Atrocious European IQ scores

[Supercomputer]

I've looked at some IQ scores from viewoniq.org (without student assessment studies as many claim you can't measure IQ based from student assessment) which has the latest database of IQs and there's no way around it. European IQs are horribly low. The White IQ (if we consider all Europeans to be White) is threfor far below 100. Only a few European countries have IQs at 100 or above and many many of them are around 90 and even lower. In Balkans and Greece the average IQ is at a US Black level (85-90). Particularly disappointing are IQs of Czechia, Ireland, Latvia, Ukraine, Romania and even Sweden. I've done a rough calculation and from these numbers the average IQ of Europe is 94,6. I don't know how much if any the scores in Western nations have been depressed by brown immigrants. In any case from this it would also seems White Americans are significantly smarter than Europeans. The database was created by professor David Becker of Chemnitz, Germany with help from Richard Lynn.


There are global maps already on the website, but I've done better quality zooms of Europe only:

Student assessment studies only:

https://i.postimg.cc/RV4KyWnD/SAS-only.png (https://postimg.cc/G9g4shKF)free photo hosting (https://postimages.org/)

IQ plus SAS

https://i.postimg.cc/ncF9TNy8/IQ-plus-SAS.png (https://postimg.cc/z3QfG2Dp)

IQ only (Unweighted)

https://i.postimg.cc/j5YLf1HF/IQ-only-unweighted.png (https://postimg.cc/f35znBgc)

IQ only (Weighted by sample size and data quality, more reliable)

https://i.postimg.cc/kXgDWKSq/IQ-only-Weighted.png (https://postimg.cc/vDCQs1XN)

To check the data yourself go to https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9 and download the latest dataset. Under the xls file got o FAV tab and UW column is unweighted IQ, NW column is IQ weighted by sample size and QNV is IQ weighted by both sample size and data quality.

Your thoughts?

[Zeno]

Pathetic fucking maps.

We know you hate southern Europeans, don't have to do maps.

Plus, the Becker at al. data showed Greece at the mid 90s to 100 almost. You just fused the fucking Lynn data.

[Supercomputer]

Pathetic fucking maps.

I agree. The numbers are pathetic.

[Zeno]

I agree. The numbers are pathetic.

See the edit in my comment.

[kundur]

Numbers in fact explain why Asians have the lead in innovations, with China rising as superpower; Singapore, South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong being the other major tech development hubs of the world. There is an obvious shift in the gravity and the Asia-Pacific region is becoming the epicenter of development and the new hub of human progress. This trend has been noticeable ever since 1950's, but has intensified over the last two decades.
The fact that Finland and Estonia, two nations speaking Asiatic-like (well, still Euro though) languages, have the lead in Northern Europe just confirm that trend.

[Chris596]

Numbers in fact explain why Asians have the lead in innovations, with China raising as superpower; Singapore, South Korea, Japan being the other major tech development hubs of the world. There is a shift in the gravity and Asia-Pacific region becomes the epicenter and new hub of human progress. This trend has been noticeable ever since 1950's, but has intensified over the last two decades.
The fact that Finland and Estonia, two nations speaking Asiatic-like (well, still Euro though) languages, have the lead in Northern Europe just confirm that trend.

Don't forget about Catholics

:rolleyes:

[Benyzero]

These are just the average, most people, you like it or not are not too intelligent. The other half has an intelligence above 100 and there is a very small percentage above 130. Developed countries with good nutritions and scholarships will have higher IQ.

[Supercomputer]

Pathetic fucking maps.

We know you hate southern Europeans, don't have to do maps.

Plus, the Becker at al. data showed Greece at the mid 90s to 100 almost. You just fused the fucking Lynn data.

I didn't do anything but quote the data. If you want to believe I hate South Europeans based on one stupid post i made go ahead and think so, I don't give a fuck what you think. Show me where Becker data shows Greece close to 100. If it's a mistake go ahead and email him to correct his data, don't bug me with it, I'm just quoting what viewonIQ.org says. And for your info as you can see Northern Europe has low IQ too. (Ireland only 90, Latvia only 91 and Sweden only 95)

[pulstar]

I don't find Lynn's and Vanhanen's guessometry relevant to actual IQ of individuals. They need to take representative sample out of population and score their Wechsler test.

[Cristiano viejo]

We know you hate southern Europeans, don't have to do maps.
Funny thing is that he is Southern European too :laugh:

[Supercomputer]

Funny thing is that he is Southern European too :laugh:

I do not hate South Europeans. But I do hate black and brown people that come to the West and don't assimilate, cry false grievances of oppression and blame Europeans for their problems.

[Cristiano viejo]

I do not hate South Europeans.

I dont care if you are a self hater, but it would be funny.

[The Lawspeaker]

Our jokes that the Belgians are stupid seem to be true after all.


:P


("Calmly smoking his cigar to the chorus of Angry Belgian screeching")

[Supercomputer]

Our jokes that the Belgians are stupid seem to be true after all.


:P


("Calmly smoking his cigar to the chorus of Angry Belgian screeching")

Well yeah in former Yugoslavia there was a joke that Bosnians were stupid and it seems to be the case at least with their their student assessment scores :D

[JamesBond007]

Psychology, from where IQ tests come from, and psychiatry are pseudo-sciences:


IQ tests can be seen as a moral technology used specifically for the social judgement of school children under the "Guise" of science. They are direct assessments of the degree of adaptation of individual children to the expectations for others have of them. The key to success of Alfred Binet's test was not the ability to accurately measure intelligence-- which he thought was impossible to predict through such time-restricted tests--but it's administrative usefulness was in identifying problematic individuals. Asians score high because they are more docile and conformist .

[Supercomputer]

Psychiatry, from where IQ tests come from, and psychiatry are pseudo-sciences:


IQ tests can be seen as a moral technology used specifically for the social judgement of school children under the "Guise" of science. They are direct assessments of the degree of adaptation of individual children to the expectations for others have of them. The key to success of Alfred Binet's test was not the ability to accurately measure intelligence-- which he thought was impossible to predict through such time-restricted tests--but it's administrative usefulness was in identifying problematic individuals. Asians score high because they are more docile and conformist .


IQ is the most predictively (and therefor scientifically) valid psychometric. It has survived ideologically driven attacks for more than 100 years. Here is what left wing neuroscientist Sam Harris says about IQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWwz6Xf4Zqw

[Kamal900]

Our jokes that the Belgians are stupid seem to be true after all.


:P


("Calmly smoking his cigar to the chorus of Angry Belgian screeching")

Them and their mussels and fries.

[Zeno]

I didn't do anything but quote the data. If you want to believe I hate South Europeans based on one stupid post i made go ahead and think so, I don't give a fuck what you think. Show me where Becker data shows Greece close to 100. If it's a mistake go ahead and email him to correct his data, don't bug me with it, I'm just quoting what viewonIQ.org says. And for your info as you can see Northern Europe has low IQ too. (Ireland only 90, Latvia only 91 and Sweden only 95)

This is a map purely by Becker's data.

I zoomed in a little and we're in light green.

https://astutenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/world-iq-map-april-19.jpg

[Supercomputer]

This is a map purely by Becker's data.

I zoomed in a little and we're in light green.

https://astutenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/world-iq-map-april-19.jpg

This is the same as my map of IQ + SAS on the fist page. Check it out. I even used the same colors in Photoshop to just made a HQ version of it for Europe. Check the exact color in for Greece photoshop yourself for the two maps and you will see it's the same. Greece seems to be good in SAS but worse in raw IQ. I don't know which one of these is a better proxy for intelligence (raw IQ or IQ plus SAS). I've heard some people on these forms say you can't use how good students are in school to measure IQ s, on the other hand LYnn and Vanhanen used SAS, so I posted both in my maps (perhaps somebody more knowledgeable on the topic can shed light on weather addition of SAS makes final IQ scores more valid). However my text reference was based solely on raw IQ.

[Zeno]

This is the same as my map of IQ + SAS on the fist page. Check it out. I even used the same colors in Photoshop to just made a HQ version of it for Europe. Check the exact color in for Greece photoshop yourself for the two maps and you will see it's the same. Greece seems to be good in SAS but worse in raw IQ. I don't know which one of these is a better proxy for intelligence (raw IQ or IQ plus SAS). I've heard some people on these forms say you can't use how good students are in school to measure IQ s, on the other hand LYnn and Vanhanen used SAS, so I posted both in my maps. However my text reference was based solely on raw IQ.

No, you didn't.

Plus, this study is way more accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/x5jwD4I.jpg

As for Greece's performance in raw IQ, considering the bibliography Lynn has taken for Greece in his studies in comparison to the bibliography of other countries, I would say it's shit. In particular, he put an age sample for Greece that begins from the age of 5 while other countries begin at 10. This is vastly unfair as countries that include lower ages in their sample will inevitably get lower scores.

It's also the immigration factor. We have Albanians who on average score 80-82 IQ points. No offence here.

[Supercomputer]

No, you didn't.

Plus, this study is way more accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/x5jwD4I.jpg

As for Greece's performance in raw IQ, considering the bibliography Lynn has taken for Greece in his studies in comparison to the bibliography of other countries, I would say it's shit. In particular, he put an age sample for Greece that begins from the age of 5 while other countries begin at 10. This is vastly unfair as countries that include lower ages in their sample will inevitably get lower scores.

It's also the immigration factor. We have Albanians who on average score 80-82 IQ points. No offence here.

What do you mean "no you didn't" ?

[Dunai]

Usually average IQ level is in direct correlation with the level of poverty that individual is raised in. Hence the regional difference within Europe. Of course there seem to be exceptions from this rule, where richer countries underperform compared to East Central European countries that aren't that rich, to which I don't have any theory why is it so.

"The usual side effects of poverty are abundant and well documented. They include crime, chronic stress and a long list of health conditions. But you may not have heard of this one: lower IQ. That’s according to a recent post by Alice Walton in the University of Chicago Business School’s journal, The Chicago Booth Review: “How poverty changes your mindset.” Walton, reviewing research with which I was troublingly unfamiliar, reports the bottom line: that poverty lowers your IQ — in one study, by something like 13 points."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/analysis-how-poverty-can-drive-down-intelligence

[Götterfunke]

I've looked at some IQ scores from viewoniq.org (without student assessment studies as many claim you can't measure IQ based from student assessment) which has the latest database of IQs and there's no way around it. European IQs are horribly low. The White IQ (if we consider all Europeans to be White) is threfor far below 100. Only a few European countries have IQs at 100 or above and many many of them are around 90 and even lower. In Balkans and Greece the average IQ is at a US Black level (85-90). Particularly disappointing are IQs of Czechia, Ireland, Latvia, Ukraine, Romania and even Sweden. I've done a rough calculation and from these numbers the average IQ of Europe is 94,6. I don't know how much if any the scores in Western nations have been depressed by brown immigrants. In any case from this it would also seems White Americans are significantly smarter than Europeans. The database was created by professor David Becker of Chemnitz, Germany with help from Richard Lynn.


There are global maps already on the website, but I've done better quality zooms of Europe only:

Student assessment studies only:

https://i.postimg.cc/RV4KyWnD/SAS-only.png (https://postimg.cc/G9g4shKF)free photo hosting (https://postimages.org/)

IQ plus SAS

https://i.postimg.cc/ncF9TNy8/IQ-plus-SAS.png (https://postimg.cc/z3QfG2Dp)

IQ only (Unweighted)

https://i.postimg.cc/j5YLf1HF/IQ-only-unweighted.png (https://postimg.cc/f35znBgc)

IQ only (Weighted by sample size and data quality, more reliable)

https://i.postimg.cc/kXgDWKSq/IQ-only-Weighted.png (https://postimg.cc/vDCQs1XN)

To check the data yourself go to https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9 and download the latest dataset. Under the xls file got o FAV tab and UW column is unweighted IQ, NW column is IQ weighted by sample size and QNV is IQ weighted by both sample size and data quality.

Your thoughts?

"Studies" like these are close to meaningless in multiracial and multinational countries like the Federal Republic of Germany in 2020.

The data is from 2012-2014 and the researchers weren't even sure about the nationality of their participants. As long as you were able to speak German fluently, you were included in the statistic.

The same was most likely the case for Sweden, Belgium, France etc. as well, which is why their IQ is that low.

That being said, the IQ for Germany doesn't seem that far off. I'd guess that the German natives would have an IQ of roughly 104 or 105 in a society free of immigration.

One has to mention that not only over one quarter of "Germans" were born with foreign background (at least one parent not being German), but that the immigrants with the statistically lower IQ (mostly Turks, Arabs, and since 2015 also Africans) pull down the average of the natives simply by being in the same class with them. It is a well-known phenomenon that the performance of all students will be negatively impacted by low-IQ students in the same class, which means the immigrants do not only drag down the national average because of their own low IQ, but because they negatively influence the IQ of their classmates (German natives) as well.

Romanias IQ also seems a bit too low to be true, don't know what went wrong there though.

[Supercomputer]

Usually average IQ level is in direct correlation with the level of poverty that individual is raised in. Hence the regional difference within Europe. Of course there seem to be exceptions from this rule, where richer countries underperform compared to East Central European countries that aren't that rich, to which I don't have any theory why is it so.

"The usual side effects of poverty are abundant and well documented. They include crime, chronic stress and a long list of health conditions. But you may not have heard of this one: lower IQ. That’s according to a recent post by Alice Walton in the University of Chicago Business School’s journal, The Chicago Booth Review: “How poverty changes your mindset.” Walton, reviewing research with which I was troublingly unfamiliar, reports the bottom line: that poverty lowers your IQ — in one study, by something like 13 points."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/analysis-how-poverty-can-drive-down-intelligence

Actually as this has been debunked. It a politically motivated talking point designed to protect minorities (particularly black people) from resentment that stems from the fact they score lower in IQ, so then IQ is blamed on environment. A study from the 1970s that measured black children raised in upper middle class white families debunked the idea IQ differences are due to poverty.

A ver big proponent of the poverty hypothesis is Jewish fella named Eric Turkheimer who has been debunked here

https://www.bitchute.com/video/WPV6Hz9iwQo/

[Götterfunke]

Actually as this has been debunked. It a politically motivated talking point designed to protect minorities (particularly black people) from resentment that stems from the fact they score lower in IQ, so then IQ is blamed on environment. A study from the 1970s that measured black children raised in upper middle class white families debunked the idea IQ differences are due to poverty.

A ver big proponent of the poverty hypothesis is Jewish fella named Eric Turkheimer who has been debunked here

https://www.bitchute.com/video/WPV6Hz9iwQo/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

The study you mentioned.

It clearly shows that Black people have a lower IQ, even if they're raised by wealthy White people.

[Roy]

Pathetic fucking maps.

We know you hate southern Europeans, don't have to do maps.

Plus, the Becker at al. data showed Greece at the mid 90s to 100 almost. You just fused the fucking Lynn data.

This was literally a low IQ move from him.

[JamesBond007]

IQ is the most predictively (and therefor scientifically) valid psychometric. It has survived ideologically driven attacks for more than 100 years. Here is what left wing neuroscientist Sam Harris says about IQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWwz6Xf4Zqw


IQ tests are obsolete at best and pseudo-science at worst :


Scientists debunk the IQ myth: Notion of measuring one's intelligence quotient by singular, standardized test is highly misleading


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121219133334.htm


Forget about controversial, old-fashioned IQ tests as a measure of intelligence. A new machine-learning algorithm, which was developed by scientists at Caltech, can predict a person’s intellectual ability with unprecedented accuracy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/322329


Goodbye, IQ Tests: Brain Imaging Can Reveal Intelligence Levels

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicaldaily.com/goodbye-iq-tests-brain-imaging-can-reveal-intelligence-levels-241680%3famp=1

[Supercomputer]

No, you didn't.

Plus, this study is way more accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/x5jwD4I.jpg

As for Greece's performance in raw IQ, considering the bibliography Lynn has taken for Greece in his studies in comparison to the bibliography of other countries, I would say it's shit. In particular, he put an age sample for Greece that begins from the age of 5 while other countries begin at 10. This is vastly unfair as countries that include lower ages in their sample will inevitably get lower scores.

It's also the immigration factor. We have Albanians who on average score 80-82 IQ points. No offence here.

IQ researches do control for age. Do you think they are stupid?

As for that study by Buj from 1981 I am aware of it. It is not representative for the whole countries. For example his number for Yugoslavia of 103,6 comes only from Croatia. (You can check sources in the xls by Becker I linked. Buj didn't study any other Yugo republics but Croatia). Also it is just one study, Lynn and Becker collected and synchronized multiple studies and they include the one from Buj so I would say they are more reliable.

[Supercomputer]

IQ tests are obsolete at best and pseudo-science at worst :


Scientists debunk the IQ myth: Notion of measuring one's intelligence quotient by singular, standardized test is highly misleading


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121219133334.htm


Forget about controversial, old-fashioned IQ tests as a measure of intelligence. A new machine-learning algorithm, which was developed by scientists at Caltech, can predict a person’s intellectual ability with unprecedented accuracy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/322329


Goodbye, IQ Tests: Brain Imaging Can Reveal Intelligence Levels

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicaldaily.com/goodbye-iq-tests-brain-imaging-can-reveal-intelligence-levels-241680%3famp=1

No it's not. IQ denial is just pseudoscience designed to protect minorities and "prevent racism". If IQ didn't correlate with race nobody would dispute IQ.

