Csangos from northen Siret GEDMATCH

[andre]

By origins their village was a normal moldavian orthodox place, but after 1770 (After Siculicidium) a lot of magyars came from Transylvania. They have a strongly german background too; on 23andme they score 8-15% French and German with Bavaria as a recent acestrors location.

They are 3 brothers.

Y-dna: J-L25
Mtdna: H13a

CSANGO_ROMAN_1

1 North_Atlantic 30.53
2 Baltic 30.04
3 West_Med 16
4 East_Med 7.63
5 West_Asian 7.12
6 East_Asian 4.67
7 Amerindian 2.4
8 Red_Sea 1.12
9 Siberian 0.4
10 South_Asian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 6.63
2 Austrian 8.07
3 Croatian 8.14
4 East_German 8.45
5 Moldavian 8.63
6 Serbian 9.6
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.64
8 South_Polish 12.71
9 Romanian 13.09
10 Ukrainian 13.66
11 West_German 13.93
12 South_Dutch 15.02
13 Bulgarian 15.59
14 Polish 15.86
15 North_German 16.66
16 French 16.78
17 North_Swedish 17.58
18 Southwest_Russian 18.06
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.22
20 Swedish 18.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 95.1% Hungarian + 4.9% Dai @ 4.45
2 95% Hungarian + 5% Vietnamese @ 4.5
3 94.8% Hungarian + 5.2% Lahu @ 4.54
4 95.1% Hungarian + 4.9% She @ 4.58
5 94.7% Hungarian + 5.3% Cambodian @ 4.59
6 95% Hungarian + 5% Miaozu @ 4.6
7 95% Hungarian + 5% Tujia @ 4.64
8 94.6% Hungarian + 5.4% Malay @ 4.65
9 94.8% Hungarian + 5.2% Yizu @ 4.86
10 94.2% Hungarian + 5.8% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 4.91
11 94.8% Hungarian + 5.2% Naxi @ 4.91
12 94.7% Hungarian + 5.3% Tu @ 5.05
13 95% Hungarian + 5% Japanese @ 5.06
14 57.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 42.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.23
15 58.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 5.31
16 67% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% Spanish_Murcia @ 5.35
17 56.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 43.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 5.38
18 75.2% Moldavian + 24.8% Southwest_English @ 5.4
19 58.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 5.4
20 95.2% Hungarian + 4.8% Xibo @ 5.41

CSANGO_ROMAN_2

1 North_Atlantic 30.43
2 Baltic 28.99
3 West_Med 16.32
4 East_Med 9.31
5 West_Asian 8.42
6 Siberian 3.06
7 East_Asian 3.02
8 Red_Sea 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 5.98
2 Serbian 7.51
3 Austrian 7.69
4 Moldavian 7.83
5 Croatian 8.29
6 East_German 8.75
7 Romanian 11.04
8 West_German 13.33
9 South_Polish 13.33
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.42
11 Bulgarian 13.73
12 South_Dutch 14.47
13 Ukrainian 14.49
14 French 15.99
15 North_German 16.82
16 Polish 17.05
17 North_Swedish 18.22
18 Southwest_Russian 18.67
19 Swedish 18.95
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.4% Moldavian + 32.6% South_Dutch @ 4
2 69.9% Moldavian + 30.1% French @ 4.14
3 65.7% Moldavian + 34.3% West_German @ 4.2
4 83.9% Moldavian + 16.1% French_Basque @ 4.32
5 94.9% Hungarian + 5.1% Xibo @ 4.33
6 56.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 43.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.34
7 95% Hungarian + 5% Hezhen @ 4.36
8 50.2% Erzya + 49.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.37
9 95% Hungarian + 5% Tu @ 4.38
10 95.3% Hungarian + 4.7% Japanese @ 4.4
11 76.2% Moldavian + 23.8% Southwest_English @ 4.43
12 95.4% Hungarian + 4.6% Naxi @ 4.47
13 95.5% Hungarian + 4.5% Yizu @ 4.5
14 53.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 46.5% Erzya @ 4.52
15 51.8% North_Italian + 48.2% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.52
16 74.8% Moldavian + 25.2% Southeast_English @ 4.53
17 94.3% Hungarian + 5.7% Mongolian @ 4.53
18 91.8% Hungarian + 8.2% Sardinian @ 4.57
19 95.9% Hungarian + 4.1% Tujia @ 4.58
20 51.2% Spanish_Murcia + 48.8% Erzya @ 4.59

CSANGO_ROMAN_3

1 Baltic 30.12
2 North_Atlantic 28.07
3 West_Med 16.06
4 East_Med 9.12
5 West_Asian 7.7
6 East_Asian 2.93
7 South_Asian 2.48
8 Siberian 1.7
9 Amerindian 0.99
10 Red_Sea 0.84

