Why Germans and Scandinavians dont have the same major Y haplogroup?

[Tenma de Pegasus]

In general people tend to think they are descendants of very similar barbarian tribes, I dont understand why they dont have the same male ancestry. Scandinavians(finns excluded) are mostly I1 when Germany is a confusion of R1b with R1a with I and others...

[Ülev]

I believe it's magic

[Figaro]

Different Germanic branches (Scandinavian, Ingvaeonic, Irmionic and Istvaeonic), I reckon absorbed different substrates.

[Dandelion]

Cuckery. In Rethel's Poland women of all ethnicities are welcome, but only R1-men.

[Ethel]

they're right in the middle of the european "peninsula" where R1a and R1b meet, and I1 was assimilated

[Lemminkäinen]

I believe it's magic

Not magic. South Swedes are mostly R1b and West Finns I1.

[Lemminkäinen]

they're right in the middle of the european "peninsula" where R1a and R1b meet, and I1 was assimilated

I1 men were lost German Tribes, like Diutisc, Jutes etc. Finns and Sveas survived.

[Rethel]

Scandinavians(finns excluded) are mostly I1

It is obviously a bullshit.
Scandinavians are in majority R1, picking in Norway to almost 60%.

[renaissance12]

When germanic tribes moved to Germany .. they mixed heavily with local CELTIC PEOPLE and in the alps germanic mixed heavily with non indoeuropean people like raethi in Switzerland Austria and Bavaria and Romans..

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Tyrsenian_languages.svg/1200px-Tyrsenian_languages.svg.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/c4/84/0bc484dadbb15008ac621c6106a91478.gif

[Blondie]

Because germans are celto-germanic, scandinavians are much closer to proto-germanic peoples.

[Jana]

It is obviously a bullshit.
Scandinavians are in majority R1, picking in Norway to almost 60%.

R1 is not a haplogroup. I1 is single biggest hg in Scandinavia. Why does it bothers you so much, because they are blond?

[Jana]

In general people tend to think they are descendants of very similar barbarian tribes, I dont understand why they dont have the same male ancestry. Scandinavians(finns excluded) are mostly I1 when Germany is a confusion of R1b with R1a with I and others...

Because no ethno-linguistic group belongs to one lineage only
. Obviously north Germanic tribes had founder effect or similar of I1 hg, while R1b dominated in west Germanics.

Both come from nordic bronze age, but obviously both don't descend from identical tribes.

[Komintasavalta]

It is obviously a bullshit.

This sounds like something that Borat would say.

[Rethel]

R1 is not a haplogroup.

R1 isn't a haplogroup? :picard2:


I1 is single biggest hg in Scandinavia.

Nope, is not. More than 50% in whole is R1.
In Danmark 50%, in Sweden a little less, in Norway almost 60%.


Why does it bothers you so much, because they are blond?

It bothers me, as it is over and over reapining nonsense. When I oppose to the idea,
that Abraham was E1, or insist on the fact, now even proven, that Magyars were N1
it means, that I have something common with J1 or N1 or against any other feature?
Just nonsense will remain a nonsese, no matter how many times will be repeated.



This sounds like something that Borat would say.

:laugh:

[Jana]

R1 isn't a haplogroup? :picard2:


Nope, is not. More than 50% in whole is R1.
In Danmark 50%, in Sweden a little less, in Norway almost 60%.



It bothers me, as it is over and over reapining nonsense. When I oppose to the idea,
that Abraham was E1, or insist on the fact, now even proven, that Magyars were N1
it means, that I have something common with J1 or N1 or against any other feature?
Just nonsense will remain a nonsese, no matter how many times will be repeated.




:laugh:

Nobody gives a damn about R1, not a haplogroup, R1a and R1b separated tens of thousands of years ago. Lmao.
You are artifically trying to show things that don't exist.

Because you are jealous how Scandinavians are white and Nordic looking and main hg among them is I1.

R1a is very minor in Scandinavia apart from Norway where it is result of founder effect.

Main haplogroup is I1 followed by R1b. Deal with it.

[Teutonski]

Only the greatest Germans are I1

[Rethel]

Nobody gives a damn about R1, not a haplogroup, R1a and R1b separated tens of thousands of years ago. Lmao.
You are artifically trying to show things that don't exist.

What doesn't exist? R1?
Ok, then R-M207. Happy?
No artificial separating, not so all.
Now compare to whole I-M170.
Still R is higher than I.


Because you are jealous how Sandinavians are white and Nordic looking

Other people arent? :picard1:
In reality, I1 peope have usually a big OWD issues... and most of internet nazis are I1 surrprisingly.



and main hg among them is I1.

