Greeks vs Croats who is more Balkan?

[Crn Volk]

Vote and discuss

[Bosniensis]

Only Orthodox and balkan muslims folk are Balkan people.

Every catholic is westerner in my eyes.

[Mortimer]

Only Orthodox and balkan muslims folk are Balkan people.

Every catholic is westerner in my eyes.

No. Bosnian Croats are definitely very Balkan. I know a few. They look balkan, and live balkan, and think Balkan. Maybe some Croats in some parts of Croatia are western definitely not Balkan Croats from Bosnia. They are no different then muslims or serbs.

[Mortimer]

Both or Neither. Both have Balkan and Non-Balkan aspect and influences. They are not core balkan like Bosnia or Macedonia, but they have both balkan and non-balkan influences. To me the quintessential Balkan is Bosnia. Even more then Serbia.

[Bosniensis]

No. Bosnian Croats are definitely very Balkan. I know a few. They look balkan, and live balkan, and think Balkan. Maybe some Croats in some parts of Croatia are western definitely not Balkan Croats from Bosnia. They are no different then muslims or serbs.

Whoever doesn't have Istanbul as religious capital (muslims and orthodoxes) isn't Balkan, for Balkan is a possession of Istanbul both through religion and political line.

[Mortimer]

Whoever doesn't have Istanbul as religious capital (muslims and orthodoxes) isn't Balkan, for Balkan is a possession of Istanbul both through religion and political line.

Then middle eastern catholics or asian catholics are also western european.

[Finnish Swede]

Croats ...

Greeks are too southern to be Balkans.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Neither. If we go by balkan standards of 3rd world countries like fyrom, Bosnia etc who could insult either of these two countries to put them into the same basket?

If we go by Balkan standards of normal countries like Bulgaria, Serbia etc they are simply too slavic to be any close to Greece and very little affected by central Europe to be close to Croatia


Only Orthodox and balkan muslims folk are Balkan people.

Every catholic is westerner in my eyes.
Greeks are irrelevant to you regardless from what Church they follow

let alone that in Greece native Roman catholic people are not assasined by Orthodox or muslims and vice versa like in ex-yugoslavia, they rather are part of the same nation as much as Orthodox are (on the other hand nobody would see a muslim as Greek)


Croats ...

Greeks are too southern to be Balkans.

The question is trollish. Neither of the two is Balkan

[stellan]

can we please talk about something else this is really getting old

[brennus dux gallorum]

can we please talk about something else this is really getting old

Do you have any idea about Balkan people? People in southwestern-half of Balkans like fyrom were unlucky to not have any real contact with Europe until 1913, thus they didnt experience enlightenment, which is what made them so many negative things, among them being autistic, and a good evidence of how far we are from them

They even have native muslims making a great part of their capitals population. In athens all muslims are post-1980s immigrants from Asia and Africa.

On the other hand i would lie if i said that Bulgarians are 3rd world trash like this, i visit the country more than twice a year, people are ok

[Arsen_]

Starting from school and from everything that is called, the basics of education, for me Croats were a purely Balkan story, and they fully fit my understanding of what the Balkanites are. (To me Balkanites are such a strange and unnatural type of savage and narrow-minded peoples who are ready to willingly and with the big pleasure kill and exterminate their blood relatives and neighbors for the sake of some interests or teachings or religions or other things imposed on them by absolutely alien and distant from them peoples).

As for Greeks, to me Greeks were like a separate story, and they have never been associated with Balkans.

[ModernMaskil]

can we please talk about something else this is really getting old

No, this is The Apricity. Greeks are either Balkan or Arab, there is no middle ground.

[Frowning Man]

What are the criteria for determining a true Balkan?

[brennus dux gallorum]

Dp

[Arsen_]

What are the criteria for determining a true Balkan?

Being blood relatives, yet passionately hating, killing and exterminating each other for sake of aliens.

[MandM]

Being blood relatives, yet passionately hating, killing and exterminating each other for sake of aliens.

Sooo armenia and azerbijan ia a totalt diffrent thing right :rolleyes:

[MandM]

Double post

[Bosniensis]

Dp

What double penetration?

[Mortimer]

Starting from school and from everything that is called, the basics of education, for me Croats were a purely Balkan story, and they fully fit my understanding of what the Balkanites are. (To me Balkanites are such a strange and unnatural type of savage and narrow-minded peoples who are ready to willingly and with the big pleasure kill and exterminate their blood relatives and neighbors for the sake of some interests or teachings or religions or other things imposed on them by absolutely alien and distant from them peoples).

