Slavs among Vikings

[vbnetkhio]

Lucas ran 353 Viking samples trough Eurogenes k13 here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?333407-353-Viking-samples-in-K13)

based on their similarity to the other Early slavic samples we have, i think these Viking samples from the new study could be of Slavic or mostly Slavic ancestry:



Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9 .49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0,0,0.79
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7. 09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02 ,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.6, 13.21,0,0,0,0,0,2.03,2.99,1.47
Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54, 1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4. 19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4. 86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85
Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.37,4.01, 8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.7, 4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62 ,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.7 2,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87


these are the early Slavs from earlier studies:



AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,3 0.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56,0.94,0 ,0.46,0
I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89 ,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0.11,0.9 3,0
Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13 .05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0
AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7 .15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17


these also plot close to early Slavs, but they are probably very low quality samples, because they have 0% of West Med, East med or west asian (or maybe not?):



Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK253,30.11,35.37,0,0,18.72 ,0,7.79,0,0,3.56,1.28,3.17,0,0
Viking_Poland_Czersk_VK200,32.66,33.56,4.26,0,10.9 7,9.51,0,0,1.27,7.76,0,0,0,0
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK251,28.95,43.59,8.7,0,7.29 ,5.07,0,2.47,0,3.78,0,0,0.16,0.16
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK457,27.06,46.57,9.09,5.2,0 ,1.45,3.09,2.19,2.29,1.54,1.04,0,0.48,0.48
Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK466,25.85,43.15,9.22,12.8 2,0,0,2.34,0.15,0,2.09,1.69,0,2.69,2.69


the average of all these except the low quality samples:



Early_Slav,28.21,43.11,10.46,6.20,6.54,0.48,1.16,0 .32,1.03,0.79,0.46,0.73,0.51

[Leto]

Distance to: Early_Slav
2.21124399 Ukrainian
2.97674319 South_Polish
3.08925557 Ukrainian_Lviv
4.51446564 Polish
5.39132637 Southwest_Russian
5.57548204 Sorb_Lusatia
5.96903677 Masurian
6.20076608 Ukrainian_Belgorod
6.44835638 Russian_Smolensk
6.63892311 Cossacks_Kuban
6.74361179 Russian
7.05586281 Estonian_Polish
7.18280615 Slovak
7.67295901 Belorussian
7.81646339 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
8.30454695 Czech
8.96581842 Hungarian_Northern
9.65068391 Croat_Croatia_Zagorje
10.37454095 Kargopol_Russian
10.53977229 Croat_Croatia_Central

Target: Early_Slav
Distance: 1.8832% / 1.88318580 | ADC: 1x
79.0 Ukrainian
21.0 South_Polish

Target: Early_Slav
Distance: 1.2900% / 1.29002624 | ADC: 0.5x
46.2 Ukrainian
36.8 South_Polish
14.0 Southwest_Russian
2.8 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.2 Sandawe

Target: Early_Slav
Distance: 0.7077% / 0.70772674 | ADC: 0.25x
39.8 South_Polish
29.4 Ukrainian
23.6 Southwest_Russian
4.4 Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk
2.0 Sorb_Lusatia
0.6 Sandawe
0.2 Ethiopian_Amhara

Glory to Ukraina, you bitches :swl

[vbnetkhio]

updated k13 distances:

<table class="distances"><tbody><tr><th>Distance&nbsp;to:</th><th>Early_Slav</th></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(102.31004804981087, 100%, 50%)">2.21124399</td><td>Ukrainian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(96.1860545058153, 100%, 50%)">2.97674319</td><td>South_Polish</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(95.28595540992937, 100%, 50%)">3.08925557</td><td>Ukrainian_Lviv</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(83.88427489306076, 100%, 50%)">4.51446564</td><td>Polish</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(76.86938906066828, 100%, 50%)">5.39132637</td><td>Southwest_Russian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(75.39614366447674, 100%, 50%)">5.57548204</td><td>Sorb_Lusatia</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(72.24770581427528, 100%, 50%)">5.96903677</td><td>Masurian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(70.39387134637497, 100%, 50%)">6.20076608</td><td>Ukrainian_Belgorod</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(68.41314896216284, 100%, 50%)">6.44835638</td><td>Russian_Smolensk</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(66.88861515644692, 100%, 50%)">6.63892311</td><td>Cossacks_Kuban</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(66.05110566471265, 100%, 50%)">6.74361179</td><td>Russian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(63.553097516338426, 100%, 50%)">7.05586281</td><td>Estonian_Polish</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(62.53755082571979, 100%, 50%)">7.18280615</td><td>Slovak</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(58.61632790391243, 100%, 50%)">7.67295901</td><td>Belorussian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(57.46829284275056, 100%, 50%)">7.81646339</td><td>Ukrainian_Ivano_Frankivsk</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(53.563624421556526, 100%, 50%)">8.30454695</td><td>Czech</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(48.273452613415174, 100%, 50%)">8.96581842</td><td>Hungarian_Northern</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(42.79452869129031, 100%, 50%)">9.65068391</td><td>Croat_Croatia_Zagorje</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(37.003672370399414, 100%, 50%)">10.37454095</td><td>Kargopol_Russian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(35.681821651556064, 100%, 50%)">10.53977229</td><td>Croat_Croatia_Central</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(33.724460013280705, 100%, 50%)">10.78444250</td><td>Slovenian</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(30.33241834419755, 100%, 50%)">11.20844771</td><td>Croat_Croatia_Slavonia</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(29.383974927168637, 100%, 50%)">11.32700313</td><td>Bosniak_Bosnia_proper</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(26.473738447428573, 100%, 50%)">11.69078269</td><td>Hungarian_Alfold</td></tr><tr><td style="color:black;background-color:hsl(23.44381117711822, 100%, 50%)">12.06952360</td><td>Croat_Croatia</td></tr></tbody></table>

Very close to the Ukrainian average, which is made mostly of West Ukrainian samples.

[Leto]

Very close to the Ukrainian average, which is made mostly of West Ukrainian samples.
Not too different from this person
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?329853-Interesting-GM-results-East-Slavic-with-Western-Euro-ancestry

[vbnetkhio]

these 2 samples help explain the low North Atlantic and High Baltic among South Slavs:


Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62 ,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.7 2,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.87

about the mostly East Slavic origin of South Slavs:


The picture that archeology provides on this problem is far from complete. But it tends to support the views of historians convinced of the eastern origin of the Southern Slavs rather than the conclusion of scholars who assume a considerable influx of Western Slav tribes to the Balkans. So far no definite find has been made on the territory of Yugoslavia of the Prague type, which would indicate a movement from Central Europe. The finds of early Slav hand-made pottery are very rare in this region and tend to resemble the Romanian, which is of Eastern Slav origin. As an example we can cite investigations carried out in 1966 near the village of Mušiči on the banks of the Drina. In the ruins of a Roman villa simple semi-subterranean dwellings of oval shape were dug up with sherds from the sixth to seventh century, revealing an undeniably eastern origin. Beside them there were fragments of a different pottery, which probably did not belong to the Slavs but to the remnants of the local Romanized population, who gradually merged with the new arrivals, the Slavs. Similar signs of symbiosis have been discovered in other places, e.g. at Žabljak near Doboj; they also show the character of a later Slavonic culture combined with a number of elements of ancient local tradition.

https://i.imgur.com/iTQ34vr.png

[Jana]

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.2075% / 2.20747415

63.8 Early_Slav
10.4 Abhkasian
8.2 French_Basque
7.8 Norwegian
5.4 Sardinia
4.4 IT_Trentino

[Dušan]

I got these new samples when I added it in ancient K13.

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.2201% / 1.22011360 | ADC: 0.25x
29.2 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
25.6 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
20.2 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp
9.8 scy301_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.2 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
4.6 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
2.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp

[vbnetkhio]

I got these new samples when I added it in ancient K13.

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.2201% / 1.22011360 | ADC: 0.25x
29.2 Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
25.6 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
20.2 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp
9.8 scy301_SG_Moldova_Scythian_SG
8.2 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
4.6 DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
2.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp

mine

Distance: 1.3851% / 1.38506390 | ADC: 0.25x
47.4 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
21.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp
16.8 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
14.4 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp

[andre]

Target: Csango_Siret
Distance: 3.2899% / 3.28986663
56.8 Early_Slav
26.2 IT_Umbria
9.8 North-Dutch
7.2 Turkmen

Target: Andre
Distance: 4.5778% / 4.57776331
49.2 Early_Slav
47.0 IT_Umbria
3.8 Turkmen

[Dušan]

mine

Distance: 1.3851% / 1.38506390 | ADC: 0.25x
47.4 Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
21.4 RISE480_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3550_ybp
16.8 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian_
14.4 I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp

Is I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp Thracian?