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.81
2 Hungarian 6.12
3 Croatian 6.51
4 Serbian 7.36
5 Austrian 8.95
6 East_German 9.46
7 Romanian 10.79
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.95
9 South_Polish 12.4
10 Ukrainian 13.11
11 Bulgarian 13.29
12 West_German 15.23
13 Polish 15.91
14 South_Dutch 16.42
15 Southwest_Russian 17.29
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.55
17 French 17.77
18 North_German 18.37
19 Russian_Smolensk 18.48
20 Estonian_Polish 19.01

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.4% Moldavian + 11.6% French_Basque @ 3.39
2 78.9% Moldavian + 21.1% French @ 3.46
3 77.7% Moldavian + 22.3% South_Dutch @ 3.54
4 83.9% Moldavian + 16.1% Southwest_French @ 3.58
5 83.1% Moldavian + 16.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.65
6 85.9% Moldavian + 14.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.66
7 84.3% Moldavian + 15.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.67
8 76.7% Moldavian + 23.3% West_German @ 3.69
9 83.9% Moldavian + 16.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.74
10 82.9% Moldavian + 17.1% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.76
11 83.7% Moldavian + 16.3% Southwest_English @ 3.77
12 85% Moldavian + 15% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.77
13 84.5% Moldavian + 15.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.78
14 82.7% Moldavian + 17.3% Southeast_English @ 3.81
15 84.6% Moldavian + 15.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.82
16 51% Kargopol_Russian + 49% North_Italian @ 3.84
17 64.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 35.3% North_Italian @ 3.86
18 83.6% Moldavian + 16.4% Orcadian @ 3.92
19 83.5% Moldavian + 16.5% Portuguese @ 3.92
20 85.6% Moldavian + 14.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.96


Csango_Roman1,30.53,30.04,16.00,7.12,7.63,1.12,0.0 8,4.67,0.40,2.40,0,0,0
Csango_Roman2,30.43,28.99,16.32,8.42,9.31,0.45,0,3 .02,3.06,0,0,0,0
Csango_Roman3,28.07,30.12,16.06,7.70,9.12,0.84,2.4 8,2.93,1.70,0.99,0,0,0

[andre]

Their parents and grandparents are distant (not so distant :) ) relatives, because they intermarried only between catholics.

[Scandal]

That's the highest amount of mongoloid I've seen from hungarian people.

CSANGO_ROMAN_1

1 North_Atlantic 30.53
2 Baltic 30.04
3 West_Med 16
4 East_Med 7.63
5 West_Asian 7.12
6 East_Asian 4.67
7 Amerindian 2.4
8 Red_Sea 1.12
9 Siberian 0.4
10 South_Asian 0.08


CSANGO_ROMAN_2

1 North_Atlantic 30.43
2 Baltic 28.99
3 West_Med 16.32
4 East_Med 9.31
5 West_Asian 8.42
6 Siberian 3.06
7 East_Asian 3.02
8 Red_Sea 0.45
Their baltic to north_atlatic ratio is avarage hungarian (from Hungary)

[Jana]

So they are descendants of Szekelys who fled into Moldova?

[andre]

Their location it's near (3-4 km) a medieval hungarian settlement. Csangos live there since 1200.

[andre]

So they are descendants of Szekelys who fled into Moldova?

By majority yes.. but i strongly think that it was a medieval substrate too.

[Chris596]

Lol I'm really just a Balkanigg@ compared to them xD

[Jana]

By majority yes.. but i strongly think that it was a medieval substrate too.

Very interesting results, thanks for sharing. :)

[Aspirin]

They are 3 brothers.

Y-dna: J-L25
Mtdna: H13a

CSANGO_ROMAN_1

6 East_Asian 4.67

CSANGO_ROMAN_2

6 Siberian 3.06
7 East_Asian 3.02

CSANGO_ROMAN_3
6 East_Asian 2.93
8 Siberian 1.7


How is this possible?

[Bender1999]

They are really east asian influenced.

[Leto]

How is this possible?
Just when you thought we were the only ching-chongs of Europe :swl

[Leto]

@andre, can you also post their Dodecad K12b components?

[andre]

@andre, can you also post their Dodecad K12b components?

