Are Ashkenazi Turkic?

[Daniel21]

closest population to us turks are the ashkenazi jews . maybe khazar = ashkenzi??? khazar are turkic tribe related to us turks .


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

Kit DA2718541

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.83
2 Atlantic_Med 14.64
3 North_European 13.72
4 Gedrosia 10.44
5 Southwest_Asian 10.33
6 East_Asian 4.63
7 Siberian 3.39
8 Southeast_Asian 3.13
9 Northwest_African 1.37
10 South_Asian 1.32
11 East_African 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Turkish (Dodecad) 10.53
2 Turks (Behar) 11.81
3 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 14.11
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 15.18
5 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 16.7
6 Greek (Dodecad) 16.75
7 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 16.97
8 Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.2
9 Lebanese (Behar) 17.95
10 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 18.44
11 Cypriots (Behar) 18.45
12 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 18.78
13 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 19.21
14 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 19.7
15 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 21.01
16 Kurd (Dodecad) 21.17
17 Syrians (Behar) 21.19
18 Iranian (Dodecad) 21.22
19 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 21.41
20 C_Italian (Dodecad) 21.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 46.6% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 5.05
2 61.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.7% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 5.18
3 59.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 40.6% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 5.47
4 50.7% Nogais (Yunusbayev) + 49.3% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 5.89
5 86.5% Turkish (Dodecad) + 13.5% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 6.16
6 81.3% Turks (Behar) + 18.7% French (HGDP) @ 6.16
7 86.4% Turkish (Dodecad) + 13.6% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 6.18
8 83.5% Turks (Behar) + 16.5% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 6.2
9 82.7% Turks (Behar) + 17.3% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 6.26
10 83% Turks (Behar) + 17% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 6.28
11 84.5% Turks (Behar) + 15.5% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 6.28
12 83.1% Turks (Behar) + 16.9% English (Dodecad) @ 6.28
13 83.5% Turks (Behar) + 16.5% British (Dodecad) @ 6.29
14 83.1% Turks (Behar) + 16.9% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 6.29
15 81.6% Turks (Behar) + 18.4% German (Dodecad) @ 6.32
16 83.9% Turks (Behar) + 16.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 6.32
17 83.9% Turks (Behar) + 16.1% Irish (Dodecad) @ 6.33
18 83.4% Turks (Behar) + 16.6% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 6.33
19 86.1% Turkish (Dodecad) + 13.9% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 6.33
20 83.9% Turks (Behar) + 16.1% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 6.33

[Hektor12]

Perhaps, Turks are Ashkenazi ?

[Abriekman]

closest population to us turks are the ashkenazi jews . maybe khazar = ashkenzi??? khazar are turkic tribe related to us turks .

Ancient Israelites mixed with Anatolians ( Hittites ), Ashkenazi Jews are close to Turks genetically because of common Anatolian admixture, Turkish people are more Anatolian, than Turkic

[princeton90]

This person is part Sephardim Jewish. There are Turkish citizens of Sephardim Jewish origin.

[Dr_Maul]

Ashkenazi are European + EEF/South European + Levantine, which puts them close to Greeks and South Italians which are in turn kind of close to Turks (notice the distance is still high anyway)

[RatCat]

Bro what is this :rotfl:

[RyoHazuki]

Khazar converts from modern China had nothing to do with Anatolian Turks or Ashkenazi Jews. This isn't even up for debate amongst modern geneticists, it's a silly antiquated hypothesis. Ashkenazis don't have a single east Asian/central Asian tinge in their genome that being Khazar Turkic converts would imply.

[Annihilus]

Report finds Ashkinazi Jews descended from Turks

Persian Jews converted Turks to Judaism to create the rump of what would become today’s Jewish population, DNA research has revealed.

Persian Jews converted Turks to Judaism to create the rump of what would become today’s Jewish population, DNA research has revealed.

The fascinating insight, which shows that most Ashkenazi Jews descend from Turkey, was made possible by state-of-the-art computer modelling and genetic techniques.

The project, led by Israeli-born Dr Eran Elhaik, even pinpointed Iskenaz, Eskenaz and Ashanaz – three Turkish villages an ancient Silk Road route which still exist today – as part of the original Ashkenazi homeland.

It is the largest genomic study ever carried out on Ashkenazi Jews, and shows that most of today’s population are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonised what is now northern Turkey more than 2,000 years ago.

