193,-0.001232,0.01217,-0.000479
Germanic:German10,0.118376,0.127957,0.060339,0.043 928,0.040623,0.005299,-0.00188,0.010615,0.002659,-0.002187,-0.001949,-0.002698,-0.002973,-0.003303,-0.002579,0.003978,-0.00326,0.011402,0.001383,0.004752,-0.004742,0.005935,0.007888,0.016026,-0.00012
Germanic:German11,0.121791,0.137096,0.059585,0.046 189,0.037238,0.025658,-0.003525,-0.003231,0.008385,-0.008383,-0.008769,-0.002698,0.005054,0.010597,0.009772,-0.017104,-0.011343,0.009122,-0.006536,0.002751,-0.001872,0.008161,0.009983,0.008314,-0.001916
Germanic:German12,0.12862,0.141159,0.050911,0.0458 66,0.036007,0.021196,0.000235,0.002538,0.00634,-0.005285,-0.009581,0.003897,0.002825,-0.012524,0.022122,0.01843,0.007953,-0.000507,0.004902,0.007379,-0.006988,0.004328,-0.00493,0.012652,0.003473
Germanic:German13,0.12862,0.126941,0.079572,0.0542 64,0.038161,0.025937,0.003995,0.009,0.002045,-0.014579,-0.004222,-0.015137,0.001189,0.009083,0.001221,0.001724,-0.013038,-0.00038,0.006536,0.00988,0.000125,-0.003957,0.003574,-0.013134,0.001676
Germanic:German77,0.132035,0.132019,0.065619,0.046 512,0.038469,0.022032,0.002585,0.008307,-0.001023,-0.002734,-0.008119,-0.002997,0.00446,0.004266,0.011808,0.012994,0.0009 13,0.002154,-0.005279,0.009004,-0.000125,0.005564,-0.000863,0.015424,-0.002634
Germanic:German78,0.134311,0.139128,0.053551,0.036 499,0.037853,0.016733,0.003525,0.000923,0.009613,-0.003098,-0.002598,0.005395,-0.010109,-0.000413,0.012215,-0.002519,-0.023078,0.008742,0.00088,0.005002,0.008235,0.0030 91,-0.001232,0.013978,-0.003353
Germanic:German79,0.120652,0.14319,0.056568,0.0313 31,0.049548,0.009203,-0.00094,0.016845,-0.007567,0.010934,-0.008769,0.003897,-0.022002,-0.017203,0.006379,0.004243,0.008736,0.003801,-0.000754,0.010755,0.007986,0.00272,-0.00986,0.008796,0.003473
Germanic:German8,0.134311,0.149283,0.055814,0.0471 58,0.040007,0.02761,0.012691,0.008307,0.012271,-0.007107,-0.002436,-0.006294,-0.003568,0.010184,0.00665,-0.006762,0.001956,0.001647,-0.010684,-0.000625,0.003993,-0.002349,-0.00456,-0.003494,-0.001796
Germanic:German9,0.125205,0.147252,0.065619,0.0445 74,0.041854,0.006972,0.00752,0.012692,-0.001841,0.000182,-0.000812,0.003747,-0.007136,-0.007019,0.012079,0.018695,0.008996,0.003294,0.001 634,0.004252,0.000624,-0.005812,0.011955,0.01446,0.002155

[Gallop]

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 4.3389% / 0.04338875
48.4 Germanic
28.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
22.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
0.6 Altaic



Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.05748684 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG08
0.05926612 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG12
0.06554709 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG04
0.06680517 Germanic:German79
0.06692185 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG11
0.06912317 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG15
0.07098942 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG03
0.07187848 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG07
0.07251414 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo16
0.07476895 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo15
0.07504307 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo21
0.07564036 Germanic:German78
0.07646774 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG06
0.07677826 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo19
0.07685865 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria:PG05
0.07850970 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo17
0.07885727 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo20
0.08115274 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo22
0.08122437 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo23
0.08125823 Germanic:German10
0.08149625 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo9
0.08216483 Germanic:German9
0.08224356 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo13
0.08311985 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo14
0.08446256 Germanic:German8
0.08463154 Germanic:German1
0.08503420 Germanic:German12
0.08849367 Germanic:German11
0.09092488 Germanic:German77
0.10030918 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1
0.10298832 Germanic:German13
0.12423623 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2
0.44207284 Altaic:Altaian:altai419A
0.44987567 Altaic:Altaian:altai431k
0.45160840 Altaic:Altaian:altai283p
0.45870652 Altaic:Altaian:altai280p
0.47000313 Altaic:Altaian:altai363p

[gixajo]

My results with G25 model:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.8282% / 0.03828236
53.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
46.6 Germanic

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 4.0041% / 0.04004051
67.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
31.8 Germanic
0.6 South_Paleo_Balkan

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 4.2067% / 0.04206739
58.2 Germanic
41.8 North_Paleo_Balkan

My results with K13:

Target: gixajo(mixed South/North Spain)
Distance: 17.5863% / 17.58626325
65.6 Germanic
34.4 North_PaleoBalk

Target: gixajo_dad (South Spain)
Distance: 16.8378% / 16.83779355
53.2 North_PaleoBalk
46.8 Germanic

Target: gixajo_mom(North Spain)
Distance: 18.8015% / 18.80147765
74.6 Germanic
25.4 North_PaleoBalk

[Defcon2]

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.5548% / 0.04554757
44.0 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo21
34.6 Germanic:German79
15.4 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria: PG08
4.6 Germanic:German11
1.4 Altaic:Altaian:altai363p

[gixajo]

I am not from Balkans, so I guess my results don´t interest anyone, I am curious about see both results from actual people from Balkans, to see differences between K13 and G25.

