Lemko highlanders from Jasło & Gorlice Counties

[Peterski]

Lemkos (Ukrainian-speaking highlanders in South-East Poland):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos

Lemko1 (this one is fully from Jasło county)

GEDmatch A409XXX

According to GEDCOM ancestors are from Pielgrzymka, Kłopotnica and Wola Cieklińska (all Lemko villages):

https://i.imgur.com/MWZsvnO.png

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 30.39 Pct
Baltic 35.46 Pct
West_Med 13.40 Pct
West_Asian 9.55 Pct
East_Med 9.49 Pct
Red_Sea 0.97 Pct
South_Asian 0.45 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.21 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.08 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 18.26 Pct
Atlantic 20.57 Pct
Baltic 25.73 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.82 Pct
West_Med 8.16 Pct
West_Asian 8.42 Pct
East_Med 5.19 Pct
Red_Sea 0.85 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 1.83 Pct
Basque 1.95 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.73 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.22 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 23.23 Pct
East_Med 0.65 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 5.17 Pct
French 5.91 Pct
Iberian 9.07 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.45 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 7.61 Pct
North_Caucasian 7.90 Pct
North_Sea 6.07 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.52 Pct

=====

Lemko2 (this one is partly from Jasło county, partly from Gorlice county):

GEDmatch A039XXX

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 26.67 Pct
Baltic 38.22 Pct
West_Med 16.97 Pct
West_Asian 8.25 Pct
East_Med 7.49 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.95 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.45 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 17.61 Pct
Atlantic 17.62 Pct
Baltic 25.56 Pct
Eastern_Euro 15.50 Pct
West_Med 12.16 Pct
West_Asian 7.70 Pct
East_Med 2.93 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.74 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.17 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 3.01 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.06 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 11.07 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 18.57 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 12.38 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.81 Pct
French 2.38 Pct
Iberian 9.66 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.76 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 3.78 Pct
North_Caucasian 3.42 Pct
North_Sea 5.48 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.76 Pct
West_Med 2.86 Pct

=====

Lemko3 (this one is partly from Jasło county, partly from Gorlice county):

GEDmatch T515XXX

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 28.18 Pct
Baltic 37.37 Pct
West_Med 14.55 Pct
West_Asian 5.94 Pct
East_Med 10.63 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.70 Pct
East_Asian 1.00 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.03 Pct
Oceanian 0.58 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 17.59 Pct
Atlantic 19.52 Pct
Baltic 25.40 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.25 Pct
West_Med 9.79 Pct
West_Asian 5.12 Pct
East_Med 6.64 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.30 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.37 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.63 Pct
Oceanian 0.39 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.76 Pct
Basque 0.72 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.30 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 10.00 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 21.46 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 7.45 Pct
Fennoscandian 6.64 Pct
French 5.09 Pct
Iberian 3.80 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 7.66 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8.94 Pct
North_Caucasian 3.06 Pct
North_Sea 7.28 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.57 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.27 Pct

=====

Lemko4 (this one is fully from Gorlice county):

GEDmatch T631XXX

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 25.72 Pct
Baltic 39.53 Pct
West_Med 14.62 Pct
West_Asian 5.61 Pct
East_Med 10.31 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.54 Pct
East_Asian 1.32 Pct
Siberian 0.06 Pct
Amerindian 1.35 Pct
Oceanian 0.95 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 13.63 Pct
Atlantic 19.27 Pct
Baltic 27.57 Pct
Eastern_Euro 16.01 Pct
West_Med 9.77 Pct
West_Asian 5.84 Pct
East_Med 5.54 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.66 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.94 Pct
Oceanian 0.75 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian 1.10 Pct
Basque 1.38 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.96 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.94 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 22.51 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 11.52 Pct
Fennoscandian 5.93 Pct
French 1.13 Pct
Iberian 7.44 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.25 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.92 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.73 Pct
North_Sea 7.56 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.19 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.12 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 3.17 Pct

[Peterski]

^^^
Distances of PL_Lemkos average (n=4) to my other averages:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
SK_Zemplin-Rusyns
0.5898661
SK_Slovakia:Avg
0.6613282
HU_North-Great-Plain
0.7062160
HR_Croatia-Zagreb
0.7439167
SVN_Slovenia:Avg
0.7739141
HU_North-Hungary
0.8093411
(...)