[Dunai]

Actually as this has been debunked. It a politically motivated talking point designed to protect minorities (particularly black people) from resentment that stems from the fact they score lower in IQ, so then IQ is blamed on environment. A study from the 1970s that measured black children raised in upper middle class white families debunked the idea IQ differences are due to poverty.

A ver big proponent of the poverty hypothesis is Jewish fella named Eric Turkheimer who has been debunked here

https://www.bitchute.com/video/WPV6Hz9iwQo/

Of course there will always be some people with a degree in sociology and psychology that will try to claim race is in direct relation with IQ, but in no academic circles are such theories remotely accepted. All reputable scientists correlate IQ levels with the surrounding and not genetics. I am not surprised that Alt-Right and Neo-Fascist circles love to spread the IQ=race theory, since this totally serves their propaganda to classify groups of people as inferior just because their ethnic or racial background. Real academics, who have positions at faculties and universities have debunked such dated theories already for decades.

[Supercomputer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

The study you mentioned.

It clearly shows that Black people have a lower IQ, even if they're raised by wealthy White people.

Exactly.

[Supercomputer]

Of course there will always be some people with a degree in sociology and psychology that will try to claim race is in direct relation with IQ, but in no academic circles are such theories remotely accepted. All reputable scientists correlate IQ levels with the surrounding and not genetics. I am not surprised that Alt-Right and Neo-Fascist circles love to spread the IQ=race theory, since this totally serves their propaganda to classify groups of people as inferior just because their ethnic or racial background. Real academics, who have positions at faculties and universities have debunked such dated theories already for decades.

So called real academics tend to be biased against race and IQ because they fear the rise of racism. They are also disproportionately Jews who have their own phobias and paranoias of "Nazism" and "Nazis". Ironically the Nazis dismissed IQ tests just like Stalin did and just like modern left wing "academics" do.

[Götterfunke]

Of course there will always be some people with a degree in sociology and psychology that will try to claim race is in direct relation with IQ, but in no academic circles are such theories remotely accepted. All reputable scientists correlate IQ levels with the surrounding and not genetics. I am not surprised that Alt-Right and Neo-Fascist circles love to spread the IQ=race theory, since this totally serves their propaganda to classify groups of people as inferior just because their ethnic or racial background. Real academics, who have positions at faculties and universities have debunked such dated theories already for decades.

Of course there will always be some people with a degree in sociology and psychology that will try to claim race is in no way related to IQ, because in most academic circles claiming otherwise is not remotely accepted. All reputable scientists correlate IQ levels with the surrounding and not genetics, so that they will still get published. I am not surprised that the leftist media (controlled by the jews) spreads the IQ=environment theory, since this totally serves their multicultural propaganda to flood Europe with immigrants and wipe out the native populations. Real academics, who don't care about positions or career but about the truth first and foremost, have been proving that intelligence correlates with race for decades.

[JamesBond007]

IQ is the most predictively (and therefor scientifically) valid psychometric. It has survived ideologically driven attacks for more than 100 years. Here is what left wing neuroscientist Sam Harris says about IQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWwz6Xf4Zqw

It is funny if you study physics you become acutely aware of what science really is. Physics is the king of the sciences in that all other sciences must obey it's laws e.g. chemistry and biology etc.. the idea that psychology and psychiatry obey the laws of physics is nonsensical because they are pseudo-sciences.

IQ or psychometry falls under the wider discipline of psychology :

Psychology has become an increasingly powerful component of ideology, ruling ideas that endorse exploitation and sabotage struggles against oppression. This psychology circulates way beyond colleges and clinics, and different versions of psychology as ideology are to be found nearly everywhere in capitalist society.

[Jana]

As for that study by Buj from 1981 I am aware of it. It is not representative for the whole countries. For example his number for Yugoslavia of 103,6 comes only from Croatia.

So, how did we fall from 103 to 93 in 30 years? Doesn't seem logical.

[pulstar]

So, how did we fall from 103 to 93 in 30 years? Doesn't seem logical.

Smart people didn't reproduce :D

[Zeno]

So, how did we fall from 103 to 93 in 30 years? Doesn't seem logical.

The later studies aren't reliable really. I mean, Greece has fallen from 101,3 (with the standard error of the mean) to 86. How is this possible?

[Maria Sharapova]

It is funny if you study physics you become acutely aware of what science really is. Physics is the king of the sciences in that all other sciences must obey it's laws e.g. chemistry and biology etc.. the idea that psychology and psychiatry obey the laws of physics is nonsensical because they are pseudo-sciences.

IQ or psychometry falls under the wider discipline of psychology :

Psychology has become an increasingly powerful component of ideology, ruling ideas that endorse exploitation and sabotage struggles against oppression. This psychology circulates way beyond colleges and clinics, and different versions of psychology as ideology are to be found nearly everywhere in capitalist society.

Whether or not IQ is pseudo-science is a debate for another time but something doesn't need to be 'science' to have utility per se. It's a system and method of measuring someone's ability in certain cognitive functions. Are these functions the ones we should be measuring when determining ones "intelligence"? I don't know, but it doesn't matter if correlation is found between IQ and other key metrics such as income amount or education level that's reason enough to take it seriously. Call it what you want, it's irrelevant.

[JamesBond007]

No it's not. IQ denial is just pseudoscience designed to protect minorities and "prevent racism". If IQ didn't correlate with race nobody would dispute IQ.

IQ tests used to show that unwanted immigrants, to America, in the past, such as Jews and Chinese had low IQs but now it is the opposite because IQ of s bullshit .

Geneticists, have produced very strong evidence that the biological differences between Europeans, Africans, Chinese and Native Americans is negiligible. IQ differences being based on genetics is not scientific.

[JamesBond007]

Whether or not IQ is pseudo-science is a debate for another time but something doesn't need to be 'science' to have utility per se. It's a system and method of measuring someone's ability in certain cognitive functions. Are these functions the ones we should be measuring when determining ones "intelligence"? I don't know, but it doesn't matter if correlation is found between IQ and other key metrics such as income amount or education level that's reason enough to take it seriously. Call it what you want, it's irrelevant.

I am living in the 21st century where infotech and biotech are radically transforming society. In the 21st century we use brain imaging and computer algorithms to assess human intelligence.

You use IQ tests and horse and buggies instead of cars because you must be Amish or something

[Damião de Góis]

Quite amusing how we are repeatedly shown as having an IQ of 90 (or lower) on this forum, which even led Costa Rican spics to comment on our "mediocre IQ". However, this is from 2011 and the sample size is significant. So yeah...

https://i.imgur.com/booT7cr.jpg

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236273688_Regional_Differences_in_Intelligence_and _per_capita_Incomes_in_Portugal

[Götterfunke]

Quite amusing how we are repeatedly shown as having an IQ of 90 (or lower) on this forum, which even led Costa Rican spics to comment on our "mediocre IQ". However, this is from 2011 and the sample size is significant. So yeah...

https://i.imgur.com/booT7cr.jpg

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236273688_Regional_Differences_in_Intelligence_and _per_capita_Incomes_in_Portugal

It's probably due to the Negroid influence. No offense.

Brazils mean IQ is even lower.

[Damião de Góis]

It's probably due to the Negroid influence. No offense.

Brazils mean IQ is even lower.

Our national average is 100 because of negroid influence? Ok...

[Götterfunke]

Our national average is 100 because of negroid influence? Ok...

90 according to the map provided by OP.

[Maria Sharapova]

In the 21st century we use brain imaging
Brain imaging is indeed showing connection with IQ scores. Obviously an MRI is more accurate, but brain imaging techniques and IQ tests complement eachover in understanding the functioning of an individual's brain. By your logic doctors shouldn't do a physical exam of their patients because an MRI or CT scan would better diagnose the potential issue. We can't just give everyone a fMRI to gauge their intelligence just as doctors don't send everyone of their patients for an MRI scan each time they complain of a headache. This is for obvious time and cost restraints and is also a matter of efficient practice.


They found that cells from people with higher IQ have longer, more complex dendrites and faster action potentials especially during increased activity. With computational modelling they could also show that neurons with larger dendrites and faster action potentials can process more information coming in and can pass more detailed information on to other neurons.
https://sos-ch-dk-2.exo.io/public-website-production/filer_public/f7/e9/f7e93fa6-1a18-4274-a6db-279c852c4f6d/pz2.png
https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/en/follow-hbp/news/brains-of-smarter-people-have-bigger-and-faster-neurons/

Also read this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4379054/

[Damião de Góis]

90 according to the map provided by OP.

I just posted a study showing otherwise. I've seen that 90 on maps but i don't know where it comes from. Perhaps you can show me?

[Götterfunke]

I just posted a study showing otherwise. I've seen that 90 on maps but i don't know where it comes from. Perhaps you can show me?

OP linked the source as well.

Although, these "studies" always have to be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen a study where Italy had the highest IQ in all of Europe, then again one where Switzerland was leading, and now it is Germany.

The methodologies used for these IQ-maps are questionable.

Although it's not a secret that the further South you go, the further the IQ decreases, in general. Exceptions prove that rule.

[renaissance12]

Numbers in fact explain why Asians have the lead in innovations, with China rising as superpower; Singapore, South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong being the other major tech development hubs of the world. There is an obvious shift in the gravity and the Asia-Pacific region is becoming the epicenter of development and the new hub of human progress. This trend has been noticeable ever since 1950's, but has intensified over the last two decades.
The fact that Finland and Estonia, two nations speaking Asiatic-like (well, still Euro though) languages, have the lead in Northern Europe just confirm that trend.

I Would Like To Know What are asian Achievements Before and After 1950

[Zeno]

90 according to the map provided by OP.

You're fucking retarded.

[luc2112]

It's probably due to the Negroid influence. No offense..
Not for Portugal


Brazils mean IQ is even lower.
Brazil yes

[Damião de Góis]

OP linked the source as well.

Although, these "studies" always have to be taken with a grain of salt. I've seen a study where Italy had the highest IQ in all of Europe, then again one where Switzerland was leading, and now it is Germany.

The methodologies used for these IQ-maps are questionable.

Although it's not a secret that the further South you go, the further the IQ decreases, in general. Exceptions prove that rule.

I can't find anything on the OP's sources other than a link to other images. Can you show me the study that established our 90 IQ that are on these maps?

[Insuperable]

No, you didn't.

Plus, this study is way more accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/x5jwD4I.jpg

As for Greece's performance in raw IQ, considering the bibliography Lynn has taken for Greece in his studies in comparison to the bibliography of other countries, I would say it's shit. In particular, he put an age sample for Greece that begins from the age of 5 while other countries begin at 10. This is vastly unfair as countries that include lower ages in their sample will inevitably get lower scores.

It's also the immigration factor. We have Albanians who on average score 80-82 IQ points. No offence here.

IQ in the West is falling. There are many studies that show that.

One study argued that in Britain IQ has dropped by more than 10 points since the Victorian era.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289613000470

[Götterfunke]

I can't find anything on the OP's sources other than a link to other images. Can you show me the study that established our 90 IQ that are on these maps?

https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9 this is the data. If you click on the different versions, a download will start with several images and text files. In the text files, the studies used for the map are included.

[dududud]

You don't really understand what "average" means: when we talk about an average of 100 for Europeans, it simply means that there are people who have a little less than 100 and others a little more than 100, hence the fact that we get an average of 100.

It is as if a school class had an average mark of 15/20; this does not mean that all have strictly 15/20, but that some have a little less (12/13/14) and others a little more (16/17/18), some have strictly 15/20, but not the majority.

[luc2112]

The key to success of Alfred Binet's test was not the ability to accurately measure intelligence-- which he thought was impossible to predict through such time-restricted tests--but it's administrative usefulness was in identifying problematic individuals. Asians score high because they are more docile and conformist .

Iq measures are just logical reasoning. Some Asian countries score high because they are more culturally disciplined and more mentally demanding..

[Damião de Góis]

https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9 this is the data. If you click on the different versions, a download will start with several images and text files. In the text files, the studies used for the map are included.

I have looked at it twice and there's nothing for me in those zip files. So far the only Portugal IQ study i can find is this one, and the score is not 90:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236273688_Regional_Differences_in_Intelligence_and _per_capita_Incomes_in_Portugal

[AdrianV]

Iq measures are just logical reasoning. Some Asian countries score high because they are more culturally disciplined and more mentally demanding..

Really?
https://headtopics.com/images/2019/10/21/cnn/a-school-in-india-has-apologized-after-photos-emerged-of-students-wearing-cardboard-boxes-on-their-h-1186188143223099392.webp
https://media-eng.dhakatribune.com/uploads/2019/10/capture-1571551994059.PNG
https://i.imgur.com/DYfoi2X.jpg

[pulstar]

Whether or not IQ is pseudo-science is a debate for another time but something doesn't need to be 'science' to have utility per se. It's a system and method of measuring someone's ability in certain cognitive functions. Are these functions the ones we should be measuring when determining ones "intelligence"? I don't know, but it doesn't matter if correlation is found between IQ and other key metrics such as income amount or education level that's reason enough to take it seriously. Call it what you want, it's irrelevant.

Correlation =/= causation

[luc2112]

Really?

Yes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrYnIBfkOcA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXswlCa7dug

[Nurzat]

the map doesn't surprise me at all - living among Romanians I see how stupid so many of us are, unfortunately. a very backward nation

[luc2112]

There is no miracle or super-genetics. In a semi-civilized state or part of the poor population, the IQ measure does not exceed 90. Countries with higher IQ scores have higher per capita income and better education system (there are few exceptions)

African SSA need further investigation. At the moment they score lower than other races in the same state.

[Aldaris]

Just because you find a publisher who will publish your shit doesn't mean anything. That's where it actually only begins. Your paper has to be peer-reviewed to be good if it is supposed to be relevant.

Here's one the reviews on the article in question (it is not public so I had to reupload on a public server, just click on the right download link).

https://uloz.to/file/VTr7cgRXJlaL/out-pdf

The gist of it is them politely saying - 'thanks for the reference section, man, now we can take the data and do it again for real, dummy'.

[Supercomputer]

It is funny if you study physics you become acutely aware of what science really is. Physics is the king of the sciences in that all other sciences must obey it's laws e.g. chemistry and biology etc.. the idea that psychology and psychiatry obey the laws of physics is nonsensical because they are pseudo-sciences.

IQ or psychometry falls under the wider discipline of psychology :

Psychology has become an increasingly powerful component of ideology, ruling ideas that endorse exploitation and sabotage struggles against oppression. This psychology circulates way beyond colleges and clinics, and different versions of psychology as ideology are to be found nearly everywhere in capitalist society.

Psychology and psychometry are not pseudosciences. Anything that has predictive validity is not a pseudoscience nad IQ is a very good predictor or employment and life success. That is what science is about. Predictive validity. IQ denial is actually what is pseudo motivated by unwillingness to accept the truth.

[Supercomputer]

IQ tests used to show that unwanted immigrants, to America, in the past, such as Jews and Chinese had low IQs but now it is the opposite because IQ of s bullshit .

Geneticists, have produced very strong evidence that the biological differences between Europeans, Africans, Chinese and Native Americans is negiligible. IQ differences being based on genetics is not scientific.

IQ tests never showed Jews and Chinese having low intelligence. They did show it for Italians and some Slavic groups. Also IQ scores can change over time based on what classes of immigrants are coming. Also nobody denies environment can improve IQ if one is living in a very bad environment. However that is less the case today when most people in the developed world live in good enough environments.

[Supercomputer]

I have looked at it twice and there's nothing for me in those zip files. So far the only Portugal IQ study i can find is this one, and the score is not 90:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236273688_Regional_Differences_in_Intelligence_and _per_capita_Incomes_in_Portugal

I've explained it in the original post. Download the NIQ-DATASET-V1.3.3, open the XLS file and click on the FAV tab. The first three columns are IQ scores from unweighted to weighted. To find the source click the REC tab, look for Portugal and scroll all the way right to the reference tab. Portugal's IQ is based from average of 3 studies. One from 1981, one from 2006 and one from 2016.

If you want additional info read the manual in the ZIP file.

[Zeno]

Just because you find a publisher who will publish your shit doesn't mean anything. That's where it actually only begins. Your paper has to be peer-reviewed to be good if it is supposed to be relevant.

Here's one the reviews on the article in question (it is not public so I had to reupload on a public server, just click on the right download link).

https://uloz.to/file/VTr7cgRXJlaL/out-pdf

The gist of it is them politely saying - 'thanks for the reference section, man, now we can take the data and do it again for real, dummy'.

Yeah, they're basically saying: "Nice try you buffoon, but do real survey".

[luc2112]

IQ tests never showed Jews and Chinese having low intelligence. They did show it for Italians and some Slavic groups. Also IQ scores can change over time based on what classes of immigrants are coming. Also nobody denies environment can improve IQ if one is living in a very bad environment. However that is less the case today when most people in the developed world live in good enough environments.