Gedrosia 3.85 Pct
Siberian 1.17 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 2.33 Pct
Atlantic_Med 28.58 Pct
North_European 43.57 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.09 Pct
East_Asian 2.60 Pct
Caucasus 15.81 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Gedrosia 2.82 Pct
Siberian 1.70 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 28.49 Pct
North_European 42.00 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.66 Pct
East_Asian 3.54 Pct
Caucasus 18.78 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Gedrosia 4.15 Pct
Siberian 1.51 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 1.08 Pct
Atlantic_Med 27.35 Pct
North_European 42.07 Pct
South_Asian 0.87 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.32 Pct
East_Asian 2.18 Pct
Caucasus 17.48 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Dunai]

Awesome to see brand new Csángó results, it's such a rare thing, but their Atlantic and Baltic is higher in average even than that of Transylvanian Hungarians (even if truth be told, there is still not enough samples from them). However their Mongolid is truly massive, definitely these people are closer to Medieval Hungarians than the rest of us.

[Aspirin]

How they look?

[Ion Basescul]

By origins their village was a normal moldavian orthodox place, but after 1770 (After Siculicidium) a lot of magyars came from Transylvania. They have a strongly german background too; on 23andme they score 8-15% French and German with Bavaria as a recent acestrors location.

They are 3 brothers.

Y-dna: J-L25
Mtdna: H13a

CSANGO_ROMAN_1

6 East_Asian 4.67
7 Amerindian 2.4
9 Siberian 0.4

CSANGO_ROMAN_2

6 Siberian 3.06
7 East_Asian 3.02

CSANGO_ROMAN_3

6 East_Asian 2.93
8 Siberian 1.7
9 Amerindian 0.99



Csango_Roman1,30.53,30.04,16.00,7.12,7.63,1.12,0.0 8,4.67,0.40,2.40,0,0,0
Csango_Roman2,30.43,28.99,16.32,8.42,9.31,0.45,0,3 .02,3.06,0,0,0,0
Csango_Roman3,28.07,30.12,16.06,7.70,9.12,0.84,2.4 8,2.93,1.70,0.99,0,0,0


7.47%, 6.08% and 5.62% Siberian/East Asian.

So, are Csangos the closest to original Hungarians then? I think that not even Szekelys manage to reach into 7%.

[Dunai]

7.47%, 6.08% and 5.62% Siberian/East Asian.

So, are Csangos the closest to original Hungarians then? I think that not even Szekelys manage to reach into 7%.

Székelys have around 4% Mongolid genes in average, while Csángós, around 3.5% (from the limited samples we have), thus these 3 individuals really stand out greatly. The new Csángó average will definitely modify quite some.

[Ion Basescul]

Székelys have around 4% Mongolid genes in average, while Csángós, around 3.5% (from the limited samples we have), thus these 3 individuals really stand out greatly. The new Csángó average will definitely modify quite some.

My records now show:

Csango, n=11, 4.3%
Szekelys, n=10, 3.3%
Hungarians, n=5, 2.3%

[andre]

Wait, we can’t make any conclusion. Csangos are not a unitary ethnic group.. they are all hungarian-speakers and catholic but they have different origins. For example Siret csangos have medieval origins and recent (szekely arrived after siculicidium) and giymesi csango are just szekely who cross the carpathic mountains.

11 samples are not enough, since we have only 1 from Bacau’s Siret.

[Leto]

The Amerindian is not fully Mongoloid. See the Dodecad results for reference.

Siberian 1.17 Pct
Southeast_Asian 2.33 Pct
East_Asian 2.60 Pct

Siberian 1.70 Pct
East_Asian 3.54 Pct

Siberian 1.51 Pct
Southeast_Asian 1.08 Pct
East_Asian 2.18 Pct

Looks like it's more East Asian than Siberian.

[Aspirin]

7.47%, 6.08% and 5.62% Siberian/East Asian.

So, are Csangos the closest to original Hungarians then? I think that not even Szekelys manage to reach into 7%.

These ones are not local Medieval Hungarians in origins, but migrants from Transylvania from 18th century, which make their results more interesting. A big part of today Cangos are in fact of Szekely origins. Many came after this event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siculicidium

[Ion Basescul]

These ones are not local Medieval Hungarians in origins, but migrants from Transylvania from 18th century, which make their results more interesting. A big part of today Cangos are in fact of Szekely origins. Many came after this event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siculicidium

Well, it doesn't matter that much to me if they are Szekely, Csango or Hungarian. It's more interesting that they managed to preserve so much of Hungarian Conqueror footprint, despite being surrounded by folk without that admixture. It shows that they lived in tight communities and didn't marry outside of them.

[Kaspias]

Can you convince them to buy G25? We can subtract that East Asian admixture from them easily, as they have a huge input.

I believe its origin is Cumans btw.

[Ion Basescul]

Can you convince them to buy G25? We can subtract that East Asian admixture from them easily, as they have a huge input.