[17571imre]

too many samples for a Balkan calc also some samples are not that Germanic:
Andre used only 4 samples and clear samples.

Target: Germanic:German13
Distance: 2.6753% / 0.02675261 | ADC: 0.5x
46.2 Polish
26.8 Swedish
13.6 Cossack_Ukrainian
9.8 German_East
2.4 Finnish
1.2 Lithuanian_PZ


Target: Germanic:German77
Distance: 1.9630% / 0.01962988 | ADC: 0.5x
38.2 Norwegian
21.8 Czech
20.8 Slovakian
14.0 German
5.2 Icelandic


Target: Germanic:German9
Distance: 3.0100% / 0.03010035 | ADC: 0.5x
34.4 Welsh
24.6 Slovakian
12.0 Danish
12.0 French_Pas-de-Calais
12.0 German
4.4 Dutch
0.6 Norwegian

[gixajo]

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.5548% / 0.04554757
44.0 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo21
34.6 Germanic:German79
15.4 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria: PG08
4.6 Germanic:German11
1.4 Altaic:Altaian:altai363p

And your results in the K13 model?

You are also Spanish so your results are so useless than mines.:)

[gixajo]

As Spaniards we are basically half-moors, I add Mar_Taforalt references to obtain better distances:


MAR_Taforalt:TAF009,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
MAR_Taforalt:TAF010,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
MAR_Taforalt:TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
MAR_Taforalt:TAF013,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
MAR_Taforalt:TAF014,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693

[Gallop]

FTDNA gave me 10% in that area

[gixajo]

Confirmed, we are half moorish:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.6876% / 0.03687558
48.8 Germanic
48.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
2.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 3.7223% / 0.03722276
61.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
35.2 Germanic
3.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 4.0095% / 0.04009489
62.0 Germanic
35.2 North_Paleo_Balkan
2.8 MAR_Taforalt

[Grace O'Malley]

Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 2.6858% / 0.02685787
40.2 Germanic:German12
35.8 Germanic:German78
11.6 Germanic:German77
6.4 Germanic:German13
6.0 Germanic:German79

Target: Grace_scaled
Distance: 2.6858% / 0.02685787
100.0 Germanic

Not for me so I'll just be a test subject.

[Gallop]

Yo en Gedmatch Q t Machine no he obtenido resultados con Tarofalt así que a los resultados que nos dan en G25 le pueden dar por culo, no sé lo que habrán hecho con las coordenadas pero confío más en la comparación de Gedmatch y en mi intuición femenina al respecto de Tarofalt, Taforalt o como coño se llame.

:)

[gixajo]

FTDNA gave me 10% in that area

I got 3%, with the MyHeritage raw data, I don't think it indicates any clear ancestry from that area, but I can't deny it either. :dunno:

[Gallop]

I got 3%, with the MyHeritage raw data, I don't think it indicates any clear ancestry from that area, but I can't deny it either. :dunno:

Tendrás tropecientos mil Ilirios en MTA como todos nuestros paísanos, los scy197b, 300, 301 e.t.c de Moldava que eran tan particulares, Dalmacian, yo por lo menos he sacado un montonaco.

[mitalit]

Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 2.8354% / 0.02835401
51.2 North_Paleo_Balkan
47.2 Germanic
1.6 Altaic

[gixajo]

Yo en Gedmatch Q t Machine no he obtenido resultados con Tarofalt así que a los resultados que nos dan en G25 le pueden dar por culo, no sé lo que habrán hecho con las coordenadas pero confío más en la comparación de Gedmatch y en mi intuición femenina al respecto de Tarofalt Taforalt o como coño se llame.

:)

¿Qué quieres que te cuente que no sepamos ya todos? Nos han unido a esa referencia, no habrá modelo para Ibéricos en la que falte. Es lo que hay, a mí francamente me importa un bledo.:D

[gixajo]

too many samples for a Balkan calc also some samples are not that Germanic:
Andre used only 4 samples and clear samples.

Target: Germanic:German13
Distance: 2.6753% / 0.02675261 | ADC: 0.5x
46.2 Polish
26.8 Swedish
13.6 Cossack_Ukrainian
9.8 German_East
2.4 Finnish
1.2 Lithuanian_PZ


Target: Germanic:German77
Distance: 1.9630% / 0.01962988 | ADC: 0.5x
38.2 Norwegian
21.8 Czech
20.8 Slovakian
14.0 German
5.2 Icelandic


Target: Germanic:German9
Distance: 3.0100% / 0.03010035 | ADC: 0.5x
34.4 Welsh
24.6 Slovakian
12.0 Danish
12.0 French_Pas-de-Calais
12.0 German
4.4 Dutch
0.6 Norwegian

So we can put averages if you prefer, or I can add my average with German+Dutch, lets see now the west germany reference form k13 and do the same:

Target: German_West
Distance: 0.2863% / 0.28632205
52.2 Norwegian
18.4 Southwest_English
5.6 Bulgarian_Burgas
5.0 AostaValley
4.4 Macedonian_Greece
3.8 Welsh
3.2 Macedonian_North
3.2 Swiss_German
1.2 Albanian_Montenegro
1.0 Austrian
0.6 Trentino
0.4 North-Dutch
0.2 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.2 Laz
0.2 She
0.2 South_Polish
0.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

[17571imre]

So we can put averages if you prefer, or I can add my average with German+Dutch, lets see now the west germany reference form k13 and do the same:

Target: German_West
Distance: 0.2863% / 0.28632205
52.2 Norwegian
18.4 Southwest_English
5.6 Bulgarian_Burgas
5.0 AostaValley
4.4 Macedonian_Greece
3.8 Welsh
3.2 Macedonian_North
3.2 Swiss_German
1.2 Albanian_Montenegro
1.0 Austrian
0.6 Trentino
0.4 North-Dutch
0.2 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.2 Laz
0.2 She
0.2 South_Polish
0.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

i think its a good idea from you to put German and Dutch as an average or maybe just the Dutch average could also work. yes but that is with 0 ADC use 0.5 ADC because there are so many samples in K13 source then you will get rid of all those little precentages.

