Famine in Somalia, World less likely to intervene

[Storm]

Famine hits Somalia in world less likely to intervene

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-110712-africa-famine/ss-110915-eastAfricaFamine-jc-09.grid-9x2.jpg

DOLO, Somalia — Is the world about to watch 750,000 Somalis starve to death? The United Nations’ warnings could not be clearer. A drought-induced famine is steadily creeping across Somalia and tens of thousands of people have already died. The Islamist militant group the Shabab is blocking most aid agencies from accessing the areas it controls, and in the next few months three-quarters of a million people could run out of food, United Nations officials say.

Soon, the rains will start pounding down, but before any crops will grow, disease will bloom. Malaria, cholera, typhoid and measles will sweep through immune-suppressed populations, aid agencies say, killing countless malnourished people.

In a way, this is all déjà vu. In the early 1990s, Somalia was hit by famine, precipitated by drought and similarly callous thugs blocking food aid and producing similarly appalling images of skeletal children dying in the sand. In fact, the famine back then was in the same area of Somalia, the lower third, home to powerless minority clans that often bear the brunt of this country’s chronic troubles.

But in the 1990s, the world was more willing to intervene. The United Nations rallied behind more than 25,000 American troops, who embarked on a multibillion-dollar mission to beat back the gunmen long enough to get food into the mouths of starving people.

Contrast that with what happened last week. At a lackluster famine summit meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, Ethiopia’s prime minister, Meles Zenawi, proposed to forcefully establish humanitarian corridors, so that food aid could be delivered to Shabab-controlled areas. Few Western donors were enthused.

'It doesn't work'
“There’s no mood for intervention,” said one American official, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter. “People remember what happened in the 1990s. ‘It doesn’t work’ was the conclusion.”

Foreign military force, analysts say, has never succeeded in solving Somalia’s problems and it is not going to solve them now. This famine is not just about the Shabab’s blocking food aid. It is about a broken state and the human wreckage it is causing.

Take Mogadishu, the capital. The Shabab more or less pulled out in August, leaving Somalia’s transitional government in control of large swathes of the city, including the sprawling camp for displaced refugees. But government “control” — and that term seems more aspirational than meaningful — does not translate into a smooth aid operation. Instead, government soldiers have looted aid trucks and shot starving people.

Somalia’s politicians have been too busy squabbling with one another to build institutions like a functioning health ministry or a sanitation department that would help drought victims. Some of the informal clusters of people in Mogadishu camped out for aid are already breaking up, and it is not clear where the displaced people are trudging to. Many aid agencies — and Western militaries — are justifiably wary of this environment, and so far the response to the famine has been well short of what is needed to stem the crisis.

“I don’t think that there’s a case to be made that the famine can be mitigated through military intervention,” said Bronwyn E. Bruton, a democracy and governance expert who wrote a provocative essay published by the Council on Foreign Relations urging the West to withdraw from Somalia.

The African Union, which has 9,000 peacekeepers in Mogadishu, “isn’t able to safeguard the delivery of aid in Mogadishu,” Ms. Bruton said. “How could they possibly extend their reach outside the capital?”

“Theft, corruption and violence are endemic,” she added. “The problem extends past al Shabab to anybody with a gun.”

Grim math
In Somalia, there are many of them. This was the problem in the 1990s. The United Nations urged American forces to disarm the warlords and their flip-flop-clad militias, but the Pentagon did not want to risk many American lives to do that. Instead, the United States opted for a narrowly-scoped intervention and then hastily withdrew after 18 servicemen were killed in an epic street battle immortalized in the “Black Hawk Down” book and movie (and video game). According to a study by the Refugee Policy Group, the American-led operation and the attendant relief effort saved around 110,000 lives, while 240,000 were lost to the famine.

It is grim math, especially considering how enormous the aid operation was. The Refugee Policy Group study has a graph showing famine casualties, which tend to come in two spikes: one at the onset of the crisis, before the bulk of aid arrives; the other when the rains come. For the current famine, analysts are now bracing for possibly hundreds of thousands of deaths.

“We’ve lost this round,” said Ken Menkhaus, a political science professor at Davidson College. “The numbers are going to be horrifying. We’re too late.”

Famines do not turn on a dime. Bodies are depleted by months of malnutrition and stress. Many Somalis, as evidenced by the throngs of half-living people stumbling into the camps in Mogadishu or the ones here in Dolo, a little town on the Ethiopian border, are too far gone.

“One or two people are surviving from each family,” said Lul Mahamoud Ali, a mother of four who recently arrived from a famine-stricken village. Her children were listless and glassy-eyed, and Mrs. Lul carried with her all she owned — a thin mattress, a red mat and a wooden chest, which was empty.

Lessons learned
Mr. Menkhaus worked as an aid consultant in Somalia in the 1990s and said: “Back then, we were just making it up as we went along. Today it’s so much more scientific.”

For instance, the American government has helped set up the Famine Early Warning Systems Network, which tracks everything from rainfall to the price of goats to forecast potential famines worldwide. This has helped aid groups pre-position food in Somalia and prepare for the deluge of refugees, though it seems that few anticipated just how bad this famine would be.

Another lesson learned was how to feed people. The approach in the 1990s was to flood Somalia with food aid, which empowered militias, set off conflict between them and created a flourishing criminal network of war profiteers who stood to make millions off looted grain. This time around, the World Food Program and others are still handing out food, but more aid agencies are turning to cash or to food vouchers, enabling hungry people to buy their own supplies, which is intended to encourage private enterprise and not make enemies of Somalia’s powerful businessmen.

The other day, Chris Smoot, an official with the World Vision aid group, arrived in Dolo with a thick book of food vouchers. He presented them to the young district commissioner, who sat in a twig hut and revealed that he had little experience in dealing with emergencies and little schooling.

“Imagine,” Mr. Smoot said. “You’re 35 years old, you have a primary school education, you’re the D.C., and now you’re confronted with this?”

Twenty years after the central government collapsed, this is the story across so much of Somalia. And given the world’s limited interest in a major intervention, that is not likely to change anytime soon.

Source - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44541812/ns/world_news-the_new_york_times

[Gaztelu]

I feel like a heartless bastard for writing this, but I don't see this as bad news. In fact, it feels quite the opposite.

[Magister Eckhart]

I feel like a heartless bastard for writing this, but I don't see this as bad news. In fact, it feels quite the opposite.

I don't feel bad for the cockroaches when the exterminator comes by, so I'm finding it hard to understand why that makes you heartless. Somalia hasn't exactly shown itself to be a bastion of humanity and civilisation in recent geological epochs, and somehow I doubt that shortcoming is going to change much in the next millennia or two.

Indeed, this sob story speaks to a vast improvement among Western nations: perhaps we are starting to wise-up at least a little and take care of our own before rending our clothes at the sorrows of foreigners and animals, especially the overpopulated Negro.

[Damião de Góis]

I don't know, i think it's possible to love your people and culture and at the same time not hating others or wanting them to die from starvation. Or even thinking they are not human, as it's on another thread...

[Gaztelu]

I don't know, i think it's possible to love your people and culture and at the same time not hating others or wanting them to die from starvation. Or even thinking they are not human, as it's on another thread...

Just out of curiousity, has Portugal taken in refugees from Somalia?

[Damião de Góis]

Just out of curiousity, has Portugal taken in refugees from Somalia?

Are you trying to discredit my opinion? :rolleyes:
No but we have plenty of other african immigrants from our ex-colonies... i don't want them to die from starvation though, even if i'm not a fan of them being here. But maybe it's just me.

[Gaztelu]

No.

You all are lucky.

That is all.

[Phil75231]

If you don't want Africans in your own country, then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

But to say Africans deserve to starve??? WTF?!?

That is just so beyond barbarism that NO civilized person - and even most uncivilized people besides - would hold THAT opinion in the first place! You absolutely disgust me.

ADDED: LORD, the people who actually pass for human beings!!!!

[Albion]

Famine hits Somali every ten bloody years because the people breed like rabbits in a region which is already semi-desert, dirt poor and can support few people (carrying capacity).

Honestly, if Europeans lived there under the same conditions they'd have the sense not to bring more kids into such a world. Yet that is what we see time after time in Africa, dumb fucks breeding like there's no tommorow and then they wonder why they're fucked in a famine.

They make problems a hell of a lot worse for themselves.

Take Iceland in Europe - a tough climate and historically poor nation, yet they never bred like the Africans, they kept their population at a sustainable level.

That is the excuse the liberals peddle us all the time - that Africans breed so much because they're poor and need more labour and in doing so they make things worse.
Well no, Africans just keep making the same mistakes time and time again because they generally lack common sense.

[Albion]

If you don't want Africans in your own country, then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

But to say Africans deserve to starve??? WTF?!?

That is just so beyond barbarism that NO civilized person - and even most uncivilized people besides - would hold THAT opinion in the first place! You absolutely disgust me.

ADDED: LORD, the people who actually pass for human beings!!!!


I don't feel bad for the cockroaches when the exterminator comes by, so I'm finding it hard to understand why that makes you heartless. Somalia hasn't exactly shown itself to be a bastion of humanity and civilisation in recent geological epochs, and somehow I doubt that shortcoming is going to change much in the next millennia or two.

Indeed, this sob story speaks to a vast improvement among Western nations: perhaps we are starting to wise-up at least a little and take care of our own before rending our clothes at the sorrows of foreigners and animals, especially the overpopulated Negro.

