View Full Version : Šokac Croat DNA results!
Finally, I received results from elderly Šokac woman who married into my Island and is close family friend.
This is first Šokac result available online to my knowledge.
Šokci are subgroup of Croats native to the Panonnian Plain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/5d/47/ae/5d47aef942544eca629ebde1bc92f1a1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rPooYX2yB8
Her ancestry is entirely rural and coming from these 2 villages in eastern Slavonia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka,_Osijek-Baranja_County
and Beketinci, inside this municipality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cepin
Her DNA results are super Slavic!!
https://i.imgur.com/PYL64Xo.png
Eurogenes K13
Admix Results (sorted):
1 Baltic 40.07
2 North_Atlantic 27.46
3 West_Med 13.29
4 West_Asian 8.19
5 East_Med 7.85
6 Red_Sea 2.45
7 Siberian 0.31
8 Amerindian 0.3
9 Oceanian 0.05
10 Northeast_African 0.04
Single Population Sharing:
1 Ukrainian_Lviv 3.69
2 Croatian 4.24
3 South_Polish 4.92
4 Ukrainian 5.06
5 Moldavian 7.33
6 Polish 7.56
7 Southwest_Russian 8.6
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.75
9 Hungarian 9.01
10 Russian_Smolensk 9.54
11 Estonian_Polish 10.32
12 Belorussian 10.96
13 East_German 11.48
14 Austrian 12.51
15 Kargopol_Russian 13.28
16 Serbian 13.38
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.86
18 Estonian 15.01
19 Lithuanian 15.16
20 Erzya 15.25
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 70.9% Croatian + 29.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.76
2 82.6% Polish + 17.4% Central_Greek @ 1.93
3 79.9% Croatian + 20.1% Lithuanian @ 1.94
4 72.2% Polish + 27.8% Bulgarian @ 1.95
5 74.4% Croatian + 25.6% Belorussian @ 2.04
6 54.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 45.2% Croatian @ 2.04
7 73.2% Croatian + 26.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.05
8 69.7% Croatian + 30.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.05
9 50.8% Moldavian + 49.2% Polish @ 2.1
10 66.4% Croatian + 33.6% Polish @ 2.13
11 87.2% Polish + 12.8% Cyprian @ 2.14
12 79.3% Polish + 20.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.15
13 83.2% Polish + 16.8% East_Sicilian @ 2.16
14 81.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 18.4% Serbian @ 2.16
15 84.4% Polish + 15.6% South_Italian @ 2.17
16 69.6% Croatian + 30.4% Southwest_Russian @ 2.18
17 86.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.5% Bulgarian @ 2.19
18 58.7% Russian_Smolensk + 41.3% Serbian @ 2.2
19 85.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 14.8% Romanian @ 2.21
20 70.1% Polish + 29.9% Romanian @ 2.22
Eurogenes K15
Admix Results (sorted):
1 Baltic 24.67
2 North_Sea 21.14
3 Eastern_Euro 16.81
4 Atlantic 16.02
5 West_Med 9.15
6 West_Asian 6.05
7 East_Med 4.52
8 Red_Sea 1.63
Single Population Sharing:
1 South_Polish 3.95
2 Ukrainian_Lviv 4
3 Croatian 4.01
4 Ukrainian 4.59
5 Moldavian 6.11
6 Hungarian 6.49
7 Polish 6.79
8 Russian_Smolensk 8.22
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.72
10 Southwest_Russian 9.05
11 Austrian 9.15
12 East_German 9.62
13 Belorussian 10.12
14 Estonian_Polish 10.22
15 Serbian 11.78
16 Estonian 11.94
17 Southwest_Finnish 12.67
18 Finnish 12.76
19 Kargopol_Russian 12.93
20 Lithuanian 13.52
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 53.9% Croatian + 46.1% Ukrainian @ 1.58
2 62% South_Polish + 38% Moldavian @ 1.59
3 87.1% South_Polish + 12.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.61
4 50.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 49.9% Croatian @ 1.65
5 76.7% South_Polish + 23.3% Serbian @ 1.76
6 80.2% South_Polish + 19.8% Romanian @ 1.77
7 89.7% South_Polish + 10.3% Central_Greek @ 1.77
8 52.9% Moldavian + 47.1% Polish @ 1.79
9 90% South_Polish + 10% East_Sicilian @ 1.79
10 88.6% South_Polish + 11.4% Tuscan @ 1.8
11 50.5% South_Polish + 49.5% Croatian @ 1.87
12 90.8% South_Polish + 9.2% South_Italian @ 1.88
13 89.6% South_Polish + 10.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.88
14 89.7% South_Polish + 10.3% Ashkenazi @ 1.9
15 73.5% Ukrainian + 26.5% Serbian @ 1.9
16 82.9% South_Polish + 17.1% Bulgarian @ 1.92
17 91.7% South_Polish + 8.3% Italian_Jewish @ 1.95
18 88.1% South_Polish + 11.9% Greek @ 1.96
19 77.5% Ukrainian + 22.5% Romanian @ 1.99
20 90.2% South_Polish + 9.8% West_Sicilian @ 2
Dodecad K12b
Admix Results (sorted):
1 North_European 50.11
2 Atlantic_Med 25.31
3 Caucasus 19.19
4 Gedrosia 3.01
5 Southwest_Asian 2.1
6 South_Asian 0.29
Single Population Sharing:
1 Hungarians (Behar) 3.79
2 German (Dodecad) 11.8
3 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 14.34
4 Polish (Dodecad) 14.4
5 Romanians (Behar) 15.77
6 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 16.45
7 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 17.6
8 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 17.69
9 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 19.02
10 Swedish (Dodecad) 19.03
11 Belorussian (Behar) 19.33
12 Dutch (Dodecad) 19.67
13 Russian (Dodecad) 19.78
14 Russian_B (Behar) 19.87
15 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 20.5
16 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.76
17 Russian (HGDP) 22.14
18 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.37
19 English (Dodecad) 22.61
20 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.63
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 53.3% Lithuanians (Behar) + 46.7% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 1.99
2 62.8% Belorussian (Behar) + 37.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.18
3 56.4% Lithuanian (Dodecad) + 43.6% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.28
4 56% Lithuanian (Dodecad) + 44% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.29
5 67% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 33% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.32
6 52.8% Lithuanians (Behar) + 47.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.32
7 63.2% Belorussian (Behar) + 36.8% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.37
8 69% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 31% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.39
9 60% Belorussian (Behar) + 40% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.47
10 69.9% Polish (Dodecad) + 30.1% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.53
11 67.1% Polish (Dodecad) + 32.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.61
12 70.7% Polish (Dodecad) + 29.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.66
13 66.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 33.4% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.68
14 59.4% Russian_B (Behar) + 40.6% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.7
15 61.5% Russian_B (Behar) + 38.5% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.77
16 67% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 33% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.82
17 63.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 36.1% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.82
18 69.6% Polish (Dodecad) + 30.4% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.86
19 85.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.93
20 62.2% Belorussian (Behar) + 37.8% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.95
70.9% Croatian + 29.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.76
Indeed amazing.
70.9% Croatian + 29.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.76
Indeed amazing.
I always suspected they should be most Slavic shifted Croatian group, their folk culture and customs are most typical Slavic out of all Croats but not like this!
Incredible, can't wait to show this lady her results!
I always suspected they should be most Slavic shifted Croatian group, their folk culture and customs are most typical Slavic out of all Croats but not like this!
Incredible, can't wait to show this lady her results!
I guess that concerns Osijek-Baranja as a whole, doesn't it?
Updated K13 Vahaduo
Distance to: Manda
4.07433430 Ukrainian_Lviv
5.20190685 Slovak
5.27103405 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
5.52410174 South_Polish
5.62502444 Ukrainian
6.64690153 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
6.83583611 Hungarian_Northern
7.32493003 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
7.44833538 Croat_Croatia_Central
7.48725584 Czech
7.52884067 Slovenian
7.70538124 Sorb_Lusatia
8.05280225 Hungarian_Alfold
8.20237770 Moldova_North
8.60099413 Polish
8.66333077 Croat_Croatia
8.83805974 Croat
8.85653431 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia
8.99151215 Hungarian
9.17916663 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
9.26140778 Hungarian_Budapest
9.47535751 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
9.57763541 Southwest_Russian
9.80804772 Ukrainian_Belgorod
9.96746708 Cossacks_Kuban
She even more north shifted/Slavic than Universe LOL!
Target: Manda
Distance: 2.0234% / 2.02339208 | ADC: 0.25x
69.6 Ukrainian_Lviv
13.6 Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia
10.2 Croat_Croatia_Istria&Kvarner
5.8 South_Polish
0.8 Pomak_Kavala
Scandal
08-21-2020, 08:47 AM
Finally, I received results from elderly Šokac woman who married into my Island and is close family friend.
This is first Šokac result available online to my knowledge.
Šokci are subgroup of Croats native to the Panonnian Plain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/5d/47/ae/5d47aef942544eca629ebde1bc92f1a1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rPooYX2yB8
Her ancestry is entirely rural and coming from these 2 villages in eastern Slavonia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka,_Osijek-Baranja_County
and Beketinci, inside this municipality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cepin
Her DNA results are super Slavic!!
https://i.imgur.com/PYL64Xo.png
Eurogenes K13
Admix Results (sorted):
1 Baltic 40.07
2 North_Atlantic 27.46
3 West_Med 13.29
4 West_Asian 8.19
5 East_Med 7.85
6 Red_Sea 2.45
7 Siberian 0.31
8 Amerindian 0.3
9 Oceanian 0.05
10 Northeast_African 0.04
Single Population Sharing:
1 Ukrainian_Lviv 3.69
2 Croatian 4.24
3 South_Polish 4.92
4 Ukrainian 5.06
5 Moldavian 7.33
6 Polish 7.56
7 Southwest_Russian 8.6
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.75
9 Hungarian 9.01
10 Russian_Smolensk 9.54
11 Estonian_Polish 10.32
12 Belorussian 10.96
13 East_German 11.48
14 Austrian 12.51
15 Kargopol_Russian 13.28
16 Serbian 13.38
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.86
18 Estonian 15.01
19 Lithuanian 15.16
20 Erzya 15.25
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 70.9% Croatian + 29.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.76
2 82.6% Polish + 17.4% Central_Greek @ 1.93
3 79.9% Croatian + 20.1% Lithuanian @ 1.94
4 72.2% Polish + 27.8% Bulgarian @ 1.95
5 74.4% Croatian + 25.6% Belorussian @ 2.04
6 54.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 45.2% Croatian @ 2.04
7 73.2% Croatian + 26.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.05
8 69.7% Croatian + 30.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.05
9 50.8% Moldavian + 49.2% Polish @ 2.1
10 66.4% Croatian + 33.6% Polish @ 2.13
11 87.2% Polish + 12.8% Cyprian @ 2.14
12 79.3% Polish + 20.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.15
13 83.2% Polish + 16.8% East_Sicilian @ 2.16
14 81.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 18.4% Serbian @ 2.16
15 84.4% Polish + 15.6% South_Italian @ 2.17
16 69.6% Croatian + 30.4% Southwest_Russian @ 2.18
17 86.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 13.5% Bulgarian @ 2.19
18 58.7% Russian_Smolensk + 41.3% Serbian @ 2.2
19 85.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 14.8% Romanian @ 2.21
20 70.1% Polish + 29.9% Romanian @ 2.22
Eurogenes K15
Admix Results (sorted):
1 Baltic 24.67
2 North_Sea 21.14
3 Eastern_Euro 16.81
4 Atlantic 16.02
5 West_Med 9.15
6 West_Asian 6.05
7 East_Med 4.52
8 Red_Sea 1.63
Single Population Sharing:
1 South_Polish 3.95
2 Ukrainian_Lviv 4
3 Croatian 4.01
4 Ukrainian 4.59
5 Moldavian 6.11
6 Hungarian 6.49
7 Polish 6.79
8 Russian_Smolensk 8.22
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.72
10 Southwest_Russian 9.05
11 Austrian 9.15
12 East_German 9.62
13 Belorussian 10.12
14 Estonian_Polish 10.22
15 Serbian 11.78
16 Estonian 11.94
17 Southwest_Finnish 12.67
18 Finnish 12.76
19 Kargopol_Russian 12.93
20 Lithuanian 13.52
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 53.9% Croatian + 46.1% Ukrainian @ 1.58
2 62% South_Polish + 38% Moldavian @ 1.59
3 87.1% South_Polish + 12.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.61
4 50.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 49.9% Croatian @ 1.65
5 76.7% South_Polish + 23.3% Serbian @ 1.76
6 80.2% South_Polish + 19.8% Romanian @ 1.77
7 89.7% South_Polish + 10.3% Central_Greek @ 1.77
8 52.9% Moldavian + 47.1% Polish @ 1.79
9 90% South_Polish + 10% East_Sicilian @ 1.79
10 88.6% South_Polish + 11.4% Tuscan @ 1.8
11 50.5% South_Polish + 49.5% Croatian @ 1.87
12 90.8% South_Polish + 9.2% South_Italian @ 1.88
13 89.6% South_Polish + 10.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.88
14 89.7% South_Polish + 10.3% Ashkenazi @ 1.9
15 73.5% Ukrainian + 26.5% Serbian @ 1.9
16 82.9% South_Polish + 17.1% Bulgarian @ 1.92
17 91.7% South_Polish + 8.3% Italian_Jewish @ 1.95
18 88.1% South_Polish + 11.9% Greek @ 1.96
19 77.5% Ukrainian + 22.5% Romanian @ 1.99
20 90.2% South_Polish + 9.8% West_Sicilian @ 2
Dodecad K12b
Admix Results (sorted):
1 North_European 50.11
2 Atlantic_Med 25.31
3 Caucasus 19.19
4 Gedrosia 3.01
5 Southwest_Asian 2.1
6 South_Asian 0.29
Single Population Sharing:
1 Hungarians (Behar) 3.79
2 German (Dodecad) 11.8
3 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 14.34
4 Polish (Dodecad) 14.4
5 Romanians (Behar) 15.77
6 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 16.45
7 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 17.6
8 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 17.69
9 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 19.02
10 Swedish (Dodecad) 19.03
11 Belorussian (Behar) 19.33
12 Dutch (Dodecad) 19.67
13 Russian (Dodecad) 19.78
14 Russian_B (Behar) 19.87
15 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 20.5
16 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.76
17 Russian (HGDP) 22.14
18 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.37
19 English (Dodecad) 22.61
20 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.63
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 53.3% Lithuanians (Behar) + 46.7% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 1.99
2 62.8% Belorussian (Behar) + 37.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.18
3 56.4% Lithuanian (Dodecad) + 43.6% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.28
4 56% Lithuanian (Dodecad) + 44% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.29
5 67% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 33% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.32
6 52.8% Lithuanians (Behar) + 47.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.32
7 63.2% Belorussian (Behar) + 36.8% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.37
8 69% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 31% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.39
9 60% Belorussian (Behar) + 40% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.47
10 69.9% Polish (Dodecad) + 30.1% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.53
11 67.1% Polish (Dodecad) + 32.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.61
12 70.7% Polish (Dodecad) + 29.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.66
13 66.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 33.4% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.68
14 59.4% Russian_B (Behar) + 40.6% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.7
15 61.5% Russian_B (Behar) + 38.5% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.77
16 67% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 33% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.82
17 63.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 36.1% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.82
18 69.6% Polish (Dodecad) + 30.4% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.86
19 85.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.93
20 62.2% Belorussian (Behar) + 37.8% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.95
https://media.tenor.com/images/806e5bc924885b00c0a00682bf874a22/tenor.gif
Scandal
08-21-2020, 08:50 AM
I didn't understand the Irish/Welsh/Scottish in my case either, it's prolly just bollocks. According to myheritage tests 50% of hungarians are partially ashkenazi or something.