[Defcon2]

As Spaniards we are basically half-moors, I add Mar_Taforalt references to obtain better distances:


MAR_Taforalt:TAF009,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
MAR_Taforalt:TAF010,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
MAR_Taforalt:TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
MAR_Taforalt:TAF013,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
MAR_Taforalt:TAF014,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693

The old North African trick, why don't you use guanche?

:rolleyes:

[gixajo]

i think its a good idea from you to put German and Dutch as an average or maybe just the Dutch average could also work. yes but that is with 0 ADC use 0.5 ADC because there are so many samples in K13 source then you will get rid of all those little precentages.
I was having lunch, sorry.

I made the model in 5 minutes, so I didn´t check well all the sources, simply I posted them. I will post the new references.

It's funny that you think that's the only dubious reference, don´t you find dubious two modern Italian samples to represent ancient Balkans but you think that German reference is not enough Germanic?

The people here never cease to amaze me.

[mitalit]

As Spaniards we are basically half-moors, I add Mar_Taforalt references to obtain better distances:


MAR_Taforalt:TAF009,-0.162767,0.07718,-0.024513,-0.079135,0.009848,-0.047969,-0.052877,0.020538,0.13294,0.002005,0.025333,-0.026676,0.057978,-0.052985,0.072882,-0.034076,0.002347,-0.05625,-0.130475,0.04152,-0.026204,-0.120314,0.067909,-0.016508,0.012334
MAR_Taforalt:TAF010,-0.193499,0.083273,-0.03017,-0.088502,0.034776,-0.055499,-0.076378,0.019384,0.163619,0.008565,0.02111,-0.030573,0.07879,-0.046104,0.077496,-0.046141,-0.00665,-0.069805,-0.144176,0.036518,-0.042924,-0.129217,0.07629,-0.015303,0.018322
MAR_Taforalt:TAF011,-0.194638,0.085304,-0.021873,-0.088825,0.026774,-0.059961,-0.072148,0.019845,0.161165,0.002551,0.016564,-0.035818,0.080574,-0.051196,0.066367,-0.037523,0.012126,-0.071199,-0.14493,0.035767,-0.041427,-0.12662,0.068279,-0.011447,0.018441
MAR_Taforalt:TAF013,-0.196914,0.082258,-0.026398,-0.088502,0.032314,-0.057173,-0.074733,0.017768,0.156665,0.002369,0.02111,-0.036717,0.077898,-0.052159,0.072746,-0.038584,0.000913,-0.069552,-0.141285,0.039894,-0.035687,-0.125384,0.075428,-0.011206,0.020477
MAR_Taforalt:TAF014,-0.201467,0.079211,-0.018479,-0.083011,0.034468,-0.055499,-0.076848,0.014538,0.162596,0.002005,0.020461,-0.029374,0.078344,-0.054223,0.066503,-0.025192,0.017602,-0.063724,-0.151215,0.04127,-0.042176,-0.126126,0.077153,-0.014339,0.012693

Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 2.5097% / 0.02509712
50.4 Germanic
45.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
3.0 MAR_Taforalt
1.0 Altaic

[17571imre]

I was having lunch, sorry.

I made the model in 5 minutes, so I didn´t check well all the sources, simply I posted them. I will post the new references.

It's funny that you think that's the only dubious reference, don´t you find dubious two modern Italian samples to represent ancient Balkans but you think that German reference is not enough Germanic?

The people here never cease to amaze me.

well on Gedmatch most SouthEastern European people get mixed population of Something Eastern European like Belarussian and someting Italian/Greek like Tuscany or Abruzzo or Greek. because before the migration of Slavic people the people who lived in Southeastern Europe were Italian/Greek like so i understand why modern Italian samples are used. somebody can correct me if im wrong.

[gixajo]

i think its a good idea from you to put German and Dutch as an average or maybe just the Dutch average could also work. yes but that is with 0 ADC use 0.5 ADC because there are so many samples in K13 source then you will get rid of all those little precentages.

Here you have, I changed my first post to make those the "official" references:


Germanic:Ger+Dutch,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.0595375 0,0.04242800,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00 693350,0.00355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0 .057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.00429 5,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305, 0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria,0.117111,0.14747 7,0.007794,-0.027994,0.020038,-0.009172,-0.000862,-0.00241,0.005227,0.025918,-0.000379,0.005395,-0.010158,-0.005321,-0.002488,0.000575,0.006954,0.000591,0.001061,-0.002334,-0.003411,0.000756,0.000315,0.003039,-0.001091
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo,0.112685,0.1488 01,-0.000675,-0.034765,0.016116,-0.01255,0.000779,-0.002283,0.003789,0.020813,0.000513,0.003668,-0.005633,-0.003904,-0.00615,-0.001466,0.00186,0.000267,0.003361,-0.003693,-0.003809,0.001334,0.000889,0.001706,-0.000964
Altaic:Altaian,0.057367,-0.28841,0.067052,-0.007881,-0.061304,-0.023873,0.011845,0.015738,0.001677,0.001968,-0.018642,-0.002518,0.000119,-0.011615,-0.00247,0.001989,-0.002764,-0.001318,0.011087,0.015257,-0.024157,0.001607,-0.014223,-0.00106,-0.002179