:picard2:

30% = main? :picard2:


R1a is very minor in Scandinavia apart from Norway where it is result of founder effect.
Main haplogroup is I1 followed by R1b. Deal with it.

Division between R1a and R1b is artificial, because it comes from the idiotic assumption, that R1a was IE, and R1b was Vasconic.
Long time ago not actuall and disprooved totally. You can obviously divide it to even lesser clades, but it has no sense.
The talk about hgs has only any sense when is combind to any reality, otherwise, it is a waiste of time.

[ZzeroKrieg]

Only the greatest Germans are I1

Ja, Einstein, Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Röntgen, Schiller, Leibniz, Schubert, Zweig, Hundertwasser, Strauss, Bismarck, Marx, Hitler are I1 and pure natural Nordic blondes.

[Rethel]

Only the greatest Germans are I1

Name them.

[Teutonski]

Name them.

Me, Myself and I

[Leto]

From Eupedia

Sweden - 37% I1, 21.5% R1b, 16% R1a
Norway - 32% R1b, 31.5% I1, 25.5% R1a
Denmark - 34% I1, 33% R1b, 15% R1a

Germany - 44.5% R1b, 16% R1a, 16% I1
Netherlands - 49% R1b, 16.5% I1, 4% R1a

[PaleoEuropean]

Because Scandinavia has only had like 4 major migration events since the last ice age. 1. Neolithic people 2. Corded people and 3.Slavs/Celts/Germans during the Viking age 4. Modern Germans during the 1700's-present day. Germany is like a whirlpool of genetics.

[Rethel]

From Eupedia

Sweden - 37% I1, 21.5% R1b, 16% R1a
Norway - 32% R1b, 31.5% I1, 25.5% R1a
Denmark - 34% I1, 33% R1b, 15% R1a


On Leftpedia, I1 is a bit too higher, but even acording to this data is in huge minority only 37%
In all germanic countries it is +/- 16%, but over 60% for R1. Btw, ironically, germanic countries
are (after celtic) the ones, which have the highest R1 in Europe. If R1, is not characteristic for
germanic countries, then is not characteristic for any group of people in Europe (maybe except
Insular Celts). So a talk that I1 is germanic hg is total nonsense, not only historical but factual.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=104143&d=1606313932
104143

[renaissance12]

From Eupedia

Sweden - 37% I1, 21.5% R1b, 16% R1a
Norway - 32% R1b, 31.5% I1, 25.5% R1a
Denmark - 34% I1, 33% R1b, 15% R1a

Germany - 44.5% R1b, 16% R1a, 16% I1
Netherlands - 49% R1b, 16.5% I1, 4% R1a


Big difference between germans living in Germany and Sweden ( don't forget tha there is a big difference betwenn genetic of germans living in North and germans living in Bavaria and west...)

[Jana]

On Leftpedia, I1 is a bit too higher, but even acording to this data is in huge minority only 37%
In all germanic countries it is +/- 16%, but over 60% for R1. Btw, ironically, germanic countries
are (after celtic) the ones, which have the highest R1 in Europe. If R1, is not characteristic for
germanic countries, then is not characteristic for any group of people in Europe (maybe except
Insular Celts). So a talk that I1 is germanic hg is total nonsense, not only historical but factual.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=104143&d=1606313932
104143

What a miserable cope lmao.
If anything R1b figures look inflated in data from Eupedia, previous statistics had I1 higher.

Your R1a is Slavic in any case so I wonder why you are so obsessed.

[Rethel]

previous statistics had I1 higher.

Had lower.


why you are so obsessed.

You seems to be obssesed, as you are trying to convinst people with
zealousy, that missinterpretation and manipulation with data is true.

[Jana]

Had lower.



You seems to be obssesed, as you are trying to convinst people with
zealousy, that missinterpretation and manipulation with data is true.

I1 is more common than R1a and than R1a among north Germanics on average. As well as in Iceland. And no, I have data where I1 is main hg in Norway as well, not R1b.
I don't care about your R1 cope, R1a and R1b have nothing to do with each other since extremely long time ago. Not even individual R1a/R1b/I1 etc subclades have as everyone knows.

Your propaganda is embarassing.

[Proto-Shaman]

Cuckery. In Rethel's Poland women of all ethnicities are welcome, but only R1-men.
He doesn't know where to release his Turkic barbarism. That's normal.

[Scandal]

Had lower.



You seems to be obssesed, as you are trying to convinst people with
zealousy, that missinterpretation and manipulation with data is true.

Why are you obsessed with R1x haplogroup? You want to claim R1b western euro achievments?

[Rethel]

I1 is more common than R1a

Also than R1a1a1b1a1b1a1c1a1a1a2b1a1a1a1a2b1b1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1 a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1z, and what? :picard2:


and than R1a among north Germanics on average.

