Burmese or Filipinos: who is more Caucasoid?

[Maguzanci]

What do you think? Who has more West Eurasian ancestry? From the most western region of SE Asia which is Myanmar to the Easternmost country which is Philippines.

[Jased]

Hard choice I guess, even pure amerindian are more West - Eurasian than both groups which Is kinda Ironic to me.

[Maguzanci]

Hard choice I guess, even pure amerindian are more West - Eurasian than both groups which Is kinda Ironic to me.

That's true. Amerindians are approximately around 23-30% West Eurasian thanks to their 30-40% ANE ancestry which makes them as Caucasoid as some Central Asian and Siberian Turks like Altaian, Khakas or even Kyrgyz.

Why do you think its kinda ironic?

[Maguzanci]

Hard choice I guess, even pure amerindian are more West - Eurasian than both groups which Is kinda Ironic to me.

Anyway I know the answer but I want to see what users here would think.

[Maguzanci]

I will hint one thing though: contrary to the popular belief, most Filipinos have very little Caucasoid. They are predominantly Mongoloid despite the legends of supposed Spaniard ancestors.

[Trouble]

Burmese

[Maguzanci]

Burmese

I agreed. Their significant South Asian ancestry gives them a good amount of West Eurasian admix. While Philipinos have very little Caucasoid but people will think its the latter because of their Spanish sounding names, Catholicism and any other connection to Spain and the New World lmao.

In fact, I think Pinos are one of the least Caucasoid admixed SE Asians on average besides a lot of Indonesians (lots of Indos from Java and anywhere east have abysmally little Caucasoid despite their high South Asian/AASI-like admixture from dna results that i saw lol) Laotians, Vietnamese, some isolated tribal groups and Negritos.

[Trouble]

I agreed. Their significant South Asian ancestry gives them a good amount of West Eurasian admix. While Philipinos have very little Caucasoid but people will think its the latter because of their Spanish sounding names, Catholicism and any other connection to Spain and the New World lmao.

In fact, I think Pinos are one of the least Caucasoid admixed SE Asians on average besides a lot of Indonesians (lots of Indos from Java and anywhere east have abysmally little Caucasoid despite their high South Asian/AASI-like admixture from dna results that i saw lol) Laotians, Vietnamese, some isolated tribal groups and Negritos.

How do we know Burmese SI is not Onge like?

[Maguzanci]

How do we know Burmese SI is not Onge like?

Because if its Onge-like they wouldn't score any Iran N or Steppe? The Western ancestry of the Burmese seems Iran N+Stepped which makes me think its come from actual Indians than something Onge-like.

I don't think Onges or anything like it would have any West Eurasian?

[Thambi]

Burmese for sure

[Maguzanci]

Burmese for sure

I agreed. Their significant South Asian ancestry gives them a good amount of West Eurasian admix. While Philipinos have very little Caucasoid but people will think its the latter because of their Spanish sounding names, Catholicism and any other connection to Spain and the New World lmao.

In fact, I think Pinos are one of the least Caucasoid admixed SE Asians on average besides a lot of Indonesians (lots of Indos from Java and anywhere east have abysmally little Caucasoid despite their high South Asian/AASI-like admixture from dna results that i saw lol) Laotians, Vietnamese, some isolated tribal groups and Negritos.

[Trouble]

Because if its Onge-like they wouldn't score any Iran N or Steppe? The Western ancestry of the Burmese seems Iran N+Stepped which makes me think its come from actual Indians than something Onge-like.

I don't think Onges or anything like it would have any West Eurasian?


Yep, Onge have 50% SI but no Baloch, no Ne Euro instead a mix of NE Asian, SE Asian, and Papuan. Weird combo

[Dirdepo]

Filipinas more MENA, Burmese more SI

[Maguzanci]

Filipinas more MENA, Burmese more SI

Interesting. What makes you think that?

Despite that Burmese still have more Caucasoid on average than Filipinas.

[Dirdepo]

Interesting. What makes you think that?

Despite that Burmese still have more Caucasoid on average than Filipinas.

Burmese more Indian, Filipinas more Sephardic Jewish

[Thambi]

I agreed. Their significant South Asian ancestry gives them a good amount of West Eurasian admix. While Philipinos have very little Caucasoid but people will think its the latter because of their Spanish sounding names, Catholicism and any other connection to Spain and the New World lmao.

In fact, I think Pinos are one of the least Caucasoid admixed SE Asians on average besides a lot of Indonesians (lots of Indos from Java and anywhere east have abysmally little Caucasoid despite their high South Asian/AASI-like admixture from dna results that i saw lol) Laotians, Vietnamese, some isolated tribal groups and Negritos.

hell even thais are more west eurasian than filipinos.


Target: Thai
Distance: 1.5087% / 0.01508676
42.0 LAO_LN_BA
28.0 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
16.2 TWN_Hanben
6.4 AASI
6.4 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Burmese
Distance: 1.8510% / 0.01851048
46.2 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN
31.4 LAO_LN_BA
10.2 AASI
6.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
4.6 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Luzon
Distance: 1.6824% / 0.01682379
96.0 TWN_Hanben
3.6 AASI
0.4 LAO_LN_BA

[Maguzanci]

hell even thais are more west eurasian than filipinos.


Target: Thai
Distance: 1.5087% / 0.01508676
42.0 LAO_LN_BA
28.0 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
16.2 TWN_Hanben
6.4 AASI
6.4 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Burmese
Distance: 1.8510% / 0.01851048
46.2 CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN
31.4 LAO_LN_BA
10.2 AASI
6.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
4.6 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Luzon
Distance: 1.6824% / 0.01682379
96.0 TWN_Hanben
3.6 AASI
0.4 LAO_LN_BA

You should also run the Vizayan, Igorot and Aeta Negrito. Those are also Filipino samples.

I would say even Malays and Cambodians are more West Eurasian than Filipinos. GaneshDSouza is going to be upset lol. I think Filipinos would be very jealous of how much Caucasoid Burmese, Thai, Cambodians, Malays score. They wiuld wish they have that much Spanish rofl. :rofl_002::rotfl:pound:

[Thambi]

You should also run the Vizayan, Igorot and Aeta Negrito. Those are also Filipino samples.

I would say even Malays and Cambodians are more West Eurasian than Filipinos. GaneshDSouza is going to be upset lol. I think Filipinos would be very jealous of how much Caucasoid Burmese, Thai, Cambodians, Malays score. They wiuld wish they have that much Spanish rofl. :rofl_002::rotfl:pound:

cambodians get abour 2.6% while Vizayan gets 2.8% surprisingly. but again its only one sample for the vizayan. do they have different mixture compared to regular luzon folks usually?

Target: Vizayan:GS000019970
Distance: 2.4166% / 0.02416644
85.2 TWN_Hanben
5.4 VUT_2300BP_all
3.8 AASI
2.8 LAO_LN_BA
1.6 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Target: Cambodian (actually one of the cambodian samples is chinese shifted with no west eurasian so that could be pulling down the average. the other samples got 4-5%)
Distance: 1.4996% / 0.01499620
59.0 LAO_LN_BA
23.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
11.6 TWN_Hanben
3.2 AASI
1.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.0 TKM_Gonur1_BA

Igorots are completely 100% austronesian

Target: Igorot
Distance: 3.1485% / 0.03148490
100.0 TWN_Hanben

[Maguzanci]

cambodians get abour 2.6% while Vizayan gets 2.8% surprisingly. but again its only one sample for the vizayan. do they have different mixture compared to regular luzon folks usually?

Target: Vizayan:GS000019970
Distance: 2.4166% / 0.02416644
85.2 TWN_Hanben
5.4 VUT_2300BP_all
3.8 AASI
2.8 LAO_LN_BA
1.6 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Target: Cambodian
Distance: 1.4996% / 0.01499620
59.0 LAO_LN_BA
23.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
11.6 TWN_Hanben
3.2 AASI
1.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.0 TKM_Gonur1_BA

Igorots are completely 100% austronesian

Target: Igorot
Distance: 3.1485% / 0.03148490
100.0 TWN_Hanben

Do you think its strange that the Vizayan sample doesn't show any Iberian but some South Asian admixture (Iran N/BMAC and Steppe)?

I don't know if they have different admixtures compare to Luzon folks but they seem to be geographically closer to Indonesia and Malaysia so maybe actual Indian gene flow. I think we need more Vizayan samples to be sure. But if I remember, most Pinos including Visayans have very little South Asian-like admixture, so this individual sample actually surprises me. It would be great if there are more Luzon and Vizayan samples on G25 so we can have a clearer picture. Sucks there is only 1 for each of them.

And yes, Igorot seems 100% Mongoloid its like they descended completely from Taiwan Aborigines.

Btw here are two Cambodian samples from G25 individual spreadsheet. They seem to score higher Caucasoid than Pinos. I didn't include the third one because the individual seems like half Chinese.

Distance: 2.0100% / 0.02010037
Target: Cambodian:HGDP00711
75.4 LAO_LN_BA
10.3 TWN_Hanben
5.7 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
4.5 AASI_1
2.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.5 TKM_Gonur1_BA

Distance: 2.4231% / 0.02423111
Target: Cambodian:HGDP00713
70.5 LAO_LN_BA
11.0 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
9.6 TWN_Hanben
4.5 TKM_Gonur1_BA
3.4 AASI_2
1.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Actually I think adding the Dai as a source pop for Cambodians also help improve the fits.

Most Filipinos have like only 1-5% Caucasoid but I think I seen more of those who have only 1-3% than those who are 4-5%. Pinoys who have like 10% West Eurasian or more seems pretty rare.

Btw here are the two most Caucasoid-shifted Thai samples: around 10-11% West Eurasian. I think Filipinos would died to have this much amount of Spanish lol.

Distance: 2.0942% / 0.02094200
Target: Thai:DCH002
30.4 Dai
29.2 LAO_LN_BA
16.7 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
10.8 AASI_1
6.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
5.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.5 TWN_Hanben

Distance: 2.2258% / 0.02225751
Target: Thai:DCH006
44.3 LAO_LN_BA
27.9 Dai
9.2 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
6.8 AASI_1
5.1 TKM_Gonur1_BA
5.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.7 AASI_2

[Thambi]

SE asian group averages. Thais and burmese seem to be the most caucasoid shifted while filipinos and vietnamese the least.

https://i.imgur.com/bB5Aoeh.png

[Ascended]

Some Burmese look like slant eyed Bengalis tbh

[Kaazi]

SE asian group averages. Thais and burmese seem to be the most caucasoid shifted while filipinos and vietnamese the least.

https://i.imgur.com/bB5Aoeh.png

Didn't know Thais have higher West Eurasian ratio than Burmese. SE Asian natives doesn't seem to have any imprint from European/Arab colonials/invaders.

[Thambi]

Do you think its strange that the Vizayan sample doesn't show any Iberian but some South Asian admixture (Iran N/BMAC and Steppe)?

yeah i tried with iberian plus euro populations overall like irish, english, russian, greek, etc along with Iranian populations without any AASI like the mazandaranis/lors/fars to avoid any pull. All the SE samples get iranian rather than any euro mix. So almost all the west eurasian influence in SE asia is from south asia. I dont think its too strange but what i do find weird is luzon getting no such mix. However as you mentioned, it could be cause vizayans are geographically closer to indonesia.

