View Full Version : Greek regional Eurogenes k13 averages
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 04:36 PM
Mingle and I collected 165 academic and non-academic Greek Eurogenes k13 results and grouped them into regional averages.
if you have any additional Greek results which could improve these averages feel free to post them.
map of the regions used:
https://i.imgur.com/WFoI3qi.png
PCA of Greeks and neighbouring popualtions
https://i.imgur.com/fiinXsN.png
https://i.imgur.com/HP1Fgr1.png
PCA of Greek regions:
https://i.imgur.com/umV1QDV.png
https://i.imgur.com/KsKm3eb.png
averages:
Greek_West,18.99,16.78,21.25,12.58,26.40,2.23,0.04 ,0.54,0.35,0.30,0.34,0.09,0.04
Greek_Northeast,20.18,16.56,20.31,13.42,24.38,3.47 ,0.20,0.26,0.34,0.53,0.20,0.04,0.10
Greek_Central_Macedonia,19.11,17.60,21.06,12.37,24 .94,2.69,0.39,0.39,0.22,0.58,0.20,0.25,0.21
Greek_West_Macedonia,20.56,15.60,20.43,13.81,24.46 ,3.48,0.14,0.29,0.43,0.49,0.11,0.22,0.00
Greek_Peloponnese,18.65,15.85,20.17,13.49,26.02,3. 42,0.74,0.33,0.33,0.39,0.48,0.11,0.02
Greek_Thessaly,20.88,16.97,20.47,11.67,24.62,3.45, 0.50,0.40,0.37,0.50,0.30,0.04,0.09
Greek_Central,17.81,13.51,20.59,14.66,27.30,4.05,0 .60,0.29,0.33,0.42,0.40,0.03,0.01
Greek_Athens,17.97,13.16,21.25,14.03,27.58,4.02,0. 34,0.50,0.30,0.17,0.25,0.15,0.26
Greek_North_Aegean,14.57,8.12,21.16,16.95,32.41,5. 20,0.62,0.24,0.25,0.07,0.17,0.23,0.02
Greek_Crete,13.22,9.49,20.29,17.33,32.47,5.12,0.27 ,0.24,0.20,0.15,0.60,0.47,0.16
Greek_Cyclades,17.87,9.96,20.68,15.25,28.66,4.63,0 .10,0.57,0.50,0.54,0.53,0.16,0.08
Greek_Ionia,16.28,11.33,20.69,15.75,29.74,4.46,0.0 9,0.62,0.26,0.20,0.36,0.18,0.05
Greek_Dodecanese,12.59,6.27,20.44,18.63,33.75,6.15 ,0.72,0.46,0.28,0.21,0.24,0.17,0.09
individual samples:
Greek_West:Epirus1,21.09,14.32,22.53,12.63,25.68,1 .67,0.23,0,0,1.16,0.41,0.28,0
Greek_West:Epirus2,16.83,17.83,23.92,11.49,27.59,0 .55,0,1.32,0,0.23,0.1,0.14,0
Greek_West:Epirus_Apricity,19.76,17.51,19.73,14.13 ,25.4,1.9,0,0,1.08,0,0.39,0,0.09
Greek_West:Greek_West1,18.13,19.34,18.95,13.94,24. 59,2.79,0,0.58,0.36,0.16,1.01,0,0.15
Greek_West:Greek_West2,16.83,17.83,23.92,11.49,27. 59,0.55,0,1.32,0,0.23,0.1,0.14,0
Greek_West:Ionian_Islands_Lefkada,20.6,11.93,21.04 ,9.4,31.18,3.6,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Greek_West:Aetolia-Acarnania_Valtos,19.69,18.71,18.63,15,22.76,4.57,0 ,0,0.65,0,0,0,0
average:Greek_West,18.99,16.78,21.25,12.58,26.4,2. 23,0.04,0.54,0.35,0.3,0.34,0.09,0.04
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE11,19.1,20.59,19.02,13.38, 25.3,0.88,0.32,0,0.58,0.3,0.53,0,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE126,19.33,14.21,23.63,15.9 5,21.86,3.08,0.54,0,0,1.05,0.15,0,0.19
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE144,23.12,13.53,22.78,13.7 4,21.81,3.33,0.08,0,1.02,0,0,0,0.55
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE162,25.23,14.23,20.12,11.2 6,24.43,3.29,0.65,0.47,0.07,0.22,0,0,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE209,13.74,15.53,25.15,12.6 3,26.08,4.71,0,0.95,0.28,0.86,0.06,0,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE231,20.28,10.9,20.92,17.16 ,25.64,4.18,0,0,0,0.3,0.39,0,0.24
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE252,19.01,12.45,19.64,16.4 1,26.24,4.46,0,0.68,0.48,0.11,0.52,0,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE284,22.14,13.82,20.1,14.35 ,25.97,3.02,0,0,0.19,0.42,0,0,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE34,23.2,21.99,17.64,8.6,21 .71,5.18,0,0,0,1.16,0,0.51,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE59,23.54,17.61,16.42,11.35 ,22.91,5.24,1.04,0,0.73,0.45,0.72,0,0
Greek_Northeast:GreeceNE8,20.43,22.56,19.05,11.25, 21.76,3.55,0,0,0,1.07,0,0,0.31
Greek_Northeast:Thrace,15.93,18.93,19.3,16.36,25.8 4,1.59,0,1.29,0,0.68,0.08,0,0
Greek_Northeast:Eastern Thrace,17.34,18.89,20.2,12.03,27.42,2.63,0,0,1.02, 0.31,0.13,0,0
average:Greek_Northeast,20.18,16.56,20.31,13.42,24 .38,3.47,0.2,0.26,0.34,0.53,0.2,0.04,0.1
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA010,18.95,8.98,21.98, 12.27,34.16,2.92,0,0.24,0,0,0.5,0,0
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA011,13.77,11.5,21.88, 17.99,25.12,7,0,0.58,1.08,0,0.87,0,0.2
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA012,20.64,7.03,19.72, 15.68,30.88,5.93,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.13
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA015,18.61,14.93,24.05 ,9.57,26.54,2.92,0,1.08,0.91,0,0.25,0.26,0.87
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA017,23.56,11,21.22,16 .16,23.95,1.54,0.22,1.42,0.82,0,0.11,0,0
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA018,22.27,9.43,21.69, 11.57,32.11,1.13,0,1.14,0,0.36,0,0.28,0
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA019,17.69,16.97,18.65 ,12.87,25.67,6.78,0.88,0,0,0.32,0.18,0,0
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA020,14.32,19.83,20.77 ,10.7,27.92,5.1,0.37,0,0,0,0,0.34,0.66
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA021,19.1,10.2,21.3,19 .18,23.3,3.38,0,2.14,0,0,0.64,0,0.77
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA023,14.6,18.97,19.8,1 3.32,30.71,0.34,0,0.2,1.48,0.1,0.48,0,0
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA024,18.68,10.4,20.63, 12.52,30.5,4.07,1.59,1.14,0,0,0,0,0.48
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA025,16.76,14.29,22.47 ,13.17,26.99,4.81,0,0,0,1.36,0,0,0.14
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA027,16.77,15.06,23.9, 16.92,21.46,4.49,0,0,0,0,0.9,0.49,0
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA028,17.33,14.56,19.81 ,13.69,28.82,3.81,0,0,0,0,0,1,0.97
Greek_Athens:Greek_Athens_TLA029,16.94,11.44,22.26 ,15.43,25.63,4.75,2.38,0,0.56,0.51,0.1,0,0
Greek_Athens:Athens_Apricity,17.6,15.94,19.85,13.4 8,27.5,5.41,0,0.09,0,0.13,0,0,0
average:Greek_Athens,17.97,13.16,21.25,14.03,27.58 ,4.02,0.34,0.5,0.3,0.17,0.25,0.15,0.26
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP10,13.51,19.28,19.67,13.99,27.03,3.43,0.07,0. 98,0,1,0.36,0.69,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP11,23.72,17.86,18.13,9.96,26.52,1.26,1.44,0,0 ,0,0.38,0.65,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP12,12.2,21.66,19.66,17,22.03,4.31,0,0,0.63,1. 71,0.68,0.12,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP13,21.9,12.64,22.66,16.86,21.24,2.8,0,0.12,0, 0.67,0.57,0.3,0.22
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP14,24.31,13,20.42,7.5,30.81,1.76,0.15,0,0,1.1 7,0.24,0.54,0.1
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP15,22.58,15.87,20.71,15.34,23.09,0,0,0.77,0,0 .88,0,0,0.75
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP16,15.71,17.15,21.24,12.67,26.7,4.48,0,0,0.94 ,0,0,0,1.07
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP17,19.71,21.26,17.97,10.93,25.79,2.37,0,0,0,0 .78,0,0.41,0.75
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP18,18.38,14.96,23.45,9.41,25.97,4.68,2.48,0,0 ,0.66,0,0,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP3,16.13,20.48,23.08,9.83,25.43,2.81,0,0,0.87, 0.76,0.61,0,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP4,18.22,15.16,21.37,11.72,27.48,4.48,0,0.98,0 .43,0.16,0,0,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP5,19.45,16.33,22.41,10.69,26.32,1.41,1.86,1.2 ,0,0.34,0,0,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP8,21.47,19.54,19.5,14.85,21.52,1.96,0,0,0.06, 0.45,0.23,0,0.42
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGR ALPOP9,18.1,19.49,24.06,12.35,22.34,2.17,0,1.48,0, 0,0,0,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Thessaloniki,19.63,20.95,2 0.74,11.76,24.44,0.96,0.16,0.27,0.38,0.71,0,0,0
Greek_Central_Macedonia:Serres,20.66,15.96,21.9,13 .11,22.34,4.13,0,0.41,0.19,0,0.06,1.25,0
average:Greek_Central_Macedonia,19.105,17.599375,2 1.060625,12.373125,24.940625,2.688125,0.385,0.3881 25,0.21875,0.580625,0.195625,0.2475,0.206875
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_West_Macedonia:Florina1,25.5,9.92,22.49,13.2 ,22.79,3.73,0,0.28,0,1.08,0,1.02,0
Greek_West_Macedonia:Florina2,23,13.61,20.68,12.42 ,26.04,3.15,0,0,0.2,0.82,0.07,0,0
Greek_West_Macedonia:Florina3,18.87,14.78,18.68,13 .71,27.49,4.25,0.41,0.59,0.88,0,0,0.32,0
Greek_West_Macedonia:Florina4,14.9,19.48,20.08,15. 2,24.66,5.34,0,0.36,0,0,0,0,0
Greek_West_Macedonia:Florina5,22.82,18.2,18.37,13. 76,23.52,1.53,0,0.49,1.28,0,0,0,0
Greek_West_Macedonia:Ptolemaida,18.28,17.58,22.25, 14.59,22.25,2.85,0.44,0,0.2,1.01,0.56,0,0
average:Greek_West_Macedonia,20.56,15.6,20.43,13.8 1,24.46,3.48,0.14,0.29,0.43,0.49,0.11,0.22,0
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,13.33,7.19,20.67,15.84,3 3.86,5.72,3.22,0,0,0.08,0.1,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,13.89,10.75,21.39,13.99, 33.93,4.35,0,0.47,0.82,0.16,0,0,0.24
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,12.12,11.27,22.78,14.1,3 2.13,6.12,0,0.09,0.38,0,0.44,0.48,0.11
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,15.06,4.65,24.39,16.08,3 3.83,5,0,0.72,0.07,0,0.2,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,11.06,8.97,23.3,17.2,33. 59,5.45,0,0,0,0,0.42,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,17.49,12.83,18.89,15.52, 27.38,6.38,0.8,0,0.17,0.3,0,0.23,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Ikaria,13.33,7.19,20.67,15.84,3 3.86,5.72,3.22,0,0,0.08,0.1,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Samos,20.14,9.36,19.56,13,32.63 ,2.43,1.48,0.37,0,0.35,0.31,0.33,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Samos,17.84,11.16,21.94,14.54,2 8.08,4.41,0.65,0.19,0,0,0.09,1.08,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Chios,9.6,6.31,21.16,20.56,35.3 1,6.06,0,0.99,0,0,0,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Chios,14.81,7.43,20.17,20.11,32 .59,3.47,0,0.76,0,0.08,0,0.57,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Chios,12.39,6.3,21.03,19.95,31. 23,7.15,0,0,1.37,0,0.59,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Chios,16.64,4.26,21.36,20.91,30 .58,5.64,0,0,0.36,0,0.25,0,0
Greek_North_Aegean:Chios,14.9,4.86,20.99,18.75,33. 83,5.74,0,0,0.17,0,0,0.76,0
Greek_North_Aegean:North Aegean,15.95,9.23,19.08,17.79,33.32,4.42,0,0,0.4,0 ,0,0,0
average:Greek_North_Aegean,14.57,8.12,21.16,16.95, 32.41,5.2,0.62,0.24,0.25,0.07,0.17,0.23,0.02
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Crete:Greek_Cretan,12.32,7.05,21.67,18.39,33 .97,4.03,0,0,0.39,0.07,1,1.07,0
Greek_Crete:Crete2,13.66,11.16,18.7,19.27,28.63,6. 96,0.01,0.2,0.22,0.07,0.68,0.44,0
Greek_Crete:Crete3,12.47,9.29,21.21,18.71,31.53,4. 44,0.65,0.5,0.02,0,0.63,0.26,0.27
Greek_Crete:Crete4,8.97,10.94,19.39,18.21,33.84,5. 53,1.95,0.08,0.04,0.01,0.36,0.44,0.25
Greek_Crete:Crete5,12.37,8.93,19.36,18.11,33.61,5. 37,0.71,0,0,0,0,1.39,0.16
Greek_Crete:Crete6,10.29,8.74,21.9,18.39,32.43,6.5 9,1.2,0,0,0,0.39,0.07,0.01
Greek_Crete:Crete7,12.64,4.2,21.63,15.53,36.82,6.7 8,0.1,0.06,0.28,0.22,0.97,0.03,0.74
Greek_Crete:Crete8,13.49,8.67,21.51,15.84,34.01,3. 47,0,0.23,0.03,0.09,1.39,0.02,1.24
Greek_Crete:Crete9,9.06,10.21,20.13,20.41,33.9,5,0 .13,0,0.5,0,0,0.66,0