Agreed. I want them to stay in Somali and to stop attacking ships and spreading around Europe as asylum seekers.
But I cannot say that I love the idea of anyone starving.

They need to stay the hell away from Europe, but at the samw time they need at least some help in the famine.

In the long run, teaching them decent agriculture for the region and how to tap the aquifers with tunnels like the arabs did would help too. That and teaching them the values of contraception and that it is wrong to bring more people into a already desolate region.

[Eldritch]

If you don't want Africans in your own country, then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

But to say Africans deserve to starve??? WTF?!?

That is just so beyond barbarism that NO civilized person - and even most uncivilized people besides - would hold THAT opinion in the first place! You absolutely disgust me.

ADDED: LORD, the people who actually pass for human beings!!!!

I can only speak for myself, but there's a subtle difference between wanting Somalis to starve and being happy when that happens (I do not and am not) and not giving a toss anymore (which I don't).

As the article itself makes quite clear, Somalia's problems are beyond solution. Even if we threw money at the crisis now to make it go away, there would only be another one next year.

Somalia is a failed, ravaged, chaotic country, because it has a certain catastrophic problem: there are way too many Somalis there. Somalia's problems won't be over until 100% of the population are living on welfare in Europe and North America. Not one second before that. Is that really what we want?

[Kataphraktoi]

Would the average African citizen even notice if we stopped aid tomorrow? I doubt it, since most of it is wasted, stolen or used as a weapon. Somalia has no semblance of a functioning government. Fact is, drought is common in east Africa, they should have the infrastructure and agricultural reserves to prevent this. These African nations have vast amounts of natural resources, they should develop their own economies and this can only be done by halting the aid given to them. Africa coped before without Europeans, they can do so again.

[Supreme American]

One thing I see in every single television news report about the Somali famine is that they're omitting the obvious: very few adults appear emaciated from hunger. It's all only kids. These people are taking the food for themselves and letting the kids go hungry, and nobody will call them on it.

[Eldritch]

One thing I see in every single television news report about the Somali famine is that they're omitting the obvious: very few adults appear emaciated from hunger. It's all only kids. These people are taking the food for themselves and letting the kids go hungry, and nobody will call them on it.

Just like the "asylum seekers" and "refugees" we get from Somalia are always young, able-bodied men -- never children, women or elderly people.

[Wulfhere]

Why doesn't its close neighbour and fellow Muslim country Saudi Arabia fork out a few million to save them?

[Magister Eckhart]

Agreed. I want them to stay in Somali and to stop attacking ships and spreading around Europe as asylum seekers.
But I cannot say that I love the idea of anyone starving.

They need to stay the hell away from Europe, but at the samw time they need at least some help in the famine.

In the long run, teaching them decent agriculture for the region and how to tap the aquifers with tunnels like the arabs did would help too. That and teaching them the values of contraception and that it is wrong to bring more people into a already desolate region.

Nor do I. I'm not throwing a party, but frankly I'm indifferent to the fate of the Negro in general and Somalians in particular.

I am pleased to see other countries guarding their money instead of wasting it on foreigners who reproduce at rates that rival several species of insect, however.

[askra]

famine in Somalia is increased due to the muslim militias that are stopping international aids toward that country,
why don't the rich Arab Emirates goes to aid their muslim brothers in Somalia?

i sincerely will not spend 1 euro to support somalian muslim integralists, who attack ships in the Indian Ocean, using weapons bought with money of the humanitarian agencies.

[Supreme American]

Nor do I. I'm not throwing a party, but frankly I'm indifferent to the fate of the Negro in general and Somalians in particular.

I am pleased to see other countries guarding their money instead of wasting it on foreigners who reproduce at rates that rival several species of insect, however.

I'm tired of the notion that we're supposed to consider them our equals while they act like dependent inferiors.

[Supreme American]

famine in Somalia is increased due to the muslim militias that are stopping international aids toward that country,
why don't the rich Arab Emirates goes to aid their muslim brothers in Somalia?

I've been asking those questions myself. Supposedly 1 billion Muslims worldwide yet all we're seeing is appeals to the WEST for help?

[Albion]

Why doesn't its close neighbour and fellow Muslim country Saudi Arabia fork out a few million to save them?


why don't the rich Arab Emirates goes to aid their muslim brothers in Somalia?



I've been asking those questions myself. Supposedly 1 billion Muslims worldwide yet all we're seeing is appeals to the WEST for help?

Oh my god? You people don't know? The Arabs don't see the Somalis and black people as equals - they see them as inferior! :rolleyes:
So much for Muslim brotherhood.

There is an ancient black people in Yemen - they're the dredges of society and treated badly by the Yemenis.
Also the Arabs in their slave trading didn't just enslave white people, but also black people from as far south as Tanzania - Europeans didn't start the slave trade in Africa - it was already there for a long time.


Al-Akhdam or Akhdam (singular Khadem, meaning "servant" in Arabic; also called Al-Muhamasheen, "the marginalized ones") are a social group in Yemen distinct from the majority by their more African features. They are considered to be at the very bottom of the social ladder in Yemen...

They are mostly confined to menial jobs and living on the fringes of society....

In Yemen, they are popularly believed to be the descendants of Ethiopian soldiers of the Aksumite Empire that occupied modern-day Yemen more than 1,500 years ago and who remained there as slaves or servants of the local population after the occupation ended. Most Akhdam live in slums at the outskirts of the major cities, 100,000 of them live in San‘a’, others are in Aden, Ta'izz, Lahij, Abyan, Al Hudaydah and Al Mukalla.


Such an empire was probably Arab-run no doubt, with blacks serving as the cheap labour force.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Akhdam_children_Taizz.jpg/800px-Akhdam_children_Taizz.jpg

There's descendants of black slaves thanks to the Arabs in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, India and most Arab countries.

How interesting it is that they've managed to remain distinct from the Arab populations to this day... it sounds as if the Arabs don't want to mix with them... didn't white people call that apartheid when the White South Africans did it?... Typical double standards again, because the Arabs aren't white the bleeding hearts turn a blind eye, whereas if it's Europeans not wanting to mix with them then there's hell to pay! :mad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Akhdam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Some Arab quotes...


Al-Jahiz also stated in his Kitab al-Bukhala ("Avarice and the Avaricious") that:

"We know that the Zanj (blacks) are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of their actions."

Talk about telling it how it is.


This sentiment was echoed in the following passage from Kitab al-Bad' wah-tarikh (vol.4) by the medieval Arab writer Al-Muqaddasi:

As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence


Al-Dimashqi (Ibn al-Nafis), the Arab polymath, also described the inhabitants of Sudan (Not Nubia) and the Zanj coast, among others, as being of "dim" intelligence and that:

...the moral characteristics found in their mentality are close to the instinctive characteristics found naturally in animals.

They are right though - Africans are probably the dumbest race of all. There are some exceptions of course, but generally they are pretty dumb.




Nor do I. I'm not throwing a party, but frankly I'm indifferent to the fate of the Negro in general and Somalians in particular.

Same here.

[rhiannon]

I don't know, i think it's possible to love your people and culture and at the same time not hating others or wanting them to die from starvation. Or even thinking they are not human, as it's on another thread...

Ditto to that.

[rhiannon]

If you don't want Africans in your own country, then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

But to say Africans deserve to starve??? WTF?!?

That is just so beyond barbarism that NO civilized person - and even most uncivilized people besides - would hold THAT opinion in the first place! You absolutely disgust me.

ADDED: LORD, the people who actually pass for human beings!!!!

Liked-minded individuals unite.......you are absolutely spot on. :thumb001:

[Peerkons]

Call me inhuman, but everytime I hear about some earthquake in China or famine in Africa I have smile on my face.
They are too much. It's just the way it is.
Less niggers won't do any harm. Have a nice day!

[Loki]

The £600m that the UK currently gives to Pakistan to help them build up their nuclear arsenal would be much better spent helping starving people in Somalia.

[Treffie]

Call me inhuman, but everytime I hear about some earthquake in China or famine in Africa I have smile on my face.
They are too much. It's just the way it is.
Less niggers won't do any harm. Have a nice day!

Let's hope you'll be smiling at them when they start investing in your country ;)

[Don]

Stop blaming the west for the incapability of these idiots to stop having >10 children in an environment where they can't feed so many of them.

For sure they care less about their own children, than the normal european. Is usual in many cultures the low value the lives of young members have, contrary to our perpection. Many people is fooled about this when dealing with matters about this one of Somalians, a lack of real empathy with them.

In the meantime, in Spain normal spaniards only have 1 or 2... they have 12 while if only having 1 or 2, they could raise and feed them quite better... What the fuck is this? Party! the white man feeds!


Correction: yes, is nice to blame us since some of us are reinforcing their senseless behaviour of massive and inconscient breeding feeding the "excedents". That is our fail. An inmature, un-empathic and ethnocentist vision and attitude about the matter.

Is a vicious circle with an evident solution.

[Jon Snow]

If you don't want Africans in your own country, then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it!

But to say Africans deserve to starve??? WTF?!?

That is just so beyond barbarism that NO civilized person - and even most uncivilized people besides - would hold THAT opinion in the first place! You absolutely disgust me.

ADDED: LORD, the people who actually pass for human beings!!!!

The histrionics. :rolleyes: :nopity00:

You know, there are plenty of people in this world who would quite readily contend that "NO civilized person" would ever say that people are "entitled" to not "want(ing) Africans in their country".

Just saying. :coffee:


I can only speak for myself, but there's a subtle difference between wanting Somalis to starve and being happy when that happens (I do not and am not) and not giving a toss anymore (which I don't).