I guess that concerns Osijek-Baranja as a whole, doesn't it?
It's very mixed nowadays, Slavonia was repopulated after WW2 and expulsion of Swabians with Croats from dinaric Alps (Herzegovina, Dalmatia etc)
Šokci represent most autochtonous Croat group in Panonnia but even they are believed to settle there during Ottoman times from Bosnia.
Probably in Slavonia today Šokac Croats (natives) are minority.
I didn't understand the Irish/Welsh/Scottish in my case either, it's prolly just bollocks. According to myheritage tests 50% of hungarians are partially ashkenazi or something.
May be Celtic substratum? I am still shocked by her DNA results, haha!
I didn't understand the Irish/Welsh/Scottish in my case either, it's prolly just bollocks. According to myheritage tests 50% of hungarians are partially ashkenazi or something.
She is similar to you and your Hungarian relative on GEDmatch. But your ancestral places are more Northern, closer to Ukraine than hers.
some famous Šokac Croat footballers
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/sep-2001-portrait-of-goran-vlaovic-of-croatia-prior-to-the-fifa-2002-picture-id961303
https://img.fcbayern.com/image/fetch/f_auto,h_880,q_auto:good,w_660/https://fcbayern.com/binaries/content/gallery/museum/veranstaltungen/matchday-special/ivicaolic_imago40407242h.jpg/ivicaolic_imago40407242h.jpg/fcbhippo%3Alargeninetotwelve%3Fv%3D1573115684143
https://static.jutarnji.hr/images/slike/2020/07/06/k_4553947_640.jpg
https://republika.eu/upload/images/00000republika/vida_docek-170718-52.jpg
She is similar to you and your Hungarian relative on GEDmatch. But your ancestral places are more Northern, closer to Ukraine than hers.
Interestingly Universe is from south-eastern Hungary as far as I know, it's not too far from Osijek-Baranya county but bit more (north)east.
K12b updated
Distance to: Manda
4.15914655 Hungarians
6.59508150 Slovak
6.73397357 Slovenian
7.32230838 Croat
8.06076919 Bosnian
8.80045453 Ukrainian
9.14198556 R.Moldova_Centre+North
9.50619798 Sorb_Lusatia
10.77005571 PL_Mazovia
10.81677863 Rus_Smolensk
11.60066377 Rus_Kostroma
11.74160977 Belorussian
12.01985857 Serb
12.17223069 HUN_Szekely
13.02322925 German
13.43718348 Rus_Tver
13.80927587 Southwest_Rus
15.68294615 Montenegrin
16.28618433 Bavarian_German
17.33506562 Romanians
17.77910571 Macedonian
17.90435701 Mixed_Slav
18.32170571 Pomak
19.36838919 Bulgarian
19.50012051 Bulgarians
Target: Manda
Distance: 1.7256% / 1.72557934
63.0 PL_Mazovia
26.6 Bulgarians
5.2 Mixed_Slav
4.0 Sardinian
1.2 Adygei
Interestingly Universe is from south-eastern Hungary as far as I know, it's not too far from Osijek-Baranya county but bit more (north)east.
Ah, my bad. I confused him with Hungarian master (whose GM we haven't seen yet and prolly never will).
MDLP K16 modern
Admix Results (sorted):
1 NorthEastEuropean 28.9
2 Caucasian 26.49
3 Neolithic 22.83
4 Steppe 18.09
5 NearEast 2.47
6 Indian 1.21
Single Population Sharing:
1 Hungarian (Budapest) 3.29
2 Hungarian (Hungary) 3.98
3 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 3.98
4 Croat (Croatia) 4.15
5 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.93
6 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.93
7 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 5.01
8 Slovak (Slovakia) 5.06
9 Slovenian (Slovenia) 5.39
10 Pole (Wroclaw) 5.41
11 Ukrainian (Ukraine) 5.45
12 Ukrainians_west (WestUkraine) 5.64
13 Pole (EastPoland) 5.64
14 Czech (Czechia) 5.67
15 Pole (WestPoland) 6.3
16 Russian (SouthRussia) 6.38
17 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 6.4
18 Sorb (Lusatia) 6.47
19 Belarusian_West (WestBelarus) 6.51
20 Ukrainians_north (NorthUkraine) 6.88
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 52% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) + 48% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.13
2 60.7% Lithuanian (Lithuania) + 39.3% Greek (Greece) @ 2.24
3 69.5% Belarusian (Belarus) + 30.5% Greek (Peloponnes) @ 2.29
4 52.6% Macedonian (Macedonia) + 47.4% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.33
5 57.2% Belarusian (Belarus) + 42.8% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.34
6 69% Belarusian (Belarus) + 31% Greek (Greece) @ 2.36
7 57% Lithuanian (Lithuania) + 43% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.45
8 60.5% Lithuanian (Lithuania) + 39.5% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.46
9 63.8% Latvian_Dobele (Dobele) + 36.2% Greek (Greece) @ 2.47
10 69% Belarusian (Belarus) + 31% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.52
11 56.7% Belarusian (Belarus) + 43.3% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.53
12 65.8% Belarusian (Belarus) + 34.2% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.55
13 72.3% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) + 27.7% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.57
14 56.6% Belarusian (Belarus) + 43.4% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 2.57
15 70.1% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) + 29.9% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 2.58
16 52.6% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) + 47.4% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 2.59
17 88.2% Pole (WestPoland) + 11.8% Jew (Georgia) @ 2.59
18 64.3% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) + 35.7% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.61
19 63.2% Belarusian (Belarus) + 36.8% Gagauz (Gagauzia) @ 2.61
20 76.5% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) + 23.5% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 2.62
Ah, my bad. I confused him with Hungarian master (whose GM we haven't seen yet and prolly never will).
Yeah too bad (and that's really weird), because he would probably be similar to Universe and this woman genetically.
Scandal
08-21-2020, 09:12 AM
She even more north shifted/Slavic than Universe LOL!
I am not sure about that. She has more southern genes than I do. She scores more east med, more west asian and west med than I do. I don't know why her vahaduo looks more slavic.
My k13:
https://i.imgur.com/301zzSV.jpg
If somebody is interested in any other calc, just say.
I am not sure about that. She has more southern genes than I do. She scores more east med, more west asian and west med than I do. I don't know why her vahaduo looks more slavic.
My k13:
https://i.imgur.com/301zzSV.jpg
I'd say because your east med is little high for such north/slav shifted guy, her is lower and instead has higher west asian which is more northernly component?
west asian peaks in georgia/abkhazia, east med in levant.
Did you try to model her K13 with other people? :D
Scandal
08-21-2020, 09:19 AM
Indeed, she has less east_med than me, I overlooked that.
Scandal
08-21-2020, 09:24 AM
Give me screenshot of her k13 Admixture proportions or her k13 coordinates
This is her score on K13 model I made with ancient samples:
Target: Manda
Distance: 3.3856% / 3.38556769
79.6 Early_Slavic
15.0 Romanized_Balkan
4.2 Early_Germanic
1.2 Eurasian_nomad
I'd try Vbnethkio ancient model too, bu sadly thread is gone.
Scandal
08-21-2020, 09:26 AM
Target: Manda
Distance: 1.9170% / 1.91704568 | ADC: 0.5x
46.2 nuti(slovak)
26.8 Max_soldo(croat)
18.4 Daos777(hohol-from-moldova)
8.6 Kostej(slovak)
Target: Manda
Distance: 1.3975% / 1.39752017 | ADC: 0.25x
29.6 Max_soldo(croat)
26.6 nuti(slovak)
18.4 Kostej(slovak)
17.8 Visar(polish)
7.4 Devil's_advocate(serb)
0.2 Peterski(polish)
Target: Manda
Distance: 0.8637% / 0.86373490
32.8 Lukasz(polish)
32.4 Decius(Serb)
8.4 Visar(polish)
7.4 Teutone(german)
6.2 Karol_friend(Czech)
5.6 SSlava(russian)
5.6 Universe(hungarian)
1.2 Dick(serb)
0.4 Dijana_Friend_of_valentins(north_macedonia)
3.70222906 Kostej(slovak)
4.15598364 nuti(slovak)
4.70067016 Daos777(hohol-from-moldova)
5.31335111 Max_soldo(croat)
6.16297818 Karol_father(slovak)
6.32543279 All(silesian)
6.91707308 Peterski(polish)
7.27863311 Incelslayer(romanian)
7.31990437 Universe(hungarian)
7.38113135 Vlatko_vukovic(bosniak)
7.39622201 Michal(polish)
7.65164035 Westcoast(croat)
7.69393917 Lemgrant(ukrainian)
7.94837090 Ph2ter(croat)
7.95956029 ph2ter_son(croat)
8.10017284 Karol_friend(Czech)
8.22072989 Natalie(Czech)
8.24773908 ph2ter_father(croat)
8.59490547 Not_a_cop_grandpa2(russian)
8.79672098 Ph2ter_wife(croat)
8.99372559 Cumansky(polish/ukrainian)
9.23298435 A-ha(ukrainian)
9.28632866 Silentkiller(russian)
9.37549999 Tschaikisten(serb)
9.45225370 Feiichy(croat)
9.47900311 Stanislav(russian/polish)
9.58093419 Lemgrant_mother(Ukrainian)
9.64942485 Visar(polish)
9.70968074 RandomGuy20(Australian)
9.77466112 Feiichy_Mother(croat)
9.77951430 Hrvoje(croat+slovene)
9.82784819 IonBasescul_mom_MyHeritage(moldovan)
9.91629971 Feiichy_Father(croat)
9.98289036 Devil's_advocate(serb)
10.01636661 SSlava(russian)
10.05416829 Stears(hungarian)
10.24888774 un4given(Croat)
10.24994634 Dimadoe(russian)
10.41582450 Zmey(moldovan)
10.56381560 Noricum(austrian)
Does she have blue eyes?