Greek_Crete:Crete10,12.21,6.68,17.07,20.74,37.37,4 .63,0.03,0,0,0,0.28,0.99,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Preveliana_Irakleioy_B_Crete1DG, 16.71,9.36,19.06,19.85,28.03,4.59,0.23,0,1.73,0.44 ,0,0,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete,12.32,7.05,21.67,18.39,33. 97,4.03,0,0,0.39,0.07,1,1.07,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete0,15.18,11.3,18.9,16.86,31. 72,4.48,0,0,0,0.88,0.68,0,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete1,14.72,8.03,21.45,17.15,32 .4,4.36,0.13,0,0,0.33,1.04,0,0.38
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete2,15.4,13.24,21.63,15.34,30 .96,2.66,0,0,0,0.35,0,0.25,0.18
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete3,15.09,12.86,19.62,13.81,3 1.98,3.98,0,0.84,0.36,0,0.94,0.5,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete4,12.32,7.59,18.79,17.61,33 .9,8.34,0,0,0.07,0,0.62,0.52,0.22
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete5,11.26,11.47,18.65,17.13,3 1.87,6.57,0.45,1.24,0,0.28,0.21,0.87,0
Greek_Crete:Kissamos, Chania, Crete,15.08,12.85,19.61,13.82,32,3.98,0,0.85,0.36, 0,0.95,0.5,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete6,17.89,11.23,23.25,14.84,2 7.92,3.22,0,1.21,0,0,0.43,0,0
Greek_Crete:Greek_Crete7,12.26,8.21,21.32,16.96,33 .67,6.53,0.35,0,0,0.18,0.4,0,0.12
Greek_Crete:Crete_Apricity,15.19,9.68,19.82,15.79, 29.74,7.13,0,0,0,0.27,1.2,1.18,0
average:Greek_Crete,13.22,9.49,20.29,17.33,32.47,5 .12,0.27,0.24,0.2,0.15,0.6,0.47,0.16
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Cyclades:Andros,19.35,10.61,18.08,15.98,28.9 6,4.76,0,0.37,0.54,0.73,0,0.64,0
Greek_Cyclades:Cyclades,16.46,13.03,20.59,13.98,27 .79,3.95,0,1,0.47,0.31,0.42,0,0
Greek_Cyclades:Cyclades,17.94,9.77,23.52,17.74,24. 23,5.08,0.41,0,0,0.31,0.81,0,0.19
Greek_Cyclades:Cyclades,17.73,6.41,20.54,13.29,33. 65,4.71,0,0.89,0.97,0.81,0.88,0,0.12
average:Greek_Cyclades,17.87,9.96,20.68,15.25,28.6 6,4.63,0.1,0.57,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.16,0.08
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr1,18.82,13.49,18.5,14.83, 25.82,3.96,3.12,0.35,0.09,0.54,0.42,0,0.05
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr2,18.32,13.83,23.15,11.7, 25.72,4.92,0.16,0.44,0.29,0.54,0.93,0,0
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr3,15.67,7.52,20.27,20.02, 31.15,4.51,0.24,0,0.01,0.55,0.04,0,0.01
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr4,13.33,12.72,23.04,16.68 ,28.49,3.04,1.74,0.29,0.27,0.4,0.01,0,0
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr5,20.2,17.04,21.23,13.5,2 1.94,3.99,0,0.01,1.46,0.16,0.48,0,0
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr6,20.94,17.11,21.23,12.07 ,24.52,3.23,0,0.01,0,0.02,0.59,0.22,0.06
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr7,17.17,15.23,16.92,17.81 ,29.3,1.96,0.01,0.85,0,0.41,0.28,0.05,0.01
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr8,16.54,9.69,21.12,14.84, 30.76,5.7,0.02,0.56,0,0,0.76,0,0
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr9,21.97,17.62,20.81,10.57 ,23.03,3.46,0.6,0.4,0.02,1.06,0.46,0,0
Greek_Central:GreeceCentr10,15.09,10.84,19.66,14.5 9,32.27,5.76,0.06,0,1.14,0.53,0.05,0,0
average:Greek_Central,17.81,13.51,20.59,14.66,27.3 ,4.05,0.6,0.29,0.33,0.42,0.4,0.03,0.01
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Ionia:GreeceF28k_Phokaia,19.13,15.4,21.94,12 .22,25.79,3.62,0,0.06,0.28,1.26,0.29,0,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceF36k_Phokaia,16.1,13.41,19.25,14 .87,29.5,4.03,0,1.13,0.05,0,1.04,0.62,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceF51k_Phokaia,15.62,10.73,22.02,1 6.06,29.38,4.93,0.43,0.1,0.01,0,0.71,0.01,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceF52k_Phokaia,15.94,11.15,20.72,1 7.45,30.08,2.61,0.26,1.77,0,0.02,0,0,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceF69k_Phokaia,15.54,10.44,21.74,1 5.27,31.33,3.53,0,1.4,0.02,0,0.18,0.01,0.55
Greek_Ionia:GreecePhokaia60,16.25,11.97,19.48,16.2 3,28.94,4.73,0.02,0.26,1.32,0.55,0.24,0,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceSmyrna4,13.31,12.88,19.67,18.18, 28.13,6.21,0,1.4,0,0.07,0,0.16,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceSmyrna9,13.92,10.62,19.81,17.61, 31.95,4.35,0.03,0,1.14,0,0.46,0.12,0
Greek_Ionia:GreeceSmyrna30,18.71,10.42,20.89,17.21 ,26.33,5.41,0.1,0,0,0,0.43,0.48,0.03
Greek_Ionia:GreeceSmyrna58,21.74,11.9,19.77,10.9,3 1.58,2.93,0.17,0.06,0,0.04,0.35,0.56,0
Greek_Ionia:Smyrna,12.86,5.68,22.27,17.2,34.16,6.7 4,0,0.62,0,0.21,0.26,0,0
average:Greek_Ionia,16.28,11.33,20.69,15.75,29.74, 4.46,0.09,0.62,0.26,0.2,0.36,0.18,0.05
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos1,12.03,5.37,21.83,19.13 ,33.1,6.53,0.7,0.4,0.02,0.01,0.44,0.01,0.44
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos2,11.73,4.55,21.4,19.91, 33.03,8,0.03,0.29,0.67,0,0.39,0.01,0
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos4,9.55,7.13,19.52,21.77, 32.32,7.82,1.16,0.68,0,0.01,0.01,0.04,0
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos5,16.11,4.35,18.64,17.6, 36.43,4.61,0.08,1.43,0,0,0.55,0,0.2
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos6,11.79,5.81,21.29,20.38 ,32.04,7.18,0.03,0.13,0.01,1.33,0,0,0
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos7,14.27,6.6,18.1,18.78,3 3.03,7.86,0,0.3,0.13,0.15,0.75,0.01,0.01
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos8,13.17,2.95,20.79,22.25 ,33.3,4.91,0,1.12,0.11,0.12,0,1.28,0
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos9,9.42,7.78,20.55,18.98, 37.32,4.94,0,0.27,0.01,0.7,0.05,0,0
Greek_Dodecanese:GreeceKos10,11.03,5.57,17.8,21.74 ,38.43,3.61,0.93,0,0.12,0.01,0.76,0.01,0.01
Greek_Dodecanese:Karpathos,11.56,4.68,20.18,17.09, 36.68,7.46,0,1.52,0,0.53,0,0.15,0.16
Greek_Dodecanese:Karpathos0,8.47,8.01,21.14,16.98, 32.71,9.23,2.36,0,0.82,0,0,0.27,0
Greek_Dodecanese:Patmos,18.97,8.61,19.37,16.03,30. 27,4.88,1.18,0.14,0.45,0.08,0,0,0
Greek_Dodecanese:Patmos0,13.28,12.76,23.74,15.84,2 8.58,3.67,0,0,1.18,0.17,0.58,0.07,0.12
Greek_Dodecanese:Kalymnos,13.33,7.19,20.67,15.84,3 3.86,5.72,3.22,0,0,0.08,0.1,0,0
Greek_Dodecanese:Symi,14.19,2.63,21.63,17.09,35.08 ,5.84,1.17,0.68,0.64,0,0,0.7,0.34
average:Greek_Dodecanese,12.59,6.27,20.44,18.63,33 .75,6.15,0.72,0.46,0.28,0.21,0.24,0.17,0.09
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop1,18.52,19.84,20.76,1 2.22,25.43,1.89,0.01,0,0.24,0.23,0.82,0.05,0
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop3,20.57,16.23,20.49,1 1.64,24.99,4.01,0,0.02,2,0,0.01,0.04,0.01
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop4,18.61,13.01,20.25,1 3.81,28.65,3.38,0,1.32,0.05,0.91,0,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop5,16.86,17.41,20.81,1 3.68,26.25,2.47,0.05,1.65,0.01,0.07,0.73,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop6,16.9,14.21,15.82,15 .64,24.32,3.34,8.85,0.01,0.01,0.01,0.85,0.01,0.04
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop7,17.28,17.24,18.1,14 .97,27.07,3.84,0.02,0,0,0,0.91,0.58,0
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop8,19.31,15.34,19.19,1 0.34,28.83,5.68,0.01,0.08,0.02,0.01,0.71,0.48,0
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop9,21.97,17.62,20.81,1 0.57,23.03,3.46,0.6,0.4,0.02,1.06,0.46,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:GreecePelop10,19.15,15.38,19.9,1 5.41,23.69,4.76,0.65,0,0,1.02,0,0.01,0
Greek_Peloponnese:Peloponnese,15.58,13.99,22.12,15 .77,28.19,1.71,0.17,0.69,0,1.32,0.33,0,0.13
Greek_Peloponnese:Peloponnese0,17.16,17.35,21.63,1 5.3,25.52,1.8,0,0.2,0,0,0.75,0.3,0
Greek_Peloponnese:Messinia,19,13.51,23.71,14.86,23 .66,3.11,0,0,0.86,0.26,1.04,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:Messinia0,16.49,16.59,21.62,11.6 6,27,4.67,0.12,0.51,0.95,0.14,0.25,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:Messinia_Apricity,21.82,14.78,19 .44,13.26,26.7,3.35,0,0,0,0.64,0,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:Lakonia_Apricity,17.66,17.79,18. 12,14.32,27.04,3.22,0.53,0.37,0.41,0.53,0,0,0
Greek_Peloponnese:Peloponnese1,21.5,13.33,20.02,12 .43,25.96,3.99,0.76,0,0.76,0,0.74,0.32,0.18
average:Greek_Peloponnese,18.65,15.85,20.17,13.49, 26.02,3.42,0.74,0.33,0.33,0.39,0.48,0.11,0.02
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly1,19.03,16.72,20.15,1 1.48,28.84,2.89,0.12,0.78,1.21,0.73,0.28,0.07,0.51
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly2,20.15,16.82,20.54,1 4.15,22.82,2.64,0.05,0.03,1.21,0.73,0.28,0.07,0.51
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly3,22.47,18.39,20.07,6 .41,27.71,3.76,0.01,0.15,0.02,0.72,0.3,0,0
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly4,16.87,18.45,21.06,1 3.61,24.34,4.38,0.03,0,0.41,0.32,0.48,0.05,0
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly5,20.71,15.22,21.47,1 1.24,24.35,2.93,2.58,0,0,1.22,0.19,0.09,0.01
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly6,26.01,16.73,20.86,1 3.02,19.53,1.68,0,1.45,0.08,0.3,0.33,0,0
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly7,18.86,17.78,21.84,1 3.45,21.13,4.6,0.09,1.49,0.02,0.35,0.38,0,0
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly8,24.8,14.97,20.12,11 .9,24.74,3.33,0.02,0,0.02,0,0.04,0.05,0.02
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly9,18.56,14.97,20.71,1 2.58,26.19,5.38,0,0.05,0.66,0.62,0.22,0.06,0
Greek_Thessaly:GreeceThessaly10,18.26,18.69,19.61, 11.69,25.73,3.3,1.62,0.07,0.03,0.31,0.63,0.05,0.01
Greek_Thessaly:Thessaly,23.34,16.97,18.98,11.86,22 .95,3.96,0,0.04,0.81,0.64,0.46,0,0
Greek_Thessaly:Thessaly_Apricity,21.45,17.91,20.21 ,8.61,27.09,2.54,1.47,0.72,0,0,0,0,0
average:Greek_Thessaly,20.88,16.97,20.47,11.67,24. 62,3.45,0.5,0.4,0.37,0.495,0.3,0.04,0.09
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 04:51 PM
before this i though Greeks are much more Slavic.
on a pretty representative sample, the northernmost outliers are still less Baltic then average Macedonian or Bulgarian.
Kaspias
09-15-2020, 04:56 PM
Can you also provide the same components for Dodecad K12b? There is only one Mainlander Greek sample there.
Very good. Obviously Greeks are less "Slavic" than Bulgarians. Though they're still nothing like Turks either (a common misconception).
Can you also provide the same components for Dodecad K12b? There is only one Mainlander Greek sample there.
Yes, I second this.
Chris596
09-15-2020, 05:08 PM
before this i though Greeks are much more Slavic.
on a pretty representative sample, the northernmost outliers are still less Baltic then average Macedonian or Bulgarian.
How can Greeks be ,,Slavic'' ? Seriously. Maybe in the northern part of the country they have significant influence?
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 05:08 PM
Very good. Obviously Greeks are less "Slavic" than Bulgarians. Though they're still nothing like Turks either (a common misconception).
i didn't think they were Slavic on average. but i thought mainland Greece was full of 25% baltic people. and tehre isn't a single one here.
How can Greeks be ,,Slavic'' ? Seriously. Maybe in the northern part of the country they have significant influence?
Yeah. I'm Slavic myself and not Greek but I don't like it when some people (not vbnet) are trying to take away or deny the Hellenic heritage of the Greeks.
Deusex99
09-15-2020, 05:14 PM
You missed Greeks from Cyprus, Trabzon, Central Anatolia,...