Yes it is scientific, but not conclusive for Races (The conditions are not the same)

Here some measures that I have (R. Lynn)

Asian: 100
Brazilian White: 94
Afro-mix Brown: 81
SSA: 71 (the same from South Africa)


Amerindian is IQ: 87 (tribes), Slavic farmer from the countryside IQ: 79, african congo SSA IQ: 80 and Berber North African IQ: 84

[luc2112]

IQ is a very good predictor or employment and life success.
Unfortunately useless for the Swedes who are currently being ruled by egocentric women and men without testicles.

[Supercomputer]

Slavic farmer from the countryside IQ: 79,

That's the first time I hear this. Sounds too low.

[Zeno]

IQ researches do control for age. Do you think they are stupid?

As for that study by Buj from 1981 I am aware of it. It is not representative for the whole countries. For example his number for Yugoslavia of 103,6 comes only from Croatia. (You can check sources in the xls by Becker I linked. Buj didn't study any other Yugo republics but Croatia). Also it is just one study, Lynn and Becker collected and synchronized multiple studies and they include the one from Buj so I would say they are more reliable.

No, they're not reliable. Lynn literally counts on economic factors for his conclusions. I once saw Lynn's own data from the 1990s and he put Greece into the 99-101 bracket. And now, since 2012, he puts us at 92. Because of economic indices.

[Supercomputer]

No, they're not reliable. Lynn literally counts on economic factors for his conclusions. I once saw Lynn's own data from the 1990s and he put Greece into the 99-101 bracket. And now, since 2012, he puts us at 92. Because of economic indices.

More likely it was just updated due to uncovering new studies and doing better job at synchronizing the results.

[Zeno]

More likely it was just updated due to uncovering new studies.

Nope. It's because of economic indices, particularly GDP per capita. I read Lynn's latest survey from last year, the introduction focuses mainly on GDP per capita.

[ixulescu]

the map doesn't surprise me at all - living among Romanians I see how stupid so many of us are, unfortunately. a very backward nation

Self-haters rank at the bottom.

Weren't you curious to see what data they used? It's all bullshit.

Here are the IQ numbers from largest IQ study in Romania with 12k participants:

https://i.postimg.cc/DwZFqNzn/IQ-Romania.png

By the way, the dudes who compiled the figures from the OP quote this study but didn't include the figures in their calculations - instead they've put in some crappy numbers from the 70s.

I smell rat here.

[Supercomputer]

Nope. It's because of economic indices, particularly GDP per capita. I read Lynn's latest survey from last year, the introduction focuses mainly on GDP per capita.

Of course he focuses on GDP per capita, but in a theory that IQ increases wealth. He does not use GDP per capita to calculate IQ. That would be obviously stupid.

[Supercomputer]

Self-haters rank at the bottom.

Weren't you curious to see what data they used? It's all bullshit.

Here are the IQ numbers from largest IQ study in Romania with 12k participants:

https://i.postimg.cc/DwZFqNzn/IQ-Romania.png

By the way, the dudes who compiled the figures from the OP quote this study but didn't include the figures in their calculations - instead they've put in some crappy numbers from the 70s.

I smell rat here.

What's the name of the study/researcher? I'll check if it it's sourced here.

[Zeno]

Of course he focuses on GDP per capita, but in a theory that IQ increases wealth. He does not use GDP per capita to calculate IQ. That would be obviously stupid.

Yeah, but here's the point: when Greece was economically prosperous before 2009, he always put it at 99-101 points. But in 2012 onwards, he always puts us at 92. Why? Because he directly correlates it to the trajectory of our GDP per capita.

[luc2112]

Nope. It's because of economic indices, particularly GDP per capita. I read Lynn's latest survey from last year, the introduction focuses mainly on GDP per capita.

Higher per capita income = better schools (there are few exceptions that do not fit). Jewish ethnic group in Europe/USA for example...

[Faklon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/774090666326396928/JP4HOE41_400x400.jpg

[luc2112]

Self-haters rank at the bottom.

Weren't you curious to see what data they used? It's all bullshit.

Here are the IQ numbers from largest IQ study in Romania with 12k participants:

https://i.postimg.cc/DwZFqNzn/IQ-Romania.png

By the way, the dudes who compiled the figures from the OP quote this study but didn't include the figures in their calculations - instead they've put in some crappy numbers from the 70s.

I smell rat here.

This study is for the capital or good Romanian schools (Whites from private schools here in Brazil the average IQ > 100)

[ixulescu]

What's the name of the study/researcher? I'll check if it it's sourced here.

I checked it myself. The figures I posted above are not included, but the study is quoted.

This is the Romanian study:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289620300088


The OP study authors look like charlatans to me. It's impossible to meaningfully adjust the figures from such dissimilar studies to make them comparable. The authors seem to have an axe to grind.

[ixulescu]

This study is for the capital or good Romanian schools (Whites from private schools here in Brazil the average IQ > 100)

Where did you come up with that? Did you read the study?

[Zeno]

Self-haters rank at the bottom.

Weren't you curious to see what data they used? It's all bullshit.

Here are the IQ numbers from largest IQ study in Romania with 12k participants:

https://i.postimg.cc/DwZFqNzn/IQ-Romania.png

By the way, the dudes who compiled the figures from the OP quote this study but didn't include the figures in their calculations - instead they've put in some crappy numbers from the 70s.

I smell rat here.

Becker sourced Lynn, it's obvious he would be biased in his findings. If Becker used only his sources, the numbers in the OP post would never come up.

Btw, really comprehensive research. With such a huge sample showing averages from 100-105 it's undoubted that Romanians at least have a way higher IQ than Lynn shows.

[Supercomputer]

Yeah, but here's the point: when Greece was economically prosperous before 2009, he always put it at 99-101 points. But in 2012 onwards, he always puts us at 92. Why? Because he directly correlates it to the trajectory of our GDP per capita.

He had Greece at 92 already in his 2002 book. Even if he had changed it in his 2012 book it wouldn't be proof he used economy to calculate IQ.

[Zeno]

He had Greece at 92 already in his 2002 book. Even if he had changed it in his 2012 book it wouldn't be proof he used economy to calculate IQ.

Ummm, no.

I've seen a board once posted on 4chan showing the change from 1996 to 2012. Greece until 2006 was at 99.

[Supercomputer]

I checked it myself. The figures I posted above are not included, but the study is quoted.

This is the Romanian study:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289620300088


The OP study authors look like charlatans to me. It's impossible to meaningfully adjust the figures from such dissimilar studies to make them comparable. The authors seem to have an axe to grind.

This is from 2020 so it's not included in the Becker database. You should email him the study.

[Zeno]

Again, why are arguing about Lynn. He's a charlatan. Literally one. I've seen his methodology from his studies about Portugal. He just fused the results of a study done in children and one in adults. Children got a score of 88 and adults of 103. He just added them up, divided the total by 2 and got his average.

Like, bro, seriously?

He literally did: 103+88 = 191/2 = 95,5.

As if it's only this calculation he must do..

[Jana]

You still didn't answer my quastion Supercomputer...

[ixulescu]

This is from 2020 so it's not included in the Becker database. You should email him the study.

There are older publications from this study, it has been on-going for more than a decade.

Becker is aware of it, but he chose not to include it, despite it being the largest, most scholarly such study done in Romania. Instead he puts an obviously mis-administered test in which adults score 10 points less than children. Give me a break. He picks whatever he likes.

[Zeno]

There are older publications from this study, it has been on-going for more than a decade. Becker is aware of it.

Supercomputer is acting as if Lynn is muh master on IQ.

He's a charlatan. Most people in his field of study say so.

[Supercomputer]

Ummm, no.

I've seen a board once posted on 4chan showing the change from 1996 to 2012. Greece until 2006 was at 99.

It's 92. The number is sourced in the Becker database under L&V02 in the FAV tab. Check the book.

[Supercomputer]

Supercomputer is acting as if Lynn is muh master on IQ.

He's a charlatan. Most people in his field of study say so.

Funny this always only comes from people from ethnic groups that show lower IQ. It reminds me of pigmentation and people who accuse Coon of being a fraud.

[Supercomputer]

Again, why are arguing about Lynn. He's a charlatan. Literally one. I've seen his methodology from his studies about Portugal. He just fused the results of a study done in children and one in adults. Children got a score of 88 and adults of 103. He just added them up, divided the total by 2 and got his average.

Like, bro, seriously?

He literally did: 103+88 = 191/2 = 95,5.

As if it's only this calculation he must do..

IQ is always age synchronized. The first study is 103 age synchronized and the second 88. Hence the final number.

[Zeno]

Funny this always only comes from people from ethnic groups that show lower IQ. It reminds me of pigmentation and people who accuse Coon of being a fraud.

Yeah, you know my IQ isn't below 100 points if measured. But let's be real, Lynn is a charlatan. Everyone here says it. You indirectly call me a "buffoon" because I dispute his findings. I'm not the only one who has disputed them.

Everyone did.

Ixulescu literally cited you a study from Romania, covering 12,000 individuals in sample size. And you try to evade it by saying it's a "new" survey, while it's not. It's older than 2019, when the data in your OP post were published. I mean the table Ixulescu posted has data stretching back to the early 2000s! You still denounce it.

Deal with it, Lynn is a charlatan.

We all know you hate southern Europeans and bootlick northern Europeans instead.

Give it up.

[ixulescu]

Funny this always only comes from people from ethnic groups that show lower IQ.

but do they really? how can I trust Becker when he cherry picks data?

[Zeno]

Funny this always only comes from people from ethnic groups that show lower IQ. It reminds me of pigmentation and people who accuse Coon of being a fraud.

Yeah, you know my IQ isn't below 100 points if measured. But let's be real, Lynn is a charlatan. Everyone here says it. You indirectly call me a "buffoon" because I dispute his findings. I'm not the only one who has disputed them.

Everyone did.

Ixulescu literally cited you a study from Romania, covering 12,000 individuals in sample size. And you try to evade it by saying it's a "new" survey, while it's not. It's older than 2019, when the data in your OP post were published. I mean the table Ixulescu posted has data stretching back to the early 2000s! You still denounce it. They contradict the 86 points figure for Romania and instead give a score of 101-105. And the Romanian study is much more trustworthy as it covers tens of thousands of people and is solely based on IQ testing.

Deal with it, Lynn is a charlatan.

We all know you hate southern Europeans and bootlick northern Europeans instead.

Give it up.

[Zeno]

IQ is always age synchronized. The first study is 103 age synchronized and the second 88. Hence the final number.

No, he literally combined the average of the two studies.

It's not "aGe-sYnCHrOniSeD". He literally just added them up and divided the total by two.

[Jana]

So, no answer?
I'm still waiting for explanation how Croatian IQ was 103 in 1980s and somehow menaged to sink to 93 in almost 40 years when it should be only higher today (look up Flynn effect which rises IQ by 3 points for each decade in the west).

Very fishy.

[Zeno]

So, no answer?
I'm still waiting for explanation how Croatian IQ was 103 in 180s and somehow menaged to sink to 93 in almost 40 years when it should be only higher today (look up Flynn effect which rises IQ rises by 3 point each decade in the west).

Very fishy.

As I said, Lynn is a charlatan.

[Jana]

As I said, Lynn is a charlatan.

I hope OP didn't use that notorious 1952 study of Croatian malnourished post WW2 children :laugh:

Lynn did.

[Zeno]

I hope OP didn't use that notorious 1952 study of Croatian malnourished post WW2 children :laugh:

Lynn did.

Don't know, but for my country he used a study in which even FIVE YEAR OLDS WERE INCLUDED. While most other countries begin at the age of 9-10.

[Jana]

Don't know, but for my country he used a study in which even FIVE YEAR OLDS WERE INCLUDED. While most other countries begin at the age of 9-10.

He used children from school for mentally retarded/learning disabilities to calculate some IQ scores in SubSaharan Africa, if I remember correctly.

[Supercomputer]

Yeah, you know my IQ isn't below 100 points if measured. But let's be real, Lynn is a charlatan. Everyone here says it. You indirectly call me a "buffoon" because I dispute his findings. I'm not the only one who has disputed them.

Everyone did.

Ixulescu literally cited you a study from Romania, covering 12,000 individuals in sample size. And you try to evade it by saying it's a "new" survey, while it's not. It's older than 2019, when the data in your OP post were published. I mean the table Ixulescu posted has data stretching back to the early 2000s! You still denounce it.

Deal with it, Lynn is a charlatan.

We all know you hate southern Europeans and bootlick northern Europeans instead.

Give it up.

I didn't denounce it, i told you to email him. Perhaps it's a synchronization issue. Who knows. I am just hesitant to immediately label Lynn and becker charlatans.

[Supercomputer]

No, he literally combined the average of the two studies.

It's not "aGe-sYnCHrOniSeD". He literally just added them up and divided the total by two.

You didn't understand my point. Think about it again.

[Supercomputer]

Don't know, but for my country he used a study in which even FIVE YEAR OLDS WERE INCLUDED. While most other countries begin at the age of 9-10.

Please stop this. IQ is always age synchronized. Nobody is that stupid to ignore age when calculating IQ and certainly not IQ researchers. Why do I have to repeat myself?

[Dunai]

Let's stay strictly to scientific consensus, and this recent statement by the European Human Behaviour and Evolution Association makes it very clear that the studies of Lynn and Vanhanen have no foundation in any true empirical study, based on true science:

"EHBEA Statement on National IQ Datasets: Issued July 2020. Evolutionary behavioural sciences aim to understand human behaviour in a whole-species context. For that reason, cross-cultural work is of particular importance in our field. However, cross-cultural analysis must be based on reliable data. Multiple papers published in evolutionary journals have used‘national IQ’data, developed by Richard Lynn,and datasets derived from this work. Although these datasets are treated in these publications as neutral and objective indicators of variation in intelligence across countries and regions, the datasets fall a long way short of the expected scientific standard of rigour, in terms of both data curation and measure validity, as discussed below.Any conclusions drawn from analyses which use these data are therefore unsound, and no reliable evolutionary work should be using these data.There has been extensive documentation of the very poor quality of this dataset. Notably, the empirical samples from which ‘national IQ’ was estimated are wholly inadequate for a large number of countries. Samples are often far too small to reliably generalise to the national population, and are frequently highly unrepresentative of the national population; in many cases ‘national IQ’ is estimated entirely from samples of children, and in other cases, samples were not even resident in the country in question. Furthermore, a large number of countries are not represented at all and are ascribed scores based on neighboring countries. "

https://ehbea2020.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/EHBEA_IQ_statement.pdf

[Ljubic]

If genetics were such a big factor, ex-yugoslavia and ukraine would be much closer to their neighbours because they arent too different from eachother.

[luc2112]

Where did you come up with that? Did you read the study?

I don't need to read to know that IQ> 100 is a high average for the whole country, for part of the population ... OK

[ixulescu]

I don't need to read to know that IQ> 100 is a high average for the whole country, for part of the population ... OK

Obviously you didn't read it. This is an academic study where careful stratified sampling is used to match the overall population, not some incompetent compilation of IQ test scores. Yes, samples are from the entire country.

[luc2112]

He used children from school for mentally retarded/learning disabilities to calculate some IQ scores in SubSaharan Africa, if I remember correctly.

It is unlikely to have taken people with disabilities and malnourished were measured. Schools in Africa are modest and the average is in fact = 70

R. Lynn even tested SSA that were raised by white parents and IQ = 90 for them.

[luc2112]

Obviously you didn't read it. This is an academic study where careful stratified sampling is used to match the overall population, not some incompetent compilation of IQ test scores. Yes, samples are from the entire country.

In this case, schools lacking classrooms and teachers were not included. You must understand the economic situation in Romania.

[ixulescu]

In this case, schools lacking classrooms and teachers were not included. You must understand the economic situation in Romania.

schools lacking classrooms? what are you talking about? you really know nothing about Romania.

[Jana]

It is unlikely to have taken people with disabilities and malnourished were measured. Schools in Africa are modest and the average is in fact = 70

R. Lynn even tested SSA that were raised by white parents and IQ = 90 for them.

It is not unlikely, it's a fact.

[luc2112]

schools lacking classrooms? what are you talking about? you really know nothing about Romania.

I know enough to know that Romania is below Norway that Average IQ = 99

[ixulescu]

I know enough to know that Romania is below Norway that Average IQ = 99

close scores are hard to compare, considering the diversity of test types, socioeconomic groups, age cohorts etc. I would not try to extrapolate anything from a small difference.

[Damião de Góis]

I've explained it in the original post. Download the NIQ-DATASET-V1.3.3, open the XLS file and click on the FAV tab. The first three columns are IQ scores from unweighted to weighted. To find the source click the REC tab, look for Portugal and scroll all the way right to the reference tab. Portugal's IQ is based from average of 3 studies. One from 1981, one from 2006 and one from 2016.

If you want additional info read the manual in the ZIP file.

Thanks, finally found them.

So the 1981 study from Buj gives 102, which is kind of similar to the average of the 2011 study i posted (which isn't included on these averages)

https://i.imgur.com/lCvv4GA.jpg

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Average-IQ-values-in-various-European-countries-Buj/5872cc6c0570a4dab3b026e161f9d6410dc7c1f2

I found the second one from 2016 but it doesn't mention IQ, it mentions a 44 score on something which i guess was later converted into IQ. Couldn't find the 2006 one, but in theory with a score of 102 resulting in an average of 90, the other two could have a score of 84 each. It's strange... maybe there was negroid influence in 2016 and 2006 like Gutterfuck was suggesting.