As for Greeks, to me Greeks were like a separate story, and they have never been associated with Balkans.

I like the word "strange unnatural type of savage" hahaha

[Frowning Man]

Being blood relatives, yet passionately hating, killing and exterminating each other for sake of aliens.

They are somewhat similar to us Caucasians, if that's true.
I like the Balkans more and more.
ahahahahaha

[brennus dux gallorum]

What double penetration?

To your turko-slavic majko early in the morning.

[Bosniensis]

To your turko-slavic majko early in the morning.

come on man, why insulting my mother, I've never insulted your mother.

[Moje ime]

Northern Greeks and Southern Croats are both Balkan.

[brennus dux gallorum]

come on man, why insulting my mother, I've never insulted your mother.

You insult me every day from the very first second that you will type in your post the name of an ethnicity for which you know nothing about and with which you have nothing in common: Greeks

On the other hand, dont be so sure that i insulted anyone :)

[Celine]

Northern Greeks and Southern Croats are both Balkan.

Ja sam iznimka koja potvrđuje pravilo.

[Arsen_]

Sooo armenia and azerbijan ia a totalt diffrent thing right :rolleyes:

Azerbijan is semi-mongoloid islamic people with altai language - an absolute antithesis to Armenia. Balkanites are twin brothers compared to difference of Armenia and Azerbijan.

[Moje ime]

Azerbijan is semi-mongoloid islamic people with altai language - an absolute antithesis to Armenia. Balkanites are twin brothers compared to difference of Armenia and Azerbijan.

You are ignorant. Better don't speak things you don't know about.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Northern Greeks and Southern Croats are both Balkan.

Northern Greeks are Greeks, and the part of the nation which has suffered more than anyone in the country

[brennus dux gallorum]

Northern Greeks and Southern Croats are both Balkan.

Northern Greeks are Greeks, and the part of the nation which has suffered more than anyone in the country

[Moje ime]

Northern Greeks are Greeks, and the part of the nation which has suffered more than anyone in the country

Balkan is wherever bagpipes are played. That is my personal criteria for Balkan. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZhMsgSLEYg

[MandM]

you are genetecly close to them,and as you state they are semi-mogoloid and so on thats more or less what ex yugo called echother "turks" and other stuff... besides every corner off this world have there own litle"balkan" :) just depends on what scale there in at the moment, balkan is not perfect we are like the adams family weird to some awsome for others, i recommend you to visit can garantee it will change the way you see us

[Arsen_]

You are ignorant. Better don't speak things you don't know about.

I may be ignorant and do not know all the details but it is absolutely obvious to me that, for example, Serbs and Bosnians or Serbs and Croats are thousand times closer to each other than Azerbijan to Armenia. :)

[brennus dux gallorum]

Balkan is wherever bagpipes are played. That is my personal criteria for Balkan. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZhMsgSLEYg


https://youtu.be/rpBw0oCO4C8
Classical Balkans :D

Seriously now, Greece has a great variety of istruments, like violin:


https://youtu.be/WCII7hvbkWk

Bouzouki:

https://youtu.be/1i2seyckjBo

Clarinet:

https://youtu.be/weThW-PWoJI

Mandolin

https://youtu.be/gcspApycZiE

There is a bagpipe revival, mainly in thrace in northeast Greece, but lower than in the rest of Europe

Thracian bagpipe, with punk rock influences:

https://youtu.be/8rTZsEuJu5c

[Moje ime]

There is a bagpipe revival, mainly in thrace ne Greece, but lower than in the rest of Europe

I know this, that is why I consider rest of Greece Mediterranean country.

No reason to be upset for my opinion. I never insulted Greeks.

[catgeorge]

North Greeks are Balkan supremo. Bless the Thessalian Neolithic the Balkan daddy.

Ο ΜΠΑΜΠΑ ΣΑΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΑΡΕΙΑΝΟΣ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvAOpnnMK0&ab_channel=SUPER3Official

https://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Spread-of-Early-Neolithic-Farming-in-Europe-Resize1.jpg
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dimitrios_Dendrinos/publication/323152968/figure/fig5/AS:593642360152064@1518546776368/Map-of-Early-Neolithic-post-PPNA-B-involving-both-Archeology-and-suggested.png

[Videx]

Neither

[brennus dux gallorum]

North Greeks are Balkan supremo. Bless the Thessalian Neolithic the Balkan daddy.