[gixajo]

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 4.3409% / 0.04340919
51.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
48.2 Germanic

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 4.5444% / 0.04544380
67.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
32.4 Germanic

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 4.7520% / 0.04751987
58.6 Germanic
41.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
*****************************************
Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 4.3410% / 0.04340971 | ADC: 0.25x
52.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
48.0 Germanic

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 4.5458% / 0.04545783 | ADC: 0.25x
68.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
31.2 Germanic

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 4.7523% / 0.04752313 | ADC: 0.25x
59.2 Germanic
40.8 South_Paleo_Balkan

K13 results:

************************************************** ***
My results with K13:

Target: gixajo(mixed South/North Spain)
Distance: 17.5863% / 17.58626325
65.6 Germanic
34.4 North_PaleoBalk

Target: gixajo_dad (South Spain)
Distance: 16.8378% / 16.83779355
53.2 North_PaleoBalk
46.8 Germanic

Target: gixajo_mom(North Spain)
Distance: 18.8015% / 18.80147765
74.6 Germanic
25.4 North_PaleoBalk

[17571imre]

my results and my mothers one:
mother:
Target: cb_scaled
Distance: 2.2732% / 0.02273152
57.4 Slavic
28.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
10.6 Germanic
3.8 Altaic

mine:
Target: mh_scaled
Distance: 1.4577% / 0.01457666
44.4 Slavic
37.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
18.2 Germanic
0.4 Altaic

[J. Ketch]

What is the point in representing ancient Paleo-Balkans with modern Central and Southern Italians, when there are ancient Balkan samples? Same for using the modern German average as Germanic.

Don't understand the point in all these modern calculators either. Doesn't everybody know what they are already?

[Impaler]

Target: Impaler
Distance: 3.0844% / 0.03084413
63.2 North_Paleo_Balkan
24.2 Slavic
6.8 Altaic
5.8 Germanic

[gixajo]

The old North African trick, why don't you use guanche?

:rolleyes:

With Mar_Taforalt and Guanche:


Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche,-0.0393828,0.1314096,-0.0023384,-0.0687344,0.0337292,-0.0363672,-0.0299874,0.008261,0.0708878,0.0305428,0.0075674,-0.0059948,0.0182554,-0.0176982,0.0232082,-0.0130468,0.0031814,-0.019206,-0.044321,0.010405,-0.0134762,-0.0377142,0.0232692,-0.0011806,0.0046224
Moorish:MAR_Taforalt,-0.189857,0.0814452,-0.0242866,-0.085595,0.027636,-0.0552202,-0.0705968,0.0184146,0.155397,0.003499,0.0209156,-0.0318316,0.0747168,-0.0513334,0.0711988,-0.0363032,0.0052676,-0.066106,-0.1424162,0.0389938,-0.0376836,-0.1255322,0.0730118,-0.0137606,0.0164534

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 4.1410% / 0.04140971
51.8 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
41.4 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
6.8 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.0 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.0 Altaic:Altaian
0.0 Moorish:MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 4.0624% / 0.04062366
51.4 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
38.0 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
10.6 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.0 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.0 Altaic:Altaian
0.0 Moorish:MAR_Taforalt

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 4.5081% / 0.04508114
62.8 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
29.4 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
7.8 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.0 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.0 Altaic:Altaian
0.0 Moorish:MAR_Taforalt


Distance to: gixajo_scaled
0.06549577 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.06826583 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.07833554 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.10768258 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.20999466 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.45290775 Moorish:MAR_Taforalt
0.46114543 Altaic:Altaian

Distance to: gixajo_dad_scaled
0.05608689 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.06773402 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.08250195 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.11996876 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.19596727 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.44297540 Moorish:MAR_Taforalt
0.46285214 Altaic:Altaian

Distance to: gixajo_mom_scaled
0.06346330 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.07627679 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.08799460 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.10388621 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.21447834 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.45538158 Moorish:MAR_Taforalt
0.46212967 Altaic:Altaian

[Defcon2]

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 4.4113% / 0.04411258
45.0 Germanic
38.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
16.2 Moorish

[Kyp]

My mother:

G25:
Target: MotherKyp_scaled
Distance: 1.3504% / 0.01350436
74.4 Germanic
16.6 Slavic
9.0 South_Paleo_Balkan


k15:
Target: MotherKyp(SouthGerman)
Distance: 3.1678% / 3.16779749
82.4 Germanic
17.6 Slavic



Myself:

G25:
Target: Kyp_scaled
Distance: 2.6547% / 0.02654665
53.4 Azeri_Iran
28.8 Germanic
16.4 Slavic
1.4 North_Paleo_Balkan

k15:
Target: Kyp(Azeri+German)
Distance: 2.9194% / 2.91935299
43.4 Azeri
36.0 Germanic
13.4 Slavic
7.2 South_PaleoBalk

[gixajo]

What is the point in representing ancient Paleo-Balkans with modern Central and Southern Italians, when there are ancient Balkan samples? Same for using the modern German average as Germanic.

Don't understand the point in all these modern calculators either. Doesn't everybody know what they are already?

Ask the author of the model, I simply copied it with G25 similar references.:D

[gixajo]

Target: Impaler
Distance: 3.0844% / 0.03084413
63.2 North_Paleo_Balkan
24.2 Slavic
6.8 Altaic
5.8 Germanic

Do you see differences with the model made with K13 references? Which ones?