[vbnetkhio]

Is I1113_Bulgaria_MP_N_7983_ybp Thracian?

it seems so. it's labeled as neolithic, but it obvoiusly has some indo-European already, it's around 20% north atlantic and Baltic.

[Jana]

Try this, I saved samples from Vbnethkio old model which works great for Balkanites and added these from OP (except low quality samples).


Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65, 9.85,35.91,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0 ,0.26,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,1 3,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64
Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450 _ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.2 5,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55, 21.81,20.01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3 .48,30,9.21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15, 16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34 .15,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,1 2.02,24.41,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0
Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.28 ,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57
Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23. 55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06
Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,20 .48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0
Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.54 ,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0
Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.45 ,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0
Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,17 .49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03
Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12.1 2,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44
Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24. 25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89
Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.3 4,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0
Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68,2 1.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0
Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19. 72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0.4 1
Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79,3 0.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14
Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87,1 5.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0
Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.77 ,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0
Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21. 98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0
Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47,1 6.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0
Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21. 47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15
Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21. 96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0
Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4. 84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0
Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,17 .2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01
Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76, 15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37
Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19.6 9,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87
Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0,2 1.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71
Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,22 .93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4
Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71,2 8.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28
Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19. 52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27
Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,26 .59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,26 .05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0
Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,18 .04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0
Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4. 13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0
Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8.5 ,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0
Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64,2 1.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0
Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,22 .3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0
Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6, 36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24.9 7,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0
Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2,2 1.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0
Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48, 18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20. 11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0
Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23.5 7,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0
Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24. 55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0
Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.3 3,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0
Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92, 19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0
Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.8 2,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0
Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22. 21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0
Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43,1 9.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0
Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_yb p,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0 .11,0.93,0
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_135 6_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56 ,0.94,0,0.46,0
Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,4 5.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0. 42,0
Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71 ,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11, 13.89,9.49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0,0,0.79
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9. 89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4. 19,7.6,13.21,0,0,0,0,0,2.03,2.99,1.47
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56, 6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0. 87

I get fantastic fit!

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 1.7975% / 1.79751284

77.8 Slavic
15.2 Iron_age_Balkan
7.0 Roman

This is first time I get such low fit without need for Germanic and Caucasus samples.

[Dušan]

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.3992% / 1.39920409
69.2 Slavic
20.6 Roman
10.2 Iron_age_Balkan

[vbnetkhio]

Try this, I saved samples from Vbnethkio old model which works great for Balkanites and added these from OP (except low quality samples).


Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp,25.65, 9.85,35.91,0,25.77,1.7,0,0,0,0,0,1.11,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ ybp,24.99,12.62,32.15,0,26.93,2.15,0,0,0.01,0.88,0 ,0.26,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp,30.68,1 3,27.73,10.03,16.07,0.6,0,1.05,0,0.21,0,0,0.64
Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450 _ybp,22.05,11.26,35.23,0.72,25.07,5.42,0,0,0,0,0.2 5,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp,30.55, 21.81,20.01,8.06,12.49,5.56,0,0,0,0.17,1.35,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp,24.62,3 .48,30,9.21,28.33,4.36,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp,23.15, 16.12,30.59,0.13,25.02,3.53,0,0.35,0,0,1.12,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp,34 .15,12.62,23.19,10.39,15.71,3.56,0,0,0.38,0,0,0,0
Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp,33.68,1 2.02,24.41,7.67,19.6,1.39,0,0,0,1.23,0,0,0
Roman:R132_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.49,0,24.28 ,1.26,35.08,12.33,0,1.72,0.41,0,0.6,8.28,2.57
Roman:R80_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,15.29,0.52,23. 55,5.43,37.6,11.68,0,0.2,0,0,0.26,4.42,1.06
Roman:R42_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,0.53,0,15.4,20 .48,43.2,14.76,1.31,1.03,0,0,0,3.29,0
Roman:R1547_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.97,0,17.54 ,19.13,43.1,13.27,2.48,0,0,0,0,2.51,0
Roman:R1550_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.93,0,17.45 ,22.44,37.8,13.78,2.1,0.71,0,0.02,0.31,2.45,0
Roman:R41_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.7,0,21.47,17 .49,39.58,7.59,0.39,1.94,0,0.76,0.14,1.91,0.03
Roman:R67_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.11,0.88,12.1 2,32.7,36.78,9.27,3.73,0.37,0,0.32,0.39,1.9,0.44
Roman:R45_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.66,2.53,24. 25,10.61,36.68,8.16,0,1.14,0,0,1.4,1.69,0.89
Roman:R70_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.21,2.28,19.3 4,21.39,41.91,10.3,0,0,0,0.19,0,1.38,0
Roman:R75_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.62,0,22.68,2 1.74,35.29,9.37,0,0.37,0,0.21,0.47,1.25,0
Roman:R73_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.96,1.16,19. 72,17.3,34.38,11.41,2.22,0.01,0.03,0.19,0,1.21,0.4 1
Roman:R68_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,2.31,0,13.79,3 0.08,39.44,10.13,3.04,0,0,0,0,1.07,0.14
Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,22.71,9.87,1 5.99,12.66,27.94,6.69,0.86,1.18,0,0,1.29,0.81,0
Roman:R76_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,3.62,3.3,16.77 ,23.96,38.85,10.18,1.73,0,0,0.82,0,0.77,0
Roman:R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.98,5.83,21. 98,16.85,28.76,6.43,0,0,0.29,0.72,0.51,0.64,0
Roman:R1543_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.86,0.47,1 6.98,14.67,40.12,7.56,1.33,1.13,0,0.31,0,0.57,0
Roman:R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.25,8.08,21. 47,16.31,31.17,4.53,0,0,0,0.2,1.31,0.53,0.15
Roman:R115_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,8.94,4.56,21. 96,20.12,34.47,7.02,1.72,0.93,0,0,0,0.26,0
Roman:R125_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,15.24,4. 84,25.65,22.02,27.75,3.78,0,0,0,0,0.54,0.18,0
Roman:R1548_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,13.7,7.83,17 .2,21.18,31.85,6.18,0.1,0,1.17,0,0.7,0.07,0.01
Roman:R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.48,7.33,22.76, 15.83,28.17,4.29,2.11,0,0,0.18,0.49,0,1.37
Roman:R50_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.8,5.92,19.6 9,18.96,31.66,8.21,1.77,0.13,0,0,0,0,0.87
Roman:R126_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,6.85,0,2 1.95,22.6,37.03,8.91,0.98,0.75,0,0,0.22,0,0.71
Roman:R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,18.55,6.06,22 .93,13.3,31.22,5.99,0,1.15,0,0.4,0,0,0.4
Roman:R38_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,1.92,0,18.71,2 8.11,41.51,8.68,0,0,0,0.45,0.34,0,0.28
Roman:R40_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.72,0,23,19. 52,36.2,5.66,0,0.47,0.15,0,0,0,0.27
Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,7.27,26 .59,13.06,25.7,1.65,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R113_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,25.73,4.01,26 .05,11.36,28.27,3.92,0,0,0,0.46,0.2,0,0
Roman:R114_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,17.19,6.78,18 .04,19.02,29.56,7.35,0.58,0.77,0,0.7,0,0,0
Roman:R123_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,12.03,4. 13,19.45,20.54,37.07,3.99,0,0.97,0,0,1.83,0,0
Roman:R128_Lazio_Frosinone_Roman_Imperial,2.63,8.5 ,21.08,27.13,34.24,5.03,0,0,0,0.84,0.55,0,0
Roman:R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,16.53,4.64,2 1.39,18.62,31.87,3.82,1.51,0,0.43,0.3,0.89,0,0
Roman:R1545_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.35,3.4,22 .3,23.93,31.78,7.44,0.06,0,0,0,0.73,0,0
Roman:R1551_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.31,0,12.6, 36.12,34.89,8.22,2.15,0.72,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R39_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,9.38,2.57,24.9 7,19.78,34.82,5.66,0,1.74,0.29,0.78,0,0,0
Roman:R43_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.19,0,22.2,2 1.83,39.45,3.15,0.45,0,0,0.08,0.65,0,0
Roman:R44_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,14.45,0,23.48, 18.04,38.86,5.16,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
Roman:R51_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,20.47,1.28,20. 11,15.05,34.89,5.56,0,0.17,0,0.59,1.88,0,0
Roman:R66_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,7.81,1.07,23.5 7,24.26,37.48,4.96,0,0,0,0,0.85,0,0
Roman:R69_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,12.48,4.41,24. 55,22.98,33.7,0.54,0,0.59,0,0.5,0.25,0,0
Roman:R71_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,6.09,0.06,20.3 3,24.54,44.64,3.4,0,0,0,0,0.94,0,0
Roman:R72_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,10.24,0,22.92, 19.04,41.2,5.12,0,0,0.57,0,0.91,0,0
Roman:R78_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,5.76,2.77,22.8 2,22.14,43.72,2.03,0,0.1,0,0.27,0.39,0,0
Roman:R81_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial,11.54,2.43,22. 21,17.14,39.17,4.79,1.98,0,0,0,0.74,0,0
Roman:R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial,17.9,4.35,25.43,1 9.62,29.98,1.61,0,0,0,0.28,0.83,0,0
Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_yb p,30.89,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0,0,2.09,0.47,0 .11,0.93,0
Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_135 6_ybp,30.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0,1.56 ,0.94,0,0.46,0
Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,4 5.83,13.05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0. 42,0
Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71 ,8.24,7.15,0.06,1.56,0,0.48,0.97,0.27,0,0.17
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11, 13.89,9.49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0,0,0.79
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26, 8.62,7.09,7.54,0,1.5,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9. 89,5.02,8.09,0,3.75,0,0.44,0.1,0,1.12,0
Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4. 19,7.6,13.21,0,0,0,0,0,2.03,2.99,1.47
Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.5 3,5.54,1.59,0,1.3,0,1.34,0,0.13,1.42,0.62
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63, 3.49,4.19,0,2.08,0,0,1.86,0.48,1.27,0
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56, 6.08,4.86,0,0,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0,1.85
Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.1,42.86,8.3 7,4.01,8.44,3.37,1.6,0,1.68,2.01,0,0,0.56
Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14. 97,2.7,4.74,0.3,0.73,2.49,0,0.34,1.21,1.4,0
Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11 .7,7.62,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29
Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43. 78,10.72,8.56,9.14,0.26,0,0,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0. 87

