View Full Version : Viminacium YDNA leaked
From upcoming Reich lab paper.
All samples were 1240K sequenced at Reich Lab, so they are SNP confirmed.
Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)
G x 5 (PF3148 x 1; PF3148>L91 x 1; P303 x 1; L497 x 1; L497>Z1815 x 1)
R1b x 3 (Z2103 x 1; U106 x 1; U152>L2>Z367 x 1)
R1a x 2 (Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123 x 1)
J x 2 (M304 x 1; L24 x 1)
T x 1 (M184)
I1 x 1 (M253)
I2 x 1 (L596)
Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 3 (M35 x 1; L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)
J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)
R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)
G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)
E x 1 (L618)
J x 1 (M304)
R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)
Lepenski Vir - 2:
E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman
J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval
Mediana - 2 (labeled Serbia_Gepid):
G x 1 (P287)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)
CommonSense
08-31-2020, 10:10 PM
Can't wait to see what conspiracy theories the growing community of fans of pseudo-history in Serbia will concoct to explain this! :)
gixajo
08-31-2020, 10:12 PM
And comparing this with nowadays people of that area are they many diffrences?
Edit:I donīt see many R1a, but, if it was a Roman settlement, could have a logic explanation.
Re-edit:strange clades for r1a...Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123
And comparing this with nowadays people of that area are they many diffrences?
Edit:I donīt see many R1a, but, if it was a Roman settlement, could have a logic explanation.
Re-edit:strange clades for r1a...Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123
Big difference. No presence of Slavic I2a and R1a clades whatsoever, not even among medieval samples (which are few in number though)
Dr_Maul
08-31-2020, 10:34 PM
A lot of J2.
Peterski
08-31-2020, 10:37 PM
And comparing this with nowadays people of that area are they many diffrences?
No any I2a-Din and no R1a (except for "Asian" / Indo-Iranian Z2124) in Roman era samples (n=39).
not even among medieval samples
Early Medieval samples either predate the arrival of Slavs, or Slavs burned their dead at that time.
Interesting is presumably Germanic I1-Z58 among Romans and Gepids (1 each)
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS8647/
Peterski
08-31-2020, 10:42 PM
Interesting is Germanic I1-Z58 among Romans and Gepids (1 each)
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS8647/
It says: formed 4100 ybp, TMRCA 4100 ybp - so much older than the foundation of Rome (ca. 2800 ybp).
Peterski
08-31-2020, 10:47 PM
Re-edit:strange clades for r1a...Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123
Scythian / Indo-Iranian / Turkic, today more common in Asia than in Europe.
ixulescu
08-31-2020, 10:50 PM
No any I2a-Din and no R1a (except for "Asian" / Indo-Iranian Z2124) in Roman era samples (n=39).
Early Medieval samples either predate the arrival of Slavs, or Slavs burned their dead at that time.
Why would they be found in Roman samples? it makes no sense. It's the Illyrian and Thracian samples that are relevant for this question.
Peterski
08-31-2020, 10:51 PM
Why would they be found in Roman samples?
Roman? Do you suggest that the inhabitants were immigrants from Italy?
I think they were mostly locals, in Italy haplogroup E is not that common.
Insuperable
08-31-2020, 10:52 PM
I guess as expected.
gixajo
08-31-2020, 10:57 PM
Scythian / Indo-Iranian / Turkic, today more common in Asia than in Europe.
Yeah, during some time I had a Z2125 as haplotype due to a habitual false positive with MyHeritage raw data in Morleyīs predictor and Cladefinder.
ixulescu
08-31-2020, 10:59 PM
Roman? Do you suggest that the inhabitants were immigrants from Italy?
I think they were mostly locals, in Italy haplogroup E is not that common.
omg dude, do I really have to answer this question?
Roman colonists had a different haplotype distribution than both the Italic population and native Balkan population.