I believe its origin is Cumans btw.

Tatars are possibly even more probable, because the whole region prior to the founding of Moldavia was raided by them. Szekelys were placed on the frontier of Transylvania, to guard against them.

[Chris596]

Székelys have around 4% Mongolid genes in average, while Csángós, around 3.5% (from the limited samples we have), thus these 3 individuals really stand out greatly. The new Csángó average will definitely modify quite some.

Yes that's a solid amount from these Csangos. On Dodecad K12b I get 2.11% East Asian and that's it. Most of my results suggest that my father is around 4% Mongoloid in total (he's Szekely Hungarian).

It's also interesting that they have a significant Western European heritage on top of that. My European background is mainly of Slavic/Balkan origin and now I know I have recent ancestry from the Caucasus too.

[Kaspias]

Tatars are possibly even more probable, because the whole region prior to the founding of Moldavia was raided by them. Szekelys were placed on the frontier of Transylvania, to guard against them.

In the sources I read it was stating that Szekely's were Cuman's themselves who joined Hungaria and placed on the frontier to protect the nation from Tatar raids. I do believe Cumans are primary origin here, but there is a chance that some Tatars joined them thanks to common language, then absorbed among Hungarian ethnicity.

In any way, I believe that East Eurasian part will be close to the Steppe Tatars.

[Jana]

In the sources I read it was stating that Szekely's were Cuman's themselves who joined Hungaria and placed on the frontier to protect the nation from Tatar raids. I do believe Cumans are primary origin here, but there is a chance that some Tatars joined them thanks to common language, then absorbed among Hungarian ethnicity.

In any way, I believe that East Eurasian part will be close to the Steppe Tatars.

Szekelys are not Cumans. They are Hungarians from Hungary placed to guard Hungary's eastern borders and later became Hungarian-subgroup.
Szekely was a social class of border guard in the beginning, and later became sub-ethnic group.

[Jana]

Tatars are possibly even more probable, because the whole region prior to the founding of Moldavia was raided by them. Szekelys were placed on the frontier of Transylvania, to guard against them.

Stears thinks increased mongoloid in Hungarians of Romania comes from recent Tatar rather than medieval conqueror input. Szekelys clashed with Tatars many times and he believes this admixture is result of rape.

[Jana]

Honestly their increased mongoloid could be also from admixture with Vlachs/Romanians/Moldovans. Romanians, especially eastern get more mongoloid than Hungarians do, so it could be partly from that too.

[Dunai]

In the sources I read it was stating that Szekely's were Cuman's themselves who joined Hungaria and placed on the frontier to protect the nation from Tatar raids. I do believe Cumans are primary origin here, but there is a chance that some Tatars joined them thanks to common language, then absorbed among Hungarian ethnicity.

In any way, I believe that East Eurasian part will be close to the Steppe Tatars.

Mind you that today's both Moldovas constituted Etelköz, which continued to be inhabited by Magyar Conquerors decades after they moved into the Carpathian Basin. Also after the Mongol invasions of the 13th century many Hungarians settled in Moldova. Back then Hungarians were still much more closer to Magyar Conquerors than today's population. I am also merely speculating, but can't be ruled out that Csángós did inherit plenty of Magyar Conqueror genes, especially that they still speak a form of Hungarian from 500 years ago. I haven't read yet a study that the Csángó dialect contains Cuman vocabulary (we actually know a lot about this language from the Codex Cumanicus), and I read quite many papers on this subject.

[Chris596]

Honestly their increased mongoloid could be also from admixture with Vlachs/Romanians/Moldovans. Romanians, especially eastern get more mongoloid than Hungarians do, so it could be partly from that too.

I believe Csangos have strong Vlach genetic influence (and not just genetic).

[vbnetkhio]

Can you convince them to buy G25? We can subtract that East Asian admixture from them easily, as they have a huge input.

I believe its origin is Cumans btw.

a lot could be inferred from k13 too.

i notice their asian part is east asian shifted, not siberian.
i think from the Asian steppe ancient samples we have, only the XiongNu are like this? so it could be Hunnic?

[Jana]

Mind you that today's both Moldovas constituted Etelköz, which continued to be inhabited by Magyar Conquerors decades after they moved into the Carpathian Basin. Also after the Mongol invasions of the 13th century many Hungarians settled in Moldova. Back then Hungarians were still much more closer to Magyar Conquerors than today's population. I am also merely speculating, but can't be ruled out that Csángós did inherit plenty of Magyar Conqueror genes, especially that they still speak a form of Hungarian from 500 years ago. I haven't read yet a study that the Csángó dialect contains Cuman vocabulary (we actually know a lot about this language from the Codex Cumanicus), and I read quite many papers on this subject.

