The Middle East: Ethnic Map

[Kyp]

I made this map out of boredom, possible small errors are to be forgiven

https://i.imgur.com/n5gd3lY.png


Edit: Please tell me if there are mistakes and I will edit it. This Map is in working process! The map is majority based.

[RatCat]

Very nice job. I think you forgot the abkhazians and ossetians in georgia.

[Kyp]

Very nice job. I think you forgot the abkhazians and ossetians in georgia.

Yes I didnt consider that, will look up the numbers and edit it if necessary

[sioned]

With due respect, but Georgia is completly wrong

Here is more accurate:
https://georgien.blogspot.com/2009/09/ethnography-ethnic-map-from-georgia.html

[kundur]

In Turkey, there are pockets of Kurds in Central Anatolia, and pockets of Circassians in from north to south as well. In Georgia, there are Armenians and Azerbaijanis too, in addition to Ossets and Abkhaz. Levant and Iraq might also be further detailed with Assyrians, Chaldeans, Alawites (Arab ethno-religion group).

[Kyp]

Very nice job. I think you forgot the abkhazians and ossetians in georgia.


With due respect, but Georgia is completly wrong

Here is more accurate:
https://georgien.blogspot.com/2009/09/ethnography-ethnic-map-from-georgia.html

Better now?

[Dušan]

Maronites, Palestinians?

[Kyp]

In Turkey, there are pockets of Kurds in Central Anatolia, and pockets of Circassians in from north to south as well. In Georgia, there are Armenians and Azerbaijanis too, in addition to Ossets and Abkhaz. Levant and Iraq might also be further detailed with Assyrians, Chaldeans, Alawites (Arab ethno-religion group).

I agree. Will look up demographics of these region in more detail.

Do Kurds form a majority anywhere in Central Anatolia?

[kundur]

I agree. Will look up demographics of these region in more detail.

Do Kurds form a majority anywhere in Central Anatolia?

I guess so. I heard that they were majority in parts of northern Konya, southern Ankara etc. Strong Circassian presence in highland Kayseri etc.

[RatCat]

I agree. Will look up demographics of these region in more detail.

Do Kurds form a majority anywhere in Central Anatolia?

Circassians form a majority in north-west Kayseri and some parts of Samsun and Düzce.

https://i.imgur.com/jcZxBaV.png

This is Kayseri.

[Kyp]

Circassians form a majority in north-west Kayseri and some parts of Samsun and Düzce.

https://i.imgur.com/jcZxBaV.png

This is Kayseri.

There is just the Template for all of Kayseri, so it has to be the majority of all of Kayseri

Update: I edited some regions in North Iraq who are arab majority not kurdish. The same goes for Mardin, Turkey

[Peterski]

There is just the Template for all of Kayseri, so it has to be the majority of all of Kayseri

Update: I edited some regions in North Iraq who are arab majority not kurdish. The same goes for Mardin, Turkey

It is possible to paint one region with two colors.

Use stripes or dots or checkerboard.

[Kyp]

It is possible to paint one region with two colors.

Use stripes or dots or checkerboard.

Will look into it. But it will be very confusing as most regions in the Middle east are very diverse

[Jana]

Great work. But what about Assyrians?

[Chris596]

This is a good map Kyp, looks nicely done. Also, do you think Cyprus should be included or not? I consider it as a part of Europe geographically, but I mean many people there are genetically West Asian (Cypriots themselves for example), or Turks of course. I've seen some people saying that Cyprus shouldn't be included in the European category, I don't know about that. I have a friend who's been there, he said it was nice and looked like Southern Europe.

[Peterski]

Will look into it. But it will be very confusing as most regions in the Middle east are very diverse

Yes but two colors only for regions without any clear majority, or with a very numerous minority.

[Kaspias]

Well, it is not a very good idea to draw such a detailed map. For Turkey, at least.

When excluding Eastern Thrace:

Basically half of NW Anatolia is Balkan Turkish + Muslim Balkanians. Balkan Turks form the majority in Bursa, Yalova, Bilecik, Çanakkale. Also strong presence(from 25% to 50%) in Izmir, Manisa, Balıkesir, Kütahya, Eskişehir, Istanbul, Kocaeli. Lesser presence (from 10% to 25%) in Aydın, Muğla, Afyon, Denizli, Uşak, Isparta, Konya, Ankara, Sakarya, Adana, Mersin, Kayseri, Samsun.

