Chris596 Family G25 Similarity Maps

[Chris596]

Interesting! All credit goes to Ph2ter who made them, based on my G25 coordinates. He even managed to simulate my mother!

This is not necessarily an ancestry map, it only shows our genetic affinity to other ethnicities.

My Father
https://i.imgur.com/iOfI1hZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rQKHsHz.jpg


My Mother
https://i.imgur.com/DPbq3GB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VrZdLwJ.jpg


Myself (Chris596)
https://i.imgur.com/aew7Arl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/h9rD0j8.jpg

[Jana]

Your father is Szekely?

[Chris596]

Your father is Szekely?

Yes and the Armenian comes from his side as well.

Why? Interesting the hottest spot is at the Gagauz population.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Yes and the Armenian comes from his side as well.

Why? Interesting the hottest spot is at the Gagauz population.

If your paternal great-grandfather is Armenian how would your paternal haplogroup be E-V13?

[Jana]

Yes and the Armenian comes from his side as well.

Why? Interesting the hottest spot is at the Gagauz population.

He seems to be very east Balkan/Bulgarian like genetically, while your mother seem regular Hungarian more or less-
Could explain why you ended up being very Serb like genetically, Serbs are basically a midpoint between Hungary and Bulgaria

[Chris596]

If your paternal great-grandfather is Armenian how would your paternal haplogroup be E-V13?

I'm sure he was already mixed. It was hundreds of years ago when most of the Armenians settled there. Otherwise I would be 25% Armenian if he was pure but that's impossible of course.

[Jana]

If your paternal great-grandfather is Armenian how would your paternal haplogroup be E-V13?

E1b is present in Armenians.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0a4b62e990075e9a4da539601e943a21

[Chris596]

He seems to be very east Balkan/Bulgarian like genetically, while your mother seem regular Hungarian more or less-
Could explain why you ended up being very Serb like genetically, Serbs are basically a midpoint between Hungary and Bulgaria

Yes that's really interesting, I'm very Southeast European genetically. Most Szekelys have significant Paleo Balkan blood but yeah my father completely lacks the Germanic and seems like he has just a little East Slavic as well. Well he must be something because otherwise I wouldn't be European xD

[Rocinante]

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-e1b-v13.png

Seems very difficult that your paternal line could be traced in Armenia. E1b1 seems to be present in there, but not V13.

[Chris596]

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/haplogroup-e1b-v13.png

Seems very difficult that your paternal line could be traced in Armenia. E1b1 seems to be present in there, but not V13.

Well yeah, I'm not sure what to say. My father and his family went to an Armenian church, they also knew the priest there who is also our distant relative (this is what they told me). I can't see why they would do this and lie to me. But it's interesting that they didn't really talk about it until now, my father told me some things in the past but that was a long time ago.

I can also show you some of the evidence from Admixture Studio how can I have these results? Here:

Tolan K25 R1
Distance: 6.36

44.00% Serb_Serbia
17.00% Croatian
10.80% Montenegran
10.40% Pole_Pole
10.20% Hungarians
06.20% Chechens
01.00% Mordovians
00.20% Serb
00.20% Ukranians

Eurogenes K10
Distance: 2.56

69.20% Moldova_Centre
15.00% Serbian
06.20% Cornwall
04.60% Moldova
04.40% North_Ossetian
00.40% Moldova_North
00.20% Croat


Tolan Recent Ancestors (More Precise)

https://i.imgur.com/gQTW4IS.png


Distance: 11.46

36.20% Serb
23.20% Croat
15.00% Moldavian
12.60% Montenegran
09.40% Bulgarians
03.00% Chechens
00.40% Hungarians
00.20% Lezgins

Geneplaza K29 Ancestry Report
https://i.imgur.com/tSzLp1J.png

ADNTRO Ancestry Report
https://i.imgur.com/Qfjvpss.png

DNA.LAND:
https://i.imgur.com/cWwYK1s.png

LivingDNA:
https://i.imgur.com/uyW3z1c.png

Even the Ethnicity estimator told me I'm Armenian lol (this is only to make it funnier):
https://i.imgur.com/lghwZ6I.jpg


This is all the evidence I have so far regarding my Caucasian ancestry. What do you think? I don't think this is a coincidence.

[Chris596]

I still can't understand how Myheritage didn't show anything, of course they showed the Balkan and the Jewish but that's it. Anyway I consider that report irrelevant by now.