[rothaer]

^^^
Distances of PL_Lemkos average (n=4) to my other averages:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
SK_Zemplin-Rusyns
0.5898661
SK_Slovakia:Avg
0.6613282
HU_North-Great-Plain
0.7062160
HR_Croatia-Zagreb
0.7439167
SVN_Slovenia:Avg
0.7739141
HU_North-Hungary
0.8093411
(...)

Do you think they have Vlach admixture or are they like that independently of Vlach migration along the Carpaths?

[smd555]

Do you think they have Vlach admixture or are they like that independently of Vlach migration along the Carpaths?

Ukrainian Carpathian ethnographic groups - Lemkos, Boykos, Hutsuls - genetically and anthropologically are more close to Central European populations - Slovaks, Croats, Hungarians, but not to Vlachs. As for me, south-western Ukrainians belong to nominal "Celto-Illyrian" genetiсal cluster, while Vlachs, almost Romanians and Bulgarians belong to nominal "Thraсian" cluster. Thats why I think, that south-western Ukrainian genetic specificity is due to the assimilation not of the Vlachs, but of some other ethnic groups.

[Peterski]

Do you think they have Vlach admixture or are they like that independently of Vlach migration along the Carpaths?

They do have Vlach (Balkan) admixture for sure.


Ukrainian Carpathian ethnographic groups - Lemkos, Boykos, Hutsuls - genetically and anthropologically are more close to Central European populations - Slovaks, Croats, Hungarians, but not to Vlachs.

Of course, but it does not mean that they have no Vlach admixture. Moreover, they also have Polish admixture.

There had been Polish settlement along the Carpathians before Lemkos came, and they assimilated those Poles.

Croats, Slovaks & Hungarians also have Balkan / South-East Europan admixture - not necessarily from Vlachs.

[Daco Celtic]

They do have Vlach (Balkan) admixture for sure.



Of course, but it does not mean that they have no Vlach admixture. Moreover, they also have Polish admixture.

There had been Polish settlement along the Carpathians before Lemkos came, and they assimilated those Poles.

Croats, Slovaks & Hungarians also have Balkan / South-East Europan admixture - not necessarily from Vlachs.

The pattern seems to be that Vlachs became culturally dominate in certain highland Carpathian regions but much of their genetic legacy is washed out by mixture with local populations.

[Peterski]

The pattern seems to be that Vlachs became culturally dominate in certain highland Carpathian regions but much of their genetic legacy is washed out by mixture with local populations.

And their linguistic legacy is washed out as well - all of these highlanders groups are Slavic-speaking, not Romance-speaking anymore.

But Lemkos as you can see cluster genetically with populations living to the south of Carpathians, despite living to the north themselves.

Polish-speaking highlanders (gorals) usually cluster with Poles (= north of the Carpathians), so have even less of Vlach DNA than Lemkos.

[smd555]

There had been Polish settlement along the Carpathians before Lemkos came, and they assimilated those Poles.



What century was it?

[smd555]

The pattern seems to be that Vlachs became culturally dominate in certain highland Carpathian regions but much of their genetic legacy is washed out by mixture with local populations.

Vlachs were called not only the Roman-speaking population, but also all the settlers according to Vlach law.

[Jana]

They are direct descendants of White Croats mixed with medieval Vlach migrants. This was their ethnogenesis.

[Aspirin]

Do you think they have Vlach admixture or are they like that independently of Vlach migration along the Carpaths?

They have, since they are southern shifted Eastern Slavs who have higher East Med and lower Baltic.

[smd555]

Polish-speaking highlanders (gorals) usually cluster with Poles (= north of the Carpathians), so have even less of Vlach DNA than Lemkos.

According to your logic Croats, Slovaks and Hungarians also have strong Vlach admixture, because they are close to Ukrainian highlanders.

[Jana]

According to your logic Croats, Slovaks and Hungarians also have strong Vlach admixture, because they are close to Ukrainian Highlanders.

We do. Slovaks are more purely Slavic though, from what I've seen Slovaks have less Balkan DNA than Rusyns (but keep in mind some eastern Slovaks are assimilated Rusyns).
And Hungarians other than Slavic and Balkan have significant German input.

[Jana]

My father shares Y-DNA subclade with a Pole from Subcarpathian Voivodeship btw.

[Varda]

My father shares Y-DNA subclade with a Pole from Subcarpathian Voivodeship btw.

Srbin

[Jana]

Srbin

Unfortunately for you, ancient Serbs share absolutely zero relations with Carpathians. the fact you don't have lot of relations with east Germany and west Bohemia is your problem.
Modern Serbs who match Rusyns are nothing more than paternally serbified Croats trough spread of orthodox Church to our historical Lands during Ottoman Empire.