This only hints towards the population at Roman sites. But of course it's not a census, just a hint.
gixajo
08-31-2020, 11:00 PM
Why would they be found in Roman samples? it makes no sense. It's the Illyrian and Thracian samples that are relevant for this question.
In Roman settlements usually are Roman, local people and mixed people burials, as well as auxiliar troops and people from all the corners of the Roman empire and foreigners, as merchants or slaves, in places like this I don't think it's easy to find representative proportions of the genetics of the area at that time, at least not entirely representative.
Edit:probably seeing the mtdna could unveil more things tan Ydna in these type of archeological sites.
re-edit:and autosomal too.
Peterski
08-31-2020, 11:03 PM
Yeah let's hope they will also publish Iron Age (Pre-Roman) samples.
The Es are most likely Romanized Moesians. This site was located in Moesia, which is Thracian land.
Matches that Bulgarian Thracian who was also some older E1b mutation.
Looks like E was major HG among Thracians, but lets wait for autosomal to get a clearer picture.
Insuperable
08-31-2020, 11:20 PM
When are we getting autosomal data?
-Scar-
08-31-2020, 11:33 PM
Quite suprising seeing Germanic I1. I always assumed I1 outside of Italy and few other regions was spread gradually not mostly with Germanic migrations (only partially) but that is likely wrong.
Peterski
08-31-2020, 11:42 PM
There is also one R1b-U106 among Roman era samples.
CommonSense
09-01-2020, 12:01 AM
The Es are most likely Romanized Moesians. This site was located in Moesia, which is Thracian land.
Matches that Bulgarian Thracian who was also some older E1b mutation.
Looks like E was major HG among Thracians, but lets wait for autosomal to get a clearer picture.
It's highly likely that's the case when you look at modern Y-DNA. In southern Serbia and Bulgaria E-V13 reaches 20%.
xripkan
09-01-2020, 12:17 AM
From upcoming Reich lab paper.
Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)
G x 5 (PF3148 x 1; PF3148>L91 x 1; P303 x 1; L497 x 1; L497>Z1815 x 1)
R1b x 3 (Z2103 x 1; U106 x 1; U152>L2>Z367 x 1)
R1a x 2 (Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123 x 1)
J x 2 (M304 x 1; L24 x 1)
T x 1 (M184)
I1 x 1 (M253)
I2 x 1 (L596)
Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 3 (M35 x 1; L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)
J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)
R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)
G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)
E x 1 (L618)
J x 1 (M304)
R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)
Lepenski Vir - 2:
E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman
J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval
Mediana - 2 (labeled Serbia_Gepid):
G x 1 (P287)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)
Thanks for this! Is there any information about their autosomal analysis?
Thanks for this! Is there any information about their autosomal analysis?
When are we getting autosomal data?
Soon.
Big difference. No presence of Slavic I2a and R1a clades whatsoever, not even among medieval samples (which are few in number though)
No any I2a-Din and no R1a (except for "Asian" / Indo-Iranian Z2124) in Roman era samples (n=39).
Early Medieval samples either predate the arrival of Slavs, or Slavs burned their dead at that time.
It says: formed 4100 ybp, TMRCA 4100 ybp - so much older than the foundation of Rome (ca. 2800 ybp).
Quite suprising seeing Germanic I1. I always assumed I1 outside of Italy and few other regions was spread gradually not mostly with Germanic migrations (only partially) but that is likely wrong.
There is also one R1b-U106 among Roman era samples.
Update: these released clades aren't final, we will need to wait for BAM files analysis for that. So most likely these medieval I-M423 are I2-din, I1/R-U106 belongs to younger Germanic clades, as well as E-V13s, J2s, G2a having deeper subclades present among modern day Balkanites.
It's highly likely that's the case when you look at modern Y-DNA. In southern Serbia and Bulgaria E-V13 reaches 20%.
Yes. This paper should include loads of samples from all over Balkans not only Serbia.