As the article itself makes quite clear, Somalia's problems are beyond solution. Even if we threw money at the crisis now to make it go away, there would only be another one next year.

Somalia is a failed, ravaged, chaotic country, because it has a certain catastrophic problem: there are way too many Somalis there. Somalia's problems won't be over until 100% of the population are living on welfare in Europe and North America. Not one second before that. Is that really what we want?

Everybody read this post again, because it's spot on.


One thing I see in every single television news report about the Somali famine is that they're omitting the obvious: very few adults appear emaciated from hunger. It's all only kids. These people are taking the food for themselves and letting the kids go hungry, and nobody will call them on it.

Disgusting. Typical, but disgusting.


The £600m that the UK currently gives to Pakistan to help them build up their nuclear arsenal would be much better spent helping starving people in Somalia.

:ohwell:

So what happens when the Somalis who are rescued from starvation continue to breed at the same rate, and their society is that much further away from self-sufficiency? Does the UK send £1b? What about the next generation? And the next?

Better to let things return to the natural state of affairs as swiftly as possible. Less people will die in the long run, and already broke Western governments won't dig themselves further in the hole.

[BeerBaron]

Give me all the bad reps you want, these are the facts-

the world is only so big,
we only have so many resources
agricultural output has been in the decline
the climate is driving output further down, less suitable land
there are to many people
the average birthrate in africa is 4 per women, as high as 7.5 in nigeria

So, given all these facts.....starve them, someone has to make the tough calls, this is a tough call, but necessary for the rest of humanity, and if you have to pick a people to die, the africans are by far the best choice, they contribute nothing compared to even those in the 2nd world, let alone Europeans and their decedents, who are responsible for just about everything around you.

Edit: I dont mean let them starve, I mean do it on purpose, burning the fields is a European tradition after all.

[Albion]

Africa is like one big Malthusian Event, only on a smaller scale. They breed and breed, stretching the resources and the land to breaking point and then disaster strikes, a famine.
But they never seem to learn.

Maybe such an event may sweep the whole continent in time if they continue at this pace.

[Joe McCarthy]

I certainly wouldn't trust Barack Obama to do a better job with warlords and Islamists in a meals-on-wheels operation than George Bush and Bill Clinton did. The world says it wants America to mind its own business, so...

As George Will put it, 'Somalia: don't need it, never had it, don't want it.'

[rhiannon]

Give me all the bad reps you want, these are the facts-

the world is only so big,
we only have so many resources
agricultural output has been in the decline
the climate is driving output further down, less suitable land
there are to many people
the average birthrate in africa is 4 per women, as high as 7.5 in nigeria

So, given all these facts.....starve them, someone has to make the tough calls, this is a tough call, but necessary for the rest of humanity, and if you have to pick a people to die, the africans are by far the best choice, they contribute nothing compared to even those in the 2nd world, let alone Europeans and their decedents, who are responsible for just about everything around you.

Edit: I dont mean let them starve, I mean do it on purpose, burning the fields is a European tradition after all.

Jesus H Criminy...this is not the Middle Ages anymore. We HAVE the technology NOW to feed EVERY STINKING person on this planet. Corporate greed and exploitation of third world resources ensure it will never happen. You can deny it all you want....but it IS the truth.

What you suggest indicates a level of inhumanity I, as a fellow human being, cannot ever condone. It's sickening.:(

That you'd even suggest this.....I don't even know what else to say.....even though you have made some valid points regarding a finite number of resources.

[Troll's Puzzle]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SG9jRGkU_uk/SN-oUdGgnzI/AAAAAAAAAHg/stodDG0YSvg/s320/Thomas_Malthus.jpg

[Turkophagos]

Bad news. Famine in Africa = More African refugees in Europe.

[Phil75231]

The histrionics. :rolleyes: :nopity00:

You know, there are plenty of people in this world who would quite readily contend that "NO civilized person" would ever say that people are "entitled" to not "want(ing) Africans in their country".

Just saying. :coffee:

Well, I happen to believe in freedom to express opinions, no matter how controversial; although even I generally agree with exceptions (no "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater", no slander or libel, "clear and present danger" in the speech inciting civil disorder [that'd be Inciting a Riot], death threats, etc.).

But generally, merely expressing the view that you don't want certain people in your territory doesn't rise to that level. One of the great prices of free speech - you have to allow others' views to be expressed (within the limits I just mentioned).

EVEN SO, People have the right to express that view, and those who disagree with it have the right to challenge it. I'm not going to force people to think a certain way (as though that's possible!), but I'm sure going to challenge such b.s. statements like the ones saying "Africans dying of famine is a good thing".

[Joe McCarthy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SG9jRGkU_uk/SN-oUdGgnzI/AAAAAAAAAHg/stodDG0YSvg/s320/Thomas_Malthus.jpg

Except that he was wrong. We have more people, less famine, and better dietary standards than we ever have.

[BeerBaron]

Jesus H Criminy...this is not the Middle Ages anymore. We HAVE the technology NOW to feed EVERY STINKING person on this planet. Corporate greed and exploitation of third world resources ensure it will never happen. You can deny it all you want....but it IS the truth.

What you suggest indicates a level of inhumanity I, as a fellow human being, cannot ever condone. It's sickening.:(

That you'd even suggest this.....I don't even know what else to say.....even though you have made some valid points regarding a finite number of resources.

The population of africa was around 900 mil in 2009, in 2025 it will be 1.5 billion, in 2050 over 2 billion. These are low estimates, at their current birth rates, it will be over 2 billion in 18 years.

If you would prefer to live in candyland I suggest you go now, because humanity is reaching a point where these types of decisions are going to be made by necessity soon enough. It is simply the way it is.

And since you clearly are not aware, water treatment facilities, power facilities, food storage, are all targets in modern warfare. They are targeted to quell the civilian population, it is a tactic of every military on the face of the planet. Look it up

[Albion]

Except that he was wrong. We have more people, less famine, and better dietary standards than we ever have.

How can you conclude that? He hasn't been proved wrong yet because populations have continued to rise, he could be right yet.


Jesus H Criminy...this is not the Middle Ages anymore. We HAVE the technology NOW to feed EVERY STINKING person on this planet. Corporate greed and exploitation of third world resources ensure it will never happen. You can deny it all you want....but it IS the truth.

What you suggest indicates a level of inhumanity I, as a fellow human being, cannot ever condone. It's sickening.:(

That you'd even suggest this.....I don't even know what else to say.....even though you have made some valid points regarding a finite number of resources.

We have enough agriculture to feed the world if:


Everyone adopts a vegetarian diet, there'd be a huge surplus of food since raising meat on land and crops which could be grown for humans is a lot less efficient
If people just ate less meat there'd be more grain to feed people. Even the low-grade grain used in animal feed would not be turned down in Africa.
The arable agricultural area could be doubled, however this would be at the expense of everything else and would mostly be in the Northern hemisphere anyway (the rich hemisphere)

[Troll's Puzzle]

Except that he was wrong. We have more people, less famine, and better dietary standards than we ever have.

that still doesn't mean he was truely 'wrong', though.


In general, the neo-Malthusians think Malthus was right -- but perhaps ahead of his time. In sub-Saharan Africa, where drought, poverty, and a shortage of arable land all limit food production, and AIDS is reducing life expectancy, however, some could argue that Malthus is being proven correct -- on a regional scale -- right now. Life expectancy in Kenya -- 56 before the AIDS epidemic -- is expected to plunge to 42 by 2010 (see "AIDS to Reduce... " in the bibliography). Botswana, where one-quarter of adults are infected with HIV, is suffering a similar fate. (page (http://whyfiles.org/096y6b/5.html))

[Joe McCarthy]

Even a cursory reading of Malthus in 1798 reveals he was predicting imminent catastrophe through geometrical population increase. He was wrong on both the famine and the population increase, and then chicken little neo-Malthusians like Paul Ehrlich got it wrong in the last century too.

Like Marxists though, Malthusians remain determined that history is on their side. Hope springs eternal. Surely, they hope, we wil one day all starve to death.

[rhiannon]

The population of africa was around 900 mil in 2009, in 2025 it will be 1.5 billion, in 2050 over 2 billion. These are low estimates, at their current birth rates, it will be over 2 billion in 18 years.

If you would prefer to live in candyland I suggest you go now, because humanity is reaching a point where these types of decisions are going to be made by necessity soon enough. It is simply the way it is.

And since you clearly are not aware, water treatment facilities, power facilities, food storage, are all targets in modern warfare. They are targeted to quell the civilian population, it is a tactic of every military on the face of the planet. Look it up

I don't disbelieve the things you are saying. But, I just can't suggest starving other human beings in this modern age. Even with the population explosion....we have so much technology available to us if it were just used to the right ends...we CAN feed everyone.

As for the population explosion in Africa.....I kinda doubt most of them have access to birth control. Hell....many of them aren't getting enough food....or medical care...... Should it really be any surprise that their population is growing?

Colonial expansion has been a double-edged sword for Africa.....not to mention a big part of the continent is not exactly ideal agricultural ground...

[rhiannon]

How can you conclude that? He hasn't been proved wrong yet because populations have continued to rise, he could be right yet.