I get fantastic fit!

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 1.7975% / 1.79751284

77.8 Slavic
15.2 Iron_age_Balkan
7.0 Roman

This is first time I get such low fit without need for Germanic and Caucasus samples.

Target: i
Distance: 1.2761% / 1.27613503
61.6 Slavic
23.4 Iron_age_Balkan
15.0 Roman

[Jana]

Works great, fit is extraordinary. I'm suprised how much Slavic I score.

[Benyzero]

Target: Benyzero
Distance: 1.5171% / 1.51712902
66.6 Slavic
33.4 Iron_age_Balkan




Distance to: Benyzero
8.45059761 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274
10.61409911 Slavic:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_yb p
11.51487299 Slavic:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
12.80371821 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19
12.91711655 Iron_age_Balkan:I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp
14.44778184 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340
14.96243296 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339
15.28201885 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272
15.88653518 Slavic:Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541
16.66429416 Slavic:Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp
16.78005661 Slavic:Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287
16.85002374 Slavic:Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542
16.87636513 Slavic:Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
18.56863754 Slavic:AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_135 6_ybp
20.94810970 Slavic:Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212
22.14655052 Slavic:Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159
22.18432104 Iron_age_Balkan:I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp
23.27392103 Iron_age_Balkan:I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp
23.35697968 Iron_age_Balkan:I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp
27.26609983 Iron_age_Balkan:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp
30.52805267 Iron_age_Balkan:I2176_Bulgaria_EBA_published_5132_ ybp
31.02815979 Roman:R1549_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
32.08048160 Roman:R111_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
33.25279086 Iron_age_Balkan:Bul6_Bulgaria_Beli_Breyag_EBA_4450 _ybp
33.68105996 Iron_age_Balkan:I2175_Bulgaria_EBA_5122_ybp

[andre]

It’s quite impossible that i have ~55% slavic

Target: Andre
Distance: 0.8027% / 0.80274403
56.2 Slavic
27.0 Roman
16.8 Iron_age_Balkan

[vbnetkhio]

It’s quite impossible that i have ~55% slavic

Target: Andre
Distance: 0.8027% / 0.80274403
56.2 Slavic
27.0 Roman
16.8 Iron_age_Balkan

maybe some of the Slav-Vikings aren't pure Slavs and have some southern admixture.

i would like to hear the opinion of other members.

[vbnetkhio]

after taking another look at the samples, i think only these represent proper proto-Slavs.
the more northern plotting Romanians, Serbs and Bosniaks are pulled strongly towards these exact samples:


Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4. 19,0.00,2.08,0.00,0.00,1.86,0.48,1.27,0.00
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02 ,8.09,0.00,3.75,0.00,0.44,0.10,0.00,1.12,0.00
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7. 09,7.54,0.00,1.50,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0.00
Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.10,42.86,8.37,4.01 ,8.44,3.37,1.60,0.00,1.68,2.01,0.00,0.00,0.56
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.70 ,4.74,0.30,0.73,2.49,0.00,0.34,1.21,1.40,0.00
Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13 .05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0.00,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0 .00
Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.70,7.6 2,7.79,1.05,1.58,0.00,1.18,0.56,0.79,0.00,1.29
Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.7 2,8.56,9.14,0.26,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.8 7

Proto-Slav,25.98,45.03,10.62,5.35,7.04,0.68,1.41,0.41,1. 08,0.88,0.54,0.64,0.34

these are early West and Pannonian Slavs, who probably picked up a western influence immediately after leaving the proto-Slavic homeland.


I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89 ,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0.00,0.00,2.09,0.47,0. 11,0.93,0.00
AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7 .15,0.06,1.56,0.00,0.48,0.97,0.27,0.00,0.17
AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,3 0.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0.00,1.56,0.9 4,0.00,0.46,0.00
Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54, 1.59,0.00,1.30,0.00,1.34,0.00,0.13,1.42,0.62

Early_West_Slav,29.99,43.62,11.08,6.77,4.37,0.33,0 .85,0.00,1.37,0.60,0.13,0.70,0.20

this one is an outlier because of the high east med.
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.60 ,13.21,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.03,2.99,1.47

this one is probably an East Slavic + Scandinavian mix.
Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4. 86,0.00,0.00,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0.00,1.85

edit:
i think this one is also too southern plotting to be an early Slav.
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9 .49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0.00,0.00,0.79

[Jana]

after taking another look at the samples, i think only these represent proper proto-Slavs.
the more northern plotting Romanians, Serbs and Bosniaks are pulled strongly towards these exact samples:


Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159,28.62,50.38,7.63,3.49,4. 19,0.00,2.08,0.00,0.00,1.86,0.48,1.27,0.00
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340,28.29,43.29,9.89,5.02 ,8.09,0.00,3.75,0.00,0.44,0.10,0.00,1.12,0.00
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287,27.47,45.26,8.62,7. 09,7.54,0.00,1.50,0.79,1.13,0.21,0.21,0.16,0.00
Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272,27.10,42.86,8.37,4.01 ,8.44,3.37,1.60,0.00,1.68,2.01,0.00,0.00,0.56
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454,25.59,45.53,14.97,2.70 ,4.74,0.30,0.73,2.49,0.00,0.34,1.21,1.40,0.00
Sunghir6_Russia_Sunghir6.SG_790_ybp,25.17,45.83,13 .05,4.29,6.41,0.44,0.00,0.03,2.59,1.13,0.64,0.42,0 .00
Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.70,7.6 2,7.79,1.05,1.58,0.00,1.18,0.56,0.79,0.00,1.29
Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_VK542,22.48,43.78,10.7 2,8.56,9.14,0.26,0.00,0.00,1.64,0.82,0.98,0.73,0.8 7

Proto-Slav,25.98,45.03,10.62,5.35,7.04,0.68,1.41,0.41,1. 08,0.88,0.54,0.64,0.34

these are early West and Pannonian Slavs, who probably picked up a western influence immediately after leaving the proto-Slavic homeland.


I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_1235_ybp,30.89 ,37.94,12.04,8.95,5.72,0.86,0.00,0.00,2.09,0.47,0. 11,0.93,0.00
AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp,29.17,40.22,11.71,8.24,7 .15,0.06,1.56,0.00,0.48,0.97,0.27,0.00,0.17
AV2_Hungary_Avar_daughter.or.mother.AV1_1356_ybp,3 0.22,47.46,11.05,4.34,3.01,0.41,0.55,0.00,1.56,0.9 4,0.00,0.46,0.00
Viking_Poland_Cedynia_VK212,29.69,48.84,9.53,5.54, 1.59,0.00,1.30,0.00,1.34,0.00,0.13,1.42,0.62
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK274,30.81,34.11,13.89,9 .49,6.21,0.48,2.68,0.16,0.33,1.06,0.00,0.00,0.79

Early_West_Slav,30.16,41.71,11.64,7.31,4.74,0.36,1 .22,0.03,1.16,0.69,0.10,0.56,0.32

this one is an outlier because of the high east med.
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK339,30.19,38.31,4.19,7.60 ,13.21,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,2.03,2.99,1.47

this one is probably an East Slavic + Scandinavian mix.
Viking_Russia_Ladoga_VK19,34.33,39.57,9.56,6.08,4. 86,0.00,0.00,1.29,0.94,1.44,0.09,0.00,1.85

Isn't AV2 strongly northeastern?