Here is post from Anthrogenica speaking about unreleased Bulgarian Thracians with tons of Ev13, plus one Bulgar Q sample:
Recently came to my attention a few videos, which claim a new big project about testing old bones from different periods in Bulgaria. This will be between Dr.Reich's Harvard Lab and the Bulgarian Archaeological Institute.
It seems the Harvard lab has some unpublished results from the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe. They appear for a short time on the screen of this video (around 6:00 min) but are covered by the head and are a mirror image. I managed to see that all assigned haplogroups from the Bulgarian Iron age are some kind of E:
https://sedemosmi.tv/production/%d1%...2-2020-%d0%b3/
There is one E1b1b1a1b1a - V13, 2 E1b1b1a1b1 - L618 and one given only as E. They are from Kapitan Andreevo-Svilengrad area, this is South East Bulgaria, close to the Turkish/Greek border. From this area is also the previous low coverage Thracian samples, worked out as M78. This is the hinterland of the Odrysian Thracian kingdom and there is a reason to believe that the Thracians from the Classical period are also predominantly V13.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom
The guy on the video also mentioned that one Medieval sample from 9th c. Central Bulgaria has been proven Q1a2a. According to him, this must be some Old Bulgar, however not completely sure in not an Avar. He is paddling the Iran-Caucasus origin of the Old Bulgars, something most Bulgarians don't agree with. At any case more bones will be tested with this new project and the truth will be revealed at last.
Lucas
09-01-2020, 10:06 AM
Update: these released clades aren't final, we will need to wait for BAM files analysis for that. So most likely these medieval I-M423 are I2-din, I1/R-U106 belongs to younger Germanic clades, as well as E-V13s, J2s, G2a having deeper subclades present among modern day Balkanites.
What is thw source of this leak? AG? Eurogenes blog?
Why would they be found in Roman samples? it makes no sense. It's the Illyrian and Thracian samples that are relevant for this question.
Roman? Do you suggest that the inhabitants were immigrants from Italy?
I think they were mostly locals, in Italy haplogroup E is not that common.
omg dude, do I really have to answer this question?
Roman colonists had a different haplotype distribution than both the Italic population and native Balkan population.
This only hints towards the population at Roman sites. But of course it's not a census, just a hint.
In Roman settlements usually are Roman, local people and mixed people burials, as well as auxiliar troops and people from all the corners of the Roman empire and foreigners, as merchants or slaves, in places like this I don't think it's easy to find representative proportions of the genetics of the area at that time, at least not entirely representative.
Edit:probably seeing the mtdna could unveil more things tan Ydna in these type of archeological sites.
re-edit:and autosomal too.
Settlement was mixed with strong Paleo-Balkan element. From AG:
There's this interesting paper that covers the burials of soldiers in Viminacium; https://www.academia.edu/6897483/SOL...ACIUM_CEMETERY. It is stated that legionary soldiers were an active part of the population of this city and that the majority of these legionaries were from the Legio VII Claudia; which was based in Viminacium from AD 58 till the 4th century, possibly replacing the older Legio IV Scythica. The city also hosted the Legio IV Flavia Felix for some time. As for the ethnic origins of these legionaries, it seems to have been rather mixed between locals of the Balkans and soldiers from the other Roman provinces (with some even coming from the Near East). During the 2nd and 3rd centuries in particular, more troops were recruited from the Balkan provinces of Thracia, Moesia Superior, Macedonia etc.
As for the more general population of the city, this paper does touch on that: https://www.academia.edu/2274871/Ter..._Slavic_Tribes. Typical Dacian ceramics and pottery seem to have been an important element from the 2nd century BC and into the 3rd century AD, all of which were likely locally produced, suggesting a significant Dacian ethnic or cultural element in the city. Though in later periods there seems to have been an influx of migrants, especially from the Greek cultural sphere, into the city as it was flourishing in regards to trade. Interestingly it is mentioned that the more wealthy and luxurious burials are attributed to a wealthy class of migrants from Asia Minor, and that inhumation in general may have been the result of eastern cultural influence. Germanic burials also begin to show up in the 5th and 6th centuries AD.