[smd555]

We do. Slovaks are more purely Slavic though, from what I've seen Slovaks have less Balkan DNA than Rusyns (but keep in mind some eastern Slovaks are assimilated Rusyns).
And Hungarians other than Slavic and Balkan have significant German input.

Balkans is very broad concept.I noted for a reason "Celto-Illyrian" genetic cluster (north-western Balkans), connected with Central Europe and "Thracian"/"Greek" cluster (southern and south-eastern Balkans), which differ between each other. South-western Ukrainians belong to "Celto-Illyrian", they have strong western/south-western influence and their genetics cannot be explained by the mixture of Slavs and Vlachs. I think, that Vlach influence was very little, Ukrainians assimilated more ancient non-Vlach substrate.

[Varda]

Unfortunately for you, ancient Serbs share absolutely zero relations with Carpathians. the fact you don't have lot of relations with east Germany and west Bohemia is your problem.
Modern Serbs who match Rusyns are nothing more than paternally serbified Croats trough spread of orthodox Church to our historical Lands during Ottoman Empire.


Serbified Croatians from Bileća and Šumadija :picard1: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-FT76511/


This is one of the indications for Serbian origin of Lemko, Gagauz from Moldova with surname Sirf (Serb) have a match with Serbian clan Nikšić https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y52621/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikšići_(tribe)

[Jana]

Serbified Croatians from Bileća and Šumadija :picard1: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-FT76511/


This is one of the indications for Serbian origin of Lemko, Gagauz from Moldova with surname Sirf (Serb) have a match with Serbian clan Nikšić https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y52621/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikšići_(tribe)

Consider suicide.


Several hypotheses account for the origin of the Hutsuls, however, like all the Rusyns, they most probably have a diverse ethnogenetic origin. The Lemkos (and other Carpatho-Rusyns) are considered to be descendants of the medieval White Croats,[9][10][11][12][13][14][15] affected by the migration of Ruthenian-influenced Slovaks[15] and the Vlach/Romanian migrations in the 14th and 15th centuries.[9][15][16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos#:~:text=%D0%9Be%D0%BC%D0%BAo%2C%20Lemko)%20 are%20an%20ethnic,of%20Rusyns%20and%2For%20Ukraini ans.

[Varda]

Consider suicide.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos#:~:text=%D0%9Be%D0%BC%D0%BAo%2C%20Lemko)%20 are%20an%20ethnic,of%20Rusyns%20and%2For%20Ukraini ans.

Gagauz with surname Sirf (Serb) carry same clade as old Serbian clan originated from modern Montenegro branched
among Serbs from many regions https://forebears.io/surnames/sirf

Slavic influence on Gagauz is from Bojka/Lemko people.

[Jana]

Gagauz with surname Sirf (Serb) carry same clade as old Serbian clan originated from modern Montenegro branched
among Serbs from many regions https://forebears.io/surnames/sirf

Slavic influence on Gagauz is from Bojka/Lemko people.

Gagauz are originally from Bulgaria as far as I know.

[Polak]

Balkans is very broad concept.I noted for a reason "Celto-Illyrian" genetic cluster (north-western Balkans), connected with Central Europe and "Thracian"/"Greek" cluster (southern and south-eastern Balkans), which differ between each other. South-western Ukrainians belong to "Celto-Illyrian", they have strong western/south-western influence and their genetics cannot be explained by the mixture of Slavs and Vlachs. I think, that Vlach influence was very little, Ukrainians assimilated more ancient non-Vlach substrate.

My grandfather was a South-Western Ukrainian. How can I tell if he and I had/have Balkan (Celto-Illyrian) admix?

[Abriekman]

My grandfather was a South-Western Ukrainian. How can I tell if he and I had/have Balkan (Celto-Illyrian) admix?

If you do not have recent Balkanic ancestry and score a bit of Greek and Balkan on 23andme that means he had Balkan admix

[Varda]

Gagauz are originally from Bulgaria as far as I know.

Serbian name in Ukraine exist in toponyms and it was not fell from the sky http://www.maplandia.com/ukraine/chernivetska/serbichany
https://i.imgur.com/Mzx7m.jpg

[Polak]

If you do not have recent Balkanic ancestry and score a bit of Greek and Balkan on 23andme that means he had Balkan admix

:( I only have Balkan on Myheritage and DNA.LAND.

