Interesting haplogroup result

[DomizoDando]

My maternal line is from Spain. My maternal haplogroup is D4j. Apparently this is a very rare haplogroup according to 23andme.

According to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_D_(mtDNA) There doesn't appear to be a single D4j subclade recorded in Spain. Furthermore, lists of mtDNA frequencies in Spain (https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml) don't show haplogroup D, I therefore assume it must be a very rare haplogroup for that region.

While my 23andme did show some Native American (which I knew I had, but it wasn't on the maternal line), it showed no evidence of any East Asian ancestry which is where haplogroup D comes from.

If it helps, my Spanish ancestry originates from Granada, Andalusia.

Can anyone explain this?

[Noble Cuman]

Alans maybe. They are known to settled in Spain after Hunnic invasion. They were descendants of Scythians in East Europe.

[gixajo]

Is frequent that mtdna in Japan?

In Sevilla province, also in Andalusia, there are many descendents from a group of Japaneses that came to Spain in an Embassy during the XVI century.

Their more usual surname is "Japón".

There was a very famous soccer referee called José Japón Sevilla.

[DomizoDando]

Is frequent that mtdna in Japan?

In Sevilla province, also in Andalusia, there are many descendents from a group of Japaneses that came to Spain in an Embassy during the XVI century.

Their more usual surname is "Japón".

There was a very famous soccer referee called José Japón Sevilla.

https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/11/inenglish/1370961238_162476.html

Very interesting I did not know this before. I don't think the surname Japón appears in my family, and I didn't have any trace of East Asian or Japanese ancestry in the DNA test but maybe that's where it came from. If I found out the more specific subclade maybe I could find out if its a Japanese subclade or from somewhere else.

[DomizoDando]

Alans maybe. They are known to settled in Spain after Hunnic invasion. They were descendants of Scythians in East Europe.


I just read about that and that is possible perhaps.

[gixajo]

https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2013/06/11/inenglish/1370961238_162476.html

Very interesting I did not know this before. I don't think the surname Japón appears in my family, and I didn't have any trace of East Asian or Japanese ancestry in the DNA test but maybe that's where it came from. If I found out the more specific subclade maybe I could find out if its a Japanese subclade or from somewhere else.

Maybe comes simply from American natives or Philippine Islands.

Some Spaniard would return from those lands with a native woman and their daughters would inherit that Asian haplotype.

I think it is most likely, but...who knows?

[gixajo]

Anyway, if you were a descendant of those Japanese, the surname Japón, being by maternal line, could have been lost centuries ago, and still have the haplotype related to that surname.

The same does not happen with the paternal line, which in theory (except illegitimate children etc) is directly related to the paternal haplotype (at least with the Spanish order in the surnames)

[Leto]

Is frequent that mtdna in Japan?

In Sevilla province, also in Andalusia, there are many descendents from a group of Japaneses that came to Spain in an Embassy during the XVI century.

Their more usual surname is "Japón".

There was a very famous soccer referee called José Japón Sevilla.
I just googled it and this is what the search engine retrieved


Moro andaluz Juan Manuel Suarez Japon - Italic Roots

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/pkxc3V6X49iwdN0ABo-Eviy93Ri8kuQ_5FapLMIGgingr-6sSuw65n7RSWmYE7eMRpYcv7SbiKTLNXUIoj9LUhsd9Fx1brAO TcXNYlfmK-_jd13clNqCtBa7bbvWEK3cPkMC1_j7yJE5BziiNFYBD4sx7eYf HEx2Lk4yGf-E9sB1X_w9vtABAwY
Looks like some people know every swarthy Spaniard that has ever existed.

[DomizoDando]

Anyway, if you were a descendant of those Japanese, the surname Japón, being by maternal line, could have been lost centuries ago, and still have the haplotype related to that surname.

The same does not happen with the paternal line, which in theory (except illegitimate children etc) is directly related to the paternal haplotype (at least with the Spanish order in the surnames)


What is further interesting is that it looks here that the Japanese who did remain in Spain were 6 samurai.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people_in_Spain#:~:text=The%20surname%20J ap%C3%B3n%20(Spanish%20for,in%20Spain%20was%20SANY O%20Espa%C3%B1a.

That would mean you would expect the Japanese haplogroup to be a paternal haplogroup.

[DomizoDando]

I just saw this

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Haplogroup_D_(mtDNA)#/media/File:Eurasian_frequency_distributions_of_mtDNA_hap logroup_D.png

Virtually non-existent in Europe. It would be interesting to contact someone about it to tell them about a rare find. I heard there are only a few select cases of paternal haplogroup T and A in Northern Europe, maybe this is a similar scenario.

[Leto]

While my 23andme did show some Native American (which I knew I had, but it wasn't on the maternal line),

Since when do British and Scandinavians have Native American? Are you even British?

[DomizoDando]

..

[DomizoDando]

Since when do British and Scandinavians have Native American? Are you even British?

I have some Native American from my maternal great-grandfather, from Brazil. So on my maternal SIDE but not the direct maternal line where the D4j would've come from. Its about 4%.

[Ion Basescul]

こんにちはドミゾさん

[DomizoDando]

こんにちはドミゾさん

I understood what you wrote, maybe it really is from Japan.

[Ion Basescul]

I understood what you wrote, maybe it really is from Japan.

It's an interesting case. In this study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905667/) they looked at over 200 Andalusian mtDNA and no subclade of D was found there.
There is a study on national scale (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4956223/) (table S1), where they found one instance of D4l2 in Catalonia, which is related.

[DomizoDando]

It's an interesting case. In this study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905667/) they looked at over 200 Andalusian mtDNA and no subclade of D was found there.
There is a study on national scale (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4956223/) (table S1), where they found one instance of D4l2 in Catalonia, which is related.


I'm hoping maybe there is somebody else from Spain who might have the same maternal haplogroup, it might shed light on the situation. Do you know of any service which would let me find out which specific subclade of D4j it is? (Preferably for free).

[gixajo]

Well, now that I realize it, in that group of Japanese diplomats there is no evidence that there were women, so they could hardly have brought a maternal haplogroup to Spain.

:picard1:

[Ion Basescul]

I'm hoping maybe there is somebody else from Spain who might have the same maternal haplogroup, it might shed light on the situation. Do you know of any service which would let me find out which specific subclade of D4j it is? (Preferably for free).

No idea honestly, I'm aware of free predictors for yDNA only.