Pomaks live in Balıkesir, Çanakkale, Bursa, Izmir, Yalova, Istanbul.
Albanians live in Bursa, Çanakkale Izmir, Istanbul.
Bosniaks lives in Sakarya, Kocaeli, Istanbul, Bursa, Bilecik.

And some more which I miss :)

[Kyp]

Well, it is not a very good idea to draw such a detailed map. For Turkey, at least.

When excluding Eastern Thrace:

Basically half of NW Anatolia is Balkan Turkish + Muslim Balkanians. Balkan Turks form the majority in Bursa, Yalova, Bilecik, Çanakkale. Also strong presence(from 25% to 50%) in Izmir, Manisa, Balıkesir, Kütahya, Eskişehir, Istanbul, Kocaeli. Lesser presence (from 10% to 25%) in Aydın, Muğla, Afyon, Denizli, Uşak, Isparta, Konya, Ankara, Sakarya, Adana, Mersin, Kayseri, Samsun.

Pomaks live in Balıkesir, Çanakkale, Bursa, Izmir, Yalova, Istanbul.
Albanians live in Bursa, Çanakkale Izmir, Istanbul.
Bosniaks lives in Sakarya, Kocaeli, Istanbul, Bursa, Bilecik.

And some more which I miss :)

I could work with different reddish tones

[Kyp]

Great work. But what about Assyrians?

Any information on where they form a majority?

[Peterski]

Any information on where they form a majority?

Probably in Al-Hamdaniya District.

BTW, you forgot about Gaza Strip or you painted it as Jewish, when it should be Arab.

Edit:

Never mind, Gaza Strip is so small that I had to zoom in to see it. But it is painted as Arab.

[Kyp]

Probably in Al-Hamdaniya District.

BTW, you forgot about Gaza Strip or you painted it as Jewish, when it should be Arab.

Edit:

Never mind, Gaza Strip is so small that I had to zoom in to see it. But it is painted as Arab.

updated

[andre]

With due respect, but Georgia is completly wrong

Here is more accurate:
https://georgien.blogspot.com/2009/09/ethnography-ethnic-map-from-georgia.html

Rom people and moldovans in the same category?

[Peterski]

Can you divide Arabs into Peninsular:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_Arabic

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Árabe_Península_Arábica.PNG

Plus Levantine and Mesopotamian?:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Arabic_Dialects.svg/1024px-Arabic_Dialects.svg.png

[Hamilcar]

Maybe this can help you :

https://i.imgur.com/1lFqOF1.jpg

[Kyp]

This is a good map Kyp, looks nicely done. Also, do you think Cyprus should be included or not? I consider it as a part of Europe geographically, but I mean many people there are genetically West Asian (Cypriots themselves for example), or Turks of course. I've seen some people saying that Cyprus shouldn't be included in the European category, I don't know about that. I have a friend who's been there, he said it was nice and looked like Southern Europe.

i don't know. I just took the Asia template and this is what was included.

[Chris596]

i don't know. I just took the Asia template and this is what was included.

I see. I think they are geographically in Europe but there are people who may disagree with me.


Distance to: Cypriot
0.02327352 Druze
0.02380878 Syrian_Jew
0.02390997 Romaniote_Jew
0.02481406 Lebanese_Christian
0.02643630 Lebanese_Druze
0.03132517 Greek_Kos
0.03214235 Sephardic_Jew
0.03222010 Karaite_Egypt
0.03250706 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03373577 Lebanese_Muslim
0.03440494 Italian_Jew
0.03668070 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.03822151 Greek_Crete
0.03906185 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.04386972 Tunisian_Jew
0.04532379 Italian_Calabria
0.04564005 Libyan_Jew
0.04625076 Iraqi_Jew
0.04768279 Samaritan
0.04817793 Italian_Campania
0.04818978 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.04908204 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.05029054 Georgian_Jew
0.05051786 Syrian
0.05070756 Moroccan_Jew

Target: Cypriot
Distance: 0.5634% / 0.00563430
31.6 Lebanese_Christian
19.4 Greek_Trabzon
12.4 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
11.2 Samaritan
9.2 Greek_Peloponnese
7.2 Sardinian
4.0 Greek_Crete
2.0 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
1.6 Italian_Lombardy
1.0 Italian_Molise
0.4 Italian_Marche

