Yamnaya were not Mongoloids

[Celto-Germanic]

There's a common argument that the ancestors of the Yamna were mongoloids because mal'ta buret' had asian DNA, but there's no trace of any significant mongoloid-specific DNA in the yamna burials, admixture charts show as much - there is a large chunk of DNA possessed by Mal'ta and other asian/siberian mongoloid populations that Yamnaya do not. Almost all of the asian peoples who do have Mal'ta linked DNA, like the Altai Turks and the Ket, often have strong caucasiform tendencies.


https://s3.amazonaws.com/libapps/accounts/57150/images/Ket_speakers__cropped_.jpg

http://sdld.narod.ru/img/gallery/Picture31.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zA4RfzLhM1M/S65cN4VfDuI/AAAAAAAAAAc/jELDzxJ_SuA/s1600/ket%20shaman.jpg



And the Yana river people, who predate and are genetically linked to mal'ta (and by extension Yamna) have no mongoloid ancestry either, and their lack of inbreeding is a strong implication that there were more of them and they were much more widespread in eastern siberia. If anything, it was Mal'ta who were mongoloidised, not the other way around.


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/06/05/17/14410812-7108523-image-m-8_1559752094824.jpg

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190605133524.htm

>Professor Laurent Excoffier from the University of Bern, Switzerland, said: "Remarkably, the Ancient North Siberians people are more closely related to Europeans than Asians and seem to have migrated all the way from Western Eurasia soon after the divergence between Europeans and Asians."

[Creoda]

Of course. Many people still can't handle the idea that Indo-Europeans were....European.

[dududud]

Of course. Many people still can't handle the idea that Indo-Europeans were....European.

Like Anatolians Hunter Gatherer.

But currently, there is no longer a "pure" Indo-European.

[Chris596]

That's good I guess.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/787/992/db9.jpg

[dududud]

BTW, go to watch SurviveTheJive videos about Yamnayas.

[PaleoEuropean]

The Yamnaya are mixed Iranian and Central Asian, proportion of DNA is not an indicator of anything for a mixed people as DNA inheritance is 100% random. That is like saying Someone who's 10x Grandfather was not Irish even though he came from Ireland because his descendant has like 1-2% Irish DNA. Caucasoid features mean absolutely nothing, there are Asians with Caucasoid features which is why Caucasoid and White are two very different things. Without true Aryans (Iranians) Indo-Aryans would just be mongoloid. They entered Europe already heavily mixed and their cultures are a result of that mixing.

[Ülev]

Komido-phobes

[PaleoEuropean]

Komido-phobes

KOMID POWER

[Celto-Germanic]

The Yamnaya are mixed Iranian and Central Asian

Next to none of the Yamna possessed the stereotypically mongoloid or asian genetic admixture found in modern Kazakhs and Central asians. None. Zero. Zip, zilch. The Yamna physically looked like Mediterraneans and North Europeans, not like Mongoloids, and there is no genetic evidence that their ancestors were mongoloid beyond Mal'ta, who already had strong caucasoid features. And the ancestors of the Mal'ta were West Eurasians, and there is no direct evidence that Yamna originated from Mal'ta specifically, only that they are genetically close.


Caucasoid features mean absolutely nothing, there are Asians with Caucasoid features which is why Caucasoid and White are two very different things.
And the majority of those Asians have Mal'ta or other caucasoid ancestry. So they do mean something, especially when they show up consistently in the population.


Without true Aryans (Iranians) Indo-Aryans would just be mongoloid.

That is a fallacious argument as I have repeatedly pointed out. Also, there is a lot of recent evidence supporting the idea that the indo-iranians are a backwards migration from the Corded Ware, not Yamnaya

[NPKTO]

The Yamnaya are mixed Iranian and Central Asian, proportion of DNA is not an indicator of anything for a mixed people as DNA inheritance is 100% random. That is like saying Someone who's 10x Grandfather was not Irish even though he came from Ireland because his descendant has like 1-2% Irish DNA. Caucasoid features mean absolutely nothing, there are Asians with Caucasoid features which is why Caucasoid and White are two very different things. Without true Aryans (Iranians) Indo-Aryans would just be mongoloid. They entered Europe already heavily mixed and their cultures are a result of that mixing.
Yamnaya was 60% EHG, 35% CHG, 5% EEF or something similar to that. Its from Pontic Caspian Steppe, North of Caucasus.