We have enough agriculture to feed the world if:


Everyone adopts a vegetarian diet, there'd be a huge surplus of food since raising meat on land and crops which could be grown for humans is a lot less efficient
If people just ate less meat there'd be more grain to feed people. Even the low-grade grain used in animal feed would not be turned down in Africa.
The arable agricultural area could be doubled, however this would be at the expense of everything else and would mostly be in the Northern hemisphere anyway (the rich hemisphere)


I agree. The Western world eats MUCH more meat than the rest of the world combined.... The US is likely the largest offender:(

[Albion]

Even a cursory reading of Malthus in 1798 reveals he was predicting imminent catastrophe through geometrical population increase. He was wrong on both the famine and the population increase, and then chicken little neo-Malthusians like Paul Ehrlich got it wrong in the last century too.

Like Marxists though, Malthusians remain determined that history is on their side. Hope springs eternal. Surely, they hope, we wil one day all starve to death.

Well is it not possible that one day humans could actually strip the planet bare? I think it is possible.

However I more lean to "regional Malthusian events" whereby large regions and continents get struck but it (Africa, East and South East Asia) whereas others which are self-supporting with smaller populations don't (Europe, Americas).

I don't think anyone hopes for it. Some people just like to think about all eventualities whilst others prefer to gloss over it.

[rhiannon]

Well is it not possible that one day humans could actually strip the planet bare? I think it is possible.

However I more lean to "regional Malthusian events" whereby large regions and continents get struck but it (Africa, East and South East Asia) whereas others which are self-supporting with smaller populations don't (Europe, Americas).

I don't think anyone hopes for it. Some people just like to think about all eventualities whilst others prefer to gloss over it.

America is not self-supporting. We are the world's biggest glutton of ALL.

[Treffie]

In as much as I have sympathy for these people who are starving (the vast majority of them are innocent), I find it difficult to push myself to help them out through financial means. Most regimes in these areas are inherently corrupt, and I'd like to see all of the money that I have donated go to a good cause - not into the dirty hands of warlords buying weapons and corrupt politicians etc.

[Joe McCarthy]

Well is it not possible that one day humans could actually strip the planet bare? I think it is possible.

However I more lean to "regional Malthusian events" whereby large regions and continents get struck but it (Africa, East and South East Asia) whereas others which are self-supporting with smaller populations don't (Europe, Americas).

I don't think anyone hopes for it. Some people just like to think about all eventualities whilst others prefer to gloss over it.

I suppose it is possible we could one day live in a Marxist workers' paradise, too. Unlikely, but possible.

And while they don't technically hope for it (I was kidding) they do look for any sign of doom in order to try and prove their leader right - another similarity with Marxists.

I think in an era of shrinking birthrates globally it is not the time to conclude Malthus was right. Had he been right we'd have far more people than we do.

The one element of population bomb theory that is onto something is that it'll tend to create competition for resources that could lead to migration or war, especially as there is great disparity in wealth between Europe and Africa, but while that's problematic it's nothing really new. Asian nomads like the Huns were likely pushed west in search of better resources, and that in a time of much less population.

[Albion]

America is not self-supporting. We are the world's biggest glutton of ALL.

But they could be if fat people got a grip and if the nation consumed a lower proportion of meat with meals.
It's not about abandoning meat altogether, just consuming less. I think Brits consume about a quarter of meat that Americans eat, it was something like that and yet we're a good country for raising livestock for it.

[Joe McCarthy]

America is not self-supporting. We are the world's biggest glutton of ALL.

We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume.

[Joe McCarthy]

In as much as I have sympathy for these people who are starving (the vast majority of them are innocent), I find it difficult to push myself to help them out through financial means. Most regimes in these areas are inherently corrupt, and I'd like to see all of the money that I have donated go to a good cause - not into the dirty hands of warlords buying weapons and corrupt politicians etc.

Right. Charitable resources are scarce and should go into projects that have a chance not to result in another famine in 20 years. Somalia's problem is maladministration, or no administrationn, not overpopulation, though.

[Sahson]

Altruism is a deadly disease. Altruism has shown us time and again throughout history, the sacrifices we make to help people end up never solving their problems. Why? because Altruism makes the receivers of the benefactors never learn from their mistakes.

[BeerBaron]

I don't disbelieve the things you are saying. But, I just can't suggest starving other human beings in this modern age. Even with the population explosion....we have so much technology available to us if it were just used to the right ends...we CAN feed everyone.

As for the population explosion in Africa.....I kinda doubt most of them have access to birth control. Hell....many of them aren't getting enough food....or medical care...... Should it really be any surprise that their population is growing?

Colonial expansion has been a double-edged sword for Africa.....not to mention a big part of the continent is not exactly ideal agricultural ground...

Our technology isnt the issue, agricultural output has been in decline for a few reasons despite technological advances. The climate is changing, and land is being over used, its a reality in agriculture. We also have a rising chinese class, that is demanding better food, same in india.

As it was mentioned before, Iceland had a harsh climate and was a traditionally poor country, their birthrate was much lower. The fault is on the africans themselves. In a country that cannot support many people, you simply don't have 7 children per women, which is the rate in nigeria atm. It's most certainly is their fault, and theirs alone. Except they are not hurting just themselves, they are helping bring the world to population crisis point, and you dont want to see what will happen in that scenario, mad max x10

We can argue about colonialism, which is generally the first thing people say about africa. What they forget is that Zimbabwe was one of the most developed countries in africa, under UK colonialism, when they got freedom in the 80's they kicked all the white farms out, or killed them, and ran the country into the ground in less than 10 years. Other nations have similar history and Morocco has said they have been successful because of the French. So this whole colonialism thing, is really more of a liberal issue, and washington state is very liberal.

As far as "right," what do you think would happen if say, to help these people everyone in the US had to take a 2% pay cut, do you think they would do it? People generally only want to help the welfare of others if its not going to directly affect them, that way they get to act like they did something right. In reality they are just hiding the fact that they are just as selfish as everyone else.

[gandalf]

Joe McCarthy 47

" We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume."

You pretty much poison the planet , chimicals , OGM ...

The problem is Capitalism uses Earth to make money : vampirism .

As for the famine in Ethiopia ... I will only have a cup of tea
between lunch and dinner to show my compassion .

[Boudica]

Joe McCarthy 47

" We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume."

You pretty much poison the planet , chimicals , OGM ...

The problem is Capitalism uses Earth to make money : vampirism .

As for the famine in Ethiopia ... I will only have a cup of tea
between lunch and dinner to show my compassion .

:rolleyes: Of course..

[Joe McCarthy]

Joe McCarthy 47

" We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume."

You pretty much poison the planet , chimicals , OGM ...

The problem is Capitalism uses Earth to make money : vampirism .

As for the famine in Ethiopia ... I will only have a cup of tea
between lunch and dinner to show my compassion .

Amazing how people are living longer and eating better while America poisons the planet with surplus food and medical advances.

[Albion]

We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume.

I would say Russia is more important. America's food surplus depends on a lot of livestock and animal feeds from South America and Brazil.


The climate is changing, and land is being over used, its a reality in agriculture. We also have a rising chinese class, that is demanding better food, same in india.

Indeed, soils are becoming impoverished. I believe in the theory which basically states "give a little, take a little" - animals in nature consume plants and manure the land - modern farming has taken that away.
We never had such bad problems with soil degradation before. People believe throwing chemicals at the soil fixes the problem, all that does is depletes finite amounts of minerals which we should be saving.


As it was mentioned before, Iceland had a harsh climate and was a traditionally poor country, their birthrate was much lower. The fault is on the africans themselves. In a country that cannot support many people, you simply don't have 7 children per women, which is the rate in nigeria atm. It's most certainly is their fault, and theirs alone.

:thumb001: Exactly.


What they forget is that Zimbabwe was one of the most developed countries in africa, under UK colonialism, when they got freedom in the 80's they kicked all the white farms out, or killed them, and ran the country into the ground in less than 10 years.

True. I hate the old argument that colonialism ruined the world when in fact many Africans are begging for it back because life was better under European rule.


You pretty much poison the planet , chimicals , OGM ...

America and the German scientist who came up with the bright idea of chemical fertilisers and pesticides.

[BeerBaron]

Joe McCarthy 47

" We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume."

You pretty much poison the planet , chimicals , OGM ...

The problem is Capitalism uses Earth to make money : vampirism .

As for the famine in Ethiopia ... I will only have a cup of tea
between lunch and dinner to show my compassion .

A parisian is blaming the US, totally unheard of.

You're right capitalism is the problem, you should move on over to whats left of the eastern bloc and see how great communism worked:rolleyes:

[Joe McCarthy]

A parisian is blaming the US, totally unheard of.

You're right capitalism is the problem, you should move on over to whats left of the eastern bloc and see how great communism worked:rolleyes:

He sort of encapsulated what has been wrong with Paris for the last 140 years in one brief post.

[Albion]

A parisian is blaming the US, totally unheard of.

You're right capitalism is the problem, you should move on over to whats left of the eastern bloc and see how great communism worked:rolleyes:

God damn it, it's the east European plain which is the breadbasket of the world. It is said that Ukraine could feed the whole of Europe on its own if it ever gets its act together and intensifies.

Production of Wheat (a key Western staple):


EU as a whole
China
India
Russia
USA
France
Canada
Germany
Pakistan
Australia
Ukraine


How long can California and the Western states support agriculture? Not long I'd imagine, you're already stealing water from Mexico and an unfair share of the Rio Grande which is fast becoming a puddle and usually doesn't reach the sea any more...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/68/20061108051151!Desertification_map.png
Notice how all but a speck of Somali is already desert and the speck is at high risk? And yet they continue to breed like rabbits although they can barely grow food.

http://www.grid.unep.ch/product/publication/freshwater_europe/images/desert_vuln_map.jpg

[Sahson]

Some of the most essential produce.