Brown. She has dark hair too (now dyes it because she is old), but very Slavic face. Looks brunet Neo-Danubian/Baltid with minor dinarid influence.
...
Thanks! I expected she would be closer to you.
BTW I checked her matches on Myheritage, lot from Czech Republic and Slovakia. Seems even rural Šokac Croats mixed with other Catholic Slavs in Slavonia trough time.
Dušan
08-21-2020, 09:43 AM
Thanks! I expected she would be closer to you.
BTW I checked her matches on Myheritage, lot from Czech Republic and Slovakia. Seems even rural Šokac Croats mixed with other Catholic Slavs in Slavonia trough time.
Is she from Našice? There are few Slovak settlements from Autro-Hungarian period.
Domagoj Vida you posted is Slovak by origin.
Is she from Našice? There are few Slovak settlements from Autro-Hungarian period.
Domagoj Vida you posted is Slovak by origin.
Vida is a Croat, his both parents are Šokac Croat but his surname exists among Hungarians and Slovaks. In the photo I posted he is wearing Šokac folk clothing BTW.
This woman is from villages Vuka and Beketinci, her both parents are Croats (with typical Šokac surname), but it wouldn't be suprising is some west Slavs assimilated among them trough history.
Dušan
08-21-2020, 10:03 AM
Vida is a Croat, his both parents are Šokac Croat but his surname exists among Hungarians and Slovaks.
This woman is from villages Vuka and Beketinci, her both parents are Croats (with typical Šokac surname), but it wouldn't be suprising is some west Slavs assimilated among them trough history.
I found on Google, that two villages neighboring Beketinci were settled with Slovaks.
Prvi stanovnici dolaze krajem 1870. - tih iz krajeva sjeverne Slovačke na poziv đakovačkog biskupa Josipa Jurja Strossmayera, a za krčenje šuma i pretvaranje u plodnu zemlju.
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josipovac_Punitova%C4%8Dki
U Jurjevac doseljavaju Slovaci 1882., godinu dana kasnije nego u Josipovac. Dolaze na poziv biskupa đakovačkog Josipa Jurja Strossmayera, a za krčenje šuma i pretvaranje u plodnu zemlju.
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurjevac_Punitova%C4%8Dki
https://i.imgur.com/FqEeuwV.png
Maybe they interemarriaged with surrounding villages.
That's entirely possible considering her DNA results and matches!
Dušan
08-21-2020, 10:10 AM
In Slavonia mixing Croats with settled Hungarians, Slovaks, Germans was quite common.
Mixing Serbs and Croats in Croatia was rare because different religion, until Tito's Yugoslavia.
17571imre
08-21-2020, 10:31 AM
very intresting results! could you also post her MDLP World oracle results?
calxpal's grandmother who is from Southwestern Ukraine is even less Northern than that woman!
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.54
2 North_Atlantic 29.96
3 West_Med 11.34
4 East_Med 8.84
5 West_Asian 6.42
6 Siberian 3.23
7 Red_Sea 1.84
8 South_Asian 1.7
9 Amerindian 0.13
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 5.17
2 Hungarian 5.8
3 South_Polish 6.1
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.54
5 Moldavian 7.55
6 Ukrainian 7.62
7 East_German 8.9
8 Austrian 9.71
9 Polish 9.72
10 Southwest_Russian 10.89
11 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.57
12 Serbian 11.75
13 Russian_Smolensk 12.03
14 Estonian_Polish 12.44
15 Belorussian 12.73
16 Southwest_Finnish 13.08
17 Kargopol_Russian 14.15
18 North_Swedish 15.01
19 Finnish 15.14
20 Estonian 15.68
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.4% Serbian + 43.6% Finnish @ 1.75
2 67.5% Estonian + 32.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.85
3 58.7% Serbian + 41.3% East_Finnish @ 1.95
4 51.2% Finnish + 48.8% Romanian @ 1.98
5 75.4% Hungarian + 24.6% Erzya @ 1.99
6 72% Hungarian + 28% Kargopol_Russian @ 2
7 57.3% Serbian + 42.7% Estonian @ 2.14
8 68.5% Estonian + 31.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.31
9 64.2% Moldavian + 35.8% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.41
10 58.5% Southwest_Finnish + 41.5% Bulgarian @ 2.42
11 50.3% Estonian + 49.7% Romanian @ 2.5
12 67% Hungarian + 33% Southwest_Russian @ 2.53
13 64.1% Finnish + 35.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.54
14 75.9% Hungarian + 24.1% East_Finnish @ 2.56
15 71% Estonian + 29% South_Italian @ 2.58
16 54.8% Finnish + 45.2% Bulgarian @ 2.58
17 70.3% Hungarian + 29.7% Estonian_Polish @ 2.69
18 65.7% Estonian + 34.3% Tuscan @ 2.7
19 55% Southwest_Finnish + 45% Romanian @ 2.8
20 73.8% Southwest_Russian + 26.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.81
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?329852-Grandma-s-23andme-results
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 11:47 AM
Finally, I received results from elderly Šokac woman who married into my Island and is close family friend.
This is first Šokac result available online to my knowledge.
Šokci are subgroup of Croats native to the Panonnian Plain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0okci
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/5d/47/ae/5d47aef942544eca629ebde1bc92f1a1.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rPooYX2yB8
Her ancestry is entirely rural and coming from these 2 villages in eastern Slavonia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuka,_Osijek-Baranja_County
and Beketinci, inside this municipality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Cepin
Her DNA results are super Slavic!!
And at the same time they look completely different from Ukrainians, while Stefan Voda people in Moldova with 20% Baltic an 20% Atlantic look more similar to them. Once again this proves that there is a faint relation between autosomal DNA and phenotypes.
Scandal
08-21-2020, 11:49 AM
And at the same time they look completely different from Ukrainians. Once again this proves that there is a faint relation between autosomal DNA and phenotypes.
I don't think she's genetically avarage among Sokac people.
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 11:57 AM
And at the same time they look completely different from Ukrainians, while Stefan Voda people in Moldova with 20% Baltic an 20% Atlantic look more similar to them. Once again this proves that there is a faint relation between autosomal DNA and phenotypes.
Just to support my argument, here are 10 Stefan Voda samples from R. Moldova collected from the mono-ethnic village of Caplani
https://i.ibb.co/41vknhR/image.png
Caplani villagers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMsjhCxVHyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jf06lCpAjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlEsIitL8nU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3ER7vqsBDc
Just to support my argument, here are 10 Stefan Voda samples from R. Moldova collected from the mono-ethnic village of Caplani
https://i.ibb.co/ZGDtKVr/image.png
Caplani villagers
They prolly look standard Romanian, don't they? That level of Baltic/North Atlantic is normal for Romania.
Scandal
08-21-2020, 12:02 PM
Just to support my argument, here are 10 Stefan Voda samples from R. Moldova collected from the mono-ethnic village of Caplani
https://i.ibb.co/41vknhR/image.png
Caplani villagers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMsjhCxVHyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jf06lCpAjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlEsIitL8nU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3ER7vqsBDc
How do you know she's genetically avarage Sokac? She could be an outlier.
very intresting results! could you also post her MDLP World oracle results?
I will! When I get home :)
And at the same time they look completely different from Ukrainians, while Stefan Voda people in Moldova with 20% Baltic an 20% Atlantic look more similar to them. Once again this proves that there is a faint relation between autosomal DNA and phenotypes.
Sorry but I doubt you have idea how Sokci Croats look.
They are most Slavic looking Croats and many pass in Ukraine easily lmao.
ShereKhan
08-21-2020, 12:07 PM
I always suspected they should be most Slavic shifted Croatian group, their folk culture and customs are most typical Slavic out of all Croats but not like this!
Incredible, can't wait to show this lady her results!
Excuse my ignorance but if she was ancestrally from Bosnia shouldn't her genetic result resemble that of my bosnian friend CommonSense?
I don't think she's genetically avarage among Sokac people.
Sadly we don't have more Sokac sample to compare. I highly doubt she's average, but such results probably aren't rare among them either.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 12:10 PM
Sorry but I doubt you have idea how Sokci Croats look.
They are most Slavic looking Croats and many pass in Ukraine easily lmao.
How come you know what they look like. I for example have no idea. As for the OP just Slavonian mixed with Slovaks, Rusyn, Czech or whatever.
Excuse my ignorance but if she was ancestrally from Bosnia shouldn't her genetic result resemble that of my bosnian friend CommonSense?
He is not from Bosnia and this woman is native to eastern Slavonia / Baranja.
How come you know what they look like. I for example have no idea. As for the OP just Slavonian mixed with Slovaks, Rusyn, Czech or whatever.
She doesn't have any known foreign ancestry. Are you mixed with Serb/Montenegrins/Vlachs or whatever?
Because your results are outlying in opposite direction and you have no foreign ancestry either.
Be more polite please.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 12:15 PM
She doesn't have any known foreign ancestry. Are you mixed with Serb/Montenegrins/Vlachs or whatever?
Probably.
Be more polite please.
What did I say? :rolleyes:
Regarding Sokci, they are very different to other Croatian subgroup in Panonnia - Bunjevci.
Their customs and phenotypes are more Slavic in comparison with Bunjevci whose origins are from dinaric alps region.
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 12:16 PM
They prolly look standard Romanian, don't they? That level of Baltic/North Atlantic is normal for Romania.
Nope, they are at the Southern end and even for Wallachians fall at the lower boundary.
https://i.ibb.co/3CWfxCS/caplani.png
Celine
08-21-2020, 12:17 PM
Can't wait to see my results.
Probably.
What did I say? :rolleyes:
Ivica Olic types are common among Sokci. They have lot of Baltids and typically Slavic looking people in comparison with later settlers to Slavonia.
Dušan
08-21-2020, 12:18 PM
She doesn't have any known foreign ancestry. Are you mixed with Serb/Montenegrins/Vlachs or whatever?
Because your results are outlying in opposite direction and you have no foreign ancestry either.
Be more polite please.
Ask her if some of her grand-grandmothers are from two neighbouring Slovak villages.
Ljubic
08-21-2020, 12:19 PM
Propably as slavic if not more than the original slavic tribes before settling into Croatia and Serbia.
Ask her if some of her grand-grandmothers are from two neighbouring Slovak villages.
Yes, I will :) But even if she doesn't know it it's pretty likely. Both groups are Catholic Slavs.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 12:21 PM
Ivica Olic types are common among Sokci. They have lot of Baltids and typically Slavic looking people in comparison with later settlers to Slavonia.
How come you know that Olic types are common? Don't tell me you judge their overall appereance based on couple of footballers.
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 12:21 PM
Sorry but I doubt you have idea how Sokci Croats look.
They are most Slavic looking Croats and many pass in Ukraine easily lmao.
I didn't even know about them before this thread and just judged from what you linked, video and photo.
Can't wait to see my results.
You should be similar to Ph2ter and his family. They are very northern too but more western than this woman (higher North Atlantic and she has higher Baltic). Makes sense since Zagorje is NW Croatia and Osijek area is NE.
I didn't even know about them before this thread and just judged from what you linked, video and photo.
Šokci live in Slavonia, Vojvodina and Hungary. They can be pretty diverse but look more east Euro than other Croats.
You should be similar to Ph2ter and his family. They are very northern too but more western than this woman (higher North Atlantic and she has higher Baltic). Makes sense since Zagorje is NW Croatia and Osijek area is NE.
She looks completely different from you. Very southern.
How come you know that Olic types are common? Don't tell me you judge their overall appereance based on couple of footballers.
I never been to Slavonia but my father has , said Sokci looked typical Slavic with light hair and round faces and Bunjevci were swarthier/more Balkan looking.
Ringenlatter Croat half was Sokac and he claimed pretty much the same.
I"ll ask this woman about their look when I see her. She looks Slavic but pretty average for older Croatian woman.
Lucas
08-21-2020, 12:28 PM
Finally, I received results from elderly Šokac woman who married into my Island and is close family friend.
This is first Šokac result available online to my knowledge.
You tested her because of unique ancestry? Great. I should do similar in Poland (I never seen pure Podhale Mountainer results for example).
Celine
08-21-2020, 12:28 PM
She looks completely different from you. Very southern.
Oh c'mon guys, not again...
I'm from NW.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 12:29 PM
ok
She looks completely different from you. Very southern.
Yeah, but she will be genetically more northern unless she is outlier. I'm pretty Med/Balkan compared to these full north Croats but don't look it.
However despite my light pigment I have more south than north Croat face. Light north Croats are usually Neo-Danubian and among Dalmatians light people can be more in Nordid direction.
Oh c'mon guys, not again...
I'm from NW.
I'm East Slavic and your looks are very Southern in my eyes, regardless of where you were born.
Celine
08-21-2020, 12:31 PM
ok
Bok bok. Nije da sam bila mjesec dana u bolnici... ali bila sam mjesec dana u bolnici. :D
You tested her because of unique ancestry? Great. I should do similar in Poland (I never seen pure Podhale Mountainer results for example).
