ancient model for my family & friends

[Jana]

I didn't include Stears, because he'd need some other populations (like Thracian or Turko-Uralic) that are irrelevant for Croats.
It's my old model upgraded by two new Slavic samples from Poland.


Slavic:Cedynia_NorthWestPoland_VK212,29.02,49.77,9 .02,4.57,2.56,0.12,1.19,0,1.16,0,0.25,1.76,0.58
Slavic:Sandomir_SouthPoland_VK494,32.6,47.38,12.62 ,2.61,0,0,0.99,2.36,0,0.36,0,0.87,0.22
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_,3 0.33,47.37,11.04,4.58,2.63,0.68,0.49,0.00,1.56,0.8 9,0.00,0.42,0.00
Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_,25. 54,45.76,13.11,4.08,6.15,0.53,0.00,0.00,2.60,1.08, 0.58,0.53,0.00
Illyrian:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,12.02,24 .41,7.67,19.60,1.39,0.00,0.00,0.00,1.23,0.00,0.00, 0.00
Illyrian:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,13.00,27 .73,10.03,16.07,0.60,0.00,1.05,0.00,0.21,0.00,0.00 ,0.64
Illyrian:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34.15,12. 62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0.00,0.00,0.38,0.00,0.00 ,0.00,0.00
Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.3 4,21.39,41.91,10.30,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.19,0.00,1.38, 0.00
Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.3 3,24.54,44.64,3.40,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.94,0.00,0 .00
Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0.00,22. 92,19.04,41.20,5.12,0.00,0.00,0.57,0.00,0.91,0.00, 0.00
Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19. 72,17.30,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0.00,1.21 ,0.41
Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0.00,22.6 8,21.74,35.29,9.37,0.00,0.37,0.00,0.21,0.47,1.25,0 .00
Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.30,16.7 7,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0.00,0.00,0.82,0.00,0.77, 0.00
Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.8 2,22.14,43.72,2.03,0.00,0.10,0.00,0.27,0.39,0.00,0 .00
Germanic:SZ13_Hungary_Langobard_son.SZ24_father.SZ 7_brother.SZ22_1469_ybp,51.91,27.94,8.54,6.68,0.00 ,1.86,0.46,0.00,0.00,1.60,0.70,0.30,0.00
Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,47.25,26. 28,10.75,7.04,5.01,0.00,1.09,0.00,0.00,0.90,1.69,0 .00,0.00
Germanic:SZ16_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp,48.77,31. 63,9.58,6.50,0.00,0.00,1.35,0.00,0.85,0.66,0.45,0. 00,0.21
Jewish:Ashkenazi,15.32,10.16,18.44,10.29,34.61,5.9 8,1.04,0.79,0.97,0.46,0.29,1.15,0.50
Celtic:France_IA_COL153A,41.26,20.62,18.22,0,16.67 ,3.22,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Celtic:France_IA_ERS86,37.1,22.42,26.11,2.55,7.85, 1.32,0,0,0,0.15,0.98,0.76,0.75
Celtic:France_IA_ERS88,37.83,12.85,19.92,3.27,22.4 ,2.1,0,0,0,1.23,0,0.39,0
Celtic:DA111_Czech_HallstattBylany.SG_2702_ybp,48. 08,19.16,23.33,0.01,6.63,1.07,0.10,0.00,0.00,0.68, 0.00,0.24,0.69
Hellenic:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp,8.75,3.24 ,32.05,13.71,37.05,3.81,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.80,0.58,0 .00,0.00
Hellenic:I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_,10.52,2.73,31.92 ,8.82,36.83,8.03,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.86,0.00,0.3 0
Hellenic:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_,18.69,1.27,31. 47,12.51,27.61,2.03,0.00,0.87,0.24,0.00,0.87,3.47, 0.98
Hellenic:I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp,20.11,0.0 0,30.28,9.34,35.01,3.56,0.00,0.00,1.40,0.00,0.00,0 .30,0.00