No wonder my father is so similar to Gagauzes:

Distance to: ChrisFather
0.04441928 Gagauz
0.04554138 Bulgarian
0.04726235 Macedonian
0.04839871 Romanian
0.05057440 Montenegrin
0.05165622 Moldovan
0.05275601 Serbian
0.05291516 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.05437285 Turkish_Deliorman
0.05555772 Albanian

This is the Gagauz average on G25:

Target: Gagauz
Distance: 0.4123% / 0.00412337
39.0 Macedonian
11.6 Greek_Trabzon
10.0 Belarusian
9.8 Armenian
9.8 Italian_Liguria
7.6 Sardinian
4.2 Lithuanian_PZ
2.0 Cossack_Ukrainian
2.0 Tatar_Lipka
1.8 Lithuanian_VZ
1.0 Turkish_North
0.4 Ket
0.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.2 Lithuanian_RA
0.2 Samaritan

Compare this to my father:


Target: ChrisFather
Distance: 3.8161% / 0.03816107 | ADC: 0.25x
48.4 Macedonian
22.8 Gagauz
9.2 Abazin
8.2 Sardinian
4.6 Bosnian
3.4 Lithuanian_VA
2.0 Li
1.4 Cossack_Ukrainian

[Rgvgjhvv]

I still can't understand how Myheritage didn't show anything, of course they showed the Balkan and the Jewish but that's it. Anyway I consider that report irrelevant by now.

It is basically useless in regards to distant ancestry from what I've seen.

[Rocinante]

Well yeah, I'm not sure what to say. My father and his family went to an Armenian church, they also knew the priest there who is also our distant relative (this is what they told me). I can't see why they would do this and lie to me. But it's interesting that they didn't really talk about it until now, my father told me some things in the past but that was a long time ago.

I can also show you some of the evidence from Admixture Studio how can I have these results? Here:

Tolan K25 R1
Distance: 6.36

44.00% Serb_Serbia
17.00% Croatian
10.80% Montenegran
10.40% Pole_Pole
10.20% Hungarians
06.20% Chechens
01.00% Mordovians
00.20% Serb
00.20% Ukranians

Eurogenes K10
Distance: 2.56

69.20% Moldova_Centre
15.00% Serbian
06.20% Cornwall
04.60% Moldova
04.40% North_Ossetian
00.40% Moldova_North
00.20% Croat


Tolan Recent Ancestors (More Precise)

https://i.imgur.com/gQTW4IS.png


Distance: 11.46

36.20% Serb
23.20% Croat
15.00% Moldavian
12.60% Montenegran
09.40% Bulgarians
03.00% Chechens
00.40% Hungarians
00.20% Lezgins

Geneplaza K29 Ancestry Report
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/tSzLp1

ADNTRO Ancestry Report
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Qfjvp

DNA.LAND:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cWwY

LivingDNA:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.co

Even the Ethnicity estimator told me I'm Armenian lol (this is only to make it funnier):
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lghwZ6I.


This is all the evidence I have so far regarding my Caucasian ancestry. What do you think? I don't think this is a coincidence.

There is no doubt that you have ancestry from the Caucasus. Makes a lot of sense, and your results are interesting, which of course confirm it. Now, what would be super curious, is that being predominantly from Eastern Europe, your E-V13 comes from Armenia. It would be crazy. I checked the most common haplogroups and clades in Armenia hours ago and V13 seems pretty unlike there.

[Chris596]

There is no doubt that you have ancestry from the Caucasus. Makes a lot of sense, and your results are interesting, which of course confirm it. Now, what would be super curious, is that being predominantly from Eastern Europe, your E-V13 comes from Armenia. It would be crazy. I checked the most common haplogroups and clades in Armenia hours ago and V13 seems pretty unlike there.

That's something I've yet to find out. What if at some point my Armenian line has ,,split apart'' and it actually comes from a maternal line?

To see what I mean: my great great great whatever (who was a woman) had Armenian ancestry and she got married to a local man (Hungarian/Eastern European) and that's where the E-V13 comes from with the Armenian ancestry?

This is just a very speculative theory, but I hope you understand what I’m thinking about xD

[Jana]

There is no doubt that you have ancestry from the Caucasus. Makes a lot of sense, and your results are interesting, which of course confirm it. Now, what would be super curious, is that being predominantly from Eastern Europe, your E-V13 comes from Armenia. It would be crazy. I checked the most common haplogroups and clades in Armenia hours ago and V13 seems pretty unlike there.

