If Turkish were almost no Mongoloid

[princeton90]

Which group would they cluster?

[Kriptc06]

Turkey without turkey would likely be Greek (byzantine)

[Mingle]

Turkey without turkey would likely be Greek (byzantine)
He said without Mongoloid. I'm assuming he's talking only about their genetics, not their ethnic identity.

Since the Turkic conquerors weren't pure Mongoloids, they would still affect the genetics of Turks today since the Caucasoid component of Central Asian Turks is eastern shifted compared to that of native Anatolians. Their Caucasoid component is similar to that of Iranians.

So in the OP's scenario, it would basically be like native Anatolians getting extra Iranic admixture. I'd say that this Anatolian+minor Iranic admixture would cause them to cluster with Kurds.

[Dr_Maul]

Western / Aegean-> Greeks
Balkan-> Macedonian
Central-> Cypriots
Eastern-> Armenians

This is assuming 0% conqueror genes however, not just 0% mongoloid. If it was the conqueror genes minus mongoloid then it would be similar to what Mingle wrote

[Thambi]

probably somewhere between armenians and greeks depending on the region.

[Mingle]

probably somewhere between armenians and greeks depending on the region.

Not really. They would have Central Asian Caucasoid admixture if the Turkish conquerors were somehow purely Caucasoid, and that would shift them towards Iranians.

But a hypothetical Turk that was purely Anatolian with no Central Asian (Caucasoid or Mongoloid) would be something like a Greek shifted Armenian.

[Melki]

He said without Mongoloid. I'm assuming he's talking only about their genetics, not their ethnic identity.

Since the Turkic conquerors weren't pure Mongoloids, they would still affect the genetics of Turks today since the Caucasoid component of Central Asian Turks is eastern shifted compared to that of native Anatolians. Their Caucasoid component is similar to that of Iranians.

So in the OP's scenario, it would basically be like native Anatolians getting extra Iranic admixture. I'd say that this Anatolian+minor Iranic admixture would cause them to cluster with Kurds.

Turkey without turkey...perhaps he was simply referring to the bird

[Kyp]

If Turks had no Turkic DNA:

West: Aegean Greeks/Med islanders (not Mainland Greeks)
Central: Armenians
Balkan: Bulgarians, Macedonians, Greeks etc.
South: in between Cypriots and Levant
Northeast: Laz, Armenians

[Narration]

If Turks had no Turkic DNA:

West: Aegean Greeks/Med islanders (not Mainland Greeks)
Central: Armenians
Balkan: Bulgarians, Macedonians, Greeks etc.
South: in between Cypriots and Levant
Northeast: Laz, Armenians

Seems right but not sure about South, since Levantines have proto-Arabian which Turkish South lacks.

[Kaspias]

When eliminated total amount of conqueror admixture:

Anatolian Turks: Core mix is Greek speakers. Cappadocian Greeks are the base proxy.

Southwest: Aegean Greeks, Med Islanders
Central, South: Cappadocian Greeks, followed by Cypriot and Christian Lebanese.
Northwest: Transitional between Aegean Greeks and Thracian Greeks, slightly more European admixture.
Northeast: Pontic Greeks.
Southeast: Cappadocian Greeks, Kurds and Armenians.

Balkan Turks: Core mix is Slavic speakers. Eastern Bulgarians are the base proxy.

Thrace: Slavic Speakers, Greeks(Sarakatsani)
Northern Bulgaria and Dobruja(Deliorman): Slavic Speakers, Romanians
Macedonia: Slavic Speakers, Aromanians, Greeks

[Kyp]

When eliminated total amount of conqueror admixture:

Anatolian Turks: Core mix is Greek speakers. Cappadocian Greeks are the base proxy.

Southwest: Aegean Greeks, Med Islanders
Central, South: Cappadocian Greeks, followed by Cypriot and Christian Lebanese.
Northwest: Transitional between Aegean Greeks and Thracian Greeks, slightly more European admixture.
Northeast: Pontic Greeks.
Southeast: Cappadocian Greeks, Kurds and Armenians.

Balkan Turks: Core mix is Slavic speakers. Eastern Bulgarians are the base proxy.

Thrace: Slavic Speakers, Greeks(Sarakatsani)
Northern Bulgaria and Dobruja(Deliorman): Slavic Speakers, Romanians
Macedonia: Slavic Speakers, Aromanians, Greeks

Agree with everything except Southeast. I don't think Turks from Southeast have relation with Armenians. Armenian similarity is stronger in Northeast and also Central/East. Southeast would be a mixture of the Southern Turkish (Cappadocian, Levantine) influence and Kurdish.

[Kaspias]

Agree with everything except Southeast. I don't think Turks from Southeast have relation with Armenians. Armenian similarity is stronger in Northeast and also Central/East.