And what? What is so wanderfull about this particular clade, that you have to cut him out and comapre to I1 (but not to I1d...)


As well as in Iceland.

In Iceland R1 is 2/3 and I1 is 1/3.
Both clades of R1 are equal to I1 in participation.


And no, I have data where I1 is main hg in Norway as well, not R1b.

Some old one made on few people from one region?
Even if not, the most trusted data shows I1 similar to data on Leftpedia.


I don't care about your R1 cope,

But always buthurted... :laugh:


R1a and R1b have nothing to do with each other since

The same founding father.
The same family.
The same place.
The same language.
The same race.
The same basic culture.
The same fairy tails.
The same believs.
The same social order.
The same special genetic factors.
The same cross subgroups.

Nothing common at all?
Have you some special hard day, period or Stears? :confused:


extremely long time

Mainly fictional, but even if would be true, it doesn't matter.


ago.

The same as I1a1 and I1a3. Separate them!


Not even individual R1a/R1b/I1 etc subclades have as everyone knows.

What? :confused:


Your propaganda is embarassing.

Telling the truth is embarassing, but manipulation with data, not? :rolleyes:

[Rethel]

Why are you obsessed with R1x haplogroup? You want to claim R1b western euro achievments?

Am I going now to be obssesed according to you with everything what I am talking about?

[Varda]

Why are you obsessed with R1x haplogroup? You want to claim R1b western euro achievments?

Rethel is R1 supremacist known on various forums, and from some of them is banned due to promotion of R1 supremacy and spreading bullshits.

[rothaer]

Rethel is R1 supremacist known on various forums, and from some of them is banned due to promotion of R1 supremacy and spreading bullshits.

Important is what he writes here and I've not yet read bullshit from him here. I see no fault in talking about R1 or R. You can have a view on haplogroups at any level. But I´m surprised about the unfactual comments by other members.

[rothaer]

Rethel is R1 supremacist known on various forums, and from some of them is banned due to promotion of R1 supremacy and spreading bullshits.

However, a supremacy of a particular Y DNA haplogroup seems nonsensic as far as defining SNPs do not have any biological function. There are just a few Y DNA haplogroup defining SNPs where it is considered they could have any biological effect at all. SNPs in coding regions is what can make a difference.

[longly]

Because germans are celto-germanic, scandinavians are much closer to proto-germanic peoples.

I think you are right it makes sense the south Germanic tribes were closer to the Celts and the civilized Mediterranean; so naturally, they would be more mixed. The northern Germanics did the same thing just later with a somewhat different mixture. But the Celts and Germanic are closely related as are all Indo-Europeans and Caucasians; we all come from the same family that lived on the steppes in the prehistoric past, including our Arab cousins.

[Rethel]

promotion of R1 supremacy

Give me at least one example, where I am spreading R1 supremacy. Show me, where?


various forums, and from some of them is banned

I am actually banned only in Anthrogenica, where everybody can be banned at any
moment, usually, not because of saying something about hg, but writing something
contradicting hyperüberoversized-to-the-absurd politcorectness.

Here also I wasn't banned becuase of hg stuff, but becuase of religion.

[rothaer]

In general people tend to think they are descendants of very similar barbarian tribes, I dont understand why they dont have the same male ancestry. Scandinavians(finns excluded) are mostly I1 when Germany is a confusion of R1b with R1a with I and others...

Germanics are a linguistic family. There were once people that talked pre-Germanic. They spread also into other areas that were already populated and that previous populations were assimilated. This makes different Germanics having different ancestry. This basically also applies to almost every other language group out there.

[Varda]

However, a supremacy of a particular Y DNA haplogroup seems nonsensic as far as defining SNPs do not have any biological function. There are just a few Y DNA haplogroup defining SNPs where it is considered they could have any biological effect at all. SNPs in coding regions is what can make a difference.

Y dna is micro part of total dna. I don't understand why Rethel forcing so much y dna...

[rothaer]

Y dna is micro part of total dna. I don't understand why Rethel forcing so much y dna...

Agreed to the proportion of genetic importance is very small. IMO Y-DNA is generally overrated by a lot of people. I give it not much importance, but nevertheless I've spent some 400 Dollars on a WGS und uploaded my Y (and mt) DNA data to YFull for curiosity and for contributing to science. From a scientific point of view I regard it ok to dive deep into a detail. So then it may also be justified as a subject of interest, of course.

[Blondie]

I think you are right it makes sense the south Germanic tribes were closer to the Celts and the civilized Mediterranean; so naturally, they would be more mixed. The northern Germanics did the same thing just later with a somewhat different mixture. But the Celts and Germanic are closely related as are all Indo-Europeans and Caucasians; we all come from the same family that lived on the steppes in the prehistoric past, including our Arab cousins.

