What if it's already over?

[Magister Eckhart]

There are a lot of places on this forum I feel like I could have posted this thread and it would have been appropriate, but I felt "Current Affairs and Ideas" was probably the best.

The thought recently occurred to me after re-reading Spengler and doing some date-checking, I found myself drawing many parallels between Western Civilisation and Mohammedan Civilisation, as well as with the Classical World and the Egyptians. The more I did this the more I felt Spengler's dates were off by a few centuries, and in some cases his points of diversion were flawed. Then a thought struck me that genuinely scared me: what if Spengler is wrong? What if everyone claiming we're in a state of decay is wrong? This thought is not frightening because of the damage it does to this man's reputation whom I hold in such high regard. Rather, it is frightening because of its implications. For, indeed, the thesis I am suggesting is far more grim than anything Spengler ever thought.

For almost a century, culturally-aware individuals have been writing as if we Westerners are in the last act of our particular life-drama, and either suggest we face the curtain with dignity or fight to keep the play going. I suggest now, however, that the curtain has already fallen and we have been painfully unaware of it, and no one in the audience is calling for an encore.

I suggest that the driving force of Western Civilisation has been the perception of the Divine in human eyes, and specifically the Germanic, or Faustian, religious experience, which began its decline, if you watch European philosophy, right around the time of Hobbes, and finally died off as a culturally shaping force with the First World War. Of course, we see antiquarian movements seeking to replicate the old West and prolong the era of Romanticism in the 1920s through 1940s, but after 1945 even this imitation of old cultural forms completely dies off, and the only thing that survives is the utterly secular Cult of the State. The Western God is truly dead now, and what little effect He still had in shaping civilisation as a whole in the 19th century has finally faded away, and been confined to the minority, the "fringe".

In 1975, Patrick Buchanan complained that while "conservatives" were winning elections consistently in the United States, "liberal" agendas were being advanced. Buchanan may have simply missed the boat; what's to say "conservatives" (i.e. pro-West thinkers) even have the ability to affect any cultural outcome in what once was the West? Why assume that the United States represents anything culturally alive at all?

I cannot provide an answer to those questions. After 1965, it seems to me there is no real answer to either of those questions. Conservatives in the United States speak of the 1960s as if they were the beginning of the end. I cannot help but think they were the end, plain and simple.

To illustrate my thesis, I will offer you some of the dates I believe mark major civilisation-ending events in History. First of all, we begin with the Egyptians, who rise with Djoser in 2700 BC (approx.) and enter steady decline after the reign of Akhentaten (1353-1336 BC). The whole culture ceases to have meaning with the death of Ramses III in 1156 BC. This is a space of roughly 1500 years. Likewise, Classical civilisation sees the first light of day with the Dorians in circa 1200 BC, and begins its descent into death with the death of Augustus and the deification of the Emperor in AD 14. After this, it takes only three centuries for Constantine to declare Christianity the religion of the empire, after which the old Olympian form dies off completely, despite a brief "revival" under Julian. Again, we are looking at the space of about 1500 years. If we place the dawn of Western/Faustian civilisation at the evangelisation of the Germanic tribes by Wulfila in the AD 340s, when the Germanic spirit of the pre-historic pagan faith met and combined with Christianity, forming Western Christianity that would be the driving force of our Culture from the fourth to the fifteenth centuries AD, we will see that this comes to its end as a culturally driving force right around the rise of Louis XIV, with his declaration that he is the State.

Within a century of Augustus, we see the rise of Trajan, the last real revival of the Olympian ethos-- the last gasp of the entire civilisation. Likewise, 100 years after Akhenaten is Ramses II, revered as The Great Pharaoh. A century after Louis XIV, we see the Christian revivalist movements under Wesley and his Methodist movement, which quickly peters out. By 1914 AD, the rise of mechanised warfare and the death of the Faustian God becomes complete, and in 1918 not a single European nation walks away from the War without a feeling of defeat. Even America, which thrives in the "roaring '20s" has enduring expressions only of decadence and collapse. Also in 1914, we see the completion of a roughly 1500-year span of history that began with Wulfila in the middle of the fourth century AD.

The parallels between the three certainly suggest something very grim about our entire civilisation and the society we live in today. Many are asked the question "how can we preserve the West?" Perhaps the question we should be asking is "is there anything to preserve?" I fear the answer is "no".

[Wulfhere]

Just content yourself with the knowledge that future societies, perhaps a very long time from now, will look back on ours and envy its decadence, its wealth, its profligacy, as people look back on Imperial Rome. But unlike Rome, we are so rich, that we have been able to spread that indulgence out amongst the masses. Such a society cannot survive indefinitely, but then no society can. Make the most of it.

[Osweo]

I have previously mentioned Gumilyov, as a Russian counterpart to Spengler. And one rather less gloomy. A chapter in one of his books is 'Konets i Vnov Nachalo'. Hard to translate in as snappy a phrase as the original, but 'the end, and yet, the Beginning'.

Perhaps the beginning is already underway, in a more or less nascent state, to be more apparent in a generation or so?

Either way, defeatism is gay.

[Logan]

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Churchill

[BeerBaron]

The curtain has already fallen on the west, the birth rates are to low and the west cannot assimilate wogs, so the future will be either Chinese or Islamic. neither is preferable, though I would like to see the 2 at war with one another in the future, it is a possible prospect.

[Edelmann]

I doubt very much that the early medievals knew that they were in a dark age. It's much the same with us, I like to imagine.

[Curtis24]

No, because what nobody wants to say, is that the West is still racially superior. We still have the raw materiel to make a comeback. In the case of those other civilizations that fell, they had to contend with people who were either racially equal to them, or superior. The West has no equals.

That being said, it is clear that there will be some kind of civil war or political revolution.

[Curtis24]

Also, if you're just talking about culture, of course the WEst has been dead for quite some time now.

[Magister Eckhart]

Just content yourself with the knowledge that future societies, perhaps a very long time from now, will look back on ours and envy its decadence, its wealth, its profligacy, as people look back on Imperial Rome. But unlike Rome, we are so rich, that we have been able to spread that indulgence out amongst the masses. Such a society cannot survive indefinitely, but then no society can. Make the most of it.

We are in the unique position to look over all the earth and all civilisations and see how ours falls into the paradigm. This sort of position can be encouraging because it allows us to take advantage of the post/pre-historical period we presently occupy to actively engage ourselves in or at the very least look for the next major civilisation to inhabit our geographic space.

I am not beyond giving this one to Mohammedan Civilisation, but the Mohammedan grew up practically parallel to the Faustian, and I would put the death of the Mohammedan Civilisation no later than AD 2150. This being the case we can hardly call them "inheritors" so much as "conquerers", in much the same way that the West, already entering its decrepit Civilisation phase conquered the Mexican Civilisation. By the next century, though, both Mohammedans and Westerners will be completely felaheen, just as the Egyptians were in the age of Rome, which means that we must look to another group for the possibility of a new Culture.


I have previously mentioned Gumilyov, as a Russian counterpart to Spengler. And one rather less gloomy. A chapter in one of his books is 'Konets i Vnov Nachalo'. Hard to translate in as snappy a phrase as the original, but 'the end, and yet, the Beginning'.

Perhaps the beginning is already underway, in a more or less nascent state, to be more apparent in a generation or so?

Either way, defeatism is gay.

I usually consider Danilevsky to be Spengler's Russian counterpart, but then I have read very little Gumilyov. See above for further comments. Also, I don't think recognition of reality (if I am right, and I don't want to be) is "defeatism".


The curtain has already fallen on the west, the birth rates are to low and the west cannot assimilate wogs, so the future will be either Chinese or Islamic. neither is preferable, though I would like to see the 2 at war with one another in the future, it is a possible prospect.

This is generally the attitude most take, but again Mohammedanism is nearly spent and China is in no position to create a new culture, being as it is in a culturally stagnant phase. We're not talking about one political power falling to another, though; what I'm talking about is entire civilisations collapsing and being subsumed. Rome didn't fall politically speaking until 1453, but culturally the Classical world was already dead in 313. Political events serve as good indicators sometimes, but that's all they are: indicators--they are never significant in themselves.

Perhaps the new culture will come from the United States; we have, after all, never really developed our own national culture and have grown up intrinsically linked to the West. There may be potential here, though I am unsure in what way. Generally speaking, we're looking at a highly negrified society, and the beginning of Mohammedan decline was the conversion of Sub-Saharan Africa. I have not determined in what way exactly Mohammedanism was affected by this, but the beginning of decline can be pinpointed to the 1860s-1880s, which would place the "Islamic Revival" of Ayatolla Khomeini of the 1970s at exactly the 150-year mark at which we see Trajan, Wesley, and Ramesses II - the "last gasp" of the cultural drive in the midst of Civilisation. The Muslim Brotherhood at this point is roughly equivalent to the "Second Great Awakening" or Marcus Aurelius. We need to see if there will be a "Third Great Awakening" or a Diocletian among the Mohammedans in the 21st century that will lead to their ultimate demise in the 22nd.


I doubt very much that the early medievals knew that they were in a dark age. It's much the same with us, I like to imagine.

Largely because the Early Medievals were in fact in a Golden Age at the birth of our Culture. The same could never be said of us.

[Kataphraktoi]

Thoughtful post, I have never read Spengler but I am reminded of C.S. Lewis's "First Things and Second Things" principle. The "perception of the Divine in human eyes", as you say, being the First Thing and Western Civilisation being the Second Thing. Since we have thrown out the First Thing, we are bound to lose the Second Thing as well; and according to this principle, you cannot pursue the second thing as if it were the first which is what we as 'preservationists' are doing. If you do, you will destroy the very thing you want to save. Johan Huizinga wrote "one can only speak of culture when the ideal dominating it transgresses the interests of the community claiming the possession of culture. Culture must have its ultimate aim in the metaphysical or it will cease to be culture." 'Western Civilisation' is a by-product, not a purposeful creation.

Whittaker Chambers wrote, "it is idle to talk about preventing the wreck of Western civilisation. It is already a wreck from within." This is true: we are destroying ourselves; materialism, democracy, liberalism, socialism, communism, etc. were all products of Western Civilisation.