[Thambi]

Didn't know Thais have higher West Eurasian ratio than Burmese. SE Asian natives doesn't seem to have any imprint from European/Arab colonials/invaders.

there are only 3 burmese samples so that could be it. On gedmatch, burmese definitely are more caucasoid shifted than thais. I've seen burmese with good amount of baloch before. not just that quarter south asian leaning sample i shared.

Also the thai samples seem to be overly southern thai or something on G25. northern and bangkok thais will certainly have lower south asian mix than the thai average above.

[Trouble]

So Thais have West Eurasian admixture??

[Maguzanci]

SE asian group averages. Thais and burmese seem to be the most caucasoid shifted while filipinos and vietnamese the least.

https://i.imgur.com/bB5Aoeh.png

You forgot to add the Malays but they also have higher Caucasoid than Pinos:

Distance: 1.5533% / 0.01553266
Target: Malay
43.3 MYS_LN
41.5 TWN_Hanben
5.6 AASI_1
4.0 TKM_Gonur1_BA
2.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
1.7 LAO_LN_BA
1.1 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Even the two Cambodian individuals I posted above are around 4-6% Caucasoid which is higher than the Filipinos

Distance: 1.7371% / 0.01737063
Target: Cambodian:HGDP00711
38.2 LAO_LN_BA
34.2 MYS_LN
8.8 TWN_Hanben
6.5 Dai
5.0 AASI_1
3.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
3.1 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.6 TKM_Gonur1_BA


Distance: 2.0994% / 0.02099438
Target: Cambodian:HGDP00713
43.7 LAO_LN_BA
22.1 Dai
17.4 MYS_LN
4.4 AASI_3
4.4 TWN_Hanben
3.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
2.7 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.1 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA


Heck look at these two most Caucasoid-shifted Thai individuals who around 11 to almost 13% West Eurasian. Filipinos would died to have this amount of Caucasoid from their Spanish admixture lmao.

Distance: 1.7085% / 0.01708475
Target: Thai:DCH002
33.5 MYS_LN
20.1 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
19.3 Dai
8.7 AASI_3
6.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.9 TKM_Gonur1_BA
5.9 TWN_Hanben

Distance: 1.9705% / 0.01970503
Target: Thai:DCH006
37.2 MYS_LN
25.4 Dai
10.5 CHN_Yellow_River_LBIA
8.9 LAO_LN_BA
6.3 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.1 AASI_3
4.4 TKM_Gonur1_BA
1.2 AASI_2

P.S- I decided to add the MYS_LN as it gives better fits for the Malays and Thais, also I added three AASI samples that is AASI_1 (Simulated by Matt), AASI_2 (Simulated by Traject) and AASI_3 (Hakkipikki- simulated by DMXX) to get better estimates for the actual amount of AASI ancestry in SE Asians: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?17794-New-Simulated-AASI-G25-Coordinates-(-Updates)

Most Filipinos have like only 1-5% Caucasoid but I think I seen more of those who have only 1-3% than those who are 4-5%. Pinoys who have like 10% West Eurasian or more seems pretty rare.

[Trouble]

My guess is Burmese AASI coming from Onge while Thai from the subcontinent

[Maguzanci]

Didn't know Thais have higher West Eurasian ratio than Burmese. SE Asian natives doesn't seem to have any imprint from European/Arab colonials/invaders.

I think it depends on where the Thai samples are from. I think Northern Thais/Kham Mueang and locals from Northern Isaan (Southern Isaan used to be part of Khmer Empire so I think they will be much more like Cambodians) will have a lot lower West Eurasian than the Burmese. Because I saw Laotian individuals on Gedmatch and they have very low South Asian and almost zero West Eurasian unlike the Thais. So I assume the Northern Thai and Northern Isaan individuals will be similar to the Laotians in terms of their Caucasoid admixture.

Some Indonesians and Malaysian do have Arab or West Asian input while Pinoys mainly have European but that's it.

[Thambi]

My guess is Burmese AASI coming from Onge while Thai from the subcontinent

yeah that seems to be the case. AASI and west eurasian are roughly similar among thais, with some having more west eurasian/aasi ratio. i guess they had influence from the south indian midcastes to northern brahmins.

[Maguzanci]

there are only 3 burmese samples so that could be it. On gedmatch, burmese definitely are more caucasoid shifted than thais. I've seen burmese with good amount of baloch before. not just that quarter south asian leaning sample i shared.

Also the thai samples seem to be overly southern thai or something on G25. northern and bangkok thais will certainly have lower south asian mix than the thai average above.

What's sucks is that there are very little Burmese kits on Gedmatch compared to other SE Asians. On the other hand, Philipino gedmatch kits are so numerous and most of them have very little Caucasoid. There are even more Indonesians on Gedmatch than kits from Myanmar.

They couldl be Southern Thais or they could come from Western part of Thailand near the border with Burma like Tak, Kanchanaburi, Ratchaburi, Phetchaburi, etc. Northern Thais definitely have lower South Asian admix because they seem to be predominantly Dai-like genetically but not Bangkok Thais. I actually have seen a lot of Bangkok Thai kits who have the same amount South Asian ancestry as the Thai average.

[Maguzanci]

So Thais have West Eurasian admixture??

They do have. Most Thai gedmatch kits that I saw have a good amount of West Eurasian except those who are ethnic Chinese (like me), from Northern Thailand (they seem to be genetically predominantly Dai-like), Northern Isaan (similar to Laos) or tribal ethnic minorities.

[Thambi]

What's sucks is that there are very little Burmese kits on Gedmatch compared to other SE Asians. On the other hand, Philipino gedmatch kits are so numerous and most of them have very little Caucasoid. There are even more Indonesians on Gedmatch than kits from Myanmar.

They couldl be Southern Thais or they could come from Western part of Thailand near the border with Burma like Tak, Kanchanaburi, Ratchaburi, Phetchaburi, etc. Northern Thais definitely have lower South Asian admix because they seem to be predominantly Dai-like genetically but not Bangkok Thais. I actually have seen a lot of Bangkok Thai kits who have the same amount South Asian ancestry as the Thai average.

yeah very few burmese kits on gedmatch. half of them I got from you lol.

I came across several thai kits and almost everyone was heavily southern chinese leaning lol. they're probably mostly northern thais. the highest S indian ive seen for a thai was like 13% with 4% baloch and 2% caucasian. I havent seen anyone with 14% S indian so far unlike the thai avg. on harappa.

most thais live around bangkok and northeast anyways so they're representative. southern thailand has a decent amount of people as well, but not as much as the former two regions

[Maguzanci]

yeah i tried with iberian plus euro populations overall like irish, english, russian, greek, etc along with Iranian populations without any AASI like the mazandaranis/lors/fars to avoid any pull. All the SE samples get iranian rather than any euro mix. So almost all the west eurasian influence in SE asia is from south asia. I dont think its too strange but what i do find weird is luzon getting no such mix. However as you mentioned, it could be cause vizayans are geographically closer to indonesia.

Its a bit strange to me that the Vizayan individual is getting TKM Gonur and Yamnaya which is a signal of South Asian admixture but no European ancestry because most Filipino results that I saw have very little South Asian. In fact, I have seen only two Filipinas who got really decent South Asian (they also score Iran_N/Baloch) and seem to have very little to no Euro, but their results seem like an outlier compared to most Pinoys.

And yep, I agreed the Western gene flow is mainly from the Indian subcontinent. The Luzon individual could be from an area where the Spaniards or Latinos didn't settle down (I heard that a lot of Philipinos actually receive their European admixture from the mixed race Latin American soldiers who were sent to Philippines by Spain). I actually have seen a few Filipino gedmatch kits who seem 100% Mongoloid.

Actually I heard of a legend about how Visayans actually come from Sumatra in Indonesia several centuries ago before settling down in modern day Philippines. And I have seen a few Filipino gedmatch kits who seem to have actual South Asian admixture (not those two Filipinas) but their results seem pretty atypical and outlier.

[Maguzanci]

yeah very few burmese kits on gedmatch. half of them I got from you lol.

I came across several thai kits and almost everyone was heavily southern chinese leaning lol. they're probably mostly northern thais. the highest S indian ive seen for a thai was like 13% with 4% baloch and 2% caucasian. I havent seen anyone with 14% S indian so far unlike the thai avg. on harappa.

most thais live around bangkok and northeast anyways so they're representative. southern thailand has a decent amount of people as well, but not as much as the former two regions

That's true. I guess its because there is very little Burmese in the diaspora compared to other SE Asians. So they probably never heard of DNA tests lmao.

Actually I have seen a few Thai kits who doesn't seem that much Southern Chinese influenced. Not necessarily, those Chinese admixed individuals could also come from Bangkok, other provinces in Central and Eastern regions of Thailand (a lot of Chinese settled down in the Central Plains and Eastern coast of Thailand because most of them come by junk boats from China). Northern Thailand probably have less Chinese admixture than Central and Eastern Thailand tbh because its landlocked while the two latter regions is connected to the sea.

There are a few Thai gedmatch results who have higher than 14% South Indian, I will post them later.

Damn Im so ignorant of my own nation! I didn't even know that Isaan/Northeast is the most populous region. I thought it would be Central lol. But anyways yes most Thais live in Central and around Northeast region. Keep in mind though, that there could be some genetic difference between Northern part of Northeast/Isaan and Southern part of Northeast. The latter part is more Mon Khmer-like (used to be part of Khmer Empire) and will probably be similar to Cambodians in terms of their South Asian affinity while the former part used to be part of the Kingdom of Lanxang (which is a Laotian kingdom) seems genetically similar to Laos but with more actual South Asian admixture (The South Asian score in Laotians seem to be AASI/Onge or something local than actual Indian admixture).

[Maguzanci]

yeah very few burmese kits on gedmatch. half of them I got from you lol.

I came across several thai kits and almost everyone was heavily southern chinese leaning lol. they're probably mostly northern thais. the highest S indian ive seen for a thai was like 13% with 4% baloch and 2% caucasian. I havent seen anyone with 14% S indian so far unlike the thai avg. on harappa.

most thais live around bangkok and northeast anyways so they're representative. southern thailand has a decent amount of people as well, but not as much as the former two regions

Btw, I believe Northern Thailand would be the least West Eurasian admixed region as the South Asian affinity there seems rather low compared to other places in the country. Also Northern Thais/Tai Yuan seem to be mainly descended from the Tai-Kadai migrations from Yunnan, while in other parts of Thailand, there is a lot of admixture with Mon-Khmers, Chinese, Malays, Negritos and other groups that used to live in this region. I would even go as a far as deducing that Northern Thailand and maybe Northern Isaan are the only authentic "Thai" regions of the country genetically. Hell, I don't even think that "Thai" as an ethnicity really existed as its a mix of all different amalgamations of various ethnic groups.

Here are a few Thai kits who have more than 14% South Indian.