Yeah. We lacked Slavonian samples and she is only full native Slavonian I know. I paid for test and she was suspicious at first but later agree to participate. :)
Yeah, but she will be genetically more northern unless she is outlier. I'm pretty Med/Balkan compared to these full north Croats but don't look it.
However despite my light pigment I have more south than north Croat face. Light north Croats are usually Neo-Danubian and among Dalmatians light people can be more in Nordid direction.
Well, I've never cared about such detailed terminology, so please excuse me. I just think you possibly look even more Scandinavian than Russian for example. I don't see the Med in you.
This is how she looks like
https://imgur.com/WZ4N6jZ
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 12:46 PM
Bok bok. Nije da sam bila mjesec dana u bolnici... ali bila sam mjesec dana u bolnici. :D
Korona. :p
Odgovarao sam na Feiichin post, nije mi se dalo quotat.
Celine
08-21-2020, 12:47 PM
Korona. :p
Odgovarao sam na Feiichin post, nije mi dalo quotat.
Znam da jesi.
Nije korona. :P
CommonSense
08-21-2020, 12:55 PM
Not sure how representative these results are for that subgroup of Croats, but the woman's ancestors can't have possibly come from Bosnia. The majority of them anyway.
Not sure how representative these results are for that subgroup of Croats, but the woman's ancestors can't have possibly come from Bosnia. The majority of them anyway.
Nof true. Bosniaks from NE Bosnia have highest Baltic out of all south Slavs lol.
Anyway, I don't think modern Bosnians are genetically the same as pre-Ottoman population what Sokci are.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 01:16 PM
Nof true. Bosniaks from NE Bosnia have highest Baltic out of all south Slavs lol.
Anyway, I don't think modern Bosnians are genetically the same as pre-Ottoman population what Sokci are.
Why is that? If Sokci are mixed how would you know.
Why is that? If Sokci are mixed how would you know.
Because pure Bosnian Croats like Max Soldo (who is from SW Bosnia) can be very northern shifted.
I think some Slovaks, Czechs etc likely assimilated into Sokac community but that doesn't mean they aren't from Bosnia.
She's very proud Sokac and ikavian speaker.
But, Sokci aren't from proper Bosnia either. Slavonian Sokci mostly come from Posavina and that is only today part of BIH, it's still Panonnian Plain.
I think they have no relation with dinaric region. Their customs indicate that.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 01:34 PM
Because pure Bosnian Croats like Max Soldo (who is from SW Bosnia) can be very northern shifted.
What kind of answer is that? So he is pure Bosnian Croat because he more northern? Others are not? What about bunch of samples from his area that are more southern?
But, Sokci aren't from proper Bosnia either. Slavonian Sokci mostly come from Posavina and that is only today part of BIH, it's still Panonnian Plain.
So Croats from Bosnian Posavina are only today B&H Croat? Croats from SW Bosnia are Croats only today (since allegedly most are settlers from southern Croatia)?Who are Bosnian Croats?
Apparently Sokci also came from area of Srebrenica if wikipedia is correct.
Lucas
08-21-2020, 01:36 PM
This is how she looks like
https://imgur.com/WZ4N6jZ
Gorid?
Gorid?
IMHO dinaricized Neo-Danubian, but Gorid also fits! She is naturally brown eyed brunette. Very tall though.
What kind of answer is that? So he is pure Bosnian Croat because he more northern? Others are not? What about bunch of samples from his area that are more southern?
So Croats from Bosnian Posavina are only today B&H Croat? Croats from SW Bosnia are Croats only today (since allegedly most are settlers from southern Croatia)?Who are Bosnian Croats?
Apparently Sokci also came from area of Srebrenica if wikipedia is correct.
Sokci from her area apparently come from Derventa area which is Posavina and edge of Panonnian Plain.
BiH Croats can be both like him and like you, or what?
Sokci probably have some kind of diversity as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJRSbkubiR4
vbnetkhio
08-21-2020, 01:48 PM
Nof true. Bosniaks from NE Bosnia have highest Baltic out of all south Slavs lol.
Anyway, I don't think modern Bosnians are genetically the same as pre-Ottoman population what Sokci are.
what could have changed the genetics of Bosnian Croats?
Max Soldo is the most northern shifted Bosnian Croat on a pretty large sample. and he is still just 37% Baltic.
knez01
08-21-2020, 01:52 PM
what could have changed the genetics of Bosnian Croats?
Max Soldo is the most northern shifted Bosnian Croat on a pretty large sample. and he is still just 37% Baltic.
Mixing with Serbs, Vlachs and Bosniaks, not to mention that Balkanites from South Croatia and Southern parts of B&H were more south shifted. It's reflected in their culture and way of speaking too.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 01:53 PM
Sokci from her area apparently come from Derventa area which is Posavina and edge of Panonnian Plain.
BiH Croats can be both like him and like you, or what?
Sokci probably have some kind of diversity as well.
You are too obssessed with plain names as if people are magically tied to names of specific subareas. That is because you have nothing smarter to do in your life except being obsessed with northerness, genetics and dividing people based on stupid criteria.
I probably have other ancestry. You know my story. I am sort of atypical just as lady from OP is atypical aka mixed with Slovaks. But apparently you also say that Sokci are mixed with other Pannonian groups. There was a map of ethnic groups im Slavonia. Makes you think.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 02:01 PM
Mixing with Serbs, Vlachs and Bosniaks, not to mention that Balkanites from South Croatia and Southern parts of B&H were more south shifted. It's reflected in their culture and way of speaking too.
Serbs and Bosniaks are on average similar to Bosnian and southern Croats. Do you perhaps have centuries old Croatian and Serbian samples from B&H and southern Croatia we all don't know about?:rolleyes:
You are too obssessed with plain names as if people are magically tied to names of specific subareas. That is because you have nothing smarter to do in your life except being obsessed with northerness, genetics and dividing people based on stupid criteria.
I probably have other ancestry. You know my story. I am sort of atypical just as lady from OP is atypical aka mixed with Slovaks. But apparently you also say that Sokci are mixed with other Pannonian groups. There was a map of ethnic groups im Slavonia. Makes you think.
Why are you ruining my thread?
I don't care if you feel insecure because of your southern results, I never discarded you because of them and wanted to put you in statistics if you ever bothered to post them.
You came here destroying this old lady thread and calling her mixed and whatnot. That's extremelly rude.
She is simple rural woman and if she is mixed she doesn't have any knowledge if that. Her both parents were Šokac peasants and nothing else.
I am not obsessed with northerness, please stop insulting me. You feel insecure due to your results and lash out to me.
knez01
08-21-2020, 02:08 PM
Serbs and Bosniaks are on average similar to Bosnian and southern Croats. Do you perhaps have centuries old Croatian and Serbian samples from B&H and southern Croatia we all don't know about?:rolleyes:
No, but I do have samples from Northern Croatia, and we know that northern Balkanites were much more northern shifted than dinaric Balkanites. It is also obvious that Croatians from the south are more Balkanite admixed, just like Serbs, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Bulgarians and Montenegrins. I don't understand what you are trying to say, do you think I said South Croatians aren't more south shifted on average?
I think variation can be sometimes more individual than regional. There are regional differences ofc, but people from same region can vary a lot as well.
Token
08-21-2020, 02:14 PM
What was her reaction to these results?
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 02:16 PM
What was her reaction to these results?"What does this mean?"
Sent from my Redmi 4X using Tapatalk
What was her reaction to these results?
Still didn't see them. I will show her in the evening. And I will ask her more in detail about intermarriage with neighbouring Slovaks if it happened.
She is simple woman, and very poor as well so probably she won't understand all these things we discuss.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 02:26 PM
Why are you ruining my thread?
I don't care if you feel insecure because of your southern results, I never discarded you because of them and wanted to put you in statistics if you ever bothered to post them.
You came here destroying this old lady thread and calling her mixed and whatnot. That's extremelly rude.
She is simple rural woman and if she is mixed she doesn't have any knowledge if that. Her both parents were Šokac peasants and nothing else.
I am not obsessed with northerness, please stop insulting me. You feel insecure due to your results and lash out to me.
1. I don't feel insecure. It is getting tiresome.
2. I dont care will you discard me or not
3. Women is indeed mixed with West Slavs
4. Don't sell stories about Bosnian Croat genetics or whatever and don't divide. I however don't know were those your stupid and reactionary or instead sincere thoughts.
Do you have anything smarter to do in your life other than comparing genetics from one town to another and one subarea to an other? Did you beg this grandma to do a test?xD
ShereKhan
08-21-2020, 02:27 PM
He is not from Bosnia
He is from Bosnia but lives in Serbia, or you think I have nothing better to do than lie on the internet? :icon_smile: :icon_smile: :icon_smile:
You can see one of his uncles starting 36 seconds in the video
https://youtu.be/TPKsDE4FfTg?t=36
1. I don't feel insecure. It is getting tiresome.
2. I dont care will you discard me or not
3. Women is indeed mixed with West Slavs
4. Don't sell stories about Bosnian Croat genetics or whatever and don't divide. I however don't know were those your stupid and reactionary or instead sincere thoughts.
Do you have anything smarter to so in your life other than comparing genetics from one town to another and one subarea to a other? Did you beg this grandma to do a test?xD
I reported you. Now odjebi.
knez01
08-21-2020, 02:29 PM
1. I don't feel insecure. It is getting tiresome.
2. I dont care will you discard me or not
3. Women is indeed mixed with West Slavs
4. Don't sell stories about Bosnian Croat genetics or whatever and don't divide. I however don't know were those your stupid and reactionary or instead sincere thoughts.
Do you have anything smarter to so in your life other than comparing genetics from one town to another and one subarea to a other? Did you beg this grandma to do a test?xD
What are you even trying to say man, you come in this thread and attack people just because you don't like the research they're doing on their own ethnicity? What's wrong with you lol.
He is from Bosnia but lives in Serbia, or you think I have nothing better to do than lie on the internet? :icon_smile: :icon_smile: :icon_smile:
You can see one of his uncles starting 36 seconds in the video
https://youtu.be/TPKsDE4FfTg?t=36
He is part Croat and Romanian and his ancestry is from different regions. You are sock of Inceslayer no. 1000.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 02:31 PM
Still didn't see them. I will show her in the evening. And I will ask her more in detail about intermarriage with neighbouring Slovaks if it happened.
She is simple woman, and very poor as well so probably she won't understand all these things we discuss.
Did you make her spend all of her savings on this test?xD
Did you make her spend all of her savings on this test?xD
No, I paid it from my own pocket. Now get lost idiot.
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 02:35 PM
Being bullied for spending your own money and sharing the knowledge with others for free. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/945/016/648.png
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 02:35 PM
No, I paid it from my own pocket. Now get lost idiot.
I don't know what is more pathethic.
https://i.postimg.cc/4xFvWXtD/110222f016f6109340a7552edfd889e8.jpg
What are you even trying to say man, you come in this thread and attack people just because you don't like the research they're doing on their own ethnicity? What's wrong with you lol.
Complexes. That's why he never posted his gedmatch results lol. But let him be. Topic isn't about that.
ShereKhan
08-21-2020, 02:36 PM
1. I don't feel insecure. It is getting tiresome.
2. I dont care will you discard me or not
3. Women is indeed mixed with West Slavs
4. Don't sell stories about Bosnian Croat genetics or whatever and don't divide. I however don't know were those your stupid and reactionary or instead sincere thoughts.
Do you have anything smarter to do in your life other than comparing genetics from one town to another and one subarea to an other? Did you beg this grandma to do a test?xD
Poor women, not only did she spent an important amount of money but she from now on has to live with the fact that she's not native sokaci for the rest of her life...You just know that because she's very poor her ethnic pride was all she had and Feiichy took from her even her last valuable thing she had...
Tbh I think it's better if Feiichy hides her genetic results and gives her money back, after all, she convinced her to test
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 02:38 PM
Come granny, you need to spit in this
https://i.postimg.cc/4xFvWXtD/110222f016f6109340a7552edfd889e8.jpg
Being bullied for spending your own money and sharing the knowledge with others for free. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/945/016/648.png
Well, it might have some use for me except knowledge in the end. I would love to do post graduate degree in population genetics, probably in Hungary.
I may show them research I did on Croatian genetics as amateur.
My dream is to make a paper on genetics of archipelago where my Island is located.
ShereKhan
08-21-2020, 02:42 PM
Well, it might have some use for me except knowledge in the end. I would love to do post graduate degree in population genetics, probably in Hungary.
I may show them research I did on Croatian genetics as amateur.
My dream is to make a paper on genetics of archipelago where my Island is located.