Here are two papers on Timacum Minus, the first one has detailed descriptions of most of the graves from which are sequenced individuals:
Military Graves from the Late Roman Necropolis at Slog in Ravna (Timacum Minus): https://www.academia.edu/9853696/Military_Graves_from_the_Late_Roman_Necropolis_at_ Slog_in_Ravna_Timacum_Minus_Starinar_64
Votive Altar of Lucius Petronius Timachus:https://www.academia.edu/9853963/Votive_Altar_of_Lucius_Petronius_Timachus
Very interesting read. I have also found this paper on Timacum Minus: https://www.mdpi.com/2073-445X/7/4/126/htm. Here both Legio V Macedonica and Legio IV Scythica were temporarily encamped on their way to the Danube, though under Vespasian the presence of troops in the area became more permanent. Vespasian initially relocated the auxiliary Cohors I Thracum Syriaca from the province of Syria to Timacum Minus, however under the rule of Marcus Aurelius they also were replaced by the Cohors II Aurelia Dardanorum in AD 169. As the name suggests, this cohort was made up of auxiliaries from the Roman province of Dardania. What I find especially interesting about this is how J2b-M241 (most certainly L283+) and R1b-CTS1450 show up alongside E-V13.
Also a paper on the auxiliary cohorts stationed in Moesia Superior: https://www.academia.edu/38650516/Au...iae_Superioris.
What is thw source of this leak? AG? Eurogenes blog?
Serb member from anthrogenica who had a look at Serbian samples, I think.
Token
09-01-2020, 10:19 AM
Can't wait to get my hands on these Gepids. I wonder if they will have Hunnic admixture like the already published Gepid.
So it seems around 30% of total Roman samples will be under various E-V13 clades.
Scythian / Indo-Iranian / Turkic, today more common in Asia than in Europe.
Yeah, most likely Scythian auxiliary. There are few graves in Viminacium that could be Scythian.
Ion Basescul
09-01-2020, 10:43 AM
The Es are most likely Romanized Moesians. This site was located in Moesia, which is Thracian land.
Matches that Bulgarian Thracian who was also some older E1b mutation.
Looks like E was major HG among Thracians, but lets wait for autosomal to get a clearer picture.
One Getae in Moldova (scy197) was also E, E-V13 to be precise.
Lucas
09-01-2020, 10:55 AM
Can't wait to get my hands on these Gepids. I wonder if they will have Hunnic admixture like the already published Gepid.
If they were late Gepids nof fresh newcomers they were Balkan/Pannonian admixed most likely.
bained
09-01-2020, 11:15 AM
Nice. Is there mtDNA info?
Nice. Is there mtDNA info?
There should be when paper is released, also autosomal DNA.
Faklon
09-01-2020, 11:31 AM
Wild I2 appears in the middle ages, unban Sinan
Faklon
09-01-2020, 11:38 AM
Also interesting that R1a makes a presence in Viminacium, can the particular subclade be "Scythian" or something?
Also interesting that R1a makes a presence in Viminacium, can the particular subclade be "Scythian" or something?
Yes,it's Asian clade.
Varda
09-01-2020, 12:42 PM
From upcoming Reich lab paper.
Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)
G x 5 (PF3148 x 1; PF3148>L91 x 1; P303 x 1; L497 x 1; L497>Z1815 x 1)
R1b x 3 (Z2103 x 1; U106 x 1; U152>L2>Z367 x 1)
R1a x 2 (Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123 x 1)
J x 2 (M304 x 1; L24 x 1)
T x 1 (M184)
I1 x 1 (M253)
I2 x 1 (L596)
Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 3 (M35 x 1; L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)
J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)
R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)
G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)
E x 1 (L618)
J x 1 (M304)
R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)
Lepenski Vir - 2:
E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman
J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval
Mediana - 2 (labeled Serbia_Gepid):
G x 1 (P287)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)
In Viminacijum are founded 3 sarcophaguses in which are buried members of high class originated from Middle East.
