Do diaspora communities tend to be more conservative than people in their actual countries of origin

[Tooting Carmen]

This applies to both Westerners and non-Westerners alike. I was talking to a friend of mine recently, and he was saying that Arabs and South Asians who live in the West (or even in East Africa, in the latter's case) are often rather more traditional, conservative and closed than people in their countries of origin are, especially but by no means exclusively the first generations of immigrants. Conversely, I'd even say this applies to the British overseas too: my impression is that large British (descended) communities in countries like the US, Argentina, South Africa, Australia etc. are often more ethnocentric and socially conservative than people here in Britain itself are.

[stellan]

yeah, most greek americans are very conservative but greeks in greece tend to be more liberal

[Sheva]

Yes, as they tend to be stuck in a cultural bubble of the era they left their homeland. This is a well known phenomena among immigrant communities. In extreme cases they risk becoming outdated caricatures of their ethnicity.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yes, as they tend to be stuck in a cultural bubble of the era they left their homeland. This is a well known phenomena among immigrant communities. In extreme cases they risk becoming outdated caricatures of their ethnicity.

Methinks this is especially true of Muslims (be they MENA or South Asian). Even leaving aside the fundamentalist types, the ones living in the West tend to be more observant and more strict in their mores than many of the ones in their countries of origin are. (A recent thread showed how Muslims in many European countries attend mosque at higher rates than in many MENA countries themselves): https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299004-Mosque-attendancy-rates-in-countries-with-muslim-communities

[Sheva]

Methinks this is especially true of Muslims (be they MENA or South Asian). Even leaving aside the fundamentalist types, the ones living in the West tend to be more observant and more strict in their mores than many of the ones in their countries of origin are. (A recent thread showed how Muslims in many European countries attend mosque at higher rates than in many MENA countries themselves): https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?299004-Mosque-attendancy-rates-in-countries-with-muslim-communities

Yes, I've heard this to be true especially for Pakistanis and Turks living here. When they go back they are surprised at how liberal their ancestral homeland is compared to how they were raised. In response to getting a culture shock when arriving in Europe they chose to isolate themselves. Years ago I heard on the radio a prominent politician of Pakistani heritage point out that majority of arrivals from Pakistan come from the most rural and conservative areas, where tribal laws prevail above state authority.

Other immigrants while having a challenge to adapt, it's nowhere near the same as Muslims who also have a religion that preaches otherness. 2nd, 3rd and so on generation still ending up with an accent. Insisting on importing spouses from "home", etc.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yes, I've heard this to be true especially for Pakistanis and Turks living here. When they go back they are surprised at how liberal their ancestral homeland is compared to how they were raised. In response to getting a culture shock when arriving in Europe they chose to isolate themselves. Years ago I heard on the radio a prominent politician of Pakistani heritage point out that majority of arrivals from Pakistan come from the most rural and conservative areas, where tribal laws prevail above state authority.

Other immigrants while having a challenge to adapt, it's nowhere near the same as Muslims who also have a religion that preaches otherness. 2nd, 3rd and so on generation still ending up with an accent. Insisting on importing spouses from "home", etc.

A good example of this change is Bollywood: until 1992, even kissing was forbidden, whereas many movies and concerts now don't leave much for the imagination at all! In fact, I'd even say that a lot of their major actors like Salman Khan, John Abraham, Hrithik Roshan, Varun Dhawan, Tiger Shroff etc. are quite show-offy and oversexed even by Western standards.

[sean]

Do diaspora communities tend to be more conservative than people in their actual countries of origin? I'd even say this applies to the British overseas too: my impression is that large British (descended) communities in countries like the US, Argentina, South Africa, Australia etc. are often more ethnocentric and socially conservative than people here in Britain itself are.

Not true for South Africa.

The British were always more liberal than Afrikaners. That is why Afrikaners call them "Soutpiel" due to their divided loyalties.

The British wanted South Africa to be another Canada. The problem being that Canada itself didn't work, being that the confederation was an uneasy merger of French and British Canadians in a single government (Conscription Crisis of 1917). Likewise, the conservative Afrikaners of Transvaal and Orange and the conservative Anglos of Natal were unnaturally put into a federation with the cosmopolitan liberal Anglos of the Cape. They even tried to bring Rhodesia into it but they said no.