Not trying to put you down but I think that for such a post graduate degree you need to have graduated in Molecular biology or something similar, adding some coordinates in excel and pressing compute on a genetic calculator doesn't cut it , I'm not sure if they will accept that :confused:
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 02:46 PM
No, but I do have samples from Northern Croatia, and we know that northern Balkanites were much more northern shifted than dinaric Balkanites. It is also obvious that Croatians from the south are more Balkanite admixed, just like Serbs, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Bulgarians and Montenegrins. I don't understand what you are trying to say, do you think I said South Croatians aren't more south shifted on average?
You wrote that Bosnian and southern Croats mixed with Serbs, Bosniaks and Vlachs (during Ottomam era I presume?). Southern and Bosnian Croats could have been like them way before and northern Croats in the mean time could have gotten northern input.
Not trying to put you down but I think that for such a post graduate degree you need to have graduated in Molecular biology or something similar, adding some coordinates in excel and pressing compute on a genetic calculator doesn't cut it , I'm not sure if they will accept that :confused:
Maybe. I didn't seriously research it yet. But I am more interested in data analysis and putting it togheder with history than pure genetic work.
vbnetkhio
08-21-2020, 02:47 PM
Mixing with Serbs, Vlachs and Bosniaks, not to mention that Balkanites from South Croatia and Southern parts of B&H were more south shifted. It's reflected in their culture and way of speaking too.
it's hard to say just based on autosomal results...
i think Bosnian Croats just formed as less Slavic in the pre-Ottoman times already, and didn't marry that much with the other groups.
and this woman is mostly a native pre-Ottoman Slavonian imo.
knez01
08-21-2020, 02:49 PM
You wrote that Bosnian and southern Croats mixed with Serbs, Bosniaks and Vlachs (during Ottomam era I presume?). Southern and Bosnian Croats could have been like them way before and noethern Croats in the mean time got northern input.
Not necessarily, I just said that that's one of many reasons they're southern shifted, I forgot to mention Italians, which were the biggest impact in my area. The main difference between southerners and northerners is the basal Balkan population I think, but that's just speculation on my end and nobody should take that seriously.
ShereKhan
08-21-2020, 02:54 PM
Not necessarily, I just said that that's one of many reasons they're southern shifted, I forgot to mention Italians, which were the biggest impact in my area. The main difference between southerners and northerners is the basal Balkan population I think, but that's just speculation on my end and nobody should take that seriously.
I like the way you ended your paragraph, your fellow countrywoman should take this as an example.
Token
08-21-2020, 02:54 PM
Well, it might have some use for me except knowledge in the end. I would love to do post graduate degree in population genetics, probably in Hungary.
I may show them research I did on Croatian genetics as amateur.
My dream is to make a paper on genetics of archipelago where my Island is located.
You don't need a degree in genetics to do that, most of the foremost populations geneticists don't have one. Do something math or computer-related and you will be fine, the vast majority of populations genetics courses are worthless.
Not necessarily, I just said that that's one of many reasons they're southern shifted, I forgot to mention Italians, which were the biggest impact in my area. The main difference between southerners and northerners is the basal Balkan population I think, but that's just speculation on my end and nobody should take that seriously.
That's my opinion too. Baltic admixture is evenly distributed in Croatian/BiH regions from data we have, but big difference is in north Atlantic and east med scores.
I think both populations are similarly Slavic but their pre Slavic admixture is quite different.
You don't need a degree in genetics to do that, most of the foremost populations geneticists don't have one. Do something math or computer-related and you will be fine, the vast majority of populations genetics courses are worthless.
Thanks for tip! :)
knez01
08-21-2020, 03:04 PM
That's my opinion too. Baltic admixture is evenly distributed in Croatian/BiH regions from data we have, but big difference is in north Atlantic and east med scores.
I think both populations are similarly Slavic but their pre Slavic admixture is quite different.
I noticed this too, I also have a higher than average Baltic but the rest of components are way different.
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 03:06 PM
Not necessarily, I just said that that's one of many reasons they're southern shifted, I forgot to mention Italians, which were the biggest impact in my area. The main difference between southerners and northerners is the basal Balkan population I think, but that's just speculation on my end and nobody should take that seriously.
If your results are typical for Southern Croatia and ph2ter's for the Northern part, then the North to South variation in Croatia is exactly as big as in unmixed Moldovans/Romanians from R. Moldova.
For example, taking into account the sum of North Atlantic and Baltic on Eurogenes K13, there is a difference of 15% between the two of you (53% to 68%), and it's roughly the same here (from about 40% to 63%).
I wouldn't be surprised if the same range applies to Serbia, Bulgaria, etc.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 03:19 PM
Well, it might have some use for me except knowledge in the end. I would love to do post graduate degree in population genetics, probably in Hungary.
I may show them research I did on Croatian genetics as amateur.
My dream is to make a paper on genetics of archipelago where my Island is located.
Don't do that. You'll singlehandendly ruin it since it would be made based on your biased opinions.
After posting a paper to be peer reviewed, a collegue scientist asks:
What was your previous experience with population genetics?
Well sir or madame, I spent years on TA. Typing shit in excel made me feel really smart. That is also a place where I met my husband. I am hoping my son will be a future Apricitian. I had no grants, but I made old ladies spent their money just to see how northern they'll turn out to be.
https://i.postimg.cc/4xFvWXtD/110222f016f6109340a7552edfd889e8.jpg
knez01
08-21-2020, 03:20 PM
If your results are typical for Southern Croatia and ph2ter's for the Northern part, then the North to South variation in Croatia is exactly as big as in unmixed Moldovans/Romanians from R. Moldova.
For example, taking into account the sum of North Atlantic and Baltic on Eurogenes K13, there is a difference of 15% between the two of you (53% to 68%), and it's roughly the same here (from about 40% to 63%).
I wouldn't be surprised if the same range applies to Serbia, Bulgaria, etc.
It's surprising that the difference between north and south Moldovans is greater than north and south Croatians, we even have a mountain range dividing us, while you don't as far as I know.
vbnetkhio
08-21-2020, 03:29 PM
_North_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedRed _SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOceania nNortheast_AfrSub-Saharan
Slavonia25.2628.1615.7211.5115.650.670.000.311.910 .810.010.000.00
Slavonia East26.0731.8316.778.1912.183.130.000.000.760.001. 020.000.00
Slavonia Podravina 1/8 Hungarian 1/8 Gorski kotar32.3733.4514.406.379.091.600.200.241.320.590. 310.070.00
Slavonia Šokac27.4640.0713.298.197.852.450.000.000.310.300. 050.040.00
Slavonia+Lika25.8836.5711.306.7015.631.230.000.411 .210.001.040.000.00
Slavonia+Lika29.8233.5712.909.2010.631.570.000.000 .711.530.000.000.06
avg27.8133.9414.068.3611.841.780.030.161.040.540.4 10.020.01
all Slavonian Croat results posted so far, and a new average
vbnetkhio
08-21-2020, 03:33 PM
Croat_Slavonia,27.81,33.94,14.06,8.36,11.84,1.78,0 .03,0.16,1.04,0.54,0.41,0.02,0.01
Distance to: Croat_Slavonia
1.64544827 Croat_Croatia_Slavonia (the old average)
1.74625313 Croat_Croatia
1.80288657 Croat
2.49549594 Moldova_North
2.57486836 Hungarian_Alfold
2.76394645 Bosniak_Bosnia_NE&Central
2.76515822 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
3.33570083 Croat_B&H_Bosnia
3.38964600 Croat_B&H
3.49626944 Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia
3.50203396 Slovenian
3.73816419 Hungarian
3.74109610 Croat_Croatia_Central
4.00353594 Croat_Croatia_Istria&Kvarner
4.00932663 Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia
4.37679106 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
4.42768563 Serb_B&H_Bosnia_proper
4.50863616 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
4.68056557 Hungarian_Budapest
4.74655342 Bosniak_Sarajevo
4.99373608 Bosniak
5.21239868 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
5.30990132 Hungarian_Transylvania
5.37496127 Hungarian_Transdanubia
5.46686133 Hungarian_Northern
_North_AtlanticBalticWest_MedWest_AsianEast_MedRed _SeaSouth_AsianEast_AsianSiberianAmerindianOceania nNortheast_AfrSub-Saharan
Slavonia25.2628.1615.7211.5115.650.670.000.311.910 .810.010.000.00
Slavonia East26.0731.8316.778.1912.183.130.000.000.760.001. 020.000.00
Slavonia Podravina 1/8 Hungarian 1/8 Gorski kotar32.3733.4514.406.379.091.600.200.241.320.590. 310.070.00
Slavonia Šokac27.4640.0713.298.197.852.450.000.000.310.300. 050.040.00
Slavonia+Lika25.8836.5711.306.7015.631.230.000.411 .210.001.040.000.00
Slavonia+Lika29.8233.5712.909.2010.631.570.000.000 .711.530.000.000.06
avg27.8133.9414.068.3611.841.780.030.161.040.540.4 10.020.01
all Slavonian Croat results posted so far, and a new average
Thank you so much! You read my mind. I wanted to ask you that. Now I will more easily make new national average!
How do you think it should be made?
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 03:35 PM
It's surprising that the difference between north and south Moldovans is greater than north and south Croatians, we even have a mountain range dividing us, while you don't as far as I know.
Yes and no, I would have expected us to be more homogenous, but at the same time that's not too surprising considering the historical minority communities of Bulgarians and newer Gagauz in the South and Ukrainians in the North.
It is only natural that they'll slowly mix and assimilate into the culture of the majority of the population.
knez01
08-21-2020, 03:41 PM
Yes and no, I would have expected us to be more homogenous, but at the same time that's not too surprising considering the historical minority communities of Bulgarians and newer Gagauz in the South and Ukrainians in the North.
It is only natural that they'll slowly mix and assimilate into the culture of the majority of the population.
I agree, but we had all kinds of peoples thrown into our pot too, from Italians to Germans, the demographic maps of Croatia, Istria and Dalmatia from the 19th century was a mess. Ironically, Croatian parts of Bosnia had the least minorities among them I think, despite not even being a part of modern Croatia. But I believe once we increase testing from all over Ex-Yu the differences will be even greater on average.
Dušan
08-21-2020, 03:46 PM
If your results are typical for Southern Croatia and ph2ter's for the Northern part, then the North to South variation in Croatia is exactly as big as in unmixed Moldovans/Romanians from R. Moldova.
For example, taking into account the sum of North Atlantic and Baltic on Eurogenes K13, there is a difference of 15% between the two of you (53% to 68%), and it's roughly the same here (from about 40% to 63%).
I wouldn't be surprised if the same range applies to Serbia, Bulgaria, etc.
Based on 37 samples I have, Serbian sum of North Atlantic and Baltic ranges between 50.5% to 61.96% (difference cca 11.5%).
Average value of these 37 sample is 55.15%.
I am near average with 56.1%.
vbnetkhio
08-21-2020, 03:46 PM
Thank you so much! You read my mind. I wanted to ask you that. Now I will more easily make new national average!
How do you think it should be made?
i think you should weigh it using older population censuses, when rural regions weren't empty compared to cities. and use newer ones just to fill some gaps.
i found a census from 1921 or 1931 where Serbia was nicely separated into Vojvodina, Central and South Serbia, and used that for weighing the current Serb_Serbia average.
Ion Basescul
08-21-2020, 03:49 PM
I agree, but we had all kinds of peoples thrown into our pot too, from Italians to Germans, the demographic maps of Croatia, Istria and Dalmatia from the 19th century was a mess. Ironically, Croatian parts of Bosnia had the least minorities among them I think, despite not even being a part of modern Croatia. But I believe once we increase testing from all over Ex-Yu the differences will be even greater on average.
There's also the possibility that they haven't mixed with minorities.
It would be useful if the Ukrainians to our East and South had older roots to these lands, rather than get resettled here from Eastern parts of Ukraine and Russia after the Russo-Turkish war. Then we would have been able to compare if they are also affected by this gradient. Recall that the Iron Age inhabitants that were identified as settled locals, and whose samples were collected 20km from where these Moldovans live, are also quite Southern.
scy192_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp,19.33,15.87,24 .64,13.25,21.59,2.68,0.53,0.00,0.91,0.42,0.76,0.00 ,0.01
scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp,21.77,15.56,27 .21,8.22,20.80,4.53,0.00,0.00,1.91,0.00,0.00,0.00, 0.00
scy300_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2253_ybp,26.39,9.87,23. 35,10.37,23.25,3.55,0.00,1.09,0.00,2.13,0.00,0.00, 0.00
scy305_Moldova_Scythian.SG_2254_ybp,27.80,11.06,20 .79,10.94,21.92,0.00,3.07,0.00,1.66,1.84,0.29,0.65 ,0.00
https://i.ibb.co/Dzt0Q7C/image.png
very intresting results! could you also post her MDLP World oracle results?