[Abriekman]

:( I only have Balkan on Myheritage and DNA.LAND.

Do you have G25? I do not know if there are highlander samples, but if they are will be very good modelling you with some of them

[smd555]

My grandfather was a South-Western Ukrainian. How can I tell if he and I had/have Balkan (Celto-Illyrian) admix?

We can talk about some influence/admix only if we have pattern to compare with. South-western Ukrainians have some specificity compairing with average Ukrainian, but also some specificity have northern Ukrainians, central Ukrainians and others.

[Polak]

Do you have G25? I do not know if there are highlander samples, but if they are will be very good modelling you with some of them

That would be interesting. Where and how can I acquire my G25?

[Polak]

We can talk about some influence/admix only if we have pattern to compare with. South-western Ukrainians have some specificity compairing with average Ukrainian, but also some specificity have northern Ukrainians, central Ukrainians and others.

I understand :)

[Abriekman]

That would be interesting. Where and how can I acquire my G25?

Contact Davidski https://bga101.blogspot.com/2017/10/genetic-ancestry-online-store-to-be.html

There is nothing more accurate than this at the moment, more accurate than 23andme or AncestryDNA

It works like Gedmatch Vahaduo calculator

BUT you should choose populations realistic for your ancestors, it can also give realistic ancestry proportions with all samples, but if you are mixed choose populations ( I recommend Genoplot )

[Ion Basescul]

Slavic influence on Gagauz is from Bojka/Lemko people.

Dumbest shit I've read this week probably. Gagauz people are recent Bulgarian migrants from the 18th+ century. Ukrainian/Polish Carpathians are farther to them than the Balkan mountains. Whatever Slavic source exists in Bulgarians also manifests in them. Did you confuse them for another ethnic group?

[Varda]

Dumbest shit I've read this week probably. Gagauz people are recent Bulgarian migrants from the 18th+ century. Ukrainian/Polish Carpathians are farther to them than the Balkan mountains. Whatever Slavic source exists in Bulgarians also manifests in them. Did you confuse them for another ethnic group?

Gagauz are Turkic speakers. Bulgarians lost Turkic language in 9th or 10th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar_language
You want to say in Bulgaria until 18th century lived Orthodox Turkic speakers?

[Ion Basescul]

Gagauz are Turkic speakers. Bulgarians lost Turkic language in 9th or 10th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar_language
You want to say in Bulgaria until 18th century lived Orthodox Turkic speakers?

I don't need to argue with someone who has no relation to my country. Them being Bulgarian makes the most sense, as they literally live together, came together from Bulgaria, have the same faith, and are genetically very similar.

[Aspirin]

How they plot in Eurogenes K15.

https://sun9-39.userapi.com/JR2ZwpkWiZxmEI4SutPoP2J9rgXPJxrn-eqtvQ/aItaN-_NN8Y.jpg

For comparison Carpathian Ukrainians (Boyko/Hutsul) from Western Ukraine. The red dot is an academic sample from Chernivtsi Oblast.

https://pp.userapi.com/P2hkanWZYuCBqXBq7lHAfN5pW2y33tEbP7EQug/MwCUQAVi0Vg.jpg

[Aspirin]

Slavic influence on Gagauz is from Bojka/Lemko people.

Gagauz are super Balkan people genetically, they barely reach the Bulgarian average in Eurogenes K15.

https://sun9-35.userapi.com/_7C2Q0mIxg636PKwVKImm7lyvo1q5ZttgGLofA/8xSEanlZFKQ.jpg

[rothaer]

I don't need to argue with someone who has no relation to my country. Them being Bulgarian makes the most sense, as they literally live together, came together from Bulgaria, have the same faith, and are genetically very similar.

Gagauz were a lot in Southern Besarabia (now Ukraine south of Moldovia). They will have been just another advance of Turkic-speakers from the east, *way* after Bolgars.

[rothaer]

Consider suicide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos#:~:text=%D0%9Be%D0%BC%D0%BAo%2C%20Lemko)%20 are%20an%20ethnic,of%20Rusyns%20and%2For%20Ukraini ans.

What do you consider from what langauge family the Croat name hails?

[Daco Celtic]

This is a little further southwest

Traces of Vlach Migrations in the Toponymy of the Polish Podtatrze Region
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332516287_Traces_of_Vlach_Migrations_in_the_Topony my_of_the_Polish_Podtatrze_Region

[Aspirin]

Gagauz were a lot in Southern Besarabia (now Ukraine south of Moldovia). They will have been just another advance of Turkic-speakers from the east, *way* after Bolgars.