[Zeno]

Thanks, finally found them.

So the 1981 study from Buj gives 102, which is kind of similar to the average of the 2011 study i posted (which isn't included on these averages)

https://i.imgur.com/lCvv4GA.jpg

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Average-IQ-values-in-various-European-countries-Buj/5872cc6c0570a4dab3b026e161f9d6410dc7c1f2

I found the second one from 2016 but it doesn't mention IQ, it mentions a 44 score on something which i guess was later converted into IQ. Couldn't find the 2006 one, but in theory with a score of 102 resulting in an average of 90, the other two could have a score of 84 each. It's strange... maybe there was negroid influence in 2016 and 2006 like Gutterfuck was suggesting.

So, with the standard error of the mean, Portugal is at 103.8. And Greece is at 101,3. Yet, how did we both go to 85-90 according to Lynn in such a short period of time and especially with the Flynn effect with which our IQ is supposed to increase?

Also, the sample size seems a bit too low for Portugal and Greece.

Plus, Portugal being at 103 surpasses many northern European countries.

[Götterfunke]

Thanks, finally found them.

So the 1981 study from Buj gives 102, which is kind of similar to the average of the 2011 study i posted (which isn't included on these averages)

https://i.imgur.com/lCvv4GA.jpg

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Average-IQ-values-in-various-European-countries-Buj/5872cc6c0570a4dab3b026e161f9d6410dc7c1f2

I found the second one from 2016 but it doesn't mention IQ, it mentions a 44 score on something which i guess was later converted into IQ. Couldn't find the 2006 one, but in theory with a score of 102 resulting in an average of 90, the other two could have a score of 84 each. It's strange... maybe there was negroid influence in 2016 and 2006 like Gutterfuck was suggesting.

One has to mention that city people usually have a higher IQ than those of small towns. 109.3 is not the average German IQ, not even for natives, although in big cities with lots of university students such as Hamburg, it might not be far off. The average university student in Germany has an IQ of about 115, and the biggest universities are in the big cities, not in the countryside, so that might account for it.

As mentioned previously, the IQ of native Germans is probably closer to 104 or 105. 109.3 is flatteringly high and probably untrue.

The same, of course, goes for most other countries listed in that study, albeit not for all, as some countries have a very atypical population distribution (for example Iceland, one third of all Icelanders live in the capital of Reykjavík) and there are also varying degrees of "brain drain" that have to be accounted for. For most countries however, one has to deduct at least 4 IQ points to get a result closer to reality.

[luc2112]

One has to mention that city people usually have a higher IQ than those of small towns. 109.3 is not the average German IQ, not even for natives, although in big cities with lots of university students such as Hamburg, it might not be far off. The average university student in Germany has an IQ of about 115, and the biggest universities are in the big cities, not in the countryside, so that might account for it.

As mentioned previously, the IQ of native Germans is probably closer to 104 or 105. 109.3 is flatteringly high and probably untrue.

The same, of course, goes for all other countries listed in that study. One has to deduct at least 4 IQ points to get a result closer to reality.

Good understanding

[Supercomputer]

Thanks, finally found them.

So the 1981 study from Buj gives 102, which is kind of similar to the average of the 2011 study i posted (which isn't included on these averages)

https://i.imgur.com/lCvv4GA.jpg

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Average-IQ-values-in-various-European-countries-Buj/5872cc6c0570a4dab3b026e161f9d6410dc7c1f2

I found the second one from 2016 but it doesn't mention IQ, it mentions a 44 score on something which i guess was later converted into IQ. Couldn't find the 2006 one, but in theory with a score of 102 resulting in an average of 90, the other two could have a score of 84 each. It's strange... maybe there was negroid influence in 2016 and 2006 like Gutterfuck was suggesting.

Well I hope you are all right and the IQ of most European countries really is around 100 instead of what viewonIQ.org currently shows. IF you notice my original post was kind of a depressing tone of disappointment. I want to see Europe having a high IQ. I just see no reason why Becker and Lynn would deliberately lie and depress IQ scores of Europe. If anything Lynn is associated with White nationalists so he
would more of an opposite incentive.

[Supercomputer]

Thanks, finally found them.

So the 1981 study from Buj gives 102, which is kind of similar to the average of the 2011 study i posted (which isn't included on these averages)

https://i.imgur.com/lCvv4GA.jpg

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Average-IQ-values-in-various-European-countries-Buj/5872cc6c0570a4dab3b026e161f9d6410dc7c1f2

I found the second one from 2016 but it doesn't mention IQ, it mentions a 44 score on something which i guess was later converted into IQ. Couldn't find the 2006 one, but in theory with a score of 102 resulting in an average of 90, the other two could have a score of 84 each. It's strange... maybe there was negroid influence in 2016 and 2006 like Gutterfuck was suggesting.

I hope this one from Buj is closer to reality, the problem is I just don't see any reason why Becker and Lynn would decrease the IQ of so many countries if they know about this Buj study and include it in the source. Childish personal grudges against certain countries do not sound like plausible explanations to me.

Perhaps it's something about synchronizing the IQ of studies. IQ of 100 does not actually mean any level of intelligence (like for example 100cm means a distance of one meter and is always consistently so) its just average for a given population that you are testing. The Lynn effect was discovered this way. What used to be 100 (average for a tested population) in the past is more than 100 today.

[pulstar]

I hope this one from Buj is closer to reality, the problem is I just don't see any reason why Becker and Lynn would decrease the IQ of so many countries if they know about this Buj study and include it in the source. Childish personal grudges against certain countries do not sound like plausible explanations to me.

Perhaps it's something about synchronizing the IQ of studies. IQ of 100 does not actually mean any level of intelligence (like for example 100cm means a distance of one meter and is always consistently so) its just average for a given population that you are testing. The Lynn effect was discovered this way. What used to be 100 (average for a tested population) in the past is more than 100 today.

No, their whole research seems invalid. What tests did they used? Whats the standard deviation they estimated upon? Without it it has not statistical meaning (or at least I couldn't find that data). The results Damião de Góis provided are measured with Cattells test, which uses standard deviation 24, but there are also other tests, like Wechsler and Stanford-Binet. Having IQ 108 on Wechsler is for example better than 109 on Cattells test. That's why I said Lynns research seems like guessometry.

[Supercomputer]

No, their whole research seems invalid. What tests did they used? Whats the standard deviation they estimated upon? Without it it has not statistical meaning (or at least I couldn't find that data). The results Damião de Góis provided are measured with Cattells test, which uses standard deviation 24, but there are also other tests, like Wechsler and Stanford-Binet. Having IQ 108 on Wechsler is for example better than 109 on Cattells test. That's why I said Lynns research seems like guessometry.

It's certainly guessometry to a certain extent. For example they used neighboring countries to assume the IQ of countries they don't have data for. IQ studies are also quite rare and usually come just from one city of the country and don't have very large sample sizes. That is why perhaps SAS (student assessment studies) are a better indicator. All students froma a country are tested and the sample size is gigantic. However on the other SAS to a large extent depends on the education system quality of a country and to what extent there is a culture of learning. However to be fair, IQ also arguably does.

[pulstar]

It's certainly guessometry to a certain extent. For example they used neighboring countries to assume the IQ of countries they don't have data for. IQ studies are also quite rare and usually come just from one city of the country and don't have very large sample sizes. That is why perhaps SAS (student assessment studies) are a better indicator. All students froma a country are tested and the sample size is gigantic. However on the other SAS to a large extent depends on the education system quality of a country and to what extent there is a culture of learning. However to be fair, IQ also arguably does.

I discussed recently this in another thread with Teutone, where I pointed out what most recent finding suggest. Great amount of intelligence is about proper brain development, so yes, education system matters, but its not everything. There are 3 or 4 other areas that add to the final scores. Also, very large sample size isn't so important if the sample is truly randomly selected.

[Jana]

So, with the standard error of the mean, Portugal is at 103.8. And Greece is at 101,3. Yet, how did we both go to 85-90 according to Lynn in such a short period of time and especially with the Flynn effect with which our IQ is supposed to increase?

Also, the sample size seems a bit too low for Portugal and Greece.

Plus, Portugal being at 103 surpasses many northern European countries.

In that study Croats from Zagreb have over 105 IQ, but look at here we are among dumbest in Europe.
What a loads of crap lol.

[pulstar]

In that study Croats from Zagreb have over 105 IQ, but look at here we are among dumbest in Europe.
What a loads of crap lol.

IQ is only your potential. What you get in the reality that you have is how much you use of your potential (which surely isn't 100%). Its all related to Balkan culture.

[Zeno]

Well I hope you are all right and the IQ of most European countries really is around 100 instead of what viewonIQ.org currently shows. IF you notice my original post was kind of a depressing tone of disappointment. I want to see Europe having a high IQ. I just see no reason why Becker and Lynn would deliberately lie and depress IQ scores of Europe. If anything Lynn is associated with White nationalists so he
would more of an opposite incentive.

Buj's survey is much more accurate. Only adults are tested with the IQ test being the only measure. As for Lynn, he's only associated with white nationalists because he proves there are differences between races in IQ also.

But only because he's the only one known. Buj and many, many other psychologists who do these tests are not known at all.

[Ford]

Well I hope you are all right and the IQ of most European countries really is around 100 instead of what viewonIQ.org currently shows. IF you notice my original post was kind of a depressing tone of disappointment. I want to see Europe having a high IQ. I just see no reason why Becker and Lynn would deliberately lie and depress IQ scores of Europe. If anything Lynn is associated with White nationalists so he
would more of an opposite incentive.

But it wouldn't make sense if Europe scored high on nation wide scales. IQ is designed so that the mean will be 100, so it's not really a fixed value on a relative scale.

[Zeno]

In that study Croats from Zagreb have over 105 IQ, but look at here we are among dumbest in Europe.
What a loads of crap lol.

With the standard error of the mean, you reach 107.2, while Greeks from Athens reach 101,3. But I think there's a discrepancy also in here, as more people in Zagreb are tested than people in Athens are. And Athens is a much bigger city than Zagreb, so having 220 people in Athens tested in comparison to the 550 tested in Zagreb is kind of a discrepancy. But overall, it's a good study, and accurate enough.

[Zeno]

Dp.

[Ford]

IQ is only your potential. What you get in the reality that you have is how much you use of your potential (which surely isn't 100%). Its all related to Balkan culture.

It's barely even potential as you can raise your IQ by simply practicing logical problems. Not even a fixed value on an indiviual level and practically useless.

[Jana]

IQ is only your potential. What you get in the reality that you have is how much you use of your potential (which surely isn't 100%). Its all related to Balkan culture.

Nope, he just has no explanation why average is much lower than any more recent study.
Other words - toilet paper quality.

[pulstar]

It's barely even potential as you can raise your IQ by simply practicing logical problems. Not even a fixed value on an indiviual level and practically useless.

I don't know that. Maybe. Bottom line your brain decel at age 30 and neural activity within your cortex slowly declines afterwards.


Nope, he just has no explanation why average is much lower than any more recent study.
Other words - toilet paper quality.

As I said, I don't consider Lynn's study relevant, if that's what you refer to. I was talking about the older study which provided sample size.

[pulstar]

It's barely even potential as you can raise your IQ by simply practicing logical problems. Not even a fixed value on an indiviual level and practically useless.

I don't know that. Maybe. Bottom line your brain decel at age 30 and neural activity within your cortex slowly declines afterwards.


Nope, he just has no explanation why average is much lower than any more recent study.
Other words - toilet paper quality.

As I said, I don't consider Lynn's study relevant, if that's what you refer to. I was talking about the older study which provided sample size.

[Supercomputer]

In that study Croats from Zagreb have over 105 IQ, but look at here we are among dumbest in Europe.
What a loads of crap lol.

Even here you're far from the dumbest. 94 is exactly the average for whole Europe.

[Jana]

Even here you're far from the dumbest. 94 is exactly the average for whole Europe.

I don't care being better than Balkans and eastern Europe. Sorry. It's like saying you're best student in class with special ad children.
Croatian IQ is 97 98 average according to latest consensus.

It can be as low as OP only if reference point was 1952 study of post WW2 malnourished children who scored 90.

[The Blade]

114 here by a legal test. Not a genius (and I don't wanna be one) but still smart enough.
95 is pretty average European - I don't see why this should be a shame.
I think certain circles are manipulating Europeans for bad nowadays though.

[luc2112]

It's certainly guessometry to a certain extent. For example they used neighboring countries to assume the IQ of countries they don't have data for. IQ studies are also quite rare and usually come just from one city of the country and don't have very large sample sizes. That is why perhaps SAS (student assessment studies) are a better indicator. All students froma a country are tested and the sample size is gigantic. However on the other SAS to a large extent depends on the education system quality of a country and to what extent there is a culture of learning. However to be fair, IQ also arguably does.

IQ depends on family upbringing (pre-childhood IQ), environment. It is almost useless to improve the education system without the first two factors.

[InfamousAngel99]

Who cares about the average IQ of a country's citizens? If you are not in a career that focuses on such data, I would just ignore it.

I took an IQ test when I was in elementary school so I could apply for the gifted program. I have an IQ of 129. The only thing it was good for was to ensure I could get into the gifted program and take free college courses in high school. Beyond that, I never cared about my IQ score.

[Zeno]

Who cares about the average IQ of a country's citizens? If you are not in a career that focuses on such data, I would just ignore it.

I took an IQ test when I was in elementary school so I could apply for the gifted program. I have an IQ of 129. The only thing it was good for was to ensure I could get into the gifted program and take free college courses in high school. Beyond that, I never cared about my IQ score.

That's absolutely remarkable. You should give importance to it.

It's absolutely vital for your career. Because employers take your intelligence level seriously, both in a direct and indirect way.

[InfamousAngel99]

That's absolutely remarkable. You should give importance to it.

It's absolutely vital for your career. Because employers take your intelligence level seriously, both in a direct and indirect way.

That's very true, and thank you.

In the end, I think IQ is important, but so is EQ, which a lot of people fail to mention. Having a low EQ can impact your success in a work environment as well.
My mom, who has a high EQ and a slightly above-average IQ, has worked with many CEOs throughout her career, and she's noticed they have high IQs but very low EQs.

[luc2112]

That's very true, and thank you.

In the end, I think IQ is important, but so is EQ, which a lot of people fail to mention. Having a low EQ can impact your success in a work environment as well.
My mom, who has a high EQ and a slightly above-average IQ, has worked with many CEOs throughout her career, and she's noticed they have high IQs but very low EQs.

Europeans score low on EQ mainly women

[InfamousAngel99]

Europeans score low on EQ mainly women

I don't really care tbh, lmao.

[pulstar]

That's very true, and thank you.

In the end, I think IQ is important, but so is EQ, which a lot of people fail to mention. Having a low EQ can impact your success in a work environment as well.
My mom, who has a high EQ and a slightly above-average IQ, has worked with many CEOs throughout her career, and she's noticed they have high IQs but very low EQs.

I think its because CEO's need to make difficult decisions, that often require pure logic and a lot of "what if" situations, so they can't allow emotions to influence their decision making process. But same can be said for some other professions.

[luc2112]

I don't really care tbh, lmao.

You should say that to some of this topic. This looked like a IQ game scoreboard.


EQ ???

[InfamousAngel99]

You should say that to some of this topic. This looked like a IQ game scoreboard.


EQ ???

EQ focuses on emotional intelligence. Basically, if you suck at reading people's body language and facial expressions, you have little to no control of your own emotions, or you don't keep relationships very easily, you probably have low emotional intelligence.

[luc2112]

I think its because CEO's need to make difficult decisions, that often require pure logic and a lot of "what if" situations, so they can't allow emotions to influence their decision making process. But same can be said for some other professions.

And probably the boss of that department is the one with the highest EQ.

[luc2112]

EQ focuses on emotional intelligence. Basically, if you suck at reading people's body language and facial expressions, you have little to no control of your own emotions, or you don't keep relationships very easily, you probably have low emotional intelligence.

A child in an adult body also.

[pulstar]

And probably the boss of that department is the one with the highest EQ.

Yes, I suppose team leaders, and some managerial positions require basically HR knowledge to be successful. That's why people with such skills are so hard to find, but so are good CEOs.

[luc2112]

That's very true, and thank you.

In the end, I think IQ is important, but so is EQ, which a lot of people fail to mention. Having a low EQ can impact your success in a work environment as well.
My mom, who has a high EQ and a slightly above-average IQ, has worked with many CEOs throughout her career, and she's noticed they have high IQs but very low EQs.

It doesn't seem to apply to you. It speaks well to someone who is only 20 years old.

[Mingle]

That's very true, and thank you.

In the end, I think IQ is important, but so is EQ, which a lot of people fail to mention. Having a low EQ can impact your success in a work environment as well.
My mom, who has a high EQ and a slightly above-average IQ, has worked with many CEOs throughout her career, and she's noticed they have high IQs but very low EQs.

https://www.inc.com/quora/its-time-to-stop-talking-about-eq-because-it-doesnt-actually-exist.html

[Korovic]

Lol 😂

[Übermensch]

I think it's true, most of people i know have very basic knwoldge of maths and a very limited vocabulary,very low logical skills and low cultural level,i know very few people with an iq higher than 120 and a lot with an iq lower than 90.
East asian are surely more intelligent than europeans,propably because of their higher neanderthal admixture and brachicephalic brain case.