[Graham]

https://i.ibb.co/1Gw0r3M/image.png

Above 95% polish like on the study, if you want to play about with these folk.

Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK474,32.29,45.57,8.99,1.99, 5.67,1.55,0.49,0,0,0.93,1.82,0,0.71
Viking_Russia_Kurevanikha_VK160,24.63,54.16,7.49,3 .96,2.47,1.99,1.17,1.75,0.31,0.67,0,0.16,1.25
Viking_Denmark_Funen_VK139,26.2,50.51,9.25,1,7.04, 0.33,0.97,0,0,1.9,0.62,0,2.18
Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_VK541,23.15,43.28,11.7,7.62 ,7.79,1.05,1.58,0,1.18,0.56,0.79,0,1.29

[Nurzat]

Slavs among Vikings

this Rusnak as well (on G25 PC1-PC2 plot) :cool:


yes, I see three individual samples with same PC1 and PC2 coordinates as me (so we all 4 plot in the same point in the 2D graph) and I want to understand how relevant is it:

Sample,PC1,PC2
ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:SBT-A-1,0.125205,0.128972
SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna:vik_stg026,0.125205,0.12897 2
UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky:MJ37,0.125205,0.128972
Carpathian_Rusnak-West_Moldovan:Nurzat,0.125205,0.128972

[Jana]

With only pure proto-Slavic samples my Slavic goes down significantly and I get lot of Germanic :P

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.3966% / 2.39663250

49.0 Slavic
23.8 Germanic
17.0 Iron_age_Balkan
10.2 Roman

[vbnetkhio]

Isn't AV2 strongly northeastern?

i think she's a north shifted proto-Slav + Germanic, so both the NA and Baltic are high. In k13 she is the closest to Poles.

[Dušan]

With only pure proto-Slavic samples my Slavic goes down significantly and I get lot of Germanic :P

Target: Stearsolina
Distance: 2.3966% / 2.39663250

49.0 Slavic
23.8 Germanic
17.0 Iron_age_Balkan
10.2 Roman

No change for me

Target: Dušan
Distance: 1.4081% / 1.40806163
68.6 Slavic
19.2 Roman
12.2 Iron_age_Balkan

[Graham]

VK451 in the supplementary notes.



Lutsk city, Volyn oblast (region), Ukraine
Relevance for the Vikings: Rurik dynasty
Izjaslav Ingvarevych, «Izjaslav, son of Ingvar» (in Ukrainian and Russian languages endings -ovych,
-evych after the name have a meaning «son of») was 13th 1270 century prince of Dorogobuzh, Principality
of Volhynia/Galicia, aged 30-40 according to anthropologist analysis.

Sources of information: Skull was found in 1989 in a tomb on the territory of Lutsk castle (Figs. S1.4 and S1.5).
Archeology report is located in scientific archive of Lutsk State historical and cultural reserve
(Научный архив Государственного историко-культурного заповедника города Луцк).
Archive number: 203, 51 pages. Coordinates: WGS84: 50° 44′ 20″ N, 25° 19′ 23″ E; 50.738889°, 25.323056°

[Nurzat]

Works great, fit is extraordinary. I'm suprised how much Slavic I score.

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.4715% / 1.47153493
70.0 Slavic
21.8 Roman
8.2 Iron_age_Balkan


when I remove Vikings:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.8186% / 1.81861482
68.4 Slavic
19.0 Iron_age_Balkan
12.6 Roman

[Jana]

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.4715% / 1.47153493
70.0 Slavic
21.8 Roman
8.2 Iron_age_Balkan


when I remove Vikings:

Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.8186% / 1.81861482
68.4 Slavic
19.0 Iron_age_Balkan
12.6 Roman

You need to use samples which Vbn marked as proto-Slavic in page before.

[vbnetkhio]

VK451 in the supplementary notes.

any info about these?

Viking_Denmark_Funen_VK139
Viking_Denmark_Jutland_VK340
Viking_Denmark_Langeland_VK287

Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK454
Viking_Sweden_Gotland_VK474

Viking_Russia_Gnezdovo_VK272
Viking_Russia_Kurevanikha_VK160
Viking_Russia_Pskov_VK159

[Leto]

So those are an actual knyaz's results, am I right? Pretty interesting. Can I get his Dodecad K12b?

[vbnetkhio]

So those are an actual knyaz's results, am I right? Pretty interesting. Can I get his Dodecad K12b?

ask Lucas, he has the raw data.
Gleb Svyatoslavich was also tested. maybe some other noblemen too.

[Peterski]

Viking Age Slavs were not really "Early Slavs", because they lived roughly 500 years later than Early Slavs.

By the time of the Viking Age, Slavs were already long divided into West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs.

I think that these samples were ethnic Slavs:
(the ones marked with yellow and orange colors)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?333968-Medieval-North-West-Slavic-averages

https://i.imgur.com/tOZp54H.png

^^^
As well as several others, including these:

VK212
VK287
VK453
VK309

Sandomierz, Cracow and Czersk VK samples were also Slavic.

And several East Slavic samples - such as VK160 and VK541.

====

I would make separate averages for East Slavs, West Slavs, etc. for this time period already. As I did in my thread.

[Peterski]

BTW, samples VK274 and VK254 resemble modern South Slavs. What do you think about them vbnetkhio?

[vbnetkhio]

Viking Age Slavs were not really "Early Slavs", because they lived roughly 500 years later than Early Slavs.

By the time of the Viking Age, Slavs were already long divided into West Slavs, East Slavs and South Slavs.

I think that these samples were ethnic Slavs:
(the ones marked with yellow and orange colors)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?333968-Medieval-North-West-Slavic-averages

https://i.imgur.com/tOZp54H.png

^^^
As well as several others, including these:

VK212
VK287
VK453
VK309

Sandomierz, Cracow and Czersk VK samples were also Slavic.

And several East Slavic samples - such as VK160 and VK541.

====

I would make separate averages for East Slavs, West Slavs, etc. for this time period already. As I did in my thread.

could the ones with 90+% Polish-like be Balts and not Slavs?

[vbnetkhio]

BTW, samples VK274 and VK254 resemble modern South Slavs. What do you think about them vbnetkhio?

probably a case of those Italian admixed Vikings returning to Scandinavia. add some Slavic to the mix, and you get south Slavs.

[Peterski]

could the ones with 90+% Polish-like be Balts and not Slavs?

Rather not, they score like Slavs in calculators. Balts are the ones with 60-70% Polish-like and 30-40% Finnish-like.

For example, check what VK478 and VK475 get in Similitude Map:

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

VK478
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 2.70
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 2.73
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 0.56
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 35.17
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 16.35
Fennoscandian 27.21
French 0
Iberian 0
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 7.46
North_Caucasian 0
North_Sea 7.15
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0.67
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 0
West_Med 0

VK475
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.32
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 4.40
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 4.24
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 33.75
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 20.96
Fennoscandian 16.89
French 3.16
Iberian 0
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 4.82
North_Caucasian 0
North_Sea 10.46
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 0
West_Med 0


probably a case of those Italian admixed Vikings returning to Scandinavia.

But these two samples are from Russia I think?

[PaleoEuropean]

[QUOTE=vbnetkhio;6933450]Lucas ran 353 Viking samples trough Eurogenes k13 here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?333407-353-Viking-samples-in-K13)

based on their similarity to the other Early slavic samples we have, i think these Viking samples from the new study could be of Slavic or mostly Slavic ancestry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wends

[vbnetkhio]

Rather not, they score like Slavs in calculators. Balts are the ones with 60-70% Polish-like and 30-40% Finnish-like.
the 3 most Polish-like samples got cut off from my list on page 1 for being too Baltic in k13 :scratch:



But these two samples are from Russia I think?

one is from Russia, the other from Denmark.

i think we can say only one thing for sure, Lutsk and Chernigov are proto-Slavs.
for all others we need to figure out if they are mixed with the local pre-Slavic population or not.

[Peterski]

the 3 most Polish-like samples got cut off from my list on page 1 for being too Baltic in k13

They score within typical modern Polish range of East_Central_Euro admixture in K36.

And, of course, they score below Lithuanian and Latvian range of East_Central_Euro.

For example:

VK474
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 2.08
Central African 0
Central Euro 9.19
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 10.16
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 23.47
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 15.41
Fennoscandian 14.28
French 6.97
Iberian 4.85
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 4.58
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 8.59
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0.42
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

[Peterski]

Similarity map for VK474 (this one is based on Vadim Verenich's version of raw data):

Very similar to modern Masovians (score 88) or modern Kashubians (score 87), etc.:

https://i.imgur.com/rmlmx9w.png

^^^
Clearly a Slav not a Balt. Probably this applies also to the other two (VK160 & VK139).