Soy Bean


1. USA 80.5 million tons
2. Brazil 59.9 million tons
3. Argentina 48.2 million tons
4. China 15.5 million tons
5. India 9.0 million tons


Rye


1. EU 9.2 million tons
2. Russia 3.6 million tons
3. Poland 3.4 million tons
4. Germany 2.8 million tons
5. Belarus 1.2 million tons
6. Ukraine 1.1 million tons
7. China 0.6 million tons
8. Canada eh? 0.4 million tons
9. Turkey 0.2 million tons
10. USA 0.2 million tons
10. Austria 0.2 million tons


Yes a country smaller than than England produces the same amount of Rye as USA lol.

Maize


1. USA 333 million
2. China 163.1 million
3. Brazil 51.23 million
4. Mexico 20.2 million
5. Indonesia 17.63 million
6. India 17.3 million
7. France 15.3 million
8. Argentina 13.12 million
9. South Africa 12.05 million
10. Ukraine 10.49 million


Barley


1. EU 57.7 million
2. Russia 15.7 million
3. Canada eh? 11.8 million
4. Spain 11.7 million
5. Germany 11 million
6. France 9.5 million
7. Turkey 7.4 million
8. Ukraine 6 million
9. Australia 5.9 million
10. UK 6.1 million
11. USA 4.6 million

Linseed


1. Canada eh? 633,500 tons
2. China 480,000 tons
3. India 167,000 tons
4. USA 149,963 tons
5. Ethiopia 67,000 tons


Oats


1. EU 8.7 million
2. Russia 5.1 million
3. Canada eh? 3.3 million
4. USA 1.7 million
5. Poland 1.3 million
6. Finland 1.2 million
7. Australia 1.1 million
8. Germany 1 million
9. Belarus .8 million
10. China .8 million
10. Ukraine .8 million


Sunflower seeds


1. Russia 6.3 million tons
2. Ukraine 4.7 million tons
3. Argentina 3.7 million tons
4. China 1.9 million tons
5. India 1.9 million tons
6. USA 1.8 million tons
7. France 1.5 million tons
8. 1.3 million tons
9. România 1.3 million tons
10. Turkey 1 million tons
11. Bulgaria .9 million tons


not sure if i'm trying to illustrate a point here or not...

[Loki]

So what happens when the Somalis who are rescued from starvation continue to breed at the same rate, and their society is that much further away from self-sufficiency? Does the UK send £1b? What about the next generation? And the next?

Better to let things return to the natural state of affairs as swiftly as possible. Less people will die in the long run, and already broke Western governments won't dig themselves further in the hole.

Do you realise that wealthier and better-off people breed less? It is a natural state of affairs - those who struggle to survive have way more children to give their offspring better chances. In ALL countries that have become more prosperous, birthrates have slowed down. That was in Europe, Japan and also in China now.

[Albion]

Soy Bean


1. USA 80.5 million tons
2. Brazil 59.9 million tons
3. Argentina 48.2 million tons
4. China 15.5 million tons
5. India 9.0 million tons


Soy beans in excessive amounts are bad for men, they lead to build up of oestrogen - the feminising hormone - maybe that is why East Asia has a lot of feminine men.
It can also lead to prostrate cancer. I would never use it as a staple. It's okay in small amounts I suppose though.


Rye


1. EU 9.2 million tons
2. Russia 3.6 million tons
3. Poland 3.4 million tons
4. Germany 2.8 million tons
5. Belarus 1.2 million tons
6. Ukraine 1.1 million tons
7. China 0.6 million tons
8. Canada eh? 0.4 million tons
9. Turkey 0.2 million tons
10. USA 0.2 million tons
10. Austria 0.2 million tons


Rye is pretty useless, not used for much apart from Alcohol these days and dark breads, that is why not much is grown in England any more - only really grown around Kent.


Barley


1. EU 57.7 million
2. Russia 15.7 million
3. Canada eh? 11.8 million
4. Spain 11.7 million
5. Germany 11 million
6. France 9.5 million
7. Turkey 7.4 million
8. Ukraine 6 million
9. Australia 5.9 million
10. UK 6.1 million
11. USA 4.6 million


Same as Rye.


Oats


1. EU 8.7 million
2. Russia 5.1 million
3. Canada eh? 3.3 million
4. USA 1.7 million
5. Poland 1.3 million
6. Finland 1.2 million
7. Australia 1.1 million
8. Germany 1 million
9. Belarus .8 million
10. China .8 million
10. Ukraine .8 million


Scotland's traditional staple. Good for growing in cool, damp climates where not much else does so well.
Too undervalued, probably because not a great lot can be made from it.


Sunflower seeds


1. Russia 6.3 million tons
2. Ukraine 4.7 million tons
3. Argentina 3.7 million tons
4. China 1.9 million tons
5. India 1.9 million tons
6. USA 1.8 million tons
7. France 1.5 million tons
8. 1.3 million tons
9. România 1.3 million tons
10. Turkey 1 million tons
11. Bulgaria .9 million tons


I wouldn't call them a staple, more a health food / source of vitamins and minerals and flavouring. There's also the oil of course.

[rhiannon]

We pretty much feed the planet. We produce more food than we consume.

To produce the food, we also consume MOST of the planet's fossil fuels...:coffee:

Not to mention that Americans EAT MORE than everyone else on the planet:noidea:

[Albion]

To produce the food, we also consume MOST of the planet's fossil fuels...:coffee:

Not to mention that Americans EAT MORE than everyone else on the planet:noidea:

..and that many of the elements in chemical fertiliser and pesticides are imported and feed for livestock imported.

[Treffie]

To produce the food, we also consume MOST of the planet's fossil fuels...:coffee:

Not to mention that Americans EAT MORE than everyone else on the planet:noidea:

China edges the US into 2nd place

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_world_map_de obfuscated.png

[Eldritch]

We HAVE the technology NOW to feed EVERY STINKING person on this planet.

Perhaps, I'm no expert. And then when you try to, you get results like this:

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/watson_1435-jpg.jpeg?w=300&h=451

It's absurd to suggest that the perpetual humanitarian disaster these people are living in is all "our" fault.

[Supreme American]

To produce the food, we also consume MOST of the planet's fossil fuels...:coffee:

Actually, I think this may go to China.

Keep in mind, much of the planet is without motorized transportation, so simply saying that we consume so much fossil fuel really isn't saying much.

[Supreme American]

The problem is Capitalism uses Earth to make money : vampirism .

Where else is an economy going to come from? Any economy depends on the earth and what it produces. I'm not sure I see your point, here.

[Supreme American]

You're right capitalism is the problem, you should move on over to whats left of the eastern bloc and see how great communism worked:rolleyes:

The one good thing about communism is that immigration was unheard of. There are no corrupt, self-centered business people wanting to avoid paying local labor and instead importing the dirt poor and desperate to take advantage of and then dump on the local population by the millions. Economically, Eastern Europe is a basketcase, but it's also the racially healthiest part of Europe, in terms of foreign penetration.

[Jon Snow]

Well, I happen to believe in freedom to express opinions, no matter how controversial; although even I generally agree with exceptions (no "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater", no slander or libel, "clear and present danger" in the speech inciting civil disorder [that'd be Inciting a Riot], death threats, etc.).

But generally, merely expressing the view that you don't want certain people in your territory doesn't rise to that level. One of the great prices of free speech - you have to allow others' views to be expressed (within the limits I just mentioned).

EVEN SO, People have the right to express that view, and those who disagree with it have the right to challenge it. I'm not going to force people to think a certain way (as though that's possible!), but I'm sure going to challenge such b.s. statements like the ones saying "Africans dying of famine is a good thing".

No, but you'll call people "uncivilized", say that they "disgust" you, and imply that they're inhuman (all from your post on page 3). Disagreement is fine; just realize that many of the views you hold would be met by similar emotionally-driven rejection by a large part of the populace.


Do you realise that wealthier and better-off people breed less? It is a natural state of affairs - those who struggle to survive have way more children to give their offspring better chances. In ALL countries that have become more prosperous, birthrates have slowed down. That was in Europe, Japan and also in China now.

Well, sure--but that proves my own point, not yours.

Foreign aid money (what doesn't end up in the hands of warlords, that is), goes primarily toward feeding Africans. Little and less is geared toward creating a sustainable model for advancing their society; and even if it did, there would be no difference. Africans left to their own devices are simply unable at this stage to develop beyond a tribal hunter-gatherer lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with that--it's what their culture and biology has evolved toward. We shouldn't--can't--force modernity on them.

So, again, you'll just have more people who should have died living, and bringing more hungry mouths into the world than there would otherwise have been. The problem intensifies, as less resources are spread over a great population. How anyone fails to see this is utterly beyond me. :noidea:


Perhaps, I'm no expert. And then when you try to, you get results like this:

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/watson_1435-jpg.jpeg?w=300&h=451

It's absurd to suggest that the perpetual humanitarian disaster these people are living in is all "our" fault.

Payback for colonialism, expression of cultural unrest, not enough aid from the West, ad nauseum. :coffee:

[Phil75231]

Except that he was wrong. We have more people, less famine, and better dietary standards than we ever have.

Malthus was wrong: Well, both yes and no.

Yes in that he failed to see the scientific and technical advances in agriculture that enable larger yields per unit area. This allows us to feed many more people with that same plot of land (although I don't blame him for missing this, as he was trapped in the 18th century).

