Where did Jesus say, "I am God, worship me"?

[Loki]

https://youtu.be/sS-lLTfCI7c

[Mortimer]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOIxg4uXkAAstoM?format=jpg&name=small

[Annihilus]

Jesus is his own father or you have multiple gods, which is it?

[Laly]

https://youtu.be/sS-lLTfCI7c

I have already been confronted with that saying coming from the Islamic apologetics. It illustrates the most pathetic kind of rethoric.

[Loki]

Jesus is his own father or you have multiple gods, which is it?

Jesus and the Father are the same God, but two persons. Humans have only one person but God is not a human. So yes in essence, God planted his own seed in Mary to be born a human body to himself. God chose to come and reveal himself to his creation. Jesus is the God of Abraham, the creator of all things.

[Loki]

I have already been confronted with that saying coming from the Islamic apologetics. It illustrates the most pathetic kind of rethoric.

Yes, you should watch the video it's quite good :)

[Laly]

Jesus is his own father or you have multiple gods, which is it?

God is one and triune at the same time. There are three hypostases, corresponding to the three divine persons: God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus-Christ. The latter, Jesus, has two natures, a human nature and a divine nature. He is totally man and totally God. All of this is in accordance with the Biblical text and it was conceptualised by Saint Augustine, great figure of Christian Neoplatonism. The construction is indeed comparable to the Platonic triad God-Logos-Spirit World.

[Laly]

Yes, you should watch the video it's quite good :)

Thank you. I've watched it.

[Loki]

God is one and triune at the same time. There are three hypostases, corresponding to the three divine persons: God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus-Christ. The latter, Jesus, has two natures, a human nature and a divine nature. He is totally man and totally God. All of this is in accordance with the Biblical text and it was conceptualised by Saint Augustine, great figure of Christian Neoplatonism. The construction is indeed comparable to the Platonic triad God-Logos-Spirit World.

The concept of the triune nature of God did not start with St Augustine. It is evident throughout the New Testament revelation of Jesus Christ, and the early Christians saw Jesus as God, understood his message and worshipped him. They also understood that the Holy Spirit was God, God's manifestation in the world after Jesus went to his Father.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Jesus is his own father or you have multiple gods, which is it?

John 1:1


1 (https://biblehub.com/john/1-1.htm) In (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) the beginning (https://biblehub.com/greek/746.htm) was (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Word(Jesus/Logos), (https://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Word (https://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm) was (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) with (https://biblehub.com/greek/4314.htm) God, (https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Word (https://biblehub.com/greek/3056.htm) was (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) God. (https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm)2 (https://biblehub.com/john/1-2.htm) He (https://biblehub.com/greek/3778.htm) was (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) with (https://biblehub.com/greek/4314.htm) God (https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) the beginning. (https://biblehub.com/greek/746.htm) 3 (https://biblehub.com/john/1-3.htm) Through (https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm) Him (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) all things (https://biblehub.com/greek/3956.htm) were made, (https://biblehub.com/greek/1096.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) without (https://biblehub.com/greek/5565.htm) Him (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) nothing (https://biblehub.com/greek/3761.htm) was made (https://biblehub.com/greek/1096.htm) that (https://biblehub.com/greek/3739.htm) has been made. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1096.htm)4 (https://biblehub.com/john/1-4.htm)In (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) Him (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) was (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) life, (https://biblehub.com/greek/2222.htm)and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) that (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) life (https://biblehub.com/greek/2222.htm) was (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm)light (https://biblehub.com/greek/5457.htm) of men. (https://biblehub.com/greek/444.htm)5 (https://biblehub.com/john/1-5.htm)The (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Light (https://biblehub.com/greek/5457.htm) shines (https://biblehub.com/greek/5316.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) darkness, (https://biblehub.com/greek/4653.htm)and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) darkness (https://biblehub.com/greek/4653.htm) has not (https://biblehub.com/greek/3756.htm) overcome (https://biblehub.com/greek/2638.htm) it. (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm)

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

John 10:30


I and the Father are one.

Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims

22 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-22.htm)Then came the Festival of Dedication b (https://biblehub.com/niv/john/10.htm#footnotes) at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-23.htm)and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-24.htm)The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”25 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-25.htm)Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-26.htm)but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-27.htm)My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-28.htm)I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-29.htm)My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all c (https://biblehub.com/niv/john/10.htm#footnotes) ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-30.htm)I and the Father are one.”31 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-31.htm)Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-32.htm)but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”33 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-33.htm)“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”34 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-34.htm)Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’ d (https://biblehub.com/niv/john/10.htm#footnotes) ? 35 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-35.htm)If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-36.htm)what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-37.htm)Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-38.htm)But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-39.htm)Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.40 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-40.htm)Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed, 41 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-41.htm)and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.” 42 (http://biblehub.com/john/10-42.htm)And in that place many believed in Jesus.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

