Help me make new Croat national average

[Jana]

Also Croat_Croatia average. Croat Croatia should be weighted regional average, and Croat weighted average of Croat_Croatia and BiH_Croat average.

This are regional averages:

Croat_B&H_Bosnia,27.52,32.18,15.42,7.12,13.80,1.50,0.64,0. 29,0.62,0.30,0.43,0.07,0.12
Croat_B&H_Herzegovina,24.67,32.93,15.61,8.62,14.05,1.48,0. 72,0.19,0.45,0.60,0.41,0.03,0.07
Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia,26.20,31.95,15.68,9.32,12.99,1.71,0. 53,0.37,0.37,0.48,0.21,0.11,0.07
Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia,26.19,31.56,16.05,8.45,13.6 6,1.57,0.49,0.19,0.59,0.53,0.37,0.20,0.12
Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar,31.53,32.48,14.46,7.52, 10.28,1.15,0.62,0.29,0.53,0.55,0.31,0.14,0.12
Croat_Croatia_Zagorje,31.65,34.32,13.07,7.78,8.75, 1.54,0.74,0.55,0.29,0.82,0.23,0.09,0.16
Croat_Slavonia,27.81,33.94,14.06,8.36,11.84,1.78,0 .03,0.16,1.04,0.54,0.41,0.02,0.01
Croat_Istria_&_Kvarner,26.65,33.07,15.52,7.14,14.2 4,1.54,0.16,0.4 0,0.33,0.33,0.45,0.15,0.02
Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj,26.92,32.68,15.74,7.65,13.07,1.54,0.31,0.25,0 .54,0.54,0.52,0.14,0.09
Croat_Croatia_Central,30.20,33.91,14.98,7.32,9.69, 1.11,0.84,0.23,0.35,0.44,0.66,0.05,0.28

BiH Croat average (which doesn't need update):

Croat_B&H,26.13,32.36,15.57,8.35,13.61,1.56,0.63,0.29,0.48 ,0.46,0.35,0.07,0.09

I don't know how to do it, so any advice is beneficial.

[Jana]

Population according to last censuses:

Croatia total - 4.29 million

Slavonia - 806,192
Dalmatia - 852,068
Istria - 209,020
Central Croatia - 1 million and 790 000
Gorski kotar - 28 000
Zagorje 300 000
Lika-Senj 45 000
Kvarner 255 000

BiH Croats - 544,780

[vbnetkhio]

Population according to last censuses:

Croatia total - 4.29 million

Slavonia - 806,192
Dalmatia - 852,068
Istria - 209,020
Central Croatia - 1 million and 790 000
Gorski kotar - 28 000
Zagorje 300 000
Lika-Senj 45 000
Primorje 255 000

BiH Croats - 544,780

did you find any older censuses?

Central Croatia has almost 2 million people now, but they are migrants from all around, and your Central Croat average are just natives of that region, so i wouldn't multyply it with the current population.

[Jana]

did you find any older censuses?

Central Croatia has almost 2 million people now, but they are migrants from all around, and your Central Croat average are just natives of that region, so i wouldn't multyply it with the current population.

It's very complex in Croatia's case because it was divided into different countries.
Also now Croatia is most ethnically homogenous ever, before was much more Serbs, Germans, Italians in total population.

Therefore I think I should use modern census.

Croatia proper has above 2 million, but I substracted population of Kvarner, Lika, Zagorje and Gorski kotar which are all counted under it only leaving central Croatia.

Yeah, Zagreb metro has people from all over but I don't know how to solve that problem tbh.

[knez01]

It's very complex in Croatia's case because it was divided into different countries.
Also now Croatia is most ethnically homogenous ever, before was much more Serbs, Germans, Italians in total population.

Therefore I think I should use modern census.

Croatia proper has above 2 million, but I substracted population of Kvarner, Lika, Zagorje and Gorski kotar which are all counted under it only leaving central Croatia.

Yeah, Zagreb metro has people from all over but I don't know how to solve that problem tbh.

Maybe remove all Zagreb samples and put the pure Purgers under Prigorje/Zagorje?

[Jana]

Maybe remove all Zagreb samples and put the pure Purgers under Prigorje/Zagorje?

We don't have Zagreb samples actually, as far as I remember.
I mean they exist but they weren't included.

[knez01]

We don't have Zagreb samples actually, as far as I remember.
I mean they exist but they weren't included.

Then you should just ignore Zagreb all together from the regional averages and include them into the Croatian average.