No in that it is true that we can grow only so much food on any given area of land. Given that the earth has finite resources because it's a finite mass, then it stands to reason that Malthus's assertions do hold true at a certain point (although technical and scientific advances have pushed the Malthus Limit upward. Just how far upward that can be pushed is anybody's guess).

[Joe McCarthy]

To produce the food, we also consume MOST of the planet's fossil fuels...:coffee:


Erm, how else are we going to transport food, by horse and buggy?

Few may realize this but just as British power was based on navigation, railroads, and industrialism, American power is based on oil and the internal combustion engine. Had we not secured oil access in the Middle East in the 60s the Soviets would have and then we'd have a Communist world instead of American gluttons, who in their evil ways like to eat and drive vehicles. Would that be preferable?

[Sahson]

Erm, how else are we going to transport food, by horse and buggy?

Few may realize this but just as British power was based on navigation, railroads, and industrialism, American power is based on oil and the internal combustion engine. Had we not secured oil access in the Middle East in the 60s the Soviets would have and then we'd have a Communist world instead of American gluttons, who in their evil ways like to eat and drive vehicles. Would that be preferable?

that seems to the issue in life, Capitalism is caught guilty. When the truth of the matter is it's usually government helps out the big multi-national corporations get a bigger slice of cake.

Communism is anything but desirable. After the way Stalin ruled, trust me no sane man would want that kind of life under such a tyranny, unless you were offered stalin's position, I guess.

We all would love to enjoy a day in the gulags wouldn't we? we would love to starve the farmers, and kill them while they work twice as hard just to feed Moscow and St. Peterburgs.

Capitalism is the best system we have, because it fulfils the first two moral traditions. where the small society can function at it's optimum, and where the extended order of human co-operation is not alienated, from the moral traditions that affect us.

If anything there should be less government intervention, and if there is government intervention, then it should be throughly regulated, guess what comes to mind? The sub-prime mortgage. Yes it was the government who lit the match by the gunpowder, it was only a matter of time...

Government promised to back up this mortgage scheme, and never thought about regulating it. Companies made massive profits off of people, that couldn't afford a mortgage in the first place. You didn't have to put any deposit down, or have a job. Fancy that? yet in the 80's it was law you had to put a 20% deposit down. Go figure.

[The Lawspeaker]

The £600m that the UK currently gives to Pakistan to help them build up their nuclear arsenal would be much better spent helping starving people in Somalia.
It would be much better spent on helping British disabled, British children and British elderly.

[Magister Eckhart]

Except that he was wrong. We have more people, less famine, and better dietary standards than we ever have.

We do not have more people, we have less. In addition, as more immigrants flood the Eurosphere, famine grows in the so-called "first world". Just look at the United States, where people are now having trouble (http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-18/us/hungry.kids_1_feed-children-families-annual-report?_s=PM:US) feeding their kids (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/17/millions-hungry-households-us-report).


As for anyone claiming that Americans aren't starving or that we have the resources to feed everyone on the planet: these "humanitarians" are just ignorant. Between the complete social and economic collapse any attempt to "feed the world" would cause, the fact that many people in our own countries are starving, there are simply too many realities for this idiotic pie-in-the-sky "feed the world" humanitarian nonsense to ever work. It's the child of an unrealistic, even anti-Western mind.

Furthermore, Malthus was right, and the overpopulation being caused by Negro breeding habits has the inevitable effect of starvation. Human beings, while we have our humanity and souls that elevated us above animals, ultimately do rely on a very animal body to survive. As such, just as nature corrects animal populations, it also corrects populations of Homo sapiens. Without leftist, childish meddling, the Somalian problem will solve itself.

[rhiannon]

Perhaps, I'm no expert. And then when you try to, you get results like this:

http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/watson_1435-jpg.jpeg?w=300&h=451

It's absurd to suggest that the perpetual humanitarian disaster these people are living in is all "our" fault.

I'm not sure what is going on in that photograph.....but it is very disturbing. :eek:

[Sahson]

I'm not sure what is going on in that photograph.....but it is very disturbing. :eek:

They found some food to eat.

[rhiannon]

China edges the US into 2nd place

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_world_map_de obfuscated.png

That must be a recent development. However, keep in mind relative population size...

We have them beat cold if you are examining data on a per capita basis...

[rhiannon]

They found some food to eat.

They're getting ready to cannibalize that poor guy???

Holy fuck....

[Sahson]

Incase some of you didn't know about this... This knowledge is relatively old, i thought everyone knew this.


Somalia: Desperate Citizens resort to selling food aid for survival.



After images of dying and dehydrated Somali children were beamed across television screens around the world, humanitarian aid organizations and individuals touched by their plight moved into action to avert the problem. Food aid was delivered to parts of the troubled nation. In just a few months, news reports about food donations being sold in shops and local markets in Somalia have emerged. One could conclude that aid is not arriving at the intended destination. But certain individuals decide out of need to sell the food rations that they've received.

Fatuma Abdi can barely stand up. The 83 year old has been bed-ridden for more than a month at Bulla Hawa in the Gedo region of Somalia. The elderly lady is diabetic and the situation is complicated by the lack of food. She is haggard looking and has veins protruding out of her weak arms.

Fatuma is also the bread winner for her four grand children; children whose parents perished under the showers of bullets during a ferocious exchange of fire between the Transitional Federal Government and al-Shabaab over the control of the border town Bulla Hawa.

Kiosk

Bulla Hawa is a small town on the border between Kenya and Somalia. "I used to operate a small kiosk my late son left behind and from the proceeds I was able to feed my grandchildren for a few months. But because we didn't have any other income, the business collapsed. From that moment my diabetes got worse. My grandchildren are aged between 9-3 years."

Fatuma, however, has had a reprieve this past week. Food aid has arrived in neighbouring Mandera, a town in Kenya that's less than a kilometer from her house.

At the crack of dawn, the elderly lady gathered all her strength and made her way to Boys town primary school, the distribution venue. The food donations are courtesy of a Qatar based non-Governmental Organisation.

"The border is closed so I will have to use a different route, the one used by smugglers to get to Mandera. I hope they give us a good amount of food because I will sell some to get money," Fatuma told Radio Netherlands Worldwide.

Hunger

Fatuma joined hundreds of people who received the news. By midday the numbers swell to over 15,000 people - all hungry and in dire need of help.

After much pushing and shoving, Fatuma managed to get hold of 50 kilos of rice, dates, 50 kilos of white flour, 3 liters' of cooking oil and 3 packets of long life milk. Minutes later, Fatuma was in negotiations with a businessman who was buying food from 'willing' sellers right on the doorstep of the school.

"I am sick and I need treatment. I have sold the rice and dates to this businessman so that I can use the money to buy medicine and milk for my children," elaborates Fatuma.

Nothing new

For 65 year old Mohamud Ali, selling food aid is not anything new to report. According to him, the needs of people are different and shouldn't be used as an excuse to cut aid.

"Only God can solve our problems but I will urge NGOs and Governments to help us. They should look at humanity and give us something to survive on." pointing his fingers at food aid for sale at the Mandera market.

Aid organizations say it's nearly impossible to monitor the sale of food aid.

This is the worst drought Somalia has experienced over the last 60 years. The UN says more than 3.2 million people in Somalia need food aid.

For now the people of this broken country, receive and sell food aid.

Source (http://allafrica.com/stories/201108190809.html)


UN investigates theft and sale of Somalia famine food aid.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2011/8/15/1313433068051/somali-refugees-queue-for-007.jpg



Thousands of sacks of food aid meant for famine victims are being stolen and sold at markets in neighbourhoods where children in refugee camps do not have enough to eat.

The UN's World Food Programme (WFP) acknowledged it had been investigating food theft in Somalia for two months. WFP officials said the "scale and intensity" of the famine crisis did not allow for a suspension of assistance, which would lead to "many unnecessary deaths".

And the aid is not even safe once it has been distributed to families huddled in the makeshift camps popping up around the capital. Families at the government-run Badbado camp said they were often forced to hand back aid after journalists had taken photos of them with it.

Ali Said Nur said he received two sacks of maize twice, but each time was forced to give one to the camp leader.

"You don't have a choice. You have to simply give without an argument to be able to stay here," he said.

The UN says more than 3.2 million Somalis – nearly half the population – need food aid after a severe drought that has been complicated by Somalia's long-running war. More than 450,000 Somalis live in famine zones controlled by militants linked to al-Qaida, where aid is difficult to deliver. The US says 29,000 Somali children under the age of five have already died.

Officials have expected some of the food aid pouring into Somalia to go missing. But the sheer scale of the theft taking place calls into question aid groups' ability to reach starving people. It also raises concerns about the willingness of aid agencies and the Somali government to fight corruption, and whether diverted aid is fuelling the country's 20-year-civil war.

"While helping starving people, you are also feeding the power groups that make a business out of the disaster," said Joakim Gundel, head of Katuni Consult, a Nairobi-based company that evaluates international aid efforts in Somalia. "You're saving people's lives today so they can die tomorrow."

The WFP Somalia director, Stefano Porretti, said the agency's system of independent, third-party monitors uncovered allegations of possible food diversion. But he underscored how dangerous the work is: WFP has had 14 employees killed in Somalia since 2008.