[gixajo]

my results and my mothers one:
mother:
Target: cb_scaled
Distance: 2.2732% / 0.02273152
57.4 Slavic
28.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
10.6 Germanic
3.8 Altaic

mine:
Target: mh_scaled
Distance: 1.4577% / 0.01457666
44.4 Slavic
37.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
18.2 Germanic
0.4 Altaic

And k13 original model results? Have they many diffreneces?

[gixajo]

My mother:

alk

try the original model with k13 references, please:https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?329730-Andre-s-K13-Vahaduo-calculator-to-gauge-Slavic-Balkanic-Germanic-Altaic-admixture

[Kyp]

My mother:

G25:
Target: MotherKyp_scaled
Distance: 1.3504% / 0.01350436
74.4 Germanic
16.6 Slavic
9.0 South_Paleo_Balkan


k15:
Target: MotherKyp(SouthGerman)
Distance: 3.1678% / 3.16779749
82.4 Germanic
17.6 Slavic



Myself:

G25:
Target: Kyp_scaled
Distance: 2.6547% / 0.02654665
53.4 Azeri_Iran
28.8 Germanic
16.4 Slavic
1.4 North_Paleo_Balkan

k15:
Target: Kyp(Azeri+German)
Distance: 2.9194% / 2.91935299
43.4 Azeri
36.0 Germanic
13.4 Slavic
7.2 South_PaleoBalk

Do you guys think my Slavic is legit (see in quote)?

[Impaler]

Do you see differences with the model made with K13 references? Which ones?

Yes, the fit is better here.

[gixajo]

Target: Impaler
Distance: 3.0844% / 0.03084413
63.2 North_Paleo_Balkan
24.2 Slavic
6.8 Altaic
5.8 Germanic

my results and my mothers one:
mother:
Target: cb_scaled
Distance: 2.2732% / 0.02273152
57.4 Slavic
28.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
10.6 Germanic
3.8 Altaic

mine:
Target: mh_scaled
Distance: 1.4577% / 0.01457666
44.4 Slavic
37.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
18.2 Germanic
0.4 Altaic
Sorry, I named wrongly Balkans references, North is South, and South is North.

I have corrected them in sources.

:picard1:

[J. Ketch]

Ask the author of the model, I simply copied it with G25 similar references.:D
There are too many calculators. Vahaduo was a mistake.

[gixajo]

There are too many calculators. Vahaduo was a mistake.

No, it´s not a mistake.

The mistake is in persons who used it, and how some people use it. Same for k13 or any other similar tool.

The mistake is inside the human being mind, not in the tools that human beings made.

[Rocinante]

Yo estoy orgulloso de sacar 6% de Taforalt, ya que representa un toque spicy antiquísimo en mi ADN.

[gixajo]

Yo estoy orgulloso de sacar 6% de Taforalt, ya que representa un toque spicy antiquísimo en mi ADN.

Un pequeño toque exótico venido de hace miles de años. Y otro tanto, posiblemente también de hace unos cuantos cientos de años, ninguno de los dos orígenes cuantificable ni fácilmente discrimable entre sí.

También pondría en duda el %, una vez conocida la forma en la que se calculan los porcentajes en los resultados. Pero eso es otra cuestión.

Exotic touch.:D

[Pedro Ruben]

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 5.0715% / 0.05071505
42.8 Germanic
29.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
26.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
1.0 Altaic

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 3.3330% / 0.03333041
48.6 Germanic
42.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
8.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 2.8191% / 0.02819127
52.4 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
25.4 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
22.2 Moorish:Canary_Islands_Guanche

[Rocinante]

Un pequeño toque exótico venido de hace miles de años. Y otro tanto, posiblemente también de hace unos cuantos cientos de años, ninguno de los dos orígenes cuantificable ni fácilmente discrimable entre sí.

También pondría en duda el %, una vez conocida la forma en la que se calculan los porcentajes en los resultados. Pero eso es otra cuestión.

Exotic touch.:D

Yo creo que las condiciones son las mismas para todos, si a alguien le sale un % de algo, y los demas no, es facil analizarlo: Uno tiene y el otro, no tiene. No se el porque dudas del taforalt cuando es la muestra mas antigua que se tiene del Norte de Africa, en cuanto a datacion por radiocarbono y haplogrupos E1b1 presentes en España, la cuestion esta en la antiguedad de nuestro Taforalt, el cual yo creo que es en mayoria por fenicios y tartesos y no por periodo islamico.

[Luke35]

This is much better than Andre's K13 calculator, for me. Distances are lower, and the Germanic % assignment here is consistent with how my coordinates perform on other G25 calculators.

Target: Mr.G_scaled
Distance: 1.3526% / 0.01352639
61.6 Germanic
18.0 Slavic
12.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
6.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
1.6 Altaic

Target: Mr.G_mom_scaled
Distance: 1.4712% / 0.01471162
87.6 Germanic
12.4 South_Paleo_Balkan
0.0 Altaic
0.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
0.0 Slavic

Target: Mr.G_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.4628% / 0.02462813
41.4 Slavic
29.2 Germanic
24.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
4.6 Altaic
0.0 South_Paleo_Balkan

-------------------------------------------

G25 Hungarian average

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.9816% / 0.00981644
50.8 Slavic
29.2 Germanic
18.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
1.2 Altaic
0.0 South_Paleo_Balkan

G25 German average

Target: German
Distance: 0.4564% / 0.00456406
81.2 Germanic
11.2 Slavic
7.6 South_Paleo_Balkan
0.0 Altaic
0.0 North_Paleo_Balkan

[gixajo]

Yo creo que las condiciones son las mismas para todos, si a alguien le sale un % de algo, y los demas no, es facil analizarlo: Uno tiene y el otro, no tiene. No se el porque dudas del taforalt cuando es la muestra mas antigua que se tiene del Norte de Africa, en cuanto a datacion por radiocarbono y haplogrupos E1b1 presentes en España, la cuestion esta en la antiguedad de nuestro Taforalt, el cual yo creo que es en mayoria por fenicios y tartesos y no por periodo islamico.