Western Civilisation is not a stable thing that really can be 'preserved', and it never has been. It has been changing for centuries, we've gone through pagan Greco-Romanism, Christian Byzantinism, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and Modernism - all wildly different.

I believe that Truth is eternal and unchanging, contrary to Hegel and historicism, what we now call "Western values" are of mere contemporary relevance; we must search for the eternal relevance and Truth which is the only way to save the West.

[Turkey]

Of course it's over.

That's what I've been yelling about all this time.

We are going to be communist states with functioning gulags before the end of our lifetimes and this is why....

Very few of the racially aware women on all these site have rejected the thrills of the current no-responsibilty situation they are in. They are free to explore their hypergamic nature without natural limits.

What if I had a chance to explore my natural polygamus nature to the limit with no personal consequences or responsiblity?
Imagine if I was on a desert island with ten sterile women. Would I be wanting to be rescued so I could return to normal life and preserve european people. No bloody way!

Thanks to the birth control pil and feminism, women are in the equivilent of this state. Women don't really want poligamy. They want serial monogamy: hypergamy:Moving from one male to the next. It's basically the same thing as we want but just a little different.

You imagine if every white male had the chance of living on a desert island with no challengers, just one man, ten girls. Or alternatively come back to normal society. You stay on the island wouldn't you. most would. And as time went on even more would.

Well, YOUNG women are living that dream today. And guess what people. They aint giving it up. For any race, Aryan or otherwise. And I don't blame them. If anyone can get a shred of pleasure in the universe they should hold on to it like grim death.

The thirty pieces of silver have been thrown and accepted. The deal is done.

I'm seriously considering not registering any future children and grandchildren(especially). By the time the gulags are set up, the authorities will be scouring the countryside for young workers. I'll be living in the hills, have fun in the gulag!

How can a country in unpayable debt still consider to own itself?:confused:

We won't stop globalisation or other countries growing into us.:)

[Magister Eckhart]

Thoughtful post, I have never read Spengler but I am reminded of C.S. Lewis's "First Things and Second Things" principle. The "perception of the Divine in human eyes", as you say, being the First Thing and Western Civilisation being the Second Thing. Since we have thrown out the First Thing, we are bound to lose the Second Thing as well; and according to this principle, you cannot pursue the second thing as if it were the first which is what we as 'preservationists' are doing. If you do, you will destroy the very thing you want to save. Johan Huizinga wrote "one can only speak of culture when the ideal dominating it transgresses the interests of the community claiming the possession of culture. Culture must have its ultimate aim in the metaphysical or it will cease to be culture." 'Western Civilisation' is a by-product, not a purposeful creation.

All cultures and civilisations are, to use your words, by-products in the sense that no individual or group of individuals purposefully plans out and then executes a cultural plan. A Civilisation is an organic thing, really a huge organism to be sure, and therefore can only truly occur naturally and organically.

You can tell that I am in agreement with Lewis and Huizinga; ultimately what shapes a Civilisation in my theory is the way in which that Civilisation encounters the Divine. There is only one Divine - unchanging, pervading, and ineffable-- but men struggle with the way he encounters this Divinity, and so the organism known as Culture arises from the various kinds of men and their peculiar ways of approaching life, which is to say their peculiar ways of approaching God. It is as Spengler says, though, "'Mankind' is either a zoological concept or an empty word." (After Goethe, who proclaimed "'Mankind?' There is no such thing: there are and there only ever have been men.") In this regard, our particular type is defined by our culture and our civilisation, and the fact that we have lost the way to the Divine is the surest indicator that we have entered a post-historical period in our Civilisation and a pre-historical period of a later Civilisation. This is, at least, my estimation.

I know, of course, that Chesterton would be in staunch disagreement here, and I imagine Lewis would be too. Eliot might be more sympathetic.


Whittaker Chambers wrote, "it is idle to talk about preventing the wreck of Western civilisation. It is already a wreck from within." This is true: we are destroying ourselves; materialism, democracy, liberalism, socialism, communism, etc. were all products of Western Civilisation.

Western Civilisation, certainly, and they were products of Civilisation insofar as they were affronts to Culture. Really materialism, liberalism, and their offspring (like communism and social democracy) are recurring things in the history of cultures, and always mark a decline into civilisation.


Western Civilisation is not a stable thing that really can be 'preserved', and it never has been. It has been changing for centuries, we've gone through pagan Greco-Romanism, Christian Byzantinism, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the Enlightenment and Modernism - all wildly different.

This Ancient-Medieval-Modern scheme is fundamentally flawed, actually. We can in no way equate the worldview of early Western Culture (the so-called "Middle Ages") with the Classical/Olympian Civilisation (Rome 27 BC - AD 313). Furthermore, Byzantium represents an off-shoot, possibly even a felaheen incarnation of Rome, a sibling to Western Culture, not a form thereof. The "Renaissance", as it is called, is really the dividing point between Western Culture (c. 750-1614) and Western Civilisation (c. 1643-1914). It marks the beginning of the descent into humanism and therefore the very root of the godless Absolutism that arises out of the seventeenth century. The Renaissance, the "Enlightenment", and "Modernism" are in fact incredibly similar and all feed into one another; and, in fact, reflections of the so-called "Middle Ages" can be seen in all of them, though as through a glass, darkly.


I believe that Truth is eternal and unchanging, contrary to Hegel and historicism, what we now call "Western values" are of mere contemporary relevance; we must search for the eternal relevance and Truth which is the only way to save the West.

I agree, and see above for expansion of this idea. "Western values" as they are known in the popular parlance are in fact shams: nothing about the contemporary world is Western in terms of Western Culture -- quite the opposite, in fact. We have ceased to be a living civilisation because the cultural sovereign of our society is no longer native (i.e. Faustian Christianity) but foreign, i.e. Asiatic materialism and godlessness. This godlessness and materialism are certainly the end result of a culture, but they are at the same time inherently foreign and foreign-loving things. Xenophilia is the final phase of collapse: we see it with the Nubian Pharaohs of the 25th dynasty, the Christianity of Helena, Constantius, and Constantine, and now the atheism and scientism of the 19th century West and post-War Europe. Darwin is to the West, perhaps, what Constantine was to the Classical Civilisation.

[Curtis24]

Magister, it doesn't matter if they have a racial sense or not. The race still exists, and as long as that is true, the West still has profound advantages over other civilizations.

[Magister Eckhart]

Magister, it doesn't matter if they have a racial sense or not. The race still exists, and as long as that is true, the West still has profound advantages over other civilizations.

It's not so simple culturally speaking; a racial awareness is necessary for a race to truly be superior, for a culture to truly be assertive.

There are two men, one a great, strong man of proud bearing and muscular build, with the ability to build anything and to break anything; another is a tiny, conniving man who is feeble in body and in mind. These men, put into a fight, are not evenly matched: the strong man will crush the weak man. But give the strong man a stroke, or degenerative spinal disease, and then pit him against the weak man: the smaller man will win, because the great man is crippled.

This is what it means for a culture to be "racially aware" or aware of their own culture and to fight in defence of this: if the awareness no longer exists, the culture becomes sterile and senile, unable to defend itself against formerly inferior, formerly weak opponents. Ultimately, it is the man who has the strongest "racial awareness": i.e. who has the strongest race in the Spenglerian sense, who has the superior race. At this point, Western man does not possess any racial sense that would allow him to claim superiority.

[Boudica]

Sadly.. I fear that it is already over.. The thought of European preservation to the majority of people (at least in America) is RACIST, FASCIST, and some how Nazi related. It's sad, it truly is. I've only been alive for 20 years and I can see how much things are changing/have changed. Things are only becoming more liberal and "pro racial" by the second. It's disturbing. A good example of something that I experienced was when I was 14 a black boy who was on the football team wouldn't stop hitting on me at school. I told him to stop, but it only worsened. I eventually told him respectfully that I only dated white boys, and that it is the way of my family and the way that I have been brought up to be. I was then called racist, bla bla, and a "white bitch". I went to my teacher and told her that it was bothering me, etc and she said "well it seems like you are racist, many of the girls in the school would be flattered to have a date with him, it seems like it is because of his color".......

It's bullshit, but it's reality..

[SwordoftheVistula]

Probably headed into a long decline which will likely eventually erase the modern day 'nation states' in Europe and North America. We've had 'civilizations' destroyed before though, in Egypt, India, Sumeria, Tocharia, and probably older ones before that or other ones of which little to no traces remain.

It's not inevitable though. Things looked pretty bleak in Hungary in 1957 or the American South in 1866 or Ireland in 1916, and all those countries came back.

[Curtis24]

Was the teacher black?

[Curtis24]

There are two men, one a great, strong man of proud bearing and muscular build, with the ability to build anything and to break anything; another is a tiny, conniving man who is feeble in body and in mind. These men, put into a fight, are not evenly matched: the strong man will crush the weak man. But give the strong man a stroke, or degenerative spinal disease, and then pit himPut the two of them in a situation where only one can survive, and I think you'll see that the strong man finds his courage very quickly. against the weak man: the smaller man will win, because the great man is crippled

Put the two in a situation where only one can survive, and the strongman will find his courage very quickly.

[Joe McCarthy]

It's entirely possible that some breakthrough in astronomy, the applied sciences, or in the area of genetic engineering will make many of these worries moot. The problem is that the East has now successfully adapted Western technics, so the possibility that they may beat us to the punch in these advances could imperil our security. I can't think of a civilization that died of immigration or miscegenation. I can think of several that died through conquest.

[BeerBaron]

It's entirely possible that some breakthrough in astronomy, the applied sciences, or in the area of genetic engineering will make many of these worries moot. The problem is that the East has now successfully adapted Western technics, so the possibility that they may beat us to the punch in these advances could imperil our security. I can't think of a civilization that died of immigration or miscegenation. I can think of several that died through conquest.

It's also entirely possible that said discovery will happen in China.

Nano tech seems promising and could usher in many new industries and become a new "internet boom" so to speak.

NASA's meager budget is insulting, as is having to go to the European space agency to do certain things.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I can't think of a civilization that died of immigration or miscegenation. I can think of several that died through conquest.

That's because throughout history prior to the modern day 'west', immigration and miscegenation had to be enforced at the point of a sword through conquest, today people allow these things without a fight.