[Lucas]

Also Croat_Croatia average. Croat Croatia should be weighted regional average, and Croat weighted average of Croat_Croatia and BiH_Croat average.

This are regional averages:

Croat_B&H_Bosnia,27.52,32.18,15.42,7.12,13.80,1.50,0.64,0. 29,0.62,0.30,0.43,0.07,0.12
Croat_B&H_Herzegovina,24.67,32.93,15.61,8.62,14.05,1.48,0. 72,0.19,0.45,0.60,0.41,0.03,0.07
Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia,26.20,31.95,15.68,9.32,12.99,1.71,0. 53,0.37,0.37,0.48,0.21,0.11,0.07
Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia,26.19,31.56,16.05,8.45,13.6 6,1.57,0.49,0.19,0.59,0.53,0.37,0.20,0.12
Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar,31.53,32.48,14.46,7.52, 10.28,1.15,0.62,0.29,0.53,0.55,0.31,0.14,0.12
Croat_Croatia_Zagorje,31.65,34.32,13.07,7.78,8.75, 1.54,0.74,0.55,0.29,0.82,0.23,0.09,0.16
Croat_Slavonia,27.81,33.94,14.06,8.36,11.84,1.78,0 .03,0.16,1.04,0.54,0.41,0.02,0.01
Croat_Istria_&_Kvarner,26.65,33.07,15.52,7.14,14.2 4,1.54,0.16,0.4 0,0.33,0.33,0.45,0.15,0.02
Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj,26.92,32.68,15.74,7.65,13.07,1.54,0.31,0.25,0 .54,0.54,0.52,0.14,0.09
Croat_Croatia_Central,30.20,33.91,14.98,7.32,9.69, 1.11,0.84,0.23,0.35,0.44,0.66,0.05,0.28

BiH Croat average (which doesn't need update):

Croat_B&H,26.13,32.36,15.57,8.35,13.61,1.56,0.63,0.29,0.48 ,0.46,0.35,0.07,0.09

I don't know how to do it, so any advice is beneficial.

Croat total weighted according to frequencies of region population in total population:


Croat,28.6443997424,33.3638665005,14.9490138101,7. 7578279311,11.3500726117,1.4089526703,0.5303876731 ,0.2502890466,0.5243368664,0.493169544,0.498705768 1,0.089342873,0.1577967451

Process of making:) Of course Central Croatia is about 41% so have biggest impact on average. Kotor lowest.

https://i.imgur.com/OzEdyLD.png

[Lucas]

Someone could control if it is ok. Vbknethio?

[Jana]

Someone could control if it is ok. Vbknethio?

Nice! That is only counting Croatian regions, right? Than it should be named Croat_Croatia.
Croat should be mix of Croat_Croatia (4.29 million) and BiH Croat (544,780)

Is that doable?

[Jana]

Someone could control if it is ok. Vbknethio?

Nice! That is only counting Croatian regions, right? Than it should be named Croat_Croatia.
Croat should be mix of Croat_Croatia (4.29 million) and BiH Croat (544,780)

Is that doable?

[vbnetkhio]

Someone could control if it is ok. Vbknethio?

again, i wouldn't give this much to central Croatia, but the end result actually looks ok, 28, 33 etc.

[Lucas]

Nice! That is only counting Croatian regions, right? Than it should be named Croat_Croatia.
Croat should be mix of Croat_Croatia (4.29 million) and BiH Croat (544,780)

Is that doable?

As Croat Bih is about 11% of general popualtion and similar to Croat_Croat, total result sis nearly idenrical to Croat_Croat.

28.3678157707,33.2534411855,15.017322291,7.8229668 587,11.5986646244,1.4255678766,0.5413450291,0.2546 572515,0.5194598111,0.4895208941,0.4823481336,0.08 7215157,0.1503391032

[Celine]

Zagorje. <3

[Jana]

As Croat Bih is about 11% of general popualtion and similar to Croat_Croat, total result sis nearly idenrical to Croat_Croat.

28.3678157707,33.2534411855,15.017322291,7.8229668 587,11.5986646244,1.4255678766,0.5413450291,0.2546 572515,0.5194598111,0.4895208941,0.4823481336,0.08 7215157,0.1503391032

Cool! If you ask me, you can add this Croat average you made :)

[Lucas]

Nice! That is only counting Croatian regions, right? Than it should be named Croat_Croatia.
Croat should be mix of Croat_Croatia (4.29 million) and BiH Croat (544,780)

Is that doable?