Look here, it's written under the video https://www.rts.rs/page/magazine/sr/story/2523/nauka/4046625/viminacijum-sarkofag-.html
In Viminacijum are founded 3 sarcophaguses in which are buried members of high class originated from Middle East.
Look here, it's written below video https://www.rts.rs/page/magazine/sr/story/2523/nauka/4046625/viminacijum-sarkofag-.html
Yes,it's mentioned in archeological description of the area. Seems huge melting pot, with Balkan legionares being main stock there. But also soldiers from other provinces.
Also some Germanics and Alans-Scythians. It seem actual Romans from Italy were fewest.
Varda
09-01-2020, 12:50 PM
Yes,it's mentioned in archeological description of the area. Seems huge melting pot, with Balkan legionares being main stock there. But also soldiers from other provinces.
Also some Germanics and Alans-Scythians. It seem actual Romans from Italy were fewest.
It seems population of Roman Viminacium was mix of romanized natives, settlers from middle east and Roman colonists from Italy.
It seems population of Roman Viminacium was mix of romanized natives, settlers from middle east and Roman colonists from Italy.
+ some few barbarians (but not Slavic)
Seems so, yes.
vbnetkhio
09-01-2020, 01:33 PM
It's highly likely that's the case when you look at modern Y-DNA. In southern Serbia and Bulgaria E-V13 reaches 20%.
actually, in Bulgaria it's around 20%, in Southern Serbia and Montnegro it's around 30
Bosniensis
09-04-2020, 07:25 PM
I don't trust this research before at least Serbian or any Balkan team confirms similar results.
Caballero
09-06-2020, 11:21 AM
E-V13 dispersal is related to the turbulences of Late Bronze Age. We don't see any E-V13 in Early Bronze Age Bulgaria, neither in Early Bronze Age North Serbia Maros/Mokrin culture which was part of East Carpathian Bronze Age. We will neither see it in Early Bronze Age Greece or Albania.
It's the somewhere in between Alpine-Pannonia/West-Carpathians where E-V13 initially started to spread. It wasn't a Neolithic Balkan haplogroup at all. Just as I2a2-Din spread during Early Middle Ages in the Balkans, E-V13 did in a similar fashion during Middle to Late Bronze Age.
bained
09-26-2020, 06:39 PM
102444 Found this on the Serbian archeology Facebook group. It appears to be reconstruction of the skulls found there.
Not a Cop
09-27-2020, 09:35 PM
From upcoming Reich lab paper.
Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)
E x 1 (L618)
J x 1 (M304)
R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)
Interesting, a rare case of my subclade among ancient DNA.
Ebion
10-10-2020, 08:48 PM
From upcoming Reich lab paper.
Viminacium - 28 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 13 (L618 x 6; L618>V13 x 3; Z830 x 1; Z830>M123 x 1; Z1902 x 1; M96 x 1)
G x 5 (PF3148 x 1; PF3148>L91 x 1; P303 x 1; L497 x 1; L497>Z1815 x 1)
R1b x 3 (Z2103 x 1; U106 x 1; U152>L2>Z367 x 1)
R1a x 2 (Z2124>Z2122 x 1; Z2124>Z2123 x 1)
J x 2 (M304 x 1; L24 x 1)
T x 1 (M184)
I1 x 1 (M253)
I2 x 1 (L596)
Timacum Minus, Slog necropolis - 10 (labeled Serbia_Roman):
E x 3 (M35 x 1; L618 x 1; L618>V13 x 1)
J x 3 (M304 x 1; M410 x 1; M241 x 1)
R1b x 2 (Z2103 x 1; Z2103>CTS1450 x 1)
G x 1 (CTS342>FGC12126)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
I2 x 2 (M423 x 2)
E x 1 (L618)
J x 1 (M304)
R1b x 1 (P312>DF99)
Lepenski Vir - 2:
E x 1 (M35) - Serbia_Roman
J x 1 (M102) - Serbia_Medieval
Mediana - 2 (labeled Serbia_Gepid):
G x 1 (P287)
I1 x 1 (Z58>CTS8647)
Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002)
It seems that the Romans were responsible for the spread of E-V13 in the Balkans. This may also explain why Ancient Greeks were J2 and G whereas Modern "Greeks" are E-V13.