Ο ΜΠΑΜΠΑ ΣΑΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΑΡΕΙΑΝΟΣ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvAOpnnMK0&ab_channel=SUPER3Official

https://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Spread-of-Early-Neolithic-Farming-in-Europe-Resize1.jpg
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dimitrios_Dendrinos/publication/323152968/figure/fig5/AS:593642360152064@1518546776368/Map-of-Early-Neolithic-post-PPNA-B-involving-both-Archeology-and-suggested.png

He is not ares, he is PAOK

[Moje ime]

I may be ignorant and do not know all the details but it is absolutely obvious to me that, for example, Serbs and Bosnians or Serbs and Croats are thousand times closer to each other than Azerbijan to Armenia. :)

You are so ignorant that you even have no idea what is Bosnian and what is Bosniak.

Bosnian - person from Bosnia. Geographic term. Can be Serb, Muslim, Croat.

Bosniak - Muslim from Bosnia.

Muslim and Christians can't be close, never were, never will be. Moment when Bosniaks received Islam they became traitors and oppressors to us Serbs. They are the ones who start all murders and bad blood we have until these days. That will never change, with last war difference became even more obvious.

[catgeorge]

He is not ares, he is PAOK

Who?

Paok and Albania have one thing in common - the double headed chicken

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/10/23/55/2177890/5/628x471.jpg

[Dušan]

Croats, basically štokavian speaking Croats, who live in green zone are Balkans.
Kajkavian and čakavian are not.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/94/ae/5294aec902a9396a770a46b63b250d26.jpg

Mainland Greeks are Balkans, insular and coastal not.

[Chris596]

Do you have any idea about Balkan people? People in southwestern-half of Balkans like fyrom were unlucky to not have any real contact with Europe until 1913, thus they didnt experience enlightenment, which is what made them so many negative things, among them being autistic, and a good evidence of how far we are from them

They even have native muslims making a great part of their capitals population. In athens all muslims are post-1980s immigrants from Asia and Africa.

On the other hand i would lie if i said that Bulgarians are 3rd world trash like this, i visit the country more than twice a year, people are ok

That's true but Bulgarians aren't even Southwest Balkaners. They are mainly comparable to Romanians if we exclude their Slavic language and identity (mostly).

Culturally Croats definitely belong more to the Balkans, genetically too, while there are regions in Greece with significant Slavic input.

[Arsen_]

You are so ignorant that you even have no idea what is Bosnian and what is Bosniak.

Bosnian - person from Bosnia. Geographic term. Can be Serb, Muslim, Croat.

Bosniak - Muslim from Bosnia.


Okay thanks for explanation but in my defense I can say that it's not me, but Google Translate translated "босняк" for me as a Bosnian. :)

[Blondie]

North Croatia = Central Europe
Dalmatia = South Europe
Greece: South Europe

[Faklon]

Top notch content Sokol, I'm waiting for your new work.

[Ford]

Both in equal measure.

[Moje ime]

Okay thanks for explanation but in my defense I can say that it's not me, but Google Translate translated "босняк" for me as a Bosnian. :)

Because that was the goal for West. To divide Serbs who live outside Serbia is many nations and new states (Montenegro, Kosovo, Bosnia) and to assimilate those Serbs into Bosnians, Montenegrins or "Kosovars" nations.
They invented Bosnian nation and language, Kosovar nation and Montenegrin language. Truth is that Montenegrin and Bosnians speak Serbian language and Kosovar nation does not exists.

[Zeno]

Croats, basically štokavian speaking Croats, who live in green zone are Balkans.
Kajkavian and čakavian are not.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/94/ae/5294aec902a9396a770a46b63b250d26.jpg

Mainland Greeks are Balkans, insular and coastal not.

Not even the mainland bruh. We have some commonalities, but don't call us Balkan only because of some similarities.

[Noble Cuman]

Native Northern Greeks are Balkan. But thousands of migrants from Anatolia settled in Northern Greece after 1924. If you see surnames like -oglou, -idis or surname with Turkish origin they are probably migrants from Anatolia.
North Croats are more Central European. South Croats are Balkan. So both of them partially Balkan. Not proper Balkan.

[Zeno]

Northern Greeks and Southern Croats are both Balkan.

Not even Northern Greeks.

[catgeorge]

Native Northern Greeks are Balkan. But thousands of migrants from Anatolia settled in Northern Greece after 1924. If you see surnames like -oglou, -idis or surname with Turkish origin they are probably migrants from Anatolia.
North Croats are more Central European. South Croats are Balkan. So both of them partially Balkan. Not proper Balkan.