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 3.0767% / 3.07666080

52.0 Slavic
20.2 Illyrian
14.8 Germanic
13.0 Roman

Target: Mom
Distance: 1.6886% / 1.68862036

52.0 Slavic
22.2 Roman
16.2 Germanic
9.6 Illyrian

Target: Dad
Distance: 1.1811% / 1.18111783

54.6 Slavic
22.6 Roman
15.6 Germanic
7.2 Illyrian

Target: Hrvoje
Distance: 2.6492% / 2.64916741

45.4 Slavic
31.4 Germanic
22.8 Roman
0.4 Illyrian

Target: Manda
Distance: 1.7481% / 1.74811205

83.0 Slavic
16.0 Roman
1.0 Germanic

[oszkar07]

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.4382% / 2.43819849 | ADC: 0.25x
44.2 Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
31.0 Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
24.8 Celtic:France_IA_COL153A

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 1.9619% / 1.96190776
33.8 Germanic:SZ16_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
25.0 Celtic:France_IA_COL153A
18.2 Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
7.8 Slavic:Cedynia_NorthWestPoland_VK212
7.8 Jewish:Ashkenazi
7.0 Germanic:SZ13_Hungary_Langobard_son.SZ24_father.SZ 7_brother.SZ22_1469_ybp
0.4 Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial

[Jana]

My fit would get lower with Caucasus, but there is no history of Caucasians in Croatia so I excluded it.
My parents get great fit with this so it works pretty well.

[Dušan]

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.9616% / 1.96162630
68.4 Slavic
17.0 Hellenic
10.2 Illyrian
4.4 Roman

[Jana]

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.9616% / 1.96162630
68.4 Slavic
17.0 Hellenic
10.2 Illyrian
4.4 Roman

Works great for you.

[Dušan]

Works great for you.

Yes, very low distance.

[Jana]

added references for Stears and my Hungarian friend


Thraco-Dacian:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3.48,30. 00,9.21,28.33,4.36,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0 .00
Magyar:Chuvash,14.88,43.07,2.02,8.74,1.29,0.85,2.2 8,2.66,20.08,2.77,0.44,0.55,0.36
Magyar:Tatar,18.88,34.62,5.85,11.66,3.85,0.90,2.68 ,3.12,15.56,2.00,0.28,0.13,0.46


Target: Stears
Distance: 1.6572% / 1.65715079

36.0 Slavic
26.0 Germanic
20.2 Roman
11.4 Magyar
6.4 Illyrian


Target: Blanka
Distance: 1.8671% / 1.86712495

50.8 Slavic
41.4 Celtic
7.8 Jewish

[Jana]

Yes, very low distance.

Looks realistic too, in line what modern calcs give you too. Very Slavic with very southern Greek-like (but not only) native part.

[Jana]

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.4382% / 2.43819849 | ADC: 0.25x
44.2 Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
31.0 Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
24.8 Celtic:France_IA_COL153A

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 1.9619% / 1.96190776
33.8 Germanic:SZ16_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
25.0 Celtic:France_IA_COL153A
18.2 Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
7.8 Slavic:Cedynia_NorthWestPoland_VK212
7.8 Jewish:Ashkenazi
7.0 Germanic:SZ13_Hungary_Langobard_son.SZ24_father.SZ 7_brother.SZ22_1469_ybp
0.4 Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial

Works rather well for you too Oszkar! :)

[andre]

With jewish:
Target: Andre
Distance: 0.7317% / 0.73168886
40.2 Slavic
23.0 jewish
17.0 Celtic
11.8 Roman
4.4 Magyar
3.6 Hellenic

Without:

Target: Andre
Distance: 1.0008% / 1.00083675
37.6 Slavic
27.6 Celtic
23.2 Roman
6.2 Hellenic
5.4 Magyar

[Scandal]