No, no dudo del Taforalt en sí. Dudo de la forma de calcular los % de los resultados que hace que una referencia que está 90 veces a la distancia de mi primera referencia, me dé persistentemente el mismo procentaje, la use en el calculador o modelo que la use. Esa precisión en marcarme ese componente con tanta precisión,y que practicamente me da el mismo porcentaje cada vez que lo uso se me hace un poco sospechosa.

Las cosas demasiado perfectas, son sospechosas, otros componentes aparecen o desaparecen según las referencias que uses o cambian su %, este a veces tambien, pero es extrañamente persistente y estable, incluso mucho más que cualquier referencia moderna cercana.

No sé si me explico, igual me está convenciendo un poco la tesis de Gallop.;)

[Rocinante]

No, no dudo del Taforalt en sí. Dudo de la forma de calcular los % de los resultados que hace que una referencia que está 90 veces a la distancia de mi primera referencia, me dé persistentemente el mismo procentaje, la use en el calculador o modelo que la use. Esa precisión en marcarme ese componente con tanta precisión,y que practicamente me da el mismo porcentaje cada vez que lo uso se me hace un poco sospechosa.

Las cosas demasiado perfectas, son sospechosas, otros componentes aparecen o desaparecen según las referencias que uses o cambian su %, este a veces tambien, pero es extrañamente persistente y estable, incluso mucho más que cualquier referencia moderna cercana.

No sé si me explico, igual me está convenciendo un poco la tesis de Gallop.;)

Si los otros componentes te desaparecen es porque se lo esta comiendo una referencia muy cercana a ellas, esto es por PCA, dependiendo donde te ubiquen en el espacio XY, los componentes que mas tengas cerca son los que van a salir. En el caso de taforalt, el que más cerca esta en el Natufian, pero nunca o casi nunca le sale a los españoles porque no hay una fuerte ancestria levantina (esto incluso se puede apreciar por la poca presencia del J1) y porque tira más hacia el lado contrario del Anatolia Neolithic. Todo tiene explicación, esto es simple matemática desde el XY.

[Gallop]

Gixajo puedes poner en G25 en la fuente a tus dos padres más Tarofalt y tú coordenada en Tarjet, tengo curiosidad por ver qué saldría.

[gixajo]

Gixajo puedes poner en G25 en la fuente a tus dos padres más Tarofalt y tú coordenada en Tarjet, tengo curiosidad por ver qué saldría.

Supongo que no debería salirme Mar_Taforalt, no creo que salga, pero si saliera...

[gixajo]

Gixajo puedes poner en G25 en la fuente a tus dos padres más Tarofalt y tú coordenada en Tarjet, tengo curiosidad por ver qué saldría.

No, no sale , sería demasiado cantoso algo así:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6473% / 0.01647267
50.0 gixajo_dad_scaled
50.0 gixajo_mom_scaled
0.0 MAR_Taforalt

Y con Guanche:

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 1.6473% / 0.01647267
50.0 gixajo_dad_scaled
50.0 gixajo_mom_scaled
0.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
0.0 MAR_Taforalt

Pero sabes? Da la casualidad que en el G25, mi madre tiene la misma cantidad de NA que yo, mientras que mi padre tiene casi el doble, así que ...

¿Comprendes lo que implica esto que acabo de decir? Así que igual, si me pongo a mi madre y a mí de sources junto con las referencias NA y a mi padre de target igual...

[gixajo]

Gixajo puedes poner en G25 en la fuente a tus dos padres más Tarofalt y tú coordenada en Tarjet, tengo curiosidad por ver qué saldría.

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 1.8921% / 0.01892147
91.2 gixajo_scaled
7.2 Canary_Islands_Guanche
1.6 gixajo_mom_scaled
0.0 MAR_Taforalt

Así claro que sale.

[gixajo]

Gixajo puedes poner en G25 en la fuente a tus dos padres más Tarofalt y tú coordenada en Tarjet, tengo curiosidad por ver qué saldría.

Mira con el k13...

Target: gixajo
Distance: 3.5048% / 3.50479646
67.6 gixajo_mom
29.2 gixajo_dad
3.2 Taforalt2_Morocco_

[gixajo]

Y con las referencias Guanches del K13...:rolleyes:

Target: gixajo
Distance: 3.5048% / 3.50479646
67.6 gixajo_mom
29.2 gixajo_dad
3.2 Taforalt2_Morocco_
0.0 Taforalt1_Morocco_
0.0 gun002_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_861_ybp
0.0 gun005_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_994_ybp
0.0 gun008_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1015_ybp
0.0 gun011_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1159_ybp
0.0 gun012_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1329_ybp

[gixajo]

Persistente y estable, curioso, ¿No?

[gixajo]

y aunque sé que el % de los resultados no se saca solamente con la distancia a la referencia, esto también es curioso:

Distance to: gixajo
5.69502414 gixajo_mom
5.98177231 gixajo_dad
33.99723518 gun005_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_994_ybp
39.19182440 gun008_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1015_ybp
42.04924613 gun011_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1159_ybp
43.07701475 gun012_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1329_ybp
43.11755675 gun002_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_861_ybp
61.14454677 Taforalt1_Morocco_
61.68889689 Taforalt2_Morocco_

El algoritmo pasa a través de las referencias Guanches en el K13, y va directamente a marcar un procentaje sí o sí con Mar_Taforalt, que está a más distancia. ¿Tan centrado pasa respecto a la proyección del algoritmo esas referencias como para marcar esa ancestría tan claramente?