Be quiet idiot.

-oglou and -idis is Black sea/Thracian not Anatolian dopey.

[catgeorge]

Not even Northern Greeks.

Yeah - we are very South Euro our culture doesnt resembles theirs.

[pulstar]

I've ran K means clustering algorithms for (almost) all countries in Europe, and I divided in 6 groups. Based on labels (Pop. Density, Net migration, Infant mortality per 1000, GDP per capita, Phones per 1000, % Arable land, % Crops, % Other, Birthrate, Deathrate, Agriculture, Industry, Services) I got:
1) Group 0: Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia
2) Group 1: Denmark, Iceland, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland
3) Group 2: Andorra, Faroe Islands, Gibralatar, Greece, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Malta, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain
4) Group 3: Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Netherlands, Sweden, UK
5) Group 4: Luxembourg
6) Group 5: Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia

So since group 5 is Balkans I think neither of the two country is Balkan.

[catgeorge]

I've ran K means clustering algorithms for (almost) all countries in Europe, and I divided in 6 groups. Based on labels (Pop. Density, Net migration, Infant mortality per 1000, GDP per capita, Phones per 1000, % Arable land, % Crops, % Other, Birthrate, Deathrate, Agriculture, Industry, Services) I got:
1) Group 0: Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia
2) Group 1: Denmark, Iceland, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland
3) Group 2: Andorra, Faroe Islands, Gibralatar, Greece, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Malta, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain
4) Group 3: Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Netherlands, Sweden, UK
5) Group 4: Luxembourg
6) Group 5: Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia

So since group 5 is Balkans I think neither of the two country is Balkan.

Looks about right.

[Moje ime]

I've ran K means clustering algorithms for (almost) all countries in Europe, and I divided in 6 groups. Based on labels (Pop. Density, Net migration, Infant mortality per 1000, GDP per capita, Phones per 1000, % Arable land, % Crops, % Other, Birthrate, Deathrate, Agriculture, Industry, Services) I got:
1) Group 0: Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia
2) Group 1: Denmark, Iceland, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland
3) Group 2: Andorra, Faroe Islands, Gibralatar, Greece, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Malta, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain
4) Group 3: Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Netherlands, Sweden, UK
5) Group 4: Luxembourg
6) Group 5: Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia

So since group 5 is Balkans I think neither of the two country is Balkan.

Balkan owns it's name to cultural and historical similarities and connections, not to economic statistics.
Northern Romania is not Balkan.

[Moje ime]

In general one similarity exists between Croats and Greeks.

Both hate being called Balkan.

I wonder what exactly is Balkan for them? Something bad?

[catgeorge]

In general one similarity exists between Croats and Greeks.

Both hate being called Balkan.

I wonder what exactly is Balkan for them? Something bad?

Bolsheviks and Commies then later Ethnic Nationalists out of no where... inconsistent, dont know if coming or going..

[Faklon]

Mandolin

https://youtu.be/gcspApycZiE


Sounds like a Mexican band in the South US border singing about horny Latinas.


Here's a modern Greco(Thessalian artist)-Italian cooperation singing about Francis of Assisi.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iSbiqlrgzA&ab_channel=thalassa212

Unfortunately we may not see something similar again in modernity.

[Bosniensis]

Bolsheviks and Commies then later Ethnic Nationalists out of no where... inconsistent, dont know if coming or going..

you don't have such problem because 80% of your population is from everyone (Anatolia, Africa, Cyprus) and you were united with that Ludwig guy.

You can't seriously be called a nation, but rather orthodox community of eastern mediterranean.

We have 1500 years documented history in Bosnia and Balkans, your Greeks don't have 50 years of documented history.

[catgeorge]

you don't have such problem because 80% of your population is from everyone (Anatolia, Africa, Cyprus) and you were united with that Ludwig guy.

You can't seriously be called a nation, but rather orthodox community of eastern mediterranean.

We have 1500 years documented history in Bosnia and Balkans, your Greeks don't have 50 years of documented history.

80% of our population is what lel.

There was 6.5 million Greece in Greece before the population exchange where 1.8 million refugees came to Greece 400k came from Thrace. 650k came from Smyrna (more like Greek islanders than Anatolians) 310k came from Pontus and Caucasus and 500k were genocided by Islamics.

[Tauromachos]

Croats of course!

[Tauromachos]

Croats of course!


In general one similarity exists between Croats and Greeks.

Both hate being called Balkan.

I wonder what exactly is Balkan for them? Something bad?


