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View Full Version : What languages ​​have splitted farthest from its metropolis?



Tenma de Pegasus
12-10-2020, 01:36 AM
What of these peoples are the most liguistic aparted from its european version?

Andullero
12-10-2020, 01:45 AM
What peoples are the most liguistic aparted from its european version?

Haitian kreyol from Metropolitan French for certain. I have it from some French acquaintances that they have needed the service of translators while being there just like any other foreigner. Although to be certain this separation began during the colonial times, since the "French" that formed the basis of kreyol wasn't the one of the Ile de France region, but rather, the Norman dialect that used to be the norm in the coastal region of that province before the revolution happened. During the Republic, all regional languages came under sustained and unrelenting attack and homogeneization with the one of the capital city, so much that today their speakers are all in the single thousands in all the provinces of the current French country. Spain and Britain have been more generous with their ethnic provincial languages in comparison, quite frankly.

Tenma de Pegasus
12-10-2020, 01:46 AM
Pool added

Chaos One
12-10-2020, 02:37 AM
Some African variations of English and French can enter the list. Same for Indian English.

Tenma de Pegasus
12-10-2020, 02:50 AM
Some African variations of English and French can enter the list. Same for Indian English.

Its alrealdy so many, I did not added because the pool would stay even more mess. I almost added Quebec and Haiti French : /

Daven
12-10-2020, 02:51 AM
I don't understand these options in the poll.

NSXD60
12-10-2020, 03:20 AM
Afrikaans

ixulescu
12-10-2020, 03:31 AM
Latin :D

Ouistreham
12-17-2020, 11:26 AM
What of these peoples are the most liguistic aparted from its european version?
This question contains a wrong assumption.
Actually, colonial versions of European languages are generally more conservative than the original metropolitan version. The "principle of conservatism of peripheral areas" is well established in linguistics.
When people coming from various parts or their home country, speaking various related dialects, met overseas, they logically tend to agree upon communicating in the standard, literary, versions of those languages.

• Which is the most conservative Scandinavian language? Icelandic, originating from colonial old Norwegian. And the most innovative one? Danish: Copenhagen was back then the unndisputed main centre of Scandinavian cultures, but the Danes managed to introduce in their language lots of phonetical changes their neighbours often poorly can understand.
• In Western European Russia, there are (mainly) three highly diverging dialects (North, Central, South), but in all Siberian localities the language is nearly undistinguishable from to the Moscow standard.
• In the 18th Century, visitors from France in Canada were astonished that even in the most remote farming communities the peasants were speaking the Royal Court's French.
• Noah Webster, the father of American English, was well aware that it was potentially more conservative and dignified than London English (but as everyone know, at some point in the 20th Century the innovation centre moved from London UK to somewhere between NYC and LA).
• Why are South-American Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese so much easier to grasp that their counterparts in Europe? Well, I don't know, but I have a feeling this is because in Brazil or Mexico the languages remained closer to the old Academic standards while the metropolis Lisbon and Madrid changed much faster and developed weird phonologies.



Afrikaans
Yes. Afrikaans is the only known instance of an European language that officially evolved into a distinct one
But still, it's a simplified Dutch anyone with a basic knowledge of Dutch can easily understand, except for a few odd African and Asian words here and there.


Haitian kreyol from Metropolitan French for certain. I have it from some French acquaintances that they have needed the service of translators while being there just like any other foreigner. Although to be certain this separation began during the colonial times, since the "French" that formed the basis of kreyol wasn't the one of the Ile de France region, but rather, the Norman dialect that used to be the norm in the coastal region of that province before the revolution happened. During the Republic, all regional languages came under sustained and unrelenting attack and homogeneization with the one of the capital city, so much that today their speakers are all in the single thousands in all the provinces of the current French country. Spain and Britain have been more generous with their ethnic provincial languages in comparison, quite frankly.
Utterly stupid horseshit.

Tenma de Pegasus
12-17-2020, 07:39 PM
I know brazilian portuguese is largely derivated from medieval portuguese that was spoken in Northern Portugal around Oporto and mountains of Trás os Montes plus large amerindian accent in the Central-South of Brazil and african influence in some new words.

Token
12-17-2020, 08:34 PM
I know brazilian portuguese is largely derivated from medieval portuguese that was spoken in Northern Portugal around Oporto and mountains of Trás os Montes plus large amerindian accent in the Central-South of Brazil and african influence in some new words.

Tens alguma fonte para isso? Na verdade existem inúmeros meridionalismos fonéticos no português brasileiro que parecem indicar que a maioria dos colonos vieram do sul de Portugal:


Aparentemente, os colonos portugueses que para cá vieram procediam de todas as regiões da metrópole, notando-se uma provável predominância de portugueses do sul, dados os seguintes fenômenos fonéticos existentes no Português Brasileiro: (i) ocorrência absoluta do [s] predorsodental, típico do Sul português, e inexistência do [s] apicoalveolar, típico do Norte de Portugal; (ii) monotongação do ditongo [ey], como em primero, dito [ây] no Norte, como em primâyru; (iii) manutenção da distinção entre /p/ e /b/, que são pronúncias alternantes no Norte, ocorrendo tanto varrer como barrer.

Token
12-17-2020, 08:44 PM
On topic, Afrikaans is surely the least conservative out of these since it dropped grammatical genders and underwent a drastic morphological simplification. Brazilian Portuguese is fairly conservative but i don't know if it is more than American English.

Ouistreham
12-19-2020, 04:32 PM
On topic, Afrikaans is surely the least conservative out of these since it dropped grammatical genders and underwent a drastic morphological simplification.
Yes, Afrikaans is an exception.
I never saw any logical explanation for that anomaly.
In the 17th Century the Dutch were Europe's best educated people, with a literacy rate estimated at 25 et 30%. About twice as much as in Germany, France, England, at the same time. And Calvinist Boers were probably well above. They should have preserved their original culture more than any European people settling overseas.
It's a real mystery.

Andullero
12-19-2020, 05:03 PM
Utterly stupid horseshit.

Instead of acting butthurt, why don't you give us an explanation as to why you think Haitian kreyol doesn't diverge from Parisian French? Specially considering the fact that there weren't many metropolitans there to begin with (only Louisiana had less Frenchmen than the Haitian/Dominguan colony, this is well documented) and the majority of the few Frenchmen there were peripherals from the coasts (Normans, Bretons, etc.)

Ouistreham
12-19-2020, 06:51 PM
Instead of acting butthurt, why don't you give us an explanation as to why you think Haitian kreyol doesn't diverge from Parisian French? Specially considering the fact that there weren't many metropolitans there to begin with (only Louisiana had less Frenchmen than the Haitian/Dominguan colony, this is well documented) and the majority of the few Frenchmen there were peripherals from the coasts (Normans, Bretons, etc.)
So many stupid assumptions in so few words... Really impressive.
Hey, moron, don't you know that Creole languages are completely alien to European languages?
So-called "French" Creole in the West Indies was well established as soon as the first generation of African slaves being brought there. Very interestingly, a similar "French" Creole was reported at the same time at the other end of the world, on the Réunion and Mauritius islands, which tends to show that Creole languages were well rooted in West Africa before Niggers were exported to far away islands.
Similar story with the "English" Creole being spoken in Jamaica. Non-English, with an African syntax, and just as mutually inintelligible with English as Haitian (or Martinican) Creole is with French.

Now, please, tell me what's your point.
Oh, and just for my information, just tell me what is what you call "Parisian French". Just for a laugh. Thanks.