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 05:35 PM
How can Greeks be ,,Slavic'' ? Seriously. Maybe in the northern part of the country they have significant influence?
most of Mainland Greece, even Peloponnese, was conquered and settled by Slavs in the 7th century, but they were then supposedly all expelled by the Byzantines, except in the most northern regions.
in the north there were Macedonians and Bulgarians until recently, in 1918-1946 hundreds thousands of them left or were expelled.
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 05:38 PM
Can you also provide the same components for Dodecad K12b? There is only one Mainlander Greek sample there.
most of these are acadmic samples i ran manually trough admixture studio. it's a long and painful process...
i can send you the raw datas if you are interested.
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 05:39 PM
You missed Greeks from Cyprus, Trabzon, Central Anatolia,...
i know, i was focused on Greece. do you have any samples from these regions?
Kaspias
09-15-2020, 05:49 PM
most of these are acadmic samples i ran manually trough admixture studio. it's a long and painful process...
i can send you the raw datas if you are interested.
Yes, please send me, I can handle.
i know, i was focused on Greece. do you have any samples from these regions?
Cyprus and Trabzon already exist, I think.
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 06:05 PM
Cyprus and Trabzon already exist, I think.
many of the current averages are just one or 2-3 samples. some also include outliers, the old Bosniak average included one gypsy, or half gypsy
it would be the best to redo all of them, and share the individual samples in threads like this so it's transparent.
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 06:36 PM
Yes, please send me, I can handle.
sent. GreeceMaced1, 6 and 7, and GreeceSmyrna7 are outiers, the others ore ok.
there are also these on gedmatch, i forgot to mention.
AN9490832 GreeceNE11
EX3288781 GreeceNE126
YP5334141 GreeceNE144
DZ3844219 GreeceNE162
HF9687451 GreeceNE209
QH6696371 GreeceNE231
PK4586743 GreeceNE252
HC8679428 GreeceNE284
ET1384626 GreeceNE34
ER2230325 GreeceNE59
SN4968499 GreeceNE8
PS6603919 Greek_Athens_TLA010
KZ2878484 Greek_Athens_TLA011
TG3224194 Greek_Athens_TLA012
JC7104463 Greek_Athens_TLA015
ND3161611 Greek_Athens_TLA017
XT5766065 Greek_Athens_TLA018
GK2555695 Greek_Athens_TLA019
XX5948829 Greek_Athens_TLA020
JQ3241309 Greek_Athens_TLA021
ZX2481851 Greek_Athens_TLA023
BQ9845365 Greek_Athens_TLA024
MV5678028 Greek_Athens_TLA025
MZ8683214 Greek_Athens_TLA027
CE3055074 Greek_Athens_TLA028
TE8676703 Greek_Athens_TLA029
UD2497954 Greek_Preveliana_Irakleioy_B_Crete1DG
CB4175809 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP10
MF6461382 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP11
ZQ9763942 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP12
FK2990768 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP13
LB4645049 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP14
TL2705417 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15
XE5751468 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP16
WA6074152 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP17
YC9960374 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP18
XG2096127 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP3
ZQ8983256 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP4
ML4823281 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP5
PE2890423 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
ZF5306199 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP9
Kaspias
09-15-2020, 06:42 PM
.
Thank you for informing. I will post when it's done.
What are the samples GreeceF28k, F36k...?
vbnetkhio
09-15-2020, 06:44 PM
Thank you for informing. I will post when it's done.
What are the samples GreeceF28k, F36k...?
i think they are from Foca/Phokaia. their results look like that, and they are in the same dataset as the Phokaia sample.
many of the current averages are just one or 2-3 samples. some also include outliers, the old Bosniak average included one gypsy, or half gypsy
it would be the best to redo all of them, and share the individual samples in threads like this so it's transparent.
Well, Cyprus and Trabzon are not exactly populous places. And why redo something that is already good enough? Not all original references are supposed to be deficient.
vbnetkhio
09-16-2020, 01:12 PM
Well, Cyprus and Trabzon are not exactly populous places. And why redo something that is already good enough? Not all original references are supposed to be deficient.
it's better to check. the Slovenian and Bosniak academic averages seemed "ok", but when i checked the individual samples, there were some obvious outliers.
Tauromachos
09-16-2020, 01:27 PM
before this i though Greeks are much more Slavic.
on a pretty representative sample, the northernmost outliers are still less Baltic then average Macedonian or Bulgarian.
This is what i always keept saying
Tacitus
09-16-2020, 01:58 PM
Vahaduo K13:
Distance to: Greek_Dodecanese
2.08530573 Greek_Chios
3.12848606 Greek_Dodecanese
4.72100625 Greek_Symi_Island
4.86497688 Calabria
6.82948021 Malta
7.31302947 Sicily
7.53615286 Campania
7.93320868 East_Sicilian
8.25201794 Central_Greek
8.77540882 Turk_Cypriot
8.93522803 Sephardic_Jewish
9.23356919 Apulia
9.93931587 Ashkenazi
10.13914691 Algerian_Jewish
10.15640684 Greek_Andros_Island
10.20427361 Molise
10.37279133 Italian_Jewish
10.44966985 Basilicata
11.01125333 Cyprian
11.01125333 Greek_Cypriot
11.04234577 Abruzzo
11.61571780 Greek_Cappadocian
12.01217299 Tunisian_Jewish
12.65244245 Turk_Crete
12.87327076 Libyan_Jewish
Distance to: Greek_Ionia
1.68050588 Central_Greek
3.86400052 East_Sicilian
4.27554675 Greek_Andros_Island
4.40509932 Apulia
4.94682727 Campania
5.11234780 Molise
5.27864566 Sicily
5.72282273 Abruzzo
5.77900510 Basilicata
6.18760858 Malta
6.41412504 Turk_Crete
6.62406220 GR_Peloponese
6.76592196 Greek_Peloponnese
6.90668517 Calabria
6.90749593 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
7.60374908 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
8.11438846 Ashkenazi
8.31217180 West_Sicilian
8.32963385 Greek_Thessaly
8.36583528 Greek_Chios
8.44747891 Greek_Western-Thrace
8.44901769 Greek_Istanbul
9.25185027 GR_Macedonia
9.61108215 Albanian_central_Albania
10.15804238 Greek_Dodecanese
Distance to: Greek_Cyclades
1.64137138 Central_Greek
2.66050747 Apulia
3.24158912 Molise
3.25854262 Greek_Andros_Island
3.47371559 East_Sicilian
3.63019283 Basilicata
3.71568298 Abruzzo
3.79055405 Campania
4.00700636 Sicily
5.64156893 Malta
6.33023696 Greek_Peloponnese
6.48448919 West_Sicilian
6.77342602 Calabria
6.81275825 GR_Peloponese
6.81480741 Turk_Crete
7.35062582 Greek_Western-Thrace
8.10454811 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
8.16471677 Greek_Thessaly
8.58908610 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
8.70402780 Ashkenazi
8.91361318 Greek_Istanbul
9.34690323 Greek_Chios
9.44955555 Marche
9.46950368 Albanian_central_Albania
9.56074265 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
Distance to: Greek_Crete
4.29913945 Greek_Chios
5.36258333 Calabria
5.44041359 Central_Greek
5.74239497 East_Sicilian
6.14106668 Malta
6.16647590 Greek_Dodecanese
6.36379604 Campania
6.41034320 Sicily
7.34813582 Apulia
7.67132322 Greek_Symi_Island
7.67749308 Greek_Andros_Island
8.08830637 Ashkenazi
8.33843510 Molise
8.82853895 Basilicata
9.14912564 Abruzzo
9.46237814 Turk_Crete
9.64381149 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
10.89209805 Sephardic_Jewish
10.98087428 GR_Peloponese
11.18575433 Greek_Istanbul
11.20507028 Algerian_Jewish
11.24479880 Greek_Peloponnese
11.30535271 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
11.34288764 Turk_Cypriot
11.39283986 West_Sicilian
Distance to: Greek_North_Aegean
3.50637990 Calabria
4.39037584 Greek_Chios
4.62232625 Campania
4.67130603 Sicily
4.76137585 Malta
4.79876026 Central_Greek
4.81866164 East_Sicilian
5.57293684 Greek_Dodecanese
5.92913990 Apulia
6.25050398 Greek_Symi_Island
6.93987752 Molise
7.25880844 Greek_Andros_Island
7.46083775 Basilicata
7.79737776 Abruzzo
8.01043694 Ashkenazi
9.66730573 Sephardic_Jewish
9.94202193 West_Sicilian
10.14799488 Turk_Crete
10.34295896 Algerian_Jewish
10.45388445 Italian_Jewish
10.67175243 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
11.20352735 GR_Peloponese
11.22359568 Greek_Peloponnese
11.86120146 Turk_Cypriot
11.91149445 Greek_Istanbul
Distance to: Greek_Athens
3.65841837 GR_Peloponese
3.89984615 Central_Greek
3.90205074 Greek_Peloponnese
4.76276180 Greek_Thessaly
5.05808264 Greek_Andros_Island
5.32147536 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
5.33996255 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.38917433 Apulia
5.52282536 Molise
5.61845174 Abruzzo
5.63471383 East_Sicilian
5.91673052 Turk_Crete
6.03070477 Albanian_central_Albania
6.13801271 Basilicata
6.49539837 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
6.52882838 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
6.71025335 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
6.73305280 Albanian_south_Albania
6.82466361 GR_Macedonia
6.83393737 Albanian_Albania
6.85358300 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.06453112 Campania
7.29590981 Albanian_Montenegro
7.35338018 Sicily
7.53053783 Albanian
Distance to: Greek_Central
3.29205103 GR_Peloponese
3.55294244 Greek_Peloponnese
4.14016908 Central_Greek
4.66592970 Greek_Thessaly
4.80859647 Greek_Andros_Island
5.03500745 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
5.37867084 Turk_Crete
5.58934701 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
5.88238047 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.91438923 Apulia
6.08557310 Albanian_central_Albania
6.08578672 East_Sicilian
6.10627546 Molise
6.18315453 Abruzzo
6.18984652 GR_Macedonia
6.52729653 Basilicata
6.67616656 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
6.68892368 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
6.89263375 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
6.94138315 Albanian_south_Albania
6.98511990 Albanian_Albania
7.22530968 Albanian_Montenegro
7.23592427 Greek_Istanbul
7.43814493 Campania
7.60093415 Albanian
Distance to: Greek_Thessaly
1.84853996 Albanian_Montenegro
2.05961161 Albanian
2.09294052 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
2.25554871 Albanian_Albania
2.28868958 Greek_Thessaly
3.09686939 Albanian_north_Albania
3.10370746 Albanian_south_Albania
3.14614049 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
3.25576412 Albanian_central_Albania
3.46630928 Greek_Central-Macedonia
3.55210718 Kosovo_Albanian
3.59651220 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
3.63560174 Albanian_Kosovo
4.06180379 GR_Peloponese
4.17292463 Greek_Thessaloniki
4.20942989 Albanian_Macedonia
4.52374845 Greek_Western-Macedonia
4.71064751 Turk_Alexandroupoli
4.95441218 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
5.08429936 Turk_Thessaloniki
5.19701838 Greek_Peloponnese
5.32642469 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.46152909 Turk_Kazanlik
5.48895254 Bulgarian_Plovdiv
5.50175427 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
1.52072351 GR_Peloponese
2.09740316 Greek_Thessaly
3.47349968 Greek_Peloponnese
3.60392841 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
3.79865766 Albanian_central_Albania
4.05215580 GR_Macedonia
4.33341667 Albanian_Montenegro
4.45395330 Albanian_Albania
4.49092418 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
4.50386501 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
4.70977706 Albanian_south_Albania
4.82817771 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.90948062 Albanian
5.21309304 Bulgarian_Thrace
5.25213290 Turk_Thessaloniki
5.52943035 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.53253107 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.73994773 Turk_Alexandroupoli
5.96751204 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
6.02628410 Turk_Crete
6.07747196 Kosovo_Albanian
6.09529327 Albanian_north_Albania
6.16460055 Greek_Central-Macedonia
6.16753597 Greek_Western-Macedonia
6.34251527 Turk_Kazanlik
Distance to: Greek_West_Macedonia
2.99821614 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
3.00930224 Greek_Thessaly
3.20574484 Greek_Peloponnese
3.38218864 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
3.51879241 Albanian_Montenegro
3.67929341 Albanian_central_Albania
3.75742265 GR_Peloponese
3.84777858 Albanian
3.90681456 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
3.90723688 Albanian_Albania
4.21030731 Kosovo_Albanian
4.29677786 Greek_Central-Macedonia
4.44616689 Turk_Alexandroupoli
4.62843386 Albanian_south_Albania
4.62869312 Greek_Western-Thrace
4.68688596 Greek_Western-Macedonia
4.76153337 Albanian_Kosovo
5.06612278 Albanian_north_Albania
5.21663685 GR_Macedonia
5.74725152 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
5.85550169 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.90194036 Turk_Thessaloniki
6.02991708 Albanian_Macedonia
6.06616024 Turk_Kazanlik
6.38197045 Bulgarian_Thrace
Distance to: Greek_Central_Macedonia
2.16152724 Greek_Thessaly
2.32493011 Albanian_central_Albania
2.52899189 Albanian_Montenegro
2.62415701 Albanian_Albania
2.63520398 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
2.92364499 Albanian
3.33115596 Greek_Thessaloniki
3.43425392 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
3.63333180 GR_Peloponese
3.74265948 Albanian_south_Albania
4.03399306 Albanian_north_Albania
4.06216281 GR_Macedonia
4.09387347 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.11356929 Bulgarian_Thrace
4.13458583 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
4.50175631 Kosovo_Albanian
4.62272647 Turk_Thessaloniki
4.68058757 Albanian_Kosovo
4.72551584 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
4.93391325 Greek_Peloponnese
4.94802991 Albanian_Macedonia
5.34046814 Greek_Western-Macedonia
5.41104426 Greek_Central-Macedonia
5.86210713 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.91095593 Turk_Kazanlik
Distance to: Greek_Northeast
2.50667110 Greek_Thessaly
2.74310044 Albanian_Montenegro
3.10022580 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
3.13057503 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
3.23210458 Albanian_central_Albania
3.31027189 Albanian
3.33138109 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
3.43709179 Albanian_Albania
3.58372013 GR_Peloponese
3.66323627 Greek_Peloponnese
3.81656170 Kosovo_Albanian
4.13049634 Greek_Central-Macedonia
4.36899302 Albanian_south_Albania
4.37404847 Albanian_Kosovo
4.40755034 Turk_Alexandroupoli
4.40935369 Greek_Western-Macedonia
4.47440126 GR_Macedonia
4.57391517 Albanian_north_Albania
4.82694520 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.10701478 Turk_Thessaloniki
5.15565709 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
5.32960599 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.45077252 Bulgarian_Thrace
5.57340112 Albanian_Macedonia
5.72670935 Turk_Kazanlik
Distance to: Greek_West
2.60388172 Greek_Thessaly
2.97725545 GR_Peloponese
3.25021538 Albanian_central_Albania
3.51397211 Albanian_Albania
3.55004225 Albanian_Montenegro
3.65458616 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
3.81493119 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
3.96505990 Albanian_south_Albania
4.04960492 Albanian
4.13558944 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
4.34092156 Greek_Thessaloniki
4.56219611 GR_Macedonia
4.98687277 Greek_Peloponnese
4.99735930 Turk_Thessaloniki
4.99758301 Bulgarian_Thrace
5.01420981 Albanian_north_Albania
5.07728274 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
5.10870825 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.74723594 Kosovo_Albanian
5.75871513 Albanian_Macedonia
5.86002560 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
5.88459854 Albanian_Kosovo
6.02756999 Greek_Western-Macedonia
6.33796497 Greek_Central-Macedonia
6.65458489 Turk_Alexandroupoli
Distance to: Greek_Ionia
1.68050588 Central_Greek
3.86400052 East_Sicilian
4.27554675 Greek_Andros_Island
4.40509932 Apulia
4.94682727 Campania
5.11234780 Molise
5.27864566 Sicily
5.72282273 Abruzzo
5.77900510 Basilicata
6.18760858 Malta
6.41412504 Turk_Crete
6.62406220 GR_Peloponese
6.76592196 Greek_Peloponnese
6.90668517 Calabria
6.90749593 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
7.60374908 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
8.11438846 Ashkenazi
8.31217180 West_Sicilian
8.32963385 Greek_Thessaly
8.36583528 Greek_Chios
8.44747891 Greek_Western-Thrace
8.44901769 Greek_Istanbul
9.25185027 GR_Macedonia
9.61108215 Albanian_central_Albania
10.15804238 Greek_Dodecanese
Nice work. Did you take in account samples of TA Greeks we have (those that hail from same region)? In Universe' K13 modeling thread are 20-30 of them I think.