No we don't hate it but when we talk about core Balkans we see it as something different than Greece
and Croatia is inevitably closer to by any regard.

You have to understand what i mean with different

For example we have alot of similarities with Italians but we are not Italians our selfes neither

Greece and Italy are different too

Greece and South East European countries north of Greece are different



In general one similarity exists between Croats and Greeks.

There is more similarity between Croats and Serbs all the way down wether they like it or not

[Tauromachos]

Both or Neither. Both have Balkan and Non-Balkan aspect and influences. They are not core balkan like Bosnia or Macedonia, but they have both balkan and non-balkan influences. To me the quintessential Balkan is Bosnia. Even more then Serbia.

Croatians are more quintessential Balkan than Greeks its selfevident

[brennus dux gallorum]

Croatians are more quintessential Balkan than Greeks its selfevident

Neither croats nor Greeks are Balkan. The op is from one of the top 5 savage countries of Europe, yet he has achieved to troll both Greeks and Croats. Dont do him the favor and start a Greek-Croatian rivalry here. Croatia is as hostile to us as luxembourgh or tibet is. But if this changes the only result would be to feed the fyromian troll

[Tauromachos]

Neither croats nor Greeks are Balkan. The op is from one of the top 5 savage countries of Europe, yet he has achieved to troll both Greeks and Croats. Dont do him the favor and start a Greek-Croatian rivalry here. Croatia is as hostile to us as luxembourgh or tibet is. But if this changes the only result would be to feed the fyromian troll

Croats are way more than Greeks

Balkan doesn't mean to you need to be Orthodox and being Orthodox doesn't imply you are Balkan

There isn't realy rivalry how can there be

It would be like me asking who is more East Med, Mainland Greeks or Cypriots

[Bosniensis]

Greece was few fishing villages up to 1850.

Nobody even know Greece existed.

Some idiot from Western Europe gave them Thrace, there Greeks never lived in their history.

https://i.imgur.com/5iZXaUG.gif

[Mortimer]

Croatians are more quintessential Balkan than Greeks its selfevident

Croatia has aspects similar to Italy and austria though while Greeks have aspects of albanian even Turkish and Lebanon its not that self evident but it will be interesting to evaluate who is more European or western instead of who is more Balkan

[Tauromachos]

Croatia has aspects similar to Italy and austria though while Greeks have aspects of albanian even Turkish and Lebanon its not that self evident but it will be interesting to evaluate who is more European or western instead of who is more Balkan

So East Mediteranean(Turkey and Lebanon) is Balkan for you

Being part Central European part South is one more reason Croatia is typical Balkan

Between Greece and Balkans there is overlap but asking if its more Balkan than Croatia is ridiculous

Except if you mean by Balkan anything in Europe which is different from North Central and mainstream Western Southern Europe

[brennus dux gallorum]

Croatia has aspects similar to Italy and austria though while Greeks have aspects of albanian even Turkish and Lebanon its not that self evident but it will be interesting to evaluate who is more European or western instead of who is more Balkan

"Croatia has aspects similar to italy" meanwhile Greece, which from cuisine to architecture family types etc is sometimes even identical to south and central italy doesnt have, right? Saying that You really seem to have never been to Greece or know anything about us

If there are countries in Europe relevant to Turkey then Greece is certainly not among them. You can ask any Turk if you want, how Turkish like are MAINLAND Greeks. Albanians are more relevant to you than to us

And hell, WE HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH LEBANON

[Narration]

Greeks.

[Mortimer]

So East Mediteranean(Turkey and Lebanon) is Balkan for you

Being part Central European part South is one more reason Croatia is typical Balkan

Between Greece and Balkans there is overlap but asking if its more Balkan than Croatia is ridiculous

Except if you mean by Balkan anything in Europe which is different from North Central and mainstream Western Southern Europe

He asks who is more Balkan actually asks who is more exotic or less western and that is not that self evident to me but ok Croatia is more Balkan but also more western to me at at the same time if that makes sense

[Zeno]

In general one similarity exists between Croats and Greeks.

Both hate being called Balkan.

I wonder what exactly is Balkan for them? Something bad?

Because by every metric, we are completely different, we only share some, and I repeat some, similarities, we are considered southern Europeans by anyone in the world really, we are much richer than the Balkans speaking for all times, as Greece always had and has 4-10x more GDP per capita and wealth than Balkanites, we have significantly better standard of living and different values. The fact that we only merely share some foods and dances says nothing really.

We are our own kind. Period.