John 14:8


8Philip (https://biblehub.com/greek/5376.htm) said (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) to Him, (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) “Lord, (https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm) show (https://biblehub.com/greek/1166.htm) us (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) that will be enough (https://biblehub.com/greek/714.htm) for us. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm)9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?…



In My Father’s House Are Many Rooms1 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-1.htm)“Do not let (https://biblehub.com/greek/3361.htm) your (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) hearts (https://biblehub.com/greek/2588.htm) be troubled. (https://biblehub.com/greek/5015.htm) You believe (https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1519.htm) God; (https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm) believe (https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1519.htm) Me (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) as well. (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) 2 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-2.htm)In (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) My (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) Father’s (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) house (https://biblehub.com/greek/3614.htm) are (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) many (https://biblehub.com/greek/4183.htm) rooms. (https://biblehub.com/greek/3438.htm) If (https://biblehub.com/greek/1487.htm) it were not (https://biblehub.com/greek/3361.htm) so, (https://biblehub.com/greek/302.htm) would I have told (https://biblehub.com/greek/2036.htm) you (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) that (https://biblehub.com/greek/3754.htm) I am going there (https://biblehub.com/greek/4198.htm) to prepare (https://biblehub.com/greek/2090.htm) a place (https://biblehub.com/greek/5117.htm) for you? (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) 3 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-3.htm)And (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) if (https://biblehub.com/greek/1437.htm) I go (https://biblehub.com/greek/4198.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) prepare (https://biblehub.com/greek/2090.htm) a place (https://biblehub.com/greek/5117.htm) for you, (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) I will come (https://biblehub.com/greek/2064.htm) back (https://biblehub.com/greek/3825.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) welcome (https://biblehub.com/greek/3880.htm) you (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) into (https://biblehub.com/greek/4314.htm) My presence, (https://biblehub.com/greek/1683.htm) so that (https://biblehub.com/greek/2443.htm) you (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) also (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) may be (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) where (https://biblehub.com/greek/3699.htm) I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) am. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) 4 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-4.htm) You know (https://biblehub.com/greek/1492.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) way (https://biblehub.com/greek/3598.htm) to the place where (https://biblehub.com/greek/3699.htm) I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) am going. (https://biblehub.com/greek/5217.htm)The Way, the Truth, and the Life5 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-5.htm)“Lord, (https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm) said (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) Thomas, (https://biblehub.com/greek/2381.htm) “we do not know (https://biblehub.com/greek/1492.htm) where (https://biblehub.com/greek/4226.htm) You are going, (https://biblehub.com/greek/5217.htm) so how (https://biblehub.com/greek/4459.htm) can we (https://biblehub.com/greek/1410.htm) know (https://biblehub.com/greek/1492.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) way? (https://biblehub.com/greek/3598.htm)6 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-6.htm) Jesus (https://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm) answered, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) “I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) am (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) way (https://biblehub.com/greek/3598.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) truth (https://biblehub.com/greek/225.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) life. (https://biblehub.com/greek/2222.htm) No one (https://biblehub.com/greek/3762.htm) comes (https://biblehub.com/greek/2064.htm) to (https://biblehub.com/greek/4314.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) except (https://biblehub.com/greek/1487.htm) through (https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm) Me. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) 7 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-7.htm)If (https://biblehub.com/greek/1487.htm) you had known (https://biblehub.com/greek/1097.htm) Me, (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) you would know (https://biblehub.com/greek/1492.htm) My (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) as well. (https://biblehub.com/greek/302.htm) From (https://biblehub.com/greek/575.htm) now on (https://biblehub.com/greek/737.htm) you do know (https://biblehub.com/greek/1097.htm) Him (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) have seen (https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm) Him. (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm)8 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-8.htm)Philip (https://biblehub.com/greek/5376.htm) said (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) to Him, (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) “Lord, (https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm) show (https://biblehub.com/greek/1166.htm) us (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) that will be enough (https://biblehub.com/greek/714.htm) for us. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm)9 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-9.htm) Jesus (https://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm) replied, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) “Philip, (https://biblehub.com/greek/5376.htm) I have been (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) with (https://biblehub.com/greek/3326.htm) you (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) all this (https://biblehub.com/greek/5118.htm) time, (https://biblehub.com/greek/5550.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) still you do not know (https://biblehub.com/greek/1097.htm) Me? (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) Anyone who (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) has seen (https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm) Me (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) has seen (https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father. (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) How (https://biblehub.com/greek/4459.htm) can you (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) say, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) ‘Show (https://biblehub.com/greek/1166.htm) us (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father’? (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) 10 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-10.htm) Do you not believe (https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm) that (https://biblehub.com/greek/3754.htm) I am (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) is (https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) Me? (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) The (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) words (https://biblehub.com/greek/4487.htm) I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) say (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) to you, (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) I do not speak (https://biblehub.com/greek/2980.htm) on (https://biblehub.com/greek/575.htm) My own. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1683.htm) Instead, (https://biblehub.com/greek/1161.htm) it is the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) dwelling (https://biblehub.com/greek/3306.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) Me, (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) performing (https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm) His (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm) works. (https://biblehub.com/greek/2041.htm) 11 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-11.htm)Believe (https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm) Me (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) that (https://biblehub.com/greek/3754.htm) I am (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) and (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) is in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) Me— (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) or at least (https://biblehub.com/greek/1161.htm) believe (https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm) on account of (https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) works (https://biblehub.com/greek/2041.htm) themselves. (https://biblehub.com/greek/846.htm)12 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-12.htm)Truly, (https://biblehub.com/greek/281.htm) truly, (https://biblehub.com/greek/281.htm) I tell (https://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm) you, (https://biblehub.com/greek/4771.htm) whoever (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) believes (https://biblehub.com/greek/4100.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1519.htm) Me (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) will also do (https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) works (https://biblehub.com/greek/2041.htm) that (https://biblehub.com/greek/3739.htm) I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) am doing. (https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm) He will do (https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm) even (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) greater things (https://biblehub.com/greek/3173.htm) than these, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3778.htm) because (https://biblehub.com/greek/3754.htm) I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) am going (https://biblehub.com/greek/4198.htm) to (https://biblehub.com/greek/4314.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father. (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) 13 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-13.htm)And (https://biblehub.com/greek/2532.htm) I will do (https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm) whatever (https://biblehub.com/greek/3754.htm) you ask (https://biblehub.com/greek/154.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) My (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) name, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3686.htm) so that (https://biblehub.com/greek/2443.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Father (https://biblehub.com/greek/3962.htm) may be glorified (https://biblehub.com/greek/1392.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) the (https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) Son. (https://biblehub.com/greek/5207.htm) 14 (https://biblehub.com/john/14-14.htm)If (https://biblehub.com/greek/1437.htm) you ask (https://biblehub.com/greek/154.htm) Me (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) for anything (https://biblehub.com/greek/5100.htm) in (https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm) My (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) name, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3686.htm) I (https://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm) will do it. (https://biblehub.com/greek/4160.htm)