You are wrong. E-V13 is clade that is present among ethnic Armenians.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ArmeniaDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

[Chris596]

You are wrong. E-V13 is clade that is present among ethnic Armenians.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ArmeniaDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

Wow. I just realized something...

Not so long ago I saw a very similar table about Szekler Hungarians. In that table the E-V13 belongs to a specific Szekler surname which is also my surname and that Armenian priest (who was our distant relative though) had the same surname. I mean my surname is not even Armenian but specifically Szekler but the haplogroup is the same (E-V13).

By now you can figure out what my surname is if you check that table.

The real question which still remains: does my haplogroup really come from my Armenian side or from the Eastern European? (the Eastern European still has much more chance I think).

[Halgurd]

You are wrong. E-V13 is clade that is present among ethnic Armenians.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ArmeniaDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

Yes, it is present (5%) in Armenians, Kurds, Azeris, Iranians. Probably an IE link. Eupedia speculates that it is Sintashta related.

[Luke35]

Just remember that I come from a line of Hungarians with N haplogroup, it's like 1% in Hungary. Anything is possible.

That said, I subscribe to your female Armenian ancestor theory, Chris, as most likely.

[Halgurd]

Wow. I just realized something...

Not so long ago I saw a very similar table about Szekler Hungarians. In that table the E-V13 belongs to a specific Szekler surname which is also my surname and that Armenian priest (who was our distant relative though) had the same surname. I mean my surname is not even Armenian but specifically Szekler but the haplogroup is the same (E-V13).

By now you can figure out what my surname is if you check that table.

The real question which still remains: does my haplogroup really come from my Armenian side or from the Eastern European? (the Eastern European still has much more chance I think).

The only way to find out is do YSEQ or ftdna big Y to find your downstream clade. But, considering that E-V13 is much more populous in Europe, it is more likely that it comes from Europe.

[Chris596]

Just remember that I come from a line of Hungarians with N haplogroup, it's like 1% in Hungary. Anything is possible.

That said, I subscribe to your female Armenian ancestor theory, Chris, as most likely.

Yes, that seems like the only logical theory. Everything is possible I think.


The only way to find out is do YSEQ or ftdna big Y to find your downstream clade. But, considering that E-V13 is much more populous in Europe, it is more likely that it comes from Europe.

I feel like I should totally do that. My dad and his family lived in Gyergyószentmiklós (and they went to the Armenian church there), most of his ancestors came from the Gheorgheni Basin in Szekely Land (many of the Armenians settled there according to Wikipedia and many sources in Hungarian) and also from the Csíki Basin.

According to a 23 years old Hungarian source:
The middle of the 19th century was definitely a turning point
for Armenians, since in 1848 it was organized on ethnic grounds and with privileges of order
their besieged communities have lost their legal personality and are part of modern society
integration also facilitated assimilation.

https://eda.eme.ro/bitstream/handle/10598/25366/EM_1997_1-2__004_Pal_Judit-Az_erdelyi_ormeny_nepesseg_szamanak.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

[Rocinante]

That's something I've yet to find out. What if at some point my Armenian line has ,,split apart'' and it actually comes from a maternal line?

To see what I mean: my great great great whatever (who was a woman) had Armenian ancestry and she got married to a local man (Hungarian/Eastern European) and that's where the E-V13 comes from with the Armenian ancestry?

This is just a very speculative theory, but I hope you understand what I’m thinking about xD

That would be a more reasonable theory, i mean... Imagine that my paternal line is from Belarus, but i know that there is some minor scottish ancestry in that line, and when i recieve my DNA test i score R-L21, a clade that is among more than the half of scottish and that nearly doesn't exist in belarusians, my conclusion would be extremely obvius: My paternal line could be traced in Scotland. I think this is your case, like i said, from what i readed (that wasn't that much i have to say), E-V13 is among less that 4% of the males in Armenia, the luck you need to get that haplogroup from an armenian paternal line is tremendous.


You are wrong. E-V13 is clade that is present among ethnic Armenians.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ArmeniaDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

What i readed is that the most common E1b1 in Armenia was E-M123, which would make a lot of sense because is the most common clade in the Middle East toward West Asia. I dislike a lot FTDNA projects, but they are helpful, i have to admit.

My source: https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2011192