Also, someone please ban Bosniensis, he needs his pills.

[Zeno]

you don't have such problem because 80% of your population is from everyone (Anatolia, Africa, Cyprus) and you were united with that Ludwig guy.

You can't seriously be called a nation, but rather orthodox community of eastern mediterranean.

We have 1500 years documented history in Bosnia and Balkans, your Greeks don't have 50 years of documented history.

You're seriously mentally ill. Not even 20% of our population descends from Asia Minor Greeks as a whole. And even so, most Asia Minor Greeks are not at all different from the Mainlanders.

[Tauromachos]

He asks who is more Balkan actually asks who is more exotic or less western and that is not that self evident to me but ok Croatia is more Balkan but also more western to me at at the same time if that makes sense

Being Balkan for me doesn't has to do with who is the most exotic or least Western

Otherwise Armenians or Georgians would win the bill

Or among Greeks it would Pontic Greeks or Cappadocians lol

[Mortimer]

"Croatia has aspects similar to italy" meanwhile Greece, which from cuisine to architecture family types etc is sometimes even identical to south and central italy doesnt have, right? Saying that You really seem to have never been to Greece or know anything about us

If there are countries in Europe relevant to Turkey then Greece is certainly not among them. You can ask any Turk if you want, how Turkish like are MAINLAND Greeks. Albanians are more relevant to you than to us

And hell, WE HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH LEBANON

Greeks had literally population exchange with turks and southitalian has also a Lebanon aspect ask sikeliot

[Mortimer]

Being Balkan for me doesn't has to do with who is the most exotic or least Western

Otherwise Armenians or Georgians would win the bill

Or among Greeks it would Pontic Greeks or Cappadocians lol

Ok but it does give that connotation ask most users

[brennus dux gallorum]

Greeks had literally population exchange with turks and southitalian has also a Lebanon aspect ask sikeliot

Yes, which means that its the only country around without a Turkish population sporadic. So even less relevant to Turkey

And like i said, south and CENTRAL italy. Lebanon had contacts with italy 4 thousands of years ago. Point remains that bringing the connections of Croatia to Italy when Greece itself had equal connections is funny

[Insuperable]

Sarah Connor is lurking. Brace yourselves.

[Mortimer]

Yes, which means that its the only country around without a Turkish population sporadic. So even less relevant to Turkey

And like i said, south and CENTRAL italy. Lebanon had contacts with italy 4 thousands of years ago. Point remains that bringing the connections of Croatia to Italy when Greece itself had equal connections is funny

Yes but I'm not minoring Greece somehow just saying Croatia is not entirely Balkan I said the same about Greece while Tauromachos said it is self evident that Croatia is quintessential Balkan to me that is not self evidence

[Bosniensis]

Because by every metric, we are completely different, we only share some, and I repeat some, similarities, we are considered southern Europeans by anyone in the world really, we are much richer than the Balkans speaking for all times, as Greece always had and has 4-10x more GDP per capita and wealth than Balkanites, we have significantly better standard of living and different values. The fact that we only merely share some foods and dances says nothing really.

We are our own kind. Period.

Also, someone please ban Bosniensis, he needs his pills.

Why would someone ban me for different opinion.

Just because someone disagree with you doesn't deserve ban.

I've probably hit the weak spot of your "Greek nation" Armeno-Afro-Karvelian-Somali-Syrian Orthodox state.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Yes but I'm not minoring Greece somehow just saying Croatia is not entirely Balkan I said the same about Greece while Tauromachos said it is self evident that Croatia is quintessential Balkan to me that is not self evidence

I agree, and i said that Croatia isnt Balkan either since page 1

[brennus dux gallorum]

Why would someone ban me for different opinion.

Just because someone disagree with you doesn't deserve ban.

I've probably hit the weak spot of your "Greek nation" Armeno-Afro-Karvelian-Somali-Syrian Orthodox state.

Wow, if we are all these things why do we appear to be genetically more like this:https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f945bd355f02d9d490381a55f05d1988

[Token]

In what sense?

[Tauromachos]

Besides Thrace,Aegean Greece has the strongest Bagpipe tradition among Greeks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUoTXb1_CsY



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0TEHbwdDWI
Sicilians and Calabrians have Bagpipe music too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2LZrX7p1M
Both Moje and Brennus are wrong

Bagpipe is a very mediteranean thing but ok its Balkan too lol
There you see the connections between Balkans and Med via the influence of Hellenic people and Romans
in Ancient Balkans

[Hithaeglir]

North Macedonians

[pulstar]

Balkan owns it's name to cultural and historical similarities and connections, not to economic statistics.
Northern Romania is not Balkan.