[Magister Eckhart]

Put the two in a situation where only one can survive, and the strongman will find his courage very quickly.

Courage won't regrow destroyed nerves in a spinal column. Race-feeling is organic, not something that can be "found" once a culture loses it, and we have certainly lost it.


It's entirely possible that some breakthrough in astronomy, the applied sciences, or in the area of genetic engineering will make many of these worries moot. The problem is that the East has now successfully adapted Western technics, so the possibility that they may beat us to the punch in these advances could imperil our security. I can't think of a civilization that died of immigration or miscegenation. I can think of several that died through conquest.

Egypt was not conquered by the Nubian dynasty that spelled the end of native Egyptian cultural generation; likewise Rome died long before the Barbarian "invasions". In almost every case, invasion took place only after decay from within had made such massive and drastic occurrences possible by removing all cultural defence mechanisms. The Vestal Fire was doused long before Odoacer took up residence in the Eternal City.

[Joe McCarthy]

Egypt was not conquered by the Nubian dynasty that spelled the end of native Egyptian cultural generation; likewise Rome died long before the Barbarian "invasions". In almost every case, invasion took place only after decay from within had made such massive and drastic occurrences possible by removing all cultural defence mechanisms. The Vestal Fire was doused long before Odoacer took up residence in the Eternal City.

The end of ancient Egypt, properly speaking, came with the Persian conquest, and by that time it wasn't so much a matter of Egypt fading as it was Persia being virile. 'Decline', so called, can only be measured concretely relative to rival civilizations. To speak of it in another way is a platitude, and to go further and speak of Rome's fall before it actually fell opens the way for psuedo-academic debates on when it died. WE are in decline now because rival civilizations are catching up with us, not because of gangsta rap, or other cultural corrosion, which frankly has existed in every civilization, including the unquestionably healthy ones.

[Curtis24]

Courage won't regrow destroyed nerves in a spinal column. Race-feeling is organic, not something that can be "found" once a culture loses it, and we have certainly lost it.



The only way that the white race can be permanently damaged is through a decrease in number. This has obviously happened to some degree, but we're still the majority in both America and Europe. The damage is not irreverisble.

[BeerBaron]

The only way that the white race can be permanently damaged is through a decrease in number. This has obviously happened to some degree, but we're still the majority in both America and Europe. The damage is not irreverisble.

Average white birthrate worldwide is around 1.4-1.6, historically no population has recovered from a birthrate below 1.8.

[Curtis24]

Average white birthrate worldwide is around 1.4-1.6, historically no population has recovered from a birthrate below 1.8.

You say "historically", what examples do we have to go by?

[Mercury]

Far from over. Science will one day be able to manipulate genetics perfectly. We'll be able to cure the naturally dumber races, and be able to tame people that are naturally aggressive. At that point-- who gives a shit about the white race? I wouldn't complain about other races, if they were as intelligent and peaceful as we are.

[Magister Eckhart]

Far from over. Science will one day be able to manipulate genetics perfectly. We'll be able to cure the naturally dumber races, and be able to tame people that are naturally aggressive. At that point-- who gives a shit about the white race? I wouldn't complain about other races, if they were as intelligent and peaceful as we are.

Culture runs deeper than biological race, and it is the former of which I speak. Biology cannot, ultimately, contain or create or manipulate that which most of all makes a human being out of a mere Homo sapiens

[Turkey]

Average white birthrate worldwide is around 1.4-1.6, historically no population has recovered from a birthrate below 1.8.

That's right. It's all over. Birth control pill and feminism.

[Turkey]

That's because throughout history prior to the modern day 'west', immigration and miscegenation had to be enforced at the point of a sword through conquest, today people allow these things without a fight. That's it. Feminism. Having a society where women have an equal say disenables that society to be healthily xenophobic.:)

[Joe McCarthy]

That's because throughout history prior to the modern day 'west', immigration and miscegenation had to be enforced at the point of a sword through conquest, today people allow these things without a fight.

The nature of expanding empires themselves brought on miscegenation, which is to say the conquerors welcomed it, they didn't have it imposed on them. It's also possible for armed conquest to destroy a civilization with there being little in the way of change in a population's racial makeup. In conquering Anatolia the Turks didn't so much absorb the conquered as they were themselves absorbed. They 'changed race' as Spengler said.

[Turkey]

The nature of expanding empires themselves brought on miscegenation, which is to say the conquerors welcomed it, they didn't have it imposed on them. It's also possible for armed conquest to destroy a civilization with there being little in the way of change in a population's racial makeup. In conquering Anatolia the Turks didn't so much absorb the conquered as they were themselves absorbed. They 'changed race' as Spengler said.I'll bet the Anatolians didn't have contraception pils and cultural marxist feminism.

[Turkey]

Far from over. Science will one day be able to manipulate genetics perfectly. We'll be able to cure the naturally dumber races, and be able to tame people that are naturally aggressive. At that point-- who gives a shit about the white race? I wouldn't complain about other races, if they were as intelligent and peaceful as we are. This is just emotional based supremacy. What's wrong with preserving something just for what it is, for it's own sake?

[Joe McCarthy]

I'll bet the Anatolians didn't have contraception pils and cultural marxist feminism.

The question of why the Seljuks and Ottomans were able to move into Anatolia is an interesting one. Byzantium had already been weakened by Arab attacks, and constant war with Persia, the Fourth Crusade, Black Plague, etc., didn't help. Most of this though involved military setbacks by superior rivals, not internal decay. A couple of the later Byzantine emperors were even especially competent, particularly in keeping the empire financially solvent.

[Magister Eckhart]

The question of why the Seljuks and Ottomans were able to move into Anatolia is an interesting one. Byzantium had already been weakened by Arab attacks, and constant war with Persia, the Fourth Crusade, Black Plague, etc., didn't help. Most of this though involved military setbacks by superior rivals, not internal decay. A couple of the later Byzantine emperors were even especially competent, particularly in keeping the empire financially solvent.

We must also recognise that the Turks do not represent an occurrence in a vacuum, but an arm of developing Mohammedan culture. Indeed, the influence of the Ottomans on shaping what would become Mohammedan Civilisation cannot be ignored. The fact that the Romans of Byzantium fell to the Turks has to do with many things, but most of all that they were a Culture trying to develop in a state of pseudomorphosis between a developed Faustian Culture in the West and a burgeoning Mohammedan Culture to the East. If not for the forces squeezing the Byzantines in the middle, we may well have seen the first real "successor" civilisation, since the Byzantines were, like their Classical predecessors, of Greek derivation and under the influence, by and large, of late Greek thought.

Of course, you could also argue that the Byzantines were nothing more than fellaheen Roman Civilisation and therefore the fact that they lasted even until the 1400s is amazing.

It takes more than a competent government to preserve a Civilisation. When we speak of Civilisations we speak of things that are greater than any state or government.

[Boudica]

That's it. Feminism. Having a society where women have an equal say disenables that society to be healthily xenophobic.:)

I think that feminist ideologies are one of the reasons for the low birthrate, but not the only reason.. I think that a large reason has to do with the cost of living and the economy.. Most white people tend to care about their living situation and the living situation of their children and tend to think things through before they have another child, or have a child at all. They think things through financially when it comes to children, they ask questions like "can we support a child right now", "if we have a child will we be financially comfortable", "would my salary cover another baby", etc. Where as other races (in America at least) don't give a fuck if they are poor or not. They pretty much just say fuck it and screw relentlessly with out a care in the world about being able to financially support the kid or not. Just look at the welfare statistics by race :rolleyes:

[Turkey]

The question of why the Seljuks and Ottomans were able to move into Anatolia is an interesting one. Byzantium had already been weakened by Arab attacks, and constant war with Persia, the Fourth Crusade, Black Plague, etc., didn't help. Most of this though involved military setbacks by superior rivals, not internal decay. A couple of the later Byzantine emperors were even especially competent, particularly in keeping the empire financially solvent.

LOl. We are back to Machavelli Joe.

Machavelli-The prince

"The order of things is that the moment a powerful invader takes over a state, all the weaker factions within it join forces with him, spurred on by their envy of the ruler who had wielded power over them before. In other words, the new prince has no trouble winning the weaker factions over, because they will willingly become part of his new state."


These weaker factions are minorities, maybe not in todays sense of the word, but smaller groups of people who are disloyal to the nation.

In another part of the book, I can not find the quote, he says efectively, that no principality has ever been over run if their is no support from these inside factions.

We know who these weaker inside factions are today.

[Turkey]

I think that feminist ideologies are one of the reasons for the low birthrate, but not the only reason.. I think that a large reason has to do with the cost of living and the economy.. Most white people tend to care about their living situation and the living situation of their children and tend to think things through before they have another child, or have a child at all. They think things through financially when it comes to children, they ask questions like "can we support a child right now", "if we have a child will we be financially comfortable", "would my salary cover another baby", etc. Where as other races (in America at least) don't give a fuck if they are poor or not. They pretty much just say fuck it and screw relentlessly with out a care in the world about being able to financially support the kid or not. Just look at the welfare statistics by race :rolleyes:

Actually Hitler says the same thing in Mien Kamph. Even back then birth rates were declining because of economic reasons. It's amazing how far this reaches back.

It is important to realise though, that a house costs twice as much as it would have if women didn't work beyond marriage. The price of houses is controlled by how much a person can borrow and pay off as dictated by the bank. Now they go on how much two people can pay off. So how can the woman stop work to have children?

I believe we've lost our countries. I suppose we might save our genotype by creating awareness, making it cool to be white again. That's why, for the moment TA is good, because it is static. Skadi is a clique and therefore no longer a tool for education and awareness. SF is some kind of mind recruitment facility, so just as useless.

I realise all this blaming of feminism is probably not good PR for TA but it really is the major problem we have: Half the white population being multiculturalist sympathizers.

Countries have consistantly toppled with far less than 50% of the population being sympathetic to the conquerers. The conquerers being Banks of course, and their immigrant marauders.

[Joe McCarthy]

LOl. We are back to Machavelli Joe.

Machavelli-The prince

"The order of things is that the moment a powerful invader takes over a state, all the weaker factions within it join forces with him, spurred on by their envy of the ruler who had wielded power over them before. In other words, the new prince has no trouble winning the weaker factions over, because they will willingly become part of his new state."