You should definitely add these three samples to your Slavic average, they aren't Balts.

[Peterski]

Their K13 results (versions "a" are from Vadim Verenich's raw data files):


VK474a_Gotland,32.95,44.29,9.48,3.42,5.59,0.28,0.1 8,0,0.59,0.81,1.65,0,0.76
VK474b_Gotland,32.28,44.68,9.18,3.35,4.51,1.29,0.6 9,0,0.09,1.28,1.64,0.09,0.92
VK139a_Funen,26.17,50.28,9.09,1.44,7.49,0.38,0.21, 0,0,2.11,0.94,0.55,1.33
VK139b_Funen,25.63,50.09,9.35,2.17,6.5,0.68,0.72,0 ,0,1.96,0.79,0.78,1.32
VK340a_Jutland,28.6,43.79,11.33,4.03,6.3,0.12,3.6, 0,0.42,0.15,0,1.25,0.41
VK340b_Jutland,29.18,44.17,9.8,5.06,6.3,0,3.49,0,0 .44,0.16,0,1.41,0
VK53a_Gotland,31.28,40.33,13.71,3.74,5.76,0.03,0,1 .13,0.18,0.55,0.95,0.87,1.47
VK53b_Gotland,30.83,40.93,14.13,3.56,5.24,0.14,0,1 .23,0.74,0.14,0.85,0.41,1.79
VK157a_Bodzia,37.32,44.98,8.77,0,1.21,4.22,0.7,0,0 ,0.78,0.85,0.6,0.57
VK157b_Bodzia,35.83,43.49,9.43,1.67,1.64,3.4,0.81, 0,0.16,1.16,0.98,0.18,1.25
VK212a_Cedynia,29.2,49.4,8.82,5,2.13,0.2,1.77,0,1. 04,0,0.24,1.79,0.42
VK212b_Cedynia,29.02,49.77,9.02,4.57,2.56,0.12,1.1 9,0,1.16,0,0.25,1.76,0.58
VK453a_Gotland,32.49,42.85,8.85,3.26,3.51,2.68,0,0 ,1.02,0,1.61,3.73,0
VK453b_Gotland,30.73,45.34,8.5,3.69,2.57,2.78,0,0, 1.13,0,1.59,3.68,0
VK287a_Langeland,28.05,43.88,8.79,7.09,8,0,1.56,0. 44,1.3,0.39,0.27,0.23,0
VK287b_Langeland,27,44.27,9.39,7.46,7.63,0,1.66,0. 21,1.37,0.47,0.49,0.06,0
VK309a_Skara,31.83,50.02,9.09,2.12,1.75,2.95,0,0.5 5,0,0,0.97,0,0.71
VK309b_Skara,32.09,49.05,9.46,2.78,1.47,2.71,0,0.4 1,0.1,0,1.19,0,0.72
VK156a_Bodzia,34.65,43.28,9.62,3.13,5.11,0,0,0,0.8 1,2.01,0.98,0,0.4
VK156b_Bodzia,35.34,42.47,8.82,3.62,5.03,0,0,0.31, 1.36,1.9,0.91,0,0.23

And VK160:


VK160a,27.84,53.35,7.03,2.29,2.52,1.95,0.6,2.04,0. 52,0.54,0,0.81,0.51

[vbnetkhio]

---

[Peterski]

Come on, how did you manage classify this guy as a Balt based on K13? This is what he scores in K13 Vahaduo:

Distance to: VK474a_Gotland
4.17789421 Sorb_Lusatia
4.39388211 Masurian
4.49357319 Polish
5.19992308 South_Polish
6.77958701 Ukrainian
6.93230842 Belorussian
7.36159629 Cossacks_Kuban
7.46121304 Russian_Smolensk
7.48264659 Estonian_Polish
7.89739831 Ukrainian_Lviv
8.50425188 Czech

[Leto]

Both Funen samples are extremely similar to my father's K13 (first three components - 50% Baltic, 26% North Atlantic, 9% West Med). Just saying.

[Peterski]

VK160 could be a Balt, but not the other two.

=====

These are Balts for example (just like those two with 30-40% "Finnish-like", although they could also be Livonians):

Distance to: VK434 Gotland_Frojel-01288
0.55059059 LV_Latvia-Karsava
0.61138449 LV_Latvia-Riga
0.72699587 LV_Latvia
0.82939315 LV_Latvia-Dobele
0.86993908 LT_Lithuania-Mazeikiai
0.91781806 LT_Lithuania-Panevezys
0.92560845 LT_Lithuania-Klaipeda
0.93100644 LT_Lithuania-Utena
(...)

Distance to: VK438 Gotland_Frojel-04498
0.81687453 LT_Lithuania-Siauliai
0.82045597 LT_Lithuania-Klaipeda
0.82650166 LT_Lithuania-Mazeikiai
0.87972041 LT_Lithuania-Utena
0.91868003 LT_Lithuania-Kaunas
(...)

These 4 are also Balts:

VK458 Gotland_Frojel-03299_3

VK459 Gotland_Frojel-02198

VK463 Gotland_Frojel-019A89

VK475 Gotland_Kopparsvik-187

[vbnetkhio]

Come on, how did you manage classify this guy as a Balt based on K13? This is what he scores in K13 Vahaduo:

Distance to: VK474a_Gotland
4.17789421 Sorb_Lusatia
4.39388211 Masurian
4.49357319 Polish
5.19992308 South_Polish
6.77958701 Ukrainian
6.93230842 Belorussian
7.36159629 Cossacks_Kuban
7.46121304 Russian_Smolensk
7.48264659 Estonian_Polish
7.89739831 Ukrainian_Lviv
8.50425188 Czech

i'm not sure if it was because of the Balticness. i placed all the Viking samples, and vahaduo k13 updated North/West Euro, Baltic/Finnic and West/East Slavic(+ 4 early Slavic samples) averages on a PCA, and deleted those who visually looked as too big outliers from the West/East/early Slavic cluster.

[Peterski]

These are Germanic (among others):

Funen:

VK316
VK295
VK279
VK446
VK280
VK141
VK312
VK370
VK371
VK372
VK313
VK134

Langeland:

VK367
VK320
VK291
VK275
VK285
VK288
VK364
VK366
VK282
VK289
VK338
VK290

Jutland:

VK582 - Alken Enge
VK300 - Hesselbjerg
VK325 - Ribe
VK323 - Ribe
VK384 - Hesselbjerg
VK324 - Ribe

Oland:

VK522
VK533
VK342
VK343
VK344
VK352
VK337
VK335
VK354
VK348
VK380

Gotland:

VK460
VK48
VK479
VK50

[Peterski]

VK139 looks like modern Russians:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
RUS_Oryol
0.7911182
RUS_Voronezh
0.8516930
RUS_Smolensk
0.8590757
BY_Brest-Region
0.8906834
(...)

[Peterski]

VK160 is borderline Slav/Balt, there are Poles with over 28% and even over 30% East_Central_Euro:

(I have a Polish sample native to Kłobuck in South-West Poland that scores 28% East_Central_Euro):

Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1,11
Central African 0
Central Euro 9,4
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 2,44
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 27,41
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 25,22
Fennoscandian 14,11
French 5,09
Iberian 2,1
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0,55
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 6,44
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 4,62
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1,18
West African 0,33
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

^^^
See, this one has both Lithuanians and Russians among top distances, so he was a Balto-Slavic mix:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
LT_Lithuania-Alytus
0.8159963
RUS_Moscow
0.8479080
RUS_Smolensk
0.8565547
RUS_Pskov
0.8902545
BY_Minsk
0.8962064
LT_Lithuania-Utena
0.9047088
EE_Estonian-Poles
0.9192682
LV_Latvia-Jelgava
0.9418652
RUS_Kursk
0.9564162
LT_Lithuania-Klaipeda
0.9590850
(...)

=====

To sum up, I think you should include VK474 and VK139, but do not include VK160 (clearly mixed with Balts).

[Peterski]

i'm not sure if it was because of the Balticness. i placed all the Viking samples, and vahaduo k13 updated North/West Euro, Baltic/Finnic and West/East Slavic(+ 4 early Slavic samples) averages on a PCA, and deleted those who visually looked as too big outliers from the West/East/early Slavic cluster.

Show me a Lithuanian that is closest to Sorb_Lusatia in K13, except for these which are Poles from Lithuania (or something like that):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?304836-Slavic-admixture-in-South-Lithuania

BTW, my regional averages for Lithuania are based on academic samples but I removed these Slavic-shifted outliers. I have only pure Balts.