before this i though Greeks are much more Slavic.
on a pretty representative sample, the northernmost outliers are still less Baltic then average Macedonian or Bulgarian.
Creoda's PCA of Greek TA members (mainlanders mostly) says the same- huge overlap with Albanians and limited to none with Bulgaro-Macedonians.
https://i.postimg.cc/TwwgdJRW/k13sept15seeuro.png
vbnetkhio
09-16-2020, 02:30 PM
Nice work. Did you take in account samples of TA Greeks we have (those that hail from same region)? In Universe' K13 modeling thread are 20-30 of them I think.
yes. we used only 6 of them which are purely from one region.
Tacitus
09-16-2020, 03:08 PM
The lone Ionian Islands sample is pretty interesting; I've always wanted to see results from there, too bad there was only one.
Ionian_Islands_Lefkada,20.6,11.93,21.04,9.4,31.18, 3.6,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Distance to: Ionian_Islands_Lefkada
5.88286495 Abruzzo
5.95867435 West_Sicilian
6.12673649 Molise
6.96392849 Apulia
7.08185710 Greek_Western-Thrace
7.24073891 Basilicata
7.36830204 GR_Peloponese
7.53148724 East_Sicilian
7.71149143 Central_Greek
7.77865670 Ashkenazi
7.93775157 Greek_Andros_Island
7.95189914 Albanian_south_Albania
7.97957392 Greek_Thessaly
8.06318175 Campania
8.41619273 Marche
8.74773685 Vlach_Central-Macedonia
8.81955214 Lazio
9.04236142 Sicily
9.05863676 Malta
9.09919777 Albanian_Albania
9.10184597 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
9.24768620 Romagna
9.49423509 Umbria
9.63126679 Greek_Peloponnese
9.76650398 Albanian_Montenegro
Target: Ionian_Islands_Lefkada
Distance: 1.6729% / 1.67287201
28.6 Italian_Jewish
21.4 Swiss_Italian
13.6 Lebanese_Druze
12.6 Pomak_Xanthi
9.0 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
5.8 Greek_Northern-Thrace
5.4 Lombardy
3.6 Sardinian
Rgvgjhvv
09-16-2020, 03:23 PM
Honestly this is pretty accurate!
My results using new 'average' samples:
Distance to: Markos
3.95018987 Greek_Ionia
4.25076464 Greek_Cyclades
5.47555477 Greek_Peloponnese
6.23034509 Greek_West
7.02398747 Turk_Crete
7.16479588 Greek_West_Macedonia
7.47285755 Greek_North_Aegean
7.56716592 Greek_Northeast
7.57274059 Greek_Central_Macedonia
7.68231736 Greek_Crete
Target: Markos
Distance: 1.9613% / 1.96134278
46.6 Greek_North_Aegean
30.8 Albanian_south_Albania
17.6 Greek_West
3.6 Balkan_Gypsy
1.4 Turk_Thessaloniki
Target: Markos
Distance: 2.2214% / 2.22142077
44.4 Greek_North_Aegean
43.2 Greek_West
4.6 Albanian_north_Albania
4.2 Balkan_Gypsy
3.6 Turk_Kazanlik
I only used reference populations that were confirmed/plausible in my ancestry. Fit seems nice!
Father's side: Samos (N. Aegean) + Roma/S.Asian
Mother's side: Elis (W.Peloponnese) + Arkadia (C.Peloponnese) + Arvanite + Turk/N. Greek
*My mother's ancestry is harder to discern. She has high Red_Sea component and I have no idea why. Calcs always want to include something along the lines of Algerian_Jewish or even distant Egyptian.
For example:
Target: MarkosMom
Distance: 1.7165% / 1.71647002
49.6 Turk_Thessaloniki
18.6 Algerian_Jewish
16.2 Albanian_Macedonia
15.6 Albanian_north_Albania
arget: MarkosMom
Distance: 1.8036% / 1.80358363
51.6 Turk_Thessaloniki
29.8 Albanian_north_Albania
18.0 Algerian_Jewish
0.6 Egyptian
Target: MarkosMom
Distance: 2.1060% / 2.10603904
46.6 Turk_Thessaloniki
26.4 Greek_Thessaly
14.8 Algerian_Jewish
11.0 Greek_West
1.2 Algerian
Tauromachos
09-16-2020, 04:32 PM
The lone Ionian Islands sample is pretty interesting; I've always wanted to see results from there, too bad there was only one.
Ionian Islanders are very close to Italy as expected
Tacitus
09-16-2020, 11:45 PM
Ionian Islanders are very close to Italy as expected
Kinda hard to make such a conclusion based on one sample, but it is interesting nevertheless that it's more "western" shifted than the other Greek samples.
Tauromachos
09-16-2020, 11:49 PM
Kinda hard to make such a conclusion based on one sample, but it is interesting nevertheless that it's more "western" shifted than the other Greek samples.
Ionian Islands is bar far the most Italian like region of Greece if all aspects are considered including culture
JohnnyP
09-16-2020, 11:56 PM
90% of Macedonian k13 results are not included here and they are already posted on thread about Macedonian results , i understood already that here everyone shows results how they want and make a selection how they will present these pca's,i recommended to people who doing this things to contact me ,i can give them atleast 100 k13 coordinates of Macedonians with region name, even these references on k13 are wrong for Macedonians and some are writen wrongly(like ethnicity or region, like ***** = Vlach Highlander North Macedonia,or i think about Macedonian_East is Macedonian from Skopje),all looks like one big joke.
20 k13 results of Macedonians pca.
https://i.imgur.com/kFH2wWQ.jpg
Tacitus
09-17-2020, 12:02 AM
PCAs with new samples.
Greeks:
https://i.imgur.com/6YxoCLy.png
Greeks and southern Italians:
https://i.imgur.com/KYzevbt.png
Greeks, Albanians, Italians, and European Jews:
https://i.imgur.com/U5sbOzW.png
A couple thoughts:
-The position of Ionian Greeks and the Cyclades is interesting as I thought they would plot further south than they do, although I suppose where the Cyclades plot makes sense in that they are geographically the closest islands to the mainland.
-In that vein, there is a cline in Greece similar to that of Italy in that it looks more like a gradual slope rather than a sharp break between the mainland and the islands, with some groups forming a bridge between the two.
-Southern Italians, with the notable exceptions of the West Sicilian and Calabrian samples are in an intermediate position between mainlanders and most islanders. The Calabria sample is closer other islanders. I recall the PCA from Sarno et al 2017 being similar; southern Italians were SW of mainland Greeks and west/NW of Greek islanders.
-Does anyone know why Greeks from the Anatolian coast plot so much further north compared to Cappadocian Greeks?
Tauromachos
09-17-2020, 12:16 AM
-Does anyone know why Greeks from the Anatolian coast plot so much further north compared to Cappadocian Greeks?
Greeks from the Anatolian coast are pretty much like Aegean Islands
Their best proxy would be Greeks from the nearby Islands Chios,Samos.Mytiline
Well you will have some diversity among them there will be more southshifted ones and more northshifted.
The more southernshifted will be close to South Aegean and Cyprus
FinalFlash
09-17-2020, 12:18 AM
I've got some Trepizond Greek kits for you guys if you're interested.
T002825DEL
T541543
T770570
T760702DEL
M844814
M221047
T487882
H801546
M320386
YE1111338
T224706
KA8924046
T540825
T508879DEL
QD9777746
LH3362124
QQ9451853DEL
MU8018749DEL
QK2972780DEL
M050351
The ones with "DEL" I marked because it showed that they've supposedly been deleted from Gedmatch's database.
Also, if you guys have any Cappadocian Greek kits would you mind sharing? Thanks.
Rgvgjhvv
09-17-2020, 12:28 AM
-Does anyone know why Greeks from the Anatolian coast plot so much further north compared to Cappadocian Greeks?
Greeks from Smyrna are a good proxy for 'in-between' Mainland Greece and the Greek Islands as the history of its settlement is a mix of both. Unlike Cappadocian Greeks, who are natives to the region.
Tauromachos
09-17-2020, 12:38 AM
most of Mainland Greece, even Peloponnese, was conquered and settled by Slavs in the 7th century, but they were then supposedly all expelled by the Byzantines, except in the most northern regions.
in the north there were Macedonians and Bulgarians until recently, in 1918-1946 hundreds thousands of them left or were expelled.
The issue is simple
There is no question that some Slavic settlement or assimilation in Mainland Greece took place
But the Slavic impact and influence is usually much much overestimated by alot of posters in this forum
Either on intend or by prejudices and misconceptions they have about Greece its history and the modern
Greek ethnos
Deusex99
09-17-2020, 06:15 AM
West Sicily is a weird sample. It has both high WHG and high North African/Red Sea. Calabria sample is quite outlying. Calabrians usually plot near other S. Italians like in Sarno et al. 2017. Campanians as well. They actually plot North of other S. Italians in the studies who checked the ancestry and the birthplace of the samples (De Gaetano et al 2012 and Sazzini et al 2016).
vbnetkhio
09-17-2020, 11:40 AM
90% of Macedonian k13 results are not included here and they are already posted on thread about Macedonian results ,
sorry, it would take me 5 hours to sort them all into vahaduo format.
this was a "study" focused on Greeks, i think the vahaduo averages are good enough to represent Macedonians, they aren't too far from the truth, at least.
i understood already that here everyone shows results how they want and make a selection how they will present these pca's,i recommended to people who doing this things to contact me ,i can give them atleast 100 k13 coordinates of Macedonians with region name, even these references on k13 are wrong for Macedonians and some are writen wrongly(like ethnicity or region, like ***** = Vlach Highlander North Macedonia,or i think about Macedonian_East is Macedonian from Skopje),all looks like one big joke.
20 k13 results of Macedonians pca.
https://i.imgur.com/kFH2wWQ.jpg
you can send them to me on PM, that would be great.
vbnetkhio
09-17-2020, 11:55 AM
Kinda hard to make such a conclusion based on one sample, but it is interesting nevertheless that it's more "western" shifted than the other Greek samples.
Ionian Islanders are very close to Italy as expected
if you look at the first PCA in my first post here, there are Greek individuals who can pass as pure Italians in all parts of Greece.
Mainland Greeks on average are like a Slavic admixed version of central Italians, with some individuals still being like pure central Italians.
and Greek Islanders are transitional between South Italy and Anatolia, again, with some individuals being like pure South Italians.
here is a part of that PCA zoomed in:
https://i.imgur.com/5k40JsA.png
if I had used Italian individuals instead of avearages, the overlap would be even greater. but i don't have a collection of Italian individual results yet.
paradox
09-17-2020, 02:29 PM
90% of Macedonian k13 results are not included here and they are already posted on thread about Macedonian results , i understood already that here everyone shows results how they want and make a selection how they will present these pca's,i recommended to people who doing this things to contact me ,i can give them atleast 100 k13 coordinates of Macedonians with region name, even these references on k13 are wrong for Macedonians and some are writen wrongly(like ethnicity or region, like ***** = Vlach Highlander North Macedonia,or i think about Macedonian_East is Macedonian from Skopje),all looks like one big joke.
20 k13 results of Macedonians pca.
https://i.imgur.com/kFH2wWQ.jpg
I agree with you 100%.
Tauromachos
09-17-2020, 02:40 PM
if you look at the first PCA in my first post here, there are Greek individuals who can pass as pure Italians in all parts of Greece.