[Gondor]

It's like these people don't trust their data set and they have to have a weighted result, the weight is their racial bias. Why some countries will have better PISA/Timms and pirls than their IQ, it's ruins their own flawed theory... This people are idiots

[Komintasavalta]

I've done a rough calculation and from these numbers the average IQ of Europe is 94,6.

You get a bit higher scores if you calculate a weighted average by population size. (But then for example the score of East Asia will mostly be based on China, and the score of non-European anglophone white countries will mostly be based on the United States.)

This is based on version 1.3.3 of the NIQ spreadsheet (https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9):


MeasureIs weighted by population sizeIQRegion
QNWunweighted104.0East Asia
QNWunweighted94.5Europe
QNWunweighted98.2Non-European anglophone white
SASunweighted101.1East Asia
SASunweighted96.0Europe
SASunweighted99.2Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SASunweighted102.2East Asia
QNW+SASunweighted95.0Europe
QNW+SASunweighted98.7Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SAS+GEOunweighted102.4East Asia
QNW+SAS+GEOunweighted95.0Europe
QNW+SAS+GEOunweighted98.7Non-European anglophone white
QNWweighted104.7East Asia
QNWweighted94.7Europe
QNWweighted96.3Non-European anglophone white
SASweighted103.5East Asia
SASweighted97.4Europe
SASweighted99.2Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SASweighted104.1East Asia
QNW+SASweighted96.0Europe
QNW+SASweighted97.8Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SAS+GEOweighted104.1East Asia
QNW+SAS+GEOweighted96.0Europe
QNW+SAS+GEOweighted97.8Non-European anglophone white


In the table above, East Asians have a fairly low unweighted SAS score, because the SAS score of Mongolia is very low (82.69).


RegionAlpha-3CountryQNWSASQNW+SASQNW+SAS+GEOPopulation
EuropeALBAlbania81.7581.7581.753047987
EuropeANDAndorra95.2976965
EuropeAUTAustria98.3798.7798.5798.578711770
EuropeBLRBelarus101.60101.60101.609570376
EuropeBELBelgium97.3097.9297.6197.6111409077
EuropeBIHBosnia and Herzegovina90.7186.3588.5388.533861912
EuropeBGRBulgaria87.1094.8890.9990.997144653
EuropeHRVCroatia93.7297.5895.6595.654313707
EuropeCZECzechia90.6299.2194.9294.9210644842
EuropeDNKDenmark96.8498.9897.9197.915593785
EuropeESTEstonia99.33102.86101.09101.091258545
EuropeFINFinland98.00103.09100.55100.555498211
EuropeFRAFrance97.4896.3596.9196.9166836154
EuropeDEUGermany101.6699.16100.41100.4180722792
EuropeGRCGreece86.3895.0990.7490.7410773253
EuropeHUNHungary99.2299.2899.2599.259874784
EuropeISLIceland100.5096.0298.2698.26335878
EuropeIRLIreland90.01100.3195.1695.164952473
EuropeITAItaly91.5196.8094.1694.1662007540
EuropeLVALatvia91.1498.4394.7994.791944643
EuropeLIELiechtenstein101.07101.07101.0738244
EuropeLTULithuania94.7397.2495.9995.992854235
EuropeLUXLuxembourg99.8799.8799.87594130
EuropeMKDMacedonia81.9181.9181.912103721
EuropeMLTMalta93.7188.8791.2991.29415196
EuropeMDAMoldova89.9889.9889.983510485
EuropeMNEMontenegro85.7885.7885.78642550
EuropeNLDNetherlands100.32101.30100.81100.81170169 67
EuropeNORNorway99.6694.7697.2197.215265158
EuropePOLPoland94.7498.0996.4296.4238476269
EuropePRTPortugal89.6596.0492.8492.8410839514
EuropeROURomania83.1990.6586.9286.9221529967
EuropeRUSRussia93.1899.6396.4096.40142257519
EuropeSRBSerbia87.8991.3889.6489.647111024
EuropeSVKSlovakia95.3297.3296.3296.325445829
EuropeSVNSlovenia98.7498.5998.6698.661972126
EuropeESPSpain92.2695.4793.8793.8748958159
EuropeSWESweden94.9299.0396.9896.989960487
EuropeCHESwitzerland97.27101.2299.2599.258236303
EuropeUKRUkraine88.6191.5490.0790.0744033874
EuropeGBRUnited Kingdom98.44100.0099.2299.2264769452
East AsiaCHNChina104.66103.24103.95103.951373541278
East AsiaHKGHong Kong106.08104.67105.38105.387167403
East AsiaJPNJapan107.31105.55106.43106.43126702133
East AsiaPRKKorea, North103.6425248140
East AsiaKORKorea, South97.59107.33102.46102.4650924172
East AsiaMACMacau99.8299.8299.82601969
East AsiaMNGMongolia99.3682.6991.0391.033031330
East AsiaTWNTaiwan108.71104.26106.49106.4923508428
Non-European anglophone whiteAUSAustralia99.5498.9699.2599.2522992654
Non-European anglophone whiteCANCanada97.86100.9199.3899.3835362905
Non-European anglophone whiteNZLNew Zealand99.5898.1398.8598.854474549
Non-European anglophone whiteUSAUnited States95.9199.0097.4697.46326625791


QNW means a score based on actual IQ studies weighted by sample size and quality of data, and SAS means a score based on scholastic assessment studies like PISA and TIMSS. For countries like North Korea and Andorra with no IQ or scholastic assessment data, the GEO score is calculated by averaging the scores of neighboring or similar countries.

[catgeorge]

Pseudo redneck science.
Schools and universities dont do IQ tests.

[Linebacker]

Bulgarian IQ is dropping fast. Us and the Greeks always were stable leaders in this part of the world and now we are basically down to Serb level which is a disgrace.

I blame chalga culture and Slavi Trifonov.

[luc2112]

It depends on the economy, is the country industrial? (highest IQ average) Or is the economy based on tourism, agriculture and oil or another resource?

First World (98 - 105).
Semi - First World (90 - 95). Portugal, Spain, Greece, some from Eastern Europe (Bulgaria and Poland for example).
Second world (85- 90). Latam, Eastern Europe, Middle East and Southeast Asia.
Third World (80 - 85). < 80 for sub-saharan Africa.

[Supercomputer]

You get a bit higher scores if you calculate a weighted average by population size. (But then for example the score of East Asia will mostly be based on China, and the score of non-European anglophone white countries will mostly be based on the United States.)

This is based on version 1.3.3 of the NIQ spreadsheet (https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9):


MeasureIs weighted by population sizeIQRegion
QNWunweighted104.0East Asia
QNWunweighted94.5Europe
QNWunweighted98.2Non-European anglophone white
SASunweighted101.1East Asia
SASunweighted96.0Europe
SASunweighted99.2Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SASunweighted102.2East Asia
QNW+SASunweighted95.0Europe
QNW+SASunweighted98.7Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SAS+GEOunweighted102.4East Asia
QNW+SAS+GEOunweighted95.0Europe
QNW+SAS+GEOunweighted98.7Non-European anglophone white
QNWweighted104.7East Asia
QNWweighted94.7Europe
QNWweighted96.3Non-European anglophone white
SASweighted103.5East Asia
SASweighted97.4Europe
SASweighted99.2Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SASweighted104.1East Asia
QNW+SASweighted96.0Europe
QNW+SASweighted97.8Non-European anglophone white
QNW+SAS+GEOweighted104.1East Asia
QNW+SAS+GEOweighted96.0Europe
QNW+SAS+GEOweighted97.8Non-European anglophone white


In the table above, East Asians have a fairly low unweighted SAS score, because the SAS score of Mongolia is very low (82.69).


RegionAlpha-3CountryQNWSASQNW+SASQNW+SAS+GEOPopulation
EuropeALBAlbania81.7581.7581.753047987
EuropeANDAndorra95.2976965
EuropeAUTAustria98.3798.7798.5798.578711770
EuropeBLRBelarus101.60101.60101.609570376
EuropeBELBelgium97.3097.9297.6197.6111409077
EuropeBIHBosnia and Herzegovina90.7186.3588.5388.533861912
EuropeBGRBulgaria87.1094.8890.9990.997144653
EuropeHRVCroatia93.7297.5895.6595.654313707
EuropeCZECzechia90.6299.2194.9294.9210644842
EuropeDNKDenmark96.8498.9897.9197.915593785
EuropeESTEstonia99.33102.86101.09101.091258545
EuropeFINFinland98.00103.09100.55100.555498211
EuropeFRAFrance97.4896.3596.9196.9166836154
EuropeDEUGermany101.6699.16100.41100.4180722792
EuropeGRCGreece86.3895.0990.7490.7410773253
EuropeHUNHungary99.2299.2899.2599.259874784
EuropeISLIceland100.5096.0298.2698.26335878
EuropeIRLIreland90.01100.3195.1695.164952473
EuropeITAItaly91.5196.8094.1694.1662007540
EuropeLVALatvia91.1498.4394.7994.791944643
EuropeLIELiechtenstein101.07101.07101.0738244
EuropeLTULithuania94.7397.2495.9995.992854235
EuropeLUXLuxembourg99.8799.8799.87594130
EuropeMKDMacedonia81.9181.9181.912103721
EuropeMLTMalta93.7188.8791.2991.29415196
EuropeMDAMoldova89.9889.9889.983510485
EuropeMNEMontenegro85.7885.7885.78642550
EuropeNLDNetherlands100.32101.30100.81100.81170169 67
EuropeNORNorway99.6694.7697.2197.215265158
EuropePOLPoland94.7498.0996.4296.4238476269
EuropePRTPortugal89.6596.0492.8492.8410839514
EuropeROURomania83.1990.6586.9286.9221529967
EuropeRUSRussia93.1899.6396.4096.40142257519
EuropeSRBSerbia87.8991.3889.6489.647111024
EuropeSVKSlovakia95.3297.3296.3296.325445829
EuropeSVNSlovenia98.7498.5998.6698.661972126
EuropeESPSpain92.2695.4793.8793.8748958159
EuropeSWESweden94.9299.0396.9896.989960487
EuropeCHESwitzerland97.27101.2299.2599.258236303
EuropeUKRUkraine88.6191.5490.0790.0744033874
EuropeGBRUnited Kingdom98.44100.0099.2299.2264769452
East AsiaCHNChina104.66103.24103.95103.951373541278
East AsiaHKGHong Kong106.08104.67105.38105.387167403
East AsiaJPNJapan107.31105.55106.43106.43126702133
East AsiaPRKKorea, North103.6425248140
East AsiaKORKorea, South97.59107.33102.46102.4650924172
East AsiaMACMacau99.8299.8299.82601969
East AsiaMNGMongolia99.3682.6991.0391.033031330
East AsiaTWNTaiwan108.71104.26106.49106.4923508428
Non-European anglophone whiteAUSAustralia99.5498.9699.2599.2522992654
Non-European anglophone whiteCANCanada97.86100.9199.3899.3835362905
Non-European anglophone whiteNZLNew Zealand99.5898.1398.8598.854474549
Non-European anglophone whiteUSAUnited States95.9199.0097.4697.46326625791


QNW means a score based on actual IQ studies weighted by sample size and quality of data, and SAS means a score based on scholastic assessment studies like PISA and TIMSS. For countries like North Korea and Andorra with no IQ or scholastic assessment data, the GEO score is calculated by averaging the scores of neighboring or similar countries.

What would you say is more reliable, QNV or QNW+SAS?

[Komintasavalta]

What would you say is more reliable, QNV or QNW+SAS?

Maybe SAS alone. The IQ studies use vastly different methodology, and for some countries there's only one study available. In the book by Lynn and Becker (2019), Belarus now has the highest national IQ of Europe, but it is based on a single study done on 6-year-old children (https://insights.ovid.com/ybps/200900001/00062674-200900001-00012) (https://www.ulsterinstitute.org/ebook/THE%20INTELLIGENCE%20OF%20NATIONS%20-%20Richard%20Lynn,%20David%20Becker.pdf):


2.3.9. Belarus (BLR)

A very huge number of breastfed children was tested by Kramer et al. (2008, Table 1) on the WASI. The full statistical population split in to children which were exclusive breastfeed and a control group. The control group gained an uncor. IQ of 101.90 and the exclusive breastfed 109.70. There were no clear numbers about the share of children in Belarusian population which were exclusive breastfeed but the two samples in the study were about the same size. The number of tested children was given as 13,824, a number of finally tested children separated by those who were exclusive breastfed or not was missed, so we split the total number equally to 2x6912. From both scores, 1.70 had to be subtracted for FE- correction and 2.50 for country-correction, so the cor. IQs are 97.70 and 105.50.

School assessment results for Belarus were not available, so the unweighted national IQ is 101.60 and the final national IQ is 101.60.

I keep saying that even in the case that East Asian IQ would be 105, it doesn't mean that the IQ gap between East Asians and whites would be only 5 points, because the average IQ of whites is probably below 100 (when looking at Greenwich IQ scores normalized against UK standards).

[Cristiano viejo]

It depends on the economy, is the country industrial? (highest IQ average) Or is the economy based on tourism, agriculture and oil or another resource?

First World (98 - 105).
Semi - First World (90 - 95). Portugal, Spain, Greece, some from Eastern Europe (Bulgaria and Poland for example).
Second world (85- 90). Latam, Eastern Europe, Middle East and Southeast Asia.
Third World (80 - 85). < 80 for sub-saharan Africa.

Spain is First World in every aspect and the Spanish IQ is 98.

Laughable Spain along Eastern countries.

[luc2112]

Spain is First World in every aspect and the Spanish IQ is 98.

Laughable Spain along Eastern countries.

EX: AUS, USA and Netherlands $ 55K per capita income, Spain $ 33.4 K (60% of per capita income of the countries cited as an example). Argentina in the 1970s reached 75% of the per capita income of the USA.

[Cristiano viejo]

EX: AUS, USA and Netherlands $ 55K per capita income, Spain $ 33.4 K (60% of per capita income of the countries cited as an example). Argentina in the 1970s reached 75% of the per capita income of the USA.

Yet First World in every aspect and above them in many.

[Supercomputer]

Spain is First World in every aspect and the Spanish IQ is 98.

Laughable Spain along Eastern countries.

Let me guess. You got that number by typing Spain IQ into Google where it comes from Lynn's outdated 2002 book.

[luc2112]

Yet First World in every aspect and above them in many.

Would have to evaluate the parameters (as a proportion of middle class). USA has almost the same life expectancy as Brazil. The higher the per capita income, the greater the investment in education and the higher the level of IQ. Japan and South Korea is a case in point, they are mountainous, highly industrial countries that require highly specialized labor, demanding and "military" education system.

[Gredos]

EX: AUS, USA and Netherlands $ 55K per capita income, Spain $ 33.4 K (60% of per capita income of the countries cited as an example). Argentina in the 1970s reached 75% of the per capita income of the USA.

now explain us why in this ranking Spain rank better infrastructure than the large European countries and the USA

https://www.statista.com/statistics/264753/ranking-of-countries-according-to-the-general-quality-of-infrastructure/

The infrastructure score is calculated based on the following factors: road connectivity index, quality of roads, railroad density, efficiency of train services, airport connectivity, efficiency of air transport services, linear shipping connectivity index, efficiency of seaport services, electrification rate, electric power transmission and distribution losses, exposure to unsafe drinking water, reliability of water supply.

If you remove the small rich countries that can create relatively easy good infrastructure, Spain ranks third after Japan and Korea. Not bad for a semi-first world country, right?, hahaha

[Cristiano viejo]

Let me guess. You got that number by typing Spain IQ into Google where it comes from Lynn's outdated 2002 book.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country

You know, studies :thumb001:

[Gredos]

It depends on the economy, is the country industrial? (highest IQ average) Or is the economy based on tourism, agriculture and oil or another resource?

You are so ignorant that you do not even know that the current first world economy is based on the service sector. Industry has shifted to developing countries

https://libraryeuroparl.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/fig11.jpg

[Zeno]

It depends on the economy, is the country industrial? (highest IQ average) Or is the economy based on tourism, agriculture and oil or another resource?

First World (98 - 105).
Semi - First World (90 - 95). Portugal, Spain, Greece, some from Eastern Europe (Bulgaria and Poland for example).
Second world (85- 90). Latam, Eastern Europe, Middle East and Southeast Asia.
Third World (80 - 85). < 80 for sub-saharan Africa.

Southern Europe and almost all Eastern Europe are first world. Don't degrade us at your level, thank you

[Zeno]

Bulgarian IQ is dropping fast. Us and the Greeks always were stable leaders in this part of the world and now we are basically down to Serb level which is a disgrace.

I blame chalga culture and Slavi Trifonov.

Greeks are normally in the 97-104 range. We still are, but immigrants and the last years of emigration of people mostly having tertiary education on sciences have dropped our average. But recently, for the latter, we have seen a lot of Greeks who emigrated abroad coming back permanently.