Arabs are not our cousins, and this south and north german thing doesn't exist in the reality only in internet said by who have never been in Germany, germans are same.

[Aren]

R1 isn't a haplogroup? :picard2:



Nope, is not. More than 50% in whole is R1.
In Danmark 50%, in Sweden a little less, in Norway almost 60%.



It bothers me, as it is over and over reapining nonsense. When I oppose to the idea,
that Abraham was E1, or insist on the fact, now even proven, that Magyars were N1
it means, that I have something common with J1 or N1 or against any other feature?
Just nonsense will remain a nonsese, no matter how many times will be repeated.




:laugh:

R1 isn't that high in Norway. From the Norwegian FTDNA project with over 2000 participants it's 27,0% R1b and 26,7% R1a= 53,7% R1.

[Rethel]

Y dna is micro part of total dna.

Did I ever said, that it is about DNA per se or about the % of total DNA,
and this is the most important, because it is such and such part of DNA?
Usefullness of hg is not about genetics at all. NOT AT ALL.

But on the margine I will say, that this "micro part" made you as the person. If
you would not have Y chromosome, you would be a totaly different person, with
different look, intrests, way of thinking, way of acting, inteligence and whatever
have you - you would be just a woman. Is it really so micro part for you? YOU as
a person - this who you are as a human being - are this supposedly micro diff.
And this has nothing to do, with hg (what you confused) or usefullness of it.


I don't understand why Rethel forcing so much y dna...

I said it 1000th times, I'll say it 1001st, but PLEASE, THIS TIME REMEMBER THIS!
I am not forcing. It is only a tool proving some things. The same as any other kind
of proof or source as for example certificate of birth, marriage contract, or record
of death, extract from land and mortgage register, census, adress book, a register
of baptisms, chronicle, tax register, whatever have you... Just a way to know and
prove things, but the deepest, unfalsifiable and final. Did you get it?

And btw, I am still waiting for your proof of me promoting supremacy.



R1 isn't that high in Norway. From the Norwegian FTDNA project with over 2000 participants it's 27,0% R1b and 26,7% R1a= 53,7% R1.

And Swedish?

[longly]

Arabs are not our cousins, and this south and north german thing doesn't exist in the reality only in internet said by who have never been in Germany, germans are same.

Let start with something simple, do you agree that animals that look similar tend to be more closely related to each other than they are related to animals that do not look similar to them? For example, dogs and cats are more closely related to each other than either is related to fish. Arabs look more like Europeans than they resemble the Chinese or the sub-Saharan Africans. So are not Arabs more closely related to Europeans, making them genetic cousins? In 2017, a genetic test of ancient Egyptian mummies showed they were more related to eastern Europeans than they were related to sub-Saharan Africans. That is why I am convinced that all Caucasians have a recent common ancestor.

[Peterski]

Survive the Jive is my favourite I1 guy.

[Peterski]

R1a and R1b have nothing to do with each other since extremely long time ago.

That is wrong, since both are associated with the same Indo-European Steppe expansion, and it was not so long ago (ca. 4500-5000 years ago). The difference is that R1b-L51 experienced a founder effect in the Bell Beaker branch of Western Indo-Europeans.

[Rethel]

In 2017, a genetic test of ancient Egyptian mummies showed they were more related to eastern Europeans

Because it were IE mummies, who conquered Egypt once or twice
or thrice before Persians. Idk which mummies do you have in mind
but for example the New Kingdom was an IE monarchy, and also it
is possible that Hyxos invasion was at least partialy IE if not mainly.


That is why I am convinced that all Caucasians have a recent common ancestor.

Probably all people have caucasian common ancestor, as all three main human
groups have caucasian reporesentation, as the main branch representing them.

[Blondie]

Let start with something simple, do you agree that animals that look similar tend to be more closely related to each other than they are related to animals that do not look similar to them? For example, dogs and cats are more closely related to each other than either is related to fish. Arabs look more like Europeans than they resemble the Chinese or the sub-Saharan Africans. So are not Arabs more closely related to Europeans, making them genetic cousins? In 2017, a genetic test of ancient Egyptian mummies showed they were more related to eastern Europeans than they were related to sub-Saharan Africans. That is why I am convinced that all Caucasians have a recent common ancestor.

There is no caucasian race identity in Europe, only europeans and non europeans and arabs are not europeans. We don't even care who is caucasiod or not, it's just american thing. If you are are not european (so arab) you will be such foreigner like a chinese...

