Baltic German academic sample

[Peterski]

This sample was published as a Baltic German born around Jerwen, Estonia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerwen_County


1897, Kreis Jerwen had a population of 52,673. Of these, 96.7% spoke Estonian, 2.2% German, 0.8% Russian, 0.1% Yiddish and 0.1% Latvian

From Supplementary Info Excel file:

Population: Germans
Language group: Germanic
(...)
Comment: Approximate Germany, actual birthplace Järvamaa [Jerwen]."

Järvamaa - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A4rva_County

https://i.imgur.com/kmv4zyd.png

I uploaded this sample to GEDmatch today - kit number SS4845445

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 22.68
2 Baltic 19.73
3 Atlantic 18.87
4 Eastern_Euro 14.21
5 West_Med 8.67
6 East_Med 6.37
7 West_Asian 5.31
8 Red_Sea 3.92
9 Siberian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.7
2 Austrian 5.18
3 Croatian 5.71
4 East_German 6.27
5 Moldavian 7.54
6 Serbian 8.41
7 South_Polish 8.78
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.11
9 Ukrainian 9.89
10 Polish 10.77
11 Southwest_Finnish 11.64
12 Romanian 12.1
13 Russian_Smolensk 12.75
14 Finnish 12.95
15 South_Dutch 13.62
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.77
17 Southwest_Russian 13.89
18 North_German 14.21
19 West_German 14.37
20 Belorussian 14.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% French @ 3.07
2 67.4% Hungarian + 32.6% Austrian @ 3.12
3 78.3% Croatian + 21.7% North_Dutch @ 3.2
4 78.1% Croatian + 21.9% Danish @ 3.23
5 80.9% Croatian + 19.1% West_Norwegian @ 3.26
6 53.3% Southwest_Russian + 46.7% French @ 3.3
7 78.8% Croatian + 21.2% Norwegian @ 3.31
8 80.5% Croatian + 19.5% West_Scottish @ 3.31
9 81.8% Croatian + 18.2% Orcadian @ 3.33
10 74.9% Croatian + 25.1% North_German @ 3.34
11 75.2% Croatian + 24.8% West_German @ 3.35
12 78% Croatian + 22% Swedish @ 3.36
13 80.2% Croatian + 19.8% Irish @ 3.41
14 91.2% Hungarian + 8.8% Estonian_Polish @ 3.43
15 89.9% Hungarian + 10.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.44
16 79.7% Croatian + 20.3% Southeast_English @ 3.44
17 77% Hungarian + 23% Croatian @ 3.44
18 88.4% Hungarian + 11.6% Polish @ 3.45
19 68.6% Austrian + 31.4% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.46
20 61% Estonian + 39% Tuscan @ 3.48

Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.99
2 North_Atlantic 31.42
3 West_Med 12.2
4 East_Med 10.55
5 West_Asian 6.39
6 Red_Sea 3.89
7 Siberian 1.46
8 South_Asian 0.1
9 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.77
2 Croatian 5.71
3 Austrian 7.39
4 East_German 7.54
5 Moldavian 7.73
6 South_Polish 8.84
7 Serbian 9.37
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.4
9 Ukrainian 10.69
10 Polish 12.3
11 Romanian 13.78
12 Southwest_Russian 14.09
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.58
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.9
15 West_German 15.09
16 Southwest_Finnish 15.24
17 North_Swedish 15.39
18 Estonian_Polish 15.4
19 Belorussian 15.5
20 South_Dutch 16.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.4% Serbian + 37.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.46
2 87.1% Hungarian + 12.9% Belorussian @ 3.03
3 52.6% Romanian + 47.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.06
4 87.3% Hungarian + 12.7% Estonian_Polish @ 3.07
5 87.1% Hungarian + 12.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.1
6 59.3% Estonian + 40.7% Tuscan @ 3.12
7 66.9% Serbian + 33.1% Finnish @ 3.13
8 80.9% Hungarian + 19.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.14
9 86.8% Hungarian + 13.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.14
10 62% Southwest_Finnish + 38% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.14
11 67.7% Southwest_Finnish + 32.3% Central_Greek @ 3.18
12 68.4% Southwest_Finnish + 31.6% East_Sicilian @ 3.19
13 90.9% Hungarian + 9.1% Lithuanian @ 3.2
14 51.9% Southwest_Finnish + 48.1% Bulgarian @ 3.23
15 85.9% Hungarian + 14.1% Polish @ 3.23
16 88% Hungarian + 12% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.23
17 91.3% Hungarian + 8.7% Erzya @ 3.25
18 91.1% Hungarian + 8.9% East_Finnish @ 3.25
19 81.4% Hungarian + 18.6% South_Polish @ 3.27
20 84.5% Hungarian + 15.5% Ukrainian @ 3.28

=====

Similarity Map, Slovaks & Hungarians on top:

https://i.imgur.com/4FwG7b6.png

[JamesBond007]

Interesting that the North_Sea is so low : North_Sea 22.68

It is significant but low for what I would consider a 'Germanic person'. For instance, mine is about 36 or about 40 more or less.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Maybe part Jewish? East med is high for the region.