Ive been out of the loop regarding all of this lately. Is there an update on when ancient autosomal samples will come out?
I’ve been out of the loop regarding all of this lately. Is there an update on when ancient autosomal samples will come out?
I don't know, but hope soon, let's say early next year.
It seems that the Romans were responsible for the spread of E-V13 in the Balkans. This may also explain why Ancient Greeks were J2 and G whereas Modern "Greeks" are E-V13.
Pretty sure these E-V13 Romans are local Moesians, but I may be wrong. We'll find out eventually.
vbnetkhio
12-17-2020, 09:37 AM
It seems that the Romans were responsible for the spread of E-V13 in the Balkans. This may also explain why Ancient Greeks were J2 and G whereas Modern "Greeks" are E-V13.
We have just a dozen ancient Greeks samples from 2 sites. They could be misleading when it comes to Y-dna.
E-V13 is the highest in parts of Italy colonized by Greeks, 20% :
https://i.imgur.com/AhLbKF7.jpg
this is why I think ancient Greeks also had a lot of it.
They could have had even more, let's say 30%
vbnetkhio
12-17-2020, 09:45 AM
Pretty sure these E-V13 Romans are local Moesians, but I may be wrong. We'll find out eventually.
What if they were Greeks, maybe south Thracians or Macedonians, and it was them who brought that southern autosomal shift to the northern Balkans?
Mycenaean samples absorb all of my southern shift in this model:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?338413-bronze-age-European-k13-calculator&p=7031200&viewfull=1#post7031200
What if they were Greeks, maybe south Thracians or Macedonians, and it was them who brought that southern autosomal shift to the northern Balkans?
Mycenaean samples absorb all of my southern shift in this model:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?338413-bronze-age-European-k13-calculator&p=7031200&viewfull=1#post7031200
Very good idea to explain how very southern is pre-Slavic part in majority SW Slavs. Great hypothesis!
PaleoEuropean
12-17-2020, 11:05 AM
Big difference. No presence of Slavic I2a and R1a clades whatsoever, not even among medieval samples (which are few in number though)
No any I2a-Din and no R1a (except for "Asian" / Indo-Iranian Z2124) in Roman era samples (n=39).
Early Medieval samples either predate the arrival of Slavs, or Slavs burned their dead at that time.
Timacum Minus, Kuline necropolis - 5 (labeled Serbia_Early_Middle_Age):
I2 x 2 (M423 x 2) is most likely Slavic (i-l161) and Gomolava - 1 (labeled Serbia_Medieval):
I2 x 1 (M423>L621>CTS4002) is I2a Din.