[Rethel]

There is no caucasian race identity in Europe, only europeans and non europeans and arabs are not europeans. We don't even care who is caucasiod or not, it's just american thing.

Actually yes.
Even darker Europeans could fell to the similar category as Arabs.

It would be strange, if someone would say, that Swede and Russian are in the same category as Saudi, Berber or Somali.

[rothaer]

There is no caucasian race identity in Europe, only europeans and non europeans and arabs are not europeans. We don't even care who is caucasiod or not, it's just american thing.

Correct.

[rothaer]

(...) and this south and north german thing doesn't exist in the reality only in internet said by who have never been in Germany, germans are same.

One should not base views on wrong assumptions, because that would make these views fragile. There are notable genetic differences between Northern and Southern Germans as well as Eastern ones. (If you are interested in this I can tell where and how to dive deeper into this subject.) However, this does in no way question the German people. Especially one should not in an unreflected manner adapt any wrong requirements about homogeneity regarding a people. German people emerging area covers a vast territory and due to the roughly biogeographic continuum in Europe this makes it natural for every people distributed over a bigger area to display respective genetic differences.

There is no sense in opposing a banality. And this banality doesn't change anything. Both commonality and a rich cultural diversity is typical for Germans throughout history. There is not one particular traditional center in Germany, but many. Beside cultural things German people as a biological fact is an old (some thousand years) breeding community (Fortpflanzungsgemeinschaft), that is intertwined also with blood ties. The German people is the superordinate form in which German individuals biologically do exist and can - however potentially - persist indefinitely.

[Leto]

One should not base views on wrong assumptions, because that would make these views fragile. There are notable genetic differences between Northern and Southern Germans as well as Eastern ones. (If you are interested in this I can tell where and how to dive deeper into this subject.) However, this does in no way question the German people. Especially one should not in an unreflected manner adapt any wrong requirements about homogeneity regarding a people. German people emerging area covers a vast territory and due to the roughly biogeographic continuum in Europe this makes it natural for every people distributed over a bigger area to display respective genetic differences.

There is no sense in opposing a banality. But this banality doesn't change anything. Both commonality and a rich cultural diversity is typical for Germans throughout history. There is not one traditional center in Germany, but many. Beside cultural things German people as a biological fact is an old (some thousand years) breeding community (Fortpflanzungsgemeinschaft), that is intertwined also with blood ties. The German people is the superordinate form in which German individuals biologically do exist and can - however potentially - persist indefinitely.
Is the former GDR aka Mitteldeutschland really homogenously "Eastern German" as one user claimed? I mean that was a goddamn political division from the Cold War era not based on genetics whatsoever. Thüringen and Sachsen-Anhalt are not even geographically Eastern in the current BRD borders.

[Leto]

There is no caucasian race identity in Europe, only europeans and non europeans and arabs are not europeans. We don't even care who is caucasiod or not, it's just american thing. If you are are not european (so arab) you will be such foreigner like a chinese...
I know that Turks in Germany do identify as non-white. I once browsed through the Twitter feed of the Türkische Gemeinde and it was full of pro-black and anti-white messages. I doubt Italian or Greek communities would have such a strong attitude.
For example this person in Germany identifies as non-white (Ferda Ataman)
https://img.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2019-03/ferdaataman-2/wide__450x253__mobile

[rothaer]

Is the former GDR aka Mitteldeutschland really homogenously "Eastern German" as one user claimed? I mean that was a goddamn political division from the Cold War era not based on genetics whatsoever. Thüringen and Sachsen-Anhalt are not even geographically Eastern in the current BRD borders.

You mean in a genetical sense?
- Well, first, the smaller area you take the more homogenous a population automatically will be.
- Within former GDR area there is actually a notable North-South cline (independent of an "eastern" influence). This is both visible to the eye, as in mentality as also in genetics.
- And yes, former GDR area basically is over all "Eastern German" genetically, which is caused by former Slavic settlement in that area. This applies both to the north and the south of the former GDR area. You are right, the division was just an arbitrary political one, but it happened kind of by chance to coinceed roughly with the western border of former Slavic settlement.

I attach a map where the border of the former Slavic settlement is displayed.

104175

[rothaer]

Btw. the term Caucasian in Germany (as well as in Russia and probably most European countries) means people from the Caucasus region. So Caucasians is what is (or would be if there wouldn't be police) persecuted in Moscow as foreign.

[Blondie]

One should not base views on wrong assumptions, because that would make these views fragile. There are notable genetic differences between Northern and Southern Germans as well as Eastern ones. (If you are interested in this I can tell where and how to dive deeper into this subject.) However, this does in no way question the German people. Especially one should not in an unreflected manner adapt any wrong requirements about homogeneity regarding a people. German people emerging area covers a vast territory and due to the roughly biogeographic continuum in Europe this makes it natural for every people distributed over a bigger area to display respective genetic differences.

