Log in

View Full Version : Comparing similar models -G25 and K13


gixajo
08-10-2020, 01:35 PM
Letīs to try to compare both ways. (try because references and software are not exactly the sames)

We can do this with other models we post, to compare results and see differences.

G25 SCALED


Germanic:Ger+Dutch,0.12850750,0.13434200,0.0595375 0,0.04242800,0.04023600,0.01613500,0.00530550,0.00 693350,0.00355100,0.00110350,-0.00542900,0.00348000,-0.00703950,-0.00569200,0.01297850,0.00431800,-0.00574350,0.00146500,0.00381850,0.00226650,0.0039 1550,0.00243600,0.00017000,0.01182950,-0.00010750
Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0 .057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.00429 5,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305, 0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736
North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria,0.117111,0.14747 7,0.007794,-0.027994,0.020038,-0.009172,-0.000862,-0.00241,0.005227,0.025918,-0.000379,0.005395,-0.010158,-0.005321,-0.002488,0.000575,0.006954,0.000591,0.001061,-0.002334,-0.003411,0.000756,0.000315,0.003039,-0.001091
South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo,0.112685,0.1488 01,-0.000675,-0.034765,0.016116,-0.01255,0.000779,-0.002283,0.003789,0.020813,0.000513,0.003668,-0.005633,-0.003904,-0.00615,-0.001466,0.00186,0.000267,0.003361,-0.003693,-0.003809,0.001334,0.000889,0.001706,-0.000964
Altaic:Altaian,0.057367,-0.28841,0.067052,-0.007881,-0.061304,-0.023873,0.011845,0.015738,0.001677,0.001968,-0.018642,-0.002518,0.000119,-0.011615,-0.00247,0.001989,-0.002764,-0.001318,0.011087,0.015257,-0.024157,0.001607,-0.014223,-0.00106,-0.002179

K13


North_PaleoBalk,26.31,11.19,23.14,10.18,24.32,3.81 ,0.08,0.35,0.07,0.27,0.14,0.14,0
Germanic,43.14,22.44,14.78,6.85,8.54,0.86,0.94,0.1 3,0.40,0.60,0.64,0.47,0.22
Slavic,30.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00, 1.56,0.89,0.00,0.42,0.00
Altaic,4.25,9.58,0.55,8.32,0.14,0.23,2.94,21.39,48 .62,3.21,0.51,0.01,0.25
South_PaleoBalk,20.82,8.67,21.33,13.7,29.21,4.61,0 .18,0.28,0.28,0.22,0.33,0.33,0.04

Election of G25 references is based in the k13 original model refrences:

References from Eurogenes K13 ancient, Vahaduo.


Distance to: Slavic
0.00000000 AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_


Distance to: North_PaleoBalk
2.66443240 scy300_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2253_ybp


Distance to: Germanic
2.57297493 I4946_Czech_Bell_Beaker_4172_ybp


Distance to: Altaic
8.16552509 DA116_Kyrgyzstan_Nomad_Med.SG_796_ybp


Distance to: South_PaleoBalk
2.99317557 R973_Lazio_Rome_Renaissance_Italy

References from Eurogenes K13 (Modern) updated ,Vahaduo:


Distance to: South_PaleoBalk
0.00000000 Abruzzo


Distance to: North_PaleoBalk
0.00000000 Romagna


Distance to: Altaic
0.00000000 Altaian


Distance to: Germanic
0.00000000 West_German


Distance to: Slavic
2.86347691 Polish
gixajo
08-10-2020, 01:40 PM
K13

Target: gixajo
Distance: 17.5863% / 17.58626325
65.6 Germanic
34.4 North_PaleoBalk

G25

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 4.3409% / 0.04340919
51.8 North_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Umbria
48.2 Germanic:Ger+Dutch
0.0 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad
0.0 South_Paleo_Balkan:Italian_Abruzzo
0.0 Altaic:Altaian
gixajo
08-10-2020, 01:43 PM
i have named wrongly North and South Balkan references , sorry. Itīs already corrected.
Kyp
08-10-2020, 01:49 PM
My Mother

G25:
Target: MotherKyp
Distance: 1.3504% / 0.01350436
74.4 Germanic
16.6 Slavic
9.0 North_Paleo_Balkan

k13:
Target: MotherKyp(SouthGerman)
Distance: 3.1678% / 3.16779749
82.4 Germanic
17.6 Slavic



Myself:

