Safavids: The end of the debate on their ethnicity

[Kyp]

I'm going to put an end to this debate since there is the long heated debate wether they were Iranians or Turks:

Shaykh Junayd (Azari/Kurdish??) – (w) Khadija Begum (Bayindir Turkoman/Pontic Greek/Georgian)

--> Shaykh Haydar (Iranian/Bayindir-Turkoman/Pontic Greek) – (w) Halima Begum (Turkoman/Pontic Greek/Georgian)


--begin of Safavid Dynasty--

--> Shah Ismail (Iranian/Turkoman/Pontic Greek/Georgian) – (w) Tajlu Begum (Mawsillu Turkoman)

--> Shah Tahmasp (mostly Turkoman/Iranian/Pontic Greek/Georgian) – (w) Sultanum Begum (Mawsillu Turkoman)

--> Ismail II (pred. Turkoman/minor Iranian and Pontic Greek/Georgian)

--> Mohammad Khodabanda (pred. Turkoman/minor Iranian and Pontic Greek/Georgian) – (w) Khayr-al Nisra Begum (Mazandarani/Seyyedd)

--> Shah Abbas (Turkoman/Mazandarani/Seyyedd) - (w) (Circassian)

--> Safi Mirza (Turkoman/Mazandarani/Seyyed/Circassian) – (w) Anna Khanum (Circassian)

--> Abbas II (Circassian/Turkoman/Iranian) – (w) Nakihat Khanum (Circassian)

--> Suleyman (pred. Circassian minor Iranian & Turkoman) – (w) Elena Khanum (Circassian?)

--> Tahmasp II (pred. Circassian) – (w) Shahpari Begum (Safavid)


Conclusion: Their paternal origin might be Iranian (either Azari or Kurdish) however at the beginning of their dynasty they were mostly of Turkoman stock mixed with Iranian and Pontic Greek elements. Later they became mostly Circassian by ethnicity due to taking Circassian wifes. And the Iranian and Turkoman input became minor.

[Dr_Maul]

Median (just gonna use this as a broad term for all NW Iranic ppl) -> Oghuz Turk -> Circassian
Also, I thought there was some Georgian involvement?

[Kyp]

Median (just gonna use this as a broad term for all NW Iranic ppl) -> Oghuz Turk -> Circassian
Also, I thought there was some Georgian involvement?

Some people say Shah Ismail's mother was Georgian but she was the daughter of Uzun Hassan and his Pontic Greek wife from Trebizund.

Maybe some Georgian prior to it? I don't know.

[Dr_Maul]

Some people say Shah Ismail's mother was Georgian but she was the daughter of Uzun Hassan and his Pontic Greek wife from Trebizund.

Maybe some Georgian prior to it? I don't know.

I found it, Uzun Hassan's wife Theodora was Georgian from the maternal side via Princess Bagrationi

[Kyp]

I found it, Uzun Hassan's wife Theodora was Georgian from the maternal side via Princess Bagrationi

Okay I didn't check her maternal lineage

[Dr_Maul]

Okay I didn't check her maternal lineage

By the way, do you have anything on the origin of the Mawsillu before its founding?

[Kyp]

By the way, do you have anything on the origin of the Mawsillu before its founding?

nope, only that they were active in East Anatolia and went into Iran with the Aq Qoyunlu (which you probably already know^^)

[Dr_Maul]

nope, only that they were active in East Anatolia and went into Iran with the Aq Qoyunlu (which you probably already know^^)

So Mawsillu is probably referring to Mosul, right?

[Kyp]

So Mawsillu is probably referring to Mosul, right?

Yes can be. We know the city was conquered by Timur and later ruled by the Aq Qoyunlu. Probably can be linked to it.

[Dr_Maul]

Yes can be. We know the city was conquered by Timur and later ruled by the Aq Qoyunlu. Probably can be linked to it.

Do we know of big settlement there? from Turks?

[Kyp]

Do we know of big settlement there? from Turks?

I don't know, but to be honest I don't think it matters as by that point most of the Turkoman population lived nomadically.
I don't know about the size of this tribe either.. They could possibly be of Kurdish origin aswell or a mix of different people like the Shamlu for example. One would have to look deep into the history of Iraq to find out more probably without success still.