Target: Universe(hungarian)
Distance: 3.5483% / 3.54825471
66.8 Slavic
18.4 Jewish
14.8 Celtic

[Jana]

With jewish:
Target: Andre
Distance: 0.7317% / 0.73168886
40.2 Slavic
23.0 jewish
17.0 Celtic
11.8 Roman
4.4 Magyar
3.6 Hellenic

Without:

Target: Andre
Distance: 1.0008% / 1.00083675
37.6 Slavic
27.6 Celtic
23.2 Roman
6.2 Hellenic
5.4 Magyar

Can you try 0.25X? It should be even more realistic than 0, but work only for people who initially get low fit like you, not me.

[Jana]

Target: Universe(hungarian)
Distance: 3.5483% / 3.54825471
66.8 Slavic
18.4 Jewish
14.8 Celtic

Weird! :D but same combination like blanka, just different percentages.

[andre]

Can you try 0.25X? It should be even more realistic than 0, but work only for people who initially get low fit like you, not me.

Target: Andre
Distance: 1.5270% / 1.52695703 | ADC: 0.25x
41.0 Slavic
34.6 Jewish
12.4 Illyrian
8.2 Celtic
3.8 Magyar

Target: Andre
Distance: 1.7255% / 1.72548405 | ADC: 0.25x
48.0 Slavic
27.2 Celtic
22.4 Roman
2.4 Magyar

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Target: FellowGF
Distance: 103.4241% / 1.03424066
47.0 Slavic
25.2 Roman
20.6 Illyrian
5.4 Germanic
1.8 Celtic

Target: Fellow
Distance: 199.6810% / 1.99681048
43.0 Celtic
38.4 Slavic
15.8 Roman
1.6 Magyar
1.0 Illyrian
0.2 Germanic

[oszkar07]

I get better fit with added references, very good Calc actually.

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 1.9696% / 1.96959667 | ADC: 0.25x
38.8 Germanic
28.8 Celtic
26.8 Slavic
5.6 Magyar

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 1.4665% / 1.46650594
37.6 Celtic
31.0 Germanic
21.4 Slavic
6.8 Magyar
3.2 Roman

[Turul Karom]

https://i.imgur.com/TvD4WaE.png

https://i.imgur.com/mNuTk9P.png

[Chris596]

This is a nice model :) 0.25x is the best in my case

Target: Chris
Distance: 3.1218% / 3.12176908 | ADC: 0.25x
57.8 Slavic
22.2 Illyrian
16.0 Roman
3.0 Germanic
1.0 Jewish

[17571imre]

my results:

Target: mh
Distance: 1.9699% / 1.96993596 | ADC: 0.25x
33.2 Slavic
32.0 Illyrian
16.6 Celtic
8.0 Germanic
7.4 Jewish
2.8 Magyar

mother:
Target: cb
Distance: 2.4550% / 2.45503716 | ADC: 0.25x
38.6 Celtic
35.2 Slavic
15.4 Magyar
10.8 Illyrian

good results for me but strange results for my mother.

[Kyp]

Overfitting result with 0.00 that's why I use 0.25:

Target: MotherKyp(SouthGerman)
Distance: 2.0156% / 2.01561314 | ADC: 0.25x
55.8 Germanic
28.6 Celtic
10.6 Slavic
5.0 Illyrian



doesnt work for me obv:

Target: Kyp
Distance: 5.8194% / 5.81935338
45.8 Roman
35.4 Germanic
18.8 Magyar

[paradox]

Target: paradox
Distance: 2.9002% / 2.90022892 | ADC: 0.25x
40.8 Jewish
30.6 Slavic
24.0 Roman
3.0 Illyrian
1.6 Magyar

Target: paradox
Distance: 0.7922% / 0.79215580
46.6 Roman
37.8 Slavic
10.2 Jewish
2.8 Hellenic
1.8 Celtic
0.8 Germanic
-------------------------------------------
My father