There is no sense in opposing a banality. And this banality doesn't change anything. Both commonality and a rich cultural diversity is typical for Germans throughout history. There is not one particular traditional center in Germany, but many. Beside cultural things German people as a biological fact is an old (some thousand years) breeding community (Fortpflanzungsgemeinschaft), that is intertwined also with blood ties. The German people is the superordinate form in which German individuals biologically do exist and can - however potentially - persist indefinitely.

This is true but i mean germans looks same, here in TA some user claims that south germans are totally wogs and northernes like scandinavians.

[Fedora]

I know that Turks in Germany do identify as non-white. I once browsed through the Twitter feed of the Türkische Gemeinde and it was full of pro-black and anti-white messages. I doubt Italian or Greek communities would have such a strong attitude.
For example this person in Germany identifies as non-white (Ferda Ataman)
https://img.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2019-03/ferdaataman-2/wide__450x253__mobile

Lol, those same politicans are also always anti-turkey.

[Jana]

That is wrong, since both are associated with the same Indo-European Steppe expansion, and it was not so long ago (ca. 4500-5000 years ago). The difference is that R1b-L51 experienced a founder effect in the Bell Beaker branch of Western Indo-Europeans.

No, that is right. They separated tens of thousands of years ago. Deal with it.

[Leto]

Lol, those same politicans are also always anti-turkey.
She's an "author", not an elected politician. I'd say people like that are too liberal/cosmopolitan, too secular for Turkey (let alone Arab states/Iran/Afghanistan) but in Europe they still feel foreign. I mean Cem Özdemir is hardly a staunch Turkish nationalist, let alone an Islamist. Even his wife is Argentine and neither Turkish, nor Muslim.

[Rethel]

No, that is right. They separated tens of thousands of years ago. Deal with it.

And... what? :confused:

[KirillMazur]

This is true but i mean germans looks same, here in TA some user claims that south germans are totally wogs and northernes like scandinavians.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?311148-Are-Germans-dark-or-swarthy&p=6418338&viewfull=1#post6418338

The population of Germany in terms of swarthiness approximately corresponds to the level of Russia.
The north of Germany is as blonde on average as the Russian north, and southern Germany, Austria and the German-speaking part of Switzerland are approximately equal to southern Russia (Crimea, Krasnodar and Rostov regions) in terms of pigmentation intensity.
I believe that this is still quite far from the concept of "swarthiness."

[zebruh]

I1 is obviously scando because i1 is where it peaks the most out of all places. Outside of scandnavia its not so common i believe. Where R1 just fucked like mad rabbits so they have R1 everywhere like crazy.
We did find a J2 viking though which was interesting.

[Immanenz]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?311148-Are-Germans-dark-or-swarthy&p=6418338&viewfull=1#post6418338

dont think South Germans can be as wog as South Russians with the presence of Armenoid - like individuals etc. Most data and maps are shwoing the contrary.

[Jana]

I1 is obviously scando because i1 is where it peaks the most out of all places. Outside of scandnavia its not so common i believe. Where R1 just fucked like mad rabbits so they have R1 everywhere like crazy.
We did find a J2 viking though which was interesting.

Highest frequency doesn't equal place of origin. R1b peaks among Basques but it comes from Pontic-Caspian steppe.
I2-din peaks in BiH Croats but originates most likely from NW Europe.

Etc.

[KirillMazur]

dont think South Germans can be as wog as South Russians with the presence of Armenoid - like individuals etc. Most data and maps are shwoing the contrary.
Southern Russians are in sharp contrast to the Armenoids, it's just that a lot of Armenians have historically lived in the south of Russia, especially in the Stavropol region and Krasnodar krai. But the degree of mixing is not great yet. This is about the same how the Turks will considered Germans in 100 years by statistics.

[Dan Coren]

dont think South Germans can be as wog as South Russians with the presence of Armenoid - like individuals etc. Most data and maps are shwoing the contrary.

I think they may be as dark as them, due to dinarid presence.

[Leto]

dont think South Germans can be as wog as South Russians with the presence of Armenoid - like individuals etc. Most data and maps are shwoing the contrary.
"Southern Russians" are not particularly more Southern than an average East Slav. They are certainly less so than Carpathian Ukrainians or Slovaks. At least it's nothing like in Italy for example where "Southern" would mean a sharp genetic difference besides geographical.
I have plenty of GEDmatch examples but this thread is not about Slavs or Russians.