Elhaik shows that locals were converted to Judaism by Jews from Persia, whose empire then home to the world’s largest Jewish communities.

He said the word ‘Ashkenaz’ likely derives from Ashguza, the ancient Assyrian and Babylonian term for Iron Age Eurasian steppeland people known as Scythians.

Concurrent analysis of Yiddish suggests that it was originally a Slavic language which the researchers think was developed by Jewish tradesmen travelling along the Silk Roads linking China and Europe 1,200 years ago.

It was only when the Khazar Empire began to decline around 1,000 years ago that the Jewish converts headed west, into central Europe, coming into contact with German-speaking peoples.

Elhaik and his team from the University of Sheffield publish their findings in scientific journal Genome Biology and Evolution and say their work helps settle an age-old debate about the origins of the 1,000-year old Yiddish language.

“The prevalent view claims Yiddish has a German origin, whereas the opposing view suggests a Slavic origin with strong Iranian and weak Turkic substrata,” they say.

“One of the major difficulties in deciding was the unknown geographical origin of Yiddish speaking Ashkenazic Jews,” they say, but their analysis “demonstrates that Greeks, Romans, Iranians, and Turks exhibit the highest genetic similarity with Ashkenazic Jews”.

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/report-finds-ashkinazi-jews-descended-from-turks/

[RyoHazuki]

Report finds Ashkinazi Jews descended from Turks

Persian Jews converted Turks to Judaism to create the rump of what would become today’s Jewish population, DNA research has revealed.

Persian Jews converted Turks to Judaism to create the rump of what would become today’s Jewish population, DNA research has revealed.

The fascinating insight, which shows that most Ashkenazi Jews descend from Turkey, was made possible by state-of-the-art computer modelling and genetic techniques.

The project, led by Israeli-born Dr Eran Elhaik, even pinpointed Iskenaz, Eskenaz and Ashanaz – three Turkish villages an ancient Silk Road route which still exist today – as part of the original Ashkenazi homeland.

It is the largest genomic study ever carried out on Ashkenazi Jews, and shows that most of today’s population are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonised what is now northern Turkey more than 2,000 years ago.

Elhaik shows that locals were converted to Judaism by Jews from Persia, whose empire then home to the world’s largest Jewish communities.

He said the word ‘Ashkenaz’ likely derives from Ashguza, the ancient Assyrian and Babylonian term for Iron Age Eurasian steppeland people known as Scythians.

Concurrent analysis of Yiddish suggests that it was originally a Slavic language which the researchers think was developed by Jewish tradesmen travelling along the Silk Roads linking China and Europe 1,200 years ago.

It was only when the Khazar Empire began to decline around 1,000 years ago that the Jewish converts headed west, into central Europe, coming into contact with German-speaking peoples.

Elhaik and his team from the University of Sheffield publish their findings in scientific journal Genome Biology and Evolution and say their work helps settle an age-old debate about the origins of the 1,000-year old Yiddish language.

“The prevalent view claims Yiddish has a German origin, whereas the opposing view suggests a Slavic origin with strong Iranian and weak Turkic substrata,” they say.

“One of the major difficulties in deciding was the unknown geographical origin of Yiddish speaking Ashkenazic Jews,” they say, but their analysis “demonstrates that Greeks, Romans, Iranians, and Turks exhibit the highest genetic similarity with Ashkenazic Jews”.

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/report-finds-ashkinazi-jews-descended-from-turks/

Why does this assume Khazars were the same as Turkish Turks? They weren't even genetically or geographically overlapping. The former were first noted by Chinese historians pre-conversion and moved to the Pontic steppe/North Caucasus. Turkish people came from genetically Anatolian people assimilated into Oghuz Turkic ruling class.

[Hektor12]

Why does this assume Khazars were the same as Turkish Turks? They weren't even genetically or geographically overlapping. The former were first noted by Chinese historians pre-conversion and moved to the Pontic steppe/North Caucasus. Turkish people came from genetically Anatolian people assimilated into Oghuz Turkic ruling class.

When you decide to fix the history to fit in your political agenda, you have a different world.