1. Not exactly sure where the user is from but seems to be from somewhere in Southern Thailand. Almost 17% S Indian, 5.83% Baloch, 1.5% SW Asian, 0.94% NE Euro, 0.41% Caucasian.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 50.6
2 NE-Asian 17.74
3 S-Indian 16.64
4 Baloch 5.83
5 Siberian 1.83
6 Papuan 1.8
7 SW-Asian 1.5
8 Beringian 1.43
9 American 1.11
10 NE-Euro 0.94
11 Caucasian 0.41
12 E-African 0.14
13 W-African 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 thai (xing) 12.12
2 khmer-cambodian (xing) 13.16
3 cambodian (hgdp) 22.01
4 lahu (hgdp) 23.5
5 kinh (1000genomes) 23.96
6 singapore-malay (sgvp) 24.38
7 khasi (chaubey) 25
8 vietnamese (xing) 25.4
9 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 26.46
10 dai (hgdp) 26.97
11 burmanese (chaubey) 32.09
12 garo (chaubey) 35.28
13 iban (xing) 40.5
14 samoan (xing) 42.08
15 great-andamanese (reich) 44.56
16 onge (reich) 45.31
17 tongan (xing) 45.69
18 miao (hgdp) 45.73
19 singapore-chinese (sgvp) 47.63
20 bonda (chaubey) 49.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.6% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.4% nepalese-c (xing) @ 2.53
2 83.1% thai (xing) + 16.9% nepalese-b (xing) @ 3.59
3 69.8% dai (hgdp) + 30.2% tharu (reich) @ 3.8
4 82.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 17.1% nepalese-a (xing) @ 4.24
5 82.8% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 17.2% burusho (hgdp) @ 4.27
6 82.6% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 17.4% up-muslim (harappa) @ 4.32
7 82.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 17.1% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 4.35
8 83.5% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.5% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 4.39
9 83.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.8% punjabi (harappa) @ 4.41
10 70.4% singapore-malay (sgvp) + 29.6% nepalese-b (xing) @ 4.44
11 83% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 17% kashmiri (harappa) @ 4.49
12 70.2% dai (hgdp) + 29.8% satnami (reich) @ 4.49
13 83.4% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.6% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 4.52
14 83.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.9% punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) @ 4.53
15 72.3% dai (hgdp) + 27.7% bhil (reich) @ 4.54
16 82.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 17.1% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 4.54
17 83.6% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.4% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 4.54
18 83.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.9% bihari-muslim (harappa) @ 4.56
19 82.6% thai (xing) + 17.4% nepalese-c (xing) @ 4.57
20 83.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 16.1% gujarati (harappa) @ 4.59


2. Not sure where in Thailand she is originally from She seems to be adopted and lives in Australia though. Around 19% S Indian, 6.5% Baloch, 1.25% Caucasian, 0.77% NE Euro and 0.22% SW Asian.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 49.51
2 S-Indian 19.26
3 NE-Asian 17.14
4 Baloch 6.5
5 Siberian 2.89
6 Papuan 1.34
7 Caucasian 1.25
8 NE-Euro 0.77
9 E-African 0.49
10 W-African 0.43
11 SW-Asian 0.22
12 San 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 thai (xing) 13.31
2 khmer-cambodian (xing) 14.9
3 khasi (chaubey) 23.04
4 cambodian (hgdp) 23.42
5 lahu (hgdp) 25.48
6 singapore-malay (sgvp) 25.73
7 kinh (1000genomes) 26.26
8 vietnamese (xing) 27.6
9 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 28.86
10 dai (hgdp) 29.37
11 burmanese (chaubey) 31.77
12 garo (chaubey) 34.84
13 iban (xing) 41.87
14 great-andamanese (reich) 42.33
15 onge (reich) 43.12
16 samoan (xing) 43.66
17 bonda (chaubey) 46.5
18 juang (chaubey) 46.53
19 miao (hgdp) 46.84
20 tongan (xing) 47.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 22% nepalese-c (xing) @ 2.74
2 67% dai (hgdp) + 33% tharu (reich) @ 3.34
3 78.6% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 21.4% bengali (harappa) @ 3.45
4 80.1% thai (xing) + 19.9% nepalese-c (xing) @ 3.46
5 81% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19% rajasthani (harappa) @ 3.57
6 80.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.8% bihari-muslim (harappa) @ 3.61
7 81.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.9% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 3.62
8 81.4% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.6% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 3.63
9 80.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.1% kerala-christian (harappa) @ 3.66
10 80.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.1% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 3.68
11 81.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.9% gujarati (harappa) @ 3.71
12 64% thai (xing) + 36% khasi (chaubey) @ 3.72
13 80.7% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.3% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 3.75
14 80.6% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.4% kerala-muslim (harappa) @ 3.76
15 81.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.8% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 3.78
16 81.3% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.7% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 3.78
17 80.8% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.2% up (harappa) @ 3.79
18 81.3% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.7% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 3.79
19 81.6% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.4% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 3.79
20 81.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 18.9% meghawal (reich) @ 3.81


2. This kit is from Hat Yai, Songkhla Province in Southern Thailand. This is probably one of the most Western-shifted Thai results I saw on Gedmatch. 20% S Indian, 9% Baloch, 1.5% NE Euro.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE-Asian 49.92
2 S-Indian 20.21
3 NE-Asian 14.81
4 Baloch 9.12
5 NE-Euro 1.53
6 Siberian 1.47
7 Papuan 1.24
8 E-African 0.92
9 American 0.79

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 thai (xing) 13.77
2 khmer-cambodian (xing) 16.13
3 cambodian (hgdp) 23.57
4 khasi (chaubey) 24.14
5 singapore-malay (sgvp) 25.6
6 lahu (hgdp) 28.23
7 kinh (1000genomes) 28.53
8 vietnamese (xing) 30.08
9 dai-chinese (1000genomes) 30.61
10 dai (hgdp) 30.94
11 burmanese (chaubey) 34.21
12 garo (chaubey) 37.35
13 iban (xing) 41.5
14 great-andamanese (reich) 42.03
15 onge (reich) 42.92
16 samoan (xing) 43.53
17 bonda (chaubey) 45.57
18 juang (chaubey) 45.62
19 tongan (xing) 47.07
20 miao (hgdp) 49.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.4% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.6% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 2.12
2 80.3% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.7% gujarati-a (hapmap) @ 2.17
3 79.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.9% gujarati (harappa) @ 2.17
4 80.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.8% gujarati-a (1000genomes) @ 2.2
5 79.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.8% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 2.3
6 80.4% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 19.6% gujarati-patel (harappa) @ 2.31
7 79.3% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.7% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.38
8 79.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.8% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 2.43
9 79.3% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.7% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.45
10 79.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.8% tn-brahmin (xing) @ 2.45
11 79.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.9% meghawal (reich) @ 2.45
12 79.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.9% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.46
13 79% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 21% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 2.51
14 79.2% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.8% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 2.56
15 78.7% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 21.3% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.58
16 78.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 21.1% maharashtrian (harappa) @ 2.58
17 79.1% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.9% rajasthani (harappa) @ 2.65
18 79.7% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.3% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 2.73
19 78.9% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 21.1% vaish (reich) @ 2.76
20 79.4% khmer-cambodian (xing) + 20.6% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.84

[Maguzanci]

My guess is Burmese AASI coming from Onge while Thai from the subcontinent

Why do you think Burmese AASI is from the Onge? Is it because their AASI/West Eurasian ratio is not proportional?

[Maguzanci]

yeah that seems to be the case. AASI and west eurasian are roughly similar among thais, with some having more west eurasian/aasi ratio. i guess they had influence from the south indian midcastes to northern brahmins.

You mean Thais could have gene flow from South Indian midcastes to Northern Brahmins? How about the Burmese? I read from Anthrogenica they have more North Indian ancestry than Thais and Cambodians whose South Asian admixture is mostly South Indian-related: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16915-Gene-Flow-Between-Southern-and-South-eastern-Asia&p=563831&viewfull=1#post563831

I also heard that people from Myanmar have a substantial Bengali-like affinity that other SE Asians don't have: https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/06/19/south-asian-ancestry-in-southeast-asians/?fbclid=IwAR0ZH7q5vAufNoNPvTByRHc7YYUKV3XmhzvGSlTy 0tzyHaFgaZOPV3ErUHQ

[Thambi]

You mean Thais could have gene flow from South Indian midcastes to Northern Brahmins? How about the Burmese? I read from Anthrogenica they have more North Indian ancestry than Thais and Cambodians whose South Asian admixture is mostly South Indian-related: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16915-Gene-Flow-Between-Southern-and-South-eastern-Asia&p=563831&viewfull=1#post563831

I also heard that people from Myanmar have a substantial Bengali-like affinity that other SE Asians don't have: https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/06/19/south-asian-ancestry-in-southeast-asians/?fbclid=IwAR0ZH7q5vAufNoNPvTByRHc7YYUKV3XmhzvGSlTy 0tzyHaFgaZOPV3ErUHQ

burmese on g25 seem way more onge shifted but on gedmatch, given the AASI/baloch ratio, it seems like they had southern or northern lower to mid caste like mix, but its hard to tell. razib is quite knowledgeable so him saying bengali makes sense as well. given the low euro/caucasian among burmese, im leaning ore towards northern lower castes or southern midcastes.

[Maguzanci]

burmese on g25 seem way more onge shifted but on gedmatch, given the AASI/baloch ratio, it seems like they had southern or northern lower to mid caste like mix, but its hard to tell. razib is quite knowledgeable so him saying bengali makes sense as well. given the low euro/caucasian among burmese, im leaning ore towards northern lower castes or southern midcastes.

Really? Thats interesting. Could it be due to close proximity of andaman islands to burma? Can you posted some runs showing the onge affinity of the Burmese compared to other se asians?

so something northern lower caste or southern midcaste for the burmese? How about other se asians?

Btw i wonder if ganeshdsouza will reply by posting various 23andme results of se asians to show that filipinos have same amount of south Asian as other se asians. Lol he doesn't seem to know how to utilize and interpret gedmatch or G25.

[Maguzanci]

burmese on g25 seem way more onge shifted but on gedmatch, given the AASI/baloch ratio, it seems like they had southern or northern lower to mid caste like mix, but its hard to tell. razib is quite knowledgeable so him saying bengali makes sense as well. given the low euro/caucasian among burmese, im leaning ore towards northern lower castes or southern midcastes.

Btw no offense to any Filipinos, but their results are pretty boring and dull lol. They are like 90%+ Mongoloid (Austronesian) with minor Negrito or Papuan with very little like 1-5% Euro (and there seems to be Filos who score 1-3% Euro than those who are 4-6% Euro). A few seem to be even 100% East Eurasian genetically. They seem to have very little if any actual South Asian admix. Filipinos don't have that impressive AASI and West Eurasian that most SE Asians have. Only a small minority of them have more than 5% West Eurasian. Those who are more than 10% Caucasoid seems rare for Pinoys.

[tipirneni]

yeah that seems to be the case. AASI and west eurasian are roughly similar among thais, with some having more west eurasian/aasi ratio. i guess they had influence from the south indian midcastes to northern brahmins.

I have a Burmese match on 23andme

[El_Abominacion]

Burmese

[Seya]

some Burmese people look almost fully indian and i'm not talking about Rohingyas

[Maguzanci]

Burmese

I would say even Thais, Cambodians, Malays and a lot of Western Indonesians from Sumatra, Java, Bali have more Caucasoid admixture than Filipinos. In fact, I would say Pinoys have one of the lowest Caucasoid admixture in SE Asia on average outside of Vietnamese and Laotians. Most Pinos are like only 1-5% Euro based on gedmatch results, but I have seen more who are around 1-3% than those who score 4-5%. Philipinos who have more than 5% West Eurasian seems to be in the atypical range. And Pinoys who have 10% Caucasoid or more seems to be pretty rare or in a small minority.