Igual llevo demasiado tiempo en este foro y empiezo a ponerme conspiranoico.:)

Con esto no digo que no tengamos esa mezcla en nosotros, solo que ese componente parece tener una querencia muy particular por todos nosotros, tan especial que sí podría dar la impresión de que es algo artificial.

Pero no tengo ahora mismo ninguna certeza de que sea así.

[Gallop]

Mira con el k13...

Target: gixajo
Distance: 3.5048% / 3.50479646
67.6 gixajo_mom
29.2 gixajo_dad
3.2 Taforalt2_Morocco_


Según wikipedia Taforalt data del 20.000 y los restos de hace 15.000 ac y leí que eran muestras muy deterioradas.

Incredibile xd ni con agua caliente, vamos un ticket de abono para los españoles modernos más que un resultado xd

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/march/ancient-human-dna-recovered-from-the-oldest-cemetery-in-africa.html

The results show that the people shared genetic ancestry with populations from both the Near East and sub-Saharan Africa, but not from Europe.

Challenging environmental conditions in many parts of Africa mean that ancient DNA is poorly preserved.

I do not see the scientific information that exists on Tarofalt bones coherent with the persistence of Tarofalt from G25 in the results of modern Spaniards

[gixajo]

Según wikipedia Taforalt data del 20.000 antes de Cristo y leí que eran muestras muy deterioradas.

Incredibile xd ni con agua caliente, vamos un ticket de abono para los españoles modernos más que un resultado xd

Creo que hay algunos más en Europa con un "ticket de abono " similar, pero no suelen mostrarlo en sus resultados porque lo ocultan falseando lo que postean,no incluyen continuamente esos componentes molestos en sus modelos como nosotros, o porque no lo han fijado tan bien en origen como para que se muestre continuamente.

Sigo sin saber si es algo intencionado, si muestra algo real o de si simplemente es un efecto fortuito. Está ahí, y sus características son peculiares, eso es todo. No puedo ir más allá.

No entiendo porqué por ejemplo, las compañías comerciales, dan a centroeuropeos , del este de europa o incluso noreuropeos en sus resultados insistentemente porcentajes igualmente persistentes de judío askenazi, mientras que aquí en ningún modelo donde se incluyan referencias de esas partes de Europa añaden referencias judias askenazis continuamente, y si alguna vez las incluyen, resulta que muy pocos de ellos dan nada en ese componente. O de otros componentes habituales no europeos o no totalmente europeos.

Igual es que nosotros, nos guste más o menos este tipo de componentes, lo ocultamos menos? o que intencionadamente o no intencionadamente se produce ese efecto con el G25?

No sé nada, pero desde luego, indicios, cosas curiosas e inusitadas, las hay a porrillo en todo este asunto.

Hay quienes apuntan a que el que controla y crea todo esto del G25 tiene prejuicios claros contra los balcánicos, que los del sur de Europa le importamos bastante poco, y que su área de interés es Europa Noroccidental y Nororiental. Es esto una prueba más de quien dice eso tiene razón, algo fortuito?

No lo sé.:noidea:

[Defcon2]

y aunque sé que el % de los resultados no se saca solamente con la distancia a la referencia, esto también es curioso:

Distance to: gixajo
5.69502414 gixajo_mom
5.98177231 gixajo_dad
33.99723518 gun005_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_994_ybp
39.19182440 gun008_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1015_ybp
42.04924613 gun011_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1159_ybp
43.07701475 gun012_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_1329_ybp
43.11755675 gun002_Canary_Islands_Guanche_mummy.SG_861_ybp
61.14454677 Taforalt1_Morocco_
61.68889689 Taforalt2_Morocco_

El algoritmo pasa a través de las referencias Guanches en el K13, y va directamente a marcar un procentaje sí o sí con Mar_Taforalt, que está a más distancia. ¿Tan centrado pasa respecto a la proyección del algoritmo esas referencias como para marcar esa ancestría tan claramente?

Igual llevo demasiado tiempo en este foro y empiezo a ponerme conspiranoico.:)

Con esto no digo que no tengamos esa mezcla en nosotros, solo que ese componente parece tener una querencia muy particular por todos nosotros, tan especial que sí podría dar la impresión de que es algo artificial.

Pero no tengo ahora mismo ninguna certeza de que sea así.

El algoritmo para qué quiere las muestras guanches? si tu muestra guanche es tu padre que es mucho más parecido a tí. Está eligiendo lo más diferente, en este caso Taforalt para aíslar lo que tienes de NA y mostrarlo.

No veo donde está lo sorprendente.

[Rocinante]

El que niegue la realidad, y también el que la distorsione, ambos están bien equivocados.