[Ion Basescul]

The Yamna physically looked like Mediterraneans and North Europeans, not like Mongoloids

Med, maybe, but arguably not considering that genetically Yamnaya were about 45% Euro HG, 45% Caucasus HG and the rest a mix of Farmer and some Amerindian-like Siberian signature.


<tbody>
Sample
Population
Date
Skin
Hair
Eyes

</tbody>

<tbody>
I0440
Poltavka BA
2885–2665 BC
Light
Black
Brown


I0432
Poltavka BA
2925–2536 BC
NA
NA
Brown


I0371
Poltavka BA
2875–2580 BC
NA
Black
Brown


I0374
Poltavka BA
2800–2200 BC
Light
Black
Brown

</tbody>

<tbody>
I0429
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3339–2917 BC
NA
Black
Brown


I0357
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3090–2910 BC
NA
NA
Brown


I0370
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3300–2700 BC
Medium
Black
Brown


I0443
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3300–2700 BC
Light
Black
Brown


I0444
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3300–2700 BC
Light
Black
Brown


RISE 550
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3334–2635 BC
Light
NA
NA


I0231
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
2910–2875 BC
Light
Black
Brown


I0438
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3021–2635 BC
NA
D-brown/ Black
Brown


I0441
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3010–2622 BC
Light
NA
NA


RISE 547
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
2887–2634 BC
Light
NA
Brown


RISE 240
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
2880–2632 BC
Light
NA
Brown


RISE 548
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
3000–2400 BC
Light
Black
Brown


RISE 552
Pit Grave RU LCEBA
2849–2143 BC
Light
Black
Brown

</tbody>

They started to look more pan-European after mixing with local Farmers in Europe, who by that time were mixed heavily with Hunter Gatherers in some places like Globular Amphora culture.


<tbody>
I2441
Globular Amphora N
3400–2800 BC
Light
Blond
Blue


I2433
Globular Amphora N
3100–2900 BC
NA
Blond/ D-blond
Blue


I2435
Globular Amphora N
3100–2900 BC
NA
NA
Blue


ILK 003
Globular Amphora N
2900–2709 BC
Light
D-blond/ Brown
Blue


ILK 001
Globular Amphora N
2899–2706 BC
Light
D-blond/ Brown
Brown


ILK 002
Globular Amphora N
2890–2694 BC
Light
Blond/ D-blond
Blue

</tbody>

And after receiving that Farmer+HG admixture in Europe, their looks started to resemble the diversity of modern Europeans.