Yes I added Croat and Croat_Croatia to Vahaduo K13 too.

[Jana]

Yes I added Croat and Croat_Croatia to Vahaduo K13 too.

Thank you so much! :)

[vbnetkhio]

i found this data from 1921.

Number of Croats is Serbo-Croatian speakers minus the number of orthodox christians, and for Bosnia it's just the number of Catholics.
the data for Istria is missing because it was a part of Italy at the time. i'll try to find that data too.

no. of Croats
Bjelovar-Križevci 256549
Varaždin-grad 11355
Varaždin 286418
Osijek-grad 15971
Virovitica 133806
Zagreb-grad 82439
Karlovac 13670
Zagreb 366637
Lika-Krbava 94663
Modruš-Rijeka 144700
Požega 146115
Medjimurje 92699
Krk-Kastav 27340
total continental Croatia 1672362

Dalmatia 505191

Banja-Luka 95202
Bihac 12095
Mostar 114087
Sarajevo 52333
Travnik 110274
Tuzla 60318
total B&H 444309

edit: 168,116 Serbo-Croatian speakers in Istria in 1910.

now some smaller pieces like Zadar and Baranja are missing, you can research that if you want, i think this is accurate enough.

[vbnetkhio]

i tried to divide it according to the territorial division of your averages.
Bosnian counties don't follow the Krajina/proper Bosnia division, so i would just add all the individuals from Bosnia into a single average, and then weigh that.
Srem county includes a big part of today's Slavonia so i included that too.

Bjelovar-Križevci 256549
Zagreb-grad 82439
Karlovac 13670
Zagreb 366637
Central Croatia 719295

Varaždin-grad 11355
Varaždin 286418
Medjimurje 92699
NW Croatia 390472

Osijek-grad 15971
Virovitica 133806
Požega 146115
Zemun-grad 2685
Srijem 104042
Slavonia 402619

Lika-Krbava 94663

Modruš-Rijeka 68168
Krk-Kastav 27340
Istria 168116
Istria-Kvarner 263624

Gorski Kotar 76532

Dalmatia 505191

Banja-Luka 95202
Bihac 12095
Sarajevo 52333
Travnik 110274
Tuzla 60318
Bosnia West+Proper 330222

Mostar(Herzegovina) 114087

[Jana]

Thanks a lot! If even better average can be made, great! Feel free to add. Otherwise I'm already happy and really greateful for help.

You guys are awesome! Cheers :)

[Lucas]

i tried to divide it according to the territorial division of your averages.
Bosnian counties don't follow the Krajina/proper Bosnia division, so i would just add all the individuals from Bosnia into a single average, and then weigh that.
Srem county includes a big part of today's Slavonia so i included that too.

Bjelovar-Križevci 256549
Zagreb-grad 82439
Karlovac 13670
Zagreb 366637
Central Croatia 719295

Varaždin-grad 11355
Varaždin 286418
Medjimurje 92699
NW Croatia 390472

Osijek-grad 15971
Virovitica 133806
Požega 146115
Zemun-grad 2685
Srijem 104042
Slavonia 402619

Lika-Krbava 94663

Modruš-Rijeka 68168
Krk-Kastav 27340
Istria 168116
Istria-Kvarner 263624

Gorski Kotar 76532

Dalmatia 505191

Banja-Luka 95202
Bihac 12095
Sarajevo 52333
Travnik 110274
Tuzla 60318
Bosnia West+Proper 330222

Mostar(Herzegovina) 114087

Can you do it according to my method? Interesting if will be a huge diference.

[gixajo]

Population according to last censuses:

Croatia total - 4.29 million

Slavonia - 806,192
Dalmatia - 852,068
Istria - 209,020
Central Croatia - 1 million and 790 000
Gorski kotar - 28 000
Zagorje 300 000
Lika-Senj 45 000
Kvarner 255 000

BiH Croats - 544,780

Add an aproximative corrector factor to every regional average , multiplying every regional coordinate by it, and make the correspondent average.
Coordinates CF
---------------- ---------
Slavonia - X8
Dalmatia - X9
Istria - X2
Central Croatia X18
Gorski kotar X0.5
Zagorje X3
Lika-Senj X0.5
Kvarner X3

BiH Croats X5

And the divide by the total sum of course = 49 (in the proposed CF)

You can use more accurate corrector factor if you want, but with those ones would be enough accurate.

Edit:sorry i misread the Central Croatia total population, I corrected it.