[luc2112]

now explain us why in this ranking Spain rank better infrastructure than the large European countries and the USA

https://www.statista.com/statistics/264753/ranking-of-countries-according-to-the-general-quality-of-infrastructure/

The infrastructure score is calculated based on the following factors: road connectivity index, quality of roads, railroad density, efficiency of train services, airport connectivity, efficiency of air transport services, linear shipping connectivity index, efficiency of seaport services, electrification rate, electric power transmission and distribution losses, exposure to unsafe drinking water, reliability of water supply.

If you remove the small rich countries that can create relatively easy good infrastructure, Spain ranks third after Japan and Korea. Not bad for a semi-first world country, right?, hahaha

https://lpi.worldbank.org/international/global?sort=asc&order=Infrastructure

[Cristiano viejo]

https://lpi.worldbank.org/international/global?sort=asc&order=Infrastructure

Finally you gave the reason to us.

[luc2112]

You are so ignorant that you do not even know that the current first world economy is based on the service sector. Industry has shifted to developing countries

https://libraryeuroparl.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/fig11.jpg

Industry is only one sector (but requires a high level of education). I didn't say 1st world = industrial country. Communist Eastern Europe has scored high in IQ tests in the past due to large investment in education (but without proportional economic development).

[luc2112]

Southern Europe and almost all Eastern Europe are first world.
Nope


Don't degrade us at your level, thank you
?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I don't go to a blog to read about IQ studies. I go to an actual IQ study.

Here is one from Portugal in 2011 that is broken down by region and has almost 5,000 participants.
https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2011-almeida.pdf

A very different result than the average given in the OP.

This thread isn't about Mexico but I have it here to make a point.


Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices test was administered to a representative sample of 920 white, Mestizo and Native Mexican Indian children aged 7-10 years in Mexico. The mean IQs in relation to a British mean of 100 obtained from the 1979 British standardization sample and adjusted for the estimated subsequent increase were: 98.0 for whites, 94.3 for Mestizos and 83.3 for Native Mexican Indians.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15688574/

What does that indicate other than there are significant factors that can depress IQ in a population? You have a mixed population that scores almost as well as Whites, but you also have a population representing the other part of that ancestry scoring very poorly. Amerindians in Mexico face many problems and these - from malnutrition to simply how you speak to a toddler - affect your intellectual development.

IQ is genetic but not everyone reaches their full potential.

[Gredos]

https://lpi.worldbank.org/international/global?sort=asc&order=Infrastructure

https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp

search, search now, hahahaha

[luc2112]

edit

[luc2112]

I don't go to a blog to read about IQ studies. I go to an actual IQ study.

Here is one from Portugal in 2011 that is broken down by region and has almost 5,000 participants.
https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/2011-almeida.pdf

A very different result than the average given in the OP.

This thread isn't about Mexico but I have it here to make a point.



What does that indicate other than there are significant factors that can depress IQ in a population? You have a mixed population that scores almost as well as Whites, but you also have a population representing the other part of that ancestry scoring very poorly. Amerindians in Mexico face many problems and these - from malnutrition to simply how you speak to a toddler - affect your intellectual development.

IQ is genetic but not everyone reaches their full potential.

it's genetic for blacks (I don't know what the problem is). Mongols is the same as whites, Whites are expected to score somewhere between IQ 80 - 90 with little civilization or tribal, but Europeans are in developed countries. For Amerindians or mestizos they will score higher if they are in the middle class

[Supercomputer]

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country

You know, studies :thumb001:

These numbers are false.

[Supercomputer]

dpš

[luc2112]

These numbers are false.

Yes, But the last R. Lynn list is inconsistent. Greece, Romania with IQ 82/83, lol...... is very low.

[Tauromachos]

Ha Ha Ha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzKx9k0JkHw

[Supercomputer]

Yes, But the last R. Lynn list is inconsistent. Greece, Romania with IQ 82/83, lol...... is very low.

Greece and Romania are 91 and 87. QNV plus SAS is the final score

[luc2112]

Greece and Romania are 91 and 87. QNV plus SAS is the final score

I don't remember where I saw these numbers, but here's a list:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299957-World-IQ-scores-(2019)-Richard-Lynn&highlight=list+country

[ixulescu]

Greece and Romania are 91 and 87. QNV plus SAS is the final score

those numbers are trash. we had this discussion already in this thread. use the proper numbers (posted here).

[Tauromachos]

In any case from this it would also seems White Americans are significantly smarter than Europeans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orYcAiFqknU

[luc2112]

In Balkans and Greece the average IQ is at a US Black level (85-90).

This score is probably not correct or realistic, it should only include blacks who are studying. There are others who do not study, drop out or are expelled from school.

[Supercomputer]

those numbers are trash. we had this discussion already in this thread. use the proper numbers (posted here).

What proper numbers? Please don't tell me its the ones from Lynns 2002 book, because we know those are outdated.

[Cristiano viejo]

These numbers are false.

False? ahhh, you trust of studies when are convenient for you, eh? :rolleyes:

[Supercomputer]

False? ahhh, you trust of studies when are convenient for you, eh? :rolleyes:

No. I just trust the latest numbers rather than old ones if they are from the same author.

[Cristiano viejo]

No. I just trust the latest numbers rather than old ones if they are from the same author.

Does that make false his first study? :rolleyes:

[Zeno]

What proper numbers? Please don't tell me its the ones from Lynns 2002 book, because we know those are outdated.

He cited a survey consisting of thousands of Romanians up to 2020. And it showed an average of 103 as I remember.

[Zeno]

Yes, But the last R. Lynn list is inconsistent. Greece, Romania with IQ 82/83, lol...... is very low.

Try telling that to Supercomputer... Lol, if Greece was that low it wouldn't even had a GDP of 32,6k $ per capita in PPP or an HDI of 0.888 if we are to follow Lynn's theories.

[Suinthila]

I've looked at some IQ scores from viewoniq.org (without student assessment studies as many claim you can't measure IQ based from student assessment) which has the latest database of IQs and there's no way around it. European IQs are horribly low. The White IQ (if we consider all Europeans to be White) is threfor far below 100. Only a few European countries have IQs at 100 or above and many many of them are around 90 and even lower. In Balkans and Greece the average IQ is at a US Black level (85-90). Particularly disappointing are IQs of Czechia, Ireland, Latvia, Ukraine, Romania and even Sweden. I've done a rough calculation and from these numbers the average IQ of Europe is 94,6. I don't know how much if any the scores in Western nations have been depressed by brown immigrants. In any case from this it would also seems White Americans are significantly smarter than Europeans. The database was created by professor David Becker of Chemnitz, Germany with help from Richard Lynn.


There are global maps already on the website, but I've done better quality zooms of Europe only:

Student assessment studies only:

https://i.postimg.cc/RV4KyWnD/SAS-only.png (https://postimg.cc/G9g4shKF)free photo hosting (https://postimages.org/)

IQ plus SAS

https://i.postimg.cc/ncF9TNy8/IQ-plus-SAS.png (https://postimg.cc/z3QfG2Dp)

IQ only (Unweighted)

https://i.postimg.cc/j5YLf1HF/IQ-only-unweighted.png (https://postimg.cc/f35znBgc)

IQ only (Weighted by sample size and data quality, more reliable)

https://i.postimg.cc/kXgDWKSq/IQ-only-Weighted.png (https://postimg.cc/vDCQs1XN)

To check the data yourself go to https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9 and download the latest dataset. Under the xls file got o FAV tab and UW column is unweighted IQ, NW column is IQ weighted by sample size and QNV is IQ weighted by both sample size and data quality.

Your thoughts?


My thoughts are that anyone can draw a map and put some figures on it :shrug:

[Supercomputer]

My thoughts are that anyone can draw a map and put some figures on it :shrug:

I'm simply citing viewoniq. Complain to them.

[Suinthila]

I'm simply citing viewoniq. Complain to them.

lol

No complaints, just thoughts, precisely what you were asking for

[Supercomputer]

Does that make false his first study? :rolleyes:


Lynns first book only had actual studies for 81 countries, the rest were just estimates from surrounding nations. Plus
most of it came just from one old study. Later he updated his list with more studies as well as SAS so his newer list is probably more reliable.

[Supercomputer]

He cited a survey consisting of thousands of Romanians up to 2020. And it showed an average of 103 as I remember.

We don't know how that is synchronized. The best thing to do is to email David Becker so that he includes this study in his new release.

[Cristiano viejo]

Lynns first book only had actual studies for 81 countries, the rest were just estimates from surrounding nations. Plus
most of it came just from one old study. Later he updated his list with more studies as well as SAS so his newer list is probably more reliable.

So you are stating any study loses validity just because another follows it??
What is the impression that the scientific community would give with this??

Sorry, you are showing you are very biased. When it is interest to you the study is reliable, does not matter if proves to be weak or others follow it... when does not interest to you it is just outdated "because it is weak and others follow it" :rolleyes:

No comments about the methodology used, based in personal perceptions of colour, brightness, etc.

[Supercomputer]

So you are stating any study loses validity just because another follows it??
What is the impression that the scientific community would give with this??

Sorry, you are showing you are very biased. When it is interest to you the study is reliable, does not matter if proves to be weak or others follow it... when does not interest to you it is just outdated "because it is weak and others follow it" :rolleyes:

No comments about the methodology used, based in personal perceptions of colour, brightness, etc.

You're not being very rational and you own personal biases regarding Spain are blinding you. What is more reliable, a list made from just one study per country or a list made by the same author years later with more studies per country, numbers weighted by data quality as well as sample size and student assessment studies added? When the same author updates his numbers and adds MORE DATA in addition he had earlier, i'm going to trust his later work. Earlier studies weren't erased, just more data was added.

[luc2112]

Lynns first book only had actual studies for 81 countries, the rest were just estimates from surrounding nations. Plus
most of it came just from one old study. Later he updated his list with more studies as well as SAS so his newer list is probably more reliable.

Has published a date based on per capita income or arbitrarily

These are poor Europeans (they are far from being stupid):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoLCD3rP9DM

really low IQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju1Vsap9SEE

[Insuperable]

Reverse Flynn effect happening in Europe bas been noted.

[-Scar-]

..................

[-Scar-]

Greeks are normally in the 97-104 range. We still are, but immigrants and the last years of emigration of people mostly having tertiary education on sciences have dropped our average. But recently, for the latter, we have seen a lot of Greeks who emigrated abroad coming back permanently.

IQ tests are not accurate and are culturally influenced. I think it takes up to many hours to estimate the intelligence quotient. This is why Middle Easterns score lower than Europeans.

[LittleDarkAge]

IQ tests are not accurate and are culturally influenced. I think it takes up to many hours to estimate the intelligence quotient. This is why Middle Easterns score lower than Europeans.

Wrong. Most IQ tests are not culturally influenced at all. IQ tests are actually the most reliable intelligence tests that we have today. It has been improved since the year it was created (1905). IQ tests show the same pattern for racial averages around the world, regardless of level of education, environment conditions, or nationality. That happens because IQ is largely genetic (about 70%).

[-Scar-]

Wrong. Most IQ tests are not culturally influenced at all. IQ tests are actually the most reliable intelligence tests that we have today. It has been improved since the year it was created (1905). IQ tests show the same pattern for racial averages around the world, regardless of level of education, environment conditions, or nationality. That happens because IQ is largely genetic (about 70%).

Human intelligence is very complex to be estimated with just a test.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iq-scores-not-accurate-marker-of-intelligence-study-shows/

Middle Eastern people are the same people who produced ancient Egyptians and Phoenicans. And they are the same race as Europeans.

[LittleDarkAge]

Human intelligence is very complex to be estimated with just a test.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iq-scores-not-accurate-marker-of-intelligence-study-shows/

CBS News? Come on, I know you can do better than that. Human intelligence is complex to be estimated accurately by tests, but the IQ tests give us a good notion of averages. Studies conducted around the world show the same pattern of race differences in intelligence. No matter how complex human intelligence can be, the pattern is still there. You can ask me why. It's evolution. The necessity of being smarter to survive in a harsh environment is the main factor of intelligence. Races are unequal, which means one of them would be more intelligent than the others, on average. If you deny that, please explain to me: how can different races who have evolved in different environments be the same when it comes to intelligence? They are not the same when it comes to physical traits, diseases, and behavior. Why would they be equally intelligent then?


Middle Eastern people are the same people who produced ancient Egyptians and Phoenicans. And they are the same race as Europeans.

Actually, no. Sorry to break it to you, but someone has to do it: Ancient Egyptians and Phoenicians were White. I'm sure you will figure out the same by studying the European origins and migrations around the world. DNA tests have shown several times that the Egyptian elite was European. They were mainly of Mediterranid and Nordid stock. Not much different from the elite in Sumer, the first human civilization ever created.

Whites and Semites are not the same race. Sure, there are many Whites in the Middle East (which is also an indicator of our early migrations around the region), but they are genetically European, not Semite.

[Zeno]

IQ tests are not accurate and are culturally influenced. I think it takes up to many hours to estimate the intelligence quotient. This is why Middle Easterns score lower than Europeans.

The usual garbage spiel about "muh cultural bias"...

I've taken IQ tests, even on the internet. They barely have any questions about history or culture. If they have, they ask you about ALL of global history and ALL of the cultures out there.

They mainly concentrate on comprehension of reading, of patterns and of mathematics. How's that biased?

[-Scar-]

CBS News? Come on, I know you can do better than that. Human intelligence is complex to be estimated accurately by tests, but the IQ tests give us a good notion of averages. Studies conducted around the world show the same pattern of race differences in intelligence. No matter how complex human intelligence can be, the pattern is still there. You can ask me why. It's evolution. The necessity of being smarter to survive in a harsh environment is the main factor of intelligence. Races are unequal, which means one of them would be more intelligent than the others, on average. If you deny that, please explain to me: how can different races who have evolved in different environments be the same when it comes to intelligence? They are not the same when it comes to physical traits, diseases, and behavior. Why would they be equally intelligent then?
Yes intelligence is largely genetic, but the differences are also caused by cultural influences. As the more developed countries have a better education level and therefore it's people are more likely to explore the length of their intelligence. There is strong correlation between IQ and education level in the results. I agree that White People are on average probably smarter (when it comes to IQ) than Australian Aborigines, but it also influnced by the fact that European are more well trained. (historically) So the distance might decrease, even though it is still there.
But between Arabs and Europeans? I think it mostly cultural.




Actually, no. Sorry to break it to you, but someone has to do it: Ancient Egyptians and Phoenicians were White. I'm sure you will figure out the same by studying the European origins and migrations around the world. DNA tests have shown several times that the Egyptian elite was European. They were mainly of Mediterranid and Nordid stock. Not much different from the elite in Sumer, the first human civilization ever created.

Whites and Semites are not the same race. Sure, there are many Whites in the Middle East (which is also an indicator of our early migrations around the region), but they are genetically European, not Semite.

There is for example: European group A which is closer to a Middle Eastern population than European group B. There is less genetic diversity between you and a Palestinian than there is between 2 different tribes of Africa.
Besides we do have genetic data from ancient Egypt and Canaaites and they were of Northern African and Middle Eastern ancestry. Closests population to Ancient Egyptians in the present day are the Copts.
And how did Nordid People migration from central/northern Europe to ancient Egypt in 2000 BC? With airplanes?

[-Scar-]

The usual garbage spiel about "muh cultural bias"...

I've taken IQ tests, even on the internet. They barely have any questions about history or culture. If they have, they ask you about ALL of global history and ALL of the cultures out there.

They mainly concentrate on comprehension of reading, of patterns and of mathematics. How's that biased?

People who live in poor countries are more weakly trained in fields like Mathematics which contributes to IQ scores.

[Dandelion]

Too stubborn to learn.

[tipirneni]

a number of Indian-origin teens have managed to secure 160+ IQ score in Mensa tests, above geniuses like Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, however avg still however low due to vast number of tribals & rural people uneducated

[LittleDarkAge]

Yes intelligence is largely genetic, but the differences are also caused by cultural influences.

The culture is a representation of the population intelligence too. Why do you think some cultures create more productive and hardworking individuals, and other cultures do not? A culture doesn't fall from the sky. Europeans weren't given their cultures out of nowhere. A culture is a manifestation of the natural behavior of a people. It is certainly no coincidence that White communities around the world are generally productive and hardworking. Their cities are clean and safe. No matter how much access Whites have to the educational system, they always find a way to triumph. Take Orania as an example. It's a Whites-only small town in South Africa created by people who were and are still being persecuted and murdered by the African savages. Which opportunities have Whites had in South Africa? None. And they still managed to create a functioning community with standards of living higher than those of most South African cities.

Remember the first human civilization ever created that I mentioned hours ago? Yes, Sumer was created by Whites who had learned how to domesticate animals, grow crops, and build cities. Did they use to go to school back then? Did they attend College? Oh, neither existed back in the day, but we created Colleges and schools anyways, didn't we?


As the more developed countries have a better education level and therefore it's people are more likely to explore the length of their intelligence.

At a first thought I was about to say you are probably right, but there is a problem here:
Intelligent people are way more prone to explore, discover, and learn than less intelligent people. In other words, lower intelligence populations could explore the length of their intelligence, in theory, but they would have to have curiosity and desire to learn, which are traits associated with intelligent people. Take the American Blacks as an example. They have access to the educational system in the United States, but they are not known for being curious, inventive, or creative students. Why's that? Because their inherent IQ is low, and this alone makes them less ambitious when it comes to learning, innovating, and creating. In summary, higher levels of education may help a population in terms of intelligence, but not significantly, and they already have to be intelligent to want to overcome their problems and learn more. Let's be honest: that is not expected from a 85 IQ group.