<tbody>
RISE 00
Corded Ware EE LN
2800–2300 BC
Light
Black
Brown


Kunila 2
Corded Ware EE LN
2626–2390 BC
Light
Black
Brown


Ardu 1
Corded Ware EE LN
2850–2050 BC
Light
NA
Brown


Kunila 1
Corded Ware EE LN
2850–2050 BC
Medium
NA
Brown


I0550
Karsdorf LN
2570–2471 BC
NA
NA
Brown


Plinkaigalis 242
Corded Ware LT LN
3260–2630 BC
Light
Black
Brown


Gyvakarai 1
Corded Ware LT LN
2620–2470 BC
Light
D-blond/ Brown
Blue


Spiginas 2
Corded Ware LT LN
2130–1750 BC
NA
Red
Blue


RISE 446
Corded Ware DE CA
2829–2465 BC
Light
NA
NA


I0103
Corded Ware DE CA
2578–2468 BC
Light
D-brown/ Black
Brown


I1539
Corded Ware DE CA
2625–2291 BC
NA
NA
Brown


I0104
Corded Ware DE CA
2559–2296 BC
Light
D-blond/ Brown
Brown


I0049
Corded Ware DE CA
2464–2210 BC
NA
NA
Brown


I1532
Corded Ware DE CA
2500–2050 BC
Light
NA
Blue


I1540
Corded Ware DE CA
2500–2050 BC
Light
NA
NA


I1541
Corded Ware DE CA
2500–2050 BC
NA
D-brown/ Black
Brown



</tbody>


<tbody>
I3528
Bell Beaker HU CA
2559–2301 BC
NA
NA
Blue


I3529
Bell Beaker HU CA
2500–2200 BC
NA
Black
Brown


I4178
Bell Beaker HU CA
2500–2200 BC
Light
D-brown/ Black
Brown


I7044
Bell Beaker HU CA
2500–2200 BC
Light
Blond/ D-blond
Blue


I7045
Bell Beaker HU CA
2500–2200 BC
NA
D-brown/ Black
Brown


I2365
Bell Beaker HU CA
2464–2207 BC
Light
D-blond/ Brown
Brown


I2786
Bell Beaker HU CA
2458–2205 BC
NA
D-brown/ Black
Inter-mediate


I2787
Bell Beaker HU CA
2457–2201 BC
Light
Red
Brown


I2741
Bell Beaker HU CA
2457–2153 BC
Light
D-brown/ Black
Brown


I2364
Bell Beaker HU CA
2468–2063 BC
NA
D-brown/ Black
Brown


</tbody>

[NPKTO]

Target: Yamnaya_UKR
Distance: 6.1318% / 0.06131802
58.6 RUS_Samara_HG
28.8 GEO_CHG
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Ion Basescul]

Target: Yamnaya_UKR
Distance: 6.1318% / 0.06131802
58.6 RUS_Samara_HG
28.8 GEO_CHG
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Perhaps the qpAdm runs that researchers revealed in their studies is better here than playing with arbitrary PCA vectors :lol:

https://i.ibb.co/HCt2Khr/image.png

Source: https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/Wang_2019_NatureC.pdf

[NPKTO]

Perhaps the qpAdm runs that researchers revealed in their studies is better here than playing with arbitrary PCA vectors :lol:

https://i.ibb.co/HCt2Khr/image.png

Source: https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/Wang_2019_NatureC.pdf
They basically tell the same story.

[catgeorge]

very little WHG but alot of EHG makes Yamnaya chinks.

[Rocinante]

Only a fool would think that yamnayas looked like actual mongoloids, when mongoloids have near 0 yamnaya related ancestry. They were similar like actual CWC and Bell Beaker reconstructions, just google them and make yourself an idea.

[catgeorge]

Only a fool would think that yamnayas looked like actual mongoloids, when mongoloids have near 0 yamnaya related ancestry. They were similar like actual CWC and Bell Beaker reconstructions, just google them and make yourself an idea.

Keep coping Yamnaya were Asiatics.

[Rocinante]

Keep coping Yamnaya were Asiatics.

European and Asian border were not established in these times, but yes, some of them were actually in Asia. What is known for sure is that the most swarthy and faggots were carrying the R-Z2103.

[Zoro]

There's a common argument that the ancestors of the Yamna were mongoloids because mal'ta buret' had asian DNA, but there's no trace of any significant mongoloid-specific DNA in the yamna burials, admixture charts show as much - there is a large chunk of DNA possessed by Mal'ta and other asian/siberian mongoloid populations that Yamnaya do not. Almost all of the asian peoples who do have Mal'ta linked DNA, like the Altai Turks and the Ket, often have strong caucasiform tendencies.


https://s3.amazonaws.com/libapps/accounts/57150/images/Ket_speakers__cropped_.jpg

http://sdld.narod.ru/img/gallery/Picture31.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zA4RfzLhM1M/S65cN4VfDuI/AAAAAAAAAAc/jELDzxJ_SuA/s1600/ket%20shaman.jpg



And the Yana river people, who predate and are genetically linked to mal'ta (and by extension Yamna) have no mongoloid ancestry either,"

That's not what he says. This is what he says


This discovery was based on the DNA analysis of a 10,000 year-old male remains found at a site near the Kolyma River in Siberia. The individual derives his ancestry from a mixture of Ancient North Siberian DNA and East Asian DNA, which is very similar to that found in Native Americans. It is the first time human remains this closely related to the Native American populations have been discovered outside of the US.


Remarkably, the Ancient North Siberians people are more closely related to Europeans than Asians and seem to have migrated all the way from Western Eurasia soon after the divergence between Europeans and Asians

He's saying more closely. He doesn't say not related to E Asians.


Ancient North Eurasians are not E Asians but they do have a claim to being N Asian. They have been there since 30,000 years ago. Therefore, EHG or Yamnaya are also partly N Asian.

Who exactly are native Europeans. Are they:

1- People related to Kostenki14 who lack the Basal Eurasian modern Europeans got from Anatolia-N and CHG from W Asia ?