[Dr_Maul]

Good map

I recommend you change Kohgiluyeh and Chahar Mahali in Iran from Persian to Lur
Also Nagorno to Armenian

[Sora]

Nice map! :thumb001:

[Bender1999]

Nice map! Maybe that could help:
Still not very accurate, but the best ethnic map of Turkey i have ever seen:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/4a92nj/ethnic_groups_in_turkey_1011x631/

Maybe also helpful, although from 1961:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Turkey

On the other hand, this maps are full of bullshit and just often used by people with specific ideological intentions...:


https://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east

https://www.facebook.com/IFLOVEMAPS/photos/the-ethnic-groups-of-the-middle-east-source-httpowlysdn750wkcen/2825087857534944/

[ModernMaskil]

Great work. But what about Assyrians?

Much as I'd like them to be, they aren't the majority in any region, including Al-Hasakah where they're placed in the map.

[ModernMaskil]

To make my own contribution if you plan on updating, the Israeli Galil/North District is majority Arab.

[Halgurd]

Much as I'd like them to be, they aren't the majority in any region, including Al-Hasakah where they're placed in the map.

That's a big flaw of this map. Assyrians form a majority in areas such as Alqosh and Ainkawa but this map is mostly focusing on the demographics of provincial boundaries which cannot be done in the Middle East.

Kurds form a majority in many parts of Maras, West Azerbaijan, Adiyaman. Also the main ethnic group in Kirkuk province is Kurdish, followed by Arabs who are mostly located in the south western Hawija district followed by Turkmens who mostly reside within the city. Turkmens are also a majority in Tal Afar.

[Dr_Maul]

Also I don't know if you have the ability to split provinces
If so you might want to split West Azerbaijan into Kurdish/Azeri parts

[Kyp]

To make my own contribution if you plan on updating, the Israeli Galil/North District is majority Arab.


That's a big flaw of this map. Assyrians form a majority in areas such as Alqosh and Ainkawa but this map is mostly focusing on the demographics of provincial boundaries which cannot be done in the Middle East.

Kurds form a majority in many parts of Maras, West Azerbaijan, Adiyaman. Also the main ethnic group in Kirkuk province is Kurdish, followed by Arabs who are mostly located in the south western Hawija district followed by Turkmens who mostly reside within the city. Turkmens are also a majority in Tal Afar.


Also I don't know if you have the ability to split provinces
If so you might want to split West Azerbaijan into Kurdish/Azeri parts

fixed (I can't split it manually though. It will make the split randomly.)
I'm only willing to do it when there is no majority. Otherwise the map will never be finished.

I've also now put "Majorites:" in front of the ethnic groups to make clear what the subject of the map is.

[Dr_Maul]

fixed (I can't split it manually though. It will make the split randomly.)
I'm only willing to do it when there is no majority. Otherwise the map will never be finished.

I've also now put "Majorites:" in front of the ethnic groups to make clear what the subject of the map is.

Ok in that case honestly you should just make it back to Azeri because the mixed version is an abomination

[Kyp]

Ok in that case honestly you should just make it back to Azeri because the mixed version is an abomination

Any data on what the actualy majority is in West Azerbaijan? I've read that Kurds make a lot more kids than the Azerbaijani population.

[Dr_Maul]

Any data on what the actualy majority is in West Azerbaijan? I've read that Kurds make a lot more kids than the Azerbaijani population.

Not sure, as you know Iran is bad when it comes to this stuff
In terms of the majority, I know that in terms of raw population there are much more Azeris. Urmia and eastern parts near Tabriz are basically fully Azeri and that is something like 60-70% of the population. However in terms of Geography the entire western half and southern parts are Kurdish villages. So idk how you want to put that in your map. More % of the geography is Kurdish but there are more Azeris overall.
Also, I assume you can't change this, but the province map used for Iran is from 2004 and not the updated version which has changes to Khorasan from 2011-2014.

[PaleoEuropean]

Very nice job. I think you forgot the abkhazians and ossetians in georgia.

The Caucus isn't the middle east though

[RatCat]

The Caucus isn't the middle east though

Some consider it middle-east, some not. Kyp included it in his map so i said it.

[Kyp]

The Caucus isn't the middle east though


Some consider it middle-east, some not. Kyp included it in his map so i said it.