Most of Gagauz live in the borders of today Moldova, not Ukraine, they migrated here from the south 200 years ago, genetically they are Balkanites with bassically 0% Turkic admixture, only in their features sometimes can be seen individuals with mongoloid features, and their language is Oghuz Turkic connected with Turks from Turkey and Balkans. Till late 19th century they were considered just Bulgarians.

[Ion Basescul]

Gagauz are super Balkan people genetically, they barely reach the Bulgarian average in Eurogenes K15.

https://sun9-35.userapi.com/_7C2Q0mIxg636PKwVKImm7lyvo1q5ZttgGLofA/8xSEanlZFKQ.jpg

Because it's not the best average, just like the Moldovan and probably others too, which I didn't get the chance to check. On K13 they plot like Central to Southern Bulgarians.

[Polak]

Contact Davidski https://bga101.blogspot.com/2017/10/genetic-ancestry-online-store-to-be.html

There is nothing more accurate than this at the moment, more accurate than 23andme or AncestryDNA

It works like Gedmatch Vahaduo calculator

BUT you should choose populations realistic for your ancestors, it can also give realistic ancestry proportions with all samples, but if you are mixed choose populations ( I recommend Genoplot )

Thanks alot :) I ordered my G25 coordinates off Davidski. Can't wait to dig in.

[Ion Basescul]

Thanks alot :) I ordered my G25 coordinates off Davidski. Can't wait to dig in.

K13 updated and Dodecad K12b updated are better, as they have way more samples. Davidski is discontinuing the moderns spreadsheet for Global 25.
On K13 for example, I've contributed with highlander samples from Ivano-Frankivsk in Ukraine.

[rothaer]

Most of Gagauz live in the borders of today Moldova, not Ukraine, they migrated here from the south 200 years ago, genetically they are Balkanites with bassically 0% Turkic admixture, only in their features sometimes can be seen individuals with mongoloid features, and their language is Oghuz Turkic connected with Turks from Turkey and Balkans. Till late 19th century they were considered just Bulgarians.

Ok, then they have another and much later source than proto Bolgars. Oghuz tribes began with their migration at abt. 1050 AD.

[Abriekman]

K13 updated and Dodecad K12b updated are better, as they have way more samples. Davidski is discontinuing the moderns spreadsheet for Global 25.
On K13 for example, I've contributed with highlander samples from Ivano-Frankivsk in Ukraine.

For a lot of people G25 is much better, than Gedmatch Vahaduo calculators, because G25 uses DNA coordinates, while Gedmatch uses admixtures

[Polak]

For a lot of people G25 is much better, than Gedmatch Vahaduo calculators, because G25 uses DNA coordinates, while Gedmatch uses admixtures

I have my G25, which calculators do you recommend for Balkan admix?

[Abriekman]

I have my G25, which calculators do you recommend for Balkan admix?

Register on Genoplot, upload your G25 coordinates to them, try to use different calculators there with different settings ( default penalty or penalty off for example ) then try it with source populations ( and there choose Balkan populations, but it can also eats all Ashkenazi, you should experiment with source populations more )

I can help you with modelling, if you want you can send your coords to me in private message

[Rethel]

Lemkos (Ukrainian-speaking highlanders in South-East Poland):

And what these results changed, what was not known before?

[Aspirin]

Because it's not the best average, just like the Moldovan and probably others too, which I didn't get the chance to check. On K13 they plot like Central to Southern Bulgarians.

Don't think so, this is a good average for them, since they live very compactly in the South of the country and their population is very tiny.

[Ion Basescul]

Don't think so, this is a good average for them, since they live very compactly in the South of the country and their population is very tiny.

There isn't a Gagauz average on the K15 PCA. I was talking about the Bulgarian one, since I've created solid regional averages on K13 for them and kind of expect them to plot further down and/or to the right, closer the Gagauz.