[Edgü]

Why does this assume Khazars were the same as Turkish Turks? They weren't even genetically or geographically overlapping. The former were first noted by Chinese historians pre-conversion and moved to the Pontic steppe/North Caucasus. Turkish people came from genetically Anatolian people assimilated into Oghuz Turkic ruling class.

I had a stroke reading this

[Foster]

Ashkenazi Jews look much lighter than Turks for me to believe this theory.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD9wRP7C0CU

VS


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNYjFmP-NaQ

[Edgü]

:1127:

[Kivan]

This person is part Sephardim Jewish. There are Turkish citizens of Sephardim Jewish origin.

No, it's not. This sample is from an user here of this forum (Hapanuwa, who is Aegean Turk).

And OP is clearly another fake account of Foster/VigVagKesault/MaldenK, etc.

[SkyBurn]

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/report-finds-ashkinazi-jews-descended-from-turks/

I hate to use wikipedia as a source, but they summarise things elegantly. The Khazar hypothesis is a myth.


Elhaik's 2012 study proved highly controversial. Several noted geneticists, among them Marcus Feldman, Harry Ostrer, and Michael Hammer have maintained — and the view has gained widespread support among scientists — that the worldwide Jewish population is related and shares common roots in the Middle East, Feldman stated Elhaik's statistical analysis would not pass muster with most scientists; Hammer affirmed it was an outlier minority view without scientific support. Elhaik in reply described the group as ‘liars’ and ‘frauds’, noting Ostrer would not share genetic data that might be used ‘to defame the Jewish people’. Elhaik's PhD supervisor Dan Graur, likewise dismissed them as a ‘clique’, and said Elhaik is ‘combative’ which is what science itself is.[108]

Elhaik's 2012 study was specifically criticized for its use of Armenians and Azerbaijani Jews as proxies for Khazars and for using Bedouin and Jordanian Hashemites as a proxy for the Ancient Israelites. The former decision was criticized because Armenians were assumed to have a monolithic Caucasian ancestry, when as an Anatolian people (rather than Turkic) they contain many genetically Middle Eastern elements. Azerbaijani Jews are also assumed for the purposes of the study to have Khazarian ancestry, when Mountain Jews are actually descended from Persian Jews. The decision to cast Bedouin/Hashemites as "proto-Jews" was especially seen as political in nature, considering that both have origins in Arab tribes from the Arabian Peninsula rather than from the Ancient Israelites, while the descent of the Jews from the Israelites is largely accepted.[109][110] The study was also criticized as interpreting information selectively—The study found far more genetic similarity between the Druze and Ashkenazim than the Ashkenazim and Armenians, but Elhaik rejected this as indicating a common Semitic origin, instead interpreting it as evidence of Druze having Turkic origins when they are known to come from Syria.

Geneticists conducting studies in Jewish genetics have challenged Elhaik's methods in his first paper. Michael Hammer called Elhaik's premise "unrealistic," calling Elhaik and other Khazarian hypothesis proponents "outlier folks… who have a minority view that’s not supported scientifically. I think the arguments they make are pretty weak and stretching what we know." Marcus Feldman, director of Stanford University's Morrison Institute for Population and Resource Studies, echoes Hammer. "If you take all of the careful genetic population analysis that has been done over the last 15 years… there’s no doubt about the common Middle Eastern origin," he said. He added that Elhaik's first paper "is sort of a one-off." Elhaik's statistical analysis would not pass muster with most contemporary scholars, Feldman said: "He appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data." [111]

Das, Elhaik and Wexler's 2016 study was challenged by two prominent scholars of Jewish demography from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Shaul Stampfer, a professor of Soviet and East European Jewry, deemed it “basically nonsense.” Sergio DellaPergola, the primary demographer of the Jewish people at the university, called it a "falsification", criticizing its methodology, using a small population size and selectively removing population groups that refuted the findings they wanted, namely other Jewish groups such as the Italkim and Sephardic Jews, to whom Ashkenazi Jews are closely related genetically. “Serious research would have factored in the glaring genetic similarity between Sephardim and Ashkenazim, which mean Polish Jews are more genetically similar to Iraqi Jews than to a non-Jewish Pole.”[112] The Yiddish scholar Marion Aptroot states "Seen from the standpoint of the humanities, certain aspects of the article by Das et al. fall short of established standards."[113] Elhaik replied that “studying the DNA of non-Ashkenazic Jews would not change the DNA of Ashkenazic Jews nor the predicted origin of their DNA.'.[112]