I didn't include it. It was there in the template that's why I filled it out. But the definition of the middle-east sucks anyway. Why Armenia and Azerbaijan are not included in the Middle-East usually? Makes no sense geographically and historically. Just because it doesn't fit the stereotype of a bedouin camel-riding suicide bomber it is not a reason to exclude it from it's own territory (to me at least).

[RatCat]

I didn't include it. It was there in the template that's why I filled it out. But the definition of the middle-east sucks anyway. Why Armenia and Azerbaijan are not included in the Middle-East usually? Makes no sense geographically and historically. Just because it doesn't fit the stereotype of a bedouin camel-riding suicide bomber it is not a reason to exclude it from it's own territory (to me at least).

I think the term middle-east was created mostly on political bases. West asia is a much better term for the region but i have nothing against to both.

[Dr_Maul]

Also you can add Lezgins to northern Azerbaijan

[samario]

What a mess, Levantines are not Arabs.

[Dr_Maul]

What a mess, Levantines are not Arabs.

It's more or less linguistic based.

[Kyp]

What a mess, Levantines are not Arabs.

they are

[dark-mysterio]

What a mess, Levantines are not Arabs.


they are

some are because of tribal arabian ancetry or just have arab ancestor

but it's true than levantine or iraqi/mesopotamian in the map should include area where arameans,phoenicians,assyrians... ancestry are found

[Kyp]

some are because of tribal arabian ancetry or just have arab ancestor

but it's true than levantine or iraqi/mesopotamian in the map should include area where arameans,phoenicians,assyrians... ancestry are found

Yes but then it drifts into speculative data, they are (for the most part) arab by self-definition. Arab is defined by a person who speaks arabic anyway.

[dark-mysterio]

Yes but then it drifts into speculative data, they are (for the most part) arab by self-definition. Arab is defined by a person who speaks arabic anyway.

ok :thumb001:

[Pulsa Dinura]

Arab is defined by a person who speaks arabic anyway.

Are Americans, Australians, Nigerians, Ghanaian, Namibians, Liberians, Jamaicans, Singaporeans ... English because they speak English?

Are Brazilians, Angolans, Cape Verdeans, Mozambicans... Portuguese because they speak Portuguese?

Are Mexicans, Colombians, Argentinians, Peruvians, Venezuelans, Chileans, Ecuadorians, Cubans, Bolivians... Spanish because they speak Spanish?

Are Canadians (Quebec), Belgians, Congolese, Cameroonians, Senegalese, Malagasy... French because they speak French?

[Kyp]

Are Americans, Australians, Nigerians, Ghanaian, Namibians, Liberians, Jamaicans, Singaporeans ... English because they speak English?

Are Brazilians, Angolans, Cape Verdeans, Mozambicans... Portuguese because they speak Portuguese?

Are Mexicans, Colombians, Argentinians, Peruvians, Venezuelans, Chileans, Ecuadorians, Cubans, Bolivians... Spanish because they speak Spanish?

Are Canadians (Quebec), Belgians, Congolese, Cameroonians, Senegalese, Malagasy... French because they speak French?

No none of them refers to themselves as such. While most Northern arabized arabs refer to themselves as Arabs.

Also "Levantine" is not a defined ethnic group. So how should I seperate the arab-speaking world in your opinion?

[Bender1999]

Are Americans, Australians, Nigerians, Ghanaian, Namibians, Liberians, Jamaicans, Singaporeans ... English because they speak English?

Are Brazilians, Angolans, Cape Verdeans, Mozambicans... Portuguese because they speak Portuguese?

Are Mexicans, Colombians, Argentinians, Peruvians, Venezuelans, Chileans, Ecuadorians, Cubans, Bolivians... Spanish because they speak Spanish?

Are Canadians (Quebec), Belgians, Congolese, Cameroonians, Senegalese, Malagasy... French because they speak French?

No.
Your examples are not comparable with this case. It is obvious that every arab nation has own history and specific cultural features. Nevertheless there is a continuity between all these arabs which untites this people to describing them as arab.

[Pulsa Dinura]

Nevertheless there is a continuity between all these arabs which untites this people to describing them as arab.
What is the "continuity" between Somalis, Sudanese, Jordanians, Comorian, Saudis, Mauritanians, Djiboutian, Iraqis, Libyans, Moroccans, Yemenis, Bahreinis?...