[Leto]

Southern Russians are in sharp contrast to the Armenoids, it's just that a lot of Armenians have historically lived in the south of Russia, especially in the Stavropol region and Krasnodar krai. But the degree of mixing is not great yet. This is about the same how the Turks will considered Germans in 100 years by statistics.
Most (but not all) Armenians in the South are from the last 30 years, just saying. They have flooded the region and the country in general starting in the late 1980s.

[KirillMazur]

Most (but not all) Armenians in the South are from the last 30 years, just saying. They have flooded the region and the country in general starting in the late 1980s.
So the situation is even closer to the German one:).

[Dick]

Highest frequency doesn't equal place of origin. R1b peaks among Basques but it comes from Pontic-Caspian steppe.
I2-din peaks in BiH Croats but originates most likely from NW Europe.

Etc.

If Basque R1b was there before IE invasion then the Caucasian origin theory of the Basque language and the languages of the Caucasus being related may be plausible.

[Dan Coren]

If Basque R1b was there before IE invasion then the Caucasian origin theory of the Basque language and the languages of the Caucasus being related may be plausible.

There's even west african R1b-V88 with no link with the steppe indo-europeans. If you look on eupedia's maps about pre-IE invasion haplogroups in europe you would see a subclade of R1b around the baltics/finland or NW europe, I don't think r1b is fully IE in origin, but hunter gatherer of some sort. That's why R1a was so widespread in IE conquerors, because HG males mixed with CHG women or EEF(remember abashevo had quite high EEF-like ancestry compared to yamna), so all of this R1/R2 haplogroups could be actually from ANE in origin, or central/north asian from 10k yrs ago, and migrated all the way to west europe(some) or back in africa (r1b-v88).

[Jana]

If Basque R1b was there before IE invasion then the Caucasian origin theory of the Basque language and the languages of the Caucasus being related may be plausible.

Well it clearly wasn't. It spread there with R1b Bell Beakers. Original Basques were probably G2a, since many linguists consider their language dating to the neolithic.

[Dick]

There's even west african R1b-V88 with no link with the steppe indo-europeans. If you look on eupedia's maps about pre-IE invasion haplogroups in europe you would see a subclade of R1b around the baltics/finland or NW europe, I don't think r1b is fully IE in origin, but hunter gatherer of some sort. That's why R1a was so widespread in IE conquerors, because HG males mixed with CHG women or EEF(remember abashevo had quite high EEF-like ancestry compared to yamna), so all of this R1/R2 haplogroups could be actually from ANE in origin, or central/north asian from 10k yrs ago, and migrated all the way to west europe(some) or back in africa (r1b-v88).

Right, good point. R1 is from ANE and we know original R carriers were siberian types.

[Jana]

There's even west african R1b-V88 with no link with the steppe indo-europeans. If you look on eupedia's maps about pre-IE invasion haplogroups in europe you would see a subclade of R1b around the baltics/finland or NW europe, I don't think r1b is fully IE in origin, but hunter gatherer of some sort. That's why R1a was so widespread in IE conquerors, because HG males mixed with CHG women or EEF(remember abashevo had quite high EEF-like ancestry compared to yamna), so all of this R1/R2 haplogroups could be actually from ANE in origin, or central/north asian from 10k yrs ago, and migrated all the way to west europe(some) or back in africa (r1b-v88).

All European R1b is IE in origin without exception. Type of R1b found in some Hunter Gatherers belonged to African branch and unrelated to R1b branches of modern European males.

[Immanenz]

"Southern Russians" are not particularly more Southern than an average East Slav. They are certainly less so than Carpathian Ukrainians or Slovaks. At least it's nothing like in Italy for example where "Southern" would mean a sharp genetic difference besides geographical.
I have plenty of GEDmatch examples but this thread is not about Slavs or Russians.

genetically perhabs, but it was about a quote stating that Crimeas, Krasnodars and people from Rostov are as dark/light like South Germans, which is not


Southern Russians are in sharp contrast to the Armenoids, it's just that a lot of Armenians have historically lived in the south of Russia, especially in the Stavropol region and Krasnodar krai. But the degree of mixing is not great yet. This is about the same how the Turks will considered Germans in 100 years by statistics.

well i would agree to some extent, but still there will be overlapp with geographical near popuation like in NW of Russia with Karelian Finns and so on...
the bold statement is of course true, It will have his effect for sure. Same can be said for most Westeuropean countries. Also there will be demographic changes in every country with low fertility rate

[Dick]

Well it clearly wasn't. It spread there with R1b Bell Beakers. Original Basques were probably G2a, since many linguists consider their language dating to the neolithic.

I don't know their subclades. So like Otzi's G2a

[2garin]

"Southern Russians" are not particularly more Southern than an average East Slav. They are certainly less so than Carpathian Ukrainians or Slovaks. At least it's nothing like in Italy for example where "Southern" would mean a sharp genetic difference besides geographical.
I have plenty of GEDmatch examples but this thread is not about Slavs or Russians.