The result is that the Cape Province which was the largest province and had developed essentially its own national philosophy based on the values of the liberal enlightenment and the classism of the United Kingdom, clashed with the other three provinces, which were largely plantation/mining societies where farm owners were accustomed to being in charge over sharecropping non-whites imported either from the Bushveld (where the negroes lived), or from India.

Cape Coloureds had voting rights in the Cape and it was enshrined in law (South Africa Act 1909), the Afrikaners tried to do away with this and failed at first. Eventually they enlarged the Senate and adjusted how the legislature and executive worked so they could pass an amendment.

What kept Old South Africa going was segregation not between blacks and whites or different blacks from each other, but the separation of Afrikaners and English-speakers.

The National Party (which promoted Afrikaner interests in South Africa) won the first post WW2 election on a promise to protect white labour and other interests, English speakers supported them completely at first, obviously. But as things went on the Afrikaner Nationalists would clash with English folks on many issues and ended up alienating the English-speaking whites to the point that they viewed negotiations with the UDF being more favourable to the constant state of emergency and war they found themselves in.

Even Jews who migrated to South Africa largely assimilated to the urban liberal Anglo culture instead of the more small town/rural conservative Afrikaner culture.

Afrikaners not knowing English kept them isolated from British and American influence. Since Afrikaners were 60% of the population, they were always in power and could do what they wanted politically. But as they became increasingly Anglicised this shifted their social mores and made white South African voters on the whole more socially liberal and made Apartheid untenable.

With Apartheid's race laws came a whole lot of laws banning movies, books, music, fashion etc. There's a reason why verkrampte whites didn't want TV in South Africa. With television came both a slavish attitude of imitating Americans and the gradual Anglicisation of Afrikaners and their political attitudes and social mores.

By the early 1990s, most white South Africans basically had the same social values as Westerners in other nations and so were quite embarrassed by the social system they had established.

[Renekton]

Yes especially for Macedonian diaspora

[Tooting Carmen]

Not true for South Africa.

The British were always more liberal than Afrikaners.

That is hardly saying much. Many Anglos were still more than happy to go along with Apartheid and those ones often had attitudes towards race and sex not much different to their Afrikaner counterparts.


What kept Old South Africa going was segregation not between blacks and whites or different blacks from each other, but the separation of Afrikaners and English-speakers.

Ironically you have in a way proven my point: Anglo South Africans considered themselves superior and distinct even compared to Afrikaners, let alone much more foreign and distant ethnic groups.


Even Jews who migrated to South Africa largely assimilated to the urban liberal Anglo culture instead of the more small town/rural conservative Afrikaner culture.

Well yes, not least because many Afrikaners were staunch anti-Semites and more than a few of their leaders were Nazi collaborators and sympathisers during WWII. (Not that this hindered Israel from developing good relations with the Apartheid regime, of course).


By the early 1990s, most white South Africans basically had the same social values as Westerners in other nations and so were quite embarrassed by the social system they had established.

Really? What ended Apartheid was surely (a) De Klerk, who was essentially South Africa's Gorbachev (b) the sanctions and isolation and (c) the constant demonstrations and riots.

[ModernMaskil]

lol not in our case, but our diaspora is a different case altogether and is older than the (modern) state.

[Dr_Maul]

It depends on the ethnic group

Kurds, Azeris are more liberal in the west but they are more conservative in Iran
Persians probably equally liberal as in Iran however their are more % of liberals in the west

[Chris596]

In the case of Hungarians, I would say yes, but it's not always true because there's much rivalism between other Hungarians in many countries (my Aunt who lives in the Netherlands has experienced this as well).

[sean]

Many Anglos were still more than happy to go along with Apartheid and those ones often had attitudes towards race and sex not much different to their Afrikaner counterparts.

It's not that simple.

Originally Apartheid under Malan meant "negroes who were brought in from the bantu homelands/reservations by British during WWII to steal jobs previously worked by whites who were conscripted to fight a war for the Empire against Germany need to go the fuck back to their reservations in the middle of nowhere and leave the factory work to the white veterans" ("die verswarting van die platteland").