No offense to Filipinos, but I find most of their DNA results to be very dull and boring due to their very little West Eurasian admix. In fact, I think their DNA results are the most boring to see among SE Asians after the Vietnamese and Laotians (they also very little Caucasoid). Most of them are like late 80 to 90%+ Mongoloid plus some Negrito or Papuan-like admixture (the minor South Asian they score is probably Negrito or AASI than actual Indian) and very little to no Caucasoid lol. Heck, I even see some Pinoy Gedmatch results who are literally 100% East Eurasian.

Its funny because most people who don't know anything about genetics will choose Filipinos due to Catholicism, Spanish sounding names and their connection to Spain and the New World rofl.

[Maguzanci]

some Burmese people look almost fully indian and i'm not talking about Rohingyas

Can you post some examples of these Burmese that you saw? I have seen a lot of Burmese but I never seen one who look almost fully Indian.

Are they ethnic Rakhine or Bamar?

[Seya]

Can you post some examples of these Burmese that you saw? I have seen a lot of Burmese but I never seen one who look almost fully Indian.

Are they ethnic Rakhine or Bamar?

There ones I’m talking about were from Kayin state

[Maguzanci]

There ones I’m talking about were from Kayin state

Did you know them personally and where did you meet them? Are they ethnic Kayin?

[Seya]

Did you know them personally and where did you meet them? Are they ethnic Kayin?

i know them personally. karens, yes

[Maguzanci]

Burmese

I have seen a Burmese gedmatch result who score up to almost 20% West Eurasian when using nmonte or vahaduo thanks to the high South Asian admix she has. I also have seen Thai, Malaysian and Indonesian gedmatch results who are around 13-16% West Eurasian (mainly Iran N+Steppe) when using vahaduo. I think most Filipinos would be really jealous and envious and wish they have that much Spanish admixture lmao. :icon_lol::rotfl:

Btw I think GaneshDSouza will reply by posting various 23andme results of SE Asians to show that Filipinos have same amount of South Asian and Caucasoid as other SE Asians. The thing is the 23andme categories of SE Asians are very shitty and make them look almost 100% Mongoloid while minimizing any South Asian admixture they might have. For example I notice that 23andme really minimize the South Asian admixture of Thais, Cambodians, Indonesians to almost zero % when they actually have a lot of them when you look at their Gedmatch results or Global 25. Lol he doesn't know how to utilize and interpret or understand Gedmatch or Global 25.

[Maguzanci]

i know them personally. karens, yes

Do they live in Europe or somewhere else in the West?

Are they fully Karen or they have some other ancestry? Its strange because I also seen quite a lot of Karens in Thailand and most of them look almost completely Mongoloid.

Can you ask them to 23andme, AncestryDNA or Gedmatch tests?

[El_Abominacion]

I have seen a Burmese gedmatch result who score up to almost 20% West Eurasian when using nmonte or vahaduo thanks to the high South Asian admix she has. I also have seen Thai, Malaysian and Indonesian gedmatch results who are around 13-16% West Eurasian (mainly Iran N+Steppe) when using vahaduo. I think most Filipinos would be really jealous and envious and wish they have that much Spanish admixture lmao. :icon_lol::rotfl:

Btw I think GaneshDSouza will reply by posting various 23andme results of SE Asians to show that Filipinos have same amount of South Asian and Caucasoid as other SE Asians. The thing is the 23andme categories of SE Asians are very shitty and make them look almost 100% Mongoloid while minimizing any South Asian admixture they might have. For example I notice that 23andme really minimize the South Asian admixture of Thais, Cambodians, Indonesians to almost zero % when they actually have a lot of them when you look at their Gedmatch results or Global 25. Lol he doesn't know how to utilize and interpret or understand Gedmatch or Global 25.

I think it's pointless to try to argue with him at this point. He has his own weird fetish for Latinos/Spaniards and trying to relate them to the Philippines, he probably won't change his mind

[Maguzanci]

I think it's pointless to try to argue with him at this point. He has his own weird fetish for Latinos/Spaniards and trying to relate them to the Philippines, he probably won't change his mind

True. Its a fetish or extreme infatuation with Latin America or Spain. Just look at how much he love to post in the Latin American subforum. Or how he loves to post Filipinos who show ambiguous sort of Caucasoid or Latino-like features but have negligible to zero Caucasoid/European admix.

Do you think its ironic and paradoxical that Filipinos are actually one of the least Caucasoid admixed and most Mongoloid SE Asians (after the Viets and Laotians) but are the most Western in culture and mentality?

If you didn't know about genetics, would you have thought that Pinoys have a lot of Spanish blood and are the most Caucasoid SE Asians?

[Seya]

Do they live in Europe or somewhere else in the West?

Are they fully Karen or they have some other ancestry? Its strange because I also seen quite a lot of Karens in Thailand and most of them look almost completely Mongoloid.

Can you ask them to 23andme, AncestryDNA or Gedmatch tests?

no. they never left Myanmar. those people don't even know what Europe means. i doubt they will take a dna test. it's not common but there are some. they have caucasoid skull, thin, long nose. some have asian eyes still, ohers not really
something similar to this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/f8/0d/a1f80d9a28cd207132198d967e073f83.jpg

[Maguzanci]

no. they never left Myanmar. those people don't even know what Europe means. i doubt they will take a dna test. it's not common but there are some. they have caucasoid skull, thin, long nose. some have asian eyes still, thers not really
something similar to this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/f8/0d/a1f80d9a28cd207132198d967e073f83.jpg

Interesting. You used to work or travel in Myanmar before?

Woah if they look something similar to that, those Karens very likely have South Asian/Indian ancestry even if they didn't know about it.

[Trouble]

Karens lol

[1R0N M4N XL]

great thread

[Dirdepo]

Eurogenes K13

Distance: 378.2852% / 3.78285245
Target: Philipinnes
41.9 Dai
33.6 Miaozu
13.5 Spanish_Aragon
5.5 Moroccan_Jew
3.4 Sardinia
1.0 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.6 Portuguese
0.3 Sudanese
0.2 Karitiana

I don't have any Burmese sample to run comparisons

[XenophobicPrussian]

Burmese, no question. Significant South Asian admixture, while what, Filipinos have noise level Spanish admixture most likely. Burmese are darker, but Thais darker than both.

[Dirdepo]

Burmese, no question. Significant South Asian admixture, while what, Filipinos have noise level Spanish admixture most likely. Burmese are darker, but Thais darker than both.

1/4 + Spanish is more than noise level

1 East_Asian 65.12
2 North_Atlantic 7.55
3 South_Asian 7.01
4 West_Med 6.39
5 Siberian 4.87
6 East_Med 4.09
7 Oceanian 3.19
8 Baltic 1.08
9 Northeast_African 0.59
10 Sub-Saharan 0.11

[XenophobicPrussian]

1/4 + Spanish is more than noise level

1 East_Asian 65.12
2 North_Atlantic 7.55
3 South_Asian 7.01
4 West_Med 6.39
5 Siberian 4.87
6 East_Med 4.09
7 Oceanian 3.19
8 Baltic 1.08
9 Northeast_African 0.59
10 Sub-Saharan 0.11
Model:


Jarawa,-0.0219821,-0.2430289,-0.1324164,0.0986968,0.0323713,-0.0045841,-0.01012,0.0065044,0.0546974,0.0238044,0.0228054,0. 0027349,-0.0041532,0.0103562,-0.0108067,-0.0114441,0.0094529,-0.0019082,-0.0062221,0.0286778,-0.0046401,0.0111366,-0.0123402,0.0022668,0.0049844
Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314, 0.0016048
Atayal,0.0151764,-0.4443502,-0.0428661,-0.0685119,0.1350338,0.0605811,-0.0029506,-0.014102,-0.0227249,-0.0194182,0.0381612,0.0040466,-0.0030888,0.0030737,0.0136173,0.0078814,-0.0045199,0.0046736,0.0054749,-0.0160632,0.0034939,-0.0249506,-0.0007258,-0.0065872,-0.050122
Spanish_Andalucia,0.1081318,0.1460759,0.0357074,-0.003434,0.0452553,-0.0058567,-0.0019295,0.0026598,0.0247151,0.0311624,-0.0021538,0.0072724,-0.0132072,-0.0114083,0.0102433,-0.0024984,-0.0061762,-0.0011002,-0.0042604,-0.0021325,0.0029291,-0.0013016,-0.0019719,-0.0053334,0.0018844
Spanish_Barcelones,0.1192866,0.1490798,0.045707,0. 0046512,0.0459162,0.0033466,0.0032432,0.003646,0.0 208614,0.0296314,-0.0041572,0.0070438,-0.014331,-0.0092206,0.007763,-0.0004244,-0.006102,-0.0001016,0.0023632,-0.0035268,0.0035686,-4.96e-05,-0.0039932,-0.003639,0.0015326
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha,0.1155305,0.1480135,0.0 40352,-0.00323,0.0420845,-0.004811,-0.0017038,0.0017308,0.024645,0.0339415,-0.0021108,0.008692,-0.015275,-0.012386,0.010281,-0.0010605,-0.0060302,-0.00019,-0.0001257,-0.000688,0.005459,0.0014837,-0.0010477,-0.003886,-0.0010778
Ami,0.019236,-0.4500828,-0.047291,-0.0676685,0.1420265,0.0637265,-0.0055698,-0.0148841,-0.0225589,-0.0225791,0.0475472,0.0046758,-0.005545,-0.0019679,0.007234,0.0041103,-0.0033117,0.0049788,0.0085474,-0.0194093,0.0109056,-0.0281929,0.0025389,-0.0061091,-0.0541747
Bengali_Bangladesh,0.043578,-0.1108377,-0.1506329,0.1024836,-0.0583844,0.0614357,-0.003693,0.0096589,0.0426577,0.0289236,-0.0064956,-0.0013059,-0.0006159,0.0029099,-0.0047114,-0.0083151,0.0040046,0.001647,-0.0015803,0.003716,-0.0009091,0.002155,0.0026761,0.0046133,8.56e-05



Target: Igorot
Distance: 2.5194% / 0.02519386
94.8 Ami
5.2 Atayal

Target: Aeta
Distance: 4.1694% / 0.04169384
51.4 Ami
38.2 Jarawa
7.8 Papuan
2.6 Spanish_Andalucia

Target: Agta
Distance: 5.2320% / 0.05232028
51.0 Ami
37.6 Jarawa
9.0 Papuan
2.4 Spanish_Andalucia

I realize these aren't all the Filipino ethnic groups, and they're the rather more rural ones, but do you have your supposed Filipino average(also where's it from, because I can't find any on Davidski's spreadsheets) on G25?

[Dirdepo]

Model:




I realize these aren't all the Filipino ethnic groups, and they're the rather more rural ones, but do you have your supposed Filipino average(also where's it from, because I can't find any on Davidski's spreadsheets) on G25?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238194-Eurogenes-K13-(-Philippines)

[El_Abominacion]

True. Its a fetish or extreme infatuation with Latin America or Spain. Just look at how much he love to post in the Latin American subforum. Or how he loves to post Filipinos who show ambiguous sort of Caucasoid or Latino-like features but have negligible to zero Caucasoid/European admix.

Do you think its ironic and paradoxical that Filipinos are actually one of the least Caucasoid admixed and most Mongoloid SE Asians (after the Viets and Laotians) but are the most Western in culture and mentality?

If you didn't know about genetics, would you have thought that Pinoys have a lot of Spanish blood and are the most Caucasoid SE Asians?