Admix Results (sorted):
1 North_and_East_European 42.29
2 South_and_West_European 41.28
3 Caucaus_Parsia 9.49
4 Middle_East 6.41
5 East_Asian 0.42
6 Indian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
1 Croatian_V 2.89
2 Hungarian 3.92
3 Croatian 4.16
4 Slovenian 4.29
5 Czech 4.32
6 German 4.74
7 Slovakian 4.78
8 Bosnian 5.49
9 German-North 5.68
10 German_V 5.85
11 Austrian 6.15
12 CEU_V 6.55
13 Ukrainian-West 6.88
14 Latvian_V 7.08
15 Ukrainian_V 7.65
16 Norwegian_V 7.79
17 Swedish 8.25
18 Sorb 8.87
19 CEU 9.11
20 Ukrainian-Center 9.17
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 80.8% Bosnian + 19.2% Latvian @ 0.7
2 79.5% Bosnian + 20.5% Lithuanian @ 0.75
3 75% Bosnian + 25% Belarusian @ 0.77
4 52.7% Polish_V + 47.3% Macedonian @ 0.77
5 57% Polish_V + 43% Bulgarian @ 0.82
6 66.2% Bosnian + 33.8% Ukrainian @ 0.87
7 55.7% Bosnian + 44.3% Ukrainian-West @ 0.89
8 80.7% Bosnian + 19.3% Estonian @ 0.89
9 77.9% Bosnian + 22.1% Lithuanian_V @ 0.92
10 73.5% Bosnian + 26.5% Russian_Center @ 0.94
11 77.7% Sorb + 22.3% Italian-Center @ 0.96
12 75.5% Bosnian + 24.5% Russian @ 0.96
13 71.6% Bosnian + 28.4% Polish @ 0.97
14 66.7% Bosnian + 33.3% Ukrainian-East @ 0.98
15 65.4% Ukrainian-West + 34.6% Montenegrin @ 1
16 68.1% Bosnian + 31.9% Polish_V @ 1
17 62.7% Croatian + 37.3% Ukrainian-West @ 1.01
18 51.5% Macedonian + 48.5% Polish @ 1.01
19 69% Ukrainian-East + 31% Italian-North @ 1.02
20 59.7% Ukrainian-West + 40.3% Serbian @ 1.03
https://i.imgur.com/UUP70fk.png?1
Well, I finally showed this woman her results. She does not know for any ancestry outside of these 2 villages (Vuka & Beketinci) mentioned in the OP.
She says while she was growing up in Slavonia it was full of all kinds of ethnicities - Croats, Serbs, Germans, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Rusyns, Gypsies, Jews...
She say that she is just Šokac but that she always had friends from other minorities and Šokci do intermarry with other Catholics.
Also she said there were some Czechs in her father's village (Beketinci), but that her family all have Croatian names, as far as she knows.
PS I was right Šokci from her area come from Derventa which is basically historical Slavonia which is today part of Bosnia-Herzegovina
U vremenu 1751.- 1773. biskup Đakovačko-bosanske biskupije i veliki župan Požeške županije Josip Antun Ćolnić je inicirao preseljenje 36 katoličkih obitelji iz okolice Dervente i franjevačkog samostana u Plehanu. Za uređivanje puta koji je vodio od Đakova prema Osijeku tada je osnovao selo Josipovac na rijeci Vuka (kasnije će ime ovog mjesta biti preimenovano u Vuka, a stanovnici zvati "sa Vuke", umjesto "iz Vuke"). U svrhu preseljenja i obavljenog iskrčenja šikara i šuma, obitelji su dobile dozvole za podizanje kuća i pretvaranje iskrčenog zemljišta u oranice i livade, te bile oslobođene feudalnih obaveza toga doba. O promjeni imena naselja Vuka 1773., umjesto Josipovac (nakon smrti biskupa Josipa Čolnić), mjesto je dobilo ime prema rijeci Vuka koja ga je okruživala i bila na neki način generator uspješnog gospodarskog i ostalog razvitka sela. Sama činjenica da ga je osnovao biskup Josip, te što je isti sagradio crkvu (posvećenu Sv.Josipu) nije do danas razjašnjenja u namjeri otkrivanja razloga promjene imena mjesta Josipovac- Vuka.
So she is indeed native Slavonian.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 07:00 PM
Well, I finally showed this woman her results. She does not know for any ancestry outside of these 2 villages (Vuka & Beketinci) mentioned in the OP.
She says while she was growing up in Slavonia it was full of all kinds of ethnicities - Croats, Serbs, Germans, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Rusyns, Gypsies, Jews...
She say that she is just Šokac but that she always had friends from other minorities and Šokci do intermarry with other Catholics.
Also she said there were some Czechs in her father's village (Beketinci), but that her family all have Croatian names, as far as she knows.
PS I was right Šokci from her area come from Derventa which is basically historical Slavonia which is today part of Bosnia-Herzegovina
So she is indeed native Slavonian.
Derventa was part of which region during the Middle Ages?
That quote says nothing about it being part of historical Slavonia.
Derventa was part of which region during the Middle Ages?
That quote says nothing about it being part of historical Slavonia.
Croatian wikipedia says it was part of historical Slavonian banate until 14th century when it came under Bosnia during Tvrtko (for short period)
Who cares, anyway.
Bosnian Posavina is geographically Panonnia.
17571imre
08-21-2020, 07:14 PM
Target: Šokac
Distance: 1.9910% / 1.99100924
51.2 Polish
32.0 Russian_Smolensk
10.0 Greek_Cypriot
4.6 Sardinian
2.2 Norwegian
results with Andre Balkan k13 model
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 07:15 PM
Croatian wikipedia says it was part of historical Slavonian banate until 14th century when it came under Bosnia during Tvrtko (for short period)
Who cares, anyway.
Bosnian Posavina is geographically Panonnia.
Who the fuck cares about Pannonia? Jesus, you are thick.
It it was part of historical Slavonia ok then.
Looking at her matches at gedmatch nothing useful, mostly mixed white Americans.
On my heritage though she has lot of north Slavic matches, even Finnish and Swedish.
But more Czechs than Slovaks (two are 3-4 cousin level). Since she mentions Czechs in her father's village, if some of them assimilated into Sokci they were probably Moravians and not Bohemians because her Germanic is so low.
Now I'm not sure are those matches shared ancient ancestry or something more recent.
Aldaris
08-21-2020, 07:46 PM
Who the fuck cares about Pannonia? Jesus, you are thick.
It it was part of historical Slavonia ok then.
Calm the heck down, already. Noone’s giving you a hard time and noone’s trying to. You don’t go on the edge over this stuff.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 07:53 PM
Calm the heck down, already. Noone’s giving you a hard time and noone’s trying to. You don’t go on the edge over this stuff.
Girl wants to write a scientific paper and knowing her she would draw conclusions based on, well pure shit.
Anyway, bugger off. I didn't ask you anything. You are not the only one who is able to realize that nobody is trying to give me a hard time. That I am on the edge is your opinion.
Alenka
08-21-2020, 07:57 PM
Girl wants to write a scientific paper and knowing her she would draw conclusions based on, well pure shit.
Anyway, bugger off. I didn't ask you anything. You are not the only one who is able to realize that nobody is trying to give me a hard time. That I am on the edge is your opinion.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=4487&dateline=1579192744
Alenka
08-21-2020, 08:05 PM
Hey Feiichy, glad to see the sample found its way to the lab this time.
Congrats on the results.
:D
vbnetkhio
08-21-2020, 08:14 PM
This is her score on K13 model I made with ancient samples:
Target: Manda
Distance: 3.3856% / 3.38556769
79.6 Early_Slavic
15.0 Romanized_Balkan
4.2 Early_Germanic
1.2 Eurasian_nomad
I'd try Vbnethkio ancient model too, bu sadly thread is gone.
Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65, 9.85,35.91,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0 ,0.26,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,1 3,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64
Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450 _ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.2 5,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55, 21.81,20.01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3 .48,30,9.21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15, 16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34 .15,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,1 2.02,24.41,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0
Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.28 ,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57
Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23. 55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06
Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,20 .48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0
Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.54 ,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0
Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.45 ,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0
Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,17 .49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03
Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12.1 2,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44
Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24. 25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89
Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.3 4,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0
Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68,2 1.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0
Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19. 72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0.4 1
Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79,3 0.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14
Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87,1 5.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0
Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.77 ,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0
Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21. 98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0
Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47,1 6.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0
Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21. 47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15
Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21. 96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0
Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4. 84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0
Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,17 .2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01
Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76, 15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37
Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19.6 9,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87
Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0,2 1.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71
Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,22 .93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4
Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71,2 8.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28
Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19. 52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27
Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,26 .59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,26 .05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0
Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,18 .04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0
Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4. 13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0
Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8.5 ,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0
Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64,2 1.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0
Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,22 .3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0
Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6, 36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24.9 7,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0
Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2,2 1.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0
Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48, 18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20. 11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0
Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23.5 7,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0
Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24. 55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0
Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.3 3,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0
Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92, 19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0
Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.8 2,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0
Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22. 21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0
Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43,1 9.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0
Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_yb p,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0 .11,0.93,0
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_135 6_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56 ,0.94,0,0.46,0
Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,4 5.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0. 42,0
Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71 ,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17
Gothic:Swedish,48.53,31.09,9.25,5.2,1.35,0.51,0.72 ,0.38,0.83,0.68,0.71,0.21,0.55
...
Target: Manda
Distance: 1.6272% / 1.62715870
76.6 Slavic
12.0 Iron_age_Balkan
11.4 Roman
Almost same results as me, even bit more Roman (almost same distance too), despite on K13 she's much more Baltic.
Aldaris
08-21-2020, 08:35 PM
Girl wants to write a scientific paper and knowing her she would draw conclusions based on, well pure shit.
As though any of you machine kiddies with their Ing know anything about science. Go play with toycars. That’s how we see you.
Anyway, bugger off. I didn't ask you anything. You are not the only one who is able to realize that nobody is trying to give me a hard time. That I am on the edge is your opinion.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you did or didn’t ask. I see shit, I react. When she isn’t doing that, don’t go a fucking overkill for no reason by definition. And if you think it’s just a matter of an opinion, then come here to any of a local pubs and tell that to a local with a straight face, while expecting a calm reaction.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 08:53 PM
As though any of you machine kiddies with their Ing know anything about science. Go play with toycars. That’s how we see you.
I always wanted to be a physicist, but turn of events led me otherwise. So I wouldn't even argue with you here. But...
1. Are you this childish atm to play who has a bigger dick because of something that has nothing to do with it.
2. I know her way of thinking over the years and you need to have some info on this Croatian history and stuff. Since you need to know some stuff beforehand and you are not informed like I said just bugger off.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you did or didn’t ask. I see shit, I react. When she isn’t doing that, don’t go a fucking overkill for no reason by definition. And if you think it’s just a matter of an opinion, then come here to any of a local pubs and tell that to a local with a straight face.
Tell someone what? To bugger off? Why would I come to any local pubs and do that without a reason? If I had a reason I would say it. Is that a big deal for you that you need to mention that?
You machine kiddies go play with toys.
Come to muh local pubs and say that.
Lulz.xD
https://i.postimg.cc/DwDs5zGt/Digital-Vengeful-Annelida-max-1mb.gif
Leave my thread already, you shitted enough. It's not about you anyway.
Aldaris, thanks for helping, but this guy is lost case. He had conflict with pretty much every Croatian member and chased some of them away from here over the years.
All of that because of hating his DNA results which nobody cares about anyway.
BTW, that IncelSlayer sock thumbing Insuperable up called him pure Albanian in the past. :laugh:
Incredible how every thread I make needs to be destroyed by subhumans.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 09:00 PM
Leave my thread already, you shitted enough. It's not about you anyway.
Aldaris, thanks for helping, but this guy is lost case. He had conflict with pretty much every Croatian member and chased some of them away from here over the years.
All of that because of hating his DNA results which nobody cares about anyway.
I asked honest and reasonable questions most of the thread.
This guy replied and I answered.
Who did I chase? Remind me!
ShereKhan
08-21-2020, 09:01 PM
As though any of you machine kiddies with their Ing know anything about science. Go play with toycars. That’s how we see you.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you did or didn’t ask. I see shit, I react. When she isn’t doing that, don’t go a fucking overkill for no reason by definition. And if you think it’s just a matter of an opinion, then come here to any of a local pubs and tell that to a local with a straight face, while expecting a calm reaction.
You're playing video games at your age and yet you tell someone to go play with toycars,how does this work?
I asked honest and reasonable questions most of the thread.
This guy replied and I answered.
Who did I chase? Remind me!
Yeah, right, like making fun of me for researching regional genetics.
You chased away Lucia, also had conflicts with Borna, Duke and Hrvoje. Robocop too.
Called Celine ugly whore or something.
Nice track record.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 09:14 PM
Yeah, right, like making fun of me for researching regional genetics.
You chased away Lucia, also had conflicts with Borna, Duke and Hrvoje. Robocop too.
Called Celine ugly whore or something.
Nice track record.
You making fun of came afterwards.