Hungarians from OP aren't exactly Csangos, rather Szekely migrants who settled with Csangos and probably mixed with them.

[Ion Basescul]

Honestly their increased mongoloid could be also from admixture with Vlachs/Romanians/Moldovans. Romanians, especially eastern get more mongoloid than Hungarians do, so it could be partly from that too.

Not in the amount of these 3 folk who reach into 7% though.
I get 4.6% on K13, 3.5% on K12b and am like in the 99th percentile for Romanians/Moldovans.

[Jana]

a lot could be inferred from k13 too.

i notice their asian part is east asian shifted, not siberian.
i think from the Asian steppe ancient samples we have, only the XiongNu are like this? so it could be Hunnic?

Avars were very east Asian sifted people too.

[Jana]

Not in the amount of these 3 folk who reach into 7% though.
I get 4.6% on K13, 3.4% on K12b and am like in the 99th percentile for Romanians/Moldovans.

Yeah, that's true. It's likely Hungarian conquerors left some inprint on Moldova too. It's really hard to distinguish mongoloid admixture in these people, because Romania/Moldova experienced vawes of various eurasian nomad migrations trough many centuries.

[Jana]

I believe Csangos have strong Vlach genetic influence (and not just genetic).

Szekelys have too (genetics). From what I know, Csango folk culture is strongly Moldovan influenced.

[vbnetkhio]

Avars were very east Asian sifted people too.

do we have any samples? SZ1 from Szolad is an Asian/Roman mix, he is identified as Avar, but he could also be Hunnic+Roman who assimialted into Avars

[Chris596]

Stears thinks increased mongoloid in Hungarians of Romania comes from recent Tatar rather than medieval conqueror input. Szekelys clashed with Tatars many times and he believes this admixture is result of rape.

Once again I don't know why he thinks that, mass rape is very unlikely to have happened. Remember that thousands of Armenian families have settled in Szekely Land too and many people today having some Caucasian ancestry isn't the result of mass rape either.

Of course I'm sure there were many cases like this, but this is not the explanation to thousands of Szekelys today who have 4-5-6% Mongoloid ancestry.

[Kaspias]

a lot could be inferred from k13 too.

i notice their asian part is east asian shifted, not siberian.
i think from the Asian steppe ancient samples we have, only the XiongNu are like this? so it could be Hunnic?

I believe it is random inheritance. Most of Anatolian Turks also have East Asian shifted results, while Balkan Turks are heavily Siberian shifted.

But we can do the same process as we do in G25, and run output in Vahaduo K13.

[Jana]

do we have any samples? SZ1 from Szolad is an Asian/Roman mix, he is identified as Avar, but he could also be Hunnic+Roman who assimialted into Avars

They were identical to Buryats autosomaly, and from what I know Buryats are east Siberians with ton of east asian admixture (they are very mongoloid)
Avars were significantly more mongolid than Magyar Conquerors who were Bashkir like people, so pred. Caucasoid.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?284793-Y-chromosome-haplogroups-from-Hun-Avar-amp-conquering-Hungarian-period-people-of-the-Carpathian-Basin

BTW in these paper is autosomal profile of these groups discussed, just it wan't released for public.

[vbnetkhio]

They were identical to Buryats autosomaly, and from what I know Buryats are east Siberians with ton of east asian admixture (they are very mongoloid)
Avars were significantly more mongolid than Magyar Conquerors who were Bashkir like people, so pred. Caucasoid.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?284793-Y-chromosome-haplogroups-from-Hun-Avar-amp-conquering-Hungarian-period-people-of-the-Carpathian-Basin

BTW in these paper is autosomal profile of these groups discussed, just it wan't released for public.

i think sz1 works well as Buryat+Caucasus+various med influences

[Jana]

Once again I don't know why he thinks that, mass rape is very unlikely to have happened. Remember that thousands of Armenian families have settled in Szekely Land too and many people today having some Caucasian ancestry isn't the result of mass rape either.

Of course I'm sure there were many cases like this, but this is not the explanation to thousands of Szekelys today who have 4-5-6% Mongoloid ancestry.

Armenians settled peacefully in Szekely Land though, while Tatars were mortal enemies of Szekelys.
Anyway, it's not my opinion but his. And it suprised me he said that because I never expected him to even consider such idea.

Thing is Stears thinks Szekelys were ordinary Hungarians who had same mong admixture like other Hungarians. But, he didn't take in account mong admixture of Hungary's Hungarians could have been diluted with later assimilation of Slavs and Germans while Szekelys could have preserved more of their original DNA.