[Luso]

Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 5.2297% / 0.05229656
61.4 South_Paleo_Balkan
38.4 Germanic
0.2 Altaic

[Coastal Elite]

Target: DacoCeltic_scaled
Distance: 1.7914% / 0.01791392
62.2 Germanic
30.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
6.2 Slavic
0.8 Altaic

Dad (G25 Estimate)
Target: Dad
Distance: 3.4561% / 0.03456120
69.6 South_Paleo_Balkan
28.6 Slavic
1.8 Altaic

Mom
Target: Daco_mom_scaled
Distance: 2.3858% / 0.02385779
99.4 Germanic
0.6 Slavic

[Caballero]

Target: Caballero_scaled
Distance: 2.6951% / 0.02695102

41.2 North_Paleo_Balkan
38.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
20.8 Slavic

Target: Caballero_scaled
Distance: 2.7091% / 0.02709135 | ADC: 0.25x

54.4 South_Paleo_Balkan
27.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
18.6 Slavic

[Adamg]

Target: adamg
Distance: 1.7629% / 0.01762926
58.8 Germanic
34.6 Slavic
6.6 North_Paleo_Balkan

[Chris596]

Target: Chris_scaled
Distance: 2.1506% / 0.02150612
53.6 Slavic
34.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
9.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
2.8 Altaic

Distance to: Chris_scaled
0.05824171 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.06467035 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.07733463 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.08510104 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.43500262 Altaic:Altaian

-------------------------------------------------------------

Target: ChrisFather
Distance: 4.6089% / 0.04608917
37.2 Slavic
29.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
28.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
4.4 Altaic

Distance to: ChrisFather
0.07194672 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.07766560 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.08905974 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.09568686 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.43103684 Altaic:Altaian

[Nurzat]

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.9081% / 0.01908146
61.2 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
20.2 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
16.6 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
2.0 Altaic:Altaian
0.0 Germanic:Ger+Dutch

[calxpal]

Target: Cpalscaled
Distance: 2.7421% / 0.02742138
65.2 Germanic
18.0 Slavic
16.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
0.8 Altaic

Distance to: Cpalscaled
0.03204673 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.06136246 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.09366215 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.10499483 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.44398746 Altaic:Altaian

[Jana]

Distance: 3.0930% / 0.03092985
Target: Stearsolina_scaled

67.0 Slavic
32.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
0.6 Altaic

Distance: 1.6427% / 0.01642675
Target: Stears_scaled

53.4 Slavic
25.1 South_Paleo_Balkan
17.8 Germanic
3.7 Altaic

[oszkar07]

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.5740% / 0.02573957
58.6 Germanic
31.6 Slavic
9.8 North_Paleo_Balkan

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.5740% / 0.02573957 | ADC: 0.25x RC
58.6 Germanic
31.6 Slavic
9.8 North_Paleo_Balkan

[Dušan]

Target: Dušan_g25
Distance: 1.7322% / 0.01732155
60.8 Slavic
38.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
1.0 Altaic



Target: Dušan_g25
Distance: 1.7322% / 0.01732155
35.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2
25.8 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1
24.0 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo20
14.2 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo23
1.0 Altaic:Altaian:altai280p

[Selene]

Target: Nixie_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.1578% / 0.01157773
65.8 Slavic
29.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
3.8 Germanic
1.0 Altaic

[noricum]

Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.03898596 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.04424075 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.10289835 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.11093800 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.45312375 Altaic:Altaian

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 2.4943% / 0.02494294
52.8 Slavic
31.6 Germanic
15.6 North_Paleo_Balkan

[paradox]

Target: scaled
Distance: 1.7185% / 0.01718480
78.6 South_Paleo_Balkan
19.8 Slavic
1.6 Altaic
---------------
Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 1.7428% / 0.01742795
58.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
40.6 Slavic
0.8 Altaic
0.6 Germanic

[Far_away]

Target: sample_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.1874% / 0.01187399
42.8 Slavic
33.2 South_Paleo_Balkan
24.0 North_Paleo_Balkan

[Dušan]

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.4698% / 0.02469848
56.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2
35.6 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo23
7.8 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo:ItalyAbruzzo21
0.6 Altaic:Altaian:altai280p

[cass]

Target: cass
Distance: 1.1984% / 0.01198439
61.8 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
38.2 Germanic:Ger+Dutch

[Katarzyna]

Target: Katarzyna_scaled
Distance: 1.8917% / 0.01891747
99.4 Slavic
0.6 Altaic

I guess Genghis Khan’s soul is laughing in the steppe

[alexmegas777]

Target: alexmegas_scaled
Distance: 2.2398% / 0.02239775
61.2 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
38.8 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad

[cass]

Target: Katarzyna_scaled
Distance: 1.8917% / 0.01891747
99.4 Slavic
0.6 Altaic

I guess Genghis Khan’s soul is laughing in the steppe

Rather finnish like

Target: Saami_Sweden
Distance: 8.4666% / 0.08466583
63.2 Slavic
36.8 Altaic

Target: Swedish
Distance: 2.1162% / 0.02116229
74.4 Germanic
24.6 Slavic
1.0 Altaic

Target: Finnish_Central
Distance: 4.4544% / 0.04454439
86.0 Slavic
9.0 Altaic
5.0 Germanic

Target: Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
Distance: 1.4533% / 0.01453322
79.6 Slavic
18.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
1.6 Altaic
0.8 Germanic


Target: Russian_Pskov
Distance: 3.2290% / 0.03228987
98.4 Slavic
1.6 Altaic

[mariusz99]

Target: MariuszKorycinski_scaled
Distance: 2.7768% / 0.02776840 | ADC: 0.5x RC
81.8 Slavic
16.4 Germanic
1.8 Altaic

Target: Aneta_scaled
Distance: 2.7466% / 0.02746576 | ADC: 0.5x RC
100.0 Slavic

[Far_away]

Real cords
Distance: 0.0208% / 0.02079484
54.3 South_Paleo_Balkan
34.0 Slavic
11.7 Germanic

[Vitez]

Target: Vitez_scaled
Distance: 0.0128% / 0.01276846
60.0 Slavic
17.9 South_Paleo_Balkan
14.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
6.6 Germanic
0.9 Altaic

[Xavier727]

Scaled
Distance to:
0.03045814 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.06686913 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.10986525 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
0.12182270 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.43981947 Altaic:Altaian

Target:
Distance: 2.4379% / 0.02437675
98.0 Germanic
2.0 Altaic