[Renekton]

Excellent work man! Can you do another one with Europe?

[Kyp]

Excellent work man! Can you do another one with Europe?

Yes I'm planning to do one, when I find time

[Kyp]

What is the "continuity" between Somalis, Sudanese, Jordanians, Comorian, Saudis, Mauritanians, Djiboutian, Iraqis, Libyans, Moroccans, Yemenis, Bahreinis?...

Most of them speak arabic and define themselves as such. This is the most important thing.

[Dr_Maul]

What is the "continuity" between Somalis, Sudanese, Jordanians, Comorian, Saudis, Mauritanians, Djiboutian, Iraqis, Libyans, Moroccans, Yemenis, Bahreinis?...

I don't know about Somalia or North Africans but most Levantines, Iraqis, Peninsular and Gulf people consider themselves Arab. Pretty much outside of the Horn of Africa and North Africa the majority of Arab speakers consider themselves Arab.

[Bender1999]

What is the "continuity" between Somalis, Sudanese, Jordanians, Comorian, Saudis, Mauritanians, Djiboutian, Iraqis, Libyans, Moroccans, Yemenis, Bahreinis?...

There are a linguistic, cultural and political continuity. First, i don’t want put all arabs in a pigeonhole. Of course all have their own specific background. That there is a difference between Somalis an Syrians is not a secret. „Arabs“ as a people, or lets say for you as „group“ share a big geographical distribution, so they are influenced regarding many factors. But to be honest, the cultural differences between Egyptians, Iraqi Arabs and Gulf arabs are fluxonary. Levant arabs for example are different to them but they are also influenced by others, but nevertheless they describe themselves as arabs.
So if all those countries wouldn’t describe themselve as arabic, there wouldn’t be an arab legue too.

[samario]

Levantines are Arabised people as in some of them speak Arabic but most of them do not descend from Peninsular Arabs (true Arabs). From an ethnic standpoint, this map doesn't make any sense.

This reminds me of Latin Americans, a lot of Latin Americans speak Spanish, Portuguese or French but that doesn't mean we can begin treating Latin American as an ethnicity.

[samario]

There are a linguistic, cultural and political continuity. First, i don’t want put all arabs in a pigeonhole. Of course all have their own specific background. That there is a difference between Somalis an Syrians is not a secret. „Arabs“ as a people, or lets say for you as „group“ share a big geographical distribution, so they are influenced regarding many factors. But to be honest, the cultural differences between Egyptians, Iraqi Arabs and Gulf arabs are fluxonary. Levant arabs for example are different to them but they are also influenced by others, but nevertheless they describe themselves as arabs.
So if all those countries wouldn’t describe themselve as arabic, there wouldn’t be an arab legue too.

Some do, especially Muslims but I know for a fact that a lot of Christian Levantines do not identify as 'Arab' and some of them even speak languages other than Arab (Aramaic, for example).

Copts do not consider themselves as Arab, either.

[vellas]

Levantines are Arabised people as in some of them speak Arabic but most of them do not descend from Peninsular Arabs (true Arabs). From an ethnic standpoint, this map doesn't make any sense.

This reminds me of Latin Americans, a lot of Latin Americans speak Spanish, Portuguese or French but that doesn't mean we can begin treating Latin American as an ethnicity.

Many Levantines are actual Arabs. Usually the dark ones are actual Arabs who came from Islamic caliphates. Original pre-Arab Levantines though look like Jews and they're light. Nowadays, the Levant is a mix of these two.

[vellas]

Israel map is wrong. Not all of the West Bank is Arab. Light yellow = Jewish, Red = Arab.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Zones_A_and_B_in_the_occupied_palestinian_territor ies.svg/1200px-Zones_A_and_B_in_the_occupied_palestinian_territor ies.svg.png

[Hamilcar]

Many Levantines are actual Arabs. Usually the dark ones are actual Arabs who came from Islamic caliphates. Original pre-Arab Levantines though look like Jews and they're light. Nowadays, the Levant is a mix of these two.

https://media.giphy.com/media/4BvHSffsBtRJu/giphy.gif

you made me laugh my old friend haha

Anyway I hope you know many jews have decent amount of european ancestry they are not necessarily representative of ancient levantines who had even less european ancestry than muslim lebanese and palestinians lol

[Badr madani]

Palestine is gone.

[Negah]

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