So, their mong could be from different sources (including conquerors, hunns). Maybe some haplogroup research can shed light on where from exactly it is.

[Jana]

In the sources I read it was stating that Szekely's were Cuman's themselves who joined Hungaria and placed on the frontier to protect the nation from Tatar raids. I do believe Cumans are primary origin here, but there is a chance that some Tatars joined them thanks to common language, then absorbed among Hungarian ethnicity.

In any way, I believe that East Eurasian part will be close to the Steppe Tatars.

Sorry but I forgot to mention that, Szekely folk tradition says they are of Hun origins. Prince Csaba is protector of Szekelys, and according to legend he was youngest son of Attila the Hun.
But I always taught it was just romantic tradition among them. Maybe it's more than that, who knows.

[Aspirin]

Honestly their increased mongoloid could be also from admixture with Vlachs/Romanians/Moldovans. Romanians, especially eastern get more mongoloid than Hungarians do, so it could be partly from that too.

:1127:

[Jana]

:1127:

Well I think Seya is recorder when it comes to mongoloid admixture in this region :P

[Aspirin]

Well I think Seya is recorder when it comes to mongoloid admixture in this region :P

Seya is far away from these guys, plus she is not representative at all for the region. Only Basescul have visible Mongolid admixture, but still is far way fro them. Were posted plenty of results from here, none come closer to these ones. Anyway, their ancestors are not from Moldova by origin, and intermixed heavealy between each other for centuries because of their Catholic faith, they are very North-Western genetically for the region, so nothing local in them.

[Jana]

Seya is far away from these guys, plus she is not representative at all for the region. Only Basescul have visible Mongolid admixture, but still is far way fro them. Were posted plenty of results from here, none come closer to these ones. Anyway, their ancestors are not from Moldova by origin, and intermixed heavealy between each other for centuries because of their Catholic faith, they are very North-Western genetically for the region, so nothing local in them.

Yeah, you are correct.
Biggest giveaway is their German admixture, I am not sure proper Csangos have it. Maybe Andre knows answer to that.

[Kökény]

Only Basescul have visible Mongolid admixture, but still is far way fro them.
Is there any Romanian member who scores higher than him?

[Chris596]

Is there any Romanian member who scores higher than him?

Yes I think Impaler. In some calculators he even gets just as much Turkic or more than some Balkan Turks.

[Aspirin]

I am not sure proper Csangos have it. Maybe Andre knows answer to that.

From Dunai's thread:

https://i.imgur.com/vzrp8Vs.png

[Aspirin]

Well, it doesn't matter that much to me if they are Szekely, Csango or Hungarian. It's more interesting that they managed to preserve so much of Hungarian Conqueror footprint, despite being surrounded by folk without that admixture. It shows that they lived in tight communities and didn't marry outside of them.

It does matter, and pretty much, Moldavian Hungarians are diverse, and of different background.

[Dunai]

Seya is far away from these guys, plus she is not representative at all for the region. Only Basescul have visible Mongolid admixture, but still is far way fro them. Were posted plenty of results from here, none come closer to these ones. Anyway, their ancestors are not from Moldova by origin, and intermixed heavealy between each other for centuries because of their Catholic faith, they are very North-Western genetically for the region, so nothing local in them.

In the Middle Ages the territory that later became Moldova was also settled by Germans, sent by the kings of Hungary together with Hungarians, they were all Catholics and later intermixed, thus resulting in Csángós. This may be the reason for pretty high Northwestern admixture in them.

[Dunai]

This is the updated Csángó average and national distances:

Hungarian_Csango,27.24,29.39,15.24,7.75,12.54,1.61 ,1.36,1.45,2.06,0.79,0.37,0.09,0.13

Target: Hungarian_Csango
Distance: 1.7616% / 1.76159382 | ADC: 0.5x
64.6 Bosniak
31.2 Hungarian
1.8 Kirgiz
1.2 French
1.2 Portuguese

Distance to: Hungarian_Csango
3.82497059 Bosniak
4.08957210 Croat
4.93146023 Serb
5.23718436 Hungarian
5.25519743 Moldovan
6.19407427 Slovenian
8.03031133 Montenegrin
8.23965412 Romanian
9.83840826 Macedonian

[Chris596]

In the Middle Ages the territory that later became Moldova was also settled by Germans, sent by the kings of Hungary together with Hungarians, they were all Catholics and later intermixed, thus resulting in Csángós. This may be the reason for pretty high Northwestern admixture in them.