These weaker factions are minorities, maybe not in todays sense of the word, but smaller groups of people who are disloyal to the nation.

In another part of the book, I can not find the quote, he says efectively, that no principality has ever been over run if their is no support from these inside factions.

We know who these weaker inside factions are today.

I don't think that theory fits Byzantium. Byzantine factionalism was mostly the product of sporting clubs rioting and so forth, and the Turks never took advantage of this. After the creation of the themes the challenges to the throne were probably mitigated overall, and the early use of disloyal Germanics in the armed forces was disposed of long before the Turks came along. Most of Byzantine infighting involved palace intrigue, and while I do seem to recall the Persians intervening in favor of a rival, I don't know of the Turks doing so.

[Turkey]

I don't think that theory fits Byzantium. Byzantine factionalism was mostly the product of sporting clubs rioting and so forth, and the Turks never took advantage of this. After the creation of the themes the challenges to the throne were probably mitigated overall, and the early use of disloyal Germanics in the armed forces was disposed of long before the Turks came along. Most of Byzantine infighting involved palace intrigue, and while I do seem to recall the Persians intervening in favor of a rival, I don't know of the Turks doing so.
Well they lost the country but they didn't lose their racial type. Wasn't this what you were saying earlier? We won't be able to absorb a minority invasion force because we aren't breeding. The best we can hope for is an indian style caste system which as we know.....

[SwordoftheVistula]

Average white birthrate worldwide is around 1.4-1.6, historically no population has recovered from a birthrate below 1.8.

You can't view 'whites' as a monolithic entity. The white birthrate in the US is above 1.8, as are the birthrates of some other white countries. Some subsets of this like Mormons are much higher.


It is important to realise though, that a house costs twice as much as it would have if women didn't work beyond marriage. The price of houses is controlled by how much a person can borrow and pay off as dictated by the bank. Now they go on how much two people can pay off. So how can the woman stop work to have children?


Very good point on housing costs. Also here we have to consider the role of central banks. Also, at least in the US, the government made a policy of boosting the prices of houses to please the real estate lobby and other lobbies which made money off of the increase in housing costs, and also the baby boomers who made a lot of 'profit' off of their house as an 'investment' when it rose dramatically in price. Plus the 'civil rights' laws which made 'housing discrimination' illegal, meaning that the only way to be able to live in a good neighborhood was to either buy a house in a neighborhood too expensive for blacks to afford, or live way out in the countryside where there are only white people.

[Joe McCarthy]

Well they lost the country but they didn't lose their racial type. Wasn't this what you were saying earlier? We won't be able to absorb a minority invasion force because we aren't breeding. The best we can hope for is an indian style caste system which as we know.....

Racial type is about all they did retain. They became a new people nevertheless. Is that preferable to a more or less assimilationist multiracial ethic in the modern West? You be the judge.

[Turkey]

Racial type is about all they did retain. They became a new people nevertheless. Is that preferable to a more or less assimilationist multiracial ethic in the modern West? You be the judge.

Personally I'm all about genological preservation. I'm not interested in culture. If all you want is culture to survive then you are living in the right universe because the globalist world will be european culture, non-european race.:(

[Don]

How can be over before we entered in battle to defend our lands -again-?

Only losers (or enemy agents) say everything is lost before even going to arms.


I ask myself if the spreading of that idea is made by the enemy itself... anyway, when the moment arrives (the only question is "When?"), these elements would be the first to be eliminated.

[Joe McCarthy]

Personally I'm all about genological preservation. I'm not interested in culture. If all you want is culture to survive then you are living in the right universe because the globalist world will be european culture, non-european race.:(

Well, I'm certainly not for multiracialism, but it is a real question as to whether what happened in Anatolia was preferable. They were assimilated by the forces of Osman. It was particularly Borg-like. Whatever may be said against miscegenation, collapsing birthrates, etc., it has been remarkably painless as these things go.

[Turkey]

How can be over before we entered in battle to defend our lands -again-? Despite what everyone says, it won't be the first time it's happened. They've won simply because they have avoided this battle. They have devised other ways of reducing our numbers. Defeating someone in battle has proven remarkanle inefficent as a means of genocide. This tiem they are taking their time to do the job properly.


Only losers (or enemy agents) say everything is lost before even going to arms.
not at all. It takes courage to accept reality and it's for the best. The sooner we realise we've lost land, the sooner we can set about saving genes. Heritage buildings were never really meant to last forever. We can create new things later. Lands are won and lost all the time. Genes, however are irreplacable. The longer we live in the dillusion that we still own our countries, the more non-white workers our politicians will 'recruit'.Our battle, in 30 plus years time, will be one of seperatism.


I ask myself if the spreading of that idea is made by the enemy itself... anyway, when the moment arrives (the only question is "When?"), these elements would be the first to be eliminated.Is that a threat?:dielaughing:

[Turkey]

Well, I'm certainly not for multiracialism, but it is a real question as to whether what happened in Anatolia was preferable. They were assimilated by the forces of Osman. It was particularly Borg-like. Whatever may be said against miscegenation, collapsing birthrates, etc., it has been remarkably painless as these things go. Speak for yourself:laugh2: I'm in heaps of pain.

So are the thirty thousand white women raped by negroes in america every year. So are all the babies currently being aborted. What about all those young guys who have to see their female peers in the arms of a gorilla? Then there's the multitude of all those young people on minimum wage in europe and america, having to whatch immigrants get government subsidised housing while their own rent takes most of their measly pay. If it's not painful now it will be more so as time goes on.:coffee:

[Don]

Loser's mourning.

Quédate atrás, con las mujeres, los niños y los ancianos, pues.

[Kataphraktoi]

All cultures and civilisations are, to use your words, by-products in the sense that no individual or group of individuals purposefully plans out and then executes a cultural plan. A Civilisation is an organic thing, really a huge organism to be sure, and therefore can only truly occur naturally and organically.

You can tell that I am in agreement with Lewis and Huizinga; ultimately what shapes a Civilisation in my theory is the way in which that Civilisation encounters the Divine. There is only one Divine - unchanging, pervading, and ineffable-- but men struggle with the way he encounters this Divinity, and so the organism known as Culture arises from the various kinds of men and their peculiar ways of approaching life, which is to say their peculiar ways of approaching God. It is as Spengler says, though, "'Mankind' is either a zoological concept or an empty word." (After Goethe, who proclaimed "'Mankind?' There is no such thing: there are and there only ever have been men.") In this regard, our particular type is defined by our culture and our civilisation, and the fact that we have lost the way to the Divine is the surest indicator that we have entered a post-historical period in our Civilisation and a pre-historical period of a later Civilisation. This is, at least, my estimation.

I agree, firstly I will make it clear that I believe that there is no Salvation outside of Christ (Acts 4:12), but Popes Pius IX and St. Pius X also said there are individuals who may be "invincibly ignorant" of the Church but still may achieve Salvation because their souls belong to the Church and they still respond to God's grace.

Heraclitus, Socrates and Plato were said to be "Christians before Christ"; the story of the Buddha was Christianized in the account of St Josephat; Abraham, Moses and David were all called Christians too.

John 1:1 says the Word was with God in the beginning; and St. Augustine said: "The very thing that is now called the Christian religion was not wanting amongst the ancients from the beginning of the human race, until Christ came in the flesh, after which the true religion, which had already existed, began to be called 'Christian'."

St. Thomas Aquinas said in the Summa: "the distinction and multitude of things come from the intention of the first agent, who is God. For He brought things into being in order that His goodness might be communicated to creatures, and be represented by them; and because His goodness could not be adequately represented by one creature alone, He produced many and diverse creatures, that what was wanting to one in the representation of the divine goodness might be supplied by another."

The diversity of the world's major and enduring religions and cultures is a testament to the existence of God.


I know, of course, that Chesterton would be in staunch disagreement here, and I imagine Lewis would be too. Eliot might be more sympathetic.

Western Civilisation, certainly, and they were products of Civilisation insofar as they were affronts to Culture. Really materialism, liberalism, and their offspring (like communism and social democracy) are recurring things in the history of cultures, and always mark a decline into civilisation.

This Ancient-Medieval-Modern scheme is fundamentally flawed, actually. We can in no way equate the worldview of early Western Culture (the so-called "Middle Ages") with the Classical/Olympian Civilisation (Rome 27 BC - AD 313). Furthermore, Byzantium represents an off-shoot, possibly even a felaheen incarnation of Rome, a sibling to Western Culture, not a form thereof. The "Renaissance", as it is called, is really the dividing point between Western Culture (c. 750-1614) and Western Civilisation (c. 1643-1914). It marks the beginning of the descent into humanism and therefore the very root of the godless Absolutism that arises out of the seventeenth century. The Renaissance, the "Enlightenment", and "Modernism" are in fact incredibly similar and all feed into one another; and, in fact, reflections of the so-called "Middle Ages" can be seen in all of them, though as through a glass, darkly.

Fair point; I was being deliberately simplistic.


I agree, and see above for expansion of this idea. "Western values" as they are known in the popular parlance are in fact shams: nothing about the contemporary world is Western in terms of Western Culture -- quite the opposite, in fact. We have ceased to be a living civilisation because the cultural sovereign of our society is no longer native (i.e. Faustian Christianity) but foreign, i.e. Asiatic materialism and godlessness. This godlessness and materialism are certainly the end result of a culture, but they are at the same time inherently foreign and foreign-loving things. Xenophilia is the final phase of collapse: we see it with the Nubian Pharaohs of the 25th dynasty, the Christianity of Helena, Constantius, and Constantine, and now the atheism and scientism of the 19th century West and post-War Europe. Darwin is to the West, perhaps, what Constantine was to the Classical Civilisation.

Yes, as we have become increasingly less Christian, something else was bound to fill the void. You mention Asiatic materialism - somebody and I honestly forget who - said that such pantheism would be the real enemy of Christianity instead of atheism because of its oversimplification of 'Oneness' and its 'brotherhood of man' ideals.

[Turkey]

Quédate atrás, con las mujeres, los niños y los ancianos, pues.

You lack the intellegence to follow my argument, and the courage to face what we are faced with.