Target: Father
Distance: 2.3183% / 2.31832364 | ADC: 0.25x
35.4 Jewish
29.2 Slavic
26.0 Illyrian
7.4 Germanic
2.0 Magyar

Target: Father
Distance: 0.3946% / 0.39455055
32.6 Roman
32.4 Slavic
20.2Celtic
10.8 Germanic
2.6 Illyrian
1.4 Magyar

[gixajo]

I didn't include Stears, because he'd need some other populations (like Thracian or Turko-Uralic) that are irrelevant for Croats.
It's my old model upgraded by two new Slavic samples from Poland.



Surely you know better than me how to don good models, but if Ashkenazi reference is a modern one (and I guess it because Ashkenazies are a "modern" group among jews), maybe you should add also an ancient reference for that input, for example an ancient Levantine sample from that area related with nowadays Israel or Palestine.

Edit: I write about this Ashkenazi reference, but same with other modern references in the model, simply because it could not be named "ancient model".

But a modern model, IMO, can use some ancient references (if they are very few).

It´s not a critique about the model, but about naming it "ancient".:)

[gixajo]

My parents and I are not from this area, so we obtain graet distances, but only as curiosity:

Target: gixajo
Distance: 8.4530% / 8.45302289
76.4 Celtic:DA111_Czech_HallstattBylany.SG_2702_ybp
23.6 Hellenic:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_

Target: gixajo_dad
Distance: 7.7889% / 7.78892548
67.4 Celtic:DA111_Czech_HallstattBylany.SG_2702_ybp
23.2 Hellenic:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_
9.4 Hellenic:I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_

Target: gixajo_mom
Distance: 7.9620% / 7.96196239
83.6 Celtic:DA111_Czech_HallstattBylany.SG_2702_ybp
16.4 Hellenic:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_

[Bessarion]

Target: bojan
Distance: 219.1360% / 2.19136017 | ADC: 0.25x
42.0 Germanic
36.2 Slavic
11.0 Jewish
7.2 Roman
2.0 Illyrian
1.6 Magyar

Distance to: bojan
17.49630247 Celtic:France_IA_COL153A
17.69857621 Germanic:SZ12_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
18.11095801 Celtic:France_IA_ERS86
19.21882150 Slavic:Sungir6_Early_Medieval_Russian_I2a_I2a_
20.72590408 Illyrian:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
20.90471239 Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Szolad_540_640_AD_540_640_AD_
21.46695833 Germanic:SZ16_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
22.44766358 Celtic:France_IA_ERS88
22.50911149 Illyrian:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
22.74149951 Slavic:Sandomir_SouthPoland_VK494
22.88031468 Illyrian:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
23.48076873 avic:Cedynia_NorthWestPoland_VK212
23.61522814 Magyar:Tatar
24.12635488 Germanic:SZ13_Hungary_Langobard_son.SZ24_father.SZ 7_brother.SZ22_1469_ybp
24.52313601 Celtic:DA111_Czech_HallstattBylany.SG_2702_ybp
33.11399402 Magyar:Chuvash
34.82919609 Jewish:Ashkenazi
36.16593010 Thraco-Dacian:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
39.94963079 Hellenic:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_
43.00800972 Hellenic:I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp
43.98240444 Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
46.97353936 Hellenic:I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_
47.44078836 Hellenic:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp
47.82729869 Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
49.04190147 Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial


I see your Germanic is based mostly on Szolad site near Balaton. I found earlier references from this site is highly suspicious to take as Germanic (actually very mixed group).
What did you use for Jewish reference?

[Jana]

I see your Germanic is based mostly on Szolad site near Balaton. I found earlier references from this site is highly suspicious to take as Germanic (actually very mixed group).
What did you use for Jewish reference?

No, I used only pure Germanic samples that cluster with Scandinavians/Danes/North Germans/North Dutch.