Mainland Greeks on average are like a Slavic admixed version of central Italians, with some individuals still being like pure central Italians.
and Greek Islanders are transitional between South Italy and Anatolia, again, with some individuals being like pure South Italians.
Mainland Greeks are in between Central and South Italians rather than close to Central Italians only
More southshifted Mainland Greeks are closer to South Italy even Sicily in some cases
Mingle
09-17-2020, 02:46 PM
I've got some Trepizond Greek kits for you guys if you're interested.
T002825DEL
T541543
T770570
T760702DEL
M844814
M221047
T487882
H801546
M320386
YE1111338
T224706
KA8924046
T540825
T508879DEL
QD9777746
LH3362124
QQ9451853DEL
MU8018749DEL
QK2972780DEL
M050351
The ones with "DEL" I marked because it showed that they've supposedly been deleted from Gedmatch's database.
Also, if you guys have any Cappadocian Greek kits would you mind sharing? Thanks.
Cappadocian Greek from Nigde: M239907
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.36
2 West_Asian 27.44
3 West_Med 20.97
4 North_Atlantic 6.37
5 Red_Sea 5.71
6 Baltic 5.18
7 Siberian 0.39
8 Oceanian 0.36
9 East_Asian 0.15
10 South_Asian 0.07
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 9.62
2 Turkish 10.88
3 Lebanese_Muslim 11.49
4 Assyrian 12.81
5 Armenian 13.54
6 Georgian_Jewish 13.65
7 Syrian 13.75
8 South_Italian 14.18
9 Central_Greek 14.95
10 Kurdish_Jewish 15.06
11 East_Sicilian 15.41
12 Sephardic_Jewish 15.77
13 Iranian_Jewish 15.88
14 Azeri 16.46
15 Algerian_Jewish 16.57
16 Lebanese_Christian 16.68
17 Tunisian_Jewish 16.84
18 Samaritan 16.88
19 Italian_Jewish 17.19
20 Ashkenazi 17.54
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.3% Georgian_Jewish + 24.7% Sardinian @ 3.05
2 74.9% Cyprian + 25.1% Balkar @ 4.05
3 76% Cyprian + 24% Ossetian @ 4.07
4 75.9% Cyprian + 24.1% Kabardin @ 4.18
5 76.7% Cyprian + 23.3% North_Ossetian @ 4.23
6 75% Cyprian + 25% Adygei @ 4.27
7 62.9% Algerian_Jewish + 37.1% Abhkasian @ 4.47
8 78% Cyprian + 22% Chechen @ 4.7
9 75.1% Cyprian + 24.9% Georgian @ 4.72
10 51.3% Armenian + 48.7% South_Italian @ 4.75
11 61.4% Algerian_Jewish + 38.6% Georgian @ 4.83
12 77.3% Assyrian + 22.7% Sardinian @ 4.83
13 73.6% Cyprian + 26.4% Kumyk @ 4.89
14 52.8% Armenian + 47.2% Central_Greek @ 4.92
15 53.6% Armenian + 46.4% East_Sicilian @ 4.95
16 51.1% Georgian_Jewish + 48.9% South_Italian @ 5.01
17 76.7% Cyprian + 23.3% Abhkasian @ 5.05
18 79.2% Cyprian + 20.8% Lezgin @ 5.28
19 76.4% Armenian + 23.6% Sardinian @ 5.3
20 80.3% Cyprian + 19.7% Tabassaran @ 5.31
Pontic Greek from Giresun: M064800
Admix Results (sorted):
# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 39.16
2 East_Med 35.66
3 West_Med 14.72
4 Red_Sea 3.51
5 North_Atlantic 2.62
6 Baltic 2.19
7 Oceanian 1.01
8 East_Asian 0.66
9 Siberian 0.45
10 South_Asian 0.04
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Armenian 4.09
2 Georgian_Jewish 7.11
3 Assyrian 9.01
4 Turkish 11.8
5 Kurdish 12.03
6 Kurdish_Jewish 12.74
7 Azeri 12.88
8 Iranian_Jewish 13.65
9 Iranian 15.04
10 Lebanese_Muslim 16.3
11 Georgian 17.17
12 Abhkasian 17.97
13 Cyprian 18.24
14 Syrian 18.74
15 Kumyk 20.06
16 Lebanese_Druze 20.34
17 Lebanese_Christian 20.62
18 Adygei 21.08
19 Balkar 22.15
20 Samaritan 22.32
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.2% Armenian + 1.8% Sardinian @ 3.98
2 95.8% Armenian + 4.2% Cyprian @ 4.01
3 97.2% Armenian + 2.8% Central_Greek @ 4.02
4 98.1% Armenian + 1.9% Bulgarian @ 4.02
5 97.4% Armenian + 2.6% South_Italian @ 4.03
6 98% Armenian + 2% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.04
7 98.5% Armenian + 1.5% Romanian @ 4.05
8 97.9% Armenian + 2.1% East_Sicilian @ 4.05
9 98.2% Armenian + 1.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 4.05
10 98.2% Armenian + 1.8% Ashkenazi @ 4.06
11 98.1% Armenian + 1.9% Italian_Jewish @ 4.06
12 98.8% Armenian + 1.2% Serbian @ 4.06
13 98.9% Armenian + 1.1% Moldavian @ 4.06
14 98.4% Armenian + 1.6% West_Sicilian @ 4.06
15 99.1% Armenian + 0.9% Ukrainian @ 4.06
16 98.6% Armenian + 1.4% Tuscan @ 4.06
17 99% Armenian + 1% Croatian @ 4.06
18 98.2% Armenian + 1.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.06
19 99.2% Armenian + 0.8% Southwest_Russian @ 4.06
20 98.9% Armenian + 1.1% North_Italian @ 4.06
How big was the impact of Pontic/Anatolian migration to Greece in the 1920s? I mean there might be many young people today in Mainland Greece with one or two such grandparents.
vbnetkhio
09-17-2020, 03:13 PM
How big was the impact of Pontic/Anatolian migration to Greece in the 1920s? I mean there might be many young people today in Mainland Greece with one or two such grandparents.
among the academic samples, there are 3 probable half-Pontics from Athens, 1 from Smyrna, 2 from Macedonia, and one full Pontic from Macedonia.
maybe that's representative?
among the academic samples, there are 3 probable half-Pontics from Athens, 1 from Smyrna, 2 from Macedonia, and one full Pontic from Macedonia.
maybe that's representative?
Well, I'd say they shouldn't be removed because they are Greeks too and that migration happened almost a century ago.
Rgvgjhvv
09-17-2020, 03:31 PM
How big was the impact of Pontic/Anatolian migration to Greece in the 1920s? I mean there might be many young people today in Mainland Greece with one or two such grandparents.
Most Greeks from Pontus settled in Makedonia. There are still many many families who haven't "mixed" (not the correct term, but you know what I mean) as they founded their own villages. Hundreds of thousands.
As for Greeks from the Constantinople and Smyrna areas, they brought influences of Greco-Anatolian culture to the current borders of Greece, but genetically they are the same as everyone else.
Cappadocian Greek impact is very small.
bained
09-18-2020, 12:51 AM
Awesome job! Here one more greek from Patras - Velimachi,18.58,15.11,21.99,9.03,29.75,3.24,1.29,0 ,0,0.10,0.56,0.35,0
JohnnyP
09-18-2020, 09:34 AM
sorry, it would take me 5 hours to sort them all into vahaduo format.
this was a "study" focused on Greeks, i think the vahaduo averages are good enough to represent Macedonians, they aren't too far from the truth, at least.
you can send them to me on PM, that would be great.
I disagree with this , even on mine(ph2ter's) pca you can see, nothing in common with ur's pca, these results are far from truth but okay like you said this is thread for Greeks.
I will send you in PM, when you have time do that.
vbnetkhio
09-18-2020, 11:18 AM
I disagree with this , even on mine(ph2ter's) pca you can see, nothing in common with ur's pca, these results are far from truth but okay like you said this is thread for Greeks.
I will send you in PM, when you have time do that.
so you don't have the results in horizonal format? (e.g. sample_name,23,25,20,10,.... etc.)
btw, ph2ter's thingy is a t-sne, not a PCA. it works very differently, and it's basically useless for showing genetic admixture, imo.
vbnetkhio
10-07-2020, 05:44 PM
I disagree with this , even on mine(ph2ter's) pca you can see, nothing in common with ur's pca, these results are far from truth but okay like you said this is thread for Greeks.
I will send you in PM, when you have time do that.
here it is with the new Macedonian and Bulgarian samples:
https://i.imgur.com/tqwuNEk.png
it's still very similar.
vbnetkhio
10-07-2020, 05:49 PM
--
JohnnyP
10-10-2020, 03:03 PM
here it is with the new Macedonian and Bulgarian samples:
https://i.imgur.com/tqwuNEk.png
it's still very similar.
Nice,Its looks like more than half cluster of Macedonians plots with Mainland Greece and one common part where Bulgarians,Macedonians and Mainland Greeks (probably North Greeks) clustering.
I would like to see Vlach Aromanian cluster because from mine 10 regional averages on K13 there are 8 which Vlach Aromanian is first or second closest, also Vlachs from Macedonia.
My paint point of view :D
https://i.imgur.com/x2bbfJ5.png
vbnetkhio
10-10-2020, 03:16 PM
Nice,Its looks like more than half cluster of Macedonians plots with Mainland Greece and one common part where Bulgarians,Macedonians and Mainland Greeks (probably North Greeks) clustering.
I would like to see Vlach Aromanian cluster because from mine 10 regional averages on K13 there are 8 which Vlach Aromanian is first or second closest, also Vlachs from Macedonia.
My paint point of view :D
https://i.imgur.com/x2bbfJ5.png
aromanians added:
https://i.imgur.com/wk9cdYt.png
peloponnesian
11-21-2020, 12:57 PM
Distance to: pelop
3.82939943 Greek_West
4.37908666 Greek_Peloponnese
4.95946570 Greek_Central_Macedonia
5.57332935 Greek_Central
5.58152309 Greek_Athens
5.91356069 Greek_Thessaly
6.03957780 Greek_Northeast
6.48168188 Greek_West_Macedonia
7.72692047 Greek_Ionia
8.53241466 Greek_Cyclades
11.39146610 Greek_Crete
11.88385039 Greek_North_Aegean
15.14971287 Greek_Dodecanese
And my K13 results:
Population
North_Atlantic 17.45 Pct
Baltic 17.25 Pct
West_Med 19.77 Pct
West_Asian 11.55 Pct
East_Med 29.2 Pct
Red_Sea 2.61 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.87 Pct
Amerindian 0.48 Pct
Oceanian 0.82 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Dorian
11-21-2020, 01:54 PM
Distance to: pelop
3.82939943 Greek_West
4.37908666 Greek_Peloponnese
4.95946570 Greek_Central_Macedonia
5.57332935 Greek_Central
5.58152309 Greek_Athens
5.91356069 Greek_Thessaly
6.03957780 Greek_Northeast
6.48168188 Greek_West_Macedonia
7.72692047 Greek_Ionia
8.53241466 Greek_Cyclades
11.39146610 Greek_Crete
11.88385039 Greek_North_Aegean
15.14971287 Greek_Dodecanese
And my K13 results:
Population
North_Atlantic 17.45 Pct
Baltic 17.25 Pct
West_Med 19.77 Pct
West_Asian 11.55 Pct
East_Med 29.2 Pct
Red_Sea 2.61 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.87 Pct
Amerindian 0.48 Pct
Oceanian 0.82 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Kalos irthes file , apo poies perioxes tis peloponnisou eisai?
peloponnesian
11-21-2020, 02:39 PM
Kalos irthes file , apo poies perioxes tis peloponnisou eisai?
Hi. Mother from Argolis, father from Laconia. I have a grandmother from Smyrna.
peloponnesian
11-21-2020, 02:42 PM
Kalos irthes file , apo poies perioxes tis peloponnisou eisai?
Hi. Mother from Argolis, father from Laconia. I have a grandmother from Smyrna.
xripkan
11-26-2020, 11:37 AM
Distance to: pelop
3.82939943 Greek_West
4.37908666 Greek_Peloponnese
4.95946570 Greek_Central_Macedonia
5.57332935 Greek_Central
5.58152309 Greek_Athens
5.91356069 Greek_Thessaly
6.03957780 Greek_Northeast
6.48168188 Greek_West_Macedonia
7.72692047 Greek_Ionia
8.53241466 Greek_Cyclades
11.39146610 Greek_Crete
11.88385039 Greek_North_Aegean
15.14971287 Greek_Dodecanese
And my K13 results:
Population
North_Atlantic 17.45 Pct
Baltic 17.25 Pct
West_Med 19.77 Pct
West_Asian 11.55 Pct
East_Med 29.2 Pct
Red_Sea 2.61 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.87 Pct
Amerindian 0.48 Pct
Oceanian 0.82 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Interesting results! You have high East Med but Baltic as well. Which is your haplogroup? If you don't know you can use this site to find out
https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal
peloponnesian
04-07-2021, 10:23 AM
Mingle and I collected 165 academic and non-academic Greek Eurogenes k13 results and grouped them into regional averages.
if you have any additional Greek results which could improve these averages feel free to post them.
Hello! What do you know about the GreeceNE samples? Are they self-reported for being from that area (Macedonia-Thrace)? My mother has a close-ish genealogical match with one of them on GEDMATCH and it's weird because she's not aware of any Macedonian or Thracian ancestry. If you know which company they tested with, that would also be appreciated. Thanks
peloponnesian
04-07-2021, 10:29 AM
Interesting results! You have high East Med but Baltic as well. Which is your haplogroup? If you don't know you can use this site to find out
https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal
Oh I just saw that, sorry. G-L91.
Kaspias
04-07-2021, 12:09 PM
Hello! What do you know about the GreeceNE samples? Are they self-reported for being from that area (Macedonia-Thrace)? My mother has a close-ish genealogical match with one of them on GEDMATCH and it's weird because she's not aware of any Macedonian or Thracian ancestry. If you know which company they tested with, that would also be appreciated. Thanks
They are from an article, besides no further information is stated we had commented the tag NE as Northeastern in the past. This later confirmed with arriving of Thracian Greek samples from Plovdiv in another article, they also have had very similar results to the GreeceNE in terms of averages even though they are not homogenous.