In Global25, Davidski added some of the Slavic-shifted "Lithuanians" and there are Polish users who are closest to these samples, see:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=184053&st=3825&p=1910654&#entry1910654

^^^
Polish user Radek is closest to these samples in Global25:

Distance to: Radek_scaled
0.02539729 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-173
0.02556808 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-788
(...)
0.02825192 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-804
(...)
0.02994509 Lithuanian_PA:LTG-1352

^^^
But I uploaded them to GEDmatch and see what they score:

Lithuanian_PA:LTG-173 (South Aukštaitija) - kit UW7999068
Lithuanian_PA:LTG-788 (South Aukštaitija) - kit SU9121750
Lithuanian_PA:LTG-804 (South Aukštaitija) - kit WU8448499
Lithuanian_PA:LTG-1352 (South Aukštaitija) - kit HX2459622

https://i.imgur.com/bpyKLrG.png

LTG-173 in Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 48.53
2 North_Atlantic 30.02
3 West_Med 10.68
4 West_Asian 3.75
5 East_Med 3.68
6 Amerindian 0.97
7 Sub-Saharan 0.86
8 Oceanian 0.78
9 South_Asian 0.71

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Estonian_Polish 3.49
2 Polish 3.5
3 Russian_Smolensk 3.76
4 Belorussian 3.94
5 Ukrainian 6
6 Southwest_Russian 6.05
7 Lithuanian 6.29
(...)

LTG-788 in Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 51.65
2 North_Atlantic 26.96
3 West_Med 9.04
4 East_Med 5.55
5 West_Asian 3.58
6 South_Asian 1.15
7 Siberian 0.95
8 Red_Sea 0.86
9 Amerindian 0.15
10 Oceanian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Estonian_Polish 2.82
2 Belorussian 3.32
3 Russian_Smolensk 3.98
4 Lithuanian 4.75
(...)

LTG-804 in Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 49.51
2 North_Atlantic 26.49
3 West_Med 9.73
4 West_Asian 5.95
5 East_Med 3.49
6 Siberian 2.03
7 South_Asian 0.96
8 Northeast_African 0.93
9 Amerindian 0.61
10 East_Asian 0.28
11 Sub-Saharan 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Estonian_Polish 2.95
2 Russian_Smolensk 3.02
3 Southwest_Russian 3.69
4 Belorussian 4.27
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 4.32
6 Polish 5.48
7 Lithuanian 5.81
(...)

LTG-1352 in Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 49.56
2 North_Atlantic 32.97
3 West_Med 6.15
4 West_Asian 3.85
5 East_Med 3.5
6 South_Asian 1.53
7 Siberian 1.5
8 Oceanian 0.32
9 East_Asian 0.29
10 Amerindian 0.24
11 Sub-Saharan 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Estonian 3.9
2 Belorussian 3.91
3 Estonian_Polish 5.27
4 Russian_Smolensk 5.46
5 Lithuanian 5.73
6 Polish 6.21
(...)

^^^
Do you think these are pure Balts? :)

[Peterski]

BTW, only South Aukštaitija had many (several dozen) Slavic-shifted samples.

Other regions had between several (East Aukštaitija & Kaunas area) and zero.

[vbnetkhio]

BTW, only South Aukštaitija had many (several dozen) Slavic-shifted samples.-UO

Other regions had between several (East Aukštaitija & Kaunas area) and zero.

this is the clustering according to PAST-classical-UPGMA (i named the clusters)
https://i.imgur.com/0kYoUkb.png

sample list:

Baltic VK432_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK439_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK434_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK478_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK531_Norway_Troms_5001A_LNBA_
Baltic VK421_Norway_Nor_South_
Baltic VK463_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK395_Sweden_Skara_
Baltic VK471_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK475_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK458_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK160_Russia_Kurevanikha_
Baltic VK139_Denmark_Funen_
Baltic VK459_Sweden_Gotland_
Baltic VK158_Russia_Pskov_

Germanic+Baltic VK472_Sweden_Gotland_
Germanic+Baltic VK464_Sweden_Gotland_
Germanic+Baltic VK161_Russia_Kurevanikha_
Germanic+Baltic VK461_Sweden_Gotland_
Germanic+Baltic VK462_Sweden_Gotland_
Germanic+Baltic VK21_Russia_Ladoga_
Germanic+Baltic VK441_Sweden_Gotland_

Slavic VK438_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK159_Russia_Pskov_
Slavic VK212_Poland_Cedynia_
Slavic VK457_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK60_Gotland_
Slavic VK452_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK440_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK494_Poland_Sandomierz_
Slavic VK309_Sweden_Skara_
Slavic VK474_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK157_Poland_Bodzia_
Slavic VK453_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK251_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK454_Sweden_Gotland_
Slavic VK287_Denmark_Langeland_
Slavic VK340_Denmark_Jutland_
Slavic VK272_Russia_Gnezdovo_
Slavic VK542_Ukraine_Chernigov_VikingAge_
Slavic VK541_Ukraine_Lutsk_Medieval_
Slavic VK466_Russia_Gnezdovo_

Germanic+Slavic VK17_Russia_Ladoga_
Germanic+Slavic VK579_Oland_1099_1785/67_35_IronAge
Germanic+Slavic VK154_Poland_Bodzia_
Germanic+Slavic VK224_Russia_Gnezdovo_
Germanic+Slavic VK367_Denmark_Langeland_
Germanic+Slavic VK175_UK_Oxford_England_
Germanic+Slavic VK539_Ukraine_Shestovitsa-8870-97_VikingAge_
Germanic+Slavic VK342_Sweden_Oland_
Germanic+Slavic VK354_Sweden_Oland_
Germanic+Slavic VK408_Russia_Ladoga_
Germanic+Slavic VK397_Sweden_Skara_
Germanic+Slavic VK273_Russia_Gnezdovo_
Germanic+Slavic VK156_Poland_Bodzia_
Germanic+Slavic VK19_Russia_Ladoga_
Germanic+Slavic VK443_Sweden_Oland_
Germanic+Slavic VK153_Poland_Bodzia_
Germanic+Slavic VK473_Sweden_Gotland_
Germanic+Slavic VK155_Poland_Bodzia_
Germanic+Slavic VK380_Sweden_Oland_
Germanic+Slavic VK411_Denmark_Funen_
Germanic+Slavic VK359_Sweden_Oland_
Germanic+Slavic VK216_Denmark_Sealand_


in your opinion, is any sample missing from the Slavic cluster, or wrongly assigned to it?

are all Poland Bodzia samples local West Slavs/Poles of the time?

[vbnetkhio]

Their K13 results (versions "a" are from Vadim Verenich's raw data files):


VK474a_Gotland,32.95,44.29,9.48,3.42,5.59,0.28,0.1 8,0,0.59,0.81,1.65,0,0.76
VK474b_Gotland,32.28,44.68,9.18,3.35,4.51,1.29,0.6 9,0,0.09,1.28,1.64,0.09,0.92
VK139a_Funen,26.17,50.28,9.09,1.44,7.49,0.38,0.21, 0,0,2.11,0.94,0.55,1.33
VK139b_Funen,25.63,50.09,9.35,2.17,6.5,0.68,0.72,0 ,0,1.96,0.79,0.78,1.32
VK340a_Jutland,28.6,43.79,11.33,4.03,6.3,0.12,3.6, 0,0.42,0.15,0,1.25,0.41
VK340b_Jutland,29.18,44.17,9.8,5.06,6.3,0,3.49,0,0 .44,0.16,0,1.41,0
VK53a_Gotland,31.28,40.33,13.71,3.74,5.76,0.03,0,1 .13,0.18,0.55,0.95,0.87,1.47
VK53b_Gotland,30.83,40.93,14.13,3.56,5.24,0.14,0,1 .23,0.74,0.14,0.85,0.41,1.79
VK157a_Bodzia,37.32,44.98,8.77,0,1.21,4.22,0.7,0,0 ,0.78,0.85,0.6,0.57
VK157b_Bodzia,35.83,43.49,9.43,1.67,1.64,3.4,0.81, 0,0.16,1.16,0.98,0.18,1.25
VK212a_Cedynia,29.2,49.4,8.82,5,2.13,0.2,1.77,0,1. 04,0,0.24,1.79,0.42
VK212b_Cedynia,29.02,49.77,9.02,4.57,2.56,0.12,1.1 9,0,1.16,0,0.25,1.76,0.58
VK453a_Gotland,32.49,42.85,8.85,3.26,3.51,2.68,0,0 ,1.02,0,1.61,3.73,0
VK453b_Gotland,30.73,45.34,8.5,3.69,2.57,2.78,0,0, 1.13,0,1.59,3.68,0
VK287a_Langeland,28.05,43.88,8.79,7.09,8,0,1.56,0. 44,1.3,0.39,0.27,0.23,0
VK287b_Langeland,27,44.27,9.39,7.46,7.63,0,1.66,0. 21,1.37,0.47,0.49,0.06,0
VK309a_Skara,31.83,50.02,9.09,2.12,1.75,2.95,0,0.5 5,0,0,0.97,0,0.71
VK309b_Skara,32.09,49.05,9.46,2.78,1.47,2.71,0,0.4 1,0.1,0,1.19,0,0.72
VK156a_Bodzia,34.65,43.28,9.62,3.13,5.11,0,0,0,0.8 1,2.01,0.98,0,0.4
VK156b_Bodzia,35.34,42.47,8.82,3.62,5.03,0,0,0.31, 1.36,1.9,0.91,0,0.23

And VK160:


VK160a,27.84,53.35,7.03,2.29,2.52,1.95,0.6,2.04,0. 52,0.54,0,0.81,0.51

i marked these samples on the PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/nFganS5.png

where is the VK53 sample from? it was posted on Anthrogenica? it isn't among the results Lucas posted here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?333407-353-Viking-samples-in-K13

[Peterski]

are all Poland Bodzia samples local West Slavs/Poles of the time?