There is strong correlation between IQ and education level in the results.

About 20% or 30%, but nutrition is the most important factor. Even Africans born and raised in White countries have a low perfomance in the educational system compared to Whites. The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study has shown that American Blacks adopted by White couples still have a lower IQ than that of American Whites adopted by Black couples, regardless of the environment they were brought up in.



I agree that White People are on average probably smarter (when it comes to IQ) than Australian Aborigines, but it also influnced by the fact that European are more well trained. (historically)

Indeed. We are more well trained due to our intelligent ancestors' inventions: the scientific method, the peer-reviewed scientific studies, the Aristotelian logic, the free thought mechanism. The list goes on.


So the distance might decrease, even though it is still there.
But between Arabs and Europeans? I think it mostly cultural.

Most studies show otherwise.


There is for example: European group A which is closer to a Middle Eastern population than European group B. There is less genetic diversity between you and a Palestinian than there is between 2 different tribes of Africa.
Besides we do have genetic data from ancient Egypt and Canaaites and they were of Northern African and Middle Eastern ancestry. Closests population to Ancient Egyptians in the present day are the Copts.
And how did Nordid People migration from central/northern Europe to ancient Egypt in 2000 BC? With airplanes?

Nordids have lived in many places around the world. Their tribes could be found among ancient Sumerians, Egyptians and even Chinese. Do you doubt it, don't you? Fun game: open your browser and search for 'Blonde Mummies in China'. You might learn one thing or two.

[-Scar-]

The culture is a representation of the population intelligence too. Why do you think some cultures create more productive and hardworking individuals, and other cultures do not? A culture doesn't fall from the sky. Europeans weren't given their cultures out of nowhere. A culture is a manifestation of the natural behavior of a people. It is certainly no coincidence that White communities around the world are generally productive and hardworking. Their cities are clean and safe. No matter how much access Whites have to the educational system, they always find a way to triumph. Take Orania as an example. It's a Whites-only small town in South Africa created by people who were and are still being persecuted and murdered by the African savages. Which opportunities have Whites had in South Africa? None. And they still managed to create a functioning community with standards of living higher than those of most South African cities.

Remember the first human civilization ever created that I mentioned hours ago? Yes, Sumer was created by Whites who had learned how to domesticate animals, grow crops, and build cities. Did they use to go to school back then? Did they attend College? Oh, neither existed back in the day, but we created Colleges and schools anyways, didn't we?



At a first thought I was about to say you are probably right, but there is a problem here:
Intelligent people are way more prone to explore, discover, and learn than less intelligent people. In other words, lower intelligence populations could explore the length of their intelligence, in theory, but they would have to have curiosity and desire to learn, which are traits associated with intelligent people. Take the American Blacks as an example. They have access to the educational system in the United States, but they are not known for being curious, inventive, or creative students. Why's that? Because their inherent IQ is low, and this alone makes them less ambitious when it comes to learning, innovating, and creating. In summary, higher levels of education may help a population in terms of intelligence, but not significantly, and they already have to be intelligent to want to overcome their problems and learn more. Let's be honest: that is not expected from a 85 IQ group.



About 20% or 30%, but nutrition is the most important factor. Even Africans born and raised in White countries have a low perfomance in the educational system compared to Whites. The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study has shown that American Blacks adopted by White couples still have a lower IQ than that of American Whites adopted by Black couples, regardless of the environment they were brought up in.




Indeed. We are more well trained due to our intelligent ancestors' inventions: the scientific method, the peer-reviewed scientific studies, the Aristotelian logic, the free thought mechanism. The list goes on.



Most studies show otherwise.



Nordids have lived in many places around the world. Their tribes could be found among ancient Sumerians, Egyptians and even Chinese. Do you doubt it, don't you? Fun game: open your browser and search for 'Blonde Mummies in China'. You might learn one thing or two.

I bet big bucks that you learned all this from Stormfront. I will answer later. You are a walking stereotype of them.

[LittleDarkAge]

I bet big bucks that you learned all this from Stormfront. I will answer later. You are a walking stereotype of them.

Still smarter than you, though. Isn't it funny?

[Zeno]

I bet big bucks that you learned all this from Stormfront. I will answer later. You are a walking stereotype of them.

EvErYthANg tHaT dOeSn'T aDHerE tO mY pOinT oF viEW is NaHTZEEEeeeEEEE!1!1!1!1!11!!!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51-BmvTculL.jpg

I guess this book from Cambridge University Press, created in a joint effort from 25 scientists, is Stormfront... Sod off.

[Wehrmacht]

Norway has only 95, but Russia has 100? Are you kidding me?

[Benyzero]

Norway has only 95, but Russia has 100? Are you kidding me?

What you want from a bunch of freezing fishermen

[Komintasavalta]

Norway has only 95, but Russia has 100? Are you kidding me?

That's based on scholastic assessment studies alone.

Russia's score based on IQ studies (UW/NW/QNW) was lower than Norway's. This is from NIQ-DATA (V1.3.3).xlsx (https://viewoniq.org/?page_id=9):


CountryUWNWQNWSASQNW+SASQNW+SAS+GEO
Norway97.9398.2399.6694.7697.2197.21
Russia92.2392.4893.1899.6396.4096.40


The non-SAS IQ score of Russia was based on two sources (https://www.ulsterinstitute.org/ebook/THE%20INTELLIGENCE%20OF%20NATIONS%20-%20Richard%20Lynn,%20David%20Becker.pdf, page 134):


2.3.96. Russia (RUS)

From the SPM-manual (Raven, Raven & Court, 1999, Table 29) we took a mean raw score of 47.00 for on average 14.50y olds from Briansk. This score is at the 47.29th GBR-P and equivalent to an uncor. IQ of 98.98, which had to be reduced by 3.78 for FE-correction to 95.20.

Shibaev and Lynn (2017, Table 1) compared Russian and Yakut secondary school students on the SPM. Both samples came from Yakutsk and had mean ages of 12.50y. Uncor. IQs are similar with 96.35 and 97.33 and both had to be reduced by 6.09 for FE-correction. The cor. IQs are 90.26 and 91.24.

Russia obtained an unweighted national IQ of 92.23 with a standard deviation of 2.61, which did not change significantly after weightings to 92.95. School assessment results were available for all observed PISA-, TIMSS- and PIRLS-volumes and resulted in a SAS-IQ of 99.63. The final national IQ is 96.29.

In the other source, the subjects were Russians from Yakutsk (the capital of Yakutia). The regional PISA scores of Yakutia have been far below the Russian average (even though I'm not sure if the same is true of the city of Yakutsk, or of ethnic Russians in Yakutia): https://www.unz.com/akarlin/map-russia-iq-2/.

The other source was based on a single task (children's progressive matrices). The source was published in 1999, when Russia was suffering from massive Western/Jewish asset stripping, but Lynn and Becker still deduced 3.78 points from the score because of the Flynn Effect.

[Komintasavalta]

The non-SAS IQ score of Norway was based on three sources. In one source the subjects were from Oslo, and in another source, the subjects were also from a high-income region of Norway:

https://i.ibb.co/nLx5sz6/a.jpg


2.3.86. Norway (NOR)

On a sample with a mean age of 20.00y from Oslo, the CFT was administered and measured an uncor. IQ of 101.80 (Buj, 1981, Table 1). This score had to be corrected by -7.28 and -2.50 for FE and country to 92.02.

Helland et al. (2008, Fig.2) presented IQs measured on the KABC on two selective samples from Norway. Both were from mothers which got nutrition supplementation during and after pregnancy, one with corn oil and one with cod-liver oil. Differences in intelligence between both samples were marginal with 109.00 vs. 110.00, so we used the mean of 109.50 as the uncor. IQ, reduced by 11.44 and 2.50 for FE- and country-correction to 95.56.

Høie et al. (2005, Fig.1) compared children from Hordaland County with and without epilepsy. Intelligence was measured with the SPM. From the given percentile distribution, we calculated a raw score of 43.92 for the control sample, which is at the 76.03rd GBR-P and equivalent to an uncor. IQ of 110.61, corrected by - 4.41 for FE to 106.20. The epilepsy-sample scored significantly lower and had therefore been excluded.

This gives Norway an unweighted national IQ of 97.93 with a standard deviation of 7.38, and a weighted national IQ of 99.51. The SAS-IQ, calculated from results from all observed school assessment studies except TIMSS-1999, is 94.76 and the final national IQ 97.13.

[Universe]

People who live in poor countries are more weakly trained in fields like Mathematics which contributes to IQ scores.

United Arab Emirates isn't a poor country, but Ukraine with its third world economy does better than them at the PISA maths test. Vietnam - another country with third worldish gdp / capita - does even better than Ukraine, they do as well as some western countries(France, Austrialia, Iceland, Austria, etc etc.).
The european country to do best at PISA maths test is Estonia, it's much poorer than Northern/Western Euro countries. Poland was 3rd in Europe (2018)
So environment seems overrated to me.

The correlation between weealth and IQ isn't necessarily because wealth creates high IQ people, but it can also be because high IQ people are more likely to create wealth.

[-Scar-]

EvErYthANg tHaT dOeSn'T aDHerE tO mY pOinT oF viEW is NaHTZEEEeeeEEEE!1!1!1!1!11!!!
He did not deny it.

I guess this book from Cambridge University Press, created in a joint effort from 25 scientists, is Stormfront... Sod off.

I am well aware that IQ is largely genetic, but when it comes to group results there is a noticable correlation within the environment.
Iran IQ was 95 in the communist regime and now it is 84. Why?

[-Scar-]

The culture is a representation of the population intelligence too. Why do you think some cultures create more productive and hardworking individuals, and other cultures do not? A culture doesn't fall from the sky. Europeans weren't given their cultures out of nowhere. A culture is a manifestation of the natural behavior of a people. It is certainly no coincidence that White communities around the world are generally productive and hardworking. Their cities are clean and safe. No matter how much access Whites have to the educational system, they always find a way to triumph. Take Orania as an example. It's a Whites-only small town in South Africa created by people who were and are still being persecuted and murdered by the African savages. Which opportunities have Whites had in South Africa? None. And they still managed to create a functioning community with standards of living higher than those of most South African cities.

Remember the first human civilization ever created that I mentioned hours ago? Yes, Sumer was created by Whites who had learned how to domesticate animals, grow crops, and build cities. Did they use to go to school back then? Did they attend College? Oh, neither existed back in the day, but we created Colleges and schools anyways, didn't we?

There were many different factors that contributed to the rise of the civilisation such as climates and geographical position. The reason why Western Countries are what they are now is because they were lead by the Roman civilisation (thanks to Italy) and as well as due to the translation of the ancient Greek texts done by Arabs and Byzantines. The Moors and the Byzantines were way more progressive than the Catholic Europe in a certain time.If you think that if Scandinavia remained isolated exactly like Australian Aboriginales till the 19th century, would be where they are now then you are seriously mistaken.

Sumer was not created by genetically European people (if you mean that when you say White) but Middle Easterns.


Intelligent people are way more prone to explore, discover, and learn than less intelligent people. In other words, lower intelligence populations could explore the length of their intelligence, in theory, but they would have to have curiosity and desire to learn, which are traits associated with intelligent people. Take the American Blacks as an example. They have access to the educational system in the United States, but they are not known for being curious, inventive, or creative students. Why's that? Because their inherent IQ is low, and this alone makes them less ambitious when it comes to learning, innovating, and creating. In summary, higher levels of education may help a population in terms of intelligence, but not significantly, and they already have to be intelligent to want to overcome their problems and learn more. Let's be honest: that is not expected from a 85 IQ group.

Yes intelligent people are more prone to explore, discover and learn, but that's by an individual prespective. But why are almost all inventions done by people who belong to the aristocracy? Like Newton for example. I do not doubt that he was born a genius though. And why weren't Northern Europeans doing those inventions 2000 years or 3000 years ago, when the Greeks and Egyptians did? It all comes from genes right? Very little outside of it, right?
As for African Americans that's a long story which is related with their own culture.

Nordids have lived in many places around the world. Their tribes could be found among ancient Sumerians, Egyptians and even Chinese. Do you doubt it, don't you? Fun game: open your browser and search for 'Blonde Mummies in China'. You might learn one thing or two.

There are still blondes in Egypt and Iraq. What's your point?
Those people were still Middle Easterns.

[ixulescu]

Sumer was not created by genetically European people (if you mean that by White) but Middle Easterns.


I don't think we can say that with certainty. Sumerians were not related to Akkadians who succeeded them, and they describe themselves as racially different in their own writings.

[Supercomputer]

See the edit in my comment.

So I hate South Europeans because I made one comment about a group of Greeks who look like MEAN people? Jesus I knew people here can be idiots, but you my friend take the cake. Along with everyone who liked your dumb comment.

[Insuperable]

These are my experiences with youth today. Most are subhuman morons and everything went into extremes. There are either these morons or there is very smart youth. And in my experience these smart people today tend to be smarter than people before them, but there is unfortunately no great number of them.
It's as if these smart youth took advantage of modern world to their benefit and morons didn't. The latter got dumbed by social media etc.

[Victor]

These are my experiences with youth today. Most are subhuman morons and everything went into extremes. There are either these morons or there is very smart youth. And in my experience these smart people today tend to be smarter than people before them, but there is unfortunately no great number of them.
It's as if these smart youth took advantage of modern world to their benefit and morons didn't. The latter got dumbed by social media etc.

I like modern youth. They are not lukewarm. If my generation was made of average idiots including myself, everyone very similar, hedonist wankers, this youth is either extremely wicked or extremely good. Lots of interesting, smart youngsters around, very few of them are some drunkards or drug addicts (I don't speak about social cases but general attitude), majority looks fine and seems to be more mentally grown up than people of their age some 15-20 years ago. They're not full of shit like late Soviet/early post-Soviet gens, maybe I'm not objective because I dislike my gen and me and my family never been doing stereotypical things typical for my gen and these decades of 20-21 century.

[Dick]

Supercalifragilisticexpialatrocious

[Zeno]

So I hate South Europeans because I made one comment about a group of Greeks who look like MEAN people? Jesus I knew people here can be idiots, but you my friend take the cake. Along with everyone who liked your dumb comment.


Well, you offending anyone who merely agreed with my opinion is in turn the dumbest thing anyone can make. Because it shows that a) he doesn't consider any other opinions that might actually refute your own or merely point out they're wrong and b) it makes him seem like he thinks that he's the only smart one in the room and that anyone else is a dummy, which would constitute him to being the epitome of a dimwit.

For me, fine, I'm "an idiot", alright, but what about all the others who agreed with me?


These are my experiences with youth today. Most are subhuman morons and everything went into extremes. There are either these morons or there is very smart youth. And in my experience these smart people today tend to be smarter than people before them, but there is unfortunately no great number of them.
It's as if these smart youth took advantage of modern world to their benefit and morons didn't. The latter got dumbed by social media etc.

Well, it's exactly due to exposure to the Internet that many in my generation and younger ones have been dumbed down. But it's not the majority of them. They just expose themselves more, because they're attention whores. The majority of my generation and all younger ones are normal people, who just don't expose themselves as much or not at all. Why? Because we understand (and I'm one of the people who think that as well), that we seriously don't earn anything from exposing ourselves to social media or even engaging that actively with them. We think of them as mere messaging apps at most, at least that's how I see them, along with everyone I've befriended or have a closer acquintance with.

[Supercomputer]

Well, you offending anyone who merely agreed with my opinion is in turn the dumbest thing anyone can make. Because it shows that a) he doesn't consider any other opinions that might actually refute your own or merely point out they're wrong and b) it makes him seem like he thinks that he's the only smart one in the room and that anyone else is a dummy, which would constitute him to being the epitome of a dimwit.

For me, fine, I'm "an idiot", alright, but what about all the others who agreed with me?



Well, it's exactly due to exposure to the Internet that many in my generation and younger ones have been dumbed down. But it's not the majority of them. They just expose themselves more, because they're attention whores. The majority of my generation and all younger ones are normal people, who just don't expose themselves as much or not at all. Why? Because we understand (and I'm one of the people who think that as well), that we seriously don't earn anything from exposing ourselves to social media or even engaging that actively with them. We think of them as mere messaging apps at most, at least that's how I see them, along with everyone I've befriended or have a closer acquintance with.

Yes absolutely because your opinion is dumb and libelous. You accused me of hating South Europeans. Either provide evidence for that or apologise to me. One comment that five MENA people look Greek is not evidence that someone hates Europeans. So What's it going to be? Evidence or apology?

[Zeno]

Yes absolutely because your opinion is dumb and libelous. You accused me of hating South Europeans. Either provide evidence for that or apologise to me. One comment that five MENA people look Greek is not evidence that someone hates Europeans. So What's it going to be? Evidence or apology?

Ah, if it's for that, then I do apologise, it's my mistake, I acted upon impulsions.

But I still have intense disagreements for the maps in your original posts. For these I did call them pathetic, as they're based on Lynn's data which correlate IQ with GDP per capita as the main parametre, without conducting any psychometric testing through which we can see raw intelligence scores.