[Black Wolf]

Lemkos (Ukrainian-speaking highlanders in South-East Poland):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos

Lemko1 (this one is fully from Jasło county)

GEDmatch A409XXX

According to GEDCOM ancestors are from Pielgrzymka, Kłopotnica and Wola Cieklińska (all Lemko villages):

https://i.imgur.com/MWZsvnO.png

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 30.39 Pct
Baltic 35.46 Pct
West_Med 13.40 Pct
West_Asian 9.55 Pct
East_Med 9.49 Pct
Red_Sea 0.97 Pct
South_Asian 0.45 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.21 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.08 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 18.26 Pct
Atlantic 20.57 Pct
Baltic 25.73 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.82 Pct
West_Med 8.16 Pct
West_Asian 8.42 Pct
East_Med 5.19 Pct
Red_Sea 0.85 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 1.83 Pct
Basque 1.95 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.73 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.22 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 23.23 Pct
East_Med 0.65 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.69 Pct
Fennoscandian 5.17 Pct
French 5.91 Pct
Iberian 9.07 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.45 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 7.61 Pct
North_Caucasian 7.90 Pct
North_Sea 6.07 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.52 Pct

=====

Lemko2 (this one is partly from Jasło county, partly from Gorlice county):

GEDmatch A039XXX

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 26.67 Pct
Baltic 38.22 Pct
West_Med 16.97 Pct
West_Asian 8.25 Pct
East_Med 7.49 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.95 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.45 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 17.61 Pct
Atlantic 17.62 Pct
Baltic 25.56 Pct
Eastern_Euro 15.50 Pct
West_Med 12.16 Pct
West_Asian 7.70 Pct
East_Med 2.93 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.74 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.17 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 3.01 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.06 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 11.07 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 18.57 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 12.38 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.81 Pct
French 2.38 Pct
Iberian 9.66 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.76 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 3.78 Pct
North_Caucasian 3.42 Pct
North_Sea 5.48 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.76 Pct
West_Med 2.86 Pct

=====

Lemko3 (this one is partly from Jasło county, partly from Gorlice county):

GEDmatch T515XXX

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 28.18 Pct
Baltic 37.37 Pct
West_Med 14.55 Pct
West_Asian 5.94 Pct
East_Med 10.63 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.70 Pct
East_Asian 1.00 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.03 Pct
Oceanian 0.58 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 17.59 Pct
Atlantic 19.52 Pct
Baltic 25.40 Pct
Eastern_Euro 14.25 Pct
West_Med 9.79 Pct
West_Asian 5.12 Pct
East_Med 6.64 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.30 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.37 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.63 Pct
Oceanian 0.39 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.76 Pct
Basque 0.72 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 10.30 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 10.00 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 21.46 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 7.45 Pct
Fennoscandian 6.64 Pct
French 5.09 Pct
Iberian 3.80 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 7.66 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8.94 Pct
North_Caucasian 3.06 Pct
North_Sea 7.28 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.57 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.27 Pct

=====

Lemko4 (this one is fully from Gorlice county):

GEDmatch T631XXX

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 25.72 Pct
Baltic 39.53 Pct
West_Med 14.62 Pct
West_Asian 5.61 Pct
East_Med 10.31 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.54 Pct
East_Asian 1.32 Pct
Siberian 0.06 Pct
Amerindian 1.35 Pct
Oceanian 0.95 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 13.63 Pct
Atlantic 19.27 Pct
Baltic 27.57 Pct
Eastern_Euro 16.01 Pct
West_Med 9.77 Pct
West_Asian 5.84 Pct
East_Med 5.54 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.66 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.94 Pct
Oceanian 0.75 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian 1.10 Pct
Basque 1.38 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.96 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.94 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 22.51 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 11.52 Pct
Fennoscandian 5.93 Pct
French 1.13 Pct
Iberian 7.44 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.25 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.92 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.73 Pct
North_Sea 7.56 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.19 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.12 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 3.17 Pct

I get this for both of these kits....''Kit number A039XXX not found in public DNA database.''

[Peterski]

Serbian name in Ukraine exist in toponyms and it was not fell from the sky http://www.maplandia.com/ukraine/chernivetska/serbichany
https://i.imgur.com/Mzx7m.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

[Varda]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Serbia_(historical_province)

Except New Serbia in central Ukraine existed also Slavo-Serbia in eastern Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavo-Serbia

303 Serbian families from northern Dalmatia in 1771. moved to present day Ukrainian part of Galicia. Average persons by family among northern Dalmatian Serbs in 1709. on Venetian census was 9.8 according to several Serbian village for which i found data. This means about 2970 Dalmatian Serbs settled in Galicia in 1771. They are recorded in sources as emigrants in Poland, because Galicia was part of Poland in that time. They actually arrived in the same year when Austria took Galicia from Poland, and migration was organized by Austrians.