Are you trying to say that population density, net migration, infant mortality per 1000, GDP per capita, phones per 1000, % arable land, % crops, % other land, birthrate, deathrate, agriculture, industry, and services are not tied to cultural and historical connections? If so I think you're dead wrong.

[Dr_Maul]

Neither I think. Greece more akin to Southern Europe like Italy and Croatia is more similar to its neighbors in central europe

[Crn Volk]

North Macedonians

Sure, but that's not the question.

[Renekton]

Neither imo

[catgeorge]

Thread started by an Albadonian troll.

[Tauromachos]

We have 1500 years documented history in Bosnia and Balkans, your Greeks don't have 50 years of documented history.

Without Greeks you would have no documented history in Bosnia and Balkans

[Crn Volk]

Thread started by an Albadonian troll.

Ancestry
85% Balkan :thumb001:

[pulstar]

I've ran K means clustering algorithms for (almost) all countries in Europe, and I divided in 6 groups. Based on labels (Pop. Density, Net migration, Infant mortality per 1000, GDP per capita, Phones per 1000, % Arable land, % Crops, % Other, Birthrate, Deathrate, Agriculture, Industry, Services) I got:
1) Group 0: Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia
2) Group 1: Denmark, Iceland, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland
3) Group 2: Andorra, Faroe Islands, Gibralatar, Greece, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Malta, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain
4) Group 3: Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Netherlands, Sweden, UK
5) Group 4: Luxembourg
6) Group 5: Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, Serbia

So since group 5 is Balkans I think neither of the two country is Balkan.

After I added Belarus, Ukraine, Russia, Moldova, Armenia, and Georgia (for some reasons someone who made the CSV file didn't classify them as Europe), I got following groups (not many changes but I wanted all countries):

1) Group 0: Andorra, Czech Republic, Faroe Islands, Gibraltar, Greece, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Malta, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain
2) Group 1: Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Monaco, Netherlands, Sweden, UK
3) Group 2: Albania, Armenia, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Georgia, Macedonia, Moldova, Romania, Serbia, Ukraine
4) Group 3: Luxembourg
5) Group 4: Denmark, Iceland, Norway, San Marino, Switzerland
6) Group 5: Croatia, Hungary, Poland, Russia, Slovakia

I think this one is better indicator how similar are some European countries. Note: higher numbers don't mean some group is better than other.

[catgeorge]

Ancestry
85% Balkan :thumb001:

Paleobalkan not Slavoavar like yout bretheren that post on these forums and former Skopjian prime ministers that look half chink.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Sure, but that's not the question.

Neither.

[ioan assen]

I d say both BUT also they are the most "westernized" nations on the Balkans. I know more about Greece so I d start there. The south of Greece, like the islands show huge Italian (to be precise Venetian) influence and in consequence: a lot of catholic influence in architecture, the buildings of the city etc. A lot from medieval period has been retained (Crete, Rhodes, Kos etc.). As you go north, it gets more orthodox, more "Balkan" and more like Bulgaria. Its still much more western, but it seems like the byzantine influence is not that mixed with the catholic one (like in Bulgaria). So Greece is a bit mixed, it has both of those worlds and its also very southern and shares a lot with Spain, Italy and Portugal.
Now I know less Croatia, I ve been only to Dubrovnik and I feel strong Italian/Venetian influence there too. That influence is strong in Montenegro too. It feels a bit like Hungary, I guess due to the history of both states and being in one country for most of the middle ages.

[pulstar]

Both in equal measure.

I wanted to test this as well. Whether or not they are equally distant. Turns out no. Greece is less Balkans than Croatia. When I decrease number of clusters from 6 to 5, Croatia instantly falls in the "Balkans" cluster alongside with some other countries, but for example Hungary goes to Greek cluster. Greece doesn't fall in cluster with other Balkan countries even if I set number of clusters to be 2 (meaning its Western Europe alike in almost all terms except geography). Another interesting thing, only Slovenia and Greece from geographically Eastern Europe are really Western European, while Portugal is Eastern European (in terms of the labels I used).

[Tauromachos]

Balkan owns it's name to cultural and historical similarities and connections, not to economic statistics.
Northern Romania is not Balkan.