2- Are they people who now live in Europe who carry WHG and W Asian genes from Anatolia-N and CHG and N Asian genes from ANE?

3- Are they the Anatolian farmers that roamed Europe 8000 years ago such as LBK ?

4- Are they Loschbour-WHG who are mostly ancient European with a little of EHG ?

5- Are they Paleolithic Europeans related to Bichon who were unadmixed Europeans since 20,000 years ago ?


From the above 5 I would say Bichon fits the definition best. If that's the case then no inhabitant of Europe today is a true 100% native European.


BTW From the Tiyanuan paper there were people related to E Asians living in Europe in the Paleolithic. They were GoyetQ-116 and had Y-DNA M which is found in E Asia and Native Americans and S Asians but not in present Europeans. Some Europeans probably have ancestry from them.



https://i.imgur.com/IjbytaG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ztohAMV.jpg

[vbnetkhio]

Perhaps the qpAdm runs that researchers revealed in their studies is better here than playing with arbitrary PCA vectors :lol:

https://i.ibb.co/HCt2Khr/image.png

Source: https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/Wang_2019_NatureC.pdf

NPKTO's model is very similar to the model from the study, lol

[Maguzanci]

There's a common argument that the ancestors of the Yamna were mongoloids because mal'ta buret' had asian DNA, but there's no trace of any significant mongoloid-specific DNA in the yamna burials, admixture charts show as much - there is a large chunk of DNA possessed by Mal'ta and other asian/siberian mongoloid populations that Yamnaya do not. Almost all of the asian peoples who do have Mal'ta linked DNA, like the Altai Turks and the Ket, often have strong caucasiform tendencies.


https://s3.amazonaws.com/libapps/accounts/57150/images/Ket_speakers__cropped_.jpg

http://sdld.narod.ru/img/gallery/Picture31.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zA4RfzLhM1M/S65cN4VfDuI/AAAAAAAAAAc/jELDzxJ_SuA/s1600/ket%20shaman.jpg



And the Yana river people, who predate and are genetically linked to mal'ta (and by extension Yamna) have no mongoloid ancestry either, and their lack of inbreeding is a strong implication that there were more of them and they were much more widespread in eastern siberia. If anything, it was Mal'ta who were mongoloidised, not the other way around.


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/06/05/17/14410812-7108523-image-m-8_1559752094824.jpg

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190605133524.htm

>Professor Laurent Excoffier from the University of Bern, Switzerland, said: "Remarkably, the Ancient North Siberians people are more closely related to Europeans than Asians and seem to have migrated all the way from Western Eurasia soon after the divergence between Europeans and Asians."

So ancient north siberians like yana and later malta buret is where Native Americans especially Northern ones like Plain Indians get their Caucasoid features from.

[Maguzanci]

That's not what he says. This is what he says





He's saying more closely. He doesn't say not related to E Asians.


Ancient North Eurasians are not E Asians but they do have a claim to being N Asian. They have been there since 30,000 years ago. Therefore, EHG or Yamnaya are also partly N Asian.

Who exactly are native Europeans. Are they:

1- People related to Kostenki14 who lack the Basal Eurasian modern Europeans got from Anatolia-N and CHG from W Asia ?

2- Are they people who now live in Europe who carry WHG and W Asian genes from Anatolia-N and CHG and N Asian genes from ANE?

3- Are they the Anatolian farmers that roamed Europe 8000 years ago such as LBK ?

4- Are they Loschbour-WHG who are mostly ancient European with a little of EHG ?

5- Are they Paleolithic Europeans related to Bichon who were unadmixed Europeans since 20,000 years ago ?


From the above 5 I would say Bichon fits the definition best. If that's the case then no inhabitant of Europe today is a true 100% native European.


BTW From the Tiyanuan paper there were people related to E Asians living in Europe in the Paleolithic. They were GoyetQ-116 and had Y-DNA M which is found in E Asia and Native Americans and S Asians but not in present Europeans. Some Europeans probably have ancestry from them.



https://i.imgur.com/IjbytaG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ztohAMV.jpg

Is ANE/Malta Buret actually a predominant West Eurasian component (albeit a very archaic one) with some East Eurasian affinities? Does this means Native Americans actually have West Eurasian ancestry?