[gixajo]

Croat total weighted according to frequencies of region population in total population:


Croat,28.6443997424,33.3638665005,14.9490138101,7. 7578279311,11.3500726117,1.4089526703,0.5303876731 ,0.2502890466,0.5243368664,0.493169544,0.498705768 1,0.089342873,0.1577967451

Process of making:) Of course Central Croatia is about 41% so have biggest impact on average. Kotor lowest.

]

Sorry, I didn´t read your post.

[Lucas]

Sorry, I didn´t read your post.

No problem, your method probably give the same results. I like use spreadsheets simply.

[vbnetkhio]

Can you do it according to my method? Interesting if will be a huge diference.

here:
Croat,28.40,33.22,14.89,7.81,11.70,1.47,0.53,0.28, 0.53,0.51,0.44,0.09,0.13
Croat_Croatia,28.75,33.31,14.82,7.80,11.35,1.45,0. 52,0.28,0.51,0.53,0.45,0.10,0.14
Croat_B&H,26.50,32.67,15.27,7.90,13.63,1.58,0.61,0.26,0.61 ,0.40,0.37,0.05,0.09

[Leto]

So much attention to the minutiae (32 percent Baltic or 33) while everyone is pretty much indifferent to the generic 'Croat' reference on Dodecad. xD I have no idea what kind of samples were used for it.
Wouldn't be a great deal of modern Croats mixed by now and no longer confined to small communities?

[vbnetkhio]

So much attention to the minutiae (32 percent Baltic or 33) while everyone is pretty much indifferent to the generic 'Croat' reference on Dodecad. xD I have no idea what kind of samples were used for it.
Wouldn't be a great deal of modern Croats mixed by now and no longer confined to small communities?

i think it was made by somebody on TA. there are no Croats in the official dodecad oracle.

[Leto]

i think it was made by somebody on TA. there are no Croats in the official dodecad oracle.
I saw it in a Turkish spreadsheet, so I doubt it's from TA. More likely from Anthrogenica.

[Lucas]

I saw it in a Turkish spreadsheet, so I doubt it's from TA. More likely from Anthrogenica.

I can start Dodecad run on academic Croats if you want?

[Leto]

I can start Dodecad run on academic Croats if you want?
Nah, first I need a decent Polish average. The Croat one is okay, I think.

[Peterski]

Nah, first I need a decent Polish average.

Also a weighted average?

[gixajo]

Can I ask where or how do you find every region samples? Do you pick them from Gedmatch ?

I want to do the same you are doing but with Spanish and Portuguese samples, and maybe try to "transform" k13 cordinates in G25.

But until August 29 I will not be able to work on all this unfortunately.

[Jana]

My father's updated results...closest to overall Croat average which makes sense because his results are uber typical and he is mix of almost all main regions!

Distance to: Feiichy_Father(50%_Dalmatia_+_25%_Bosnia_+_12.5%_C entral_Croatia_+_12.5%_Zagorje)

2.64686607 Croat
2.78574945 Croat_Croatia
3.00935209 Croat_Croatia_Lika-Senj
3.22494021 Hungarian_Alfold
3.22899365 Croat_B&H_Bosnia
3.43129713 Croat_B&H_West_Bosnia
3.46449130 Croat_B&H
3.50109983 Croat_Slavonia
3.60272119 Croat_Croatia_Dalmatia
3.76193260 Hungarian
3.82510131 Moldova_North
3.86860440 Croat_Istria_&_Kvarner
3.90891289 Serb_B&H_Northeast&Central
4.05362259 Slovenian
4.09924495 Hungarian_Transylvania
4.32447685 Croat_Croatia_Central
4.32868340 Croat_Croatia_Gorski_Kotar
4.41056686 Serb_B&H
4.48023785 Hungarian_Budapest
4.56132656 Bosniak
4.71285448 Hungarian_Szekely
4.88577145 Bosniak_Sarajevo
4.89108972 Hungarian_Transdanubia
4.89438454 Croat_B&H_Herzegovina
4.96456443 Serb_Croatia_Kordun&Banija

[Jana]

Can I ask where or how do you find every region samples? Do you pick them from Gedmatch ?

I want to do the same you are doing but with Spanish and Portuguese samples, and maybe try to "transform" k13 cordinates in G25.

But until August 29 I will not be able to work on all this unfortunately.

Really hard work. TA and some Croatian forum members, some academic sheets and mainly, sending mails to gedmatch matches that appear Croatian to ask them about their background.