Thracian Greeks as a whole seem to be a mixed community that absorbed Bulgarian-like individuals into their community as well as recently(100-150 years?) arrived colonizers from Southern Greece and Islands. The median group which is also reflected in terms of averages seems to be mixes of Southern Greeks and Bulgarians with a slight shift to Anatolians. In this sense, it is not wrong to say the Greek ethnic group in Thrace was a melting pot that includes individuals from different genetic backgrounds rather than an organic group. Eventually, the average made there comes closer to Thessalians, for example, but that's a coincidence. And in your mother's case, the individual might have originated from somewhere else in Greece.
vbnetkhio
04-07-2021, 02:18 PM
They are from an article, besides no further information is stated we had commented the tag NE as Northeastern in the past. This later confirmed with arriving of Thracian Greek samples from Plovdiv in another article, they also have had very similar results to the GreeceNE in terms of averages even though they are not homogenous.
Thracian Greeks as a whole seem to be a mixed community that absorbed Bulgarian-like individuals into their community as well as recently(100-150 years?) arrived colonizers from Southern Greece and Islands. The median group which is also reflected in terms of averages seems to be mixes of Southern Greeks and Bulgarians with a slight shift to Anatolians. In this sense, it is not wrong to say the Greek ethnic group in Thrace was a melting pot that includes individuals from different genetic backgrounds rather than an organic group. Eventually, the average made there comes closer to Thessalians, for example, but that's a coincidence. And in your mother's case, the individual might have originated from somewhere else in Greece.
But did you notice that they are labeled as Central Macedonian Greeks in G25? I guess Davidski got the info from the authors.
Their results agree with this too. The Thracian Greek results you posted are more West Asian shifted, and these "NE" samples are even less West Asian than some Macedonian Greek samples. This was bothering me for a while.
I would recalcuate the averages, unless you disagree.
Kaspias
04-07-2021, 02:27 PM
But did you notice that they are labeled as Central Macedonian Greeks in G25? I guess Davidski got the info from the authors.
Their results agree with this too. The Thracian Greek results you posted are more West Asian shifted, and these "NE" samples are even less West Asian than some Macedonian Greek samples. This was bothering me for a while.
I would recalcuate the averages, unless you disagree.
It was some members from Anthrogenica who asked Davidski to relabel samples according to where they plot. These GreeceNE samples distributed to all over Greek components in G25, from Peloponnese to Macedonia. Many Balkan Turks who are mixed with autochthon Greeks of Thrace models better with Peloponnese samples in G25, for example.
I think too, it is more healthy if we find actual Greeks from the region.
vbnetkhio
04-07-2021, 03:02 PM
It was some members from Anthrogenica who asked Davidski to relabel samples according to where they plot. These GreeceNE samples distributed to all over Greek components in G25, from Peloponnese to Macedonia. Many Balkan Turks who are mixed with autochthon Greeks of Thrace models better with Peloponnese samples in G25, for example.
I think too, it is more healthy if we find actual Greeks from the region.
here's one for the collection
user bigsnake94 from Eupedia
My folks migrated to the Western Thrace region from the Eastern Thrace region of Turkey during the Great Population Exchange of 1922. They only moved about 15 km to the other side of the Evros/Maritsa River.
Population
North_Atlantic 19.45
Baltic 19.80
West_Med 19.27
West_Asian 15.01
East_Med 22.41
Red_Sea 0.88
South_Asian 0.67
East_Asian 0.51
Siberian 0.33
Amerindian 0.28
Oceanian 0.28
Northeast_African 0.54
Sub-Saharan 0.57
vbnetkhio
04-08-2021, 07:12 PM
It was some members from Anthrogenica who asked Davidski to relabel samples according to where they plot. These GreeceNE samples distributed to all over Greek components in G25, from Peloponnese to Macedonia. Many Balkan Turks who are mixed with autochthon Greeks of Thrace models better with Peloponnese samples in G25, for example.
I think too, it is more healthy if we find actual Greeks from the region.
I noticed something interesting:
https://i.imgur.com/h85u24g.png
Both East Rumelia and Greek_NE have samples which are outlying from Macedonian Greeks. One group because of too much East med and West asian, and the other because of too much Baltic.
Macedonian Greeks are from 2 separate academic sets, both from Thessaloniki probably.
Kaspias
04-08-2021, 08:35 PM
I noticed something interesting:
https://i.imgur.com/h85u24g.png
Both East Rumelia and Greek_NE have samples which are outlying from Macedonian Greeks. One group because of too much East med and West asian, and the other because of too much Baltic.
Macedonian Greeks are from 2 separate academic sets, both from Thessaloniki probably.
I also rechecked both samples and the article, could not find further information in the supplementary (https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.cub.2019.09.076/attachment/e86db030-7ed2-438a-a653-5719df8d50c1/mmc2.xlsx). However, since all Greek samples labeled according to regions, NE being Northeastern is very likely.
To me they seem to be how they should be, the GreeceNE samples plotted downwards might be Eastern Thracians while the ones in the upwards are Bulgarian-like individuals. I run these in Dodecad K12b, if you don't mind, and posting all stuff so you can evaluate, too.
https://i.ibb.co/sV5F3bL/PCA.png
https://i.ibb.co/k51pypZ/rumlar.png
https://i.ibb.co/SdY6F0L/PLOT.png
vbnetkhio
04-08-2021, 08:47 PM
I also rechecked both samples and the article, could not find further information in the supplementary (https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.cub.2019.09.076/attachment/e86db030-7ed2-438a-a653-5719df8d50c1/mmc2.xlsx). However, since all Greek samples labeled according to regions, NE being Northeastern is very likely.
To me they seem to be how they should be, the GreeceNE samples plotted downwards might be Eastern Thracians while the ones in the upwards are Bulgarian-like individuals. I run these in Dodecad K12b, if you don't mind, and posting all stuff so you can evaluate, too.
https://i.ibb.co/sV5F3bL/PCA.png
https://i.ibb.co/k51pypZ/rumlar.png
https://i.ibb.co/SdY6F0L/PLOT.png
these GreeceMaced are much more Slavic than the Thessaloniki samples.
GreeceMaced2,19.34,24.91,17.65,13.91,20.42,1.85,0, 0.01,1.68,0.03,0,0.01,0.19
GreeceMaced3,21.57,19.62,17.77,14.14,22.53,2.52,0. 13,0.28,1.25,0.01,0.19,0,0
GreeceMaced4,16.45,24.84,19.74,10.52,25.15,1.99,1. 1,0.08,0.01,0,0.13,0,0
GreeceMaced8,20.94,22.28,20.07,12.01,20.41,0.57,1. 03,0.97,0.93,0.03,0.74,0,0.01
average,19.575,22.9125,18.8075,12.645,22.1275,1.73 25,0.565,0.335,0.9675,0.0175,0.265,0.0025,0.05
Do you think these could be native Greeks from Florina or Serres?
I didn't include them in the average because they are otliers from other Macedonian Greeks and they could in fact be Macedonians or Bulgarians.
Kaspias
04-08-2021, 08:54 PM
these GreeceMaced are much more Slavic than the Thessaloniki samples.
GreeceMaced2,19.34,24.91,17.65,13.91,20.42,1.85,0, 0.01,1.68,0.03,0,0.01,0.19
GreeceMaced3,21.57,19.62,17.77,14.14,22.53,2.52,0. 13,0.28,1.25,0.01,0.19,0,0
GreeceMaced4,16.45,24.84,19.74,10.52,25.15,1.99,1. 1,0.08,0.01,0,0.13,0,0
GreeceMaced8,20.94,22.28,20.07,12.01,20.41,0.57,1. 03,0.97,0.93,0.03,0.74,0,0.01
average,19.575,22.9125,18.8075,12.645,22.1275,1.73 25,0.565,0.335,0.9675,0.0175,0.265,0.0025,0.05
Do you think these could be native Greeks from Florina or Serres?
I didn't include them in the average because they could actually be Macedonians or Bulgarians.
Greeks I have seen who self-reported their ancestry from Mountainous parts of Macedonia were more like GreeceMaced rather than Thessaloniki ones. This made me think that Thessaloniki ones actually could be from Greeks from Chalkidiki. So my vote would be to add both under separate labels as it is now.
See that map, which I believe very accurate, and you will understand the point.
https://i.ibb.co/Mkp1Xwn/0o0rn-TVW9-H6a-Xpu-A-TRQGEi-Gacr-4qip53-Lk51wg-DPY.jpg
vbnetkhio
04-28-2021, 09:33 PM
Greeks I have seen who self-reported their ancestry from Mountainous parts of Macedonia were more like GreeceMaced rather than Thessaloniki ones.
could you post some of these results?
catgeorge
04-28-2021, 09:52 PM
Greeks I have seen who self-reported their ancestry from Mountainous parts of Macedonia were more like GreeceMaced rather than Thessaloniki ones. This made me think that Thessaloniki ones actually could be from Greeks from Chalkidiki. So my vote would be to add both under separate labels as it is now.
See that map, which I believe very accurate, and you will understand the point.
https://i.ibb.co/Mkp1Xwn/0o0rn-TVW9-H6a-Xpu-A-TRQGEi-Gacr-4qip53-Lk51wg-DPY.jpg
Typical ridiculous Turk posting propaganda maps that has absolute no relevance to facts.
GalenStark
04-28-2021, 09:53 PM
There is a Turk from Chalkidiki who's family were sent to Turkey with the population exchange who was added to yfull under basal R-M458*. Pretty interesting. His ancestor is likely a local Balkan assimilee/convert. However, he claims the ancestor arrived to Greece with the Ottomans.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M458*/
xripkan
04-28-2021, 10:07 PM
They are from an article, besides no further information is stated we had commented the tag NE as Northeastern in the past. This later confirmed with arriving of Thracian Greek samples from Plovdiv in another article, they also have had very similar results to the GreeceNE in terms of averages even though they are not homogenous.
Thracian Greeks as a whole seem to be a mixed community that absorbed Bulgarian-like individuals into their community as well as recently(100-150 years?) arrived colonizers from Southern Greece and Islands. The median group which is also reflected in terms of averages seems to be mixes of Southern Greeks and Bulgarians with a slight shift to Anatolians. In this sense, it is not wrong to say the Greek ethnic group in Thrace was a melting pot that includes individuals from different genetic backgrounds rather than an organic group. Eventually, the average made there comes closer to Thessalians, for example, but that's a coincidence. And in your mother's case, the individual might have originated from somewhere else in Greece.
Target: christos
Distance: 0.8725% / 0.87254029 | R2P
71.4 Greek_Peloponnese
28.6 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
Indeed, Eastern Thrace plots a bit more southern than Greek Macedonians. As I have mentioned, I am 3/4 Peloponnesian and 1/4 Thessalian, so updated K13 seems extremely accurate for me!
Kaspias
04-28-2021, 11:16 PM
could you post some of these results?
https://i.ibb.co/HtpXJ2X/makedonyarumlar.png
Central_Macedonia_1,7.16,0,0.1,0.41,27.49,32.75,0, 0,5.18,0,26.91,0
Central_Macedonia_2,6.42,0,0,0.3,27.93,30.93,1.13, 0,7.07,0,26.13,0.09
Central_Macedonia_3,6.48,0.26,0.27,0.14,28.33,30.8 ,0,0,5.79,0,27.92,0
Central_Macedonia_4,6.7,0,0,0,28.54,29.47,0,0,5.94 ,0.32,29.02,0
Central_Macedonia_5,5.15,0,0,0,28.22,29.18,0,0,5.2 2,0.78,31.45,0
Central_Macedonia_6,3.74,0,0,0,29.38,29.81,0.13,0, 8.08,0,28.86,0
Central_Macedonia_7,6,0,0,0,29.34,29.39,0,0,8.37,0 .72,26.15,0
Central_Macedonia_8,5.92,0,0,0,28.97,28.65,0,0,7.3 3,0.28,28.85,0
Central_Macedonia_9,3.49,0,0.78,0,28.73,30.24,0.61 ,0,8.45,0.89,26.81,0
Central_Macedonia_10,4.16,0.8,0.19,0,30.16,28.01,0 .38,0,7.19,0.38,28.72,0
Central_Macedonia_11,5.51,0.53,1.39,0,28.49,28.05, 0.39,0,7.79,0,27.85,0
Central_Macedonia_12,7.18,0.35,0.85,0,28.93,27.36, 1.18,0,8.19,0,25.95,0
Central_Macedonia_13,4.23,0.53,1.19,0,27.75,28.94, 0,0,8.04,0.19,29.13,0
Central_Macedonia_14,4.46,1.85,2.88,0,27.37,28.83, 0,0,5.73,0,28.86,0
Central_Macedonia_15,6.13,0,0,0,29.55,27.25,0,0,8. 3,0,28.77,0
Central_Macedonia_16,4.41,0,1.32,1.2,27,29.02,0.11 ,0,7.07,0,29.86,0
Central_Macedonia_17,2.99,0.78,0.11,0,29.59,31.59, 0,0,7.15,0.85,26.95,0
Central_Macedonia_18,4.8,0,0.2,0,31.11,29.2,0,0,5. 92,0.45,28.34,0
Central_Macedonia_19,3.2,0.7,0.79,0,27.5,30.19,0.6 ,0,7.87,0,29.15,0
Central_Macedonia_20,4.88,0,0.42,0,28.87,29.4,0.46 ,0,7.21,0,29.76,0
Central_Macedonia_21,4.41,0,1.32,1.2,27,29.02,0.11 ,0,7.07,0,29.86,0
Central_Macedonia_22,5.65,0,0,0,27.67,30.33,0,0,7. 65,0.84,27.85,0
Central_Macedonia_23,6.82,0.83,1.19,0,27.44,27.09, 0.22,0,7.79,0,28.6,0
Central_Macedonia_24,6.32,0.45,0,0,26.43,32.02,0.2 6,0,8.42,0,26.1,0
Central_Macedonia_25,7.09,0,0.61,0.17,26.35,34.64, 0,0.06,5.7,0.19,25.18,0
Central_Macedonia_26,6.83,0.41,2.23,0.46,27.41,27. 22,0,0,6.83,0,28.57,0
Central_Macedonia_27,5.95,0.35,0.46,0.42,27.17,31. 12,0,0,8.49,0,26.02,0
Central_Macedonia_28,2.76,0.75,0.5,0,28.83,28.61,0 ,0,8.76,0,29.76,0
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Macedonia,5.32,0.31,0.60,0.15,28.27,29.61,0. 20,0.00,7.24,0.21,28.12,0.00
Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
1.75883484 Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
1.76618232 Macedonian_Vardar
1.82548624 Macedonian_South
1.94617574 Macedonian_East
2.39703984 Macedonian_Polog
2.76987364 Greek_Macedonia
2.98494556 Albanian_Kosovo
3.49862830 Bulgarian_East
3.99801201 Moldovan_Gagauz
4.36067655 Bulgarian_Central
4.94772675 Bulgarian_West
5.06928003 Bulgarian_Thrace
5.19929803 Pomak_Bulgaria
5.21098839 Greek_Thessaly
5.49627146 Turk_Makedonya
5.84124131 Greek_Thrace
5.93139107 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.98549079 Moldovan_South
6.06245000 Romanian
6.32111541 Pomak_Greece
6.75206635 Albanian
7.91148532 Montenegrin
8.35899515 Turk_Deliorman
8.78281276 Greek_Peloponnese
9.25901723 Italian_Friuli_VG
https://i.ibb.co/GCd5N9S/pca.png
Kaspias
04-28-2021, 11:19 PM
There is a Turk from Chalkidiki who's family were sent to Turkey with the population exchange who was added to yfull under basal R-M458*. Pretty interesting. His ancestor is likely a local Balkan assimilee/convert. However, he claims the ancestor arrived to Greece with the Ottomans.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-M458*/
Do you have his Gedmatch or any contact address? I can try to get some more information regarding his background.