In the late 1950s Hendrik Verwoerd came to power. Verwoerd created the concept of apartheid in the 1940s which Malan used as an election slogan, its literal definition translates to "apartness". However, Verwoerd was actually a sociologist and a liberal cuck who believed that culture rather than race was the most important factor. He wanted brown people to go back to South Asia and to give blacks their own independent nations so whites and mongrels would be the citizens of the Republic of South Africa. He also put negro communists who wanted to seize all of South Africa in prison, so the ANC has immortalized Verwoerd as literally Hitler despite the fact he didn't believe in race.


Ironically you have in a way proven my point: Anglo South Africans considered themselves superior and distinct even compared to Afrikaners, let alone much more foreign and distant ethnic groups.

The irony of the British regime is that it simultaneously was liberal on the issues of things like slavery while deeply hostile and reactionary on issues of things like Republicanism in response to the American and French revolutions and the rise of Napoleon.


Really?

It was the Anglo vote which determined their fate. In English majority places like Durban, 85% voted Yes. Cape Town was one of the only two cities where over 80% of the white population voted to end apartheid in the 1992 referendum. Cape Town has always been the heart of the anti-apartheid movement. Cape Town was the first city to give homage to people like Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki.

https://i.imgur.com/qFJuzzu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S51zBRz.jpg

Since the 1960's the anti-apartheid movement and opposition parties consisted almost entirely of English speaking whites and Jews. The Anglican Church aided and protected ANC terrorists. The exiled ANC leadership set up shop in London and organised their subversion and terrorism from there.

By the time Clinton got elected in November 1992 the referendum to end Apartheid had passed with almost 70% of the vote half a year earlier. Clinton saying "Hey South Africa stop being racist" was just pointless virtue signalling at a time when de Klerk had already decided to sell the whites down the river in exchange for millions of dollars from big Western corporations like De Beers. The chairman of the Anglo-American mining company Gavin Reilly secretly travelled to meet the ANC representatives in Lusaka in 1985. Many other Anglo corporations also had secret meetings with the ANC.

[Hamilcar]

lol not in our case, but our diaspora is a different case altogether and is older than the (modern) state.

yes your diaspora in palestine seems different

[ModernMaskil]

yes your diaspora in palestine seems different

Not even amusing anymore, you're just being retarded.

[Hamilcar]

Not even amusing anymore, you're just being retarded.

haha chill chill nothing serious here

[EternalYouth]

haha chill chill nothing serious here

I am thinking of going to Palestine and becoming the next Ahed Tamimi.

[Hamilcar]

I am thinking of going to Palestine and becoming the next Ahed Tamimi.

haha Don't do that they will use you to justify their "indigenous" european looks

[El_Abominacion]

he was saying that Arabs and South Asians who live in the West (or even in East Africa, in the latter's case) are often rather more traditional, conservative and closed than people in their countries of origin are

I'm not familiar with Arabs but I agree with the South Asian part. Indian Ugandans are extremely wealthy and comprised the ruling class in Uganda. They generated wealth in the region yet were expelled from Uganda under some lunatic communist president, who handed their businesses to natives that completely ruined them and plunged the economy of the country. About a third of the expelled Indians fled to the UK so their existence here is the result of persecution by Africans, which will probably have had something to do with them being more ethnocentric. A couple of decades later the new Ugandan president reluctantly invited them back to save their failing country but not after the formerly Indian businesses were butchered by Ugandans who had no idea how to run them and drove them into the ground.

[Hurrem sultana]

yes thats true for Bosnia often,but not always

[Zeno]

yeah, most greek americans are very conservative but greeks in greece tend to be more liberal

I'd say we're just as conservative here.

[stellan]

I'd say we're just as conservative here.

interesting, most of my friends in greece are pretty liberal and from things i've seen online i thought a lot of greeks have lost their conservativeness

[Zeno]

interesting, most of my friends in greece are pretty liberal and from things i've seen online i thought a lot of greeks have lost their conservativeness

Don't judge from a few hippies. Most Greeks here are pretty conservative in terms of immigration and social issues like homosexual relationships, marriages, trannies etc.

[catgeorge]

Greeks in Greece are very conservative especially the new generation austerity and constant war murmerings has made them into conservative dynamos.. generation X are hippies that sent Greece to its knees. I'm proud of our new generation and its potential.

[Lexx]

Yes, definitely. In some cases even more nationalistic/patriotic.

[Rizza]

Yes. Without a doubt. Something I noticed in Kosovo Albanians.