Southern Russians and Ukrainians are darker than Southern Germans; Northern Russians and Belarusians are lighter than Northern Germans. Deal with it, man ;)
https://i.imgur.com/tJ9U0tp.jpg

[Leto]

genetically perhabs, but it was about a quote stating that Crimeas, Krasnodars and people from Rostov are as dark/light like South Germans, which is not


Southern Russians and Ukrainians are darker than Southern Germans; Northern Russians and Belarusians are lighter than Northern Germans. Deal with it, man ;)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/tJ9U0tp.jpg
And? I didn't even say anything about that comparison. Why are the two groups being compared to each other in the first place? All I know is that both unmixed Southern Russians and Southern Germans look totally normal and predictable for their genetics in most cases. Leave that taxonomy bullshit to anthrotards.

[KirillMazur]

Southern Russians and Ukrainians are darker than Southern Germans; Northern Russians and Belarusians are lighter than Northern Germans. Deal with it, man ;)
https://i.imgur.com/tJ9U0tp.jpg
Great map, judging by it, the Crimeans and other southern Russians are darker than the Romanians, Bulgarians and southern French. Thank that at least we are lighter than the Moroccans. now we can sleep in peace:D.

And? I didn't even say anything about that comparison. Why are the two groups being compared to each other in the first place? All I know is that both unmixed Southern Russians and Southern Germans look totally normal and predictable for their genetics in most cases. Leave that taxonomy bullshit to anthrotards.
+1. I think it's time to finish here.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Different Germanic branches (Scandinavian, Ingvaeonic, Irmionic and Istvaeonic), I reckon absorbed different substrates.

Haplogroup I (dominant in scandinavia excluding finland) is not Germanic, not indoeuropean at all. It rather comes from the same clade with haplogroup J

[Figaro]

Haplogroup I (dominant in scandinavia excluding finland) is not Germanic, not indoeuropean at all. It rather comes from the same clade with haplogroup J

Wasn’t discussing Y haplogroup I.

[Rethel]

I1 is obviously scando because i1 is where it peaks the most out of all places.

The fact, that has the highest percentage (not the number, neither density) doesn't mean, that:
1) is IE, 2) is germanic, 3) is originally noridc or 4) is the main scandinavian or main germanic hg.


Highest frequency doesn't equal place of origin. R1b peaks among Basques but it comes from Pontic-Caspian steppe.
I2-din peaks in BiH Croats but originates most likely from NW Europe.

Etc.

Reason comes back? :)


If Basque R1b was there before IE invasion then the Caucasian origin theory of the Basque language and the languages of the Caucasus being related may be plausible.

Nope. If it is so, I would rather bet on Farmerians-G2. But personally I subscribe to the
option which tells that basquish language is remain of I-people, so my own advise to you
as to free man would be: buy an english-basque selfteacher and find some nice blackish girl :p


There's even west african R1b-V88 with no link with the steppe indo-europeans.

With the strong proved IE link, even with a tie to the steppes.


I don't think r1b is fully IE in origin, but hunter gatherer of some sort.

IEs couldn't be HGs? :shocked:


so all of this R1/R2 haplogroups could be actually from ANE in origin,

EHG. ANE = castizo EHG+AmerInd.



Right, good point. R1 is from ANE and we know original R carriers were siberian types.

EHG. Eastern european or/and at best western siberian.


All European R1b is IE in origin without exception. Type of R1b found in some Hunter Gatherers belonged to African branch and unrelated to R1b branches of modern European males.

To IE HGs, and still exists in Europe.


Southern Russians and Ukrainians are darker than Southern Germans; Northern Russians and Belarusians are lighter than Northern Germans. Deal with it, man ;)

Actually in anthropological material can be found statements,
which claim, that Russkies have very light skin, lightest than
even Scandinavians. Hair could be a different thing.

[longly]

There is no caucasian race identity in Europe, only europeans and non europeans and arabs are not europeans. We don't even care who is caucasiod or not, it's just american thing. If you are are not european (so arab) you will be such foreigner like a chinese...

It doesn’t matter if one identifies with something or not; that doesn’t prevent it from existing. What is, is whether you like it or not.
You can call it what you want, but the indigenous people of western Eurasia and North Africa are closely related to Europeans. Just because one has somewhat darker skin doesn’t prevent them from belonging to the same group of people. The people in parts of the Middle East and North Africa have darker skin, but I believe the color of one’s skin has more to do with the sun than anything else.

A foreigner is a person who is not of your nation; is Europe one nation?