It is ironic and no without genetic testing I never would've guessed they have Spanish ancestry. They look like Southeast Asians and I find it pretty stupid when I see Filipinos trying to pass themselves off as Polynesians, Latinos, Mestizos etc

[XenophobicPrussian]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238194-Eurogenes-K13-(-Philippines)
That doesn't answer my question. Like, at all.

Also, you used one Filipino person's GEDMatch kit to make an argument for the Filipino average?

Sir, are you retarded?

[Seya]

Burmese, no question. Significant South Asian admixture, while what, Filipinos have noise level Spanish admixture most likely. Burmese are darker, but Thais darker than both.

burmese are also dark
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/survivors-of-the-cyclone-nargis-stand-under-the-rain-in-bogalay-on-picture-id81077940?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/burmese-people-wait-for-food-at-a-refugee-camp-on-may-10-in-shwe-pyi-picture-id81045521?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/children-wait-for-relief-food-to-be-distributed-to-survivors-of-the-picture-id81058225?s=2048x2048

and then you also have people who look like this who are also live in Myanmar
https://cache.pakistantoday.com.pk/ra-37.jpg
https://m.dw.com/image/40279627_101.jpg

[Dirdepo]

That doesn't answer my question. Like, at all.

Also, you used one Filipino person's GEDMatch kit to make an argument for the Filipino average?

Sir, are you retarded?

I showing you some Filipinos are descendants of Spanish with data from this website. An average is not necessary for what I already proved here

[Trouble]

Okay so I did a simple run using moderns on SE Asian pops. It might be a little simplistic but I tried to cover Austronesian, Negrito, South Chinese, Tibetan, and S. Asian ancestry. It's crude so the fits aren't too great but the only ones that are really off are for Indonesians. I think they need some Austro-Asiatic population but Im not sure which to use. Malays and Cambodians might require it too.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781264732547186740/unknown.png

Like I said the Burmese have more Onge like compared to S. Asian while the Thai are relatively less so.

[Trouble]

True. Its a fetish or extreme infatuation with Latin America or Spain. Just look at how much he love to post in the Latin American subforum. Or how he loves to post Filipinos who show ambiguous sort of Caucasoid or Latino-like features but have negligible to zero Caucasoid/European admix.

Do you think its ironic and paradoxical that Filipinos are actually one of the least Caucasoid admixed and most Mongoloid SE Asians (after the Viets and Laotians) but are the most Western in culture and mentality?

If you didn't know about genetics, would you have thought that Pinoys have a lot of Spanish blood and are the most Caucasoid SE Asians?

The thing is, if Pinoys are being mistaken as Latino it's often bc the person is a dumbarse who will mistake many other SE Asians as latino as well. However this is a tiny fraction of people because east asian features are so blatantly obvious that even dark SE Asians appear clearly OF ASIA.

[GaneshD'Souza]

The thing is, if Pinoys are being mistaken as Latino it's often bc the person is a dumbarse who will mistake many other SE Asians as latino as well. However this is a tiny fraction of people because east asian features are so blatantly obvious that even dark SE Asians appear clearly OF ASIA.

Regular Filipinos like the first guy in the video can be mistaken as Latino (I asked on the Latin American forum. Only one person said he couldn't pass in Latin America).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji5FqWDvMY

Of course, it's just a coincidence- Negrito + Taiwanese Aborigine can create mulatto or tri-racial looking people. Here's some example of other Filipinos with that look:

This guy has a regular look that you would see in poor neighborhoods in the Philippines. You won't see his look in the Filipino diaspora, but you see it a lot in the Philippines. While the girl has more of a middle-class Filipino look and wouldn't pass as Latina
https://i.ibb.co/cTKpfsN/15391096-1837934116491415-846679827972185661-n.jpg

Another look that would pass as tri-racial Latino
https://i.ibb.co/RTJXpL5/20190205-elections-senator-2726.jpg

My cousin. I've seen her 23andme and she's not even 1% European. But people on here have said she would pass in Panama or Costa Rica. These were people from those countries saying this.
https://i.ibb.co/Z1bjrkp/0-4per.png

0% European but could pass in many parts of Latin America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIYgq_uCxOU

Also 0% European

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7tyc5XPZQ

So Filipinos passing as Latinos is more of a coincidence, but it's not rare

[Maguzanci]

Okay so I did a simple run using moderns on SE Asian pops. It might be a little simplistic but I tried to cover Austronesian, Negrito, South Chinese, Tibetan, and S. Asian ancestry. It's crude so the fits aren't too great but the only ones that are really off are for Indonesians. I think they need some Austro-Asiatic population but Im not sure which to use. Malays and Cambodians might require it too.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781264732547186740/unknown.png

Like I said the Burmese have more Onge like compared to S. Asian while the Thai are relatively less so.

For Austroasiatic source, you can use Mlabri or Htin_Mal.

Do you think the Onge is hiding some West Eurasian of the Burmese?

[Maguzanci]

I showing you some Filipinos are descendants of Spanish with data from this website. An average is not necessary for what I already proved here

Still very atypical results. Most Philipinos don't have that much Caucasoid.

[Maguzanci]

Karens lol

Thats how they are literally called or another term is Kayin.

[Maguzanci]

It is ironic and no without genetic testing I never would've guessed they have Spanish ancestry. They look like Southeast Asians and I find it pretty stupid when I see Filipinos trying to pass themselves off as Polynesians, Latinos, Mestizos etc

Its ironic indeed and most Filipinos really believe in this legendary Spanish ancestor lol.


I agreed. I actually would think they are 100% Mongoloid as well or maybe some East Asian+some Negrito mix with no Euro if there is no genetic testing on them. Except a few of the middle and upper classes who are Hapas. And I think most of those Caucasoid-ish or Latino-ish looking Pinoys who are a small minority of the pop actually have high European admix.

I find it very stupid of how a lot of them try to distance themselves from other Asians and try to larp as Polynesian or Hispanic. They have a lot Off Pacific Islander Dilemma and Off Latino Dilemma its sad and pathetic rofl.

If Filipinos want to have a decent amount of Caucasoid like most other SE Asians, they must also have substantial amounts of South Asian/Indian which is something most them have very little of or even lack (the minor "South Asian" that Pinoys score in Gedmatch seem to be Negrito or some local AASI rather than actual Indian). Although I will admit that I have seen a few Pino gedmatch results that look like they have legit South Asian (but still very low compared to other SE Asian) including two Filipinas who score up to 11 and 13% S Indian on Harappa, but their results seem very atypical and outliers compared to the rest of Philippines. I will create a thread about it later.

[Trouble]

For Austroasiatic source, you can use Mlabri or Htin_Mal.

Do you think the Onge is hiding some West Eurasian of the Burmese?

I completely forgot about that! Thanks for reminding me.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781327303665778698/unknown.png

So it seems like Mlabri/Htin_Mal are highly Onge shifted and they soak up most of the Onge-like affinity of these groups. The only ones who get anything move than 2% Onge after using them are the Burmese, which is no surprise. On the bright side, we can clearly see the South Asian affinity of these groups with the Onge becoming largely invisible.

[Maguzanci]

Regular Filipinos like the first guy in the video can be mistaken as Latino (I asked on the Latin American forum. Only one person said he couldn't pass in Latin America).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji5FqWDvMY

Of course, it's just a coincidence- Negrito + Taiwanese Aborigine can create mulatto or tri-racial looking people. Here's some example of other Filipinos with that look:

This guy has a regular look that you would see in poor neighborhoods in the Philippines. You won't see his look in the Filipino diaspora, but you see it a lot in the Philippines. While the girl has more of a middle-class Filipino look and wouldn't pass as Latina
https://i.ibb.co/cTKpfsN/15391096-1837934116491415-846679827972185661-n.jpg

Another look that would pass as tri-racial Latino
https://i.ibb.co/RTJXpL5/20190205-elections-senator-2726.jpg

My cousin. I've seen her 23andme and she's not even 1% European. But people on here have said she would pass in Panama or Costa Rica. These were people from those countries saying this.
https://i.ibb.co/Z1bjrkp/0-4per.png

0% European but could pass in many parts of Latin America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIYgq_uCxOU

Also 0% European

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7tyc5XPZQ

So Filipinos passing as Latinos is more of a coincidence, but it's not rare

How does it feel to know that Filipinos have one of the lowest Caucasoid and are one of the most Mongoloid SE Asians (the only groups that are less Caucasoid than you are Vietnamese, Laotians, some tribal SE Asians and Eastern Indos/Timorese )? :rotfl::pound:

In fact Filipinos have one of the most boring and dull DNA results that I ever saw for SE Asians thanks to your almost none to literally zero Caucasoid/Euro rofl. :bored: :yawnee20::lol00002:

Burmese, Thais, Cambodians, Malays, a lot of Indonesians, all of them have higher Caucasoid than Pinoys do. Flips can only compete with Viets, Laotians, tribal ethnic minorities and Eastern Indos/Timorese in your almost lack of to even zero West Eurasian/Caucasoid.

Oh and don't use those 23andme to compare. Their SE Asian categories are absolute shit it absorbs the high South Asian that most SE Asians have (Pinoys have very little South Asian compared to their neighbors) make them look almost 100% Mongoloid when its far from the truth.

You can keep imagining about those legendary Spanish ancestors all you want, but that doesn't make you more Euro/Caucasoid.

[Maguzanci]

I completely forgot about that! Thanks for reminding me.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781327303665778698/unknown.png

So it seems like Mlabri/Htin_Mal are highly Onge shifted and they soak up most of the Onge-like affinity of these groups. The only ones who get anything move than 2% Onge after using them are the Burmese, which is no surprise. On the bright side, we can clearly see the South Asian affinity of these groups with the Onge becoming largely invisible.

Yep that looks better. Can you also add the Vizayan, Igorot (they are two other Philippine samples) and Kinh_Vietnam into your target populations?

Also can you try including any North Indian as a source besides the Brahmin Tamil Nadu?

[Trouble]

Yep that looks better. Can you also add the Vizayan, Igorot (they are two other Philippine samples) and Kinh_Vietnam into your target populations?

Also can you try including any North Indian as a source besides the Brahmin Tamil Nadu?

I could but I don't really think any North Indians besides Bengalis would have had an impact on SE Asia. SE Asia seems heavily influenced by Tamil Brahmin culture and so they are naturally the most likely proxy.

Yes I will do that.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781337431734484992/unknown.png?width=664&height=475

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781337513943367700/unknown.png?width=690&height=475

Surprisingly, it turned out well. So we see that the ancestry of Thais is Tamil, whereas for Burmese it's Bengali. Fits with what we know historically. Thanks for the help!

[Maguzanci]

I could but I don't really think any North Indians besides Bengalis would have had an impact on SE Asia. SE Asia seems heavily influenced by Tamil Brahmin culture and so they are naturally the most likely proxy.

Yes I will do that.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781337431734484992/unknown.png?width=664&height=475

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781337513943367700/unknown.png?width=690&height=475

Surprisingly, it turned out well. So we see that the ancestry of Thais is Tamil, whereas for Burmese it's Bengali. Fits with what we know historically. Thanks for the help!

Its interesting that the Burmese now all got their South Asian input from the Bengali while other seem to prefer Tamil. Also Im surprised that Cambodians mainly received their gene flow from Bengalis rather than Tamils. I thought they would score like the Thai who are mostly Tamil-derived.

Can you add some MENA or European source like Bedouin, Iberian or Iranian? Want to see if the Malays, Indos and Flips would score some of these.