If you were as brave as you are making out you'd already be in jail, but you aren't. You are just sitting there with your little keyboard, like the rest of us. So shut up or go out and start this battle you say you are going to be such a hero in, you silly peacock.:D

[Don]

If you were as brave as you are making out you'd already be in jail

Coherently with your speech and my judgement in the previous recomendation (con los niños, los ancianos y las mujeres) you are the kind of man whose disaffinity with concepts like bravery or conviction (as I used) makes him to think mental retardation or foolishness are synonyms.

[Turkey]

Coherently with your speech and my judgement in the previous recomendation (con los niños, los ancianos y las mujeres) you are the kind of man whose disaffinity with concepts like bravery or conviction (as I used) makes him to think mental retardation or foolishness are synonyms.

I'll try to rephrase it for you, you tedious fool. You have the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is, walk out the door and start the riot right now. Not in some dreamed up future time when you've egged others on to go before you while you are handing out brands at the back of the mob.

Reply to me after you're out on bail, or if they let you use the internet from your cell. Better still, I'll see your dead body on the news.

If I see that. Then I'll stand corrected. Not before.

You have stated that you are the great warrior and everyone else isn't. We haven't said we are great warriors. You have said you are. So what are you waiting for, mighty warrior?

If you are still alive tommorrow morning,let me know how it turned out, I'll verify it on the internet and happily stand corrected.

So what weapons are you going to take?

Are you going for the immigrants or are you going to go brievik style and try to get the politicians children?

Let me know mate how it goes mate. I'm thrilled that someone has decided to finnaly take action.

[Don]

I'll try to rephrase it for yo...

Sorry, too long text from a quite little promising and interesting individuo to be read by me.

As a caballero I excuse myself for not reading you but, really, I have a refined discrimination in my interactions, even in internet.

[Osweo]

I usually consider Danilevsky to be Spengler's Russian counterpart, but then I have read very little Gumilyov.

HERE is the online resource for obstinate neobrusevshimy anglophones;
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/english.html
specifically this work;
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/English/ebe.htm

Hmm.... the translation is done by a Russophone, so I worry it won't shine thru right. :( Heh, I'm also slightly concerned that the effect whereby a text read in one's second language can seem more wondrously wise than otherwise may have unduly swayed me when I read it... :p Have a read, anyroad.

Also, I don't think recognition of reality (if I am right, and I don't want to be) is "defeatism".
Reality is summat to be played with. Devil take your gloomy version!


The fact that the Romans of Byzantium fell to the Turks has to do with many things, but most of all that they were a Culture trying to develop in a state of pseudomorphosis between a developed Faustian Culture in the West and a burgeoning Mohammedan Culture to the East.
Gumilyov uses the term Chimera for this, but I see the Ottoman Caliphate as more chimeric than the late Roman Empire on these terms. The latter was healthier than you take it for, from your Catholic viewpoint. It did create Orthodox Russia, after all. Two Romes have fallen, A Third yet stands; There shall not be a Fourth, after all!


I believe we've lost our countries. I suppose we might save our genotype by creating awareness, making it cool to be white again.
You want to make Jews of us. :ohwell:
*Osweo casts an eye over Jewish diaspora history...
No, thanks.


I don't think that theory fits Byzantium. Byzantine factionalism was mostly the product of sporting clubs rioting and so forth, and the Turks never took advantage of this. After the creation of the themes the challenges to the throne were probably mitigated overall, and the early use of disloyal Germanics in the armed forces was disposed of long before the Turks came along. Most of Byzantine infighting involved palace intrigue, and while I do seem to recall the Persians intervening in favor of a rival, I don't know of the Turks doing so.
You focus on the capital. There were more important divisions in Byzantine society in the provinces. The schismatics of Anatolia, Syria and Egypt all played their part...


The sooner we realise we've lost land, the sooner we can set about saving genes. Heritage buildings were never really meant to last forever. We can create new things later. Lands are won and lost all the time. Genes, however are irreplacable. The longer we live in the dillusion that we still own our countries, the more non-white workers our politicians will 'recruit'.Our battle, in 30 plus years time, will be one of seperatism.
The desire to become Jews in our own lands again... :tsk:

[Curtis24]

Here are my thoughts:

Its clear that the younger generation - my generation - will never be able to embrace European heritage in a meaningful way. They are too liberalized - and adamantly opposed to traditional families. However, at the same time, these people seem crippled, not dangerous in any way. Most work jobs not necessary to the economy - such as marketing etc. That being said, they are highly dependent.

Now, a lot of bad things have been said about the baby-boomers, but they are basically a conservative generation. They only went along with liberal policies because they didn't have the experiential background to understand what the consequences would be. We talked about this in a different thread, but these people were really just blindsided by rapidly changing social forces. They were told immigration would lead to a higher standard of living and a more tolerant, peaceful environment; the reality was lowered wages and a criminal class. They were told that women entering the workforce, and marrying later, would lead to stronger marriages and healthier daughters - the result is rampant promiscuity, consumerism, credit card debt, and no children. And on and on.

But they've learned. As their children rapidly age, just now reaching their 30s, childless, they are starting to realize the damage that has been done. Not to mention the riots. These older people will then vote in nationalist politicians, to remedy the problems. And yes, I still have total faith in the possibility of democratic change - its happened many times before, in societies more corrupt than this one(Hitler is one example, though I disapprove of everything he did). The last 30 some years have been a tragedy, but it was a necessary tragedy, and people are beginning to wake up.

[Turkey]

Sorry, too long text from a quite little promising and interesting individuo to be read by me.

As a caballero I excuse myself for not reading you but, really, I have a refined discrimination in my interactions, even in internet.

I told you. Don't speak to me unless you are underseige by the police. Message me right before they throw in the tear gas canisters. I'm happy to talk to you then.

[Turkey]

You want to make Jews of us. :ohwell:
*Osweo casts an eye over Jewish diaspora history...
No, thanks. yes. it's invasion of the body snatchers. A third of the world genotype variation displaced by mongrel jews. Let's go easy on what I 'want ' though mate.:)

[Osweo]

yes. it's invasion of the body snatchers. A third of the world genotype variation displaced by mongrel jews. Let's go easy on what I 'want ' though mate.:)

You misunderstood me, thinking I meant we would merge with the Jews? I just pointed out how it seems you want us to live AS Jews.

[Joe McCarthy]

You focus on the capital. There were more important divisions in Byzantine society in the provinces. The schismatics of Anatolia, Syria and Egypt all played their part...


These of course existed, and were the subject of several church gatherings (the Nicene Council being the most famous) and it can be argued that Syria and parts of Egypt were never as Byzantine as a consequence, but these were products of the early centuries and played little or no role in the much later Turkish successes.

[Tony]

Sometimes, when I'm down, I really feel like it's all over already.

Let's face it, blacks (in USA) and Muslims here roam freely, the law protects them rather than us, birthrates are lower than ever, children don't trespect parents anymore and the same goes for the women to men, the younger generations have no idea of our ethnic identity, they're mostly told pc bs at schools, all kinds of perversion is got normal by the law, youth very often drop out schools en masse, are no longer able to read a comprehend a written text because of their mania with tv and videogames, not to mention the loss of sovereignity to international organizations and the immense debt above our heads.

This all is apocalyptic!

The only reason we close our eyes instead of facing the tragedy is because we are immersed in it and brought to think it's somewhat normal, and also because this decline didn't happened all at once but gradually, but take a photo of say a European family and a European youngster from the 1870s and compare them with modern photos with the same subject, back then you had firm, solid, secure, viril stands whereas today we usually smile, do stupid poses or pretend do be some rapper.
It speaks volume!We are changed, our mindset has become more primitive and similar to the third worlders, today we're more similar to negroes than our ancestors from 1800s, a true European man would appal and be shocked to check the mental idiocy we're got today.

Someone said a decline can be reversed, yes but to a certain conditions, the first example that come to my mind is Turkey, in 1923 after a steady 2 declining centuries the Young Turks saved their sovereignity from the Greek invaders armies (who were on the verge to re-conquer Bysantium) and created a modern, homogenous stated by exterminated the Armenian minority, today Turkey is a booming economy with the strongest NATO armed forces, beside USA, who, at the end of 1800, would have forecasted such brilliant outcome for the "great sick of Europe"?

We, as Occident, have still the best military in the world but as a % share of the world, as Whites, are inesorably declining, I cannot fathom who might be our "Young Turks", the whites are doomed to become a tiny minority within this century, both as regard the whole world pop. and inside our own countries.
We're in the same situation our ancestors were ad the end of Classical World, when a new ideology, Christianity took over and replaced the old temples, beliefs, clergies, our feelings are similar to that of Julian, we're feeling our solid terrain falling down due to alien enemies (globalization, immigration, egalitarianis and stuff).
What's been the year 313 for them it's been 1945 and 1968 for us.

[_______]

Sometimes, when I'm down, I really feel like it's all over already.

Let's face it, blacks (in USA) and Muslims here roam freely, the law protects them rather than us, birthrates are lower than ever, children don't trespect parents anymore and the same goes for the women to men, the younger generations have no idea of our ethnic identity, they're mostly told pc bs at schools, all kinds of perversion is got normal by the law, youth very often drop out schools en masse, are no longer able to read a comprehend a written text because of their mania with tv and videogames, not to mention the loss of sovereignity to international organizations and the immense debt above our heads.

This all is apocalyptic!

The only reason we close our eyes instead of facing the tragedy is because we are immersed in it and brought to think it's somewhat normal, and also because this decline didn't happened all at once but gradually, but take a photo of say a European family and a European youngster from the 1870s and compare them with modern photos with the same subject, back then you had firm, solid, secure, viril stands whereas today we usually smile, do stupid poses or pretend do be some rapper.
It speaks volume!We are changed, our mindset has become more primitive and similar to the third worlders, today we're more similar to negroes than our ancestors from 1800s, a true European man would appal and be shocked to check the mental idiocy we're got today.

Someone said a decline can be reversed, yes but to a certain conditions, the first example that come to my mind is Turkey, in 1923 after a steady 2 declining centuries the Young Turks saved their sovereignity from the Greek invaders armies (who were on the verge to re-conquer Bysantium) and created a modern, homogenous stated by exterminated the Armenian minority, today Turkey is a booming economy with the strongest NATO armed forces, beside USA, who, at the end of 1800, would have forecasted such brilliant outcome for the "great sick of Europe"?