I didn't chase Borna. I have already told you this. I by accident found facebook page of a guy whose photos he kept posting in Members Pictures Thread. Some Serbian guy from Vojvodina. I sent him a PM about it. I liked Borna. His reponse to me was that he will leave TA blah blah blah... I was wtf and then I replied telling him not to leave, why would you leave etc and he never logged in ever since he logged off.
I didn't chase Duke. Wtf. Ask him that.
Hrvoje left because of me? I remember that he was trollish and was banned a couple of times because of that.
Let's be honest. Celine asked that ever since she first started posting. What was her first thread? In the meantime we sorted things out and she is still posting.
Lucia was can't remember, half Slovenian or half French that didn't quite see Bosnian Croats as Croats. She annoyed me.
And why you don't want to post your K13? If you think averages we worked on suck, start that by improving Herzegovina Croat average with your own results.
But anyway, that average is probably best we have because it's based on huge sample size both academic and collected rural ones.
You don't wanting to post them is indicative though. It's not me or anyone else who dislikes certain genetics, it's you and you prove that by your own example.
My next goal is to test few grannies from my Island (one is from it, another one from other Island close by). Yeah.
But not now because I ran out of money and it's hard to see point of your hard work if your effort is ridiculed.
So I'll probably leave that to next enthusiast.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 09:42 PM
And why you don't want to post your K13? If you think averages we worked on suck, start that by improving Herzegovina Croat average with your own results.
But anyway, that average is probably best we have because it's based on huge sample size both academic and collected rural ones.
You don't wanting to post them is indicative though. It's not me or anyone else who dislikes certain genetics, it's you and you prove that by your own example.
Perhaps it is very difficult for you to understand some things since you look things mostly through the genetics, in your case who is more northern and who is more southern, who is butthurt because of it and who is not, but my results have nothing to do with our discussion. Get that into your skull next time.
1. That women is mixed with West Slavs.
2. Bosnian population (Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks) is most likely more or less the same as pre-Ottoman population. Šokci doesn't seem so. They mixed in larger numbers with other Pannonian groups.
3. Even if Šokci were never a Bosnian population it is still indicative she is mixed with West Slavs, just as I am most likely mixed.
Questions?
Dušan
08-21-2020, 09:46 PM
And why you don't want to post your K13?
It would be nice to see Insuperables autosomal reults.
He should be proud on it, not ashaimed.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 09:47 PM
Bosnian and south Croat populations in calculators you created: Bosnia, Bosnia_proper, South West Bosnia, Herzegovina, Bosnia_Završje (or is that now SW Bosnia?), South Morlach cluster, Islands, this or that. Are you now going to create Bosnia_Posavina one?
Just stop and find something else to do in your life. Like I said it doesn't seem you have anything smart to do in your life other then categorizing people.
It would be nice to see Insuperables autosomal reults.
He should be proud on it, not ashaimed.
I agree.
Bosnian and south Croat populations in calculators you created: Bosnia, Bosnia_proper, South West Bosnia, Herzegovina, Bosnia_Završje (or is that now SW Bosnia?), South Morlach cluster, Islands, this or that. Are you now going to create Bosnia_Posavina one?
Just stop and find something else to do in your life. Like I said it doesn't seem you have anything smart to do in your life other then categorizing people.
Just STFU. There are only three regions inside BiH, and third one is west Bosnia instead of Tropolje like I imagined but I accepted Vbnetkhio sugestion.
Morlach cluster was Mingle idea and it doesn't exist anymore but only one Dalmatian average.
Stop being paranoid and trying to create uniform mass out of richness of our regional cultures and ancestry in your insecure communist mind.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 09:58 PM
Just STFU. There are only three regions inside BiH, and third one is west Bosnia instead of Tropolje like I imagined but I accepted Vbnetkhio sugestion.
Morlach cluster was Mingle idea and it doesn't exist anymore but only one Dalmatian average.
Stop being paranoid and trying to create uniform mass of richness of our regional cultures and ancestry in your insecure communist mind.
Insecure communist mind. Wtf lulz.:bored:
Your mindset is similar to the average complexed Croat. Just divide and categorize, who is this, who is that. Nation that in 1000 years has only learned how to be divided and be ruled by.
Insecure communist mind. Wtf lulz.:bored:
Your mindset is similar to the average complexed Croat. Just divide and categorized, who is this, who is that. Nation that in 1000 years has only learned how to be divided and be ruled by.
Yep,communist minds like everything uniform and the same and delete any uniqueness between groups of people. Be it cultural or genetic or whatever. Natural diversity upsets them.
That's you.
I enjoy exploring Croatian genetics and learning how it fits with geography and historical narrative.
Therefore to me any results is fascinating and very valuable from super Med/Balkan to super Slavic/north Euro shifted extremes and anything in between.
And in the end all these regional averages are more similar than people would expect.
I like to learn-you are afraid to learn and explore because you are dogmatic and afraid of change.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 10:25 PM
Yep,communist minds like everything uniform and the same and delete any uniqueness between groups of people. Be it cultural or genetic or whatever. Natural diversity upsets them.
That's you.
I enjoy exploring Croatian genetics and learning how it fits with geography and historical narrative.
Therefore to me any results is fascinating and very valuable from super Med/Balkan to super Slavic/north Euro shifted extremes and anything in between.
And in the end all these regional averages are more similar than people would expect.
I like to learn-you are afraid to learn and explore because you are dogmatic and afraid of change.
I am communist because I want uniform Croatia? Many Croats are still not fond of Bosnian Croats (which in turn makes our regional identity stronger) and Croatian regional identities are kind of strong. Croatia is further more, still mentally 'divided' because of former countries, empires or whatever (Yugoslavia in the latest case). Croatian nation is a complexed mongrel divided nation that needs to be bombed every month to get some sense of uniqueness or win World Championships every year.
We so Hungarian we not Balkan
North Croatia so Austrian like we not Balkan
Southern Croatia is Italy we Med culture not Balkan
These are this this is that, this pocket of this part of Croatia is this or that blah blah blah must find acceptance from others
Me categorize people, me create 50 cluster groups, me ask saliva of all grandmas from my archipelago
I am communist because I want uniform Croatia? Many Croats are still not fond of Bosnian Croats (which in turn makes our regional identity stronger) and Croatian regional identities are kind of strong. Croatia is further more, still mentally 'divided' because of former countries, empires or whatever (Yugoslavia in the latest case). Croatian nation is a complexed mongrel divided nation that needs to be bombed every month to get some sense of uniqueness or win World Championships every year.
We so Hungarian we not Balkan
North Croatia so Austrian like we not Balkan
Southern Croatia is Italy we Med culture not Balkan
These are this this is that, this pocket of this part of Croatia is this or that blah blah blah must find acceptance from others
Me categorize people, me create 50 cluster groups, me ask saliva of all grandmas from my archipelago
You create a fuss for nothing. I pretty much matured and evolved in last year or so, hopefully you can too.
All these labels don't mean much to me anymore unless somebody is using them for bad means.
I'm just happy to research genetics and that's it.
But since it's costly and takes a lot of time you can breathe, because probably I won't really bother with it anymore.
As Vbnethkio said - my curiosity has been satisfied.
Until some huge early medieval or late Iron Age study comes out.
I think I'm retiring.
Dušan
08-21-2020, 10:41 PM
Croatian nation is a complexed mongrel divided nation that needs to be bombed every month to get some sense of uniqueness
Seems you not feel well as part of modern Croatian nation.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 10:44 PM
You create a fuss for nothing. I pretty much matured and evolved in last year or so, hopefully you can too.
All these labels don't mean much to me anymore unless somebody is using them for bad means.
I'm just happy to research genetics and that's it.
But since it's costly and takes a lot of time you can breathe, because probably I won't really bother with it anymore.
As Vbnethkio said - my curiosity has been satisfied.
Until some huge early medieval or late Iron Age study comes out.
I think I'm retiring.
Funny thing is that I also think I matured and evolved. If you are retiring don't retire because of me and grow some thicker skin. I will breathe the same, mind you.
Insuperable
08-21-2020, 10:50 PM
Seems you not feel well as part of modern Croatian nation.
I am just annoyed. I don't want to get further into this.
Well well, now word spread in the village aunt Manda tested and other grannies are jelly I chose her :D
I explained them I chose her because Slavonia is undertested and I already had plenty of southern Croat samples.
Now I won't have issue to find new volounteers, entire village want to test! :D
Some wealthier ones who live abroad during the year expessed desire to pay test for themself with own money. Wohoho!
OP is very proud to learn she is super Slavic shifted, she seem very happy to learn that. Now I'm really glad how it all turned out.
She say it makes sense because she has Slavic soul, peaceful and withdrawn unlike pirates from my Island!
vbnetkhio
08-22-2020, 07:21 PM
do the k15 and k36 maps for her
or post her k36
do the k15 and k36 maps for her
or post her k36
Okay, I will :)
Meanwhile her mytrueancestry results:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?285335-My-true-ancestry-com&p=6859790&viewfull=1#post6859790
do the k15 and k36 maps for her
or post her k36
K36
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 6.00 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.41 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 14.46 Pct
East_Med 4.68 Pct
Eastern_Euro 17.65 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.57 Pct
French 10.46 Pct
Iberian 10.57 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 4.25 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.96 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 4.90 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.06 Pct
West_Med 1.03 Pct
K36 similarity map - Slavic as f**K!
https://i.imgur.com/7xDQ5Cd.png
vbnetkhio
08-22-2020, 07:47 PM
K36
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 6.00 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.41 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 14.46 Pct
East_Med 4.68 Pct
Eastern_Euro 17.65 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.57 Pct
French 10.46 Pct
Iberian 10.57 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 4.25 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.96 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 4.90 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.06 Pct
West_Med 1.03 Pct
https://i.imgur.com/En4bO6L.png
K15 PCA (not fan of this calc though)
https://i.imgur.com/e3YpkPD.png
In short, she seem to be Slovak like genetically. Now question is how many other Šokci are like that.
If we compare her results to Ph2ter (they are two north Croats from opposite part of country)
He (NW Croat) is Czech/East German like genetically, she (NE Croat) is Slovak/Rusyn like genetically.
There are probably northern edges of Croatian cluster.
In the south it should be Montenegrin like.
Or even Albanian like, if we will count Janjevci, Croat minority from Kosovo.
ph2ter
08-22-2020, 08:13 PM
K36 similarity map - Slavic as f**K!
https://i.imgur.com/7xDQ5Cd.png
https://i.imgur.com/KBFmQaX.png
ph2ter
08-22-2020, 08:24 PM
If we compare her results to Ph2ter (they are two north Croats from opposite part of country)
He (NW Croat) is Czech/East German like genetically, she (NE Croat) is Slovak/Rusyn like genetically.
There are probably northern edges of Croatian cluster.
In the south it should be Montenegrin like.
Or even Albanian like, if we will count Janjevci, Croat minority from Kosovo.
When we two are compared in absolute scale:
Me:
https://i.imgur.com/IwuWWuC.png
She:
https://i.imgur.com/2HNcPDi.png
ph2ter
08-22-2020, 08:28 PM
Why you are using my old K36 oracle from 2017 without indicating on every map what is that? Although it was public at that time I gave it to Tolan becasue it is stated on his website that's is based on my old oracle. And it's fine.
You try to copy me and pretend it is your work, this is just pathetic. Ok you added few Swedish refs by your self.
Moreover western Poland is not just Wielkoposlka and Upper Silesia.
What do you want. The data is public. I don't use your super secret references.
ph2ter
08-22-2020, 08:39 PM
Data were collected by me in 90% in 2017 and I made it public but for example Tolan is honest guy (unlike you) it is stated on his website that K36 simitiude map is based on my work mainly.
I want on every map using this K36 oracle you stated that most of oracle data is Lukasz work. In another case it is just pretending of you that you collect all those references which is not true and you are a thief.
Or you try to be an author of it? I will talk to Loki about it.
Do what you want. I only show the data on the map which I designed and with the data which is not a copy of your values. I updated my values in many cases with the user values from Anthrogenica. I collected user values some period of time when I was making PCA plots there.
ph2ter
08-22-2020, 08:49 PM
Interestingly except Sweden there is no new reference comparing to what was published in 2017 and what was included on Tolan website or was public on forum in 2017.
You can't deny it is still based on my work and I will be remind it every time when you will publish such map that it was stolen from me and used without my permission. And I will put this case higher here.
I don't care about your design but data. Without it map will be blue in most parts.
Just add info on map that large part of reference is based on Lukasz work which is true and no problem. It is so hard for you?
And you used my G25 calculators without stating that they are mine. And I didn't complain.
It is not a problem at all for me to put such label.
Harald Meller
08-22-2020, 08:49 PM
Why you are using my old K36 oracle from 2017 without indicating on every map what is that? Although it was public at that time I gave it to Tolan becasue it is stated on his website that's is based on my old oracle. And it's fine.
You try to copy me and pretend it is your work, this is just pathetic. Ok you added few Swedish refs by your self.