Recently, a study by a team of biologists and linguists, led by Pavel Flegontov, a specialist in genomics, published a response to Das, Elhaik and Wexler's 2016 study, criticizing their methodology and conclusions. They argue that GPS works to allow inferences for the origins of modern populations with an unadmixed genome, but not for tracing ancestries back 1,000 years ago. In their view, the paper tried to fit Wexler's 'marginal and unsupported interpretation' of Yiddish into a model that only permits valid deductions for recent unadmixed populations.[114] They also criticized the linguistic aspect of the study on the grounds that "all methods of historical linguistics concur that Yiddish is a Germanic language, with no reliable evidence for Slavic, Iranian, or Turkic substrata."[114] They further describe the purported "Slavo-Iranian confederation" as "a historically meaningless term invented by the authors under review."[114]

Alexander Beider also takes issue with Elhaik's findings on linguistic grounds, similarly arguing that Yiddish onomastics lacks traces of a Turkic component. He concludes that theories of a Khazar connection are either speculative or simply wrong and "cannot be taken seriously."[115]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_hypothesis_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry

[RyoHazuki]

I had a stroke reading this

Check your reading comprehension.

[RyoHazuki]

When you decide to fix the history to fit in your political agenda, you have a different world.

This is what delusional Turanists unironically believe.

[RyoHazuki]

The closest linguistic relative to the Khazars are Chuvash, who live exactly in proximity to where the Khazar Khaganate was.
https://external-preview.redd.it/HMYWRmmeaDH090Zl_r_JQf2Z68mbPMorT-tzm4IYemw.jpg?auto=webp&a5d9ce88
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/TSqM1BQl861tRz9_Otz1GmMtM1MfHYPLk9IvW9JONz5X92qkSH LoPM1A7ZWKXiTnTIvRV-NTlq5rhNYJuSj7YwfKiwauvil7LGTQF46-8CSG5pUwdhl6
Turkic speaking Anatolians are not directly descended from them whatsoever, the Seljuqs they come from didn't even arrive in Anatolia till centuries after conquering/mixing with Persians. Ashkenazi Khazars makes even less sense, since to even make the hypothesis seem sound anthropologically you have to mince terminology, conflate groups/terms, and gerrymander groupings into historical revisionism levels of nonsense.

[PosterMentality22]

Ashkenazis don't have a single east Asian/central Asian tinge in their genome that being Khazar Turkic converts would imply.

Ashkenazi Jews actually do have relatively significant East Eurasian admixture compared to most Europeans. On Eurogenes k13 they average about 2% East_Asian+Siberian+Amerindian, similar to Hungarians. There are also some extremely rare MtDNA subclades that are shared between East Asians (Chinese) and Ashkenazi Jews.
The East Asian component in Ashkenazim appears to be related to the Radhanites and the Silk Road rather than the Khazars.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep08377

[RyoHazuki]

The genetically closest living people to the Gökturks are Tofalars. They look like this.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/%D0%93%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5% D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B2_%D0%A2%D0%BE%D1%84%D 0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8_%D0%86%D1%80%D0%BA%D1 %83%D1%82%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B3%D1%83%D0% B1._%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%BD%D1%8C%D0%BE%D1%83%D0% B4%D1%96%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B F%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%96%D1%82_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%87_XX_%D 1%81%D1%82_%D0%A0%D0%95%D0%9C.jpg
Modern day western Turks in Turkey who conflate themselves with the former group generally look like this.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/HY1799/turkish-fans-before-game-switzerland-v-turkey-st-jakob-park-basel-HY1799.jpg

I have no ill will to Turks and believe their heritage is a valid and important one that transcends genetic/geographic differences, but I dislike superstitious nonsense in the discourse of anthropology.