We, as Occident, have still the best military in the world but as a % share of the world, as Whites, are inesorably declining, I cannot fathom who might be our "Young Turks", the whites are doomed to become a tiny minority within this century, both as regard the whole world pop. and inside our own countries.
We're in the same situation our ancestors were ad the end of Classical World, when a new ideology, Christianity took over and replaced the old temples, beliefs, clergies, our feelings are similar to that of Julian, we're feeling our solid terrain falling down due to alien enemies (globalization, immigration, egalitarianis and stuff).
What's been the year 313 for them it's been 1945 and 1968 for us.

the armenian genocide was fucking horrible

[SwordoftheVistula]

But they've learned. As their children rapidly age, just now reaching their 30s, childless, they are starting to realize the damage that has been done. Not to mention the riots. These older people will then vote in nationalist politicians, to remedy the problems. And yes, I still have total faith in the possibility of democratic change - its happened many times before, in societies more corrupt than this one(Hitler is one example, though I disapprove of everything he did). The last 30 some years have been a tragedy, but it was a necessary tragedy, and people are beginning to wake up.

Maybe. They have a plan for this though, which is to use the court systems to block any meaningful change until it is too late. So not only do you need to win elections, you need to elect leaders who will take action regardless of what court systems say.

[AussieScott]

Maybe. They have a plan for this though, which is to use the court systems to block any meaningful change until it is too late. So not only do you need to win elections, you need to elect leaders who will take action regardless of what court systems say.



Politicians can bypass activist judges by carefully worded legislation. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[AussieScott]

I do not think it is over, when people see what is happening, people start to think, as I have. The west is not the only civilisation that is declining, it's a global phenomenon represented in all developed or developing countries in certain ways. The west has been slow to act as a peoples, due to having a higher concentration of wealth and the trappings of modern consumerism, hence our low birth rate. That will change in a declining state of affairs, as more people will awaken.

Take Turkey for instance they have a higher birth rate, they also have more slums, a stable form of Islamist government forming, and tossing the secularist militarists aside. The western elites are not giving North Africa and the Middle East, Islamist governments for no reason, they are more stable regimes in a declining fossil fuel, peak every thing age. It's whether they will sell oil to the west still or not. If they don't sell the west oil it will not end good for the Mohammedans. Particularly if they play us off the communist East as they will be squashed in the middle. The spoils of war then divided up again.

The Saudi's are no longer in the position they were in 1973, they are getting desperate to full fill there religious end times cult, it's why they're over reaching and spending $600 billion dollars per year to spread Islamization via soft and hard Jihad around the world. They have reached peak water as they're now using there own oil to desalinate water for drinking and food production purposes. By 2016 they will be 100% dependant on importing foreign wheat. Sooner than later their tentacles will decline and recede back into the desert. What I find interesting is the Mohammedans are investing in black Africa for food. How do you peoples think that will work out for them? Particularly when China plays the same game, as they did with our white brothers and sisters in the south of that continent. Then you have the Iranians, that's another story.

Not only that the West controls the most abundant cropping lands in the world, being Europe, and North America. Australia being a great pivot country for minerals and 2nd grade energy will also play a large role. As energy becomes more expensive so will food production, making large scale farms less profitable, and the small farmers can come back to life. By the way notice all the shale coal Gas wells going in around western countries? Replacement fuel already in the pipe line.

In Europe and the UK, right of centre parties are beginning to gain more seats, bringing about more conservative governance. The USA and Australia will more than likely vote in the social conservatives, the Tea party and Katters mob will hopefully push the parties to more right of centre. Which will hopefully develop a more conservative western governance. Canada and New Zealand already have conservative governments.

Remember revolutions always start in the rural country side as well as the cities, who controls the food controls a revolution. Now where are the most conservative electorates in the West pray tell? Things are looking up, you just have to look past all the media/entertainment/leftist academic BS that has you so depressed.

There are many things we can all do whether we be in the rural country or the city, we just need a plan.

Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

We need a damn good performance to get our peoples back on track. The more we think, the more we share, then clarity and a crafted plan may form.

[Magister Eckhart]

I don't think that theory fits Byzantium. Byzantine factionalism was mostly the product of sporting clubs rioting and so forth, and the Turks never took advantage of this. After the creation of the themes the challenges to the throne were probably mitigated overall, and the early use of disloyal Germanics in the armed forces was disposed of long before the Turks came along. Most of Byzantine infighting involved palace intrigue, and while I do seem to recall the Persians intervening in favor of a rival, I don't know of the Turks doing so.
Indeed, many of those who were used in the Byzantine military were the most effective, loyal, and well-paid Germanics, the Varangian Guard, after whom Vikings would regularly go to Byzantium and stay there. We see this attested in the Saga of Sigurd the Crusader (found in the Heimskringla (http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/crusaders.html)). The Persians threatened Byzantium early because they were familiar with Roman ways, being the ancient enemy of the Roman Empire in the East. The Turks were, early on, essentially barbarians with, I believe, no inclination toward exploitation of such intrigue.


Well, I'm certainly not for multiracialism, but it is a real question as to whether what happened in Anatolia was preferable. They were assimilated by the forces of Osman. It was particularly Borg-like. Whatever may be said against miscegenation, collapsing birthrates, etc., it has been remarkably painless as these things go.
I would never say that what happened in Anatolia was preferable. Cultural and ethnic destruction is never a positive thing, nor should it ever be viewed as such. Even if we resign ourselves to our destruction, no sane man revels in it.


How can be over before we entered in battle to defend our lands -again-?

Only losers (or enemy agents) say everything is lost before even going to arms.


I ask myself if the spreading of that idea is made by the enemy itself... anyway, when the moment arrives (the only question is "When?"), these elements would be the first to be eliminated.
The man who sallies forth into battle knowing he will be defeated is far more reliable than the man who rides into battle with the delusion that he might be victorious, for when the tide turns, the first man stands and the second can lose hope.


I agree, firstly I will make it clear that I believe that there is no Salvation outside of Christ (Acts 4:12), but Popes Pius IX and St. Pius X also said there are individuals who may be "invincibly ignorant" of the Church but still may achieve Salvation because their souls belong to the Church and they still respond to God's grace.
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. If the Christ is eternal, then His Church on Earth is likewise, but we must recognize that the Western/Faustian Church born in the Middle Ages died with St. Pius X in 1914; he was the last gasp of Westernism in the Church. Whatever becomes of the Church (that is to say, the Body of Christ), we may be sure that it will not be the same form with which we have been accustomed. But Christ endures.


Heraclitus, Socrates and Plato were said to be "Christians before Christ"; the story of the Buddha was Christianized in the account of St Josephat; Abraham, Moses and David were all called Christians too.

John 1:1 says the Word was with God in the beginning; and St. Augustine said: "The very thing that is now called the Christian religion was not wanting amongst the ancients from the beginning of the human race, until Christ came in the flesh, after which the true religion, which had already existed, began to be called 'Christian'."

St. Thomas Aquinas said in the Summa: "the distinction and multitude of things come from the intention of the first agent, who is God. For He brought things into being in order that His goodness might be communicated to creatures, and be represented by them; and because His goodness could not be adequately represented by one creature alone, He produced many and diverse creatures, that what was wanting to one in the representation of the divine goodness might be supplied by another."
Certainly God revealed Himself to all nations, and it is ironic as well as perhaps somewhat unfortunate that only the Hebrews should have gotten and preserved the most important aspect of His nature. Nevertheless, as Chesterton observed, if not for the Hebraic monotheism, it is doubtful whether God as He is would ever have reached the ears of the rest of the Earth. While the Jews corrupted The One and Almighty into their personal tribal God, and made something Great serve petty purposes, they did manage to preserve the singular and solitary nature of The One until the coming of the λόγος that made The One accessible to mankind. There are indeed many who were not of the Christian faith who rightly are called “Christian” for their access to the Divine, and many who call themselves Christian who are not in any way joined to the λόγος.
For it is written, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matt. 7:22-23
However, none of this precludes the fact that different Civilisations encounter and interpret the Divine in specific ways, and Faustian Christianity is only one of many ways to communicate with the λόγος; we may yet see a new Culture and new Civilisation arise from another Christianity, though. Spengler predicted, and maybe he was correct, that Russia and the Eastern Orthodoxy has not yet formed a Civilisation in the truest sense, i.e. it is still in a state of pre-history. The fall of the West may present fertile ground for it to sprout forth into the next great Culture.



The diversity of the world's major and enduring religions and cultures is a testament to the existence of God.
I agree wholeheartedly.


Yes, as we have become increasingly less Christian, something else was bound to fill the void. You mention Asiatic materialism - somebody and I honestly forget who - said that such pantheism would be the real enemy of Christianity instead of atheism because of its oversimplification of 'Oneness' and its 'brotherhood of man' ideals.
Well the “brotherhood of man” that materializes the spiritual unity of humanity is heavily simplistic, but to be honest, this materialism is not the indicator of a new civilization—it really is little more than a step toward ultimate collapse. We’ve already adopted this, which is really Humanism, as the driving religious force of our time, which is why I say that our Civilisation has already died. When the native spirit ceases to drive the people of a culture, that culture ceases to exist. Civilisation is the phase when this change-over from native to foreign takes place. I believe we completed this phase of final decay between 1790 and 1914.


HERE is the online resource for obstinate neobrusevshimy anglophones;
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/english.html
specifically this work;
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/English/ebe.htm

Hmm.... the translation is done by a Russophone, so I worry it won't shine thru right. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/289855/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gifHeh, I'm also slightly concerned that the effect whereby a text read in one's second language can seem more wondrously wise than otherwise may have unduly swayed me when I read it... file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/289855/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gifHave a read, anyroad.
I’ll be looking forward to it.


Gumilyov uses the term Chimera for this, but I see the Ottoman Caliphate as more chimeric than the late Roman Empire on these terms. The latter was healthier than you take it for, from your Catholic viewpoint. It did create Orthodox Russia, after all. Two Romes have fallen, A Third yet stands; There shall not be a Fourth, after all!
I think “chimera” is inaccurate to describe the organism, since it is without a doubt the same as other civilisations except that it has been stunted. This is why Spengler appeals to the geological phenomenon, though he likewise appeals to the metaphor of a tree that cannot grow in a great forest because it is deprived of the proper light and nutrients in the soil. I find both of these metaphors far better describe the reality of civilisational growth than “chimera”, which suggests something monstrous.