[Tradra]

Norwegians are exceptionally stupid and gullible.

[Supercomputer]

Ah, if it's for that, then I do apologise, it's my mistake, I acted upon impulsions.

But I still have intense disagreements for the maps in your original posts. For these I did call them pathetic, as they're based on Lynn's data which correlate IQ with GDP per capita as the main parametre, without conducting any psychometric testing through which we can see raw intelligence scores.

Apology accepted. As for Lynns's maps. They come from scores of published IQ studies, they have nothing to do with GDP per capita. I have done some research and a legitimate criticism of Lynn's and Becker's data on IQs for countries is they use studies which don't necessarily represent the whole country. Many countries only have a few IQ studies published and if people who take the test aren't chosen at random from the entire population, then there is a good chance the score won't be representative. Only when there are many studies for a given country can you statistically expect a representative final score. I am currently doing a map of European and world IQs by PISA scores which is IMO much better since in PISA they use much higher sample size and students are chosen at random. Since PISA test is essentially an IQ test, final PISA scores can be taken as the average IQ for a given country especially if the country participated in PISA several times. Will publish maps here soon.

[tita]

I calculated non migrant score of european countries on 3 different PISA tests (non migrant means no parents with foreign origin), one each new PISA study, here is the result
125415
Also, just found that https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ad5pip/mean_pisa_science_score_of_european_countries_by/

[Supercomputer]

I calculated non migrant score of european countries on 3 different PISA tests (non migrant means no parents with foreign origin), one each new PISA study, here is the result
125415
Also, just found that https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/ad5pip/mean_pisa_science_score_of_european_countries_by/

Where did you find non immigrant scores for reading and science? I only found for math for 2022.

I converted PISA scores for all subjects (reading, science, math and problem solving for 2003) of all years available (2000 - 2022) into IQ scores for all countries and am now making maps, but it includes migrants.

[catgeorge]

red neck science - there are different forms of intelligence not just reading and writing.

[tita]

Where did you find non immigrant scores for reading and science? I only found for math for 2022.

I converted PISA scores for all subjects (reading, science, math and problem solving for 2003) of all years available (2000 - 2022) into IQ scores for all countries and am now making maps, but it includes migrants.

From my research i noticed PISA provides a massive bunch of data. You can find excel files with litteraly everything about scores and conditions, here is for 2015 for example : https://www.oecd.org/pisa/data/2015database/ in section compendia, choose the questionnaire items, then in the folder chose one file with "stu" in the name, then in the file look for "immig"

[Zeno]

Apology accepted. As for Lynns's maps. They come from scores of published IQ studies, they have nothing to do with GDP per capita. I have done some research and a legitimate criticism of Lynn's and Becker's data on IQs for countries is they use studies which don't necessarily represent the whole country. Many countries only have a few IQ studies published and if people who take the test aren't chosen at random from the entire population, then there is a good chance the score won't be representative. Only when there are many studies for a given country can you statistically expect a representative final score. I am currently doing a map of European and world IQs by PISA scores which is IMO much better since in PISA they use much higher sample size and students are chosen at random. Since PISA test is essentially an IQ test, final PISA scores can be taken as the average IQ for a given country especially if the country participated in PISA several times. Will publish maps here soon.

For PISA, I have a very legitimate criticism:

First off, it only examines one very particular age group. 15 year olds in this case. You cannot judge the intelligence of an entire population just by one age group. It would much more proper if you took samples from every age group that can actually be eligible to be tested. Aka, from any working age group, 15 to 67 y.o., at best until the age of 70.

Secondly, this particular test isn't exactly an IQ test. Many countries have particular programs dedicated to preparing the students for this particular set of tests. The questions themselves aren't physics or mathematics problems, the questions mostly revolve around the practical usage of physics and mathematics. Aka, it doesn't examine the students on these subjects themselves.

Then: it's notorious that many participating countries cheat consistently. China for example only chooses a dozen schools from the first-tier cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhenjiang) and places these schools as the average for the entire country. Then, even Sweden in 2018 excluded 11% of its student population, who were all immigrants, "in order not to result in lower-than-expected results". Aka, it didn't want to show that immigration had caused its education system quality.

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/too-many-students-excluded-from-taking-pisa-test-report-finds
https://www.norrag.org/how-unrepresentative-are-chinas-stellar-pisa-results-by-rob-j-gruijters/



Fourthly, in many countries, students merely don't care about that particular test, and just brush it off as a chore. My country performs low on that one for this exact reason. And having recent experience from my education system, and the period during which this is conducted, I'll have to inform you that all students, without exception, just casually answer whatever comes to their head, finish the test, and then do their homework assigned by their teachers in their own education system. Because I, as a Greek student, will give priority to ancient Greek, Essay, Mathematics, Chemistry and Biology, which have a much more advanced and difficult for a teenager subject matter, than to PISA testing.

Again, I propose taking actual psychometric testing into consideration. Which should be taken by the biggest possible population sample, and to represent as many age groups as possible.

[Supercomputer]

From my research i noticed PISA provides a massive bunch of data. You can find excel files with litteraly everything about scores and conditions, here is for 2015 for example : https://www.oecd.org/pisa/data/2015database/ in section compendia, choose the questionnaire items, then in the folder chose one file with "stu" in the name, then in the file look for "immig"

Where can I find non immigrants scores for all years (2000 - 2022) for a given country? Also where can I find regional differences data for a given country?

[Scarface F]

source for Croatia?

[Scarface F]

No, you didn't.

Plus, this study is way more accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/x5jwD4I.jpg



It's not because it makes it seem entire ex-Yugoslavia has high score and 103.6 was result of Croats from Zagreb only.

[Supercomputer]

You cannot judge the intelligence of an entire population just by one age group. .

This is laughingly incorrect. Even if there was some truth to it, it still wouldn't matter as all countries test their 15 yearolds, so it's apples to apples comparison.

The questions are indeed basically IQ tests. You can check PISA questions yourself:
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

Here are some articles about PISA and weather they measure specific ability or general intelligence:

http://www.v-weiss.de/calibration.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355170136_How_much_do_students'_scores_in_PISA_ref lect_general_intelligence_and_how_much_do_they_ref lect_specific_abilities

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358533470_How_it_was_gradually_discovered_that_PIS A_tests_and_IQ_tests_give_almost_identical_results


Psychometricians working on International Large Scale Assessments (ILSAs) typically specify latent ability factors with distinct and correlated constructs for test domains, such as reading, mathematics and science. A construct for general ability is not specified. However, several country-specific studies conclude that ILSAs largely reflect general ability. We extend such studies and examine the dimensionality of the 2018 PISA assessment in 33 OECD countries examining three models: three-dimensional IRT model, the bifactor IRT model and the bifactor (S-1) IRT model. A four-tiered approach was adopted. First, models were compared using an information criterion (AIC). Second, the correlations from the multidimensional model were estimated to assess in which countries the three dimensions are sufficient discriminant validity. Third, a variety of bifactor indices were utilized to establish the explanatory power and reliabilities of the latent dimensions generated by the three models. Finally, the statistical relationships between the latent factors derived from the three models and educationally relevant covariates were estimated. The bifactor model fits the data better than standard multidimensional model or S-1 model in every country investigated. The correlations in the correlated factor model are above 0.8 in all 33 countries. The symmetrical bifactor general ability model shows that 80%, or more, of the common variance in student responses to the PISA instruments is accounted for by a general ability factor. On average, 27% of variance in the mathematics items is independent of the general factor and can be attributed to a specific mathematics ability factor. The respective estimates for reading are 12% and science is 17%. Relationships for selected covariates with the PISA domains follow the same pattern as general ability in the bifactor model.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289622000344

So it appears, reading is the best measure of general inteligence, followed by science and ten math, but even math is overwhelmingly (73%) measure of general intelligence.


China lets only it's big cities participate, but they are labelled as cities, not whole China accordingly so I don't see it is an issue.


Fourthly, in many countries, students merely don't care about that particular test, and just brush it off as a chore. My country performs low on that one for this exact reason

Any evidence for this claim? Every country could say this.

Why is it only people form relatively low scoring countries that say PISA don't matter? Reminds me of India who was too buthurt for it's 2009 score they cried bias ;)

[tita]

This is laughingly incorrect. Even if there was some truth to it, it still wouldn't matter as all countries test their 15 yearolds, so it's apples to apples comparison.

The questions are indeed basically IQ tests. You can check PISA questions yourself:
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

Here are some articles about PISA and weather they measure specific ability or general intelligence:

http://www.v-weiss.de/calibration.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355170136_How_much_do_students'_scores_in_PISA_ref lect_general_intelligence_and_how_much_do_they_ref lect_specific_abilities

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358533470_How_it_was_gradually_discovered_that_PIS A_tests_and_IQ_tests_give_almost_identical_results




https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289622000344

So it appears, reading is the best measure of general inteligence, followed by science and ten math, but even math is overwhelmingly (73%) measure of general intelligence.


China lets only it's big cities participate, but they are labelled as cities, not whole China accordingly so I don't see it is an issue.



Any evidence for this claim? Every country could say this.

Why is it only people form relatively low scoring countries that say PISA don't matter? Reminds me of India who was too buthurt for it's 2009 score they cried bias ;)

I saw a study once where the gap in iq points between whites and blacks were bigger at 20 than at 15 so...

[tita]

Where can I find non immigrants scores for all years (2000 - 2022) for a given country? Also where can I find regional differences data for a given country?

The file i told you contains every countries... You just have to find the same page but from a different year. I don't know about regionnal data, but probably you would fin it in compendia section too i don't know...

[Petalpusher]

I saw a study once where the gap in iq points between whites and blacks were bigger at 20 than at 15 so...

That's expected since blacks have a 1 to 3 years jump for puberty and in overall developpement but peak earlier both physically and mentally. Again related to r and K strategies that exist to some extent even within the human species, with reproductive maturity taking longer in whites (K). European male brains are only halfway developped at age of 15... Females a bit faster, like 60-70%, and possibly Asians too since they have a different bell curve.

[tita]

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Black-Americans-Reduce-the-Racial-IQ-Gap-Dickens-Flynn/fbec957fd646c8e99a7e71166f478ff4fc3586ca/figure/3

[tita]

Also it could be relevant to make iq fit with the DNA data, here i made it with the PISA results + severals iq studies https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19SG8PKkkb3xlXizKoNzN_-xurdfwdVJQPqzvoeNzjog/edit?usp=sharing

I assigned an iq to every admixtures, to calculate an ethnic group iq, i take every admixtures percentage that i multiply by the linked iq, i sum every results and divide by 100.

But yes, next to the idea that this method could or not give any real facts, PISA scores are from 15yo students and iqs gaps can change a lot at adult age

[Zeno]

This is laughingly incorrect. Even if there was some truth to it, it still wouldn't matter as all countries test their 15 yearolds, so it's apples to apples comparison.

The questions are indeed basically IQ tests. You can check PISA questions yourself:
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/

Here are some articles about PISA and weather they measure specific ability or general intelligence:

http://www.v-weiss.de/calibration.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355170136_How_much_do_students'_scores_in_PISA_ref lect_general_intelligence_and_how_much_do_they_ref lect_specific_abilities

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358533470_How_it_was_gradually_discovered_that_PIS A_tests_and_IQ_tests_give_almost_identical_results




https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289622000344

So it appears, reading is the best measure of general inteligence, followed by science and ten math, but even math is overwhelmingly (73%) measure of general intelligence.


China lets only it's big cities participate, but they are labelled as cities, not whole China accordingly so I don't see it is an issue.



Any evidence for this claim? Every country could say this.

Why is it only people form relatively low scoring countries that say PISA don't matter? Reminds me of India who was too buthurt for it's 2009 score they cried bias ;)

Well, these tackle quite a lot of the issues I mentioned before:

https://www.sstuwa.org.au/research/question-mark-over-accuracy-and-reliability-pisa-tests

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/12/03/expert-how-pisa-created-an-illusion-education-quality-marketed-it-world/

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264273856-5-en.pdf?expires=1703256455&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=1F958F119973C1B71CB6A69C95CDA6D5

For my country specifically, as shown in the tables of the third link, the students of the Greek education system are some of the unhappiest and most disengaged from school, and some of the unhappiest in terms of their life in general, with a parallel finding of increased school-work related anxiety, which is way higher than the higher-scoring countries in the test. That results in greater neglect for the PISA and the questions it promotes for "general abilities", and a much greater stress to fulfill the homework that teachers assign to their students, which is not concentrated on critical thinking, but on mechanical solutions.

Then, it's the issue of effort: in the first article that I linked it cites this survey by the Australian Council of Educational Research, (https://research.acer.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=snapshots) which shows quite clearly, that of all the participant 15 year olds, only 56% invested actual effort to completing the test. The percentage of the participant students who would invest high efforts if the PISA test was included in their school marks skyrocketed to 91%. So, if there's actual effort from the children, that's going to be if they're given the incentive that it's going to count in their grades.

As for my country, there's OECD data, which show Greek students gave some of the least effort into the evaluation process, especially compared to higher-ranking nations. (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/04fd5153-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/04fd5153-en) When you don't invest the effort needed, you will of course not score as much as you want, because the OECD itself mentions, you will not focus as much as it's needed to answer questions, and skip many of them, or even, as reported in many countries, to merely "straightline" the answers.

All these tendencies generally worsened in 2022 (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/cf9910a0-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/cf9910a0-en)

For China, it's laughable that you say they're represented as cities, while the OECD clearly groups all of them under China. There's this undisputed fact: China only selects very particular provinces, the first-tier ones, excluding all the rest, and thus not being representative for all of the country.

[Svevlad]

It's very simple. Sampling, the way tests are done, etc etc. PISA here is a joke because the instant everyone hears that it is of no consequence, they just half-ass it and go home. If you were to tell students it will be used in ethnic dick measuring contests, they'd actually do it. Then there's the fact that there isn't even a really unified population here - there is no Bell curve, but at least 5.

Anyways, it's a trivial thing. An average IQ of 100 isn't actually good, and simply betrays a lack of ambition. It means that HALF of your population are retards (sub 90s are useless). Therefore - eugenics and be done with it. Perhaps even gene modding.

[Oghuz]

What we measure right now through IQ tests is a highly variable and environmentally dependent quantity which I am afraid a socio-psychologist can explain better than me. How do these tests create a sample volume of people? If the same group of people undergoes rigorous training for the said tests and their scores improve, then what becomes of the entire theory of IQ is related to geography and race?

Unless we have an actual way of measuring synaptic density, the concentration of types of neurotransmitters, imaging up the neuron networks at molecular levels (there could be 50+ such molecular descriptors) then normalizing this data, running a PCA model on it to create one scoring function, we just can not rate an individual. In the near future with advancements in NMR/MRI techniques, such neuro measurements will become more and more possible. Right now IQ tests are pseudoscientific, actual neuromolecular metrics are not.

[Supercomputer]

Well, these tackle quite a lot of the issues I mentioned before:

https://www.sstuwa.org.au/research/question-mark-over-accuracy-and-reliability-pisa-tests

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/12/03/expert-how-pisa-created-an-illusion-education-quality-marketed-it-world/

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264273856-5-en.pdf?expires=1703256455&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=1F958F119973C1B71CB6A69C95CDA6D5

For my country specifically, as shown in the tables of the third link, the students of the Greek education system are some of the unhappiest and most disengaged from school, and some of the unhappiest in terms of their life in general, with a parallel finding of increased school-work related anxiety, which is way higher than the higher-scoring countries in the test. That results in greater neglect for the PISA and the questions it promotes for "general abilities", and a much greater stress to fulfill the homework that teachers assign to their students, which is not concentrated on critical thinking, but on mechanical solutions.

Then, it's the issue of effort: in the first article that I linked it cites this survey by the Australian Council of Educational Research, (https://research.acer.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=snapshots) which shows quite clearly, that of all the participant 15 year olds, only 56% invested actual effort to completing the test. The percentage of the participant students who would invest high efforts if the PISA test was included in their school marks skyrocketed to 91%. So, if there's actual effort from the children, that's going to be if they're given the incentive that it's going to count in their grades.

As for my country, there's OECD data, which show Greek students gave some of the least effort into the evaluation process, especially compared to higher-ranking nations. (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/04fd5153-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/04fd5153-en) When you don't invest the effort needed, you will of course not score as much as you want, because the OECD itself mentions, you will not focus as much as it's needed to answer questions, and skip many of them, or even, as reported in many countries, to merely "straightline" the answers.

All these tendencies generally worsened in 2022 (https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/cf9910a0-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/cf9910a0-en)

For China, it's laughable that you say they're represented as cities, while the OECD clearly groups all of them under China. There's this undisputed fact: China only selects very particular provinces, the first-tier ones, excluding all the rest, and thus not being representative for all of the country.

Sorry I don't buy these excuses "my country isn't good only because of XYZ". These only come from anti racist idiots who would never accept some ethnic groups outperform others and from people who come from low scoring countries. If your students are too lazy to complete the test, then they don't deserve to have high score. You could say that to every IQ test. "Blacks only score lower because they don't make an effort" etc. Sound to me like excuses.

OECD clearly lists only major cities in China, IDK what you are talking about. There is no confusion.