-{Floor}-
08-11-2023, 07:01 AM
The y-dna and mtdna of these samples:
I15527 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis 70-208 cal CE R1b-U106
I15528 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. T1a1n
I15529 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis J1,J-Z2215,J-Z2217,J-CTS1026,J-Z1828,J-Z18463,J-Z18471,J-BY9
I15530 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. K1a2a
I15531 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis 258-413 cal CE I1 H10a1
I15532 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis T-L206,T-M70,T-L131 J2b1c
I15533 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis 246-365 cal CE R1a-M417,R-Z645 V1a1
I15534 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. H5
I15535 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. H1b
I15536 Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis .. U5a1j
I15486 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. T2
I15490 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 H6b
I15491 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis H7
I15492 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis R1b-U152,R-L2,R-Z258,R-Z367,R-L20 H7
I15493 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. H8c
I15494 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. H5a2
I15495 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880,E-Z5017,E-Z5016,E-Y3762,E-CTS6377,E-CTS9320 H49
I15498 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis H36
I15499 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis 80-215 cal CE E-M78,E-Z1902,E-V12,E-Y2863,E-FGC14377,E-FGC14378,E-V32 L2a1j
I15501 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. J1c1
I15502 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis E-Z830,E-PF1962,E-M123 U3a2a1
I15509 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. I4b
I15510 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis G-PF3148 H26a1
I15511 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. H
I15512 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. X2+225
I15514 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis .. U4a2a
I15515 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis R1b-Z2103 K1a3a
I15516 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis G-P303 H13a1a1
I15517 Viminacium, Pirivoj Necropolis 124-228 cal CE J2a-L26,J-PF5087,J-PF5160,J-L24,J-Y22662,J-L25,J-Z438,J-Z387,J-L70 HV
I15485 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. H
I15487 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. T1a
I15488 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. H41a
I15489 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis G-PF3148,G-PF3177,L91,G-Z6484,G-Z6284,G-Z6128,G-Y140837,G-Y140827 H
I15496 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. T2b+16362
I15497 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. J1c
I15500 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis 129-247 cal CE .. R0a1a
I15504 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 H47a
I15505 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. J1d1a1
I15506 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. HV9+152
I15507 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 K1c2
I15508 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. W6
I15519 Viminacium, Rit Necropolis .. R0a2d
I15503 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis .. U5a2c
I15513 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 H8c
I15518 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 U2e1a1
I15520 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis R1a-M417,R-Z645 U5b2b
I15521 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis G-P303 H
I15522 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis .. H
I15523 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis .. H+152
I15524 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis I2c-L596,I-Y16649,I-Y16419 HV9+152
I15525 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 H13a1a1
I15526 Viminacium, Vise Grobalja Necropolis E-M123,E-M34,E-Z841,E-Z849,E-CTS1727,E-L791 H13a2b2
I15549 Mediana 259-409 cal CE I1,I-Z58,I-Z59,I-CTS8647,Z60,Z140,Z141 H5b
I15550 Mediana .. H41a
I15544 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis 261-418 cal CE E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 HV9
I15545 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis 417-538 cal CE I1,I-Z58,I-Z59,I-CTS8647,Z60,Z140,Z141 H1
I15546 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis J2b2a-L283,J-Z622,J-Z600,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597 L2a1+143+16189 (16192)
I15547 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis J2b2a-L283 H+152
I15548 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis J2b2a-L283,J-Z585,J-Z615,J-Z597,J-Z638,J-Z1297,J-Z8421,J-Z631,J-Z1043 W+194
I15551 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis 242-375 cal CE R1b-Z2103,R-Z2105 T1a
I15552 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis R1b-Z2103,R-M12149,R-Z2106,R-Z2108,R-Z2110,R-CTS7556,R-Y5592,R-CTS1450 H1c
I15553 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273 T2b25
I15554 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880 H
I15555 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis G-P303,G-L140,G-PF3346,G-PF3345,G-CTS342,G-FGC12126 X2i+@225
I15556 Timacum Minus, Slog Necropolis .. H10d
I15537 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis E-V13,E-Z1057,E-CTS1273,E-BY3880,E-Z5017,E-Z5016,E-Y3762 H13a2a
I15538 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis 892-989 cal CE R1b-P312,R-D99 H1e1a6
I15539 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis R1b-P312,R-D99 H1e1a6,H1e1a6
I15540 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis .. J1b1a1
I15541 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis I2a1b-L621,I-CTS10936,I-S19848,I-CTS4002,I-CTS10228,I-Y3120 K1a4
I15542 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis 897-1021 cal CE I2a1b-L621,I-CTS10936,I-S19848,I-CTS4002,I-CTS10228,I-Y3120 H9a
I15543 Timacum Minus, Kuline Necropolis J2-L26,J-Z6064,J-Z6055,J-Z6057,J-Y7013,J-Y7010 H1f+16093
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