[Trouble]

Its interesting that the Burmese now all got their South Asian input from the Bengali while other seem to prefer Tamil. Also Im surprised that Cambodians mainly received their gene flow from Bengalis rather than Tamils. I thought they would score like the Thai who are mostly Tamil-derived.

Can you add some MENA or European source like Bedouin, Iberian or Iranian? Want to see if the Malays, Indos and Flips would score some of these.

Sure. IDK whats up with Cambos. Maybe take these with a grain of salt.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781342363821408276/unknown.png?width=773&height=475

Small enough in most cases to just be noise. Also its overfitting and ruined the results.

[Maguzanci]

Sure. IDK whats up with Cambos. Maybe take these with a grain of salt.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/760588121694928918/781342363821408276/unknown.png?width=773&height=475

Small enough in most cases to just be noise. Also its overfitting and ruined the results.

Yup but now only the Malays prefer Tamil while others including Thai all receive their gene flow mainly from Bengalis. But yeah you are right maybe have to take it with grain of salt.

Its strange though that now the Javanese and Balinese Indonesians now got their minor Caucasoid from Bedouin and not from South Asians.
Do you think its strange that the Vizayan Flip sample is getting Iranian and Bedouin but no Spanish?

Btw why is overfitting bad?

[Kaazi]

no. they never left Myanmar. those people don't even know what Europe means. i doubt they will take a dna test. it's not common but there are some. they have caucasoid skull, thin, long nose. some have asian eyes still, ohers not really
something similar to this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/f8/0d/a1f80d9a28cd207132198d967e073f83.jpg

Omg that guy's a Burmese. Never seen one like him. He looks full South Asian with lil Mongoloid. His skull is also very South Asian.

[Thambi]

Omg that guy's a Burmese. Never seen one like him. He looks full South Asian with lil Mongoloid. His skull is also very South Asian.

no thats an indian dude. she's saying some burmese that she saw looked like him.

[Trouble]

Yup but now only the Malays prefer Tamil while others including Thai all receive their gene flow mainly from Bengalis. But yeah you are right maybe have to take it with grain of salt.

Its strange though that now the Javanese and Balinese Indonesians now got their minor Caucasoid from Bedouin and not from South Asians.
Do you think its strange that the Vizayan Flip sample is getting Iranian and Bedouin but no Spanish?

Btw why is overfitting bad?

The results are fake.

[Maguzanci]

no thats an indian dude. she's saying some burmese that she saw looked like him.

Btw this is pretty intriguing but Burmese are genetically closer to NE Indians, Nepalis and most NE Asians than to SE Asians with the exception of Thais (im not sure if this is due to heavy Chinese mix in Thai samples or some shared recent ancestry with the Burmese), Cambodians (seem to be Chinese admixture in one of the samples that causes this), Vietnamese. Look at how far the Burmese are from Austronesians like Malay, Indonesians and Flippinos for example.

And its a bit strange that the Malays are a lot closer the Burmese than other Austronesians are. Chinese admix in some Malay samples as well?

Distance to: Burmese
0.02182748 Tripuri
0.02498988 Jamatia
0.07142807 Magar
0.07430143 Gurung
0.07433122 Tamang
0.07595931 Thai
0.09489489 Naxi
0.09775700 Tibetan_Xinlong
0.09872883 Sherpa
0.10371016 Cambodian
0.11080127 Kinh_Vietnam
0.11385934 Tibetan_Chamdo
0.11556839 Kusunda
0.11694541 Han_Shanxi
0.11917641 Han_Fujian
0.12009631 Han_Hubei
0.12145800 Dai
0.12498928 Mongola
0.12896183 Malay
0.13960043 Korean
0.14000860 Tharu
0.14688577 Japanese
0.15428162 Vizayan
0.15642756 Indonesian_Bali
0.16002150 Indonesian_Java
0.16632149 Aeta
0.17022379 Luzon
0.17217595 Newar
0.17515597 Atayal
0.19161815 Murut (a tribal Austronesian group from Borneo)
0.20109574 Igorot
0.22347638 Onge
0.23029052 Bonda
0.33849483 Bengali_Bangladesh

So I decided to use the individual samples for Thais, Cambodians, Malays instead to see whether the distance of them to Burmese will change.

Distance to: Burmese
0.02182748 Tripuri
0.02498988 Jamatia
0.07142807 Magar
0.07251817 Thai:CHI007
0.07376709 Thai:DCH002
0.07430143 Gurung
0.07433122 Tamang
0.07719098 Thai:DCH010
0.07798414 Thai:DCH011
0.08098479 Thai:DCH007
0.08280599 Thai:DCH012
0.08371434 Thai:DCH009
0.08635169 Thai:DCH008
0.09303417 Thai:DCH006
0.09404083 Cambodian:HGDP00712
0.09489489 Naxi
0.09775700 Tibetan_Xinlong
0.09872883 Sherpa
0.10152962 Malay:SGVP00063
0.11080127 Kinh_Vietnam
0.11385934 Tibetan_Chamdo
0.11556839 Kusunda
0.11694541 Han_Shanxi
0.11917641 Han_Fujian
0.11954930 Thai:CHI034
0.12009631 Han_Hubei
0.12145800 Dai
0.12188185 Malay:SGVP00120
0.12420320 Cambodian:HGDP00713
0.12498928 Mongola
0.13500444 Cambodian:HGDP00711
0.13960043 Korean
0.14000860 Tharu
0.14183761 Malay:SGVP00089
0.14625281 Malay:SGVP00091
0.14688577 Japanese
0.15428162 Vizayan
0.15642756 Indonesian_Bali
0.16002150 Indonesian_Java
0.16136315 Malay:SGVP00026
0.16632149 Aeta
0.17022379 Luzon
0.17217595 Newar
0.17515597 Atayal
0.19161815 Murut
0.20109574 Igorot
0.22347638 Onge
0.23029052 Bonda
0.33849483 Bengali_Bangladesh


Thais are still closer to Burmese even compared to some Nepalis or NE Asians. Maybe some shared ancestry between Burmese and Thais?

[Maguzanci]

The results are fake.

Lol. If that's the case how did David ever uploaded or he is just ignorant in Asian genetics?

I will try to run some individual samples of these groups to see if they still receive Bedouin over South Asian.

[Maguzanci]

The results are fake.

So I decided to run the individual Balinese and Javanese Indonesian samples to see if anything changes. Here they are:

https://i.imgur.com/7hwFlPT.png

https://i.imgur.com/x9lC8gN.png

And here is the Vizayan and Luzon Flip individuals (unfortunately, there is only one sample for each Philippine group):

Distance: 1.9429% / 0.01942887
Target: Vizayan:GS000019970
62.9 Ami
30.5 Aeta
5.1 Mlabri
0.8 Iranian_Fars
0.7 BedouinB

Distance: 1.8033% / 0.01803322
Target: Luzon:GS000019968
86.4 Ami
8.5 Aeta
2.6 Onge
2.0 Mlabri
0.5 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu

I think the Mlabri is absorbing some West Eurasian admix of the Indonesian and Vizayan samples.

[GaneshD'Souza]

How does it feel to know that Filipinos have one of the lowest Caucasoid and are one of the most Mongoloid SE Asians (the only groups that are less Caucasoid than you are Vietnamese, Laotians, some tribal SE Asians and Eastern Indos/Timorese )? :rotfl::pound:

In fact Filipinos have one of the most boring and dull DNA results that I ever saw for SE Asians thanks to your almost none to literally zero Caucasoid/Euro rofl. :bored: :yawnee20::lol00002:

Burmese, Thais, Cambodians, Malays, a lot of Indonesians, all of them have higher Caucasoid than Pinoys do. Flips can only compete with Viets, Laotians, tribal ethnic minorities and Eastern Indos/Timorese in your almost lack of to even zero West Eurasian/Caucasoid.

Oh and don't use those 23andme to compare. Their SE Asian categories are absolute shit it absorbs the high South Asian that most SE Asians have (Pinoys have very little South Asian compared to their neighbors) make them look almost 100% Mongoloid when its far from the truth.

You can keep imagining about those legendary Spanish ancestors all you want, but that doesn't make you more Euro/Caucasoid.

Who cares about ancient ancestry. We're not living in the BC anymore. 23andme picks up more recent ancestry, and Filipinos are the most recently mixed, which is why our 23andme results are so diverse compared to other Asians. I've never seen Burmese 23andme results. They may be more diverse. But compare to Vietnam, Indonesians, Cambodians, and Thais, Filipinos have the most diverse 23andme results. But it's usually just small amounts o f ancestry because the Philippines was more diverse in the 1800s than it is now.

And how many Filipinos have they even tested? And what regions? Filipinos with the most Indian/Arab will be from the Southern Philippines- the Moros. I don't even know if they test Moros. Moros are extremely rare in the diaspora population. You see Moros all over the place in the Philippines, but I've actually never met a Moro outside of the Philippines in my life.

[Maguzanci]

Who cares about ancient ancestry. We're not living in the BC anymore. 23andme picks up more recent ancestry, and Filipinos are the most recently mixed, which is why our 23andme results are so diverse compared to other Asians. I've never seen Burmese 23andme results. They may be more diverse. But compare to Vietnam, Indonesians, Cambodians, and Thais, Filipinos have the most diverse 23andme results. But it's usually just small amounts o f ancestry because the Philippines was more diverse in the 1800s than it is now.

And how many Filipinos have they even tested? And what regions? Filipinos with the most Indian/Arab will be from the Southern Philippines- the Moros. I don't even know if they test Moros. Moros are extremely rare in the diaspora population. You see Moros all over the place in the Philippines, but I've actually never met a Moro outside of the Philippines in my life.

Lol a lot of people seem to care including Latinos. Why do you think they all uploaded their 23andme results to Gedmatch and other DNA testing to learn more about their DNA? And no its exactly ancient ancestry. Even a lot of Latinos who are a newly created and mixed population, uploaded to their 23andme results to Gedmatch to get a better look at their DNA lmao.


Ok I will give you a benefit of doubt that they might not test all Pinoys or most regions. And that's doesn't change the fact that Flips have one of the lowest Caucasoid among SE Asians out there after Vietnamese, Laotians and some tribal groups. Still, most Philipinos on 23andme and other DNA tests have only 1-5% Cauacsoid, and there seems to be those who are 1-3% Euro than those who are 4-5% Euro. Heck, even those who are more than 5% Euro seems to be a minority and those who are up to 10% Caucasoid or more seems to be in the rare atypical range of Filipinos.

Having 0.5% Euro, 0.1% SSA and 0.1% Native American that a lot of Flips while other SE Asians don't have, doesn't make them the most diverse lol. Those amounts which are less than 1% like 0.3% Euro, 0.2% MENA, 0.4% Native means noise level which means the ancestry might not even be real and its something 23andme algorithm just do to fit the results as much they can. For those ancestry among Filipinos to be real, they must have at least 1% or more. So yeah those diverse results, could be noise if its less than 1%.

And I have seen two Moro results on Gedmatch (not on 23andme) and they are almost the same as other Pinoys. Their results might be different from other Pinos but that's it.

[GaneshD'Souza]

Lol a lot of people seem to care including Latinos. Why do you think they all uploaded their 23andme results to Gedmatch and other DNA testing to learn more about their DNA? And no its exactly ancient ancestry. Even a lot of Latinos who are a newly created and mixed population, uploaded to their 23andme results to Gedmatch to get a better look at their DNA lmao.