Hi, my friend Peterski / Tomenable, the only official co-author of the Oracle, gave him permission to use it:
https://i.imgur.com/XWkg5lJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/iO3wSKk.png
https://i.imgur.com/U0RxB0n.png
Lucas
08-22-2020, 08:50 PM
And you used my G25 calculators without stating that they are mine. And I didn't complain.
It is not a problem at all for me to put such label.
What? http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/
Every calc has author since long time.
Harald Meller
08-22-2020, 08:53 PM
Ok Peterski, you can give permission only to refs collected by you.
That would be over 1500 populations at this point. You know he cannot publish this, only the old version.
Lucas
08-22-2020, 08:53 PM
It is not a problem at all for me to put such label.
So it would be and of drama for me. I want only that my work will be honoured.
Insuperable
08-22-2020, 09:01 PM
So it would be and of drama for me. You can add Peterski or whoever too it won't be my problem. I want only that my work will be honoured.
You collected references, made them public and people need to put your name when they are using them?
ph2ter
08-22-2020, 09:05 PM
What? http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/
Every calc has author since long time.
It is not so long. The names are there only a week or two.
I have put the label according to your whish. But now, I should put also Peterski.
Lucas
08-22-2020, 09:06 PM
It is not so long. The names are there only a week or two.
I have put the label according to your whish. But now, I should put also Peterski.
Thank you. I don't care about others. But add data is from 2017 which is important and put whole oracle in time context.
Harald Meller
08-22-2020, 09:07 PM
So it would be and of drama for me. You can add Peterski or whoever too
Good idea.
Insuperable
08-22-2020, 09:09 PM
On tool like map. Tolan did it. What is the problem for ph2ter?
Bruh. I see this is your life and you have nothing smarter to do in your life except collecting references. I wouldn't give a shit for example.
ShereKhan
08-22-2020, 09:12 PM
At
Brutal.Keep fighting the good fight and expose those crooks!!!
https://media.tenor.com/images/2473c96c5e880fccda4f8e0a1501de30/tenor.gif
knez01
08-22-2020, 09:14 PM
What the hell is going on lol
Bruh. I see this is your life and you have nothing smarter to do in your life except collecting references. I wouldn't give a shit for example.
Who cares what you prefer! You are really annoying. Lot of us are grateful to all these guys collecting references.
Kudos to all of you for your dedication and effort :)
Insuperable
08-22-2020, 09:18 PM
Who cares what you prefer! You are really annoying. Lot of us are grateful to all these guys collecting references.
Kudos to all of you for your dedication and effort :)
I want my name next to references I collected.
Rocinante
08-22-2020, 09:21 PM
I am curious about Peterski, what he did to be so mentioned in TA?
ph2ter and Lukasz are the future in genetics by the way.
Ok time to end it:) I don't want to derail your thread Stearsolina sorry.
It's okay, no problem :)
I hope you solve all issues between you, Peterski, Ph2ter. All of you contribute(d) to forum a lot.
With newest ancient model
Target: Manda
Distance: 1.7507% / 1.75071579
83.0 Proto-Slavic
15.8 Imperial_Roman
1.2 Proto-Germanic
Compare to results in my signature :D
Karol Klačansky
09-07-2020, 01:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJRSbkubiR4
sounds like how I imagine the music in hell to sound like.
Karol Klačansky
09-07-2020, 01:37 PM
With newest ancient model
Target: Manda
Distance: 1.7507% / 1.75071579
83.0 Proto-Slavic
15.8 Imperial_Roman
1.2 Proto-Germanic
Compare to results in my signature :D
which reference pops is this based off of
sounds like how I imagine the music in hell to sound like.
h8er
Karol Klačansky
09-07-2020, 01:43 PM
In my opinion the women isnt mixed with slovaks most likely. She scores a whopping 40 percent on baltic. Ive only seen some slovaks score that from NE slovakia and ruthenians. Most slovaks from the majoritiy of the country score between 35-39%. Also, Slovaks came to that area not too distant in the past, she would most likely have some slovak last names in her family tree and be aware of it just as most people in vojvodina are aware of their slovak and hungarian heritage. We will know more wants the other old people in the town get tested. If anything she may be a great example of the original slavs who came to the area from western ukraine/se poland. Really cool results!
Karol Klačansky
09-07-2020, 01:43 PM
h8er
I like my southern slavic bros but that music was awful man
I like my southern slavic bros but that music was awful man
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/765699254308311040/777O-MN4_400x400.jpg
which reference pops is this based off of
Proto-Slavic = Sunghir medieval Russian + Avar_Szolad_02
Imperial Roman = imperial roman ancient samples on Vahaduo
Proto-Germanic = medieval Bavarians and Langobards (I handpicked purest ones)
In my opinion the women isnt mixed with slovaks most likely. She scores a whopping 40 percent on baltic. Ive only seen some slovaks score that from NE slovakia and ruthenians. Most slovaks from the majoritiy of the country score between 35-39%. Also, Slovaks came to that area not too distant in the past, she would most likely have some slovak last names in her family tree and be aware of it just as most people in vojvodina are aware of their slovak and hungarian heritage. We will know more wants the other old people in the town get tested. If anything she may be a great example of the original slavs who came to the area from western ukraine/se poland. Really cool results!
Thanks for your opinion Karol!
In my opinion the women isnt mixed with slovaks most likely. She scores a whopping 40 percent on baltic. Ive only seen some slovaks score that from NE slovakia and ruthenians. Most slovaks from the majoritiy of the country score between 35-39%. Also, Slovaks came to that area not too distant in the past, she would most likely have some slovak last names in her family tree and be aware of it just as most people in vojvodina are aware of their slovak and hungarian heritage. We will know more wants the other old people in the town get tested. If anything she may be a great example of the original slavs who came to the area from western ukraine/se poland. Really cool results!
She also lacks Celto-Germanic admix Slovaks have. She doesn't even score Paleo-Balkan either but straight up Roman/East Med for her pre-Slavic part.
So she is super Slavic, but her pre-Slavic part is very much southern.
Regarding Croats with such outlying Baltic scores, it's rare but exists.
This sample was found by Vbnethkio (not included in regional statistics though because it's 50/50)
Dalmatian+Kvarner,26.47,40.04,13.02,6.16,13.39,0.1 7,0.14,0,0.09,0.23,0.28,0,0
Kvarner is a Bay in north Adriatic between Istria and Gorski Kotar south from Slovenia.
vbnetkhio
09-07-2020, 04:11 PM
In my opinion the women isnt mixed with slovaks most likely. She scores a whopping 40 percent on baltic. Ive only seen some slovaks score that from NE slovakia and ruthenians. Most slovaks from the majoritiy of the country score between 35-39%. Also, Slovaks came to that area not too distant in the past, she would most likely have some slovak last names in her family tree and be aware of it just as most people in vojvodina are aware of their slovak and hungarian heritage. We will know more wants the other old people in the town get tested. If anything she may be a great example of the original slavs who came to the area from western ukraine/se poland. Really cool results!
that looks like too small of a range to me. if your average is 37, 40+ Baltic scores should be fairly common.
her updated K13 run. She fits tightly as native western Ukrainian, and is closer to main Ukrainian cluster than to Eastern Croats average in which her sample included to.
https://i.imgur.com/3UNX9Nv.png
Now, her update on MyHeritage was as following (ranked from high to medium and low confidence regions based on IBD sharing which reflects real ancestry)
https://i.imgur.com/MRO5RVV.png
https://i.imgur.com/OQbr3fl.png
https://i.imgur.com/5NTaVmG.png
https://i.imgur.com/fhLpRiX.png
Based on this, it's pretty sure she has recent north Slavic ancestry. Notice how she gets high confidence IBD matches with Czechs and Slovaks and low confidence matches with Croats and Bosnians (which is weird tbh, but okay). Notice her highest confidence group includes Slovakia and eastern Czech republic.
I discussed this with the woman and she claims if she has any foreign input it must be Czech, because Czechs were present in one of her ancestral villages.
However, she doesn't match main Czech region Bohemia, rather Slovakia and eastern Czechia (Moravia). On MyHeritage she has both Czech and Slovak matches. She also has lot of German matches, despite it doesn't show in her autosomal make-up. Getting German matches could support theory her north Slavic part is Czech since Czechs have German admixture.
But I think her north Slavic part is rather more eastern than Czech and I will explain why. She scores no western Czech regions, and gets general Austro-Hungarian cluster in low confidence. Her genetic profile is shifting towards Ukrainians, not Czechs. Her pre-Slavic part is too southern/East Med like to be linked to Czechs. Ofc she is mainly Croat but IMO if she was part Czech she would have more of Celto-Germanic admix. If her Czech side is Moravian/eastern Czech, than her results would make sense. But, even regular Slovaks get some Celto-Germanic usually, she is eastern pulled from Slovaks, let alone Czechs.
In my opinion, her north Slavic part is Rusyn or eastern Slovak-Slovjak. Both Rusyns and Slovaks settled east Slavonia. For example Slovak village next to hers.
She gets Romanians as medium confidence population in IBD sharing, and this is interesting. There were no Romanians in Slavonia. I think this is key to her north Slavic admixture and comes from that. Vlachs settled in Moravia and eastern Slovakia. And those Vlachs were Romanians often from northern Romania like Maramures, not Balkan Vlachs. That could explain why she gets Romanians.
So my conclusion is the following: this Šokac woman is either partly Moravian Czech, eastern Slovak(Slovjak), or Rusyn from Slovakia.
I would bet on Rusyns or eastern Slovaks first, and Moravians second.
Vrazijadivizija
01-06-2021, 05:32 PM
Amazing results! indeed Panonnian Croats like Šokci are definitly the most Slavic as it can get around here..Most of my family are also Šokci but not from the north but rather south and my mother and grandmother names are also Manda :D where is she from? which city/village?
Amazing results! indeed Panonnian Croats like Šokci are definitly the most Slavic as it can get around here..Most of my family are also Šokci but not from the north but rather south and my mother and grandmother names are also Manda :D where is she from? which city/village?
Cool! I just wanted to ask are you Šokac, I know Šokci are present in Posavina too :)
We had member here from Zagreb who was partly Šokac from Bosnian Posavina. I really agree Šokci are most classically Slavic Croatian group, especially in folk culture.
This woman is from Osijek area, from villages of Vuka and Beketinci in eastern Slavonia.
Vrazijadivizija
01-06-2021, 05:55 PM
Cool! I just wanted to ask are you Šokac, I know Šokci are present in Posavina too :)
We had member here from Zagreb who was partly Šokac from Bosnian Posavina. I really agree Šokci are most classically Slavic Croatian group, especially in folk culture.
This woman is from Osijek area, from villages of Vuka and Beketinci in eastern Slavonia.
Im from city of Županja(south east Slavonia) but atm im not in Slavonia..all my ancestors are Šokci local for Vukovarsko Srijemska region and i have also ancestors from Posavina/but lots of those Posavina people predated Šokci and became part of them..i think Posavina needs to have its own calculations..We re also heavily influeced by Šokci traditions,not to mention that My whole members of Family like Cousins etc we all share same names like our Grandfathers Great Grandfathers etc..same like surnames,all are local for this specific region.But this woman is pure example of "Slavonic" Croat.
Vrazijadivizija
01-06-2021, 05:58 PM
Also results like her reminds me of another Šokac who had ancestry from North Slavonia/Doljni Miholjac..
Also results like her reminds me of another Šokac who had ancestry from North Slavonia/Doljni Miholjac..
If you can get any results from Slavonian Croats pls post them on the forum :) This region is undertested, we need more samples!
These are very interesting, they seem similar to Croats but even more Core Slavic-like shifted and similar to Poles to genetically.
I bet that Early Medieval Croats were like them.
Nomad
01-06-2021, 09:47 PM
Maybe they are related to White Croats who they lived in Western Ukraine(thats why they are looking more Slavic by their autosomal dna)
Maybe they are related to White Croats who they lived in Western Ukraine(thats why they are looking more Slavic by their autosomal dna)
All Croats are related with White Croats. In case of Šokci there is lack of data for serious conclusions. This woman seem to have recent Czech, Slovak or Rusyn admixture.
CommonSense
01-06-2021, 10:39 PM
Told you she can't be pure Bosnian :P
Vrazijadivizija
01-06-2021, 11:11 PM
All Croats are related with White Croats. In case of Šokci there is lack of data for serious conclusions. This woman seem to have recent Czech, Slovak or Rusyn admixture.
Its also possible that she has close or distant Slovak Czech or whatever ancestor cuz lots of Slavonians from the north have foreign ancestors like Slovaks etc i know atleast 10 of my freinds that have Slovak or Austrian,Czech ancestry that are from Požega and word for that is "Pemac" Pemac means Croat with foreign ancestry and its used commonly in some parts of Slavonia :) mostly to those with Slovak or Czech ancestry.
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