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

John 8:48-59

48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’[a (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208:48-59&version=ESV#fen-ESV-26424a)] 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 [B]Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

[Laly]

The concept of the triune nature of God did not start with St Augustine. It is evident throughout the New Testament revelation of Jesus Christ, and the early Christians saw Jesus as God, understood his message and worshipped him. They also understood that the Holy Spirit was God, God's manifestation in the world after Jesus went to his Father.

Indeed, that's why I wrote "it's in accordance with the Biblical text". And it was, as you say, understood by people before Augustine, as shown by important founding councils:

- In 325, the First Council of Nicea establishes the identity of substance between the Father and the Son.

- In 381, the First Council of Constantinople confirms the divinity of the Christ, affirms the one of the Holy Spirit and the symbol of Nicea-Constantinople is established: the Son has the same nature as the Father, the son became flesh and man. Being God, Jesus Christ is also real man.

But Augustine wrote a whole treaty on the Trinity (he began working on it around 400) and I think he went further than ever before regarding its conceptualisation and its philosophical implications. Thanks to his speculative masterpiece, I think the Trinity becomes even more evident. Because still, it's a complex concept and this complexity makes Christianity even more beautiful.

[Loki]

Yes, you are right about this. God used men like Augustine to conceptualise some of the mysteries of heaven. In our small human minds it's impossible to fully understand the nature of God, and therefore there are wonderful mysteries of God that we can come to grasp, with the help of the Holy Spirit and of course all the while in line with scripture. The Biblical text is also absolutely amazing, unlike any other books on earth, full of the depths and mysteries of God.

[Insuperable]

Jesus is his own father or you have multiple gods, which is it?

Christians shouldn't break heads about it. It is not of importance for Christians to try to solve that puzzle, nor is it for Christians to solve it. I couldn't care less is Trinity actually trinity or is Trinity triune but actually one.

Let me give you an analogy why is that. Like most analogies it is not perfect, but you'll get the point.

Quantum physicists or field theorists need to take many concepts, some of which are counterintuitive for granted in order to do physics. The deeper they go more abstract it becomes, started with classical notions, developed into field theory etc. They have to take them as truth because theory and equations (lets call it the scripture) tell them so.