xripkan
04-28-2021, 11:24 PM
https://i.ibb.co/HtpXJ2X/makedonyarumlar.png
Central_Macedonia_1,7.16,0,0.1,0.41,27.49,32.75,0, 0,5.18,0,26.91,0
Central_Macedonia_2,6.42,0,0,0.3,27.93,30.93,1.13, 0,7.07,0,26.13,0.09
Central_Macedonia_3,6.48,0.26,0.27,0.14,28.33,30.8 ,0,0,5.79,0,27.92,0
Central_Macedonia_4,6.7,0,0,0,28.54,29.47,0,0,5.94 ,0.32,29.02,0
Central_Macedonia_5,5.15,0,0,0,28.22,29.18,0,0,5.2 2,0.78,31.45,0
Central_Macedonia_6,3.74,0,0,0,29.38,29.81,0.13,0, 8.08,0,28.86,0
Central_Macedonia_7,6,0,0,0,29.34,29.39,0,0,8.37,0 .72,26.15,0
Central_Macedonia_8,5.92,0,0,0,28.97,28.65,0,0,7.3 3,0.28,28.85,0
Central_Macedonia_9,3.49,0,0.78,0,28.73,30.24,0.61 ,0,8.45,0.89,26.81,0
Central_Macedonia_10,4.16,0.8,0.19,0,30.16,28.01,0 .38,0,7.19,0.38,28.72,0
Central_Macedonia_11,5.51,0.53,1.39,0,28.49,28.05, 0.39,0,7.79,0,27.85,0
Central_Macedonia_12,7.18,0.35,0.85,0,28.93,27.36, 1.18,0,8.19,0,25.95,0
Central_Macedonia_13,4.23,0.53,1.19,0,27.75,28.94, 0,0,8.04,0.19,29.13,0
Central_Macedonia_14,4.46,1.85,2.88,0,27.37,28.83, 0,0,5.73,0,28.86,0
Central_Macedonia_15,6.13,0,0,0,29.55,27.25,0,0,8. 3,0,28.77,0
Central_Macedonia_16,4.41,0,1.32,1.2,27,29.02,0.11 ,0,7.07,0,29.86,0
Central_Macedonia_17,2.99,0.78,0.11,0,29.59,31.59, 0,0,7.15,0.85,26.95,0
Central_Macedonia_18,4.8,0,0.2,0,31.11,29.2,0,0,5. 92,0.45,28.34,0
Central_Macedonia_19,3.2,0.7,0.79,0,27.5,30.19,0.6 ,0,7.87,0,29.15,0
Central_Macedonia_20,4.88,0,0.42,0,28.87,29.4,0.46 ,0,7.21,0,29.76,0
Central_Macedonia_21,4.41,0,1.32,1.2,27,29.02,0.11 ,0,7.07,0,29.86,0
Central_Macedonia_22,5.65,0,0,0,27.67,30.33,0,0,7. 65,0.84,27.85,0
Central_Macedonia_23,6.82,0.83,1.19,0,27.44,27.09, 0.22,0,7.79,0,28.6,0
Central_Macedonia_24,6.32,0.45,0,0,26.43,32.02,0.2 6,0,8.42,0,26.1,0
Central_Macedonia_25,7.09,0,0.61,0.17,26.35,34.64, 0,0.06,5.7,0.19,25.18,0
Central_Macedonia_26,6.83,0.41,2.23,0.46,27.41,27. 22,0,0,6.83,0,28.57,0
Central_Macedonia_27,5.95,0.35,0.46,0.42,27.17,31. 12,0,0,8.49,0,26.02,0
Central_Macedonia_28,2.76,0.75,0.5,0,28.83,28.61,0 ,0,8.76,0,29.76,0
,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Macedonia,5.32,0.31,0.60,0.15,28.27,29.61,0. 20,0.00,7.24,0.21,28.12,0.00
Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
1.75883484 Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
1.76618232 Macedonian_Vardar
1.82548624 Macedonian_South
1.94617574 Macedonian_East
2.39703984 Macedonian_Polog
2.76987364 Greek_Macedonia
2.98494556 Albanian_Kosovo
3.49862830 Bulgarian_East
3.99801201 Moldovan_Gagauz
4.36067655 Bulgarian_Central
4.94772675 Bulgarian_West
5.06928003 Bulgarian_Thrace
5.19929803 Pomak_Bulgaria
5.21098839 Greek_Thessaly
5.49627146 Turk_Makedonya
5.84124131 Greek_Thrace
5.93139107 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.98549079 Moldovan_South
6.06245000 Romanian
6.32111541 Pomak_Greece
6.75206635 Albanian
7.91148532 Montenegrin
8.35899515 Turk_Deliorman
8.78281276 Greek_Peloponnese
9.25901723 Italian_Friuli_VG
Are these just random individuals and they are not included at the updated Gedmatch averages? If so could you post their Eurogenes K13?
Kaspias
04-28-2021, 11:53 PM
Are these just random individuals and they are not included at the updated Gedmatch averages? If so could you post their Eurogenes K13?
They were not included in any averages. I had their kits but I just wrote their results.
Please note that these samples do not include individuals who reported their ancestry from "Thessaloniki" but from the inner parts of Macedonia. Greeks from Thessaloniki, or let's say Chalkidiki, have origin from Euboia, therefore plot more Southern.
https://i.ibb.co/7yMg5gp/makedonyarumlar-k13.png
Central_Macedonia_1,19.48,25.74,20.8,13.95,18.17,0 .25,0.08,0.84,0,0.2,0.19,0,0.29
Central_Macedonia_2,19.88,23.62,20.33,12.3,18.78,2 .71,2.29,0.09,0,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_3,19.19,24.73,21.57,13.99,18.85, 0.41,0,0,0,0,1.17,0,0.07
Central_Macedonia_4,20.52,21.91,21.89,13.18,21.18, 0,0,0,0.26,0,1.07,0,0
Central_Macedonia_5,20.67,20.88,21.07,15.12,19.01, 1.73,0,0.16,0,0.54,0.64,0.18,0
Central_Macedonia_6,22.24,20.66,19.34,8.35,27.64,0 ,0.87,0,0.16,0,0.75,0,0
Central_Macedonia_7,22.34,19.41,20.15,11.7,21.94,2 .82,0,0,1.02,0.4,0.17,0,0
Central_Macedonia_8,18.83,22.05,20.7,10.78,25.14,1 .64,0,0.72,0.11,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_9,20.44,22.67,20.44,9.79,22.46,2 .49,0,0.87,0,0,0.54,0.29,0
Central_Macedonia_10,21.44,20.87,22.46,8.94,21.43, 2.4,0.15,0.49,0.51,0.72,0.59,0,0
Central_Macedonia_11,23.27,19.01,18.95,11.12,21.64 ,4.14,0.61,0,0,0.73,0.53,0,0
Central_Macedonia_12,22.82,17.76,19.55,13.6,19.18, 4.09,2.22,0,0,0.3,0.29,0,0.18
Central_Macedonia_13,21.86,20.02,19.51,10.39,24.41 ,2.36,0.35,0,0.58,0,0.52,0,0
Central_Macedonia_14,24.62,19.33,19.69,10.52,21.35 ,1.44,0,1.14,1.54,0,0.32,0,0
Central_Macedonia_15,19.61,20.81,20.07,10.58,26.19 ,2.24,0,0,0.32,0.19,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_16,21.98,19.73,18.84,13.55,22.08 ,2.17,0,0.76,0.11,0.74,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_17,22.22,24.57,20.32,7.87,20.71, 2.45,0,0.66,1.2,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_18,24.03,19.19,21.79,10.22,23.71 ,0,0,0.28,0,0.12,0.63,0,0
Central_Macedonia_19,24.36,21.3,19.08,8.64,23.37,1 .98,0,0.24,0.45,0.21,0.37,0,0
Central_Macedonia_20,22.84,19.84,20.09,11.45,23.2, 1.87,0.09,0.25,0,0.37,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_21,21.98,19.73,18.84,13.55,22.08 ,2.17,0,0.76,0.11,0.74,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_22,18.66,22.14,22.77,11.7,20.8,2 .2,0.98,0.28,0.3,0,0.17,0,0
Central_Macedonia_23,24.08,18.48,18.21,11.4,22.87, 3.22,0.35,0.24,0.88,0,0,0.25,0
Central_Macedonia_24,22.21,22.71,16.99,10.79,23.08 ,2.1,1.35,0,0.45,0,0.32,0,0
Central_Macedonia_25,23.07,25.46,17.02,13.79,18.22 ,1.28,0.44,0.22,0,0,0,0.36,0.09
Central_Macedonia_26,22.82,18.2,18.37,13.76,23.52, 1.53,0,0.49,1.28,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_27,19.12,24.19,21.22,12.82,17.07 ,4.08,0,0.4,0.72,0,0,0,0.39
Central_Macedonia_28,19.83,21.21,23.95,11.68,19.8, 2.61,0,0,0.92,0,0,0,0
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Macedonia,21.59,21.29,20.14,11.63,21.71,2.01 ,0.35,0.32,0.39,0.19,0.30,0.04,0.04
Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
0.90470990 Macedonian
0.98757278 Macedonian_South
1.68656456 Macedonian_North
2.10266498 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
3.58533123 Bulgaria_Southcentral
3.58646065 Bulgaria_Southeastern
3.86305579 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
3.87302208 Albanian_Gheg
4.17025179 Bulgaria_Northeastern
4.33922804 Bulgaria_average
4.58183369 Greek_Northern-Thrace
4.64815017 Bulgaria_Northcentral
4.67536095 Albanian
4.87636135 Torbesh_average
4.89220809 Bulgaria_Southwestern
5.21241787 Romania_Muntenia
5.47206771 Greek_Thessaly
5.50358974 Romania_Wallachia
5.56545596 Pomak_Bulgaria
5.58540061 Greek_Central_Macedonia
5.63821780 Romania_Dobruja
5.74255170 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.90978849 Turk_Makedonya
6.08377350 Greek_Northeast
6.24828777 Romania_Oltenia
GalenStark
04-29-2021, 12:17 AM
Do you have his Gedmatch or any contact address? I can try to get some more information regarding his background.
I don't have a gedmatfh unfortunately. I can email him through yfull and ask. I have actually found a way to email users in different haplos before. If you have yfull. Highlight, copy the user ID without the "YF" portion. Start a personal message and plug in the numerical portion of the ID, write your message and send. It should work. If you have any difficulty let me know and I can try.
Kaspias
04-29-2021, 12:27 AM
I don't have a gedmatfh unfortunately. I can email him through yfull and ask. I have actually found a way to email users in different haplos before. If you have yfull. Highlight, copy the user ID without the "YF" portion. Start a personal message and plug in the numerical portion of the ID, write your message and send. It should work. If you have any difficulty let me know and I can try.
It worked, thanks.
GalenStark
04-29-2021, 12:30 AM
It worked, thanks.
Anytime! Shame that Yfull doesn't mention this neat feature. Unless it's not supposed to exist and I stumbled on it by accident. Been emailing different haplogroups for the past week lmao
xripkan
04-29-2021, 12:47 AM
They were not included in any averages. I had their kits but I just wrote their results.