"Monitoring food assistance in Somalia is a particularly dangerous process." In Mogadishu markets, vast piles of food sacks are for sale with stamps on them from the WFP, the US government aid arm USAID and the Japanese government. AP found eight sites where aid food was being sold in bulk and in numerous smaller stores. Among the items being sold were corn, grain and Plumpy'nut – a specially fortified peanutbutter designed for starving children.

An official in Mogadishu with extensive knowledge of the food trade said he believed a massive amount of aid was being stolen – perhaps up to half of aid deliveries – by unscrupulous businessmen. The percentage had been lower, he said, but the flood of aid into the capital in recent weeks with little or no controls had created a bonanza for businessmen.

At one of the sites for stolen food aid, about a dozen corrugated iron sheds are stacked with sacks. Outside, women sell food from 50kg (110lb) sacks, and traders load the food on to carts or vehicles in full view of local officials.

Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/15/un-theft-somalia-food-aid)

[European blood]

The horn of Africa a place where Stealing is worse than Killing.

Sickening: 2 Thieves Stealing A Sack Of Potatoes In Kenya & Get Burned In Fire (*Warning* Graphic)

http://www.worldstaruncut.com/uncut/35476

[rhiannon]

They found some food to eat.

They could use a little seasoning....

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15446&stc=1&d=1316423973

[SwordoftheVistula]

Country with least food in the world has one of the highest birthrates in the world-more 6 children per woman. WTF is wrong with these people, if you're in a famine where you can't even find food to feed yourself, you sure as hell should not be having 6 or 7 kids.

[Tony]

I feel like a heartless bastard for writing this, but I don't see this as bad news. In fact, it feels quite the opposite.
I don't care a fig about them but I'd really feel good if it were the more archaic negroes from Zaire, Nigeria, Sierra Leona etc who starveed to death.
At least Somalis are mostly horner typed, like their neighbours Eritreans and Ethiopians i.e more progressive types.

Except that he was wrong. We have more people, less famine, and better dietary standards than we ever have.
We who?

How can you conclude that? He hasn't been proved wrong yet because populations have continued to rise, he could be right yet.



We have enough agriculture to feed the world if:


Everyone adopts a vegetarian diet, there'd be a huge surplus of food since raising meat on land and crops which could be grown for humans is a lot less efficient
If people just ate less meat there'd be more grain to feed people. Even the low-grade grain used in animal feed would not be turned down in Africa.
The arable agricultural area could be doubled, however this would be at the expense of everything else and would mostly be in the Northern hemisphere anyway (the rich hemisphere)


ahahaha so I should be forced to turn vegetarian or even vegan in order to support enough food production for third worlders who breed like rabbits despite their extreme misery?
hell no!

I'd turn only if it's good for my health.

Btw that of Somalia is an intersting case of mixing stuff:
political anarchy
muslim militias
piracy
thirld world birth patterns
emigration
economic boom

yes, it's probably going unnoticed but also Somalia is a growin' economy, for her it's working what Reagan said 30 years ago, "the less government, the better the economy".

from Wiki:


Somalia now offers some of the most technologically advanced and competitively priced telecommunications and internet services in the world.[12] After the start of the civil war, various new telecommunications companies began to spring up and compete to provide missing infrastructure. Funded by Somali entrepreneurs and backed by expertise from China, Korea and Europe, these nascent telecommunications firms offer affordable mobile phone and internet services that are not available in many other parts of the continent. Customers can conduct money transfers and other banking activities via mobile phones, as well as easily gain wireless internet access.[13]

After forming partnerships with multinational corporations such as Sprint, ITT and Telenor, these firms now offer the cheapest and clearest phone calls in Africa.[6] Installation time for a landline is just three days, while in Kenya to the south, waiting lists are many years long.[14] These Somali telecommunication companies also provide services to every city, town and hamlet in Somalia. There are presently around 25 mainlines per 1,000 persons, and the local availability of telephone lines (tele-density) is higher than in neighboring countries; three times greater than in adjacent Ethiopia.[10] Prominent Somali telecommunications companies include Golis Telecom Group, Hormuud Telecom, Somafone, Nationlink, Netco, Telcom and Somali Telecom Group. Hormuud Telecom alone grosses about $40 million a year. To dampen competitive pressures, three of these companies signed an interconnectivity deal in 2005 that allows them to set prices and expand their networks.[13]
Investment in the telecom industry is one of the clearest signs that Somalia's economy has continued to grow despite the ongoing civil strife in parts of the southern half of the country.[13]

As of 2005, there were also 20 privately-owned Somali newspapers, 12 radio and television stations, and numerous internet sites offering information to the public. Several local satellite-based television services transmit international news stations, such as CNN.[6] In addition, one of Somalia's upstart media firms recently established a partnership with the BBC.[6]

Somalia have sun, beaches, Caucasoid blood, young population, low density, if they were only able to get rid of Islamists they would probably outgrow north African countries and be preceded by only Nigeria, Angola, Botswana and South Africa.

[Hevneren]

I think most of what's been on my mind concerning the subject of this thread, has already been mentioned. I think I've reached a point where I've kind of given up on Somalia and these other African hellholes. By that, I don't mean to say that I think it's OK that children starve to death, but you hear about famines over and over again in these same regions, and no matter how much money and food is given, this still happens.

I guess I'm seeing at least two sides to this issue. Yes, colonialism has had an impact on Africa. However, most African countries have had at least 3-4 decades as independent countries, and none of them have been doing very well. Then again, Western companies have exploited people in the Third World, including Africa, and African countries have even paid Westerners for fake HIV/AIDS medication, lining the pockets of rich people while severely sick people were given placebo pills made up of sugar or chalk.

Does the West have a responsibility for Somalia? Not collectively, or in particular, no. I think the former colonial masters may have a responsibility for their former colonies, but not indefinitely. At some point, a nation must be able to help itself, and Somalia - which doesn't even have a centralised government - isn't doing that.

Somalia is a place where civilisation comes to die. I don't think many people can remember a Somalia that wasn't an utter basket case politically or economically. Frankly, I can't think of one single redeeming quality about Somalia or the Somalian culture, and even immigrants in Norway have a negative view of Somalians here.

While I don't think it's right to call Somalians animals or to be happy because they're starving, I must confess that I have a very low opinion of Somalians and Somalia as a whole. Their behaviour in Norway and other countries isn't exactly reassuring, considering they're at the top among criminal offenders, they're notorious as pirates, and they've proven incapable of doing what most nations on Earth do: running a government.

As for aid, I think it's short-sighted to simply send money or food. Western countries are effectively keeping Third World businesses from competing with their products. Simply sending Africans food can be detrimental to local businesses as well, who can't compete with free food from the West. So, instead of flooding their markets with free food, why not encourage business growth by supporting local businesses, education, investing in their businesses and letting them export their goods to us?

[Don]

Country with least food in the world has one of the highest birthrates in the world-more 6 children per woman. WTF is wrong with these people, if you're in a famine where you can't even find food to feed yourself, you sure as hell should not be having 6 or 7 kids.

If you don't value the life of children -or young humans- as Europeans do... maybe it is easiest to understand their position.

As I told, the life of every children that suffers in Africa is more important for most europeans than for their own parents, the true responsibles.
Many cultures don't value the early human life as we do.

In the other hand "we" are teaching them (like many others) that they are not responsible of what happens to any of their 12 children they have (and these cool touris... I mean ngo volunteers dare to say they help them?).

"If 8 of them die of wars and famine, is responsability of that european thousands of kms away that is having dificulties in having the second children his own since he has just been fired from the office... "

If he is guilty of something, he is just of tolerating this bullshit that is commonly accepted, that makes him responsable of the lack of sense, selfcontrol and love for their children the Somalis have.
That is the true responsability and error of the common western citizen: Accept these Accusations.

I don't bite anymore. I don't suffer when I see an starvating children. I only feel dislike for their cruel and selfish somali parents and these westerners that made this possible not preventing them from having more children or teaching them to respect and love the children as we do... but to reinforce and justify their senseless and vicious circle of massive breeding in an hostile environment. "That guy of Spain or France is the responsible if anything happens to any of your 9 children, not you! You are just a poor "negra victim"". Ah! The paradox!


And, after all this, they even dare to say day after day that we are the guilty ones for their senseless, immature and selfish carnage.

Amazing.

[Don]

Do you remember these poor somali children these women had without control or responsability and our nations feed accusing us of being the responsibles of that?


Ah... these are the "excedents" we were feeding in the 80s...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41319000/jpg/_41319510_01somalia_afp.jpg

http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/somalis-minn.jpg?w=300&h=233&h=233

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8016/shabaab1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VcScgvM0uVo/S-Fd95_cPKI/AAAAAAAAHr8/A3RS6059TrE/s400/mujaahidiiiiiiin.jpg

http://www.pdngallery.com/20years/photojournalism/images/22_paul_watson.jpg

We are the responsibles... indeed.

[Kleofas]

I don't feel bad for the cockroaches when the exterminator comes by, so I'm finding it hard to understand why that makes you heartless. Somalia hasn't exactly shown itself to be a bastion of humanity and civilisation in recent geological epochs, and somehow I doubt that shortcoming is going to change much in the next millennia or two.

Indeed, this sob story speaks to a vast improvement among Western nations: perhaps we are starting to wise-up at least a little and take care of our own before rending our clothes at the sorrows of foreigners and animals, especially the overpopulated Negro.


Thousands of women, children and innocent people living under the rule of warlords deserve better than dying of starvation, cholera or malaria. Do you know what is like to die of cholera?