Not all of them but I think VK156 could be Slavic and VK139 as well.

You can also see in your PCA that VK474 is inside of the Slavic cluster.

Anyway, I'm not calling these people "Early Slavs" because they lived around 500 years after the Slavic expansion. I'm just calling them Medieval Slavs.


where is the VK53 sample from? it was posted on Anthrogenica?

Yes.

[vbnetkhio]

Yes.

could you post the k13 results of all of them?

[Peterski]

Here you have the rest:


VK1,54.18,27.18,11.25,3.27,0,0,1.68,0.04,0.2,0.78, 0.75,0.68,0
VK101,46.36,24.55,12.37,8.67,1.61,0.92,1.27,0.99,0 ,1.51,0.97,0,0.77
VK102,53.29,24.91,9.62,5.71,1.14,1.3,0.78,0.18,0.1 3,1.12,0.63,0,1.19
VK108,47.56,31.94,7.54,7.85,1.06,0.09,1.06,0,0.02, 1.7,0,0.88,0.3
VK11,46.25,32.79,9.74,2.33,5,0.71,0.63,0,0,1.41,0, 0,1.14
VK110,54.29,21.1,11.57,7.09,1.54,0.26,1.6,1.12,0,0 .48,0.36,0.58,0
VK111,48.49,23.08,17.34,2.34,4.33,0.42,2.8,0,1,0.1 9,0,0,0
VK113,55.12,21.97,13,2.37,0,0.64,4.28,0,0,1.27,1.3 6,0,0
VK114,44.33,24.35,10.79,13.08,1.68,2.05,2.24,0,0,0 ,0,1.48,0
VK116,61.1,28.62,0,0,0,8.23,0,0,0,0,2.05,0,0
VK117,49.37,28.07,10.08,4.02,3.06,1.32,0.95,0.39,0 ,0.59,0.04,1.59,0.54
VK118,48.28,22.49,14.14,3.58,5.27,3.15,0,0,2.17,0. 19,0.45,0,0.28
VK122,42.43,30.84,13.6,2.89,2.06,2.25,1.65,0.77,1. 63,0.29,0.9,0,0.69
VK123,46.52,24.04,13.01,5.58,5.22,0.52,1.31,0.21,1 .28,1.41,0,0.92,0
VK124,44.9,30.55,7.03,10.81,0.67,0,0,0,0.95,2.1,0. 91,2.08,0
VK125,40.73,34.1,0.86,5.26,0,16.43,0,0,0,2.34,0.28 ,0,0
VK127,50.14,24.68,12.65,4.45,3.57,0,0.25,0,1.38,0. 44,0.47,1.12,0.84
VK128,49.01,29.31,11.5,2.72,0.45,1.93,0.27,0,1.23, 1.43,1.11,0,1.05
VK129,45.66,31.86,9.07,1.74,0,1.15,3.33,0,4.25,1.0 3,0.42,1.1,0.38
VK133,56.49,29.06,6.91,0,2.49,0,1.92,0.32,0,0.75,0 ,2.07,0
VK134,49.25,31.68,11.44,3.29,0.79,1.29,0,0.1,0.18, 1.17,0.66,0,0.16
VK135,75.63,7.95,4.77,5.72,1.13,0,0,0,0,4.79,0,0,0
VK138,46.08,20.77,17.08,6.6,6.7,0.54,0,0,0,0,0.52, 1.36,0.35
VK14,52.7,28.47,9.7,1.3,0.83,0.12,1.12,0,0,2.23,0, 3.54,0
VK140,57.71,25.5,0,0,12.73,0,0.78,2.15,0,0,0.5,0,0 .63
VK141,50.81,32.29,7.86,3.15,0,0.7,3.54,0.02,0.12,0 .26,0,0.2,1.06
VK143,50.89,27.97,9,4.46,0.98,1.45,1.55,0.08,1.11, 0.04,0.7,1.3,0.49
VK144,44.25,30.31,8.37,0.58,10.48,0,1.15,0.09,0,1. 05,1.14,0,2.59
VK145,42.77,30.53,9.13,7.8,4.25,1.74,0,0.29,0.99,0 .99,0.17,0.28,1.06
VK146,34.93,18.54,21.21,8.94,11.06,0.84,1.85,0,0,1 .07,0.36,0,1.21
VK147,47.5,30.01,12.05,4.78,0,0.92,0.53,0.72,1.27, 1.01,0,0,1.22
VK148,45.17,28.03,18.04,0,0,0,1.69,0,0,3.47,0,0,3. 59
VK149,41.56,12.95,16.87,13.52,0,2.7,7.36,5.04,0,0, 0,0,0
VK15,48.97,25.31,12.39,4.36,2.23,1.22,1.55,0,0.74, 1.01,1.59,0,0.63
VK150,44.94,22.81,14.65,3.88,8.72,0.6,2.25,0,0.08, 1.71,0.03,0.32,0
VK151,53.32,27.69,6.24,6.37,0,0,2.1,0.95,0.47,0.92 ,0.58,0,1.37
VK153,40.31,39.24,8.63,5.44,0,1.75,1.53,1,0.5,1.59 ,0,0,0
VK154,39.81,44.25,7.38,3.25,0,0.56,0.58,1.05,0,1.8 9,0,0,1.25
VK155,36.91,39.28,11.88,5.76,0,1.34,1.57,0,0,2.62, 0.39,0,0.25
VK158,18.83,51.37,18.95,4.8,0,1.32,0,2.59,0.87,1.2 7,0,0,0
VK159,29.21,50.4,7.62,2.73,4.28,0.03,2.31,0,0,1.78 ,0.56,1.08,0
VK16,45.99,27.2,8.24,0.05,7.44,3.12,2.17,0.83,1.72 ,1.27,0,1.97,0
VK160,27.84,53.35,7.03,2.29,2.52,1.95,0.6,2.04,0.5 2,0.54,0,0.81,0.51
VK161,33.05,53.14,0,0,3.86,7.43,0,0,0,0.47,0.75,1. 29,0
VK163,47.34,33.57,13.67,0,0,3.22,0,0,0,0,1.02,1.18 ,0
VK164,0,63.3,8.72,27.76,0,0.23,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
VK165,49.32,28.85,10.09,4.68,0,0.48,0.01,1.71,2.01 ,0.62,0.95,0,1.27
VK166,43.29,25.5,15.75,4.15,5.72,0.96,0.88,2.76,0, 0.03,0.81,0.15,0
VK167,48.97,31.8,6.41,3.8,2.36,1.45,1.62,0.85,0,1. 79,0.36,0.61,0
VK168,53.95,27.31,10.48,2.16,0,0.06,2.71,1.1,0.33, 0.57,0,0,1.34
VK17,42.25,44.06,6.97,0,2.1,0,0,0,2.75,0,0.12,0,1. 75
VK170,46.81,30.37,11.09,3.81,0,0,2.62,0,1.85,1.99, 0.03,0.77,0.66
VK171,52.35,19.78,12.87,11.14,0,0,0,1.97,0,0,0.02, 1.86,0
VK172,50.88,29.73,7.21,2.68,4.12,0,3.16,0,0.17,1.3 ,0,0,0.74
VK173,49.78,26.08,13.81,3.34,0.38,2.08,1.76,0.49,0 .26,0.95,0,0,1.06
VK174,47.6,28.95,11.46,5.53,0.3,0,2.93,0.63,0.64,0 .27,1.14,0.08,0.45
VK175,47.11,37.93,5.93,3.16,1.17,0,0,0,1.08,1.03,0 ,1.6,0.99
VK176,47.28,31.5,8.63,3.98,0,2.35,1.07,0,1.21,1.17 ,0.45,0.69,1.67
VK177,45.69,22.51,18.36,7.61,0.97,0,0.12,1.07,1.06 ,0,0.53,0.69,1.38
VK178,47.25,24.79,13.2,4.1,2.76,1.51,2.86,0,0,2.03 ,0,0.16,1.34
VK179,50.23,27.91,9.69,6.36,0,0,1.34,0.29,2,0.69,0 .12,0.45,0.92