Likewise, Christians don't believe in Trinity or hypostatic union because it is implied in the NT and we just happen to be Christians, but because of goodness and wisdom delivered by Christ based on the scripture. Plus that combined with historical events. Christ stood behind his every word and 'the one who has an ear' will realize that what Jesus preached and stood by is exactly what someone might expect from a man claiming to be a God or God claiming to be a man. That someone can't simply place all of that under the carpet just like that. Pisslam for example may in essence be a simpler religion thanks to which it mostly strives, but for most of us it has failed to deliver man's expectations of divine.

[Hamilcar]

Indeed, that's why I wrote "it's in accordance with the Biblical text". And it was, as you say, understood by people before Augustine, as shown by important founding councils:

- In 325, the First Council of Nicea establishes the identity of substance between the Father and the Son.

- In 381, the First Council of Constantinople confirms the divinity of the Christ, affirms the one of the Holy Spirit and the symbol of Nicea-Constantinople is established: the Son has the same nature as the Father, the son became flesh and man. Being God, Jesus Christ is also real man.

But Augustine wrote a whole treaty on the Trinity (he began working on it around 400) and I think he went further than ever before regarding its conceptualisation and its philosophical implications. Thanks to his speculative masterpiece, I think the Trinity becomes even more evident. Because still, it's a complex concept and this complexity makes Christianity even more beautiful.

It was first introduced and developed by Tertullian who was also north african

[CordedWhelp]

Humanity has a flesh body, spirit and a mind.

God has Flesh, Mind, Spirit.

Man was Created in His Image. That’s part of it. The Word (Christ) has always Been, as it is written, but also had to be born in the Temporal which was Fulfilling what He Foretold. God is Inside and Outside of Time.

[Loki]

One can also see it like this: Take a look at your left hand. That is you, for sure. Now look at your right hand. That is also you! But it's two different hands, yet the same human being. In the same way, Jesus is God and so is the Father. (and the Spirit). Different functions but the same Godhead.

[Loki]

It is important for one's salvation to believe that Jesus is God. Because our creator is the only one who can save us, there is no other Redeemer.

[wvwvw]

“Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”

John 14:6—Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

i.e Jesus is equal to the way to eternal life and the way to eternal life is equal to loving others and God therefore the way to eternal life is by loving others and God.

Jesus came to show the way to heaven and that way is God - the light that is love. Nobody can come to God except through the way shown by Jesus - a life lived in love for everyone.

[-Scar-]

Mark 13:32:
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son [Jesus Christ], but the Father.
John 7:16:
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
I Corinthians 8:6:
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I Corinthians 11:3:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
John 14:28:
Ye have heard how I [Jesus Christ] said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

[Östsvensk]

I don't see how disproving the Trinity would necessarily prove that Islam is true. It is a topic that could be debated with a unitarian Christian, a Jew, a Mormon or an atheist thinking that it is a "silly" doctrine. Although most Christian-Muslim debates are usually on the topic of the Trinity from what I have seen.

[Laly]

I don't see how disproving the Trinity would necessarily prove that Islam is true. It is a topic that could be debated with a unitarian Christian, a Jew, a Mormon or an atheist thinking that it is a "silly" doctrine. Although most Christian-Muslim debates are usually on the topic of the Trinity from what I have seen.

Maybe it’s because of some schizophrenic attitude, as on the one hand, Muslims consider the Biblical scripture to be falsified, and on the other hand, they want it to lead to the thought that “Islam is the truth”. And I believe that indeed, the borderline between Unitarianism and Islam is maybe quite tenuous…

See William Montgomery Watt, for example. The islamologist Carole Hillenbrand says this about him:


He was not afraid to express rather radical theological opinions – controversial ones in some Christian ecclesiastical circles. He often pondered on the question of what influence his study of Islam had exerted on him in his own Christian faith. As a direct result, he came to argue that the Islamic emphasis on the uncompromising oneness of God had caused him to reconsider the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, which is vigorously attacked in the Koran as undermining true monotheism.

Influenced by Islam, with its 99 names of God, each expressing special attributes of God, Watt returned to the Latin word "persona" – which meant a "face" or "mask", and not "individual", as it now means in English – and he formulated the view that a true interpretation of Trinity would not signify that God comprises three individuals. For him, Trinity represents three different "faces" of the one and the same God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Montgomery_Watt

[Östsvensk]

Maybe it’s because of some schizophrenic attitude, as on the one hand, Muslims consider the Biblical scripture to be falsified, and on the other hand, they want it to lead to the thought that “Islam is the truth”. And I believe that indeed, the borderline between Unitarianism and Islam is maybe quite tenuous…

See William Montgomery Watt, for example. The islamologist Carole Hillenbrand says this about him:

The South Africa-based Indian Ahmed Deedat, who rose to fame among Muslims by selling tapes where he attacked the Bible in debates with Pentecostal pastors and televangelists, got at least some of his arguments from the Watchtower, like the allegation that the King James Bible had 50,000 errors.