No they are not the most diverse. And that's doesn't change the fact that Flips have one of the lowest Caucasoid among SE Asians out there after Vietnamese, Laotians and some tribal groups.

Having 0.5% Euro, 0.1% SSA and 0.1% Native American that a lot of Flips while other SE Asians don't have, doesn't make them the most diverse lol. Those amounts which are less than 1% like 0.3% Euro, 0.2% MENA, 0.4% Native means noise level which means the ancestry might not even be real and its something 23andme algorithm just do to fit the results as much they can. For those ancestry among Filipinos to be real, they must have at least 1% or more. So yeah those diverse results, could be noise if its less than 1%.

And I have seen two Moro results and they are almost the same as other Pinoys but its very rare out there.

You forgot about the Central/South Asian. I've only seen a few Filipinos who don't have it on 23andme. I think it's more recent admixture. I only have a little South Asian on 23andme but I have full Indian relatives on 23andme who match me on my South Asian segments. They're 4th cousins. So our Indian admixture is recent, and that's why it shows up on 23andme. Cambodians also have a good amount, Thais usually too. Vietnamese, no. Indonesians, surprisingly not much. I think Achenese would have a lot of Indian and Arab, but the majority of the population are Sundanese and Javanese

[Maguzanci]

You forgot about the Central/South Asian. I've only seen a few Filipinos who don't have it on 23andme. I think it's more recent admixture. I only have a little South Asian on 23andme but I have full Indian relatives on 23andme who match me on my South Asian segments. They're 4th cousins. So our Indian admixture is recent, and that's why it shows up on 23andme. Cambodians also have a good amount, Thais usually too. Vietnamese, no. Indonesians, surprisingly not much. I think Achenese would have a lot of Indian and Arab, but the majority of the population are Sundanese and Javanese

You are wrong because Viets also do score minor South Asian. And Indonesians including Javanese, Sundanese do have a good amount South Asian. Even if Indos don't have as much, its still more than most Philipinos. You should stop treating 23andme as a gospel. Pinoys score similar amounts of South Asian as Viets and Laotians or maybe a bit more.

Here is the PuntDNAL K13 calculator spreadsheet that show much the average SE Asian score in their DNA result. Its from Gedmatch, its much more reliable and accurate in telling how much South Asian you have than 23andme. Look at how very little South Asian Pinoys have from around 0-6%, even Viets have a bit more than Filipinos at 7%. While look at other SE Asians, it ranges from 11 to almost 17%.

https://i.imgur.com/6IQDuBF.png

Here is the MDLP K16 Modern calculator spreadsheet that show how much the average SE Asian ethnicity score. Once again the Filipinos are scoring the lowest Indian among the SE Asians along with the three Vietnamese samples (from North, Central and South part of Vietnam). There are no Malays or other Indonesians here, but look at how all the other SE Asians all score form 13-17% Indian.

https://i.imgur.com/5cPFIzE.png

How will you refute this? The low South Asian that Flips in these calcs definitely cannot be explained by the recent South Asian admixture. Look at how little Caucasoid Pinoys have compared to other SE Asians.

Here are individual SE Asian results using PuntDNAL K13:

Filipina

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 60.81
2 NE_Asia 26.77
3 South_Asia 5.91
4 Oceania 4.06
5 SW_Europe 0.77
6 South_Africa 0.69
7 NE_Europe 0.51
8 SW_Asia 0.47

Indonesian

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 48.97
2 NE_Asia 23.23
3 South_Asia 16.39
4 West_Asia 3.56
5 NE_Europe 2.6
6 Oceania 2.53
7 SW_Asia 0.88
8 Americas 0.74
9 South_Africa 0.58
10 East_Africa 0.26
11 SW_Europe 0.25
12 West_Africa 0.01

Malay

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 41.77
2 NE_Asia 23.6
3 South_Asia 18.08
4 Oceania 5.17
5 West_Asia 5.13
6 NE_Europe 2.19
7 SW_Europe 1.51
8 Americas 0.86
9 Siberia 0.84
10 West_Africa 0.48
11 East_Africa 0.35
12 South_Africa 0.01

Cambodian

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 39.37
2 NE_Asia 33.72
3 South_Asia 16.54
4 West_Asia 3.43
5 Oceania 2.72
6 NE_Europe 1.34
7 West_Africa 1.27
8 SW_Europe 0.87
9 SW_Asia 0.63
10 South_Africa 0.11

Thai

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 33.97
2 NE_Asia 33.21
3 South_Asia 18.21
4 West_Asia 4.77
5 Oceania 2.55
6 NE_Europe 2.37
7 SW_Asia 1.86
8 East_Africa 1.14
9 Americas 0.92
10 Siberia 0.72
11 West_Africa 0.27

Burmese:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Asia 45.98
2 SE_Asia 19.89
3 South_Asia 16.88
4 West_Asia 7.63
5 Siberia 2.85
6 SW_Europe 2.65
7 Oceania 2.22
8 SW_Asia 0.91
9 Americas 0.83
10 East_Africa 0.1
11 South_Africa 0.05
12 NE_Europe 0.02

Vietnamese

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Asia 55.03
2 SE_Asia 35.49
3 South_Asia 4.88
4 Americas 1.19
5 Siberia 0.95
6 SW_Asia 0.94
7 West_Asia 0.59
8 Oceania 0.53
9 West_Africa 0.4

The Filipina have the second lowest South Asian after the Vietnamese while the others all have at least 16% South Asian.

Some more Philipinos: very little South Asian

Pinoy 2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 56.84
2 NE_Asia 30.01
3 South_Asia 4.88
4 Oceania 3.44
5 NE_Europe 2.62
6 Siberia 1.34
7 East_Africa 0.65
8 SW_Europe 0.12
9 SW_Asia 0.09

Pinoy 3

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 58.28
2 NE_Asia 29.91
3 South_Asia 4
4 Oceania 2.8
5 Americas 1.4
6 SW_Asia 1.31
7 NE_Europe 1.14
8 South_Africa 0.65
9 East_Africa 0.5

Indonesian 2:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 46.44
2 NE_Asia 21.93
3 South_Asia 19.01
4 West_Asia 4.82
5 Oceania 4.29
6 NE_Europe 2.2
7 SW_Asia 0.68
8 SW_Europe 0.36
9 South_Africa 0.28

Malay 2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 40.67
2 NE_Asia 28.66
3 South_Asia 17.02
4 Oceania 3.73
5 SW_Europe 2.74
6 West_Asia 2.65
7 NE_Europe 1.7
8 SW_Asia 1.1
9 South_Africa 0.86
10 East_Africa 0.51
11 Americas 0.35

Cambodian 2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 38.86
2 NE_Asia 33.17
3 South_Asia 15.98
4 West_Asia 3.72
5 Oceania 3.2
6 SW_Europe 2.73
7 East_Africa 0.84
8 NE_Europe 0.76
9 Americas 0.51
10 SW_Asia 0.23

Thai 2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SE_Asia 32.24
2 NE_Asia 29.89
3 South_Asia 20.48
4 West_Asia 4.53
5 Oceania 2.89
6 SW_Europe 2.82
7 SW_Asia 2.76
8 West_Africa 2.5
9 Siberia 1.22
10 South_Africa 0.46
11 Americas 0.2
12 NE_Europe 0.01

Burmese 2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Asia 39.68
2 South_Asia 19.53
3 SE_Asia 19.06
4 Siberia 7.27
5 West_Asia 5.56
6 NE_Europe 4.11
7 Oceania 2.68
8 South_Africa 1.43
9 SW_Asia 0.36
10 Americas 0.31

Vietnamese 2

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_Asia 52.31
2 SE_Asia 39.63
3 South_Asia 4.54
4 West_Africa 1
5 Oceania 0.66
6 NE_Europe 0.63
7 West_Asia 0.53
8 East_Africa 0.36
9 SW_Europe 0.33
10 South_Africa 0.01

Look at how the Flips have similar amounts of South Asian as the Viets. I can post countless results of Pinos more and none would score 10% or more except some very atypical genetic outliers while other SE Asians can easily have at least 15% South Asian. Many Indonesians do have lower South Asian at like 10% but it still higher than most Pinoys.

Furthermore, look at how very little Caucasoid the Filipino results score compared to other SE Asians. I can post loads of SE Asians who score much more Caucasoid than most Flips.

[Maguzanci]

no thats an indian dude. she's saying some burmese that she saw looked like him.

Do you want to have the kits of three Thai individuals who have higher than 14% SI?

[Thambi]

Do you want to have the kits of three Thai individuals who have higher than 14% SI?

yes please. that'd be great.

[Maguzanci]

yes please. that'd be great.

I will give it to you in reputation comments because my PM is full.

Btw GaneshDSouza cannot refute my reply to him regarding the usage of Gedmatch instead of 23andme lol.

[KuakoVoice]

You forgot about the Central/South Asian. I've only seen a few Filipinos who don't have it on 23andme. I think it's more recent admixture. I only have a little South Asian on 23andme but I have full Indian relatives on 23andme who match me on my South Asian segments. They're 4th cousins. So our Indian admixture is recent, and that's why it shows up on 23andme. Cambodians also have a good amount, Thais usually too. Vietnamese, no. Indonesians, surprisingly not much. I think Achenese would have a lot of Indian and Arab, but the majority of the population are Sundanese and Javanese

Actually the Javanese population share of Indonesia is probably decreasing rather than increasing,because of more inter tribal and inter ethnic migrations of them,Government enforced transmigrations,and most of the Population control stuff is centered for them.I think last time I checked they were more like 50 percent of the population right now.

Its funny to me that Ancestry now has a Southern Phillipines and Northern Phillipines as seperate categories,yet Indonesian is one category and including everything from Sumatra to West Papua.There is a far huger difference between Sumatra to West Papua,than Luzon to Mindanao for instance.In fact East Timor itself is now placed under "Melanesia" in Ancestry,yet their Melanesian neighbors in West Papua,Maluku,and NTT are placed under "Indonesian".The funniest thing about that is almost all Eastern Indonesians even east of Sulawesi actually score very little "Indonesian" on Ancestry,so it's only a matter of time and a matter of more Wallaceans/West Papuans testing for us to have our own category or places under "Melanesia" with our Timorese and Papua New Guinean brothers.

[KuakoVoice]

Who cares about ancient ancestry. We're not living in the BC anymore. 23andme picks up more recent ancestry, and Filipinos are the most recently mixed, which is why our 23andme results are so diverse compared to other Asians. I've never seen Burmese 23andme results. They may be more diverse. But compare to Vietnam, Indonesians, Cambodians, and Thais, Filipinos have the most diverse 23andme results. But it's usually just small amounts o f ancestry because the Philippines was more diverse in the 1800s than it is now.

And how many Filipinos have they even tested? And what regions? Filipinos with the most Indian/Arab will be from the Southern Philippines- the Moros. I don't even know if they test Moros. Moros are extremely rare in the diaspora population. You see Moros all over the place in the Philippines, but I've actually never met a Moro outside of the Philippines in my life.