You have done nothing to be born in the US and not having to deal with such living conditions. And you might tell otherwise, but I doubt you ever have contributed to the progress and improving of human species anymore than the next "negro" . Yet I would not celebrate if you were to die a horrible death, I would actually be horrified as I am to see what's happening in Somalia, or as I am when I see what goes on with Russian children.

Interestingly enough, nobody seemed to care to debate or even comment on he thread I opened yesterday about the over-a-million street children roaming the streets of Russia since the Kremlin embraced free-market .

[Kleofas]

Do you remember these poor somali children these women had without control or responsability and our nations feed accusing us of being the responsibles of that?


Ah... these are the "excedents" we were feeding in the 80s...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41319000/jpg/_41319510_01somalia_afp.jpg

http://barenakedislam.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/somalis-minn.jpg?w=300&h=233&h=233

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8016/shabaab1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VcScgvM0uVo/S-Fd95_cPKI/AAAAAAAAHr8/A3RS6059TrE/s400/mujaahidiiiiiiin.jpg

http://www.pdngallery.com/20years/photojournalism/images/22_paul_watson.jpg

We are the responsibles... indeed.


Did not know Somali warlords produced their own AK's and weaponry . Though all the time they bought them from foreign mafias , when not directly from western weapon retailers , in exchange often for the resources obtained through slave work of other people (such is the case in Congo, although I do not know if the arid lands of Somalia have still anything shinny enough to decorate Brussels jewlery shops. .) Because being all negroes does not mean that they think of each other as a kin (specially when we are talking of a land ruled by warlords and pirates) , as much as white men have not proven to be "racially aware" when it came to enslave other white people if needed to do so (As it still happens today).

[Kleofas]

Famine hits Somali every ten bloody years because the people breed like rabbits in a region which is already semi-desert, dirt poor and can support few people (carrying capacity).

Honestly, if Europeans lived there under the same conditions they'd have the sense not to bring more kids into such a world. Yet that is what we see time after time in Africa, dumb fucks breeding like there's no tommorow and then they wonder why they're fucked in a famine.



That is utter nonsense

So how do you think we've made it until today? or do you think that Europe wasn't hit by atrocious disasters, famines , horrible diseases , warlords up until the 20th century? even today we still have some pretty fucked up areas which are precisely were people "breed" more heavily.

Just so you know, the tendency of stagnant demographic growth solely appears in societies where hunger , war and disease have stopped to be a major cause of death.

[Beorn]

People need to cry moar!

[Han Cholo]

Somalia should be judged by its own standards and not by external ones. What the west wrongly calls "starvation" is just their long time diet. They live in a desert condition and have bodies adapted to extreme heat and famine. They don't need support. They can always cannibalize if they're starving (after all it's not an unknown practice to them.) or re-sell their AK-47s.

What would happen to them if there were no superpowers to help them? I don't wish them to starve but it seems they will never progress, no matter how much money is sent.

[Eldritch]

I'm not sure what is going on in that photograph.....but it is very disturbing. :eek:

Haven't you ever seen Black Hawk Down? ;)

(I should have remembered to put that picture between "spoiler" tags, like I usually do to disturbing images, sorry about that)

Anyway here's (http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/u-s-marine-dragged-through-mogadishu/) some info.

[Albion]

ahahaha so I should be forced to turn vegetarian or even vegan in order to support enough food production for third worlders who breed like rabbits despite their extreme misery?
hell no!

Could doesn't mean should. Don't get me wrong, I'am no advocate. Meat is too tasty. :D


Somalia have sun, beaches, Caucasoid blood, young population, low density, if they were only able to get rid of Islamists they would probably outgrow north African countries and be preceded by only Nigeria, Angola, Botswana and South Africa.

A few drops of Caucasian blood diluted / muddied by Negroid blood doesn't make a good racial composition.
Somali will forever be a shit hole because of it's people and it's land.


Did not know Somali warlords produced their own AK's and weaponry

If they weren't sold them they'd steal them. If they didn't steal them they'd use rocks, stones and maybe primitive spears or slingshots if they've mastered such technology yet (am I being sarcastic?? :D).


That is utter nonsense

You are utter nonsense, liberal.


So how do you think we've made it until today? or do you think that Europe wasn't hit by atrocious disasters, famines , horrible diseases , warlords up until the 20th century?

The difference being that Europeans didn't totally regress into constant anarchy like Somalis.

What have horrible diseases got to do with the state of their society?

[Magister Eckhart]

Thousands of women, children and innocent people living under the rule of warlords deserve better than dying of starvation, cholera or malaria. Do you know what is like to die of cholera?

You have done nothing to be born in the US and not having to deal with such living conditions. And you might tell otherwise, but I doubt you ever have contributed to the progress and improving of human species anymore than the next "negro" . Yet I would not celebrate if you were to die a horrible death, I would actually be horrified as I am to see what's happening in Somalia, or as I am when I see what goes on with Russian children.

Interestingly enough, nobody seemed to care to debate or even comment on he thread I opened yesterday about the over-a-million street children roaming the streets of Russia since the Kremlin embraced free-market .

You use the phrase "innocent people" very loosely if you're talking about Somalia. In fact, I would say you're using the world people loosely in that context. At any rate, who cares who "deserves" what; life and death are not things dealt out to the deserving; if you haven't learned that, you're either a child or an idiot.

What is so, is deemed to be so. Who am I to question nature? Further, what use is it to question that over which none have control (something proven by the fact that all the aid we've sent to Africa over the last forty years has resulted in nothing but them sending AIDS back toward us.)

And what I have done, and continue to do, to preserve and advance an orderly society is completely unknown to you, so this particular strawman must fall flat. Would you like to dip into the Marxist handbook and pull out any more clichés? If so, perhaps your fellow classmates at whatever secondary school you attend could help you.

Children starving in Russia is indeed depressing, since the Russians have proven in the past that they are capable of greater things even than some Western nations have accomplished, let alone the half-apes running about on the Dark Continent. If we had aid to spare, the first place it should go is Russia. Unfortunately, most Western powers have no money to spare in this time of trouble and I doubt very much our situation will improve by helping foreigners. I continue to applaud Western nations for waking up in this time of stress and tribulation and not wasting money on the human refuse in Africa.

[rhiannon]

Haven't you ever seen Black Hawk Down? ;)

(I should have remembered to put that picture between "spoiler" tags, like I usually do to disturbing images, sorry about that)

Anyway here's (http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/u-s-marine-dragged-through-mogadishu/) some info.

Haven't seen the film. Perhaps I should.... Thanks for the info.

[Himera]

Country with least food in the world has one of the highest birthrates in the world-more 6 children per woman. WTF is wrong with these people, if you're in a famine where you can't even find food to feed yourself, you sure as hell should not be having 6 or 7 kids.

I always asked myself this ...

They torture their own kids .

I do give a money every time when I see a poor woman with child(ren), but once, I captured her eye-view , which was saying something like this : " What a hell with a money, what a hell I supose to do with this, can we change places young lady? I wanna be you , I don't know what even to do with this child , I don't know how to treate him!" ...
From then , I really care and recognize when the real man sorrow's yells from eyes ...
I never leave the good ones .....;)

[European blood]

Reminiscent of what Nobel Peace prize laureate Albert Schweitzer allegedly had to say about blacks:

"I have given my life to try to alleviate the sufferings of Africa. There is something that all White men who have lived here like I must learn and know: that these individuals are a sub-race. They have neither the intellectual, mental or emotional abilities to equate or to share equally with White men in any function of our civilization.

I have given my life to try to bring them the advantages which our civilization must offer, but I have become well aware that we must retain this status: the superior and they the inferior. For whenever a white man seeks to live among them as their equals they will either destroy him or devour him.

And they will destroy all of his work. Let White men from anywhere in the world, who come to Africa remember that you must continually retain that status: you the master and they the inferior like children that you help or teach. Never fraternise with them as equals. Never accept them as your social equals or they will devour you. They will destroy you." -- Albert Schweitzer

Throughout history the negro has never been able to produce a food surplus, or even subsistence levels, only more negros ... the resulting starvation and death is natural and perfectly acceptable.

There is no such thing as a functional state set up by negros; the more we allow the invasion of our nations with these negroids, the more such scenes will play out in society, not just shitholes of nigger primitivism.

The greatest thing which separates the races is the brain. The creative white mind will assure our survival while the dregs will founder and starve.

Hunger on a massive scale is just mother nature taking a shit.

She rids herself of the waste.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/1/18/129083369055977159.jpg

[Jon Snow]

Hunger on a massive scale is just mother nature taking a shit.

This is absolutely true, but there are millions and millions of (mostly white/Euro) people who, will never, ever, under any circumstances allow themselves to acknowledge this fact.

Humanism and misguided compassion have become as veils over our people's eyes, obscuring the truth.

[Supreme American]

Haven't you ever seen Black Hawk Down? ;)

That incident is enough reason to nuke Somalia alone, not counting their endless predatorialism of white-owned ships.

[Supreme American]

This is absolutely true, but there are millions and millions of (mostly white/Euro) people who, will never, ever, under any circumstances allow themselves to acknowledge this fact.

Humanism and misguided compassion have become as veils over our people's eyes, obscuring the truth.

I may have said this several pages ago on this thread, but it's worth repeating. If they're "our equals," they can get along without white patronage. Surely Islamic charities can take care of their own?

[The Lawspeaker]

That incident is enough reason to nuke Somalia alone, not counting their endless predatorialism of white-owned ships.
And I don't think that the Chinese or Indians would give a flying fuck if the West did nuke the place to Kingdom Come.