This similarity in NE and Central comes from the shared native heritage of Greek and Armenian speakers, they are close to each other so Turks are close as well. On the other hand, if there is a chance for direct Turkish-Armenian interaction, it is in the Southeast as Armenians were the majority in some parts of this region before Kurds overrun them.

[Kyp]

This similarity in NE and Central comes from the shared native heritage of Greek and Armenian speakers, they are close to each other so Turks are close as well. On the other hand, if there is a chance for direct Turkish-Armenian interaction, it is in the Southeast as Armenians were the majority in some parts of this region before Kurds overrun them.

I viewed it only in a sense of genetic similarity yes.

Distance to: Armenian_West
7.47177355 Turk_East
7.63610503 Turk_East_Black_Sea
13.24211841 Turk_Central_East
13.78737103 Turk_Southeast

Distance to: Armenian_East
5.24030533 Turk_East
5.75940101 Turk_East_Black_Sea
11.92242844 Turk_Central_East
13.01243252 Turk_Southeast


Cities
Distance to: Armenian_West
5.67299744 Turk_Gumushane
7.07446111 Turk_Erzurum
8.06261744 Turk_Erzincan
8.47450294 Turk_Trabzon
8.99997222 Turk_Artvin
9.80488654 Turk_Rize
10.43238707 Turk_Ardahan
10.48812662 Turk_Giresun_South
10.67046859 Turk_Elazig
12.33339369 Turk_Malatya
12.36027912 Turk_Sanliurfa
12.45859543 Turk_Sivas
12.67172837 Turk_Kayseri
12.87744152 Turk_Samsun
12.90097671 Turk_Kilis
13.14536040 Turk_Sinop
13.43377460 Turk_Kars
13.46071692 Turk_Igdir
13.61812395 Turk_Tokat
13.69679160 Turk_Corum
13.77877353 Turk_Nevsehir
14.15227897 Turk_Hatay
14.22339622 Turk_Yozgat
14.38731386 Turk_Gaziantep
14.43658893 Turk_Kahranmaras
14.77208855 Turk_Konya
14.92430903 Turk_Nigde
15.21144964 Turk_Isparta
15.27036673 Turk_Ordu
15.45747069 Turk_Sereflikochisar
15.46816731 Turk_Kastamonu
15.81398116 Turk_Aksaray
15.91694694 Turk_Kirsehir
16.17835591 Turk_Osmaniye
17.25973928 Turk_Afyon
17.77663073 Turk_Karaman
17.81753350 Turk_Adana
17.98839904 Turk_Giresun_North
18.06454539 Turk_Burdur
18.65057104 Turk_Cankiri

Distance to: Armenian_East
3.25067685 Turk_Gumushane
3.51143845 Turk_Erzurum
5.86476769 Turk_Artvin
6.38853661 Turk_Erzincan
6.96473259 Turk_Ardahan
7.03181342 Turk_Trabzon
8.13160501 Turk_Rize
8.48479817 Turk_Giresun_South
9.66336898 Turk_Elazig
10.97494419 Turk_Malatya
11.20770271 Turk_Sivas
11.39510860 Turk_Kayseri
11.68668901 Turk_Samsun
11.69279693 Turk_Sinop
11.79984746 Turk_Kilis
11.91607737 Turk_Kars
11.96431778 Turk_Igdir
12.19108281 Turk_Sanliurfa
12.23377701 Turk_Tokat
12.25986542 Turk_Corum
12.51165856 Turk_Nevsehir
12.81906393 Turk_Yozgat
13.00944657 Turk_Kahranmaras
13.57281106 Turk_Gaziantep
13.57879229 Turk_Hatay
13.60790212 Turk_Nigde
13.67176653 Turk_Konya
14.00297825 Turk_Isparta
14.07147825 Turk_Ordu
14.17059632 Turk_Kastamonu
14.42630237 Turk_Sereflikochisar
14.56301480 Turk_Aksaray
14.59832867 Turk_Kirsehir
14.80676872 Turk_Osmaniye
15.79913922 Turk_Afyon
16.39117140 Turk_Adana
16.57342753 Turk_Giresun_North
16.91696781 Turk_Burdur
16.95366037 Turk_Karaman
17.03674265 Turk_Cankiri

[princeton90]

Seems right but not sure about South, since Levantines have proto-Arabian which Turkish South lacks.

Don’t they have any proto-Arabian?

[Mingle]

When eliminated total amount of conqueror admixture:

Anatolian Turks: Core mix is Greek speakers. Cappadocian Greeks are the base proxy.

Southwest: Aegean Greeks, Med Islanders
Central, South: Cappadocian Greeks, followed by Cypriot and Christian Lebanese.
Northwest: Transitional between Aegean Greeks and Thracian Greeks, slightly more European admixture.
Northeast: Pontic Greeks.
Southeast: Cappadocian Greeks, Kurds and Armenians.