G25:
Target: Kyp_scaled
Distance: 2.6547% / 0.02654665
53.4 Azeri_Iran
28.8 Germanic
16.4 Slavic
1.4 South_Paleo_Balkan

k13:
Target: Kyp(Azeri+German)
Distance: 2.9194% / 2.91935299
43.4 Azeri
36.0 Germanic
13.4 Slavic
7.2 South_PaleoBalk



You guys think the Slavic is legit? (I guess to a certain extent it's normal in Germany but it's consistent in these calculators, also with Myheritage)
gixajo
08-10-2020, 02:18 PM
My Mother





You guys think the Slavic is legit? (I guess to a certain extent it's normal in Germany but it's consistent in these calculators, also with Myheritage)

This ancient reference for Slavic is used commonly as very good one. Maybe some member more specialized in Eastern Europe can say it better than me.

In individual averages they are Germans that score much more Slavic than your mother, so I donīt know if itīs an accurate reference for Slavic, but Germans score in Slavic quite ussually as far as I know, and those from East Germany more than West Germans.

If you use as a German reference the original German reference from datasheet , probably your mother will score less Slavic, and if you use the Eastern German reference, even less.

All depends in references used, itīs the eternal war here among those who post models and their detractors.

The only undubious reference here is Altaic one (modern) and German one(modern too), ancient Slavic too but from ancient populations datasheet, and both paleo Balkans references, are quite debatable IMO.
Kyp
08-10-2020, 02:33 PM
This ancient reference for Slavic is used commonly as very good one. Maybe some member more specialized in Eastern Europe can say it better than me.

In individual averages they are Germans that score much more Slavic than your mother, so I donīt know if itīs an accurate reference for Slavic, but Germans score in Slavic quite ussually as far as I know, and those from East Germany more than West Germans.

If you use as a German reference the original German reference from datasheet , probably your mother will score less Slavic, and if you use the Eastern German reference, even less.

All depends in references used, itīs the eternal war here among those who post models and their detractors.

The only undubious reference here is Altaic one (modern) and German one(modern too), ancient Slavic too but from ancient populations datasheet, and both paleo Balkans references, are quite debatable IMO.

I'm inclined to believe it's true as my mother scores 32.9% East European (East European + some Balkan) on MH. But I don't know how ancient it is. There also has been medieval Slavic settlement in the nearby regions to the east. So it could be possible but I don't see a way to confirm such a thing.
gixajo
08-10-2020, 02:56 PM
I'm inclined to believe it's true as my mother scores 32.9% East European (East European + some Balkan) on MH. But I don't know how ancient it is. There also has been medieval Slavic settlement in the nearby regions to the east. So it could be possible but I don't see a way to confirm such a thing.

You mother is undoubtely German, simply Germans are not isolated population, so itīs normal to score something related with neighbouring populations. Same for anybody in Europe, the "purest" individuals are hard to find in any ethnicity, and these "purest" individuals would constitute a minimum percentage of any ethnic group.

On the other hand, each ethnic estimate will give you a different percentage.My mother is Southern Basque, and in G25 she scores between 47% and 70% basque, depending on references. In MyHeritage is 100% Iberian, but the same raw data from MH exported to other companies, gave her quite less.
Kyp
08-10-2020, 03:06 PM
You mother is undoubtely German, simply Germans are not isolated population, so itīs normal to score something related with neighbouring populations. Same for anybody in Europe, the "purest" individuals are hard to find in any ethnicity, and these "purest" individuals would constitute a minimum percentage of any ethnic group.

On the other hand, each ethnic estimate will give you a different percentage.My mother is Southern Basque, and in G25 she scores between 47% and 70% basque, depending on references. In MyHeritage is 100% Iberian, but the same raw data from MH exported to other companies, gave her quite less.

Yes no doubt about her being 100% German (around 95% actually because of distant French ancestry) same as Eastern Germans being 100% German, but I'm still interested in the history/ethnogenesis of the people. You can look this up (if you're interested) for example we are from close to the West: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria_Slavica/wiki/Bavaria_Slavica[/URL]
So there is a small continuum from Eastern Germany to the most northern parts of modern Bavaria in terms of Slavic ancestry possible.
gixajo
08-11-2020, 01:42 PM
Sorry Universe, a link of your K13 post:

http://https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?329753-Comparing-similar-models-G25-and-K13&p=6838613#post6838613
Defcon2
08-11-2020, 01:49 PM
K13