I understand it, but how is it possible that I have almost 0% Germanic ancestry? This is actually quite rare also many people told me this that it's really surprising. My mother's family is from Hungary Alföld region and my father's family is from Szekely Land. I know that my maternal great great grandfather was born in Békés county (Southeast Hungary).

[Aspirin]

In the Middle Ages the territory that later became Moldova was also settled by Germans, sent by the kings of Hungary together with Hungarians, they were all Catholics and later intermixed, thus resulting in Csángós. This may be the reason for pretty high Northwestern admixture in them.

These ones are not realted to Medieval Hungarians from Moldova, they are Szekelys in origin from 18th century.

[Ion Basescul]

Seya is far away from these guys, plus she is not representative at all for the region. Only Basescul have visible Mongolid admixture, but still is far way fro them. Were posted plenty of results from here, none come closer to these ones. Anyway, their ancestors are not from Moldova by origin, and intermixed heavealy between each other for centuries because of their Catholic faith, they are very North-Western genetically for the region, so nothing local in them.

Now that you guys are opening this topic, I can show you the upper boundaries in this category (East Asian, Siberian and Amerindian) for people from the Moldavia region.
These are those who score more than 3.5% out of 240 samples:

Romania_Moldavia_mixed_18_Csango,30.53,30.04,16.00 ,7.12,7.63,1.12,0.08,4.67,0.40,2.40,0,0,0 = 7.47%

Romania_Moldavia_mixed_19_Csango,30.43,28.99,16.32 ,8.42,9.31,0.45,0,3.02,3.06,0,0,0,0 = 6.08%

Romania_Moldavia_mixed_11_Csango,26.96,29.64,13.81 ,7.10,10.90,3.80,0.80,1.40,3.06,1.43,0.38,0.72,0 = 5.89%
Romania_Moldavia_mixed_20_Csango,28.07,30.12,16.06 ,7.70,9.12,0.84,2.48,2.93,1.70,0.99,0,0,0 = 5.20%

Moldova_mixed_44_1/2Russian_1/2Moldovan,24.71,38.41,11.97,10.18,6.87,1.90,0.11,0 .25,4.56,0.14,0.49,0.11,0.31 = 4.95%
Romania_Moldavia_mixed_13_Csango,26.45,29.53,12.87 ,9.46,13.01,1.33,2.15,1.44,3.26,0,0,0.10,0.41 = 4.70%
Moldova_55_Chisinau_IonBasescul,25.42,29.37,15.04, 9.99,12.91,1.53,0.69,1.84,2.84,0,0.37,0,0 = 4.68%
Romania_Moldavia_16_Suceava,25.53,34.27,13.61,7.30 ,10.70,2.19,1.74,0,2.96,1.22,0.47,0,0 = 4.18%
Romania_Moldavia_mixed_12_Csango,24.80,29.69,15.01 ,4.95,17.36,2.11,1.29,1.52,1.14,1.49,1.34,0.17,0 = 4.15%
Moldova_8_Glodeni,21.77,34.40,15.61,12.12,9.73,1.4 0,0,0.83,2.20,1.11,0.82,0,0 = 4.14%
Moldova_mixed_57_1/2RussianIzmail_1/2MoldovanUngheniEdinet,24.12,37.75,12.57,3.55,14.9 3,2.29,0.71,0.43,0.48,3.17,0,0,0 = 4.05%
Moldova_mixed_2_2/4Ukrainian_1/4Moldovan_1/4Polish,23.69,39.46,11.70,7.35,10.48,0.62,2.40,0.3 3,1.51,2.18,0.28,0,0 = 4.02%
Romania_Moldavia_mixed_14_Csango,29.17,26.08,15.65 ,8.38,14.21,2.01,0.00,0.98,2.84,0.20,0.48,0,0 = 4.02%