You focus on the capital. There were more important divisions in Byzantine society in the provinces. The schismatics of Anatolia, Syria and Egypt all played their part...
They played a part, yes, but the power of the Empire was most definitely concentrated in Constantinople, and the schismatics of the outlying provinces of the Empire were not nearly as threatening as the invading forces into those places – indeed, the cause of the First Crusade was not that Jerusalem and Acre had broken away from the Empire but that they have been overrun by foreigners.



The desire to become Jews in our own lands again... file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/289855/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image003.gif
It may not be a desire so much as an inevitability. The Jews are fellaheen, the fate of all dead civilisations. If the West has died, we ourselves are already fellaheen and diasporic.


Sometimes, when I'm down, I really feel like it's all over already.

Let's face it, blacks (in USA) and Muslims here roam freely, the law protects them rather than us, birthrates are lower than ever, children don't t respect parents anymore and the same goes for the women to men, the younger generations have no idea of our ethnic identity, they're mostly told pc bs at schools, all kinds of perversion is got normal by the law, youth very often drop out schools en masse, are no longer able to read a comprehend a written text because of their mania with tv and videogames, not to mention the loss of sovereignity to international organizations and the immense debt above our heads.
Well, what you’re pointing out are certainly symptoms of a wider civilisational crisis, but ultimately your concern is tribal rather than cultural. Law is a tribal thing, cultural and social motions point to the culture and civilisation. The surrender of cultural sovereignty to foreign influences is the real indicator that our civilisation has already died; a civilisation whose native drives no longer direct its movement is a dead civilisation. Even in the latest period of Roman existence, in the second century AD, and among the Egyptians in the time of Ramsesses II, there was something of the Olympian and Pharaonic drive left. By the time of Constantius II and Ramsesses IV, however, nothing of the native spirit drove either of these civilisations, and while political structures remained standing, they were ever at this time cultural ruins, not structures still in use by a living civilisation.


The only reason we close our eyes instead of facing the tragedy is because we are immersed in it and brought to think it's somewhat normal, and also because this decline didn't happened all at once but gradually, but take a photo of say a European family and a European youngster from the 1870s and compare them with modern photos with the same subject, back then you had firm, solid, secure, viril stands whereas today we usually smile, do stupid poses or pretend do be some rapper.
It speaks volume!We are changed, our mindset has become more primitive and similar to the third worlders, today we're more similar to negroes than our ancestors from 1800s, a true European man would appal and be shocked to check the mental idiocy we're got today.
All of what you highlight speaks to a civilisation that has already died, not one in its death throes. If you look at those same people in the 1870s, the social and cultural movements of the West during that time is exactly the same as what is occurring now, except not as visible on the surface. Dating as far as to the 1780s we already see the forces of decline and decay that have become obvious on the surface. When a corpse decays, that decay is not immediately present on the surface.


Someone said a decline can be reversed, yes but to a certain conditions, the first example that come to my mind is Turkey, in 1923 after a steady 2 declining centuries the Young Turks saved their sovereignity from the Greek invaders armies (who were on the verge to re-conquer Bysantium) and created a modern, homogenous stated by exterminated the Armenian minority, today Turkey is a booming economy with the strongest NATO armed forces, beside USA, who, at the end of 1800, would have forecasted such brilliant outcome for the "great sick of Europe"?
Toynbee suggested decline can be reversed, but we’re not talking about the decline of petty tribes and nations here, we’re talking about the movement of entire civilisations. Also, Toynbee would never have argued that mass murder was the solution to our problems; no sane man ever would.

the armenian genocide was fucking horrible
Genocide is never a positive thing. Ever.


We, as Occident, have still the best military in the world but as a % share of the world, as Whites, are inesorably declining, I cannot fathom who might be our "Young Turks", the whites are doomed to become a tiny minority within this century, both as regard the whole world pop. and inside our own countries.
We have the best tools, but tools speak only to the most primitive and animal aspect of any given human group. An ape can make tools; the fact that we have highly advanced tools speaks to our past rather than our present. The “best military” means very little in terms of cultural creation; indeed, the savagery of concentrating all of our efforts toward doing violence rather than cultural creation (see how our arts and our philosophy have all died) highlights just how primitive our society has become, and how deeply we have sunk into a post-historical period.


We're in the same situation our ancestors were ad the end of Classical World, when a new ideology, Christianity took over and replaced the old temples, beliefs, clergies, our feelings are similar to that of Julian, we're feeling our solid terrain falling down due to alien enemies (globalization, immigration, egalitarianis and stuff).
Julian, however, could not revive anything; his personal drive was not enough to stop the course of history and the lifespan of his civilisation. Ultimately, all he was doing was preserving something that was already dead, as is the inevitable fate of all conservatives in this situation. The lack of success came largely from ambivalence from the general population, already affected by the new changes and the foreign drives that had replaced their own. Already, he lived in a post-historical time. The beliefs, clergies, and temples were nothing without the drive that had created them, and that drive had already been dead for three centuries in the time of Constantine; the filial piety and civic duty that defined the Classical soul had been directed toward a God-Emperor since the days of Tiberius. Likewise our own chivalric drive and monastic nature have been hijacked since the 1700s for the service of humanism and scientism.


What's been the year 313 for them it's been 1945 and 1968 for us.



1945 is not nearly so significant as you make it. The end was already upon us in 1914, the radical and futile efforts on the part of the fascists accomplished as much as Julian the Apostate did, and they are today regarded in the same light. Indeed, one could safely make the assertion that Hitler represented the Julian of the West: struggling with a new, radical form of an old culture, he could not create anything that did not ultimately boil down to base imitation, and in the end failed because of civilisation-wide ambivalence, even animosity, to his project.

[Turkey]

You misunderstood me, thinking I meant we would merge with the Jews? I just pointed out how it seems you want us to live AS Jews.
I didn't misunderstand you. I've thought of this horrible scenaro as well. Please stop saying I want us to live as jews!

I don't want that.

what I want aside for a moment(what I want won't figure into the universal plan, believe me you), are the afghanis jews?

[Joe McCarthy]

Indeed, many of those who were used in the Byzantine military were the most effective, loyal, and well-paid Germanics, the Varangian Guard, after whom Vikings would regularly go to Byzantium and stay there. We see this attested in the Saga of Sigurd the Crusader (found in the Heimskringla (http://omacl.org/Heimskringla/crusaders.html)).

Yes, but that was a much later occurrence beginning in the 10th century under the Macedonian dynasty. I'm referring to 5th century events involving figures like Gainas and Aspar. The Goths served as autonomous units in the East Roman military even as they were enemies of Rome. This was dealt with through popular explosions from the Byzantine street or the cunning of astute emperors.

[Stars Down To Earth]

Well, the legions of Goths did betray the Western Roman Empire (or rather, re-join their own blood kin) by joining forces with the Goth invaders and defeating the Romans.

The Byzantines (Eastern Roman Empire) instantly reacted by massacring all of their Goths. Cold-blooded of them, but a logical action.

[Joe McCarthy]

Well, the legions of Goths did betray the Western Roman Empire (or rather, re-join their own blood kin) by joining forces with the Goth invaders and defeating the Romans.

The Byzantines (Eastern Roman Empire) instantly reacted by massacring all of their Goths. Cold-blooded of them, but a logical action.

Goths were made part of military units in Byzantium to placate them after they barged into Byzantine territory in fleeing the Huns. They were never an integrated part of the state, and by the 470s especially it was obvious their power was a serious threat. The massacres though were more directed at Gainas and his followers in 400 through mob violence.

[BeerBaron]

Maybe. They have a plan for this though, which is to use the court systems to block any meaningful change until it is too late. So not only do you need to win elections, you need to elect leaders who will take action regardless of what court systems say.

Now we are talking, what you are proposing is essentially the platform dictators use to rise to power.

[Joe McCarthy]

Now we are talking, what you are proposing is essentially the platform dictators use to rise to power.

Or populist democratic demagogues like Jackson who simply ignored a ruling of SCOTUS in moving the Cherokee around.

[AussieScott]

are the afghanis jews?

The Hazara Shia Shiite would have Jewish roots...

[Turkey]

The Hazara Shia Shiite would have Jewish roots...
What I meant was, we won't be living as jews. We will be living as the afgans are.

[Baron Samedi]

I'm sure Jesus will see us through.

[Pallantides]

I believe I'm a Hologram in a Holodeck program on some starship.

[antonio]

I'm not reading all the late messages, but at respect with Magister's introduction I basically agree it's too late for too many things. Moreover, some of them (basically the altered by the products of technology) were impossible to preserve. From Occidental civilization soon (or maybe right now) just will remain a phony grotesque surface.

[Osweo]

The Hazara Shia Shiite would have Jewish roots...

:confused:

Because their name sounds a little bit like 'Khazar'? That's no way to do history. :tsk: They have piss all to do with the Khazars, and are the product of Mongol/Tajik intermarriage. Their Y chromosomes mostly prove it.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Now we are talking, what you are proposing is essentially the platform dictators use to rise to power.

Today, the court systems are moving close to dictatorships, making up the laws they want as well as ruling on them.

[Magister Eckhart]

I'm not reading all the late messages, but at respect with Magister's introduction I basically agree it's too late for too many things. Moreover, some of them (basically the altered by the products of technology) were impossible to preserve. From Occidental civilization soon (or maybe right now) just will remain a phony grotesque surface.

Spengler observed this, though with some hopefulness because he regarded Western Civilisation as still being a living thing in his time:


One day the last portrait of Rembrandt and the last bar of Mozart will have ceased to be — though possibly a colored canvas and a sheet of notes will remain — because the last eye and the last ear accessible to their message will have gone.

[Osweo]

I care for my family, my lineage, my descendants, potential nephews and nieces. If Rembrandt and Mozart are all that counts, sod this 'culture' stuff. My forebears never even heard of them anyway. My grandparents were probably the first to be aware of that realm of things, and I'm the first to better understand it. It doesn't define me or my bloodline. It's an emanation of a wider system that we've been humble cogs in, and perhaps something of the potential for it is in us, but it's not the be all and end all. LIFE is more than that. The art echoes the life, and new art will come along to suit us.