Lmao.You wished The Phillipines was more diverse than "Indonesians".Maluku alone is far more diverse than the entire Phillipines,so is East Timor and West Papua and Nusa Tengarra.Ignoring our existence for your convenience doesnt take our existence away.Just compare pictures of crowds of Timorese,Ambonese,or West Papuans then compare to Filipinos.And then multiply by the fact that we have 1/20 of your population and land area.Yet the most linguistically diverse region of Southeast Asia as well is...Eastern Indonesia! (West Papua,Maluku,and Nusa Tengarra).We have languages that arent even Austronesian and many not even classifiable at all.Even Filipinos Negritos still speak Austronesian languages.������

[KuakoVoice]

I think based on the DNA tests of Timorese and Moluccan I seen that we have the least South Asian in our region,but I cant agree with the least European.We were some of the first Christian converts outside of Europe and the Near East and the Capítol city of Maluku,Ambon was literally started by Western European traders.That along with the infamous Spice Trade being centered in Maluku would beg to differ.

[Maguzanci]

I think based on the DNA tests of Timorese and Moluccan I seen that we have the least South Asian in our region,but I cant agree with the least European.We were some of the first Christian converts outside of Europe and the Near East and the Capítol city of Maluku,Amnon was literalitat started by Western European traders.That along with the infamous Spice Trade being centered in Maluku would beg to differ.

From Gedmatch kits of Timorese and Moluccans that you have, do most have European and how much do they have on average?

Can you share some kits?

[Leto]

I believe there was a sizeable Eurasian minority in the Philippines but there was also some Anglo-Burmese biracials too. However mixed Filipino Americans and people like Enrique Iglesias are a lot more prominent.

[Incal]

Filipinas got better butt so I'll say Flips.

[Maguzanci]

Filipinas got better butt so I'll say Flips.

Have you seen butts of other SE Asians?

[Incal]

Have you seen butts of other SE Asians?

Sure. Even when there are exceptions, what I call "tropical" Asians (Thai, Flip, Viet, etc) got the best asses. New World Asians can grow butt too.

[KuakoVoice]

From Gedmatch kits of Timorese and Moluccans that you have, do most have European and how much do they have on average?

Can you share some kits?

We have relatively much fewer testers,but here is one Timorese girls Ancestry DNA and my Ambonese Moluccan moms AncestryDNA.Both have two Orang Timur (Moluccan/Timorese,etc) parents so the mixes are ancient and or Colonial.

Timorese:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?324061-Timor-Leste-DNA-results!-%26%23127481%3B-%26%23127473%3B

Ambonese Moluccan

https://ibb.co/6DSBm4j

[GaneshD'Souza]

I believe there was a sizeable Eurasian minority in the Philippines but there was also some Anglo-Burmese biracials too. However mixed Filipino Americans and people like Enrique Iglesias are a lot more prominent.

Enrique Iglesias isn't Filipino-American. He's Filipino-Spanish. His father is full Spanish while his mother is from a mestizo family in the Philippines. They've been in the Philippines for 300 years. I bet if he took a DNA test, he'd be 75-80% European, 20-25% Asian.

Enrique's mom. She looks very Asian compared to the rest of the family in the Philippines
https://i.ibb.co/1QnkTws/XIII-Prix-Di-logo-Ceremonia-de-entrega-26929489404-cropped.jpg

Here's his mom's sister Victoria Tuason.
https://i.ibb.co/3YST7Sx/52898389-10155851185877687-7662596980371095552-n.jpg
I saw her in a fancy restaurant in the Philippines and I heard her speaking Tagalog. The waiter told me she was Enrique's aunt. I would have thought she was a foreign white lady if she wasn't speaking Tagalog. But she lives in the Philippines. She married a Filipino man (because Tuason is a Filipino surname) but her daughter still looks white

This is her daughter (Enrique's cousin). The husband is also Filipino, but from another Spanish-descended family. They also live in the Philippines
https://i.ibb.co/M2HyBQG/12377591-10208530663161077-8166712416995269716-o.jpg

Here's another of Enrique's cousins in the Philippines
https://i.ibb.co/2hybtxX/16711817-10154460904589576-1330099422233022513-n.jpg

The husband in this family is an uncle of Enrique in the Philippines. The wife is from another Filipino family of Spanish-descent (Aboitiz)
https://i.ibb.co/jW96TpM/presss.jpg

The woman in this family is another cousin of his in the Philippines. The husband is from another Filipino family of Spanish-descent
https://i.ibb.co/ZG1vLLS/Clipboard02.jpg

So for whatever reason, Enrique's family that stayed in the Philippines is even whiter than him and his mother.

[Leto]

I know he's Spanish but I believe he has been residing in the U.S. for many years. His three children with Anna Kournikova are very white-looking, all the minor Negrito type of stuff must've been diluted in the their generation. Interestingly the kids have blonde hair (it's likely to get darker in a few years), so he must have the genes for light hair, even though Julio Iglesias has always been super tanned and dark.
https://cdn2.celebritax.com/sites/default/files/styles/watermark_100/public/1571155259-electrico-juego-enrique-iglesias-sus-hijos-nicholas-lucy-ha-conquistado-instagram.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/01/03/23/22969016-0-image-a-65_1578095107677.jpg
(The youngest daughter is not shown)

[aja675]

I find that people often doubt me that I'm mixed. Usually, it's because of either of these reasons (or even both of them): the first pic they saw of me showed me squinting, and first impressions of one's appearance normally last (I have bulging eyes in person, and I changed my avatar because it shows me in all my bulge-eyed glory. My bio was really awkward with my old avatar next to it because it made me look like a Buddhist monk), or they have heard stuff about Filipinos faking being mixed.

[CrinjaNinja]

Burmese

Burmese are more Caucasoid than Filipinos genetically. Filipinos only have large eyes and no epicanthic folds because of Australoid admixture, which is also present as a really small amount in Burmese, as well as one of its relatives, the Bangladeshis.

[KuakoVoice]

Burmese are more Caucasoid than Filipinos genetically. Filipinos only have large eyes and no epicanthic folds because of Australoid admixture, which is also present as a really small amount in Burmese, as well as one of its relatives, the Bangladeshis.

I think that's more an Indigineous Austronesian trait.Majority of Filipinos have little Australoid too,and the Aeta arent exactly fully Australoid either.

[GaneshD'Souza]

I think that's more an Indigineous Austronesian trait.Majority of Filipinos have little Australoid too,and the Aeta arent exactly fully Australoid either.

We really can't get an accurate idea of Australoid admixture because there has been very little testing of Filipinos in the Philippines. Some studies did include Negrito and Papuan admixture, but the numbers I saw for their sample were like 20 Tagalogs, 20 Visayans, and several other tribes all with small sample sizes. I think this chart also used that same study

https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/xx.png

And according to this, Visayans and Tagalogs have around half as much Australoid admixture as Polynesians. So if Polynesians are supposedly 25% Australoid, then Visayans and Tagalogs are 10-15%- which is still significant. Ayta, Agta, Ati, and Mamanwa are all Negrito tribes, some are more mixed than other. Iraya and Manobo are non-Negrito tribes. They resemble what poorer Filipinos look like whether tribal or not. So I suspect that a large percentage of the population is as Australoid-mixed as Manobos and Irayas. But we need more testing in the Philippines.

[Maguzanci]

I think that's more an Indigineous Austronesian trait.Majority of Filipinos have little Australoid too,and the Aeta arent exactly fully Australoid either.

I have run some Aeta and Agta results and I was surprised to found out that that more than half of their genes are Mongoloid Austronesian admixed.

[Maguzanci]

I find that people often doubt me that I'm mixed. Usually, it's because of either of these reasons (or even both of them): the first pic they saw of me showed me squinting, and first impressions of one's appearance normally last (I have bulging eyes in person, and I changed my avatar because it shows me in all my bulge-eyed glory. My bio was really awkward with my old avatar next to it because it made me look like a Buddhist monk), or they have heard stuff about Filipinos faking being mixed.

Have you ever done a DNA test yet like 23andme, AncestryDNA or Gedmatch? So you can settled this issue once and for all.

[aja675]

Have you ever done a DNA test yet like 23andme, AncestryDNA or Gedmatch? So you can settled this issue once and for all.

I haven't. It's not like any of these actually ship here.

[GaneshD'Souza]

I have run some Aeta and Agta results and I was surprised to found out that that more than half of their genes are Mongoloid Austronesian admixed.

What is surprising? Aetas and Agtas technically are Austronesians because they speak Austronesian languages. Aetas and Agtas have been living with Austronesians for 5,000 years. They can range in looks.

https://originalpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/aeta4yi1.jpg

Many look like regular Filipinos. Both Negrito Filipinos and Austronesian Filipinos are a mixture of both Negrito and Austronesian. It's just that Negritos are around 50/50, while Austronesian Filipinos are around 90/10

But the Aetas they are testing are probably the ones who are more mixed because they're easier to access. More remote Aetas will be more Negrito

[Maguzanci]

I believe Family Tree DNA/FTDNA is one of the few DNA companies that ships to the Phils. You can try that test first and then later upload your results to Gedmatch or 23andme (although Gedmatch is much more reliable in my opinion).

[Maguzanci]

I haven't. It's not like any of these actually ship here.

I believe Family Tree DNA/FTDNA is one of the few DNA companies that ships to the Phils. You can try that test first and then later upload your results to Gedmatch or 23andme (although Gedmatch is much more reliable in my opinion).

[Maguzanci]

We have relatively much fewer testers,but here is one Timorese girls Ancestry DNA and my Ambonese Moluccan moms AncestryDNA.Both have two Orang Timur (Moluccan/Timorese,etc) parents so the mixes are ancient and or Colonial.

Timorese:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?324061-Timor-Leste-DNA-results!-%26%23127481%3B-%26%23127473%3B

Ambonese Moluccan

https://ibb.co/6DSBm4j

Thanks. The Timorese DNA result seem to be almost Mestico level (around 39% White). Is that level of Euro common among Timorese?

The 1% Scotland in the Ambonese Moluccan is legit?

Where do you think in Eastern Indonesia these two individuals come from (I don't have their 23andme or AncestryDNA)?: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?338596-Eastern-Indonesian-Gedmatch-results&p=7035298#post7035298

[Maguzanci]

I think based on the DNA tests of Timorese and Moluccan I seen that we have the least South Asian in our region,but I cant agree with the least European.We were some of the first Christian converts outside of Europe and the Near East and the Capítol city of Maluku,Ambon was literally started by Western European traders.That along with the infamous Spice Trade being centered in Maluku would beg to differ.

Interesting. Well all the Moluccan samples that I have from Gedmatch seems to show around 1-5% Caucasoid admixture and they seem to be mostly European derived rather than Indian or MENA.

In fact, it seems like almost all the Indonesian gedmatch kits that I have from Sumatra to Maluku, have West Eurasian/Caucasoid admixture from around 1 to 16% with even some samples who have recent Arab ancestry and are thus around 25% Caucasoid. The average Indonesian seem to have 5.4% Caucasoid ancestry based on almost all the results that I run using PuntDNAL Global K13. Most of the Caucasoid ancestry seems to be South Asian-derived followed by MENA and European. The most West Eurasian/Caucasoid admixed island seem to be Sumatra followed by Java and the least Caucasoid admixed area seems to be those from interior Borneo or somewhere in Eastern Indonesia near Oceania.

Isn't interesting how Indian and Arab traders, settlers and later European colonists like the Dutch and Portuguese could have such a massive genetic impact on the whole archipelago, giving Caucasoid admixture to almost every Indonesian sample in Gedmatch?

[Sosa]

Burmese people have considerable caucasoid dna

[YangWenli]

Burmese, naturally. More Indid influence. Filipinos have more literal Negrito stuff. Not Caucasoid. Talking about average and most Filipinos of course.

[YangWenli]

Some Burmese look like slant eyed Bengalis tbh

Eh not really.