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.99
2 North_Atlantic 31.42
3 West_Med 12.2
4 East_Med 10.55
5 West_Asian 6.39
6 Red_Sea 3.89
7 Siberian 1.46
8 South_Asian 0.1
9 Amerindian 0.01

[andre]

Maybe she has some jewish admixture which shift south-east her results.

[Peterski]

Maybe she has some jewish admixture which shift south-east her results.

But she also has Eastern European. Weren't Baltic Germans supposed to be "pure" West Germans?

Not a Cop, what do you think - does your grandpa have a match with this person on GEDmatch?

[andre]

But she also has Eastern European. Weren't Baltic Germans supposed to be "pure" West Germans?

Not a Cop, what do you think, does your grandfather have a match with this person on GEDmatch?

I think that she's like 87.5% East German+12.5% Ashkenazi jew

[Peterski]

AJ admixture in JTest is within the norm I think:

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 21.06 Pct
EAST_EURO 15.88 Pct
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 19.93 Pct
ATLANTIC 14.85 Pct
WEST_MED 10.05 Pct
ASHKENAZI 3.85 Pct
EAST_MED 7.27 Pct
WEST_ASIAN 4.91 Pct
MIDDLE_EASTERN 2.07 Pct
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN -
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN -
WEST_AFRICAN 0.12 Pct


I think that she's like 87.5% East German

Baltic Germans are supposed to be Western German genetically, though. Like Volga Germans.

They did not mix with the locals AFAIK.

[Jana]

But she also has Eastern European. Weren't Baltic Germans supposed to be "pure" West Germans?

What?

[Peterski]

What?

Well check for example Not a Cop's 1/2 Baltic German grandparent's results.

It looks like his Baltic German ancestor had to be almost purely West Euro.

[Jana]

Well check for example Not a Cop's 1/2 Baltic German grandparent's results.

It looks like his Baltic German ancestor had to be almost purely West Euro.

Yes, but east Prussians are very mixed and they are Baltic Germans too. Actually even NE Germans from German Baltic coast are not pure Germanic at all.

[Peterski]

Yes, but east Prussians are very mixed and they are Baltic Germans too.

East Prussians are not Baltic Germans.

Baltic Germans = Latvia and Estonia.

[Jana]

East Prussians are not Baltic Germans.

Baltic Germans = Latvia and Estonia.

They are, they lived on Baltic shores. Also Germans from Pommerania-Mecklenburg are Baltic Germans.
If you mean only Germans from Baltic states those should be more pure from what Not a Cop said.

[Peterski]

They are, they lived on Baltic shores. Also Germans from Pommerania-Mecklenburg are Baltic Germans.
If you mean only Germans from Baltic states those should be more pure from what Not a Cop said.

Nobody calls Pomeranian Germans Baltic Germans.

This is the definition of Baltic Germans historically:

https://i.imgur.com/P0OyGSR.png

And the sample we are talking about is from Estonia.

[Benyzero]

Similar results to mine but I have a little more atlantic and west med. This is not a pure german. Idk much sbout Baltic-germans tho

[Lucas]

Yep, those three German samples from Pagani are trash.

Ger1 Germany Ger1 Germans approximate_probably_born_in_Germany
Ger2 Järvamaa Ger2 Germans approximate_germany_actual_birthplace_Järvamaa
Ger3 Sverdlovskoe_oblast Ger3 Germans approximate_germany_actual_birthplace_Sverdlovskoe _oblast

Why Pagani wasn't ashamed to use them in academic paper as German proxy.

[Peterski]

^^^
But you don't have any non-academic Baltic Germans to compare with.

[Leto]

^^^
But you don't have any non-academic Baltic Germans to compare with.
I have a German kit, half Leipzig, Saxony, half Ostpreußen. Can post it in the German Gedmatch thread.

[Peterski]

half Leipzig, Saxony, half Ostpreußen

This is not a Baltic German.

[Leto]

This is not a Baltic German.
Yeah but they have elevated Baltic just how you like it ;)

[Peterski]

Yeah but they have elevated Baltic just how you like it ;)

Uh no... I prefer to find "pure" German samples. But you know that it is hard to find pure ones among these mongrels!

[Leto]

Uh no... I prefer to find "pure" German samples. But you know that it is hard to find pure ones among these mongrels!
That person is fully German (which doesn't mean Germanic).

[Peterski]

I will upload that Sverdlovskoe Oblast German to GEDmatch too.

Edit:

Uploaded - https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?283733-German-GEDmatch-results&p=6878276&viewfull=1#post6878276

[Not a Cop]

But she also has Eastern European. Weren't Baltic Germans supposed to be "pure" West Germans?