Target: Juan
Distance: 18.2988% / 18.29884583
52.0 North_PaleoBalk
48.0 Germanic

G25

Target: Juan_scaled
Distance: 5.3699% / 0.05369942
63.6 North_Paleo_Balkan
35.8 Germanic
0.6 Altaic
mitalit
08-11-2020, 01:57 PM
k13:

Target: Xabier
Distance: 9.5128% / 9.51283399
62.2 Germanic
37.8 North_PaleoBalk

G25:
Target: Xabier_scaled
Distance: 3.5364% / 0.03536358
51.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
48.2 Germanic
0.8 Altaic
gixajo
08-11-2020, 02:07 PM
k13:

c

Wow, you are a complete artist, using these colours.:thumb001:


K13

aic

You are not any artist and you are a bad person...:mad:
calxpal
08-11-2020, 03:28 PM
G25:
Target: cpalscaled
Distance: 2.7421% / 0.02742138
65.2 Germanic
18.0 Slavic
16.0 North_Paleo_Balkan
0.8 Altaic

K13:
Target: cpal
Distance: 2.5056% / 2.50563065
70.4 Germanic
25.4 Slavic
3.2 South_PaleoBalk
1.0 Altaic
Luso
08-12-2020, 01:27 AM
G25:
Target: Luso_scaled
Distance: 5.2297% / 0.05229656
61.4 North_Paleo_Balkan
38.4 Germanic
0.2 Altaic


K13:

Target: Luso
Distance: 13.0518% / 13.05182691
55.6 Germanic
44.4 North_PaleoBalk
paradox
08-12-2020, 12:10 PM
G25

Target: scaled
Distance: 2.0764% / 0.02076427
75.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
23.8 Slavic
1.2 Altaic


K13

Target: K13
Distance: 8.5044% / 8.50439981
76.6 South_PaleoBalk
21.8 Slavic
1.6 Altaic

----------------------------------------------------
My father

G25

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 2.3290% / 0.02328988
57.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
42.6 Slavic
0.4 Altaic


K13

Target: Fatherk13
Distance: 1.7023% / 1.70230247
58.0 South_PaleoBalk
35.8 Slavic
6.0 Germanic
0.2 Altaic
gixajo
08-28-2020, 12:07 PM
G25

Target: scaled
Distance: 2.0764% / 0.02076427
75.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
23.8 Slavic
1.2 Altaic


K13

Target: K13
Distance: 8.5044% / 8.50439981
76.6 South_PaleoBalk
21.8 Slavic
1.6 Altaic

----------------------------------------------------
My father

G25

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 2.3290% / 0.02328988
57.0 South_Paleo_Balkan
42.6 Slavic
0.4 Altaic


K13

Target: Fatherk13
Distance: 1.7023% / 1.70230247
58.0 South_PaleoBalk
35.8 Slavic
6.0 Germanic
0.2 Altaic

It seems that for natives from that area, both work quite well, at least in your particular case.
oszkar07
08-29-2020, 03:15 AM
K13
Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.9753% / 2.97526323
59.8 Germanic
36.2 Slavic
3.2 South_PaleoBalk
0.6 North_PaleoBalk
0.2 Altaic

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 3.0851% / 3.08511178 | ADC: 0.25x
63.2 Germanic
34.8 Slavic
2.0 North_PaleoBalk


G25
Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.5868% / 0.02586816 | ADC: 0.25x
63.8 Germanic
28.6 Slavic
7.6 South_Paleo_Balkan


Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.5740% / 0.02573957
58.6 Germanic
31.6 Slavic
9.8 South_Paleo_Balkan
Coastal Elite
08-29-2020, 03:28 AM
K13

Target: DacoCeltic
Distance: 2.5643% / 2.56425774
83.4 Germanic
12.8 South_PaleoBalk
3.8 Slavic


G25

Target: DacoCeltic_scaled
Distance: 1.7914% / 0.01791392
62.2 Germanic
30.8 North_Paleo_Balkan
6.2 Slavic
0.8 Altaic
JamesBond007
08-29-2020, 03:47 AM
Letīs to try to compare both ways. (try because references and software are not exactly the sames)

We can do this with other models we post, to compare results and see differences.




I'm skeptical about K13 being able to measure 'Germanicness' since it does not have a NorthSea category like K15.

K13

Target: kevin
Distance: 10.8782% / 10.87818919
100.0 Germanic


G25

Target: Kevin_scaled
Distance: 3.1251% / 0.03125080
98.6 Germanic
1.4 Altaic