If this makes us 'fellaheen', so be it. Spengler was a bit of a snooty sod, and attracts similar sorts as his blind disciples. I can read Spengler and find things of use in it, but I'm not gunna latch onto his ideas as Holy Writ. He may have been well mistaken on a good few matters, even if he did discern a dim silhouette of a great reality.

While there's blood still in us, there's a chance for our peoples. Anything can happen in the next few years.

[Magister Eckhart]

I care for my family, my lineage, my descendants, potential nephews and nieces. If Rembrandt and Mozart are all that counts, sod this 'culture' stuff. My forebears never even heard of them anyway. My grandparents were probably the first to be aware of that realm of things, and I'm the first to better understand it. It doesn't define me or my bloodline. It's an emanation of a wider system that we've been humble cogs in, and perhaps something of the potential for it is in us, but it's not the be all and end all. LIFE is more than that. The art echoes the life, and new art will come along to suit us.

If this makes us 'fellaheen', so be it. Spengler was a bit of a snooty sod, and attracts similar sorts as his blind disciples. I can read Spengler and find things of use in it, but I'm not gunna latch onto his ideas as Holy Writ. He may have been well mistaken on a good few matters, even if he did discern a dim silhouette of a great reality.

While there's blood still in us, there's a chance for our peoples. Anything can happen in the next few years.

You're somewhat missing the point of that post.

Anyway, you are basically confirming the fact that Western Civilisation is indeed dead, and we are moving in the general direction of a new Culture arising from the period of the post-historical West in which we now live. I don't think personal attacks on Spengler or on me are really appropriate, especially since my own theories are strongly challenging this so-called "Holy Writ".

Nothing of significance will happen in the next few years, and any claim otherwise is pure self-deceit. This sort of blind hope and optimism is just the sign of a senile society and a dead civilisation, because it speaks to an inability to deal with harsh realities and negative outcomes.

[joe blowe]

see:
http://mises.org/daily/2726

[Gaztelu]

The way I see it, Western Civilization is not coming to an end. Rather, (as others here have written) it is constantly changing, which is natural. We can all agree that the West is in a stage that is unpreferable. However, we can all take solace in the fact that for better or for worse, things will change and the world will be a different place 50 or 100 years in the future.

[Magister Eckhart]

see:
http://mises.org/daily/2726

I've read it, it's interesting and might have some meaning on a microcosmic scale, but he thinks too small and too chauvinistically. I'm not talking about some petty republic that a pack of parvenus haphazardly erected on the far side of the Atlantic in the twilight of our Civilisation, but about an entire pervading Cultural Organism that existed when England was still governed by Roman law.


The way I see it, Western Civilization is not coming to an end. Rather, (as others here have written) it is constantly changing, which is natural. We can all agree that the West is in a stage that is unpreferable. However, we can all take solace in the fact that for better or for worse, things will change and the world will be a different place 50 or 100 years in the future.

The problem with this is the implications for Western Civilisation throughout time. The parallels between our own Civilisation and past Civilisations--both according to a Spenglerian Model as well as a Toybeean model-- are too blatant to ignore. The model of "constant change" is very close to the all-too-easily disproved "progress" model that we have been using since the mid-18th century.

All in all, you are right, things will be very different in a century; however, it is hard to say that one may still speak of "Western Civilisation" as a living thing either then or, indeed, now. What we are witnessing is a massive cultural collapse followed by the movement of another into that void. The change we are witnessing is not a minor event like a revolution, but indeed a history-shaping event unlike anything else. We must not understate what this "change" means for us and our society, now entering a period of post-history.

[joe blowe]

Let's not take it for granted that we could be sent back a thousand years or maybe just 200 years, say, before the steam engine.
The world economy today is an unstable dynamic system with a lot of tension inside. I certainly hope we are able to find a way to unravel the mess in a non-destructive way, however, all the while (and it will take a while) we will be vulnerable to destabilizing jolts. Many different groups have an interest in crashing this train, communists, muslims, anarchists that don't know any better, etc.
Lotsa fun in store for us.

[Turkey]

In a genological way, it's over. It's remains to us to prod, the most aggressive,masculine women into our hills and they will be ,sadly, the gene model for the europeans in the future. I know this reality isn't happy, but you must accept that the feminists of the last generation will be the purists of this generation. Our's will be a very highly dominant,uncomprimising breed. Unfortunately, uncomprimsing, is not a good survival trait. But it's the best we have.;) I don't offer perfection, just likelihood.:)

[Osweo]

In a genological way, it's over. It's remains to us to prod, the most aggressive,masculine women into our hills and they will be ,sadly, the gene model for the europeans in the future. I know this reality isn't happy, but you must accept that the feminists of the last generation will be the purists of this generation. Our's will be a very highly dominant,uncomprimising breed. Unfortunately, uncomprimsing, is not a good survival trait. But it's the best we have.;) I don't offer perfection, just likelihood.:)

WTF are you on about? Just because you have bad luck with women for whatever reason doesn't mean that there aren't tons of beautiful and feminine women out there who care about our Cause. There's plenty even on this forum. :tsk:

[Turkey]

WTF are you on about? Just because you have bad luck with women How many times do I have to tell you idiots? My posts are not sentimental!!!!!!

I have a great woman!


for whatever reason doesn't mean that there aren't tons of beautiful and feminine women out there who care about our Cause. There's plenty even on this forum. :tsk:

Just because you are unable to face reality. Doesn't mean I'm being negative.

[SwordoftheVistula]

In a genological way, it's over. It's remains to us to prod, the most aggressive,masculine women into our hills and they will be ,sadly, the gene model for the europeans in the future. I know this reality isn't happy, but you must accept that the feminists of the last generation will be the purists of this generation. Our's will be a very highly dominant,uncomprimising breed. Unfortunately, uncomprimsing, is not a good survival trait. But it's the best we have.;) I don't offer perfection, just likelihood.:)

Those won't have children. The European/derived peoples which are having children are largely of the religious type, people not prone to such things. In another generation or two they will be dominant.

I haven't done the research to prove it, but I suspect that the tilt of American midwest from socially moderate/liberal in the past, to the socially conservative norms of today have been because of vastly higher birthrates amongst the religious as opposed to the nonregligious.

Kansas used to be the home of social moderates like Dwight Eisenhower and Bob Dole and social liberals like Obama's mothers' family, now it's a center of religious conservatism.

Iowa Republicans used to be dominated by social liberals and moderates, now they are dominated by religious conservatives.

Minnesota is going the same way I think, I've encountered some hard line conservative people there, people in political office, 5 kids for this one, 7 kids for that one, 5 kids for that guy, and so on. Wisconsin and the other midwestern states, probably the same thing is going.

Most noticably, Israel has gone this way, from a socialist state to a right wing one, on the basis of high birthrates amongst the orthodox and especially the ultra-orthodox. These styles are inventions of the past century or so, their clothes are Polish peasant dress, etc.

[beaver]

Nothing of significance will happen in the next few years, and any claim otherwise is pure self-deceit. This sort of blind hope and optimism is just the sign of a senile society and a dead civilisation, because it speaks to an inability to deal with harsh realities and negative outcomes.

I would add: nothing of too bad will happen in the next few years. Europeans surely have crazy system now. Everyone should permanently throw away all his things and buy the latest one (e.g. to throw away some iPOD # and buy the iPOD # + 1 because its much better again) so that industries and markets would feel good. At the same time European/American model has the great potential of self-regulation. When the Europeans will find that they cannot buy Chinese pants any more (there are already no export and no money to import something) they will just restore the production of their own pants :D

[Magister Eckhart]

I would add: nothing of too bad will happen in the next few years. Europeans surely have crazy system now. Everyone should permanently throw away all his things and buy the latest one (e.g. to throw away some iPOD # and buy the iPOD # + 1 because its much better again) so that industries and markets would feel good. At the same time European/American model has the great potential of self-regulation. When the Europeans will find that they cannot buy Chinese pants any more (there are already no export and no money to import something) they will just restore the production of their own pants :D

You're talking about purely material circumstances, though, which in the long run are irrelevant to culture.

[Turkey]

see:
http://mises.org/daily/2726


It's funny that americans (white nationals?) believe that the the power in america has moved away from private enterprise, to the government, in some sort of communisaton, when infact the complete opposite has happened and is continuing to happen.

Amreica is completely governed by corporations. There is a half-caste nigger president pouring mexicans into the country because he's a socialist,(or what they call socialist these days. I believe it's socialism=white ethnic cleansing, at the moment),and the thin veneer of socialism serves the corporate purpose, but there is no way that all those mexicans would be allowed into the country if private corporations weren't profiting off it.

America is far more facist in it's economic power structure than communist.

If you want to see a welfare state, have a look at britain.

[Dead Eye]

I believe that its only just beginning.

Most people in the West are only just waking up(yes,even hardcore left wingers)and the Nationalist movement all throughout Europe is gaining ground.Just remember that we have just over half a century(or about that)to do something about it and the awakening is happening now.We still have a chance in my opinion to get rid of the immigrants and turn Europe into a fortress again.

I do believe though that the beginning of our end has begun and if nothing is done about it,then the process of our genocide will be a smooth one for those who want us gone.

We still have a chance people,we still have a chance.

[Flintlocke]

boohoo it's all over let's all surrender, there's no hope, it's over, let's hang our heads down in defeat, or shoot ourselves in the head. Light's out, the store's closed.

Of course never mind the fact that we haven't done absolutely anything about anything. No one has fought, there just have been some protests on the streets at most. Lemme put it in another way.


To be defeated and not submit, is victory; to be victorious and rest on one's laurels, is defeat.

Field Marshal, Józef Piłsudski

So what's it gonna be boys and girls? ;)

PS: Deadeye stop digging up old threads.

[zack]

If it is over like so many people say it is...why the fuck do we even come on this site? To bitch lol?

[Pallantides]

If it is over like so many people say it is...why the fuck do we even come on this site? To bitch lol?

To browse the 'Beautiful Non-European Woman' thread.

[Chronos]

bump

[Ghost Knight]

America is over with. Europe has hope.