[Parça do Neymar]

https://i.ibb.co/ZdL4Cvj/Der-T-rke.jpg

[RyoHazuki]

Ashkenazi Jews actually do have relatively significant East Eurasian admixture compared to most Europeans. On Eurogenes k13 they average about 2% East_Asian+Siberian+Amerindian, similar to Hungarians. There are also some extremely rare MtDNA subclades that are shared between East Asians (Chinese) and Ashkenazi Jews.
The East Asian component in Ashkenazim appears to be related to the Radhanites and the Silk Road rather than the Khazars.
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep08377

Ashkenazis are mixed with Europeans. What trace percentage of North/East Asian DNA that shows up in them is likely ANE, as it's generally what shows up in Europeans (and in similar percentages)

[PosterMentality22]

Ashkenazis are mixed with Europeans. What trace percentage of North/East Asian DNA that shows up in them is likely ANE, as it's generally what it shows up in Europeans (and in similar percentages)

~2% East Eurasian admixture is definintely higher than expected given their known admixture in Europe. That is even higher than many Eastern Europeans on Eurogenes k13.

For example Russia_Smolensk:
East_Asian+Siberian+Amerinidan = 1.45666667

Why is distant Chinese ancestry out of the question?

[Hapanuwa]

This person is part Sephardim Jewish. There are Turkish citizens of Sephardim Jewish origin.

The results posted by OP are mine and I have no ancestry other than Western Turkey

[RyoHazuki]

~2% East Eurasian admixture is definintely higher than expected given their known admixture in Europe. That is even higher than many Eastern Europeans on Eurogenes k13.

For example Russia_Smolensk:
East_Asian+Siberian+Amerinidan = 1.45666667

Why is distant Chinese ancestry out of the question?

Didn't realize it was up to that much more than other Europeans. How much of the Ashkenazi Asian percentage is there as it is in other Europeans, and how much of it was directly the result of Central/East Asian populations?

[PosterMentality22]

Didn't realize it was up to that much more than other Europeans. How much of the Ashkenazi Asian percentage is there as it is in other Europeans, and how much of it was directly the result of Central/East Asian populations?

I don't know. I have read that there is evidence of some Chinese admixture in Ashkenazi from MtDNA haplogroup M33c which orginates from China. This is probably due to isolated cases of Radhanites returning from the silk road with odd Chinese who was latter absorbed into the Jewish population.

The level in East Eurasian admixture in Ashkenazi Jews is slightly higher than expected. Not as high as Ukraine, the North Caucasus, Finns ect. But somewhat higher than most of their host populations in Central/Eastern Europe (except Hungary and Ukraine) this suggests that the East Eurasian admixture is due to more than just admixture with Europeans.

[Kamal900]

Fuck no. They're genetically in between Europe and the Levant, and they cluster the closest to people who share similar admixtures as them like Southern Italians and Aegean Greek Islanders. It's already a well established fact that western Jewish people owe more than half of their ancestry from the Canaanites/Levantines similar to Levantine Muslims. The only difference is the foreign admixtures in them which is Southern European in the former while the latter are mixed with non-Levantine middle easterners, namely Egyptians, Arabians and West Asiatics like say Turks or Iranians.

[Hektor12]

This is what delusional Turanists unironically believe.

What you believe is something, i don't care about it. But what you're trying to do is "confronting turks" and showing that how unrelated two Turkic groups, to make it acceptable for your history opinions. This is actual bad thing.

[SUPREEEEEME]

Why does this assume Khazars were the same as Turkish Turks? They weren't even genetically or geographically overlapping. The former were first noted by Chinese historians pre-conversion and moved to the Pontic steppe/North Caucasus. Turkish people came from genetically Anatolian people assimilated into Oghuz Turkic ruling class.

Pay no heed to the study. It's fraudulent.

Read the discussion from post 10 357:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14484-Could-Western-Jews-(Ash-and-Seph-)-descend-from-Aegeans-and-Levantine-admixture/page1036&p=716852#post716852

[Longbowman]

The closest relatives of Ashkenazi Jews are... Sephardic Jews, who have no history in eastern Europe. It's very obvious that Ashkenazim are not majorly Khazar or Turkic.

[Chris596]

I am part Ashkenazi + Türkic at the same time = Perfection

Plus, if FTDNA is true about the Italian (I'm going to take a 23andme test soon), then it can't get better than this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8jZz_QawBg

[AncientGreek]

There is no great mystery to Ashkenazi.

https://imgur.com/8WEIymk.png

40-50% Judaean + 20-25% German + 15-25% Ancient Italian/Greek + 5-20% Slavic. The percentages vary from individual to individual, but all share the same base genetic components. There are additional minor components like North African and some individuals even have East Asian too, but it's best to look at the major components. The Khazar theory holds no water to genetic evidence.