Balkan Turks: Core mix is Slavic speakers. Eastern Bulgarians are the base proxy.

Thrace: Slavic Speakers, Greeks(Sarakatsani)
Northern Bulgaria and Dobruja(Deliorman): Slavic Speakers, Romanians
Macedonia: Slavic Speakers, Aromanians, Greeks

Do you have any Sarakatsani results? Have never seen any before.

[Melki]

The current inhabitants of Turkey would probably be what they were in Roman times, a mix of IE (Armenian, Pontic Greek, Phrygian, Lycian, Cilician, Cimmerian etc...), Semitic (Assyrians...) and Transcaucasian (Kura-Araxes peoples).

Their culture would be strongly hellenized in the west and dominantly Persian in the east. Turkey would maybe be divided in several little states, much like the Balkans or Transcaucasia. It's not hard to imagine a place like Antioch being a former French protectorate like Lebanon.

[Bender1999]

Don’t they have any proto-Arabian?


Even Levantines/Syrians are „just“ partly Arabian regarding Genetics. Pre-Turkic Anatolians were, apart from Greek colonists in Aegean, mostly Anatolian(like a mix of Levantines and Caucasians) with, depending on the region minor steppe influence(from first IE invaders? Greek colonists? Iranics? Proto Armenians?..?). SE-Anatolians were mire southern, western more Med and northern more Caucasian shifted.

Btw very weird question. Turks here turks there. Recently itvwas decided that Turks are Syrians...

[Narration]

Don’t they have any proto-Arabian?

I don’t think so because proto-Arabians had some SSA while Anatolian Turks don’t have any.

[princeton90]

I don’t think so because proto-Arabians had some SSA while Anatolian Turks don’t have any.

How can something “proto” be part Caucasoid and part Negroid? Just asking. Something “proto” is supposed to be racially pure isn’t it?

[altaic]

I viewed it only in a sense of genetic similarity yes.

Distance to: Armenian_West
7.47177355 Turk_East
7.63610503 Turk_East_Black_Sea
13.24211841 Turk_Central_East
13.78737103 Turk_Southeast

Distance to: Armenian_East
5.24030533 Turk_East
5.75940101 Turk_East_Black_Sea
11.92242844 Turk_Central_East
13.01243252 Turk_Southeast


Cities
Distance to: Armenian_West
5.67299744 Turk_Gumushane
7.07446111 Turk_Erzurum
8.06261744 Turk_Erzincan
8.47450294 Turk_Trabzon
8.99997222 Turk_Artvin
9.80488654 Turk_Rize
10.43238707 Turk_Ardahan
10.48812662 Turk_Giresun_South
10.67046859 Turk_Elazig
12.33339369 Turk_Malatya
12.36027912 Turk_Sanliurfa
12.45859543 Turk_Sivas
12.67172837 Turk_Kayseri

Distance to: Armenian_East
3.25067685 Turk_Gumushane
3.51143845 Turk_Erzurum
5.86476769 Turk_Artvin
6.38853661 Turk_Erzincan
6.96473259 Turk_Ardahan
7.03181342 Turk_Trabzon
8.13160501 Turk_Rize
8.48479817 Turk_Giresun_South
9.66336898 Turk_Elazig
10.97494419 Turk_Malatya
11.20770271 Turk_Sivas
11.39510860 Turk_Kayseri


Mostly Central/North East would shift to Armenia but South could shift to Armenia as well. South will likely will be more Kurdish/Iranic I believe.
For my case as a Central East Anatolian, it can be Kurdish/Iranic on some calc, it can be Armenian on some other calc. See below example;

1. %79 Armenian_West + %21 DA59_TianShanSaka @ 1,497426
2. %79 Armenian_West + %21 DA81_TianShanHun @ 1,604093
3. %6 Russian_Tver + %94 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,701592
4. %6 Russian_Smolensk + %94 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,722981
5. %79 Armenian_West + %21 DA47_TianShanSaka @ 1,73762
6. %80 Armenian_West + %20 DA85_TianShanHun @ 1,74357
7. %6 Swedish + %94 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,846904
8. %6 Norwegian + %94 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,89333
9. %6 Russian_Pinega + %94 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,9236
10. %88 Turk_Anatolia_East + %12 Turk_Romania @ 1,988394
11. %7 German + %93 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,993411
12. %5 FIN30 + %95 Turk_Anatolia_East @ 1,993636

Western Turks will shift to Balkan/Greece most likely. I agree with Kyp and Kaspias

[Narration]

How can something “proto” be part Caucasoid and part Negroid? Just asking. Something “proto” is supposed to be racially pure isn’t it?

No it doesn't have to be. Bio-diversity has always existed among humans.