Is Mtdna relatively constant/homogenous across Europe?

[Sikeliot]

Meaning, unlike y-dna frequencies, are the frequencies of mtdna haplogroups relatively the same from one part of Europe to another?

I mean if you look at how diverse the y-dna is if you compare Spain to Russia, it makes me wonder if the mtdna across Europe is relatively similar, and thus this is what makes Europeans all cluster tightly.

[Scrapple]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

H seems to dominate followed by U's.

This is shown in our very own mtdna thread.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5836

Now there is some anomalies with V being very high among the Saami but yes it does seem similar across Europe.

Sciency stuff:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288355/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11349229

[Sikeliot]

V being highest in both Saami and Iberian populations more than anywhere between them, always strikes me as odd.

[Pallantides]

V being highest in both Saami and Iberian populations more than anywhere between them, always strikes me as odd.

It's frequency is around 40% in the Sámi and 12% in the Basque.

[gold_fenix]

mmm curious that last date
basques and sami problably the oldest europeans and both have a extrange craneal feature (occipital bun) who is only often in finns, basqes and samis and almost inexistent in modern europeans

[Scrapple]

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mtdnahaplogroupv/default.aspx


The mtDNA haplogroup V is believed to have originated around the Western Mediterranean region, approximately 13,600 years before present- possibly on Iberia. It is found with particularly high concentrations in the Saami People of northern Scandinavia, as well as the Basque people (10.4%) and somewhat higher among the isolated Pasiegos in nearby Cantabria. It also is found in particularly high concentrations (16.3%) among the Berbers of Matmata, Tunisia. The highest levels are in Scandinavian and Western and North African populations. It is spread at varying low levels across Europe and smaller portions of West and Central Asia.

http://www.geni.com/projects/V-mtDNA


"The haplogroup began expanding after consistently warmer conditions arrived about 11,500 years ago. One migration carried it northward along the Atlantic to a low-lying coastal plain rich in game and marine food sources such as seals and sea birds. Known as Doggerland, that region lies under the North Sea today – because so much water was locked up in the polar ice sheets during and immediately after the Ice Age, sea level was lower in the past than it is today.

"Doggerland slipped beneath the waves about 9,000 years ago, but haplogroup V remains at levels of about 5% in countries that border the Atlantic and especially the North Sea. It is most abundant today in Scotland and northern Germany.

As you can probably guess my mtdna is V. My maternal line is from Ireland.

[Pallantides]

mmm curious that last date
basques and sami problably the oldest europeans and both have a extrange craneal feature (occipital bun) who is only often in finns, basqes and samis and almost inexistent in modern europeans

I believe the saami are mix of a few old populations, one that came through Norway and one that came from the east.
A small group of Uralic like people encounter the aboriginal Europeans in the North and after a while they blend togheter and became the Saami.:)
http://media1.origo.no/-/cache/image/1416836_hac1661d2f6304bb28dfc_v1276769671_1024x102 4_e.jpeg

[Frederick]

it makes me wonder if the mtdna across Europe is relatively similar, and thus this is what makes Europeans all cluster tightly.

Well, Y-DNA "R" is almost as far spread as mtDNA "H" ;)

The interesting thing with mtDNA is however:
It seems that Europeans from 5000 years ago had absolutely different mtDNA frequencies (for example: Zero H in Germany. But 80% U5 (today most concentrated in Finns/Saami etc)

[Albion]

That's why Mtdna is boring.

[Treffie]

That's why Mtdna is boring.

Discovering that your female ancestors were used as sex toys isn't boring :p

[Albion]

Discovering that your female ancestors were used as sex toys isn't boring :p

They were?? :rolleyes:

I thought the spread of Mtdna haplogroups was so unremarkable because women moved between tribes more readily than men who basically considered themselves to be the tribes.

[Osweo]

ssssssstrange craneal feature (occipital bun) who is only often in finns, basqes and samis and almost inexistent in modern europeans

Got any pics?

[Albion]

mmm curious that last date
basques and sami problably the oldest europeans and both have a extrange craneal feature (occipital bun) who is only often in finns, basqes and samis and almost inexistent in modern europeans

I've got like a weird flat area at the back of my head just down from the peak of it. It's like someone's hit it with a spade or something. What would that be? :D

[gold_fenix]

common occiput in dolicocephalic, this is normal
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe234.jpg

occipital bun, rounded bundle between neck and head
http://209.85.62.24/67/29/0/p318982/me2m.jpg
http://209.85.62.24/67/29/0/p319098/me2_895m.jpg

[Raskolnikov]

http://209.85.62.24/67/29/0/p318982/me2m.jpg

I have that. I'm probably mesocephalic. I've never shaved my head so I don't know if it would show up like that - I can just feel it on the back of my head.

[leisitox]

I have that to, but little not so prominent.

[gandalf]

Same for me , i've got this pointed bump in the back of the skull .

[zack]

Same for me , i've got this pointed bump in the back of the skull .

Me as well.

[Agrippa]

Me as well.

Most Europid males seem to have it, the degree is more important.

Anyway, mtDNA seems to vary too, with the most important aspect being the rate of non-Europid, non-European and old-European (pre-Neolithic) variants, especially old-European/Mesolithic in Northern and North Eastern Europe.

The latter being most common in very specific populations it seems, especially if talking about U4 and even more U5.

Both seem to be most common among Finno-Ugrian and respectively influenced populations.

U4 is most common in Bashkirs and Volga-Finns, U5 in Finns. I think that speaks for itself. That doesn't have to mean a specific haplogroup like U5 was only present in a certain region and time (Mesolithic Northern Europe), but at least the frequencies changed in regions, populations and over time. So U5 might have been present elsewhere too, but it was just so absolutely dominant in Northern Mesolithics.

Recently a author called lineages pre-Neolithic AND local for Western Europe, for which I doubt it, like explained here:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35827

In any case, there seems to have been a predominance of related male groups (patrilinear, patrilocal, patriarchal), so many changes seem to have been at least MORE male transmitted and the winner just took most local females, but eliminated or at least put down the local males or took local females even from peaceful neighbours or allies, but kept the male kin together...

[Scrapple]

That's why Mtdna is boring.

My mom is not boring :cry



Discovering that your female ancestors were used as sex toys isn't boring :p

Nor is she a sex toy :cry :cry

:D

[safinator]

Me as well.
Me as well.