Not a Cop, what do you think - does your grandpa have a match with this person on GEDmatch?

No, he doesn't.

[rothaer]

This sample was published as a Baltic German born around Jerwen, Estonia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerwen_County



From Supplementary Info Excel file:

Population: Germans
Language group: Germanic
(...)
Comment: Approximate Germany, actual birthplace Järvamaa [Jerwen]."

Järvamaa - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A4rva_County

https://i.imgur.com/kmv4zyd.png

I uploaded this sample to GEDmatch today - kit number SS4845445

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 22.68
2 Baltic 19.73
3 Atlantic 18.87
4 Eastern_Euro 14.21
5 West_Med 8.67
6 East_Med 6.37
7 West_Asian 5.31
8 Red_Sea 3.92
9 Siberian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.7
2 Austrian 5.18
3 Croatian 5.71
4 East_German 6.27
5 Moldavian 7.54
6 Serbian 8.41
7 South_Polish 8.78
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.11
9 Ukrainian 9.89
10 Polish 10.77
11 Southwest_Finnish 11.64
12 Romanian 12.1
13 Russian_Smolensk 12.75
14 Finnish 12.95
15 South_Dutch 13.62
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.77
17 Southwest_Russian 13.89
18 North_German 14.21
19 West_German 14.37
20 Belorussian 14.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% French @ 3.07
2 67.4% Hungarian + 32.6% Austrian @ 3.12
3 78.3% Croatian + 21.7% North_Dutch @ 3.2
4 78.1% Croatian + 21.9% Danish @ 3.23
5 80.9% Croatian + 19.1% West_Norwegian @ 3.26
6 53.3% Southwest_Russian + 46.7% French @ 3.3
7 78.8% Croatian + 21.2% Norwegian @ 3.31
8 80.5% Croatian + 19.5% West_Scottish @ 3.31
9 81.8% Croatian + 18.2% Orcadian @ 3.33
10 74.9% Croatian + 25.1% North_German @ 3.34
11 75.2% Croatian + 24.8% West_German @ 3.35
12 78% Croatian + 22% Swedish @ 3.36
13 80.2% Croatian + 19.8% Irish @ 3.41
14 91.2% Hungarian + 8.8% Estonian_Polish @ 3.43
15 89.9% Hungarian + 10.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.44
16 79.7% Croatian + 20.3% Southeast_English @ 3.44
17 77% Hungarian + 23% Croatian @ 3.44
18 88.4% Hungarian + 11.6% Polish @ 3.45
19 68.6% Austrian + 31.4% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.46
20 61% Estonian + 39% Tuscan @ 3.48

Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.99
2 North_Atlantic 31.42
3 West_Med 12.2
4 East_Med 10.55
5 West_Asian 6.39
6 Red_Sea 3.89
7 Siberian 1.46
8 South_Asian 0.1
9 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.77
2 Croatian 5.71
3 Austrian 7.39
4 East_German 7.54
5 Moldavian 7.73
6 South_Polish 8.84
7 Serbian 9.37
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.4
9 Ukrainian 10.69
10 Polish 12.3
11 Romanian 13.78
12 Southwest_Russian 14.09
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.58
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.9
15 West_German 15.09
16 Southwest_Finnish 15.24
17 North_Swedish 15.39
18 Estonian_Polish 15.4
19 Belorussian 15.5
20 South_Dutch 16.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.4% Serbian + 37.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.46
2 87.1% Hungarian + 12.9% Belorussian @ 3.03
3 52.6% Romanian + 47.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.06
4 87.3% Hungarian + 12.7% Estonian_Polish @ 3.07
5 87.1% Hungarian + 12.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.1
6 59.3% Estonian + 40.7% Tuscan @ 3.12
7 66.9% Serbian + 33.1% Finnish @ 3.13
8 80.9% Hungarian + 19.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.14
9 86.8% Hungarian + 13.2% Southwest_Russian @ 3.14
10 62% Southwest_Finnish + 38% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.14
11 67.7% Southwest_Finnish + 32.3% Central_Greek @ 3.18
12 68.4% Southwest_Finnish + 31.6% East_Sicilian @ 3.19
13 90.9% Hungarian + 9.1% Lithuanian @ 3.2
14 51.9% Southwest_Finnish + 48.1% Bulgarian @ 3.23
15 85.9% Hungarian + 14.1% Polish @ 3.23
16 88% Hungarian + 12% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.23
17 91.3% Hungarian + 8.7% Erzya @ 3.25
18 91.1% Hungarian + 8.9% East_Finnish @ 3.25
19 81.4% Hungarian + 18.6% South_Polish @ 3.27
20 84.5% Hungarian + 15.5% Ukrainian @ 3.28

=====

Similarity Map, Slovaks & Hungarians on top:

https://i.imgur.com/4FwG7b6.png

An irrelevant outlayer. Unfortunately.