In my notion Balkans owns its name mainly to geographic and cultural,historical,geopolitical connection

The core of Balkans are the Balkan mountains which extend through Former Yugoslavia to Bulgaria and the countries
containing them or adjacent to them.
Its defined predominantly by this geographical boundaries and by the cultural,historical connections withhin its confinements

There is no way in this sense Greece is quintessential or core Balkan

There is overlapp and cultural,historical connections between Greece and Balkan though,yes

[Renekton]

Bump

[frankhammer]

Balkan is wherever bagpipes are played. That is my personal criteria for Balkan. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZhMsgSLEYg

There was always something fishy about them Scots :laugh:

[Dunai]

The ratio for the daily Balkan related never ending warzone thread was just met, keep it up guys :rolleyes:

[Ülev]

There was always something fishy about them Scots :laugh:

shieet, stupid association after 4 beers, in Russian Scot (скот ) means cattle, Vlachs and cattle - one family, and now these bagpipes ....no more beers

[frankhammer]

shieet, stupid association after 4 beers, in Russian Scot (скот ) means cattle, Vlachs and cattle - one family, and now these bagpipes ....no more beers

:laugh:

[Insuperable]

I wonder what exactly is Balkan for them? Something bad?

Balkans is usually associated with Ottomans, Muslims, misery and wars so people try to dissociate themselves from it. It is understandable to a degree. Would there be no Muslims and would Balkans countries hypothetically be world powers than the same people who put so much effort into dissecting every thing with a goal to show why they are not Balkans would desperately try to associate with it.

[pulstar]

In general one similarity exists between Croats and Greeks.

Both hate being called Balkan.

I wonder what exactly is Balkan for them? Something bad?

A place in Eastern Europe where paradox is norm (more often then elsewhere in that region of Europe). Perhaps that's why.

[brennus dux gallorum]

A place in Eastern Europe where paradox is norm (more often then elsewhere in that region of Europe). Perhaps that's why.

And simply because Greeks do not feel close to Balkan social norms today, just like they dont feel close to North Europeans etc.

And its not coincidence that in another thread asking the same thing, most of foreigners said that Greeks who live in their own countries are distinguished by people from Balkans, without that meaning anything bad about the latter (among them a Norwegian person who said this was insulted by stearsolina)

Even in this poll, people from western Europe and the new world havent voted for Greece, which is what matters as they will rarely troll

[Tauromachos]

....
And its not coincidence that in another thread asking the same thing, most of foreigners said that Greeks who live in their own countries are distinguished by people from Balkans, without that meaning anything bad about the latter (among them a Norwegian person who said this was insulted by stearsolina)


Where did this happen?

I want to see it :lol:

[brennus dux gallorum]

Where did this happen?

I want to see it :lol:


Geographically Yes. Otherwise I'd say they are rather unique in terms of culture, history and present language. They seem to be much more westernized in thinking compared to their Balkan neighbors. Greeks who live here are have a quite different reputation compared to the Albanians, Yugos and Romanians. If I'd categorize them it would be strictly Mediterranean along with the other old school Meds like Portuguese, Spanish and Italians.

And then fiechy being like:

Cut the crap. There are no "Yugos" whatsoever.
I am sure Greeks are much more westernized than Slovenians buhuhu.

:laugh:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?330214-Do-You-Consider-Greece-A-Balkan-Country/page8

And thats what stupid fyromians are usually unable to understand: Greece is a country with vastly different geography and history than this isolated sithole that they call "motherland", and thus its NORMAL that we will vastly differ from people of Balkans, either we are talking about trash like fyrom or normal-but still slavic, continental and completely non-mesiterranean Balkan countries like Bulgaria or serbia

A Bulgarian (ioan assen) who just happened to visit Greece says one page ago:


The south of Greece and the islands show huge Italian (to be precise Venetian) influence and in consequence: a lot of catholic influence in architecture, the buildings of the city etc. A lot from medieval period has been retained (Crete, Rhodes, Kos etc.

Greece is far from being even slightly similar to fyrom and trash north-west of it:
https://i.redd.it/9anb6gdde2f51.jpg

Though still closer to normal non-trash Balkan countries, like Bulgaria

In fyrom there hardly was any statue before 1900

[Tauromachos]

He is absolutely right this is how Diaspora Greeks are seen in most countries

The Balkan label for Greeks is realy something new

Greece as a country is sometimes counted as part of the Balkans and sometimes not
its optional but not strict

Greeks call themselves sometimes as Balkanians but we have no strict notion about being Balkan and to most
Greeks it doesn't matter the most if Balkan or not.

As foreigners in other countries Greeks are mostly not seen as Balkanians.