Please note that these samples do not include individuals who reported their ancestry from "Thessaloniki" but from the inner parts of Macedonia. Greeks from Thessaloniki, or let's say Chalkidiki, have origin from Euboia, therefore plot more Southern.
https://i.ibb.co/7yMg5gp/makedonyarumlar-k13.png
Central_Macedonia_1,19.48,25.74,20.8,13.95,18.17,0 .25,0.08,0.84,0,0.2,0.19,0,0.29
Central_Macedonia_2,19.88,23.62,20.33,12.3,18.78,2 .71,2.29,0.09,0,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_3,19.19,24.73,21.57,13.99,18.85, 0.41,0,0,0,0,1.17,0,0.07
Central_Macedonia_4,20.52,21.91,21.89,13.18,21.18, 0,0,0,0.26,0,1.07,0,0
Central_Macedonia_5,20.67,20.88,21.07,15.12,19.01, 1.73,0,0.16,0,0.54,0.64,0.18,0
Central_Macedonia_6,22.24,20.66,19.34,8.35,27.64,0 ,0.87,0,0.16,0,0.75,0,0
Central_Macedonia_7,22.34,19.41,20.15,11.7,21.94,2 .82,0,0,1.02,0.4,0.17,0,0
Central_Macedonia_8,18.83,22.05,20.7,10.78,25.14,1 .64,0,0.72,0.11,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_9,20.44,22.67,20.44,9.79,22.46,2 .49,0,0.87,0,0,0.54,0.29,0
Central_Macedonia_10,21.44,20.87,22.46,8.94,21.43, 2.4,0.15,0.49,0.51,0.72,0.59,0,0
Central_Macedonia_11,23.27,19.01,18.95,11.12,21.64 ,4.14,0.61,0,0,0.73,0.53,0,0
Central_Macedonia_12,22.82,17.76,19.55,13.6,19.18, 4.09,2.22,0,0,0.3,0.29,0,0.18
Central_Macedonia_13,21.86,20.02,19.51,10.39,24.41 ,2.36,0.35,0,0.58,0,0.52,0,0
Central_Macedonia_14,24.62,19.33,19.69,10.52,21.35 ,1.44,0,1.14,1.54,0,0.32,0,0
Central_Macedonia_15,19.61,20.81,20.07,10.58,26.19 ,2.24,0,0,0.32,0.19,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_16,21.98,19.73,18.84,13.55,22.08 ,2.17,0,0.76,0.11,0.74,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_17,22.22,24.57,20.32,7.87,20.71, 2.45,0,0.66,1.2,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_18,24.03,19.19,21.79,10.22,23.71 ,0,0,0.28,0,0.12,0.63,0,0
Central_Macedonia_19,24.36,21.3,19.08,8.64,23.37,1 .98,0,0.24,0.45,0.21,0.37,0,0
Central_Macedonia_20,22.84,19.84,20.09,11.45,23.2, 1.87,0.09,0.25,0,0.37,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_21,21.98,19.73,18.84,13.55,22.08 ,2.17,0,0.76,0.11,0.74,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_22,18.66,22.14,22.77,11.7,20.8,2 .2,0.98,0.28,0.3,0,0.17,0,0
Central_Macedonia_23,24.08,18.48,18.21,11.4,22.87, 3.22,0.35,0.24,0.88,0,0,0.25,0
Central_Macedonia_24,22.21,22.71,16.99,10.79,23.08 ,2.1,1.35,0,0.45,0,0.32,0,0
Central_Macedonia_25,23.07,25.46,17.02,13.79,18.22 ,1.28,0.44,0.22,0,0,0,0.36,0.09
Central_Macedonia_26,22.82,18.2,18.37,13.76,23.52, 1.53,0,0.49,1.28,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_27,19.12,24.19,21.22,12.82,17.07 ,4.08,0,0.4,0.72,0,0,0,0.39
Central_Macedonia_28,19.83,21.21,23.95,11.68,19.8, 2.61,0,0,0.92,0,0,0,0
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Macedonia,21.59,21.29,20.14,11.63,21.71,2.01 ,0.35,0.32,0.39,0.19,0.30,0.04,0.04
Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
0.90470990 Macedonian
0.98757278 Macedonian_South
1.68656456 Macedonian_North
2.10266498 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
3.58533123 Bulgaria_Southcentral
3.58646065 Bulgaria_Southeastern
3.86305579 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
3.87302208 Albanian_Gheg
4.17025179 Bulgaria_Northeastern
4.33922804 Bulgaria_average
4.58183369 Greek_Northern-Thrace
4.64815017 Bulgaria_Northcentral
4.67536095 Albanian
4.87636135 Torbesh_average
4.89220809 Bulgaria_Southwestern
5.21241787 Romania_Muntenia
5.47206771 Greek_Thessaly
5.50358974 Romania_Wallachia
5.56545596 Pomak_Bulgaria
5.58540061 Greek_Central_Macedonia
5.63821780 Romania_Dobruja
5.74255170 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.90978849 Turk_Makedonya
6.08377350 Greek_Northeast
6.24828777 Romania_Oltenia
Thanks a lot for that!
I had in my database the numbers 7 and 26 and I have labeled them as Florina. Most of these samples plot close to few samples I have gathered from western Macedonia while other samples I have gathered with the broad name "Greek Macedonia" are more southern shifted.
If you have samples from other areas I would like to see them too. I am sure there are still hidden surprises. I have recently seen the results of a guy from Sterea Ellada, Fokida whose closest population is Tuscan while he has a distance about 12.5 from Bulgaria!!
catgeorge
04-29-2021, 01:20 AM
They were not included in any averages. I had their kits but I just wrote their results.
Please note that these samples do not include individuals who reported their ancestry from "Thessaloniki" but from the inner parts of Macedonia. Greeks from Thessaloniki, or let's say Chalkidiki, have origin from Euboia, therefore plot more Southern.
https://i.ibb.co/7yMg5gp/makedonyarumlar-k13.png
Central_Macedonia_1,19.48,25.74,20.8,13.95,18.17,0 .25,0.08,0.84,0,0.2,0.19,0,0.29
Central_Macedonia_2,19.88,23.62,20.33,12.3,18.78,2 .71,2.29,0.09,0,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_3,19.19,24.73,21.57,13.99,18.85, 0.41,0,0,0,0,1.17,0,0.07
Central_Macedonia_4,20.52,21.91,21.89,13.18,21.18, 0,0,0,0.26,0,1.07,0,0
Central_Macedonia_5,20.67,20.88,21.07,15.12,19.01, 1.73,0,0.16,0,0.54,0.64,0.18,0
Central_Macedonia_6,22.24,20.66,19.34,8.35,27.64,0 ,0.87,0,0.16,0,0.75,0,0
Central_Macedonia_7,22.34,19.41,20.15,11.7,21.94,2 .82,0,0,1.02,0.4,0.17,0,0
Central_Macedonia_8,18.83,22.05,20.7,10.78,25.14,1 .64,0,0.72,0.11,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_9,20.44,22.67,20.44,9.79,22.46,2 .49,0,0.87,0,0,0.54,0.29,0
Central_Macedonia_10,21.44,20.87,22.46,8.94,21.43, 2.4,0.15,0.49,0.51,0.72,0.59,0,0
Central_Macedonia_11,23.27,19.01,18.95,11.12,21.64 ,4.14,0.61,0,0,0.73,0.53,0,0
Central_Macedonia_12,22.82,17.76,19.55,13.6,19.18, 4.09,2.22,0,0,0.3,0.29,0,0.18
Central_Macedonia_13,21.86,20.02,19.51,10.39,24.41 ,2.36,0.35,0,0.58,0,0.52,0,0
Central_Macedonia_14,24.62,19.33,19.69,10.52,21.35 ,1.44,0,1.14,1.54,0,0.32,0,0
Central_Macedonia_15,19.61,20.81,20.07,10.58,26.19 ,2.24,0,0,0.32,0.19,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_16,21.98,19.73,18.84,13.55,22.08 ,2.17,0,0.76,0.11,0.74,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_17,22.22,24.57,20.32,7.87,20.71, 2.45,0,0.66,1.2,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_18,24.03,19.19,21.79,10.22,23.71 ,0,0,0.28,0,0.12,0.63,0,0
Central_Macedonia_19,24.36,21.3,19.08,8.64,23.37,1 .98,0,0.24,0.45,0.21,0.37,0,0
Central_Macedonia_20,22.84,19.84,20.09,11.45,23.2, 1.87,0.09,0.25,0,0.37,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_21,21.98,19.73,18.84,13.55,22.08 ,2.17,0,0.76,0.11,0.74,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_22,18.66,22.14,22.77,11.7,20.8,2 .2,0.98,0.28,0.3,0,0.17,0,0
Central_Macedonia_23,24.08,18.48,18.21,11.4,22.87, 3.22,0.35,0.24,0.88,0,0,0.25,0
Central_Macedonia_24,22.21,22.71,16.99,10.79,23.08 ,2.1,1.35,0,0.45,0,0.32,0,0
Central_Macedonia_25,23.07,25.46,17.02,13.79,18.22 ,1.28,0.44,0.22,0,0,0,0.36,0.09
Central_Macedonia_26,22.82,18.2,18.37,13.76,23.52, 1.53,0,0.49,1.28,0,0,0,0
Central_Macedonia_27,19.12,24.19,21.22,12.82,17.07 ,4.08,0,0.4,0.72,0,0,0,0.39
Central_Macedonia_28,19.83,21.21,23.95,11.68,19.8, 2.61,0,0,0.92,0,0,0,0
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Greek_Macedonia,21.59,21.29,20.14,11.63,21.71,2.01 ,0.35,0.32,0.39,0.19,0.30,0.04,0.04
Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
0.90470990 Macedonian
0.98757278 Macedonian_South
1.68656456 Macedonian_North
2.10266498 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
3.58533123 Bulgaria_Southcentral
3.58646065 Bulgaria_Southeastern
3.86305579 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
3.87302208 Albanian_Gheg
4.17025179 Bulgaria_Northeastern
4.33922804 Bulgaria_average
4.58183369 Greek_Northern-Thrace
4.64815017 Bulgaria_Northcentral
4.67536095 Albanian
4.87636135 Torbesh_average
4.89220809 Bulgaria_Southwestern
5.21241787 Romania_Muntenia
5.47206771 Greek_Thessaly
5.50358974 Romania_Wallachia
5.56545596 Pomak_Bulgaria
5.58540061 Greek_Central_Macedonia
5.63821780 Romania_Dobruja
5.74255170 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.90978849 Turk_Makedonya
6.08377350 Greek_Northeast
6.24828777 Romania_Oltenia
Typical Kaspias making up fantasies with outliers
kleenex
04-29-2021, 02:11 AM
Here's mine, Greek Peloponnese:
tonyc, 21.84, 14.77,19.44,13.27,26.7,3.35,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.63,0. 00,0.00,0.00
Distance to: tonyc
3.00036664 Greek_West_Macedonia
3.47023054 Greek
3.52430135 Greek_Northeast
3.53212401 Greek_Peloponnese
3.73910417 Greek_West
3.79258817 Greek_Thessaly
3.81388254 Albanian_Tosk
4.46645273 Greek_Western-Thrace
4.76352810 Greek_Central
lockdownboredom
04-29-2021, 03:11 AM
Distance to: lb
1.78143201 Greek_Central_Macedonia
3.13137350 Greek_Northeast
3.17277875 Greek_Thessaly
3.34740198 Greek
3.50254193 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
3.56227455 Albanian
3.60606434 Greek_West
3.70862508 Albanian_Gheg
4.02100734 Torbesh_average
4.18394551 Greek_West_Macedonia
4.23096916 Albanian_Tosk
4.60261882 Greek_Peloponnese
4.68893378 Macedonian_South
4.76313972 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
4.78835045 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.82198092 Macedonian
4.85064944 Turk_Makedonya
4.89955100 Greek_Northern-Thrace
5.45564845 Bulgaria_Southeastern
5.72856003 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
5.73247765 Macedonian_North
7.01010699 Bulgaria_Southcentral
7.12909531 Greek_Central
7.31748591 Bulgaria_Northeastern
7.33288483 Greek_Western-Thrace
Distance to: lb
1.40527577 Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg
2.35537683 Macedonia:Macedonia_686
2.60123048 Thessaloniki_Central_Macedonia
2.82377407 Greek_Northeast_avg
3.15192005 GreeceNE11
3.30791475 Macedonia:Macedonia_681
3.50254193 aromanian_avg
3.70052699 aromanian8
3.73062997 Macedonia:Macedonia_676
3.82985639 aromanian6
3.90480473 Eastern_Thrace
3.94545308 East_Rumelia_650
3.95943178 Ptolemaida_West_Macedonia
4.01698892 bigsnake_thrace
4.17546405 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP17
4.18394551 Greek_West_Macedonia_avg
4.22249926 Thessaloniki_Central_Macedonia
4.35043676 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP9
4.35967889 aromanian5
4.46004484 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
4.55839884 Macedonia:Macedonia_675
4.60203216 GreeceMaced3
4.64473896 Macedonia:Macedonia_678
4.65831515 Macedonia:Macedonia_680
4.72182168 East_Rumelia_645
Kaspias
04-29-2021, 10:05 AM
Thanks a lot for that!
I had in my database the numbers 7 and 26 and I have labeled them as Florina. Most of these samples plot close to few samples I have gathered from western Macedonia while other samples I have gathered with the broad name "Greek Macedonia" are more southern shifted.
If you have samples from other areas I would like to see them too. I am sure there are still hidden surprises. I have recently seen the results of a guy from Sterea Ellada, Fokida whose closest population is Tuscan while he has a distance about 12.5 from Bulgaria!!
#7 is apparently from Akritas, Florina, but I hadn't had village information for 26. And yes, the more Southern samples of yours are prolly from Southern parts of Western Macedonia or Chalkidiki (although some part of them were settled in Thessaloniki in the last century) where Greek was the only spoken language for centuries. If you see such a sample from the coast or a Southern shifted sample from the mountainous areas please let me know, so we can discuss it again.
I have kits for Thrace too, but they are honestly a mess now. I need some validation mails as well as organizing them in the table format so it may take some time.
vbnetkhio
04-29-2021, 04:32 PM
#7 is apparently from Akritas, Florina, but I hadn't had village information for 26. And yes, the more Southern samples of yours are prolly from Southern parts of Western Macedonia or Chalkidiki (although some part of them were settled in Thessaloniki in the last century) where Greek was the only spoken language for centuries. If you see such a sample from the coast or a Southern shifted sample from the mountainous areas please let me know, so we can discuss it again.
I have kits for Thrace too, but they are honestly a mess now. I need some validation mails as well as organizing them in the table format so it may take some time.
one of the Florina samples in the first post of this thread has only 9.9% Baltic.
here I posted a colelction of Northeast Greeks (East Macedonia, Thrace, Rumelia)
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?319731-Macedonian-Gedmatch-kits-28&p=7184660&viewfull=1#post7184660
Coolguy1
09-27-2021, 12:47 AM
Does anyone know if the Peloponnesian samples in G25 below are actually confirmed Peloponnesians? What about the three Thessalians, NE126, NE144, and NE162? Also, what study were the Greek Thessaly 1-10 samples taken from?
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