VK18,42.38,40.54,7.09,1.57,0,0,1.48,0.05,3.91,0.4, 0.75,1.12,0.7
VK180,45.16,27.17,13.03,0,0,0,4.1,0,5.12,5.42,0,0, 0
VK182,34.81,31.58,8.63,7.86,11.3,1.16,1.09,0,0,0,1 .71,1.86,0
VK183,53.72,25.85,9.38,4.11,0,4.02,0.16,0.35,0.7,1 .57,0,0.15,0
VK184,49.89,27.37,10.11,7.05,0,0,0.32,0,2.28,0.38, 0.67,0.64,1.3
VK185,72.49,26.1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.41,0,0
VK186,50.71,28.74,11.76,4.43,0,0.58,0,0.59,0.49,0, 1,0,1.7
VK187,47.8,25.68,13.1,2.56,5.08,0,0,0.17,2.73,0.1, 0.75,1.27,0.76
VK189,48.91,27.74,9.4,2.81,0.48,2.46,4.25,0,0.1,1. 09,1.45,0,1.31
VK19,34.34,39.61,10.32,6.6,3.07,0.21,0,1.01,1.15,1 .68,0,0,2.01
VK190,50.55,27.32,8.93,9.09,0,0,2.12,0,1.15,0.19,0 ,0,0.66
VK191,45.78,25.55,13.07,5.71,0,0,4.56,0.14,0,4.58, 0.62,0,0
VK193,43.17,20.61,18.13,10.75,0.88,0,0,1.66,1.34,0 .02,2.89,0.55,0
VK196,44.14,29.28,13.09,0.86,0,0,7.05,2.86,1.27,0, 0.62,0.81,0.03
VK20,53.59,31.06,7.08,1.61,0,0,0,0,2.72,1.61,1.48, 0.85,0
VK200,31.65,33.04,6.09,0,11.08,9.41,0,0,0.85,7.87, 0,0,0
VK201,55.44,21.37,10.85,7.9,0.86,1.22,0.04,0,0,0.5 6,1.3,0.26,0.22
VK202,52.74,21.46,14.53,4.31,0.3,0.49,2.71,0,0,2.0 7,0.34,0.15,0.91
VK203,51.37,25.04,11.52,7.42,0,0.08,3.18,0,0.26,0, 0.58,0,0.55
VK204,53.28,26.87,8.59,7.06,0.52,0.88,0,2.01,0.18, 0,0.42,0.2,0
VK205,52.38,22.1,9.91,5.54,5.55,1.55,0,0,0.9,1.13, 0.14,0.79,0
VK206,35.45,37.6,0,8.57,12.16,0,0,0,6.23,0,0,0,0
VK207,51.45,22.03,15.64,6.04,0.96,0.58,0.06,0,0.74 ,0.65,0.77,0.79,0.29
VK208,57.13,11.44,17.81,9.62,0,0,0,0,0,1.01,0,0.45 ,2.54
VK21,37.13,42.96,4.4,0.43,1.78,3.28,0,0,6.78,0.25, 0.88,2.11,0
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VK298,56.75,27.04,6.58,6.16,0,0,0.36,0,0,0.14,0.24 ,2.73,0
VK30,45.09,26.91,11.5,7.41,3.82,1.84,0,0,1.07,0.97 ,0.14,1.24,0
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VK303,48.28,31.27,10.95,1.29,2.09,2.49,0,0,0.42,1. 26,0.32,1.48,0.14
VK304,57.82,26.79,9.22,0,0,0.52,0.34,0,0,0,0,0,5.3 2
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VK31,47.05,24.25,11.48,7.39,4.1,4.35,0.43,0,0.94,0 ,0,0,0
VK312,48.9,29.14,9.59,3.82,3.28,0,0.82,1.38,0,1.74 ,1.09,0,0.24
VK313,39.27,37.67,12.03,2.37,2.85,2.36,1.74,0,0.8, 0.29,0.62,0,0
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VK58,53.26,26.13,8.86,5.26,1.89,1.6,0,0.7,0,0.67,0 .29,0.58,0.77
VK582,54.24,25.98,11.05,3.85,1.31,0,2.96,0,0.62,0, 0,0,0
VK6,48.68,25.58,10.94,2.9,7.6,1.67,1.2,0.49,0.1,0, 0.38,0,0.48
VK60,35.17,51.79,5.95,1.21,2.52,0,0.96,0,0,0.52,0. 3,0.44,1.12
VK63,42.02,23.83,15.87,11.31,0,4.38,1.36,1,0,0.06, 0,0,0.17
VK64,37.74,39.06,12.03,6.86,0,0,2.21,0,0.72,0.38,0 ,0.98,0
VK65,46.93,21.37,18.79,0,7.29,1.42,1.76,0,0,1.5,0, 0.93,0
VK69,52.3,26.08,6.9,6.65,0,1.93,0,1.15,0,1.27,0.93 ,0,2.8
VK70,52.29,23.74,12.54,6.47,0.3,0,0.81,1.13,0.06,1 .05,0.67,0,0.94
VK71,50.44,30.82,9.69,0.59,2.98,0,0,0,0,1.69,3.35, 0,0.45
VK74,42.44,0,4.53,0,32.82,9.59,0,0,0,0,0,0.35,10.2 6
VK75,48.41,26.82,11.66,9.19,0,0,1.63,0,0.53,1.24,0 .37,0.14,0
VK76,36.34,20.56,0,0,29.9,1.99,0,0,4.85,1.03,5.33, 0,0
VK77,59.95,16.17,1.32,16.32,0,4.14,2.09,0,0,0,0,0, 0
VK78,55.4,17.72,7.15,11.26,0,0,0,0,0,6.42,0.52,0.5 3,0.99
VK84,44.45,16.34,18.43,4.45,9.16,1.98,2.32,0.9,0,1 ,0.86,0.1,0
VK86,31.68,36.63,4.71,0,9.28,0,0,13.79,0,0,3.91,0, 0
VK87,42.76,21.29,14.4,6.29,11.29,0.79,0,0.3,0.01,1 .54,0.72,0.6,0
VK9,56.72,27.87,7.95,3.98,0,0,0,0,0,1.5,1.15,0.83, 0
VK90,40.01,18.04,20.05,3.95,12.22,1.29,0,0,0.31,2. 11,1.05,0.96,0
VK92,55.3,24.27,12.16,5.7,0,0,0.17,0,0,2.12,0.16,0 .11,0
VK94,46.32,26.99,15.02,3.26,3.48,0,4.14,0.45,0,0,0 ,0,0.33
VK95,49.42,20.25,14.83,2.82,4.98,1.59,2.96,0,1.13, 1.14,0.06,0.48,0.34
VK98,46.17,30.06,8.21,5.21,4.54,0,1.85,0,0.58,1.8, 0.46,0.71,0.42
VK99,49.41,24.8,12.21,6.57,0,1.84,0.9,0.32,1.31,2. 32,0.33,0,0.01

[Peterski]

Check these two more Early Slavs:

Eurogenes K15 results for KRA011 and KRA001:


KRA011,21.91,17.57,30.99,21.24,4.26,1.03,0,0.26,0. 03,0,0,0.48,1.02,0.93,0.28
KRA001,22.96,11.65,29.91,20.10,7.48,4.74,0,0,1.46, 0,0,0.65,0.57,0,0.49

Eurogenes K13 results for KRA011 and KRA001:


KRA011,29.56,50.68,8.38,2.39,2.54,1.03,1.30,0.14,0 ,1.40,1.27,1.10,0.21
KRA001,25.47,47.56,12.36,7.54,1.32,0,2.43,0.52,0.0 1,1.20,0.71,0.61,0.27

[Peterski]

Third sample, KRA003 (years 1059-1223):

Eurogenes K15:


KRA003,29.25,15.30,24.08,20.82,6.24,0,0,0.07,0,0.0 2,0.72,0.47,1.25,1.58,0.20

Eurogenes K13:


KRA003,36.22,42.47,9.53,1.80,2.24,1.07,0.38,0.11,1 .99,0.77,1.59,1.57,0.25