Moldova_mixed_11_1/2Moldovan_1/2Ukrainian,22.51,37.17,13.01,7.82,11.58,1.68,1.85, 2.28,1.66,0,0,0.44,0 = 3.94%
Romania_Moldavia_18_Suceava,24.18,33.34,12.99,8.44 ,13.91,1.23,1.31,1.19,1.84,0.89,0.67,0,0 = 3.92%
Moldova_28_Balti,24.58,31.08,13.08,6.06,16.71,3.33 ,1.41,0,2.32,1.43,0,0,0 = 3.75%
Moldova_32_Balti,27.89,28.60,15.36,10.43,13.25,0.4 3,0,0.20,3.51,0,0.33,0,0 = 3.71%
Moldova_65_Cantemir,25.66,20.54,19.38,7.46,19.11,3 .14,0,1.73,1.97,0,0.31,0.71,0 = 3.70%
Romania_Moldavia_50_Galati,25.66,20.54,19.38,7.46, 19.11,3.14,0,1.73,1.97,0,0.31,0.71,0 = 3.70%
Moldova_mixed_7_1/2Cahul_1/2BriceniUkrainian_IonBasescul_mom,21.57,34.87,15.2 7,11.01,11.72,1.02,0.74,2.03,1.44,0.21,0.13,0,0 = 3.68%
Romania_Moldavia_57_Iasi,24.97,24.41,19.71,10.78,1 3.32,3.16,0,2.38,0.77,0.50,0,0,0 = 3.65%
Romania_Moldavia_29_Neamt,21.38,27.17,14.71,13.65, 16.38,2.64,0.06,1.68,1.96,0,0.39,0,0 = 3.64%
Romania_Moldavia_30_Neamt,26.34,27.91,12.93,10.38, 15.58,2.13,0.49,0.77,2.12,0.75,0.60,0,0 = 3.64%
Romania_Moldavia_51_Galati,25.16,26.55,17.24,7.34, 18.67,1.22,0.10,0.55,2.79,0.26,0,0,0.11 = 3.60%

[Dunai]

I understand it, but how is it possible that I have almost 0% Germanic ancestry? This is actually quite rare also many people told me this that it's really surprising. My mother's family is from Hungary Alföld region and my father's family is from Szekely Land. I know that my maternal great great grandfather was born in Békés county (Southeast Hungary).

I honestly cannot figure it out, both Alföld Hungarians and Székelys have some German, at least 5%.

[Kökény]

Yes I think Impaler. In some calculators he even gets just as much Turkic or more than some Balkan Turks.
I mean in K13.

[Ion Basescul]

I mean in K13.

You can see above, but it's only for Moldavia region and Moldova. Impaler scores 2.66%, so not that much.
If someone wants, I can include the rest of the regions.

[Kökény]

You can see above, but it's only for Moldavia region and Moldova. Impaler scores 2.66%, so not that much.
If someone wants, I can include the rest of the regions.
I was asking because from what I've seen, you were the only one who scored around my range. I am 4.68%.

[Ion Basescul]

I was asking because from what I've seen, you were the only one who scored around my range. I am 4.68%.

There are more from other regions.

[Jana]

I mean in K13.

Seya scores the most, but she doesn't post her results often.

[Token]

I understand it, but how is it possible that I have almost 0% Germanic ancestry? This is actually quite rare also many people told me this that it's really surprising. My mother's family is from Hungary Alföld region and my father's family is from Szekely Land. I know that my maternal great great grandfather was born in Békés county (Southeast Hungary).

It may be because the references aren't sensible enough to isolate your German ancestry, and not necessarily because you lack German ancestry. Stearsolina also have this problem.

[Harald Meller]

Stearsolina also have this problem.

Not enough German ancestry - a common First World Problem. Wait... haha, OK maybe not.

[17571imre]

It may be because the references aren't sensible enough to isolate your German ancestry, and not necessarily because you lack German ancestry. Stearsolina also have this problem.

i have the same thing:

Target: mh
Distance: 1.7897% / 1.78967511 | ADC: 0.5x
76.0 Hungarian_Szekely
13.0 Trentino
9.6 Swiss_German
1.0 Swiss_French
0.4 Hungarian_Transdanubia

it will only give me 9.6 Swiss German.

K15 does a better job at giving me my Dutch side

[vbnetkhio]

I understand it, but how is it possible that I have almost 0% Germanic ancestry? This is actually quite rare also many people told me this that it's really surprising. My mother's family is from Hungary Alföld region and my father's family is from Szekely Land. I know that my maternal great great grandfather was born in Békés county (Southeast Hungary).

i think your German and Armenian evens out with each other and becomes paleo-Balkan/Roman in most calculators.

[Turul Karom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrpu0TtmjOY


Csángo Hungarian, csángó Hungarian,
what are you, Csángó Hungarian
Bird fallen down from the tree
Abandoned, forgotten

Oh My God, what will happen with us?
Our children, and then of us nothing!
They are killing our language,
The treasure from our fathers!

You settled down on the steppe,
that you called homeland.
But no country, no home,
Today only God takes care of you!

We hear Hungary is still standing,
Lord of us, you too bless it
to be compassionate to us,
not to let us vanish.

You're oppressed by foreign language
Italian priests stand on your neck
you're unable to sing or confess,
use your mother tongue to say prayers

We are also Hungarians,
Already split from Asia.
Our God, help our destiny,
Don’t let the Csángó Hungarian be lost.


https://i.imgur.com/qCoirDn.jpg

[Maguzanci]

Seya scores the most, but she doesn't post her results often.

How much does she have?